Podcast Summary: Non-Fantasy Tropes with Jackson Lanzing, Eric Campbell, and Matt Colville | Roundtable

Podcast: Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry
Host: geekandsundry
Episode: Non-Fantasy Tropes Roundtable
Guests: Jackson Lanzing, Eric Campbell, Matt Colville
Date: March 9, 2026
Current Season Highlight: Ten Candles: Eclipse

Overview

This episode brings together acclaimed RPG designers and storytellers to discuss roleplaying games beyond the fantasy genre. Jackson Lanzing (comic writer and RPG designer), Eric Campbell (game master), and Matt Colville (author and YouTube educator) dive deep into how non-fantasy genre tropes, especially from science fiction, shape storytelling and player experience at the table. They explore how shifting away from traditional fantasy opens new avenues for creativity, challenge, and personal expression in RPGs, and reflect on their personal journeys, emotional attachments, and favorite system quirks.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Appeal and Limits of Classic Fantasy Settings

• Default Familiarity:
  • Players and GMs often “know” how fantasy settings work: the blacksmith, the tavern, the implied rules of “Fantasy Land.”

    “There's a term they use in criticism called Fantasy Land, which is the implied setting that all fantasy novels and games take place in...” –Matthew Colville [06:25]

• Limitations and Nostalgia:
  • Fantasy may feel limiting for longtime players or GMs familiar with the tropes.
  • Science fiction offers a sense of creative freedom not always found in “default fantasy.”

    “I always feel like I’ve read the story I want to tell.” –Brian Lucci [06:53]
    “It’s almost like you gotta be mindful of walking in the shadow of the typical when it comes to fantasy.” –Jackson Lanzing [07:51]

• Personal Attachment:

  “That would be like removing half of my body if I decided to step away from it ... it just feels more intimate.” –Jackson Lanzing [09:38]

Science Fiction: Infinite Canvas

• Genre Flexibility:
  • Sci-fi games (like Star Trek, Doctor Who) allow for more genre-blending: time travel, politics, even fantasy-within-sci-fi via holodecks or magic-like tech.

    “If I want a fantasy episode, I can go do that ... sci fi opens the door to doing everything.” –Jackson Lanzing [03:03]

• Mechanics Reflect Storytelling:
  • Star Trek’s episodic nature lends itself to adventures spanning mysteries, political intrigue, diplomacy, and more.
  • Sci-fi settings help break social and cultural limits inherent in medieval fantasy.

    “You can take all the social mores off … with sci fi I have this very ... world-building is less limited.” –Brian Lucci [31:52]

• Memorable Moment:

  “In fantasy, you start small and end big ... whereas in sci fi, you start determined, you end victorious.” –Jackson Lanzing [05:28]

Genre Hybrids and Unusual Settings

• The group reminisces about D&D’s Spelljammer setting, which mashed fantasy with planetary romance and space opera:

  “Spelljammer is Dungeons and Dragons in Space ... it just feels, like, so pulpy.” –Jackson Lanzing [13:04]

• Sci-fi and fantasy aren’t opposites; cross-genre experimentation (e.g., running “Game of Thrones” political arcs in Star Trek) can reinvigorate old tropes.

Personal RPG Journeys & Therapy Through Roleplay

• First Non-Fantasy RPGs:
  • Many started with D&D, then branched out; for example, Champions (a superhero system) taught intensive rules and math.

    “Champions is a game where you have to do calculus... if your Superman character is gonna fly across the board ...” –Matthew Colville [11:44]

• Roleplay as Therapy:
  • Characters often reflect the player’s hidden strengths, desires, or struggles.
  • RPGs provide space for self-exploration, identity, and growth.

    “The amount that this is illuminating my personality ... it's like therapy.” –Brian Lucci [26:01] “For a long time ... before I knew how to deal with that ... I’d have periods I couldn’t walk. When I started playing, I was always playing these hyper-capable [characters] ... it was seriously therapeutic.” –Brian Lucci [27:58]

Empathy and Identity: RPGs as Social Laboratories

• Empowerment & Empathy:

  • Players start with characters similar to themselves; eventually, many branch out, roleplaying wildly different personalities.

    “There is definitely a psychological component to the first characters you make ... eventually you start branching out into characters that are wildly different from you. And that is a great exercise, just as a human being.” –Matthew Colville [28:58]

  • Engaging with different character types fosters empathy and self-awareness.

    “That is the bedrock of empathy.” –Jackson Lanzing [29:30]

• Social Growth:

  • RPG tables provide rare, nonjudgmental spaces where people from different backgrounds (tribes, in Colville’s language) convene and learn about each other’s worldviews.

    “D&D was the way out of that for me ... I would intensely judge these people ... and then one of them would be invited to the D&D table and would be an amazing DM in a completely different way ... and obviously I was completely wrong about everything.” –Matthew Colville [26:34]

The Evolution of Fantasy

• Changing Fantasy Tropes:
  • Game of Thrones and similar works have brought a broader, more political, and multicultural flavor to fantasy, attracting a new generation.

    “All the people who are coming to fantasy through Game of Thrones and, man, there are a lot of them ... you’re gonna see a whole generation ... whose primary fantasy is not one that exists wholly on a swords and sorcery level. I’m looking forward to the fantasy that it births.” –Brian Lucci [30:46]

• Inspiration from Multiple Genres:
  • “Anything can be anything” in RPGs: no need for genre gatekeeping.

    “I think you can do anything in anything.” –Matthew Colville [09:22]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Sci-Fi's Reach:

  “Sci fi opens the door to doing everything.” –Jackson Lanzing [03:03]

• On Fantasy’s Senses:

  “I know what it smells like to cook meat. I know what it’s like to get tired ... but I don’t know what a lightsaber smells like.” –Matthew Colville [10:16]

• On RPGs and Self-Discovery:

  “The amount that this is illuminating my personality ... it’s like therapy.” –Brian Lucci [26:01]

• On Empathy:

  “That is the bedrock of empathy.” –Jackson Lanzing [29:30]

• On Genre Flexibility:

  “I think you can do anything in anything.” –Matthew Colville [09:22]

• On Social Growth:

  “D&D was the way out of that for me ... obviously I was completely wrong about everything.” –Matthew Colville [26:34]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [03:03] Jackson Lanzing on sci-fi’s infinite genre potential.
• [06:25] Matthew Colville on “Fantasy Land” and the comfort of genre conventions.
• [07:51] Jackson Lanzing on the shadow of the typical in fantasy.
• [09:38] Jackson Lanzing on fantasy’s intimacy compared to sci-fi’s scale.
• [10:16] Matt Colville on the sensory grounding of fantasy.
• [13:04] Jackson Lanzing explains Spelljammer.
• [26:01] Brian Lucci on RPGs as therapy.
• [28:58] Matt Colville on starting to play characters who are different from yourself.
• [29:30] Jackson Lanzing: “That is the bedrock of empathy.”
• [30:46] Brian Lucci on the Game of Thrones generation.
• [31:52] Brian Lucci on sci-fi’s worldbuilding strengths.

Final Reflections

• Genre is a tool, not a boundary: The group agrees that while genre influences tone and expectation, skilled GMs and players can tell any story in any setting—so long as they mind the "shadow of the typical" and dare to try something new.
• Non-fantasy RPGs are not just viable but vital: By stepping outside swords and sorcery, RPGs unlock new domains of creativity, address wider human experiences, and offer deeper therapeutic potential.
• RPGs foster empathy and resilience: The stories we tell shape who we are, encourage understanding, and help us heal.

For those seeking inspiration, validation, or simply a roadmap beyond fantasy dungeons: this episode is a must-listen and a heartfelt, humorous tribute to the endless possibilities of roleplaying games—regardless of genre.