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Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry
The Love of Legends and Lore w/ Will Stark & Omar Timsah | Quests N’ Answers
00:57:20
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- [00:02]
Omar Tipp
Lowes helps refresh your garden in time for Mother's Day.
- [00:05]
William Stark
Right now get five bags of one.
- [00:07]
Dan Casey
And a half cubic foot Scotts Naturescapes.
- [00:09]
William Stark
Mulch for just $10 plus select one and a half gallon annuals.
- [00:13]
Omar Tipp
Hanging baskets make the perfect gift now.
- [00:16]
N/A
Two for only $15.
- [00:18]
William Stark
The best garden starts with great deals.
- [00:21]
Omar Tipp
Lowes we help you save ballot through 5 7. Selection varies by location while supplies last.
- [00:27]
William Stark
Discount taken at time of purchase. This episode is brought to you by Chevy Silverado. When it's time for you to ditch.
- [00:35]
Omar Tipp
The blacktop and head off road, do.
- [00:37]
William Stark
It in a truck that says no to nothing. The Chevy Silverado Trail Boss get the rugged capability of its Z71 suspension and 2 inch factory lift plus impressive torque and towing capacity thanks to an available.
- [00:49]
Dan Casey
Duramax 3 liter turbo diesel engine.
- [00:52]
William Stark
Where other trucks call it quits, you'll just be getting started. Visit chevy.com to learn more.
- [01:04]
Dan Casey
Greetings adventurers and welcome back to Quests and Answers, the show where we meet all sorts of awesome people from around the gaming world. I'm Dan Casey and today joining me in the Conversation Dungeon, we have not one, but two very special guests. You may have heard their dulcet tone, spinning yarns about ancient demons, gruesome hags, mythical monsters, and all other manner of deep magic on the DND Legends and Lore podcast. Please welcome William Stark and Omar Tipp. William and Omar, thank you so much for joining me today.
- [01:32]
William Stark
Thank you for having us having us.
- [01:34]
Dan Casey
That's my absolute pleasure. I'm a big fan of the D and D Legends and Lore podcast. I'm a big Lore hound myself. So very excited to get into all of this with you. But before we get there, I want to go way back to the very beginning and take things back to when did you both first get into how did you get sucked into the world of TTRPGs?
- [01:53]
William Stark
I didn't actually get into tabletop RPGs until my early 20s when which would have been to age myself. Would have been around like 2011, 2012. It was right in the heart of 4th edition Dungeons and Dragons. And yeah, me and a couple buddies, we just decided in a conversation one day we wanted to give TTRPGS a shot, specifically D and D. And I ordered the the Monster Manual that day my buddy ordered the Player's Handbook. We got together and we just started playing and from there it just I never stopped.
- [02:25]
Dan Casey
Amazing. Did you start as player or did you start as dm?
- [02:28]
William Stark
I started as a player. I started as a player. I think after about 6 months to a year. I tried DMing for the first time. I was not very. I was not very good at it. I look back and I have memories and I cringe. But I. I improved greatly over time.
- [02:42]
Dan Casey
Anyone who's instantly good at DMing, I think might secretly be a witch of some sort.
- [02:47]
William Stark
Right?
- [02:47]
Dan Casey
Seriously, there has to be a learning curve.
- [02:50]
William Stark
Oh, yeah, yeah, there definitely is.
- [02:51]
Dan Casey
Yeah. Omar, how about you?
- [02:53]
Omar Tipp
So I started probably actually around the same time in college, maybe 2013ish. Actually started with Pathfinder, first edition.
- [03:02]
Dan Casey
Oh, nice.
- [03:03]
Omar Tipp
Then jumped over to Savage Worlds, tried a little bit of Shadowrunner. I kind of bounced across a bunch of different Systems. Or Shadowrun 5th Edition. Bounced across a bunch of different systems. Didn't actually land on D&D 5th edition until just a few years ago, actually. Interesting. Yeah. I've just kind of been all over and I started and am mostly a player. I am. I have attempted DMing. I leave it to the professionals, like Will. I'm not. I'm not equipped for it yet.
- [03:39]
Dan Casey
No, it's a unique skill set to have because you're both. You're both playing like you're playing with the players, but you also have to keep track of everything else happening at the same time in a way that I can definitely appreciate. It's. I. You can see the relaxation on a forever DM when they finally get to play for a change. It's just like such a weight off their shoulders.
- [03:59]
William Stark
Yeah, yeah. No, I do enjoy playing when I get the chance, of course.
- [04:03]
Dan Casey
Do you guys remember your earliest characters?
- [04:07]
William Stark
My first character was a half Elven Ranger. Again in the fourth edition rules set, he was a dual wielder. I remember he had a bastard sword in each hand. And this was previous to my exposure to A Song of Ice and Fire or Game of Thrones or anything like that. So I was struggling coming up with a name. As I do. I struggle with names. And my buddy who was reading a song, Ice and Fire, suggested the name Tyrion. And I was like, oh, that's such a cool name. Yeah, I'll name my guy Tyrion. He's not like a total, like, household name in the future that I'm going to regret name my first character after, but Tyrion Windrunner, a half Elven ranger. He also had a pet bear. And yeah, it was. It was a good time. It was fun, fun adventures.
- [04:51]
Dan Casey
I like that. It's a classic archetype. Because I feel like Rangers nowadays don't get enough shine. The pipeline from people that think, wow, Aragorn is cool as Hell to what the rule set became. It was definitely a challenge, especially I guess that's maybe more getting into the power gaming aspect of things, but still a very cool origin. Omar, what was your first character?
- [05:10]
Omar Tipp
My first character was a human paladin sword and board named Gareth. About as milquetoast as it gets. Ooh, yeah. And I just remember knowing absolutely nothing, having no idea what I was doing, kind of just being along for the ride with all the veteran players kind of holding my hand through it partially. Really glad that I stuck or I started with a paladin because of how broken they tend to be in pretty much any system that you play them in. So it was a very great first experience feeling that powerful, even though I had no idea what I was doing. And that as most games do. I think that campaign stuck around for maybe three or four sessions before people had conflicts and it fell apart and. But. But it was a fun first experience.
- [05:56]
Dan Casey
I mean, that's the true villain of any campaign is just agreeing to sit down for three to four hours together on a recurring basis. Can definitely appreciate that. Do you know, William, you mentioned naming characters is something that you struggle with. Do you have any like, tools or like pre gen tables you put in place to help overcome that? Or like, what's your advice to someone who maybe struggles with that as well?
- [06:23]
William Stark
I would say that I'm never happy with random generators when it comes to names. I'm just never pleased with it. I think that's probably why I have such a hard time. I'm very picky about names. One of the things I like to do is if I have a character who say a cleric or a paladin, it doesn't really matter what they are. But if I can attach a theme to a character, whether the theme is as simple as a color or an idea, and then I will mess around with Google Translate. I will find words that are connected to the meaning of the theme and I'll make plays off those words and after a painstaking amount of time will hone in on something that I think is perfect. That's usually my first approach. If that doesn't work, then I will start pouring through really obscure fantasy, literature or fiction that I know no one else will connect to and I'll start trying to pluck names out of there.
- [07:21]
Dan Casey
Go on. Goodreads. Sort by Lowest rated.
- [07:23]
William Stark
Yeah, there you go.
- [07:25]
Dan Casey
When you folks are making a new character, do you find that you have either tropes or patterns that you fall into? Like you can tell a lot of your Characters have this particular trait for me, Definitely.
- [07:37]
William Stark
Yes. Especially over this last year, as I've made probably more characters this last year than I have in a long time. I apparently, apparently have this fascination with the. With a fallen knight or lost night or banished night theme. And I. I can take almost any class and turn it into this archetype. And I found I was doing it with warlocks, I was doing it with paladins, I was doing it with fighters, I was doing it with everything. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, I have a running theme here. Or all my characters are these knights who also have some sort of tie to an elemental power or dark power, and they're in some way fallen. And I'm like, I gotta break out of my bubble here.
- [08:17]
Dan Casey
I need a knight who's doing just fine.
- [08:19]
William Stark
Yeah.
- [08:20]
Dan Casey
Chivalric oath with no issue. Just very. A lot of filial piety. Omar, how about you?
- [08:28]
Omar Tipp
So the two tropes that often find themselves, or I guess the two aspects that I end up almost without effort pairing with all of my characters, no matter what campaign I play, I am either the shield of the party, some sort of protector, guardian. And sometimes that jumps into the roleplay, sometimes it doesn't. But I'm either the guardian of the party or I'm the charismatic face of the party. And oftentimes I'm the paladin. That's both. Or. Or another type of character, something to that effect. So even finding a situation in which I'm only one of those things is a miracle, let alone neither. I very rarely play spellcasters, unfortunately, because usually I end up building characters based on what the party needs. I usually end up doing my character creation last and kind of going from there. And obviously, usually people into picking spellcasters and whatnot, and there's a Marshall hole there. And so.
- [09:25]
Dan Casey
No, I definitely feel you. I'm the same way. I definitely am always looking to fill whatever gap we need because I want the rest of the. I want everyone be as excited about playing as I am, so whatever's going to keep them invested. But I played in a campaign recently. We did a show, and it was very freeing because the dm, I was falling into this trap in the DMA Vor. Paul was like, well, you don't need to just be a. We don't need a fighter. You guys don't need a healer. You can just be three glass cannons. And I was like, yeah, I guess we can. That sounds very dangerous for us. But we did it. And it was a very Fun experiment. Pushing myself outside my comfort zone. But you know, it's. When it, when push comes to shove or left to my own devices, I'm definitely sort of okay, what. What does the rest of the team need? Yeah. And I just for. I was looking back and I tend to make a lot of characters that are just very acrobatic dwarves because I just like the, I like the idea of just like I always thought about that in Lord of the Rings that, you know, in the movies was like, you know, Gimli getting tossed and being just so embarrassed by it. What if there was a dwarf who really enjoyed that and did it a lot? So I just, I just like the idea of the stout person just flipping through the air. So I'm curious, William, do you also. You, someone also fills what the party needs or do you have a clear idea of what you want to play when you go into a new campaign?
- [10:50]
William Stark
It's a little bit of both. What I, what I usually do without fail is I will make two, maybe three, but usually two characters. And I know if my, my first choice doesn't quite fit, I make. I ahead of time make my second choice a totally different archetype that will almost definitely fit if the first one fails. That's usually how I go about it. Like I, I just recently joined a fourth edition campaign. It's gonna be like a mini campaign. Yes. I still play 4e. I love 4e. I love 5e too. I love all, all the editions of DND. But I'm a big 4e Stan. But I think I went into it thinking I was going to run a dragonborn cleric named Hyperion. And in, in 4e, all the different classes fill a particular role. So that role's quote unquote leader, which is a healer, buffer class. But somebody else who's new to the game wanted to run a leader. So I had a backup, a defender. Paladin Aladdin, fallen banished knight who serves the Winter Fae. That whole deal. And he's ready to go. So that's, that's usually how I do it.
- [11:54]
Dan Casey
He's just waiting for his ch. He's fallen and he can get up at any time.
- [11:59]
William Stark
Yes, exactly.
- [12:01]
Dan Casey
Now this, this will perhaps be a good segue into something else I want to talk about. But when you folks are sitting out at the table to play in a campaign, are you someone who tends to take a lot of notes or do you just kind of fly by the seat of your pants and hope that you will retain it in your short to long term memory?
- [12:20]
William Stark
I Do not take notes. I. I always want to be someone who does, and there are times when. When I mean to, but I find that trying to take notes while things are happening actually distracts me from what's happening. And then I'm like, wait, what happened? So, luckily, I've been pretty able to rely on my own memory, mostly because I'm. I'm pretty invested, like, as. As a forever dm when I'm a player. Like, I'm. I'm all attention because, like, I'm locked in. So it. It's been fine for. For so far.
- [12:50]
Omar Tipp
I would say I echo that almost completely. I usually I will force myself to take some type of notes if there isn't anyone else at the table doing it. But more often than not, there is one person who elects themselves as the note taker because they. They enjoy doing that. And it's like, cool. That's a responsibility off my plate because I probably wasn't going to do a good job at it anyway. But I like Will. I am very, like, when I'm at the table, I'm very invested in what's going on. And to sit there and try to take copious notes on something to then sort of reference my own wiki later usually ends up drawing me out of what I'm trying to experience in the first place.
- [13:31]
Dan Casey
No, I can. I can 1000% appreciate that. I really, at the same time, also appreciate those people that elect themselves the group scribe because that helps me reinvest myself. When it's maybe been a couple weeks since our last session and I really do not remember where we left off. It's just nice to have. I think it's nice to have both. But I agree that when I'm at the table, I prefer to be in the moment and locked in just because otherwise there's so many things vying for your attention that can distract you. Why add one more thing to the pile there?
- [14:05]
William Stark
Yeah. Yeah. On the flip side, as a dungeon master, I love when I have a player who's taking notes because more often than not, the others aren't. And there have just been countless times where that one player has kind of saved the session and kept it on the rails because they remembered, you know, why they're invested in what they're trying to do and reminded everybody else.
- [14:25]
Dan Casey
So, yeah, it's. I feel like we need to just make our group, like, take turns taking notes just so everyone can share that burden.
- [14:32]
William Stark
But not a bad idea.
- [14:34]
Dan Casey
Well, we'll see what the notes wind up looking like and the lore becomes very twisted indeed. Well, I mean, perfect.
- [14:40]
Omar Tipp
You could always threaten them with either rotating note take or rotating DM and see what they think.
- [14:45]
Dan Casey
Oh, yeah, we're trying the rotating DM thing after. It's more like we'll see who's. Whoever's going to DM the next campaign. We always try to give the previous one a little bit of a break.
- [14:55]
William Stark
Yeah, absolutely.
- [14:56]
Dan Casey
But going from talking about taking copious notes to things to take notes about. Let's talk about your podcast, gentlemen. D and D Legends and Lore. It's a fantastic show.
- [15:06]
Omar Tipp
Thank you, thank you.
- [15:07]
Dan Casey
And I really appreciate the very cinematic style that you imbue into it. So before, for those who don't know, can you tell us a little bit about the podcast and sort of the. The genesis of it? How did this podcast come about?
- [15:21]
William Stark
So D and D Legends and Lore is a podcast where Omar and I dive deep into a particular subject of D and D, whether it be like hags, a demon, lord, elves, whatever it be. And we pore across every bit of lore that was ever written for that particular topic, from original D and D all the way through now, and try and put together a comprehensive yet immersive. I don't want to say documentary, that's maybe not the right word, but presentation on the thing. And I think one of the things that sets us apart from some other lore shows out there is we. We really emphasis the immersion, whether it's through the music and the images, but also I try and either find a canonical story that I can bring to life and maybe fluff up a little bit with some flowery prose, but keep it as close to. To quote unquote, canon as I can, because canon is a mess in D and D to kind of highlight like the, the. The fascinating stories and takes and things that you can get inspired by that exist in the game. Yeah, I don't know, Omar. I don't know if you want to add anything to that.
- [16:40]
Omar Tipp
No, I mean that, that. That more or less is the gist of it taking. Getting as complete of a picture on the informative side while presenting it in a compelling, in a compellingly narrative way is more or less kind of our goal with every episode.
- [16:56]
Dan Casey
Yeah, well, I highly encourage our viewers and listeners to check it out because it is definitely super immersive right from the get go. I'm curious, how do you hone in on which particular topics is it just what fascinates you the most? Is it something you feel is maybe underserved in terms of explanation by the larger community. You know, hags for example, I thought was felt very timely. They were. It's a There's a very prominent hag in Baldur's Gate. Three people are playing Curse of Strahd. There's some hags you may run into. Spoiler alert. But I'm just curious, what's your selection process like?
- [17:32]
N/A
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- [19:08]
Dan Casey
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- [19:52]
Omar Tipp
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- [19:53]
Dan Casey
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- [20:49]
William Stark
So for, for me I've, I've been playing the game for a long time. I have a pretty good, you know, bead on what's, what's fascinating to the general community more so than other things. And I also also have a bit of a cheat code. I I used to be a co host of another podcast that that was successful to a certain degree and we have have a huge back catalog. It was more conversational podcast and I love to peruse through like what were our top, you know, best performing episodes and I can just see Hags was in our top 20 and, and which surprised me the first time I noticed that. And so it's easy for me to peruse through there. And then obviously as the, the, the core writer of of the two of us, I very much have to follow my muse. If I'm not feeling a topic, I've learned to just not do it. I can hold it for another day because if I try and force it, it's not going to be as good as if I do something that I'm feeling in that moment.
- [21:47]
Dan Casey
How do you keep yourself diligent and focused as a writer? Are there any things that you need to do? You're someone who needs to do the conditions need to be perfect for you to sit down and write.
- [21:55]
William Stark
I am. I am the princess and the pea of, of writing, for sure. Like, I need absolute isolation. No one bug me. Headphones on. I need very particular, particular kinds of music. No, no. Singing has to be instrumental all the way through, and it does help if it's on theme. So, you know, I'm not gonna listen to synth wave while I'm writing about goblins. It's just not gonna work for me. But as for staying motivated, I mean, I'm a nerd, man. I love stories, I love fiction, I love fantasy. So like, even stuff that I know, you know, through and through and I've talked about a couple times, I don't mind revisiting because I love this stuff. You're not going to find anyone who loves dragons and goblins more than me.
- [22:38]
Dan Casey
Well, have you two always been like, real lore hounds? Like, really invested in the, the world building in, like, the deeper aspects of fictional worlds? What was your, what would been your, like, your earliest obsessions?
- [22:51]
William Stark
Do you, do you want to go first on this one, Omar? I feel like I'm hogging the mic over here.
- [22:54]
Omar Tipp
No, by all means, go ahead. I. I need to think about this one.
- [22:58]
William Stark
To answer your question, yeah, I think I've always been a lore and a world building hound, for sure. I, I was a kid with a. And, you know, I wanted to know, you know, why elven society was the way it was in Lord of the Rings, why the dwarves were the way they are. You know, I'm. I'm one of the people who knows about ERU iluvatar and how the pantheon of Lord of the Rings works. And I love that. I love diving deep on that. And, and so Lord of the Rings was an early one for me. Obviously the hobbit dragonlance is a big one for me. I started reading those books when I was like seven. And those were some of the first books to make me cry. Just from. From different storylines with the characters, Harry Potter and all that. There is a. A writer named Dennis L. McKiernan that not a lot of people know about anymore. But he was doing a lot of his writing in the 70s and 80s, and his fiction is really akin to Lord of the Rings in its, in its feel and its themes, which for me as a child, it still felt very fresh because this was all very new to me. But if anyone out there is a fan of Lord of the Rings, I could not Recommend Dennis L. McKiernan's work more. He actually started out as A writer who approached the Tolkien estate and wanted to continue writing within the world. And he had all these different story premises, but they rejected his premises. So then he turned those into his own world. So it's by design similar to Lord of the Rings, but that was another world that I got super, super into.
- [24:29]
Omar Tipp
In terms of starting point. Kind of similar, right? Lord of the Rings, Star wars, especially some of the now no longer canon expanded universe stuff. And the Furies of Calderon by Jim Butcher. That series is one of my favorite series in general. When the lore is good enough that you're able to almost transport yourself into that world, get that feeling that you have that. That is almost like you're living and breathing in that world. I'm trying to replicate that feeling every day because it is such a wonderful. Not that I. I love my life. I love being here in this place right now, but if I imagine a lot of people, if they could choose to live in a fantastical world with magic and. And nights and whatnot, I. Most people minus, you know, all of the potential lack of medical care and whatnot, most people would probably choose to live in a fantastical world like that. So any in terms of. In terms of getting really into lore, that didn't happen until the last few years, obviously. Again, it kind of as I've been reading, reading more in particular with like Furious of Calderon and Dresden Files and number of other books, a lot of Jim Butcher, but it wasn't something that was with me in the beginning. It was. It was kind of like this spark underneath that was again seeing Lord of the Rings and the original Star wars as a kid and like, oh, this is really cool. And then that flame kind of got nurtured as I got older.
- [26:01]
Dan Casey
No, I can definitely appreciate that. I especially resonate with just chasing that feeling of wanting to get immersed in this world when a fictional universe sinks its hooks into you in a way where you're just like, I simply have to know more or I will perish. That's how I felt when I first booted Up Final Fantasy 7 back in the day. That's how I felt reading the Red Wall books as a kid. And that's how I felt recently with things like Scott Lynch's Gentleman Bastards, Lies of Locke, Lamora. I just loved that universe. And also even RF Kwong's Poppy War Trilogy. It sort of. And also Warhammer 40K painting those minis as a kid and Mordheim. I'm just like, what is this? Who are these weird little dudes? And what is going on why is this world so upsetting? I have to know what's going. What's this forever war all about?
- [26:52]
William Stark
Yeah, absolutely.
- [26:53]
Dan Casey
Now, spending so much time thinking about the lore of D and D in particular for this, for this podcast, do you find yourself drawn to particular settings or are you more homebrew folks? At the end of the day, you like to take bits and pieces here and there to create something that's more of a communal setting with you and your table.
- [27:13]
William Stark
So I'm definitely a homebrew guy, which I know might sound surprising considering we do like canonical lore primarily on the show. And I think one of the things I love about all the various worlds that, you know, I explore, whether it's D and D or another fiction, is just the inspiration I can pull. And that's kind of what I want our show to do. I know that most tables out there aren't running Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms like by the book, but I want to show people that there is some amazing lore out there across these 50 years from some incredible writers and you can, you know, choose and pull whatever you want and apply it to your world. I'm going back to 4th edition on this one because the 4th edition 9th year veil setting is mind blowingly good, even if it does fly in the face of everything that came before it, which is why a lot of people find it very upsetting. But that's what's cool about D. D is like you can choose to use what you want and not. Not what you don't. But yeah, I think that answers your question. I feel like I might.
- [28:20]
Dan Casey
Yeah, no, it definitely does. Omar, how about you?
- [28:23]
Omar Tipp
Again, I hate to sound super repetitive, but effectively, what Will said, it's. I'm a great guest. No, I very much overall am of the opinion that a lot of the time people end up getting more invested obviously with the stuff that they create. Right. They have that sort of personal agency and that sort of personal attachment to something. So a lot of the time it tends to be more. Compelling is the wrong word, simply because a lot of the official stuff is also incredibly well written and incredibly in depth. Having that sort of personal attachment, especially if it's. If utilizing tools or utilizing other experiences where you can almost build the setting together, like with your players being able to kind of work collaboratively in that respect, I feel like that usually ends up resulting in a truly profound experience at the table for everyone. I don't know if other people are of the same opinion and obviously old school DMs may not be in terms of like, it's me versus them kind of thing. But I feel like the game in and of itself is at its best when everyone at the table is working collaboratively to tell a story. And whether that story is heavily entrenched in something that's already established, and then you're sort of making your own branching timeline or path to go explore something completely different, or whether you're simply picking bits and pieces out of it and making your own thing, or going something different, going with something entirely original. At the end of the day, if everyone is kind of on the same page and, and really living and breathing that world, I feel like no matter what you're doing, it's going to be awesome.
- [30:13]
Dan Casey
I 1000% agree with you. The thing that really I've always loved about Dungeons and Dragons and tabletop role playing games in general is that sense of communal storytelling. It's really unlike anything else that I've experienced. Like, I think the closest I've come in terms of like a video game, for example, is maybe an MMORPG like World of Warcraft, where you're, you're sort of crafting this narrative together and it's, it's just like, you know, it's like campfire stories writ large, but then there's all of these other bells and whistles to make different things possible. Collective imagination in a way that I feel like a lot of people don't really stop to participate in. And I'm always thrilled when people sit down to the table or show that new people show an interest in this because you can see people that maybe feel daunted by all of the rule sets. And I need, I need how many dice, like they're shaped like what? And when they finally sit down and experience it, it's really just, you know, kind of a choose your own adventure story that we're reading together and telling something to tell a cool story. You know, I think that's even possible within that the DM versus player mindset. It's just, it might be a more adversarial story. But hey, what's a story without conflict? So, sure, I can, I definitely resonate with, with that. I want to go back to some of the, the canon lore that you're. That you discuss in the podcast. What have you found so far or either in current episodes you've produced or future episodes you're working on is the densest lore or like the hardest to crack in terms of how do you distill that down into something that is communicable and narrative.
- [31:52]
William Stark
So hardest to crack in terms of just like how much there is. I think it has to be elves. Elves is going to. When we do our elves episode, it might be a two parter because it just depends on how like, deep I want to go. Or we want to go specifically with Forgotten Realms because there's just so much elf lore that is so specific to that setting. How much do I want to include? How much do I want to talk about elves generally? So that one is daunting to me right now. As for kind of on the other end of that, it's not. It's not so much volume. It's reconciling the continuity. It's almost anything that is completely broken by 4th edition or broken by 5th edition because it came from 4th edition. I think right now, just because I just recently did the script. The subject of the Raven Queen, which is a very popular concept and has been since her inception in 4th edition, trying to approach that in a way that stays immersive is difficult because there was the fourth Edition Raven Queen and then fifth Edition is just this totally other thing with completely different lore. It's not connected in any way, shape or form. And trying to reconcile those two things is almost impossible. It's like, how do I tell the story of this entity and of this lore without like having to break that fourth wall and be like, okay, so that's that Raven Queen. Now let's talk about this Raven Queen. And I think I found a nice happy medium, but those ones are always tough for me to crack.
- [33:25]
Dan Casey
Yeah, yeah, I can I. With shifting. Shifting lore as additions change. I have to imagine that's particularly frustrating, especially if you're more excited about a particular version of it. I mean, that talking about, you know, we. We on the nerdist side of things on our network, we cover a lot of things like Star wars and Omar, as you mentioned, the Star Wars Expanded Universe, now they're Star wars legends. They're not canon until they suddenly are because they appear in the background. So it's always a. It's always a guessing game as to what you should be highlighting. Yeah, I can imagine that's particular, especially with something as prominent in current D and D lore culture as the Raven Queen. So excited to see how you thread that needle. Omar, has there been any lore for you that's been sort of like, wow, reading this makes my head hurt.
- [34:16]
Omar Tipp
Honestly. It was actually one of our first episodes. The Corellon and Lolth stuff that we had to go through earlier. Just all of the. I'M in love with Corellon. No, I love Corellon more. No, it's just kind of like this whole weird love triangle quadrangle thing. And also the, the, you know, also there's this huge conflict and also I've tricked you and you've killed, you know, you've attempted to kill your own father. And just the, all of like the, the. And this twist and that twist and this twist. It just. I would say that that was probably like if we're talking about something in specifically that I was just like, okay, cool. Awesome. More general will it already touched on it. It's, it's very much kind of weaving through and navigating the differences in continuity between different editions. Especially when most people were introduced to D and D. I feel like, and please correct me if I'm wrong, most people were introduced to D and D through 5th edition. So that recency. Most people are going to have their, their, their, their mind, their, their frame of reference focused on 5th edition and trying to bring in previous lore that might contradict that. It's just, it's trying to find a way to navigate while making it coherent and narratively compelling. And. But it's a fun problem to have, so to speak, especially when it all comes together at the end.
- [35:52]
Dan Casey
Yes, I can imagine. Annoying at first, but satisfying when all is said and done. And yeah, your fifth edition is definitely the biggest driver of new D and D players. I think it also had sort of the benefit of being in at least the modern era of D and D. The longest running edition, the longest time between editions. There's things with something like a decade. Yeah. So they definitely had the benefit of that. And then just everyone getting really interested in it in particular in the last few years having a new resurgence of players and interest. So hey, whatever edition people want to play, come on in. It's super fun.
- [36:29]
William Stark
It is.
- [36:30]
Dan Casey
Yeah. I started playing with the weird old AD and D box set back in the day that I made my dad buy. It was very confusing. I, I still, my head still hurts thinking about fake out compared to armor class. So, you know, it's. It was a simpler time and I know that'll upset some people in the comments, but hey, I'm sorry. I was a child. What do you want from me? I do word stuff and make them ups, not math. So I want to chat a little bit more about some of the lore. Do you have a favorite weird or terrifying piece of D and D lore? Like a favorite factoid or something that stood out to you? Maybe not like, oh, you know this whole story or maybe it is a whole story just like something, you know, for my. What I'm thinking of is like Aboleths being creatures that existed before gods and passing on perfect copies of their memories to all their offspring. Like some Bene Gesserit nightmare creatures.
- [37:23]
William Stark
Yeah. To kind of add on to that, I. And I think I'm correct in this that they are particularly afraid of. I want to say it's mind flayers because according to their memory, mind flayers never existed. So where did this empire in the past come from? Like it doesn't compute with their perfect memory. So that, that, that is a good one there with the Aboleth. That's tough for me. There is a horrifying ritual dedicated to the demon lord of fungus, Zuckmoy, and it is spelled in great detail in a Dragon magazine. I don't remember which number, but I believe that the. The ritual is called the. I think it's called the Cradle of Filth or something like that. Or the. The Grave of Filth and hell. Yeah, it is. It is truly horrifying. Like it is legit horrible level stuff to read through. I remember I did an episode of my old show a long time ago on Zuckmoy and I. I read through the details like step by step process of basically turning these victims into fungal monstrosities. So yeah, if anyone wants to just get, you know, queezed out and engrossed out and scared, go find Zuckmoy's. I believe it's called the Cradle or Grave of Filth Ritual. It is spelled out in great detail. It's horrible. We will talk about on the show at some point when we do that because it's too horrifying to not talk about.
- [38:52]
Dan Casey
Yeah, I mean like I'm a sucker for anything with Mike and IDS and all of the weird like fungal stuff makes instantly makes me think of that one episode of Hannibal on NBC. So definitely worth checking out if you are strong of intestinal fortitude for our listeners out there. If you have a fun bit of lore to share, please let us know in the comments. I'm always learning to. I'm always looking to learn more weird and horrifying things about the game we love. So I can just drop that on players and DMs alike at the worst possible moment. Well, speaking of DMS, I also want to talk a bit about your approach to running games. I know you mentioned that, William. You tend to run a fair amount of games, Omar. You run. You run fewer. But what is your, what's your prep for a session? Like what is there any things you do in particular or tips that you would give to people if they want to maybe spice up their, their home game or things that you find particularly helpful in that regard?
- [39:50]
William Stark
When it comes to like a single session, the main thing I do is I, I write an outline of the different story beats I want to hit in that session. Obviously things aren't on a railroad, so like we might not hit them all, but just a general guideline of what are the major touchstones I want to hit on this in this next session, right? And then I will start fleshing out each, each of these different touchstones and then start bridging the gaps and whatnot. Another thing I do is I leave what I call a blank space between each of these touchstones where this is like, allow the players to do whatever the hell they want here. Let the adventure breathe. Don't just push them forward to the next goal post. So I, I create like these, these little islands that I, that I want the players to get through or get to, but once we get out in the water, I do let them splash around for a bit. And if they go too far afield and I, and, and I'm really not ready to go that way, I will find a way to bring them back. But that's, that's definitely something I do for every session I prep.
- [40:58]
Dan Casey
Nice. Nice. Now, Omar, you're someone like me who DMS a lot less frequently is it was. When you do what, is there anything special you do to prep for a session like that?
- [41:09]
Omar Tipp
So Will's take on the outline is gold. Absolutely. Having some sort of structure to the, to the session that you want to run, even if that structure falls apart later with player actions, just having a good starting point at the very least will relieve some of the tension that you have because you at least have that sort of, that jumping off point. I am one contrasting to Will, because I'm so inexperienced with running games or I've done it so few times, I do tend to lean more on those tools like random generators, etc. At the very least to kind of get some ideas or to pull very last minute. I didn't think they were going to ask that. Let me just grab a name really quickly or, or whatever. Or. Oh, they decided to break into the village chief's hut instead of helping him, you know, resolve the matter that they had. It's like, okay, well, plot point, plot point. And just real quick, oh, there's a ruby in there. What's. You know what, what's the ruby? Oh, he stole it from a hag for some reason and there's like this whole so having at least having the tools set aside to where if your players are kind of not going off the rails, but if they if they want to go in a different direction than you were initially planning for them to go, having the tools for less experienced DMs to be able to kind of either right the ship or kind of steer into the skid and move towards the new direction as I won't say flawlessly, but as painlessly as possible while still kind of lending itself to the experience. I think is really helpful.
- [42:51]
E
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- [44:57]
Dan Casey
No, I, I, I definitely appreciate that. I think it's ultimately in service of, you know, both the outline and even things like random generators. They're all in service of reducing friction for the experience to make it not. And I don't mean in terms of removing conflict. I mean just in terms of making a smoother storytelling experience for everyone. Because nothing feels worse than having to stop the action or bring things to a screeching halt where you're like, hold on, I have to look this up for 5 to 25 minutes, depending on what appendix it's buried in. If there's a particular rule or something like that, or if they do something that you're like, oh, like you mentioned, I thought you guys had moral fiber. You're breaking into his house. Let me figure out what that looks like really quick. Are there any, you know, you mentioned, William, that you are someone who enjoys homebrew for the two of you. Are there any homebrew rules that you really enjoy using in your games or ones you've encountered in the world? You're like, oh, that's pretty cool. I'd like to try that sometime.
- [45:53]
William Stark
One of the first ones that stands out to me is I like, like the, the changing of the, of the critical hit rules. So a lot of times at my table, I like to roll. If you make a critical hit, you do max damage, and then you get to roll your, you know, your weapon die or whatever else one time on top of it. That way, there's no critical hit. That's a dud. There's nothing worse than getting a crit, and you roll two ones, and you're just like, I did six damage or five or three or whatever. And that's. That sucks. You go from way up here to way down here real fast. So, you know, again, that's a four. That's an old fourth edition rule that I ripped off. Another rule that I've taken from another system called Tales of the Valiant is called Doom. And it is a resource that you give to a boss monster of some sort or a monster that you want to, you know, punch a little bit above its weight for story reasons or whatever. And essentially, the way it works is you tell your players at the beginning of an encounter with this creature that you could flavor how you want. You could be up front and just say, this monster has doom and it has three levels of doom that it can use, or you can be like, there is a strange and dark aura about this creature. And just Being in its presence is supernaturally giving you a quiver of dread like in your heart or something like that. And essentially it. You can use this Doom almost like inspiration for a character. You can use it on a re roll. You can. Whether that's a save or. Or an attack roll. You can use it. You could if you wanted to use it in. In place of like a legendary resistance. Although I have mixed feelings about legendary resistance. But it has its place. So I wouldn't just completely. I'll get rid of it. You can use it to make a critical hit of a player into a regular attack. Basically you can use Doom as a resource to intensify a fight. Make a fight that is. Would otherwise not be deadly. Be truly deadly. Those are the two that jump out to be.
- [48:06]
Omar Tipp
It's not from D and D, but it is from another system that I love to death. Savage World and the Benny system that's in place in Savage Worlds. Effectively every player starts with two bennies. Those bennies. Savage Worlds is very much surrounded around like casinos and gambling and stuff like that. So there's bennies. You use your cards for initiative, like the actual. Like a deck of cards for initiative etc, but won't get into that. But the Benny system, every player starts with two. And effectively what you can do with those bennies, they work very similar to inspiration. In D and D you start with two at the beginning of a session. You can use them to re roll or to add to your rolls if you need to. The other thing that you can do is if you are. If you take a fatal hit, you can burn a Benny permanently. So you'll start with one fewer but you won't die. You'll instead be incapacitated. So the system lends itself also on top of that, the Benny system is sort of built into where it rewards good gameplay. Just like with. With Inspiration can based on the DM where obviously good role playing etc. Or something really cool can be awarded Benny by the the GM or the dm. It does lend itself to a more epic fan. Like players end up being a lot more survivable and a lot more grandiose in their actions. Obviously. D and D Physical Edition is also very epic and grandiose. Like it's not. I won't say it's difficult. Like it's not difficult, but like it it the players especially as you get to higher levels it becomes just harder to kill them.
- [49:46]
William Stark
Yeah.
- [49:46]
Omar Tipp
Without a doubt.
- [49:47]
William Stark
Or challenge them even.
- [49:48]
Omar Tipp
Yeah. Seriously. I. I really enjoy the Benny system from. From Savage Worlds that's very cool.
- [49:54]
Dan Casey
That's very cool. I always, I always appreciate also plucking in elements from other systems and sprinkling them in where they may. Makes sense.
- [50:01]
William Stark
So that's very cool. Real quick, I found the Dragon magazine. The house I was talking about, It's Dragon magazine 337. There's a whole article Demonic Demon Demon Namakana Vic Vil on Zuckmoy. And in it there is excruciating detail on a horrible ritual called the Final Feast, in which of the victims are placed within Zuckmoy's cradle. So that's where I was getting cradle from. Okay, I'm not gonna go into details. If you want the details, go there. It's horrifying.
- [50:30]
Dan Casey
All right, I will. I'm. That's. I'm going to check that out as soon as we finish recording today. I can't wait. As we wrap things up, I want to. We always like to leave our audience with some recommendations for cool things that they can go out and play. So I want to start by asking you gentlemen, what is one of your favorite TTRPGs that you think people are sleeping on or you wish more people would play?
- [50:51]
William Stark
That one's easy for me. I'm a big, big, big fan of Dungeon Crawl classics, which is a game designed to be the way that old school Grognards remembered original D and D being. And that game is weird and it, it's full of random chance, which kind of enhances the whole experience. Essentially everyone, including the. The DM or the judge, really has no idea what they're in for when they sit down at the table because things are going to go sideways fast and everyone at the table has tools to deal with that. And I just love this game so much for how refreshing and off the wall it can feel compared to traditional D and D and how exciting it is for everyone at the table to discover who their character is, where their character is going to go, where the story is going to go. It's got some incredible modules which I have here. It's just a really exciting way to play D and D. You start with level 0 characters, you start with 4, and you don't know who's gonna get out alive. And whoever does get out alive, you then decide what class they're gonna take based on whatever stats you ended up rolling at the beginning. And there is this kind of you get what you get and you, you make it work feeling to it that is so refreshing compared to D, D and lends itself to some really interesting Storytelling. I can't recommend DCC enough so that, that would be my, my high recommend. Try out Dungeon Crawl Classics.
- [52:21]
Dan Casey
Awesome. Awesome. I feel like there's been an uptick in really well designed, kind of like OSR games of just like hitting that old school vibe in a way. So I'm absolutely going to check this game out. Omar, what is your recommendation for a TTRPG people might be sleeping on?
- [52:36]
Omar Tipp
Okay, well, I just talked about it like 2, 3 minutes ago maybe depending on things, but I love Savage Worlds to death. It is the system I am probably the next most familiar with. Without a doubt. It is a class class LIS system and utilizes everything but the D20. It is, I feel like one of the, one of the easier systems to jump into, especially if you're a beginner and, and you aren't starting.
- [53:09]
Dan Casey
D&D.
- [53:09]
Omar Tipp
5Th edition is very straightforward and is also a great system to start with for people 100%. So if you would like to try a new system with maybe new mechanics, but isn't necessarily overly complicated, Savage Worlds is a great choice. It's also very modular. I have been in full Star wars campaigns in there. We've messed with the, the sort of deck of card system to sort of emulate the more flashy lightsaber duels from the prequel trilogy. It's just, it is a very, very easy to understand system and I, I can't recommend it enough. Also, if anyone can make Shadowrun 5th Edition work in a way that is not clunky, I salute you. It is a system that I don't recommend to people, even though I love the setting to no end and I desperately want to play any and everything cyberpunk. But the number, the level of crunch in that system is too much for me.
- [54:09]
Dan Casey
Yeah, it's definitely pretty crunchy. So your appetite may vary, but fantastic recommendations across the board. All right, next question for you gentlemen. It's game night. You can bring any game you want. People will play it regardless of how complex the rules may be. What are you bringing and why?
- [54:26]
William Stark
I'll let Omar go first on this one.
- [54:28]
Omar Tipp
I already, I do have my answer easily. It is letters from Whitechapel100. You are basically, you are in a team. It can be as, as little as two people to as many as I believe five or six. One person is playing Jack the Ripper when he's going through his whole killing spree and everyone else is on a team as the Scotland Yard detective. And it is a, a game in which one of the types of games where the Killer's movement is obscured. The player doesn't know where he's moving. You're trying to find clues, trying to catch him before he makes it to his hideout, and you're trying to catch him before he completes all of the murders. It is so much fun when I can get people to play it. My wife refuses to play it now because of how complicated and time consuming it is. But when I can convince people to play it, it is absolutely a game that I play every game night.
- [55:22]
William Stark
So I have in my hands right here my favorite board game in the world. And you guys can't control me. I'm gonna try and put it on screen. It's called Summoner wars and it is essentially a deck building war game. And I would liken it to a mixture of chess or Stratego meets maybe Magic the Gathering, honestly, because you do build up resources for summoning stuff onto the board. And essentially, though, there is movement and damage counters and all this other stuff. And there are something like 12 different factions, each with their own mechanics. And you set up on two sides of the board. The game can be 1v1 or 2v2 or even 1v2, depending on how you want to set it up. And the goal is to kill the other side, Summoner, so that they can stop summoning units onto the board. And your average game runs about 30 to 45 minutes. And you could customize decks. And I have every expansion there is now. This is the first edition. They don't print it anymore. They did print a second edition rule set. It's very similar, but I think a little bit more streamlined and simplified. I've heard good things about it, but I can't speak on second edition. I can only speak on first edition. This game is incredible. My favorite game of all time, board game of all time, Summoner Wars. Not to be confused with the app called Summoner's War.
- [56:48]
Dan Casey
Otherwise, you're after a very different experience.
- [56:51]
William Stark
A very different experience. Yeah.
- [56:53]
Dan Casey
Wow.
- [56:53]
William Stark
I'm gonna put this back highly of this.
- [56:56]
Dan Casey
Yeah, I guess I'll pay 5.99 for more gems. Amazing suggestions. Gentlemen, gentlemen, thank you both again for joining us today. I really appreciate you spending the time. Where can people find you and find D and D Legends and Lore on the World Wide Web.
- [57:10]
William Stark
So you can find DD Legends and Lore on YouTube at the channel D and D Legends and Lore. Or conversely, you can find it anywhere that you can find your podcast, whether it be Spotify, Apple Podcasts. What do I use? Podcast Addict. That's my app of choice. But yeah, we're, we're on both platforms.
- [57:28]
Dan Casey
Gentlemen, thank you again. I really appreciate you spending the time. And thank you again to everyone who's been listening. You can find question answers right here on Geek and Sundry each and every week on YouTube or wherever fine podcasts are served each and every Wednesday. But for now, tell us, what games are you playing this week? What are you most excited to introduce to your table, and what's your favorite piece of DnD legends or lore? Let us know in the comments below and we'll see you folks next time. Bye Bye.
- [58:00]
E
Have you ever heard about the 19th century French actress with so many lovers that they formed a lovers union? Or what about the aboriginal Australian bandit who faked going into labor just to escape the police, which she did escape from them. It was a great plan. How about the French queen who murdered her rival with poison gloves? I'm Anne Foster, host to the feminist women's history comedy podcast Vulgar History. Every week I share the saga of a woman from history whose story you probably didn't already know and you will never forget after you hear it. Sometimes we re examine well known people like Cleopatra or Pocahontas, sharing the truth behind their legends. Sometimes we look at the scandalous women you'll never find in a history textbook. Listen to Vulgar History wherever you get podcasts. And if you're curious, the people I was talking about before the Australian woman is named Marianne Bug and the French actress was named Rochelle no less. Name just Rochelle. And the queen who poisoned her rival is Catherine de Medici. I have episodes about all of them.
- [58:59]
William Stark
On our podcast Good Bad Billionaire. We explain how the world's billionaires made all their money.
- [59:05]
E
Pop stars and tech titans, founders and filmmakers, inventors and investors. We cover them all.
- [59:11]
William Stark
And for the first time time, we're talking about a video game designer. Yep, we're talking about Markus Persson, the Swedish coding king who programmed the world's most successful game, Minecraft, all by himself. He made a billion. But is he good, bad, or just another billionaire?
- [59:25]
E
Find out on Good Bad Billionaire.
- [59:27]
William Stark
Listen on the BBC app or wherever.
- [59:28]
Dan Casey
You get your podcasts.
- [59:32]
William Stark
Can you actually change your personality if you want to? How does peer pressure work and why is it so powerful? Should you ever really trust your gut when you make a big decision? These are just a few of the topics we've recently covered on my podcast, Something youg Should Know. I'm the host, Mike Carruthers, and each episode of Something youg Should Know covers multiple topics that are likely relevant to you. You'll discover things you can use in your life today, right now. Like how to have a great conversation, how to be more courageous, the anatomy of the perfect apology, and much, much more. To date, there are over 1000 episodes of something youg Should Know. And we've gotten over 4,000, mostly five star reviews. I invite you to check out something you should know. Look for the bright yellow light bulb on the blue background. Something you should know. Wherever you listen to podcasts.