The Rule of Cool w/ Ify Nwadiwe | Quests N’ Answers

Summary

Episode Summary: "The Rule of Cool w/ Ify Nwadiwe | Quests N’ Answers"

Release Date: April 23, 2025
Podcast: Critical Role & Sagas of Sundry
Host: Dan Casey
Guest: Ify Nwadiwe

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Introduction

Note: Introductory advertisements and non-content sections have been omitted for clarity.

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Welcome and Guest Introduction (00:43 – 01:15)

Dan Casey opens the episode by welcoming listeners to "Quests N’ Answers," a segment dedicated to interviewing notable figures from the gaming world. He introduces the guest, Ify Nwadiwe, highlighting Ify's roles as the host of "Dropouts," a participant in numerous live comedy shows, and his appearances on "Geek Inside," "Critical Role," and "Goblin Mode."

Dan Casey: “Folks, it's the man, the myth, the legend. Ify W Ify, thank you so much for joining us.”
(00:43)

Ify Nwadiwe: “Thank you for having me. How you doing?”
(01:15)

---

Entering the World of RPGs (02:09 – 06:06)

Dan delves into Ify's journey into tabletop role-playing games (RPGs), exploring his early experiences with online role-playing forums before transitioning to traditional RPGs like Dungeons & Dragons (D&D). Ify shares memories of his first D&D character and the classic trope of struggling with an unlocked door.

Ify Nwadiwe: “My first character was a Paladin that was a Dragonborn, and he had lightning breath... I immediately ran up into the classic D and D trope of not opening the door...”
(03:31)

Dan and Ify discuss the importance of basic problem-solving in RPGs versus the expansive possibilities that can sometimes derail the storytelling process.

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Evolution of Character Creation (06:06 – 09:27)

The conversation shifts to how Ify's approach to character creation has matured over the years. Initially focused on fun and excitement, Ify now prioritizes storytelling and narrative depth, especially in actual play settings intended for an audience.

Ify Nwadiwe: “Now it really leans into, okay, what is the best, the story I want to tell.”
(06:14)

He contrasts home game character creation, which may allow for more strategic "min-maxing," with actual play scenarios that emphasize character-driven narratives.

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Transitioning from Player to Dungeon Master (09:27 – 15:19)

Dan inquires about Ify's shift from being a player to a Dungeon Master (DM). Ify recounts his first experiences DMing, including homebrew projects like a Black Panther-themed RPG and his current endeavors leading a home game. He emphasizes the balance between preparation and improvisation, describing his preference for sandbox-style storytelling that allows players to drive the narrative.

Ify Nwadiwe: “I like to create a sandbox. So instead of making, like, a linear story that has train tracks...”
(11:38)

They discuss the challenges DMs face when players deviate from planned storylines and the importance of maintaining a flexible yet coherent story structure.

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Homebrew Rules and Storytelling in Games (15:19 – 27:33)

Ify shares his philosophy as a "rule of cool DM," where he prioritizes narrative and player creativity over strict adherence to game mechanics. He provides examples from his homebrew work, such as integrating a God of Debts into his campaign to aid in storytelling.

Ify Nwadiwe: “I am a rule of cool dm. So that means if you introduce something that is cool and is progressing the story, even if it's out of... the rules, we will make it work.”
(15:20)

Dan complements this approach, highlighting the collaborative nature of tabletop RPGs and how player-driven narratives enrich the gaming experience.

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Balancing Professional and Personal Gaming (27:33 – 37:41)

The discussion turns to the intersection of professional content creation and personal enjoyment in gaming. Ify emphasizes the importance of maintaining joy and passion in gaming, even when it becomes part of his professional responsibilities.

Ify Nwadiwe: “It's something that we do... and you kind of try and connect and you have this bond with people...”
(20:13)

They explore the challenges of monetizing hobbies and the necessity of balancing work and personal enjoyment to preserve the integrity and fun of gaming.

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Creating Narrative Experiences in Game Development (37:41 – 56:32)

Ify discusses his work in game development, particularly his contributions to titles like Apex Legends and Borderlands 4. He draws parallels between writing for video games and storytelling in tabletop RPGs, emphasizing character development and narrative integration.

Ify Nwadiwe: “...when you are creating characters for the game before you even can get to like writing any dialogue... it's just like making an NPC or making a... villain in a tabletop game...”
(29:11)

He highlights the complexities of game development, such as maintaining fresh dialogue for repetitive actions and catering to diverse player interests from hardcore lore enthusiasts to casual gamers.

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Favorite and Recommended RPGs (56:32 – 59:58)

As the conversation nears its end, Ify recommends unique RPGs that listeners might be overlooking, such as "Sin Eater," a solo journaling TTRPG by his friend Annika Sela. He also shares his enthusiasm for particular games like "Escape the Dark Dungeon" and discusses his recent gaming interests.

Ify Nwadiwe: “...my friend Annika Sela, who is making this dope new TTRPG game. It's going to kickstart in May called Sin Eater...”
(52:49)

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Anime Recommendations and Fun Facts (59:03 – 60:17)

Ify and Dan exchange anime recommendations, with Ify expressing excitement for upcoming seasons and titles like "Solo Leveling" and "Sakamoto Days." They also share fun trivia about beverages like Diet Coke and Fanta, adding a light-hearted conclusion to the episode.

Ify Nwadiwe: “If you're ever wondering why Diet Coke tastes different than Coca Cola... That is because Coke Zero is Diet Coca Cola, and Diet Coke is diet New Coke.”
(50:02)

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Final Remarks and Where to Find Ify (60:17 – End)

Dan wraps up the episode by inviting listeners to connect with Ify online through his social media platforms and website, ifycomedy.com. He thanks Ify for his participation and encourages the audience to share their gaming experiences.

Ify Nwadiwe: “...you can play by yourself. It is a flip card dungeon crawler...”
(56:37)

Dan Casey: “Thank you so much again for joining us...”
(56:31)

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Notable Quotes

• Dan Casey: “Why would you just simply turn the knob when you could try to, you know, use a 10 foot pole to check for traps...”
  (05:38)

• Ify Nwadiwe: “Write as much as possible. I think that's the best thing you can do when you're trying to break in is just to write.”
  (37:59)

• Dan Casey: “You're someone who is a nexus of very cool, interesting people. You're someone who I always run into...”
  (19:21)

---

Conclusion

This episode of "Quests N’ Answers" provides an insightful exploration into Ify Nwadiwe's experiences and philosophies in the tabletop RPG and game development spheres. From character creation and DM strategies to balancing professional and personal gaming, listeners gain valuable perspectives on collaborative storytelling and creative innovation in gaming.

For more episodes and content, visit Geek & Sundry.

Transcript

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[Dan Casey]

Greetings adventurers, and welcome back to Quest and Answers, the show where we talk to all manner of awesome people from around the gaming world. I'm Dan Casey and today we're having a very special guest joining me here in the Conversation Dungeon. Now, you may have seen him gracing your screens as the host of Dropouts. I'm actually, you may have laughed your entire ass off at one of his many live comedy shows. And you may have even seen him right here on Geek Inside during everything from Critical Role to Goblin Mode and beyond, just to name a few of his many credits. Folks, it's the man, the myth, the legend. Ify W Ify, thank you so much for joining us.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Thank you for having me. How you doing?

[Dan Casey]

I'm good, man, I'm good. Always a good day when I get to hang out with you on or off camera, but today it happens to be on so iffy. Last time you were on the channel, you were joining us for an episode or three of Sagas of Sundry Goblin Mode as the high flying political sky pirate Ray Tell what's that was a blast as I've gotten to play with you a handful of times over the years, dating back to a very special episode of Critical Role we did way back in the very early days.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh yeah, yeah, we were like one of the first early guests of Critical Role. And yeah, we were just doing the critical reject stream that, you know, was, yeah, Ulfgar, Fire, Forge. And then we came back for another charity stream and yeah, that was good, good, good stuff.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah, I, I, but I'm curious, like we've been playing together on and off over the years, but when did you first get into the world of pen and paper RPGs? When was the first time you got sucked into this world?

[Ify Wadiwe]

You know, for a long time I've always said, like, oh, it was in, it was in the, when I was 18 when I played my first D and D game but, like, when I think about it, kind of even before that, because I used to do a lot of RPing online. So, like, on Go Gaia, I was doing, like, rp. I was doing a RP forum for Cowboy Bebop. So. But I think, like, for a traditional full system, yeah, it started with D and D and it was. It was when I was 18. But as far as, like, role playing and storytelling, you know, with someone else, that started, you know, as soon as I found other nerds online, it seems.

[Dan Casey]

Like, dude, it's so. I'm so happy you mentioned stuff like Go Gaia and, like, old DBZ or Cowboy Bebop forums. Like, we had a DBZ forum back in the day. I remember people doing also sorts of cool RP and Live Journal. I was even, like, in the ancient texts back when they gave out CD ROMs with hundreds of free hours of AOL discovering RP, like, chat rooms there. It was a strange time to be alive. But I'm curious about that. That game of DnD you mentioned, the first one. Do you remember your earliest character?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, yeah. My first character was a Paladin that was a Dragonborn, and he had lightning breath. And it was only for one session because. And it was a classic. I immediately ran up into the classic D and D trope of not opening the door and just trying to break it down and taking forever to break it down until someone else walked up and opened it.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah. Nothing like discovering all your effort was for an unlocked door. But, yeah, then again, when we. When we played together, I feel like Ador nearly killed our entire party way back in the day in critical role. But, you know, they can be an enduring. Perhaps the most evil character, the most evil monster you can face in any TTRPG is just a locked door or unlocked.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes. Oh, yeah, I know. It's truly. Because I think that's, like, a great intro, especially into early, like, D and D culture of, like, I think people get caught up in the fact, like, oh, you can do anything. And they don't think to do, like, the basic things, like, okay, I'm gonna try and open the door first. Like, going through this, like, system. And I think it is, like, it just kind of goes for each D and D. Because for me, like, when you play with me, it's like, if you're trying to walk through a door and it's unlocked, you walk through the door, you know, I'm not gonna say that it's closed, you know, or I will say, like, there's a door there. But yeah, I think I don't want to sit there and see you try to break down a door that's closed because I'd rather just continue telling the story.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah, it's sort of the opposite of railroading in that respect where it's just like, all right, I could let you figure out how to open this any other way apart from simply turning the knob. Or we could just proceed with the story so we can all tell a nice story together.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah, yeah. Which, you know, I think it's a perfect hazing ritual. If you know it's someone's first time and you do that, totally fine. It's. But I feel like now I'm just like, no, I spent too much time on this story. Let's go.

[Dan Casey]

It does feel like an interesting litmus test for players in terms of like, how their, how their gameplay brain grafts onto something like this. Because it is, you know, a game. Like you mentioned, sandbox potential. You can do anything. Why would you just simply turn the knob when you could try to, you know, use a 10 foot pole to check for traps or like case the window or burn the building down so only the door is left. The possibilities are endless, sometimes to the player's detriment.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes, truly.

[Dan Casey]

You mentioned your first character. Now that you've been playing for a number of years, how do you feel like your approach to character creation has changed at all?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, man. I think now, I think before when I'm new to the game and I was super like excited, I definitely. It starts with, okay, what is like fun, what is exciting, what's a cool character to make? I think when I first started playing, I was more so treating D and D like any other game. Like, what is the game to play? What do I think is the most, the perfect build for what we need? And I think that nowadays, and I think part of it does in fact come from the like aspect of what we do, which is doing it of, you know, as our jobs for display, storytelling. Now it really leans into, okay, what is the best. The story I want to tell.

[Dan Casey]

You know, do you find that when you are making a character, you have a different approach when it comes to something for a home game versus like an actual play, something intended for an audience.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh man. Yeah. I think for a home game I think you can like min max a bit. I think you can, you know, do things where you're trying to like play the game more. Whereas, like, for an actual play, it's storytelling you're. You're doing. It's a Piece of media. It is just another narrative story told using D and D as another kind of storyteller, another writer. And I. And yeah, that's what's fun. You're getting ready to say something.

[Dan Casey]

No, no, no. I just got. I. I was just thinking about that, that min.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Max.

[Dan Casey]

I feel like there's one person in every group where they're just. Their mission in life is to figure out how to take any given rule set and completely shatter it and just bend it to their will. And that's not always fun to experience for the audience on camera. It. Oh yeah, fun when you thwart a DM's plans in some capacity. But in a home game, there's a time and a place, I would say, definitely.

[Ify Wadiwe]

And I feel like, you know, it. All of the different tables I've played at for actual plays have been different. Right. Where you have. Sometimes it's someone who's like, you know, throw what you want at me. I'm gonna be able to dodge it each way. And of course, I think a lot of people don't see the like off camera discussions that might be popping up, you know, when that goes down. But yeah, I think there's the element of what is the character that's gonna be the best, you know, storyteller in this event. The best. What is. I think that when you play home games, you get to look at it like a loadout. And then when you do actual play, you look at it as a cast of characters and you kind of start with the character first and almost work your way back sometimes where I'm already thinking about who that person is, what they're into, and then I pick the class that fits. The better there is some like, okay, what is everyone? Let's make sure we don't like do like five bards. But beyond that, it's like, okay, what's open? Cool, cool. Okay, I'm gonna find the character and then attach the class to that. Them.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah, I definitely, I definitely appreciate that perspective. Especially when you are, you know, especially when you're making something that is intended for a wider audience. You want to make sure that characters coming first. You know, I think about Goblin mode where I had this exact same conversation with Amy where I was like, well, we need, we need a tank. We need someone who's beefy and she's like, no, just, just be three glass cannons. Like, what's the worst that could happen? You die almost every episode. And the answer is yes, that probably was the worst thing that almost happened. But at the same Time, it was more narratively satisfying to play these sort of three people that @ the beginning, like, a slight breeze could probably kill them. Yeah. But by the end, you know, you get to go on that journey alongside them. And it's just. It's a rewarding experience, especially when you're starting from that place of character. But I know that you're someone who. I know you primarily as a player because that's how I've gotten to play these games with you. But I know you're also someone who's frequently behind the screen as well. When did you make that shift from player to dm, and what was that experience like?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, I think the first time I really like DM'd something was when I did a homebrew Black Panther RPG for a different AP. And that was like, the first time I kind of went behind the DM screen. I'm trying to, like, think deep because I think when I'm now doing it for my home game, I think this is the first time I've DMed a home game. And that's been very fun. Just kind of having the story be told and kind of put players to it. And there's like, a couple forever DMs that are at the table, and it's always fun to see in what ways you can kind of catch them off guard. Right. And make them excited where it's like, oh, yeah, yeah, check this out. Like, this is some fun stuff that you now get to experience. Experience on that side of the table.

[Dan Casey]

I. I hear you. There's nothing like seeing the joy on a forever DM's face when they finally get to be a player for a change.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, yeah.

[Dan Casey]

Just this, like, huge sense of burden being lifted off their shoulders. I'm curious for you, though. What. What is your preparation, like, for a typical session? Like, do you're someone who needs to prep a lot in advance?

[Ify Wadiwe]

I, you know, I do a lot of improv, but it is, like, a lot of prep in the way I like. The way I like to describe how I build out my games is I like to create a sandbox. So instead of making, like, a linear story that has train tracks, I build out, I think of, like, the place they're gonna visit, who are gonna be the characters there, what's the story behind it. And that way, no matter what thread they pull on, since they're all interconnected in some way with that baseline story, then we can venture down that rabbit hole versus, you know, doing it. And I'm like, okay, this. In this Session. I want them to enter the town, they're gonna be captured and then they have to like, you know, make their case to this person and they have to hit. But I feel like the moment you try and like put people to hit on your list, it just spirals out of control. I remember it with the same group. I kind of broke away from it because I was like, oh, I want to do a murder mystery thing. And I laid out all the people they need to talk to to kind of get to the bottom of this. And it has morphed and transformed because they went and talked to. There was four different people. They went to talk to the three people. And then right before they went to talk to the fourth person, I just offhandedly was like, oh, yeah. And then there's like a dungeon down there. And they're like, oh, okay, well we definitely want to check the dungeon because maybe somebody heard something. And it was like, damn, that is true. I was just fleshing out this castle. But I didn't like, definitely didn't like build or render this dungeon in my head at all. That was just stuff. And then they're like, we're going down there. And so like now I'm just building on the fly all these people who exist in the dungeon. Which has led me to get to the point now where I am like, yeah, I want to build the playground and just expect them to play with any piece of it.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah, I mean, look, players are always kind of like raptors testing the fences. It's, it's of natural. Like you said. Naturally, if you mention a dungeon, they're going to want to go explore that dungeon. I like to mention an example of I was playing in a game with a friend of mine and he mentioned, oh, all of these like fancy looking nobles are getting on a train. Oh, obviously we want to get on this train as well and do a rootin tootin train heist. Like, why, why wouldn't that be the.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Next thing that we do?

[Dan Casey]

And he was like, huh? I, I really didn't think that was what you were going to do. I thought you would explore the town first. Well, choo choo, buddy, we're getting. It's all aboard time. Yes, but I think that's where something like your improv experience comes in super handy because, you know, it makes you feel probably less just sort of bowled over when you get hit with the uno reverse card and people are like, oh, you know, those carefully laid plans that you had, we're just going to upend them entirely.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes, oh, yeah, definitely. It's like, oh, yeah. No, we're. You didn't upend anything. I've planned for this. Prepare yourself.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah, and that's like. I feel like that being able to play that off is where most of the time, I feel like players probably won't know. As long as you proceed confidently and act like you have a plan, I think they'll believe that a plan was in fact in place. And sometimes maybe just say, hey, I need to take a minute. I wasn't expecting you to do this, but we're going to make it happen, so just give me a second.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes.

[Dan Casey]

I'm curious for you, though. You know, you mentioned sort of homebrewing, a Black Panther rpg. Do you have any favorite homebrew rules or sort of things that you employ in your home games?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Ooh, man.

[Dan Casey]

You've encountered.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah, I think I've just kind of like. Because I am a rule of cool dm. So that means if you introduce something that is cool and is progressing the story, even if it's out of. Out of the world of the game or out of the rules, we will make it work. So I always tell my players, just figure out what you want to do. We'll focus on if it works after. And I think one of the kind of homebrew systems that I kind of really liked recently was. So the world of my home game is a reverse isekai. It is a world. It's a realm where people keep blipping in, and they're blipping into this, into this realm. And they've been called the marooned. No one knows where they come from. They don't know how to send them back. And the players are part of this group that's trying to figure out what's happening, what's going on. And one of the players that's marooned is just a totally wild, like, warlock skeleton person named Deadwood. And he is like a outlaw cowboy warlock in this world. And he was on the run from the God of debts and fell right into kind of her master plan, which was to use him to hunt down someone who the person who killed the God of gambling and has left all this extra responsibility because they come from a world that has multiple gods, almost too many gods. Like I said, there's a God of death, there's a God of gambling. There's every thing that exists, there's a God of it, and it. And it's slowly causing this, like, overwhelming nature where people are killing them and then other gods have to take over the role of that. And they were, they were tracking down someone for a just one off mission. And the person owed someone money. And the my player E, she was like, well, since, you know, I'm working for the God of debts, isn't there some kind of way I can track them down since they owe money? And that was like such a cool idea that I let it fly and I basically made it an ability where they kind of tap in to the debts owed to that person and they show up almost like a spiritual line to the person that they owe money to. And they were able to, they didn't roll high enough to get all four names, but they were able to get three names based on this connection to the God of debts who are, who exists now in this world with him. And that was like really cool. I think it was such a interesting way to utilize an interesting type of deity and how it helped, you know, find what they, what they needed in the moment.

[Dan Casey]

I, yeah, I, I love that because it's such a great push and pull between player and like DM game master because they're, you know, they're using the narrative structure, the scaffolding that you've provided to do something really innovative and expand that world in fun and interesting ways. Like, that's what I love about tabletop RPGs because it is a version of, it's a type of communal collaborative storytelling that you don't really get to do in a lot of other mediums. I feel like, you know, if you're playing a game that's like being something, if you're playing like a video game, that's something that's been a curated experience by a specific team of people. If you're watching a movie, that's another curated experience. This is a story that you're telling and evolving together. You know, obviously it's in the playground of the DM who's presenting it, but at the same time, I love that as an example of how player and DM create something that becomes more than the sum of its parts.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh yeah, definitely.

[Dan Casey]

You are someone who is a nexus of very cool, interesting people. You're someone who I always run into someone, they happen to know you and both of our faces light up when we realize that we both know you.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah.

[Dan Casey]

And what I love about tabletop role playing games is it is something where you have to come together and you bring a group of people together. Like I mentioned, you tell a story and you know, we were sort of chatting in both before we started recording about the sort of ambient psychic damage that we take just from existing in the world. Nowadays things seem headlines seem bad out there. It can just be a challenge to get through the day. Sometimes to me it feels more important than ever to make time and sit down to enjoy something like the simple act of play. So I'm curious for you, is that something that is important for you and how do you feel like your the value you place on something like that has changed over time?

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[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah I would say. Yeah I would say. You know the value I think changes in many ways just because like I said, it's what we do. It's our everyday and it's something that we love doing before people paid us to do it, but it's still a part of it. So I think it makes you value the off camera moments just as much as you like, have the on camera ones and you kind of try and connect and you have this bond with people. You know, I feel like we'll go like, you know, sometimes years without seeing each other. And then as soon as we do, it's like time has never passed. I definitely want to be better about making sure it isn't years and find time to actually connect outside of pods and work. But yeah, I think it really is. There's just like a fun connection with the thing that we do and the people that we do it with. And also just making sure we keep it fun for ourselves and it doesn't become just something we look at and just like shudder because we're like, that's work.

[Dan Casey]

No, I 100% appreciate that because it, when you monetize your hobbies, it becomes difficult to derive joy from them. If it does just feel like another sort of check mark that you're taking off. And being able to create that separation of church and state, to still find joy in the things you do for work, even if they happen to be things you do for fun, I think is a very important balance to strike. So it's always one that I'm trying to keep up. You know, it's, it's, you know, it's nice when I can do different things outside of work, cultivate different hobbies, or explore even different sides of a hobby that I am able, that I do professionally. But it's always, it's always a bit of a push and pull thinking about people that either maybe don't do this professionally or want to just up their game a little bit. Is there a piece of advice you would give to someone who's maybe prepping to run or play their first game or maybe wants to shake things up with their existing home game?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, yeah, I think just no need to overthink it. You know, I think some people, they're watching a lot of like the critical roles, the dimension twenties, the adventure zones, and all these shows that have all this support outside of the people who are just sitting at the table. They're trying to compare the game that they're presenting with their friends to that. And at the end of the day, you sitting at the table, telling that story with your friends, that's. That's it. That's the stuff, you know, it isn't about. If you're telling the best story, if you're, if you're the most compelling, like, that'll happen on its own. It's a collaborative storytelling experience. If you're listening to your Players, you'll know what they want to do, you know, what they want to tie in on. I. I think my other point of advice is that that line. It's a collaborative storytelling experience. Don't like. It's very easy to get into the position of trying to, like, craft the perfect story for your players to play through. But I think the best story is the one that everyone is invested and involved in. And I. It even happens to me if. If I get too locked in, if I get too much dip on my chip and I want to. Specific story, I will see the difference in this, like, crafted story, which they do appreciate, they do like. And yet the moment you add connective tissue to the characters they're playing, to their backstory, there's just another level of commitment and excitement. And I think that's why it's totally worth making sure you're asking your players, you know, to submit their backstories, and you're reading that and you are adding it to the story, because that's when you're gonna create something so good. That's when you get those stakes that are larger than life.

[Dan Casey]

No. 100%. I have a very vivid memory of. I was playing in a Curse of Strahd campaign, and our DM had us just send backstories at the very beginning. And then it was almost like a year later, this detail that I'd honestly forgotten about with this character backstory came back to be a major plot point. And it was such a holy structure moment to me, where, oh, yeah, it just made so many things feel so much more resonant. Click into place. And at that point, it felt like, oh, cool, we're really building something together. Like, I already felt this way, but now I feel it in a whole different dimension where you feel a different level of agency beyond, you know, just trying to see what I can do in initiative order. So I. I love that as a piece of advice.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, yeah. It really is kind of funny how. How different it is for folks the moment they feel a connection, you know, and. And it. I don't think there's anything against, you know, DMs and, like, what they're saying. I. I think it's just kind of like. Like, it's just. People just feel more tapped in because it's the story that they told, and it feels more personal. And I think that. That you. Like, it's not that, like, people aren't interested in the stories their DMs are telling. Like, they. They definitely are, but the moment that it is that it is connected to them. I feel like that just adds like it makes it more personal and they are now trying to, trying to get on top of it.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah, it just, it brings people into this world in a way that I think they otherwise might not be drawn in. Because I think about the sort of time commitment needed for playing an rpg. It's not really something you play. Like no one sits down to play. Like I'm just do a couple quick rounds of DND. There's no like 30 minute session. Typically you're there for several hours and it's a long time to keep people invested because you know, the spotlight's not always on your character. You want people to feel actively engaged and like they have a meaningful stake in this world and that what's happening matters even when it's not happening directly to them. And I think what you described there is definitely a great way of creating that sense of group investment, making sure that everyone feels like they have a tangible stake and that they're really interested in what's going to happen as things move on. And look, I get it. Sometimes a four hour session, especially if two and a half hours of that is like three rounds of combat, 18 seconds of real world time occurring in game, it can feel like, okay, I'm just kind of waiting for my turn to come around. But during those other narrative moments you really want, you know, you want them to hit just as much as the players want them to hit. So why not create that synthesis like you were saying something else? I want to talk about something I find very fascinating and cool about. Your multi hyphenate career is in addition to, you know, screenwriting, you've also done a fair amount of writing for games. You've worked on projects like Apex Legends, also through Vesper with Lanterns of Nightfall. So can you tell us a little bit about how you approach creating a narrative gameplay experience for a medium like video games and how that maybe compares to prepping a gameplay experience for a tabletop setting?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Ooh, yeah, it's actually kind of similar in some ways. Like I, you know, I worked on, you know, I created Newcastle for Apex Legend and I worked on some stuff for Borderlands 4 and more on that's going to come out, you know, very soon. But in that like I find that when you are creating characters for the game before you even can get to like writing any dialogue or like doing any of that stuff, you kind of define who the character is. You kind of do like a side for that character, which is usually their name, age, Range, some background, a little bio, you know about them. And, and I think that that is just like making a character in dd. You are sitting down, you are kind of finding the history beyond that and making these characters and just developing them. And then as you play the game, the D and D game, you learn more about their story and you let them flesh out. And I feel like when you're writing for video games, you're kind of planning that out, you know, that you know that's coming down in the future. So you're just allowing yourself to kind of determine how this is gonna play out. So it's really very similar to making an NPC or making a, you know, boss or villain in a tabletop game in a lot of ways. And I think that that is what has prepped it. It, you know, for me a lot where now I'm just writing down the lines that they'll say based on the instances on the, you know, spreadsheet in front of me. But I kind of approach it the exact same way.

[Dan Casey]

That's very cool to hear though, that, that sort. There's a more of a one to one translation there than I think people might expect. And this, you know, in D and D, you're waiting for that hypothetical situation to come up here. A lot of them have been presupposed because there's so many instances of gameplay or scenarios that are theoretically possible that you need to work with through the pipeline there. What would you say has been like one of the bigger learning curves you maybe encountered in the world of game dev?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh man, I think just staying on top of deadlines. You know, there's those jiras, you sit down, you plan it out. And I think also just how in the nitty gritty it can be. And I'll explain myself because I know I'm just saying words at that point, but for a game like Apex Legend, it is a arena shooter, battle royale game. And a lot of the story is told in these kind of regular interaction that happen. And then at the same time, this is a game that you drop in, you try and win, you die, you repeat a lot of these actions. A lot of these moments are going to happen a lot. So you're going to have to write down a lot of the same thing in different ways. So if it's like, hey, we need to get to the point, because they know people are going to play this a bunch and they don't want it to get old, you're writing, hey, let's get to the point, almost like 1520, 25 different ways to say the same thing. When you are selecting, you know, the character select lines. That is also another one that you're writing 15, 20 different versions of so that it isn't a thing that just gets old after your like fifth game of the day. And so because of that, you're able to inject kind of like little Easter eggs about who they are. But also it does become pretty, you start kind of like grasping at straws when you get to, you know, I'm landing here, number 14.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah, dude, I, I can imagine that. I imagine it's, it's a double edged sword because it can be mind numbing after a certain point. But it's also a very interesting muscle to develop. Being able to take this like very utilitarian line of saying, like, all right, we're dropping here, but saying that in like 16 different ways, but managing that expectation with like something like a hero shooter. I've played a lot of Apex, a lot of Overwatch, both games that have a lot of, it's like environmental storytelling almost where you have to imply certain things about the character.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes.

[Dan Casey]

Because you're given so few. Like you get the occasional dialogue interaction, like when you're waiting to spawn or when you're landing, but it's, you know, you're not able to accomplish as much as you would in some of the cinematics they offer. But at the same time, it's a unique storytelling challenge, I feel.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh yeah, definitely. Because it truly is like you're, you're telling this story in a, in a very almost secretive way. You know, you're, you're like, oh, I, I gotta inject the story in here, but I can't, you know, sit here and have the characters say all these lines. And of course we have like the episodes that you can like check out and the, the other things like that. But in general, you know, yeah, you're, you're kind of sneaking it in front of everyone's face. Like this is, this is the story that is in between the matches and updates. Because I think for a game like Apex, it's very interesting having this different user base where you have some of the users who just cannot give a shit about the story. They are like, I'm here to play the game. I want to be a MLG gamer. I want to be the very best there ever was. And then you have people who are like lore hounds and they're like, no, I want, want every piece of lore. I want to know all the stories. I want to know behind what's happening, I need it all. And I. And I. And I will look through every nook and cranny to give it to get that information. And yeah, those. Those ones are the ones who I'd be excited to see kind of unraveling or like, calling something that I know is going to happen way early. And I'm like, yeah, you got it. You don't even know, but you got it.

[Dan Casey]

I'm definitely in the camp that I want to know more about these characters, but not in the camp where I'm like, okay, well, I'm going to choo an off meta character just so I can hear this unique voice interaction, which I imagine is the push and the pull, where it's like, okay, we have to write some sort of interaction between these characters, even if this one gets picked maybe one out of every 100 games. But for that hundredth time, we got to reward people with that little nugget of story, because otherwise, what's going to happen?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah, exactly. I know. That's why it's so funny, because there was an effect that happened in our. And in my character, he was Bangalore's brother who was believed to be dead. And so we put a special animation elimination for Bangalore and Newcastle, and it was hidden in there. And we were wondering. I was like, there's a world in which no one finds this because everyone. Because you can buy, like, custom eliminations, and then you also have to go against someone who is playing a Bangalore. But then, of course, there are people who, when a new character comes out, they go and do the elimination on every character, on every. And just to find that stuff. So, like, by the time that launched, everyone kind of knew what was going on. It was very funny. I was like, oh, yeah, I was worried. And yet they found out so quick it wasn't even funny.

[Dan Casey]

Yeah. Never, never underestimate the power of a dedicated fan base that wants to discover each of those interactions. Because you know that thank goodness for those fans out there that are the lore hounds, because they will ferret it out for the rest of us that don't have the same amount of time to test every single character elimination reaction.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah. And I, Yeah, I truly am grateful for them because I'll just watch their video and then I don't have to. I don't have to go play it. I'm like, yeah, there it is.

[Dan Casey]

Oh, that's the narrative experience I wanted. Thank you for curating this for me.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes, yes. You did what needed to be done, and I thank you for your service.

[Dan Casey]

Amazing. So what's a piece of advice that you might give someone who might be looking to get into the world of game development or game design and is maybe coming at this from experience playing tabletop or TTRPGs?

[Ify Wadiwe]

I think lean into your instincts as a storyteller. I think write as much as possible. I think that's the best thing you can do when you're trying to break in is just to write. Write as many stories. And it feels so cliche. Every. Everyone I heard it coming up and I was like, they're like, write every day. Write every day. And you're like, what do you even mean? And that isn't to say every day you need to be writing a script or every day you need to be writing prose that can be as simple. Like, when Twitter wasn't a hell site, I would be like, I'm a write three jokes a day on there. I'm a write any way that you're just flexing the muscle of writing daily so that it becomes commonplace. But also you have this beautiful thing where the more you write, the more, like, backlog of your work you get. And as you write, you just get better. I remember I wrote my first. I was like, I need a samples. Sample pilot for screenwriting. I need to get that out the way. Whatever. I'm just going to. I'm just going to go ahead and just write one. I'm just going to write it up. I wrote it for my improv team at the time, and it really didn't go anywhere, but it was a sample that was usable. And then it got me work. And then I went to write something new and then I wrote that and I went back to my old sample before that, and I was like, oh, man, I've gotten so much better. And then I wrote something else and then I was like, oh, I got so much better. And I think that's a thing that can happen. And I'm talking to a lot of you folks out there with these well fleshed out, wonderful, delicious ocs that you've made and you've posted your OC on, you know, Twitter or Blue sky. And you keep talking and you have all these details about it and, and how cool they are and all the. All the snippets of the lore and you won't just write the story yet. And I remember I was actually on Joco Cruise with a bunch of. Joko Cruise also has a lot of great sci fi authors and authors on the boat. I was talking about that phenomena and two of them were Actual, like, writing professors. And they go, oh, yeah, because they do that. Because you can't ruin it yet. You can if you write the. If you do the world building but never write it. You don't ruin it. And there's no way for you to ruin it because it's your thing. And I think you just got to take that swing. You gotta just start writing it. And at worst, you quote, unquote, ruin it. Guess what? You can do another draft. You know, so. And the first draft is always the hardest. Let me tell you that. And let me repeat that for you one more time. The first draft is always going to be the hardest. It is the longest part of my writing process is always getting that first draft down. And so now what I do is just get whatever I can on the page, just make it to start, to finish, try and hit the page count. And then after that polishing, it just flies by. So get that first draft down. And then everything else goes so, so, so much quicker.

[Dan Casey]

So I want to. I want to transition a little bit and, you know, go from talking about advice to talking about knowledge and the pursuit of knowledge, specifically through pedantic trivia. Now, as I mentioned at the top of the show, you are the host of a very popular show on Dropout called I'm Actually, you went from the winningest contestant to the host of the show. I'm curious for you ify you're someone I've known for a very long time. I know you have a deep well of knowledge, but what's that experience been like, going from contestant to host?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, it's been great and for many, many reasons. One, I'm actually is a show that I passionate about. Like, I really love. I've loved competing in it. I loved everything about it. And, you know, there was a talk that we were having kind of before all this where, you know, we were talking about, like, what was. What would be the show that I host for Dropout. What show would I host for Dropout? And every version came just was like some, you know, bootleg version of I'm actually. Because I'm actually is the type of show that I'd want to make because, you know, Dropout makes, like, fun panel shows that people can jump on. And if I want to do that and want to do that nerdy, what better way is it than a show like, I'm actually. And I was noodling on it and I was trying to find, like, yeah, what would that show be? And then I didn't have to think anymore because they asked me to host, actually. And so I went ahead and I said yes quicker than I've ever said yes in my life. And it's been a dream. But not only that, but you know, in my history of being on all the networks that people have seen me on, the last time I hosted my own show was back when I was doing stuff on Geek and Sundry, you know, like up until then. So I was. The big running joke was that, you know, if he's just everywhere on the Internet but doesn't have his own channel, because I just, with my adhd, I just cannot wrap my brain around trying to have my own YouTube channel, trying to get my, like, I just was like, I would much rather just hop on someone else's channel, say the things that I would say on mine and then call it there. And now, you know, we come, you know, we do them actually. And I'm like, oh, I have my own show. And I can just see the support and everyone is so sweet and there's so much, like, love. It's such a treat, you know. So I think that's the biggest jump, I think is the level of like responsibility and ownership that I have now because now I've just totally, you know, moved into like, kind of like moved into just this new position of as.

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[Ify Wadiwe]

Of, of. Of. Just this guy with the show.

[Dan Casey]

And I, I feel like that that sense of passion and joy really comes through in the episodes because, you know, you, you folks put together incredible panels. It's just a really great environment. All in the pursuit of, you know, having, having a good time, nerdy trivia, all of that fun stuff. But there's this pervasive undertone of fun that I, to me, as someone who, you know, we've been making content online for approximately 1 million years now, being able to still derive that sense of joy and passion I think is a special thing. And that really comes through in every episode. Have there been any topics that you have not been able to include in the show yet that you're dying to for future episodes, like sort of generalized areas of expertise?

[Ify Wadiwe]

No, I think we hit the ground running and we're, you know, did mechs already did, you know. So I think what I like that we do and will continue to do is Brian is really good at finding like these like, niche, weird things that he likes to tap in on. So it's always like weird Internet. Like that's his. That's his favorite kind of thing. And I, I hope we just find more things like that or like when we did the girly episode because someone just tweeted it. I was like, yeah, that is a great idea. Sometimes tweeting your good ideas will get seen. And I'll be like, yeah, let's just do it, you know, that's awesome.

[Dan Casey]

I do like the idea that just posting online is not always yelling into a wind tunnel. Most of the time, yes. But occasionally a good idea will get through.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah, definitely.

[Dan Casey]

Are there any subjects that you get particularly pedantic about in real life?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Ooh, I feel like anything when it comes to, like, polyamory and, like, dating stuff, I think that's my element where I start to get really pedantic and annoying because I just. I love, you know, it's something I've always loved talking about. And, you know, I have the podcast with M. Our relationship pod where we talk about these things, and it is, like, very funny. Like, someone, like, referred to us as, like, educators, and I was like, huh? Like, I know. I immediately was like, well, you know, first off and foremost, we are not professionals, but I think there's, like, an element to it where. Yeah, there are. There's just some very unactually able things about, like, dating that I think people get misconstrued 100%.

[Dan Casey]

I imagine there's a billion misconceptions, especially when it's something as charged as anything relating to dating. When you mentioned. When you mentioned the word educators, I definitely understand being like, well, I wouldn't say educator. Yeah, I don't want to. I know there's people with degrees out there, but there's a term that that Kyle Hill, our mutual friend, uses for what he does, and that is science communicator. So I feel like you both could easily call yourself relationship communicator in a way that is like, you're talking about this. At the end of the day, it's all about communication, important in everything you do. But I think in this capacity, it's like, it removes the. The pressure of being like, oh, man, do I need to go out and get an MA and sexual education now? But I definitely. I can appreciate. Appreciate that. That's awesome. I'm wondering as well, when I think about a show, like, I'm actually, it makes me think of people that are champing at the bit to tell you that, like, Viggo Mortensen broke his toe when Aragorn kicks the helmet in Fellowship of the Ring. Do you have a factoid or anything like that in real life that you're like, oh, man, I can't wait till someone brings up this particular special interest or moment so I can chime in with something deeply relevant to the conversation.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, I think my, like, fun fact that I always shoehorn in every time is the fact that that Diet Coke is The new Coke flavor. And that's why they had to make Coke Zero. So when they made the new Coke flavor that everyone hated, which is the reason why Coca Cola is called Coca Cola Classic, they made New Coke, everyone hated it and it sales were bad. So they went back to the original formula, which thus created Coca Cola Classic. Diet Coke did fine. Like people actually liked the flavor. So when they went back to Coca Cola Classic Diet Coke State, that changed formula. And so if you're ever wondering why Diet Coke tastes different than Coca Cola and Coke Zero taste like Coke, Coca Cola. That is because Coke Zero is Diet Coca Cola and Coke. Diet Coke is diet New Coke.

[Dan Casey]

That is wild. I had no idea about that. It's also wild because my fun fact that I like to share is also Coke related. So that's a very small world. Do you know? Do you know why? Do you know the story of how Fanta came into existence?

[Ify Wadiwe]

No, what's the story?

[Dan Casey]

So during the lead up and into World War II, soda was very popular in Germany. Specifically Coca Cola products were very popular in Germany. Coke was a very popular drink. However, as fascism was on the rise and Nazis took power, the Coca Cola Corporation did not want their all American beverage being associated with like the official drink of Hitler Youth. So to create a product they could sell in European markets, specifically in Germany, they came, they came up with Fanta and Fanta Orange. So that is why we have Fanta today, why there's a much bigger population of Fanta drinkers across the. Across the sea. So yeah, it's, it's Fanta. I wouldn't call it Nazi Cola, but they wanted to change things up from Coca Cola, so that's why they want a Fonta.

[Ify Wadiwe]

That is very funny. Holy. Holy crap.

[Dan Casey]

It's just one of those weird things where you're like, okay, I wish I didn't know this, but I guess I'm glad that I do. But what can you do? Well, I want to transition into sort of the final phase of our conversation today because all good things unfortunately must come to an end. But I want to leave people with some recommendations, some. Some cool things to do as they go forth into their week or their evening, whatever they're doing. So we started off talking about TTRPGs. Do you have a favorite TTRPG or just an RPG in general that you think people are maybe sleeping on that you wish got a bit more shine or wish people would give a try?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yeah, I think I just want to take the moment and talk about my friend Annika Sela, who is making this dope new TTRPG game. It's going to kickstart in May called Sin Eater. So it is. It's. It's like super, super dope. It's like a like solo journaling ttrpg. The art looks really rad. And I know that they are big, you know, Dark Souls fan and I. And they are just the way their brain works, the writer that they are. I know that you're in good hands with anything that they make, so I truly think. Keep your eyes peeled, Sin Eater. Look it up on Kickstarter. Hit that. Notify me when it launches, and take it from there. That's all I gotta say.

[Dan Casey]

That's awesome. I am always appreciative of creators that make solo RPGs because we so often think of it as something that must be played with multiple people. But even as a creative exercise alone, being able to put yourself in that mindset and also just if you're traveling or something, it's just a nice way to. To pass the time, do something rewarding from a narrative perspective. So very excited to check out Sin Eater when it comes out.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes, indeed.

[Dan Casey]

Now, ify, I know that you are a fellow anime enjoyer. Is there an anime that you've enjoyed recently or something that you wish more people have seen so you could nerd out with them about it?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, man. I think everyone's kind of on board for this, but, you know, I'm a big Dan to Dan Dan guy. And I'm a big Dan to Dan Dan Casey guy as well. So. Yeah, they just announced that the new season's coming in July. I'm super stoked for it. But as far as the ones that I'm gonna try to get on board because I haven't hopped on it yet. Definitely want to check out solo leveling and. And I keep calling it. And everyone will know what I mean when I. But the liquor store Anime too. I want to do that one.

[Dan Casey]

Are you talking about Sakamoto Days?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes. Yeah.

[Dan Casey]

Okay. Fantastic.

[Ify Wadiwe]

What do you mean? Are you talking about. You knew exactly what I meant when I said the liquor store.

[Dan Casey]

Double check making sure there was another liquor store anime out there.

[Ify Wadiwe]

No, that is the liquor store. Yeah, that is the liquor store anime. Sakamoto Days. Yes.

[Dan Casey]

That is incredible. That's amazing. Yeah. And cool news about Dan to Dan as well. They're also releasing, I think, the first three episodes of the season in. They're doing a theatrical release for them. So if you want to see your favorite characters on the big screen, like that then definitely check it out. I just got the chance to see Princess Mononoke, the 4K remaster on IMAX, and I'm just like on cloud nine after that. So a lot of it's a good. A good time to be an anime fan is what I'm saying.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes.

[Dan Casey]

Last question for you, Ify. It's game night. You've been tasked with choosing any game you want. People will read the rules. They'll even watch a video if you send it to them. What game are you bringing and why?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Ooh. I have been really into Escape the Dark Dungeon and Escape the Dark Sector. It is. Speaking of games, you can play by yourself. It is a flip card dungeon crawler and you get the character cards to play along with with their own character dice to fight against these monsters you're up against. So, yeah, definitely. Hop, hop, hop, hop into that for sure.

[Dan Casey]

Escape the Dark Dungeon. Escape the Dark Sector. Sounds very cool. I'll definitely check him out. Thank you.

[Ify Wadiwe]

Yes.

[Dan Casey]

All right, Iffy, where can people find you on the World Wide Web if in fact you want to be found?

[Ify Wadiwe]

Oh, man. Ify Wadiwe on. Yeah, all the socials and iffycomedy.com on blue sky if that's what you're doing.

[Dan Casey]

Amazing. Well, Ify, thank you so much again for joining us. I really appreciate you taking the time, folks. You can find me online at Dan Casey or at Osteopherocious or just right here each and every week. We'll be back with another question answers every single week on geek and sundry's YouTube channel or wherever fine podcasts are served. But in the meantime, folks, well, first of all, thank you for listening, but we also want to know, what games are you playing this week? What are you most excited to introduce to your table? Let us know in the comments and we'll see you folks next time. Bye. Bye.

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Nothing is as it seems in liminal London. Hidden amongst everyday people are werewolves.

[Ify Wadiwe]

You'll be the werewolf then.

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Yeah, Megs.

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Yeah. I'm the sludge boy. Love sludge boy. No, again, I'm not that sludge boy.

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Grant Howard.

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[Ify Wadiwe]

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Yay. I'm in a magic community.

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