Inside Ten Candles: Eclipse | Series Wrap-Up and Q&A

Summary

Podcast Episode Summary: Inside Ten Candles: Eclipse | Series Wrap-Up and Q&A

Release Date: June 16, 2025
Podcast: Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry by Geek & Sundry
Current Season: Ten Candles: Eclipse

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1. Introduction and Welcome

Denise Pantoja opens the episode by welcoming listeners to the "Ten Candles: Eclipse" Q&A session. She introduces the co-hosts and participants, including head of production TJ Rotel, producer Denise Pantoja, fellow players Jake Bennett, and game master Ivan Van Norman.

Denise Pantoja [01:16]: "Hello there and welcome to the Ten Candles Eclipse Q and A. With me here, we have head of production and fellow producer TJ Rotel."

2. Overview of Ten Candles: Eclipse

Ivan Van Norman provides an introduction to "Ten Candles: Eclipse," a tabletop RPG series centered around tragic horror where all 40 players are doomed to perish by the end. The discussion highlights the game's mechanics and the unique challenge of portraying a narrative where survival is impossible.

Ivan Van Norman [04:13]: "10 Candles was one of the OG ones when like, so discovered Dread first. And as a mechanic, it was great. And then people started recommending 10 candles. And I picked that up and I loved it and I wanted to run it..."

3. Challenges in Running the Game with 40 Players

The hosts delve into the complexities of managing a game with such a large number of participants. Ivan shares his initial reservations about adapting "Ten Candles" from a one-shot to a serialized format with 40 players spanning 10 episodes.

Jake Bennett [06:28]: "The game's literally built to be a one-off thing to do. How the fuck are we gonna make this work for 40 people over 10 episodes?"

Denise Pantoja expresses her confidence in the team's ability to handle the challenge, emphasizing faith in their collective storytelling prowess.

Denise Pantoja [06:37]: "I think you have the Brinks in your book. Well, I also have them physically. Let's just wait till those cards come."

4. Storytelling and Emotional Impact

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the emotional depth and storytelling techniques employed in "Ten Candles: Eclipse." Ivan reflects on the process of developing the game's lore, particularly the incorporation of catastrophic events like the moon crashing into Earth.

Ivan Van Norman [07:34]: "And I read the book again that night... I wanted to run it, but I always had that issue of like, how do you make ten candles look good?"

The hosts share personal experiences about moments that deeply affected them, highlighting the series' ability to evoke strong emotions through collaborative storytelling.

Denise Pantoja [17:31]: "It was the very first time I had ever played anything like that... it was so freeing. It was amazing to experience."

5. Cast and Contributions

Ivan praises the contributions of various cast members, emphasizing the importance of having talented and committed players. He highlights specific players like Daryl, who brought depth to their characters, and acknowledges the challenges of NPC narrative integration.

Ivan Van Norman [16:53]: "The hardest death I had to narrate... probably Christina's was definitely the hardest."

Jake Bennett commends the storytelling, noting how individual contributions enriched the overall narrative.

Jake Bennett [29:09]: "You know, I love what. It's fun, like playing the game... it rips the raw emotion right out of you."

6. Future Projects and Announcements

In the latter part of the episode, Ivan announces upcoming projects, including a new series titled "We're Alive," which will take over the "Ten Candles" time slot on Twitch. He also mentions his plans to stream regularly on Twitch, exploring new world-building concepts and productivity streams.

Ivan Van Norman [63:23]: "We're Alive is on the way... First episode next Monday."

Denise and Jake also share their availability and platforms where listeners can connect with them, fostering community engagement.

7. Q&A Highlights

The episode features a vibrant Q&A session where listeners submit questions about the series, the game mechanics, and the emotional journeys experienced during the gameplay. Topics include:

• Brinks (Story Prompts): Ivan discusses the introduction and evolution of Brinks, pivotal moments that guided the story's direction.

  Jake Bennett [48:56]: "Can we turn the camera to see the couch?"

• Emotional Challenges: The hosts share the toughest moments they faced while narrating tragic events, emphasizing the personal impact of storytelling.

  Denise Pantoja [58:11]: "I wanted to die. Listen, it was beautiful for the story, but for me, I wanted to die."

• Dream Cast: They discuss dream teams they’d like to run the game with, highlighting their admiration for various storytellers and players in the RPG community.

  Jake Bennett [44:21]: "I love playing with you because you bring the character commitment."

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Denise Pantoja [28:11]: "We're here to talk about Ten Candles Eclipse. Let's start at the beginning."

• Ivan Van Norman [09:12]: "Let’s do it."

• Jake Bennett [22:25]: "And that's the magic of ten candles. And the collaborative storytelling element of it is..."

• Ivan Van Norman [62:24]: "So my life, you can live with my life."

Conclusion

The episode wraps up with heartfelt reflections on the collaborative storytelling experience, the deep emotional connections formed during gameplay, and enthusiastic announcements of future projects. The hosts express gratitude towards the community for their support and engagement, promising more immersive adventures ahead.

Ivan Van Norman [65:52]: "Dark Dice is available however you listen to podcasts."

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Final Thoughts:
"Inside Ten Candles: Eclipse | Series Wrap-Up and Q&A" offers a profound look into the production and emotional landscape of a serialized tragic horror RPG. Through candid discussions and listener engagement, the hosts provide invaluable insights into the complexities of large-scale storytelling, the dedication of the cast, and the enduring impact of collaborative narratives. This episode serves both as a reflective piece for existing fans and an inviting introduction for newcomers interested in the depths of tabletop RPG storytelling.

Transcript

[Ivan Van Norman]

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[Denise Pantoja]

I think you're on mute.

[TJ Rotel]

Workday starting to sound the same.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I think you're on mute.

[TJ Rotel]

Find something that sounds better for your career on LinkedIn. With LinkedIn job collections, you can browse curated collections by relevant industries and benefits like Flexpto or Hybrid Workplaces, so you.

[Jake Bennett]

Can find the right job for you.

[TJ Rotel]

Get [e-mail] jobs finding where you fit.

[Jake Bennett]

LinkedIn knows how.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Warning. The program you're about to listen to contains explicit language and descriptions of adult themes and graphic violence that some people may find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised. I can look at it, too.

[Denise Pantoja]

Hello there and welcome to the Ten Candles Eclipse Q and A. With me here, we have head of production and fellow producer TJ Rotel.

[Jake Bennett]

Hello.

[Denise Pantoja]

Also fellow player or victim?

[Jake Bennett]

Both.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

One of those lucky enough to die by the hand of Ivan Van Norman.

[Denise Pantoja]

Trying to slink away to my left is Ivan Terrmonger, master of nightmares. Van Norman.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I'm here.

[Jake Bennett]

You made it, buddy. You made it. Forty players later, you're still here.

[Ivan Van Norman]

God, I look so haggard by the.

[Jake Bennett]

It was perfect, though. I thought it was perfect.

[Denise Pantoja]

You were playing into it, right?

[Ivan Van Norman]

I think you were. You were. I think you actually, you're the one that made the comment tomorrow. I was like, you know, it's really insight for you to look like crap just like everybody else after the last 40 episodes.

[Denise Pantoja]

Did not say that.

[Jake Bennett]

The tie was a little looser.

[Ivan Van Norman]

The hair was a little crazier.

[Denise Pantoja]

I think the exact question though was, do you own hairspray?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Do you? No. And the answer is. The answer is no.

[Denise Pantoja]

So that was the first question. First question of the show, does Ivan own hairspray? Answer is no.

[Ivan Van Norman]

A flip is a really nice.

[Denise Pantoja]

He likes to go au naturel.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, it's much easier when I wake up and then I don't do my hair and then I go and do my work.

[Denise Pantoja]

It falls beautifully and it really just. If you've seen a bunch of the stuff that Ivan's done on the channel, he definitely tailors his look to each specific show and it works out really, really well. And I think this worked. Out for 10 candles eclipse. My name is Denise Pantoja. If you don't know me, I'm a producer. I prod 10 candles.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Also victims twice died.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, we got killed twice. Two times.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Drawn and quartered. Yeah, drawn.

[Denise Pantoja]

Spoiler alert.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Hey, if you're watching the Q and A, you probably watched all the episodes.

[Jake Bennett]

You mean you don't watch Q&As on movies that you haven't seen? I do that all the time.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah, every time.

[Ivan Van Norman]

By the way. Hi, Aki. I see you.

[Jake Bennett]

Yes, but hello to everyone in chat. Hello.

[Denise Pantoja]

Hi, Chat.

[Jake Bennett]

Hello.

[Denise Pantoja]

So why did you say it so creepily?

[Ivan Van Norman]

I see you. That's better. It's more creepy. So.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, great. So what are we here to do, Denise?

[Denise Pantoja]

We're here to talk about Ten Candles Eclipse. Let's start at the beginning. And this actually helps. You just mentioned twice we died twice. If you did not know or if you've only caught a few of the episodes we did. We ran a one shot that we ended up showing on International Tabletop Day. And it was myself, tj, Amy Dallin and Alquin Gersh run by this madman. And this was our first foray into ten Candles. So you did. Where did the game come from? So other than Steven Dewey. Thank you very much.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Stephen Dewey. Yes. From Calvary Games. I occasionally will just go to indie book publishers and just look at what they have and then just grab six or seven books and then walk away with them. You're so smart. And then go through it. So Ted Candles was one of the OG ones when like, so discovered Dread first. And as a mechanic, it was great. And then people started recommending 10 candles. And I picked that up and I loved it and I wanted to run it, but I always had that issue of like, how do you make ten candles look good? Because it's supposed to be in the darkness. It's supposed to be only illuminated by candlelight.

[Denise Pantoja]

Right.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And it's unlike Dread, which you can build a suspension mechanic and it can drop down, you can rebuild it again. Right. It's good for one offs, but you can build lots of stories. Ten Candles. Ultimately all characters die. So for me it was like, how do you do that as like a series? Or how do you do that as any more than just a show? And then we watched it a bunch on other channels, like Hyper, who were doing it as well too. And I was like, okay, well, that's fun. And I always wanted to play it, but never really had a chance to do it. And so, you know, when the opportunity to finally run. And I just was like, screw it. Let's do 10 candles. Stop thinking about it so much and just do it.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, I remember when you came in, we were talking about ittd.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I was such a poo poo head about it.

[Jake Bennett]

Well, that was even before. This is just for the ITTD version. You'd come in and we'd ask you like, well, what do you want to like, do you want to run a one shot for the. And you're like, I got this game I'm itching to try out. Oh, right, That's a tragic horror game. It's called Ten Candles. I remember we pulled some folks from the audience. We did like a 50, 50 split on, like, we got some people from the team that were really interested in playing it, and we knew some friends from outside that are hosts and such that wanted to play it. And we kind of got together for ittd and it was magic. I remember getting off the table being. I believe it was the first one to die, getting off the table, going over to Sean, who was staring at the monitor, and we both, like, looked at each other and we're like, this is a show, right? And instantly we just started coming up with like, okay, there's gonna be 40 players. We got all this stuff. And then that's when you came in and we're like, I don't know, guys.

[Ivan Van Norman]

This is.

[Jake Bennett]

The game's literally built to be a one off thing to do. How the fuck are we gonna make this work for 40 people over 10 episodes?

[Denise Pantoja]

Very interestingly, Ivan was like, I don't know if we can make it that interesting. And I'm like, hold on just a second. I have faith. I have faith in all of us. And we. I mean, shit, I don't know. What do you guys think? Did we make it interesting?

[Ivan Van Norman]

So it was the 10 episodes, but that was the. And I remember after having that conversation being like, oh, think about it. You know, think about it. And then going home and kind of thinking about it. And I read the book again that night. Like, I just read through the book again and kind of thought about it and was like, all right, well, if it's gonna be about people dying, then there needs to be a giant event that ties them all together, you know? And I think originally we were. The idea. As all ideas began, the idea originally began. It was a time travel. I think I originally pitched to you like a, hey, everything happened. But kind of like time stories.

[Jake Bennett]

Well, it was similar to like, Endgame.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And how they handled that right And Quantum Leap, it was just kinda one of those where we're gonna repeat the same every single time characters died. The next group would then be informed about how the first group went. But it was. I think the original pitch was like four players go into the breach 10 times to try to save some post apocalyptic event 12 monkey style. But spoiler alert, they inevitably die for every single run. And then we got into that. And I can't remember what initially nixed that whole idea, but it was definitely something that I think I remember thinking about it being just a little bit, little too much because it was if there was a success, if there was always a success mechanic, and 10 candles does everything it can to remove the success mechanic, then it just didn't feel like it was gonna have an arc all the way across it.

[Jake Bennett]

Well, it's funny cause like I remember you coming in and I remember that idea getting pitched. I think it was at a state and I got a call and you'd pitched me the idea and I was excited about it because I know you and I know what you're capable of and we've seen you kick all kinds of ass on our shows before. But I was a little nervous about it because it didn't feel like when we initially thought of it, I was thinking that Romero verse of we're just gonna drop players and the world and the shit's going on. But I was intrigued by the time travel thing. And I was like, getting through it and getting through it and getting through it. And then when I'd come back, you were like, I Nick's. The time travel thing. And I was like, okay, okay. And he's like, what I want to do is have the moon crash into the fucking Earth. And I was like, yeah, it works.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Let's do it.

[Jake Bennett]

It's cool, let's do it.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Well, however else do it. And then it's. And then I remember after we went through that, I sat and I was like, okay, well I know nothing about astrophysics, so let's.

[Denise Pantoja]

You faked it really well.

[Ivan Van Norman]

You really did. I also had a great phone call with one of my old buddies, muje Gay Cooper, aka Moo, aka Dr. Moo, who is a planetary protection engineer over at JPL. Oh, and I was on King of the Nerds with them back in the nerd days. But I had a lovely half an hour call from her where I basically said, hey, obviously this is never gonna happen, but if it could happen in a theoretical offense, how am I thinking here? And so I described that's what the tidal surges were and the earthquakes. Because the moon's now messing with Earth's gravitational field. And once it starts getting close enough to go into the ro. What was it? What did I learn the other day? The Roche limit. Once something enters the atmosphere and the gravitational forces between two objects are so strong that it has inevitable collapse to the point of where they start breaking up each other. And that was why, you know, once it started getting close, like the rock dust was just falling upon it because just Earth's gravity was just, like, pulling apart the moon and landing in episode nine or whatever it was, eight or nine, you know, that was. That was super fun.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, man. It was really awesome. It was really cool to see the story grow throughout the 10 episodes and get to play in that world because it all was.

[Ivan Van Norman]

It like. I think episode one was just like, okay, there's things under the ground. That was literally. I like this box, by the way. This box, by the way. Here's everyone else.

[Jake Bennett]

Just don't show the front.

[Denise Pantoja]

Just don't show the front of it. Yeah, these are all the.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yeah. Here is literally.

[Denise Pantoja]

I'm have to clean these up, but I'm going to do it right now.

[Ivan Van Norman]

This is everybody. Here's everybody's corpses. And they're ripped pieces.

[Denise Pantoja]

I saved everything.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I want to make a thing out of it. A little chateau box, little set deck.

[Jake Bennett]

Now we got a little set deck on the floor.

[Ivan Van Norman]

That's great.

[Denise Pantoja]

We'll leave it until the end.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. That was the cool thing about the whole moon bit is that all we knew was at some point the moon was gonna crash in. There was things under the ground. Cause it needed to be more than the moon. Like, the moon is great, but there needed to be more than the moon. There needed to be a them. That was what we started with on episode one. It was it. And by the time we were in episode 10, it was like, there's this whole lore.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, yeah. Like, the whole universe got built out. It was crazy.

[Ivan Van Norman]

The whole thing was.

[Jake Bennett]

I remember the day you came to tell me about the monsters.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

And I lost it.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

And like, every time I'd get like. Like, Ivan knows I love monsters, where Denise and I are big horror fans. Like, he'd come and be like, here's something to do with the monsters. And I'd be like, they just kept getting cooler and cooler and cooler as the world progressed. And I tried to save it as.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Long as I could to not reveal them. Oh, as soon as you reveal the monster, they no Longer become a monster, they become a threat. Yeah, right. You know, and a threat is fine, but as soon as our monsters were no longer monsters. So it's here in case.

[Jake Bennett]

Should we get.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Is Mujigay in chat? Maryhand says that Dr. Moo is here. Oh, Mujage.

[Jake Bennett]

Dr. Moo shoots on because space.

[Ivan Van Norman]

That's right. I know she's in because space, but I didn't know she was in the studio right now. I have to text her to make sure to say hi before she leaves.

[Jake Bennett]

Okay, go ahead and do that. While Ivan texts Dr. Moo, let's hit chat and start taking some questions for this Q and A.

[Denise Pantoja]

We've got some here already. So the them Brinks.

[Jake Bennett]

The them Brinks, as in the Brinks that they wrote? Well, I know I wrote one for episode 10, right, Ivan? That was me writing the monsters Brink. Right?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. For the last brink on the last episode.

[Jake Bennett]

Do you remember? Do you think it would be more fun to do these in chronological order?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Way more fun to do my chronolog.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah. Then let's have. You've got the Brinks in your book.

[Denise Pantoja]

Well, I also have them physically. Let's just wait till those cards come. We'll make sure we have everything, and then we can go to the next.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Okay, we're getting the Brinks together, and.

[Jake Bennett]

Then we'll do the Brinks from episode one, episode ten for them.

[Denise Pantoja]

Ooh. Can you recall maybe the biggest curveball? That one was thrown your.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yeah. Everyone, every episode did something that I was like, okay, what am I going to do now with this? But I would say the ones that were like. I mean, even episode one with Christina and having to deal with the whole. The whole Raider Village was just like, okay, how are we gonna. Okay, well, here we go. I don't know where this is gonna end. It's gonna be bad. But let's just. Let's just see it through to its natural and hopefully not incredibly offensive in conclusion. And then there was obviously the Xander baby incident. And I liked.

[Denise Pantoja]

Which was eclipsed. No pun intended. Pun intended.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, with the cat. But that's the thing is, like, I told Xander this, even after that episode, it's like, Xander giveth and then he taketh away. Cause he both made that problem for me, and then he solved that problem for me. Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

Solid point.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Two solid truths. That's all it was. But that one was big. I would say another, because I saw in Chat about Starchy as well, too. I would say another curve ball that kind of was like, oh, okay. Okay, here we go. Is when a truth came out to say that there was someone in, there was someone close. I think they said that there was someone close or there was someone inside who was. And I think they were trying to save themselves because they were like, is not hostile. You know, I remember the truth being like, not hostile. I'm like, all right, who can I put close to them that isn't hostile, but would also survived Probably a lot of nasty things. And that's how Starchy came into being. It's like I had to put somebody in a bunker somewhere and then have them not be hostile but not be friendly either.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah. Tough challenge.

[Ivan Van Norman]

So. Yeah. Cause I couldn't just hand them like, here, here's your five year supply of survival. Game's over, you know?

[Jake Bennett]

Yes. And I love Starchy. Starchy was such a. I remember when you were doing Starchy on the stage and I was at Village watching that. That was like afterwards I was like, man, Starchy's like one of those characters that's gonna be like, it's one of my favorite characters in the lore.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. Sometimes NPCs, they're awesome. And in a game like 10 Candles, it's really powerful to have them. But just like everything else, it's honestly easier to kill a player than it is an NPC in a game like Ten Candles because the NPC is objectively someone that you get attached to. Unless it's literally like a red shirt. But, you know, your inclination in playing these tragic horror games is to find something that you can save and then hold onto it as tight as you can. And when other players make choices, they tend to have a lot more agency. And so it is not so much your fault, you know? Yeah. Or your fault. I guess it's kind of a hard. A hard thing to say into it. So. Yeah, so that's the one thing about like. That's the one thing it's just about, you know. But yeah, but obviously Starchy and like, what did they call him at the end of the day? Mozart. They called him Mozart. The guy in the bunker who killed himself with overdosing painkillers in episode.

[Jake Bennett]

I don't remember that.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, Episode nine, he was listening to Mozart Buds. I think they called him Mozart in chat, which was fine. And yeah, so just the amount of people who need to be alive, they could be great. And there was even some people in the silo I remember as well too. But you know, they all got killed. I don't think we ever really had an episode in which an NPC was carried through them consistently, I don't think.

[Jake Bennett]

Since the ITTD version.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Right. Yes, because.

[Jake Bennett]

Which hit with like all the force of a mack drop.

[Denise Pantoja]

If you haven't seen it, I highly recommend it. Not.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, Montague. Montague.

[Denise Pantoja]

Montague.

[Ivan Van Norman]

That's right.

[Denise Pantoja]

Not just because we were in it and it was great, but it was just like. It was the very first time I had ever played anything like that. Even in my acting career I had ever been able to delve that deep into my emotions into like that. It was just. It was so freeing. It was amazing.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, for sure.

[Denise Pantoja]

It was amazing to experience. Thank you, Ed.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Well, I mean, that one was probably the most powerful NPC to play with as well too.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, man.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And that was the thing too, is it's really easy with kids to obviously default, always take care of the kid. Yeah. But I didn't want, like, that is something. That's something I really just. But that was something I just really wanted to protect for your game.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

You know, because trying to replicate that same emotional drive and feeling in another episode down the road, it just wouldn't have the same impact. So I was trying to find. That's the thing too about tragic is, you know, tragedy's universal. But just like Shakespeare, there is a certain amount of things that will always be tragic, you know, and you just have to find new ways to dress it up. So, you know. Yeah, I saw on there as well too the hardest death I had to narrate. Oh, the hardest and most satisfying one, I think was Vinces.

[Jake Bennett]

Ooh, dude, that was. That was ice cold.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Ice cold. That's the one to this day where I'm like, I don't know why. It just is, you know, because his. That was the tr. That was honestly probably the most malicious I've ever been. And a death. Because it's all he wanted. It's all. And the fact that he wanted what everyone was avoiding, which is what made it the most poetic and beautiful, is that all he wanted was to be wherever she was. Whether that was in the belly of a collector or dead. And it was just better. And I told Aki and I told a bunch of other people that the quiet little deaths are always my favorite over the like, you know, kind of drawn and quartered. Well, just tragic and visual deaths. Sure. You know, and for me it's always. It's really. You can have shock value. Like you can have someone get sucked out through a, you know, dinner size plate air hole. And you can have people who, like Aki who Just went, was that Nora? I think it was Nora. Yeah, it was Nora. Yeah. Because Trish broke her back, if I remember correctly. So I'm not saying these things like they're the real people.

[Jake Bennett]

Remember that time Trish broke their back?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

So we have another question from chat from Cordemore. Sorry, Pronouncing it correctly, were they just there to feed on the misery of. Of the Earth's inhabitants?

[Ivan Van Norman]

I don't know what they were. Originally, by episodes one and three, they were just there to scare the living crap out of the players. They eventually did evolve through brinks and other things. And we'll get to that with the Brinks. Yeah, I'm excited about that. And just to spoil this one, there was a brink in which it was described as, they feed off of our sorrow and misery. You know, so that was one brink that was handed. So that had to be incorporated and played into it. But, you know, there really was never the question of how they fed on it. We. You know, I think by the end of it, the. Again, kind of calling them the Collectors at this stage is the best name I have for them for what they eventually became.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

But, yeah, they absolutely were at first there to just remove as many people off of the planet as possible, and then eventually, they did start being drawn in by the misery and sorrow. The more. The more. I don't know if this ever. It probably never translated, and I apologize if it did, but. Or if it didn't. But the collectors were much more attracted to them when they were really feeling it. Like, feeling the misery.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. But if they were feeling inspired and hopeful, even towards episode nine, when you guys are just like, screw it. We're pushing through, you know, they completely ignore it. You know, so the more hope you had in your heart, the less like, the collectors were willing to take you. But as soon as you had sorrow and fear, by the time that brink dropped, by the time that brink dropped, everything past that point was basically, if you had sorrow and fear, they were gonna come right for you.

[Jake Bennett]

And that's the magic of ten candles. And the collaborative storytelling element of it is, you know, we all had an idea of what this story was gonna be. But those Brinks, man. Yeah, they sure do change the world.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yep, they do. Oh, and it's Pazuzu. What were those monoliths? Those monoliths are what we like to call the inciting incident.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

In general, though, the monoliths were a way to create a structure that players could not run away from. They could go away towards it. They could go away from it, but they could never get away from it.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, there's always gonna be another one.

[Ivan Van Norman]

There's always gonna be another one. That was why it was so important that they were equidistant from each other.

[Jake Bennett]

We found out towards the end that they were actually pinheading the globe.

[Ivan Van Norman]

They were actually pinheading the globe. Yeah. So yes, you have that look on your face. Is it one from ittd?

[Alcuin Gersh]

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[Daryl]

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[Denise Pantoja]

I don't think so, but take a look. No, because I got these cards for the show specifically.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, this one's mine.

[Denise Pantoja]

Okay, great.

[Jake Bennett]

Well this, this next question.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Why?

[Jake Bennett]

And sort through those. We can get to this question. I think we'll hit the brinks. I think we can all pretty much cover this one with a moment. Which moments made you tear up if they did? I mean, I know there were several moments throughout the series that got me pretty good. Did you have any moments that really got you emotionally? Like I know you're a rock when you're on camera. You're constant professional, but anything pushed you to that point where you thought you might break.

[Ivan Van Norman]

You know, ironically it wasn't until after episode six. Cause we shot two in a day. So we shot four of them in two days. And then when we picked it back up the next week and we shot another two and then three. So I would say by episode six I came home and was thinking about the game and the survivors and about. And occasionally we'll do this. I'll. I'll officially put myself in the shoes of the players and thinking about just what is important to me and what I would want to save and what I would. I was frankly thinking about what I would do if I was a player in this game and I just lost it. Like I just couldn't, I couldn't maintain it. And I remember just sitting there, you know, laying down before going to sleep and just like, just like all the emotions came out and it was just one of those. I literally was like, I think I just held on to all the survivors pain for a little too long. I think maybe I even did too. I remember and I just remember holding on to all of that and then I was just like, yeah, that's it. I had to let it all go. And it was just one of those.

[Jake Bennett]

Things where gotta bend the steam, you know.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. So it wasn't, I won't say it was one moment. I would say it was a collection of the moments that eventually just let it all. Let it all out.

[Jake Bennett]

Did you have a moment that got you specifically hard throughout the season?

[Denise Pantoja]

I mean, there were so many. There was a moment in every episode that did that for me. And then, of course, there was. There was our episode.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And yours was tough. The ITTD one was tough because that was so.

[Denise Pantoja]

Oh, I'm even. I'm talking about 10. But, yeah, that was.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

I have. I cried so much in the ITTD one. I think I've said this a couple of times before. I was in Inconsolable. I was so in the. In the story and in the moment, I just couldn't stop.

[Jake Bennett]

Which I think is a testament to, you know, the storytelling, that the level of storytelling that Ivan gets to pull out of people is that he captures us in this world and he keeps us there, and we live through that story together. And it really does. It rips the raw emotion right out of you.

[Denise Pantoja]

Absolutely.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

But more than. Not more than that. But as far as, like, this series went. Jake Bennett, you're a monster.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I was impressed. There was a lot of people I was super impressed with that I didn't. Like, you never know. You never know until you roll. And those people who, you know, I was like, let's give it a shot. Let's see how it goes and see what they bring to the table. And there was some people who just really fucking brought it to the table. And I love that, and I love discovering new people. Cause I always have this idea of, like, you need some constants in your games, especially when it comes to entertainment. Like, you need to have people who you know are gonna deliver. And then you need to have. You need to have a wild card. You need to always have a wild card.

[Jake Bennett]

Why?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Casting?

[Jake Bennett]

Well, it was really cool to get to pull in because, I mean, we see Jake and Daryl from asking the wisdom here in the building, and they're two of the funniest people I've ever met in my life. They're talented people. They're talented performers.

[Denise Pantoja]

They play crazy, wacky characters.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, they're crazy and zany. But, I mean, pulling those two into this very dark world, especially in RPG world, where they're not. Where they're not really used to doing that and being so pleasantly surprised by that choice, like, the two of them killed it. Yeah, I think to cite yours, too, like, Jake murdered me in episode 10. I lost it.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And I was particularly proud of Daryl and what he brought as far as his acting and his point and the choices that he made and how he did not mind leaning into that bad guy a little bit. He wasn't even a bad guy. He was just. He just was playing. He was just playing someone. We all know. We've all met that person. And he played it. And he played it so great. David Nett. I celebrate him for Taken. What did he say? The toxic masculinity ingredients and making a soup out of it. Like, between his virtues and vice that were dealt to him and his brink, he's like, well, I guess I get.

[Jake Bennett]

To play super off type.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, well, there's that too.

[Denise Pantoja]

It's fascinating. Cause you go in with an idea about your character and then.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, and Dan Casey. Sorry, real quick, Denise. Dan Casey. Damn it.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, yeah. Dan was another nice guy, man.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I mean, I knew he's good. I know he's a talented asshole, but, man, he got it. He got it, too. I've been wanting Dan Casey in the game for fucking ever. And I was just. That first cast between David, Christina, and Josephine. And that was just. There was no better way to kick that off.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I'm sorry. Please continue.

[Denise Pantoja]

That's okay. No, I mean, we were actually. It was a very tough job to put all this together. To put all 40 together and then to place them in a way that would accent each other well enough. Like, we were very specific about, you know, obviously scheduling, which. Oh, my gosh.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah. I mean, listen.

[Denise Pantoja]

Is a nightmare to begin with.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Sorry to interrupt, but Denise did all the scheduling.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah. Kudos to you for producing this show the way you did scheduling 40 actors.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I get so many text messages at like 8pm and she'd be like, okay, so what about this, this, and this for episode this? Because this person cannot do it on this day. Yeah, can you swing that? And I'm like. And sometimes I'd be that guy and be like, I don't like that setup. Denise, do a different one. But more often than not, it was weird. A lot of the casting really just came down to schedules.

[Jake Bennett]

Well, we did. We did basically a fantasy draft. We put everyone we knew on the board. Like, I mean, we had 60 some people on the board, and it was just. It was building teams of people. How do you. You know? Because we all know these people so well, and we all know.

[Ivan Van Norman]

We.

[Jake Bennett]

Most of them had played on the channel before, and it was like pulling down. Like, we know too many talented people. Like, if we were gonna. We could have done multiple seasons of this with so many talented people that we had. We know we wanted to keep this to the 10 episodes for this round and just deciding, like, sorting through the talent and then putting them together into.

[Denise Pantoja]

Pods, but also bringing new spaces in that we hadn't really worked with before or who haven't been in here in a while.

[Ivan Van Norman]

When you schedule a lot of people, it's like you have to. You can't, like, introduce yourself to. To a whole lot of new people.

[Denise Pantoja]

Right. You have to balance it out.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. And so. And there was a lot of people, like David Blue was on deck for we're alive thing, and we never even had a chance to get to him. So it was just really good to get him in a game.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

You know, and so there's. Yeah, there's a lot of people. I was just excited about Jason Carl.

[Jake Bennett]

Who get to see him play.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And he's. And he's obviously incredible. I mean, he knew exactly what he was doing. And I love that he. He leaned into everything and he played himself, but he was not him in that same way.

[Denise Pantoja]

Well, not only was it scheduling 40 different people, it was also scheduling 40 different people while D and D in the Castle was going on Comic Con, like all sorts of other conventions. Meanwhile, I'm trying to do the same with C6 because we were losing half of our cast. If we had kept to the live schedule. We're losing half of our cast. All of these really great opportunities that everybody had. So it was. It was a summer of scheduling. Let me just say.

[Jake Bennett]

Denise Pantoja, summer of scheduling.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Summer of scheduling.

[Denise Pantoja]

I don't want to do it again like that.

[Jake Bennett]

Speaking of Jason Carl. Jason Carl Ivan. What was it like GMing for Jason Carl coming from Gemini Lighting Lightning Jason?

[Ivan Van Norman]

I respect the hell out of that, man. Having been a player for him in LA by night before getting a chance to GM him. His capacity for putting together the tangled webs that he's weaving is always just very like. It's incredibly insightful to watch. Just the way that he manages to balance the world that is given to him with. With as much politics and as much strife as constantly is going down. And he's really good at leading his players but not taking away their agency. Like, I really respect that about him, is that he can really guide a game, but he is not a railroader by any chance. So it was one of those. Like, when you GM for other GMs, especially GMs, you respect. It is really hard to get past that bug of. I hope they like it. You know, I really Hope they like it. Oh, yeah. And so there's always a little bit of performance anxiety around GMing for other GMs because you just kind of want a little bit of a senpai notice me moment. But then you gotta get past that and you have to really honestly just treat them like a player and go into it and dive in. Cause you get too much of those brain demons going on.

[Jake Bennett]

Well, they're there to have fun too. You know what I mean?

[Ivan Van Norman]

That's the. And we've all been in that position where especially GMs, like, you know, Jason, Carl and Campbell. And Campbell was working on something at the moment and he wasn't able to do it. But we did reach out to Campbell as well too, about it. But we just don't get a lot of chance to play.

[Denise Pantoja]

Right.

[Ivan Van Norman]

They don't get a chance to play too much. And so sometimes it's just nice to give them an opportunity to play, you know.

[Denise Pantoja]

So Steven's in chat. Hi, Steven.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, hello, Stephen.

[Jake Bennett]

Mr. Dewey, creator of Ten Candles.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, that was another part too. We had the. I'm always a big advocate of, like, especially nowadays, it's so easy to go on live plays. And it's happening a lot now in the Wild West. It's like we're just all playing it, but not a lot of people are asking. Or at least when this stuff was starting and being new, it was just like, hey, maybe we should ask permission from game creators to see if they want their stuff. Yeah, exactly. Involved. I mean, granted, yes, they probably love their games being showcased online, but still, good to ask. Oh, yeah. So, you know, and then that gives.

[Denise Pantoja]

Them the opportunity to be involved, which.

[Jake Bennett]

Is what we love. Like, even when, like when we did We're Alive, we got Casey Whalen very involved. Very involved in the creative.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. Because he was a huge creative force.

[Jake Bennett]

Around making that work and partner for the Outbreak Undead System. Like, we, you know, we love to work with the creators at gns, because who knows the world better than the person who built it? So why not dig into that?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, and he's worked. Steven's worked very hard with Calvary Games to kind of like, he's made some really strong stances on how he wants to sell his games and how he wants to do his business, which I respect immensely. Like, being one. An independent game developer and book publisher is not easy. And we're certainly not buying. We're certainly not buying new cars on this shit, guys. You do it cause you love it. You don't do it because you you want to rack in the dough. And it is weird. It is a lot like, it's an interactive art form. You make something that people want to participate in, and when people participate in it, it's lovely. So all the more reason to give props to the continued work that continues to come into getting these games done. Horror is a tough duck.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yep.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Horror is a tough duck. Even though. And I've seen some horror games not done tastefully, and that's tough because you do want to not tell people, like, you don't want to squelch creativity, and you want to be able to say, hey, take a risk. But then you also need to acknowledge when the risk kind of took it a little too far.

[Denise Pantoja]

We were definitely cognizant of that. And we wanted to. We wanted everyone to be comfortable, but we also wanted. We didn't want to impose any regulations that would stifle creativity, but obviously there's general, healthy respect that we wanted to stay within those boundaries.

[Ivan Van Norman]

It's a big conversation right now. Consent and gaming is a huge conversation.

[Jake Bennett]

Absolutely.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And it's one of those things where it honestly boils down to everyone's guts things. Everyone's got stuff. And it's. I'm a big advocate of. Nothing is so important that it needs to be in the game. You know, there's no terrible thing that is so important that it has to be in the game. And as. And if you abide by that law, then you don't need to circumvent anyone's feelings because this thing needs to. To be in the game. You know what I mean? So just go into it. There's tons of terrible, wonderful things that you can wait into. You don't need to. You don't need to stand on a soapbox and say, this. This is important and has to be in the game if it's gonna make someone have a bad time.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, right. You know, do we have the Brinks?

[Denise Pantoja]

Are we that question sitting at top of our list?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, God, I don't know, girl.

[Denise Pantoja]

Oh, my gosh. What were you doing this whole time?

[Ivan Van Norman]

You're supposed to.

[Jake Bennett]

You can't talk and look at those cards and organize them.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Okay.

[Jake Bennett]

Chronologically.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Help me out. Okay, I have.

[Jake Bennett]

I mean, I remember mine.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yeah. Okay, cool. Oh, okay. Here's number one.

[Denise Pantoja]

Okay, well, while he's doing that, was there anyone who couldn't play you really wanted? We were actually pretty damned lucky in getting, like Ivan mentioned, we wanted Eric to be on the show. Eric Campbell, but he just couldn't make it work. With his schedule at the time.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

So that was a bummer because we really wanted him to be on. But.

[Jake Bennett]

I mean, off the top of my head, that's the one that I know we were pretty bummed about missing out on.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

Because we love Eric and he's such a talented gm, but he's also a really talented player. He's just a creative guy, and when he gets to storytelling, it's nice to have him in the room.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah. I'm trying to, like, because there were so many names that went through my head this summer that I'm like. And then there were some who couldn't make it, and then we ended up working it out in the scheduling. So I am a little unprepared to answer that question. I will say Eric.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, Eric. Eric's a good choice for that one. I mean, how we doing?

[Denise Pantoja]

I have a name. He's working on it. He's working on it. Do we have.

[Jake Bennett]

What do we got? Anything else we could see here? Oh, here we go.

[Denise Pantoja]

It's. Oh, and that was. That was from not always weak. It's. Pazuzu says if you could have a dream team of players to kill in. Ten candles.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, yeah, that's gonna be Ivan all day.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Let's see.

[Jake Bennett]

Let's save that one for.

[Denise Pantoja]

I mean, you want to run one someday too.

[Jake Bennett]

I do, but, man, are you talking.

[Denise Pantoja]

Like, historical and fictional and like, anybody?

[Jake Bennett]

I don't know. I mean, if I was gonna pick the ones for my game, I would. I mean, genuinely speaking. I don't just say this because I'm sitting next to you. I love playing with you. Like, we play in a lot of D and D games together, and you really bring the character commitment. I would also. Again, not just cuz we're on camera, but I'd love to play with Ivan because his storytelling ability. And again, I'd love to put him.

[Denise Pantoja]

In the hot seat. Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

Well, Tim Candles is a game of collaborative storytelling. It is like, would just think, like, who were the best of the best of the best storytellers. We know too many talented people. Like I said in the casting process, it was a. It was crazy how many people we knew. But like, in my home game for D and D, I play with my DMs. So, like, for me, like, I love Eric Campbell, but I know we'd reached out to Jake Michaels, who directed Relics and Rarities and Alive, but I would. I think I would put Jake in my game because I really like playing with him. Him. Alcuin's really fun to play with. But I mean, like, I get four. If I'm getting four people based on what I've based on this season, I'll keep them this season to keep it safe and simple. I'd pick you two, I'd pick Jake Bennett. And I think, I think just to get to do it with the two of them, I think I might go with Dylan.

[TJ Rotel]

With a Venmo debit card, you can Venmo more than just your friends. You can use your balance in so many ways. You can Venmo everything. Need gas? You can Venmo this. How about snacks? You can Venmo that. Your favorite band's merch. You can Venmo this. Or their next show. You can Venmo that. Visit Venmo Me debit to learn more. The Venmo MasterCard is issued by the Bancorp bank and a pursuant to license, my MasterCard International Inc. Card may be used everywhere. MasterCard is accepted. Venmo purchase restrictions apply.

[Denise Pantoja]

Get into your body's vitals with the Vitals app on Apple Watch. I wanna get inside. The Vitals app tracks key overnight metrics so you can spot changes in your health before you feel them. The Vitals app ON Apple Watch iPhone XS are later required. The Vitals app is for wellness purposes only and not for medical use. Oh.

[Jake Bennett]

Cause I'd love to see like, improvisationally speaking, those two are so dialed in. Oh, yeah, that, like, man, like, because. And we get to see that comedy improv on Astine Wisdom every week. But man, I'd love to see what the two of them side by side can do in a dark, dark world because they both did stellar jobs, individuals. But everybody, like, genuinely speaking, everybody, like, that's like a what's your favorite kid situation. Like, I'd play with anyone that was in this season. They'd be welcome at my table anytime. They're all crazy talented.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

Everybody brought such a fabulous, unique perspective. I mean, there were just so many different. And I guess that's the beauty of stories like this. Like, it's just so many different.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

Deborah Viewpoints.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, yeah. Deborah's like, that's. I dialed it into the season. I couldn't, man, I'll start reaching out to outside the season and have no chance of being able to populate that table. There's too many good people out there.

[Denise Pantoja]

We will have a cast of 20 for this game.

[Jake Bennett]

But what do you think, man, if you had to put a dream team together? You know, I covered the season. You already played with these People, if you had to pull anyone in the world.

[Denise Pantoja]

We kind of asked you. I mean.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, you asked the question literally at the very top. I think we pulled everyone who I would really love to play with. You know, there are. It's just. It's silly at this point because there's like the. Oh, you know, if scheduling was never an issue and we had a million dollars casting list, and then there's the, like, who do I just like playing with on a regular basis? I pulled in a couple of my old gaming buddies, Shinomozingo and Ariel Hartman. You know, those are people who I just used to play RPGs with all the time. Yeah. I was so proud of Ariel. And she was like. She told me later, she's like, her death was like. I didn't think I was actually going to die. I was just being stubborn. And then I was dead, and I was like, yeah, and you did great. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, we were. Satine. I mean, all the names you're talking about, like, Satine, Darren DePaul, TJ Storm. All these people are people who I would love to play with, that I have played with. I haven't played with TJ Storm yet. Obviously, Darren, we've only worked with on Sagas and Sundry, but I'd love to have him at the table.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, Darren's great.

[Ivan Van Norman]

These are all absolutely.

[Jake Bennett]

There's a billion awesome players, good choices.

[Ivan Van Norman]

So I think I got the Brinks figured out now. These might be accurate. There might be some that are like, Was five, Episode five versus Episode six.

[Denise Pantoja]

We will give you a little leeway.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Here, but based off my notes, I think this is the best order that I have for Brinks at the moment.

[Denise Pantoja]

This is just the Brinks for them.

[Ivan Van Norman]

This is just the Brinks for them.

[Denise Pantoja]

And I pulled out. I want to do something with everybody's Brinks so that y' all can see it at some point. But I don't think we're have enough time today, so we'll just do the them Brinks.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Okay.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

All right. So for the first brink, which I believe was given to me, and I'm not going to remember everybody's. Whoever they all handed to me.

[Denise Pantoja]

So Aki knows which one is there.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Aki knows which is going on. But I believe this one was F4 and F2 in our first table. It was. No, that was our second table.

[Denise Pantoja]

I'm trying to remember who first table was. Josephine, if it was to your right.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Okay. I think. I think this was. I think this was. I think this was no, it wasn't, Josephine. I feel like Dan gave this to me. Anyway, the brink was. I have seen them drain all compassion and empathy from all humanity. Yeesh. So we literally started with them draining compassion and empathy. So great.

[Jake Bennett]

Starting strong.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Starting strong. And then I believe the other one, I think this one, if I remember correctly, because I wrote it down in my notes as well, too. And it really played close into the second one, which was San Francisco with Ms. My brain's not just gonna hit all of it right now. But that brink was. I have seen them reach through solid objects.

[Denise Pantoja]

Oh.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Which is kind of where we started getting into the whole. Like, I interpreted that as. That's why we're doing the whole. You know. Then I decided, okay, they're burrowers. Sure. Cause we didn't even know. I didn't even know what they looked like in episode one. But by episode two, I was like, okay, well, they're burrowing and they're gonna start taking people through solid objects.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

Gross.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And so that's when this started becoming centipedal a little bit. I believe number three was, I have seen them feed by occupying a friend's body and forcing them to devour another and themselves. And I remember this one specifically being in the silo, because that was the moment in which I. That was the larva, you know, with the little tiny collectors, when they got into your mouth and then they animated you, and that's when they became kind of the zombies.

[Jake Bennett]

Well, I remember when you came. That was the moment when you came in to tell me one of the monsters or evolving moments, and I lost my mind.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

I got so excited. I was sitting over there on that couch, losing my mind. When you told me, I was shocked.

[Denise Pantoja]

Can we turn the camera to see the couch?

[Ivan Van Norman]

No, actually. So that one. The one that, as I've seen them. So that one was epic. Now that I'm going through it, that was episode five. Oh, yeah. So I think episode three, that be collectors. Yeah, There it is. There's episode three. Cause episode three was Eastern Europe. Episode four was Eastern Europe. No, the baby incident was episode five. Episode four. Episode three. There we go.

[Jake Bennett]

Yes.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yes. Three.

[Jake Bennett]

That's correct.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Which means. So that's episode four. And if that's episode three, and that's episode six. Six. And that's. Oh, no, no, that was a little later. Here it is. Okay, here. This is episode three. I have seen them break people's hearts and mind, which is kind of added into the whole, like, oh, you know, we're sucking the Life energy out of folks. So that's double down. That's two brinks that have basically said, oh, you know, that the awful parts that they're. That they are feeding off the awful parts of humanity that started percolating stuff in the brain.

[Jake Bennett]

So they're like living juicers. They're gonna take the rind, and they're gonna take the seeds, and they're gonna extract what they want out of it and pulp out the rest.

[Denise Pantoja]

I don't want to be juiced.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And then, I mean, you weren't.

[Jake Bennett]

You were horribly ripped apart.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. And then I think it literally got even farther. You can't believe how many brinks literally laid into this. One of them was, I've seen them feast on the fallen and hopeless. That was episode rough. That was Eastern Europe. Yeah. That was them with the caustic fog. So, you know, I've seen them feast on the fallen and the hopeless. And then it was the silo, which I've seen them feed by occupying a friend's body and forcing them to devour themselves because they weren't eating each other and the creatures weren't eating other people like they did in the ISS until this brink came out. And they basically laid that out, which is great. Cause now we have something other than collectors. We have little tiny collectors that force you to eat everybody. Oh, there's a Vince and a Cinnifora. Oh, cool. We already burned through all this time. Great. Episode six, which was perfect with Mr. Our DM for who was in that match. And he sang on the radio.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, yeah. Jackson.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Jackson Lansing. I'm sorry, buddy. But this was his Brink. And this was what I thought was perfect. And it says, I have seen them sing in tune with the monoliths. It was the most beautiful song I ever heard. Dozens have died to the melody. So this one was when they started listening their head back and singing. And that was lovely. And then this is when I started planting the seeds of what would eventually be the end game. And this one was actually the most powerful one that I read. And it led to what ended up being the lore of the world. The most I have seen them, and they are us. That was literally it. So when it's when. That moment when they split open one of the collectors and just all the condemned souls just, like, screaming outside of it, that was a direct result of this brink. They are us.

[Jake Bennett]

That was such a awful moment for me. Like Nightmare on Elm street when Freddy's shirt gets ripped open and all the souls are coming out of his chest. That's what I saw in the worm.

[Ivan Van Norman]

That's what I saw too gross right there. We were on the same wavelength for that. I was like, okay, this is.

[Jake Bennett]

We do that often.

[Ivan Van Norman]

This is flesh wall of condemned souls. Let's go.

[Denise Pantoja]

This is Vince's brink. You sick.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yep. Okay. That was Vince's brink. They are them and they are us.

[Jake Bennett]

I remember that.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Cause he did on the iss and it was perfect. So I have seen. Okay, here's another one. I have seen them go in the light inside of the monolith. Ooh, that was a brink that we wrote in there too. Which means I had to have probably told them about the light in the initial description, because otherwise they wouldn't have had the information to be able to put the light inside of the monolith. Which, again, that led to Robert's whole thing. Robert being able to go in and out. And I have seen them tear at each other and pull themselves apart trying to get to me in a high tree. And I think that was late enough in the game in which there wasn't enough humans. And the little ones were eating the big ones. And I think that was episode nine, though, right?

[Denise Pantoja]

The little ones are eating the big ones.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, wait, did I say that?

[Denise Pantoja]

Oh, you did.

[Ivan Van Norman]

I did. When the big ones were eating the little ones.

[Denise Pantoja]

I'm always for the underdog.

[Ivan Van Norman]

No, it's all good.

[Jake Bennett]

Even if they are malicious and ripping me apart. World ending monsters.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, they were eating each other. So, yeah, that was totally. Thank you. Thank you, Vince, for claiming what was rightfully yours. And then the last one, which I confirmed because I wrote it down, was. And this was again perfect for how the endgame came into it, because the Last4 From TJ, I have seen them herding, like, livestock survivors into the monoliths. Because it's time to make a choice. It's time to make a choice. And they had to choose. You had to choose.

[Jake Bennett]

And it was so cool to get to see that in the last episode, the. The procession form and pushing us towards them. And I was like. Like to get like, listen, it's one thing to have an idea for something in a show, but to get to see it one, happen in real time and two, to get to play through it, like, that was awesome. I was in that moment. I was so happy I hadn't died earlier. I was like, man, I want to see that happen.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. No, it was.

[Denise Pantoja]

When I got to see it, you.

[Jake Bennett]

Got to see some of it.

[Denise Pantoja]

My hair got to see it a little bit.

[Ivan Van Norman]

It was certainly like One of those, like, each one of these Brinks absolutely informed the story. And they're all beautiful gifts. Because, honestly, I need help sometimes coming up with this shit. And really, sometimes it just takes something as simple as they are us to really have it go. Like, oh, okay, okay, okay. Here we go. Here we go.

[Denise Pantoja]

That's a beautiful. That's. That's the beauty of RPGs. But this one in particular, where it is. It is like a big, you know, improv exercise. It's a big improvisation, right?

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah. Well, that's what Jake said when he. You know, when he got off set. Like, Jake and I texted that whole night for, like, hours after our game was over. Because it was. We were so moved by everything that happened at the table. Like, he and I gained a level of friendship at that table.

[Ivan Van Norman]

That's cool.

[Jake Bennett]

We were pretty close. But what occurred between the three of us at the end of that game was like.

[Denise Pantoja]

That was beautiful.

[Jake Bennett]

That will stay with me for the.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Rest of my life. No, those are why role playing games are so amazing. Because those are stories that you take with you forever. There will be things from all the games that I have played that I will always remember from forever, and they'll be one of their. Like, even. Even back to, you know, we're alive in Sagas of Sundry, there's just gonna be those moments where I'm never gonna forget them. And they're. They're just as good, if not better than all of the stories that we tell about our glory years growing up or, you know, memories that we form.

[Denise Pantoja]

So I think we've done something stunning with each different show. And, you know, it's such a great collaborative effort. But let's do a lightning round since.

[Jake Bennett]

We'Re about to run out of time. 10 minutes left.

[Ivan Van Norman]

10 minutes.

[Jake Bennett]

10 minutes now.

[Denise Pantoja]

I said we're about to run out of room. I meant time.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, Room in time space. Okay. So, yes, from Itspazuzu. Do you have a favorite episode?

[Ivan Van Norman]

I can't be particular to an episode. Cause they're all my children.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

Treat it like I treat the Lord of the Rings trilogy.

[Denise Pantoja]

It's all one movie about everything.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah, sorry, that's the lamest answer that we're sticking to.

[Jake Bennett]

All right, Aki, D. What was your.

[Denise Pantoja]

Favorite fulfilled moment, and why was it Jackson's song the Forge? Because it was beautiful.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. I think it was the first moment that really got fulfilled, if I remember. I mean, if it.

[Denise Pantoja]

No, you know what? Jasmine had an excellent one.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, Jasmine did have an excellent one. Yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

You Fucking sped that up. You were like, I don't even care if it's on top of it was beautiful.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, that's right. Yeah, we did. I incited that because the. Oh, I mean, again, another great story like that. That Whitney Jasmine arc was so powerful and so interesting. I was like, you keep this going. And that was one of my favorite. Like, in my mind, every. Sorry, I know we're on lightning round, but every single one of these final scenes is just like a. A portrait in my head. And that portrait of Whitney's character with the eyes and the little tiny little well shoot vent. And her just there knowing that her friend are right below. Good. Good times. Great episode.

[Denise Pantoja]

That was an excellent one. Toughest death you had to narrate in all 10 episodes.

[Jake Bennett]

I think we got that one. That was.

[Denise Pantoja]

Did we?

[Jake Bennett]

Well, your favorite one was Vince's.

[Denise Pantoja]

Okay.

[Ivan Van Norman]

So, yeah, the toughest death that I had to narrate in all 10 episodes was probably the first one. I think Christina's was definitely the hardest, which is kind of why. Which is kind. I think why. It was the only one in which I really gave to her.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And said, hey, I can do this or you can do it.

[Jake Bennett]

And it was brutal. Like. Cause you, like, you never. Like, when she said how she went out, I was like, oh, wow, Kudos to you.

[Denise Pantoja]

Congratulations to that fabulous role player. She just became a little.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Hey, congratulations. I know.

[Denise Pantoja]

Like two days ago.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

And we had.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And I was. I made it real clear with her when we were starting into it. I'm like, well, you. You know, girl, you're gonna sit down for like four hours. Like, that's that. I mean, you cool with that? Because pregnancy. She's great. Super trooper.

[Jake Bennett]

Super pro.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Super trooper.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yep.

[Jake Bennett]

What else we got? What drew you into the game in the first place?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yeah, the. Into the game just in 10 candles in the first place. Yeah, I'd probably just say 10 candles candles. Just because it's. As with many things, it was a highly celebrated game that wasn't getting a whole lot of attention. Horror is a tough boat, and it's really nice when you have a rule book that you can read in half an hour to go through it. And it is definitely a bit.

[Denise Pantoja]

So, you know, I know when it was brought up to us, I hadn't heard of it. And I was like, what? Fuck yeah. Okay, I'm down. Like, let's do this.

[Jake Bennett]

Oh, yeah. I mean, it's horror, which is great.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah.

[Jake Bennett]

But yeah, the concept itself was like, fuck, yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yeah.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Especially. Especially when you Have a narrative. A narrative tool that puts you on a timer. Yeah.

[Denise Pantoja]

Yes.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yeah. The narrative Allurophile.

[Jake Bennett]

Devin, can we go up on that a little bit?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Allurophile. What narrative in ten Candles is driven by the players as much as the storyteller? What twist did your players bring the overall series that surprised you the most? They all. I was always surprised by the dynamic between each one of the players when it would be in the like, oh, we need help, so we're gonna give truths to help us right now. And, you know, we're feeling pretty good. Let's hurt us a little bit, you know, So I was always.

[Denise Pantoja]

They kept it pretty balanced.

[Ivan Van Norman]

They kept it pretty balanced. But the ones that surprised me the most is definitely just one of those, like, it's. It's the ones where they were willing to go in deep and just lean into it. Lean into the tragedy.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, I love what. It's fun, like, playing the game. We've played twice now, and every time I try to hurt myself, first truth I get, I'm injuring myself, right?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yes, you did make it fun all the time. You were not.

[Denise Pantoja]

Pulling punches on yourself. Jake Fang, go away your monster.

[Ivan Van Norman]

So what truth broke each of you the most?

[Denise Pantoja]

Oh, funny you ask that, because I just told Jake Bennett to go away. The fucking cat, man.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Was it specifically. It's not pregnant?

[Denise Pantoja]

Yes. Because in that moment, he. He took my hope as well as Al quit's hope, and he did things, unspeakable things to it before he ripped it up, because mine, you know, when. When Alcuin had talked about the cat, I was like, oh, my God. That's like, the perfect opportunity because I'm not a people person. I love my cat, miss my cat. I don't create these relationships. When I find a meaningful relationship, I will find hope. And I was like, it's gonna be the. It's totally gonna be the cat. And I fucking wanted to die.

[Jake Bennett]

I was never so happy.

[Denise Pantoja]

I wanted to die.

[Jake Bennett]

Never so happy.

[Denise Pantoja]

Listen, it was beautiful for the story, but for me, I wanted to die.

[Ivan Van Norman]

That intent, that desire to want, that comfort was so transparent.

[Denise Pantoja]

Oh, I was. Yeah. I couldn't hide it.

[Ivan Van Norman]

It was. No offense, but it was wonderful taking that away from you.

[Jake Bennett]

It was such a. Such delicious story. But I think we need to start wrapping up a bit. Yes. So real quick. I'm teacher Otel. You can find me at Tjhotel across the Internets. Denise.

[Denise Pantoja]

Where can we find you, Denise Pantoja? Across the Internets. If you can't spell my last name.

[Jake Bennett]

I'M sorry, Ivan, please take us out.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Yes, my name is Ivan Van Norman. You can find me at the Hydralord. I'm sorry, Hydrolord on all the Twitter is. I'm starting to regularly stream on Twitch. That's fantastic. Yeah, so I'm actually gonna. On Thursdays from 12 until 4, I'm going to try to consistently stream on Twitch. I have a lineup of some interesting concepts to explore, so if you'd like to go check that out. One of them, Spoiler alert. One of them is a productivity stream in which I will make a separate Skype account. And for people who want to get started on the project but have never had the time, will or effort to get into it, we're gonna take that seed and we're gonna shove it into the ground and we're gonna pour some water on it and watch it sprout.

[Denise Pantoja]

So my life, you can live with my life.

[Jake Bennett]

Yeah, I'll be Skyping you soon then.

[Ivan Van Norman]

So just get those projects started. Like, we'll make a little productivity stream, do some world building. It'll be great.

[Jake Bennett]

And Ivan, I think you have one more surprise for us before we go.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Oh, yes, one more thing for all the people who have sent me out on Twitter who have constantly said, hey, what's going on with We're Alive? What are we doing with We're Alive? What's happening with We're Alive?

[Denise Pantoja]

What's happening with we're alive?

[Ivan Van Norman]

It's coming on Twitch, season one on Twitch. It's taking over ten candles time slot on Monday evenings. First episode next Monday.

[Jake Bennett]

That fast?

[Ivan Van Norman]

Skip.

[Jake Bennett]

We're Alive is on the way.

[Denise Pantoja]

Alquin's in chat.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Alkuin's in chat. Awesome. And Vince is in there as well too.

[Denise Pantoja]

Anjali Bahmani.

[Jake Bennett]

Josh Peters.

[Denise Pantoja]

Josh Petersdorf.

[Ivan Van Norman]

So many people.

[Jake Bennett]

Lots of great people. And just to give you a taste, if you're not sure what We're Alive is, why don't you go ahead and check this out. Thank you so much for watching. Thanks so much for supporting. We'll see you guys next time.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Thank you. Good night. The day is June 18, 2026. West St. Louis is rubble filled hell hole. This is probably as good as it's gonna get. We have quite an adventure ahead of us, so let's get right down to it, shall we? I'm about a lot more than money. All right, I start taking out bandages.

[Denise Pantoja]

And let's just drive this thing, okay?

[Ivan Van Norman]

You're coming with us, but you won't survive.

[Denise Pantoja]

It's not our respect. You need our trust.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Are you sure you want to go all the way out to Kansas City with just five people bullets? Explain to me his grisly demise.

[Denise Pantoja]

I see him pop his head up.

[Ivan Van Norman]

And I go right underneath with the gun. Oh my God. And it's probably going to go downhill from welcome to the ultimate social deduction game, Blood on the Clock Tower.

[Daryl]

The evil team must stalk the streets.

[Ivan Van Norman]

At night, hunting down members of the good team one by one.

[Daryl]

Meanwhile, the good team must outbin maneuver.

[Ivan Van Norman]

The evil team using their unique abilities. I'd like to kick things off by telling you all that I'm possibly the demon. Our players can mislead and manipulate others with absolute freedom. I didn't like hearing my name in.

[Jake Bennett]

The same sentence as demon. That was very upsetting for me.

[Ivan Van Norman]

Emily and I will be your storytellers, guiding you through every labyrinthian twist and turn.

[Daryl]

How are there so many evil players in this game?

[Jake Bennett]

What's happening?

[Ivan Van Norman]

With guests from no Rolls, Bard, the Pandemonium Institute, and Oxventure? You won't be able to stop listening. Go to realmspod.com clocktower to find out more.

[Jackson Lansing]

Greetings, adventurers. Today we're excited to introduce you to a new story, Dark Dice, a horror podcast that blurs the line between actual play and audio drama, where the story is determined by the roll of the dice. Six adventurers embark on a journey into the ruinous domain of the nameless God. They will never be the same again. One of the players is not what they seem after a doppelganger, a creature that can assume the form and voice of whatever it kills, infiltrates the team as the players are picked off and replaced one at a time. Can they figure out who the monster is before it's too late? Can you? Here's a quick example of what our show sounds like.

[H]

The shambler with the jar of liquid.

[Jackson Lansing]

Inside of him, Sorin Arkwright, let loose an arrow that cracked the glass passing through the spine of the creature. The shambler still managed to maintain its forward momentum, but stumbled as it eagerly tried to bite and swipe at Sorin, landing near his feet as Jeff Goldblum has now joined our cast. Dark Dice is available however you listen to podcasts.

[H]

American history is full of infamous tales that continue to captivate audiences decades or even hundreds of years after they happened. On the infamous America podcast, you'll hear the true stories of the Salem witch trials and the escape attempts from Alcatraz, of bank robbers like John Dillinger and Pretty Boy Floyd, of killers like Lizzie Borden and Charles Starkweather, of mysteries like The Black Dahlia and D.B. cooper and of events that inspired movies like Goodfellas, Killers of the Flower Moon, Zodiac, Eight Men out, and many more. I'm Chris Wimmer. Join me as we crisscross the country, from the Miami drug wars and Dixie Mafia in the south to mobsters in Chicago and New York, to arsonists, kidnappers and killers in California, to unsolved mysteries in the heartland and in remote corners of Alaska. Every episode features narrative writing and cinematic music, and there are hundreds of episodes available to binge. Find infamous America Wherever you get your podcasts.