Critics at Large Live: Padma Lakshmi’s Expansive Taste

Summary

Podcast Summary: Critics at Large Live — Padma Lakshmi’s Expansive Taste

Podcast: Critics at Large | The New Yorker
Episode: Critics at Large Live: Padma Lakshmi’s Expansive Taste
Date: November 6, 2025
Hosts: Vinson Cunningham (C), Alexandra Schwartz (D), Nomi Fry (A)
Guest: Padma Lakshmi (B)

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Main Theme

This special live episode brings acclaimed producer, writer, and television host Padma Lakshmi to the Critics at Large stage at the New Yorker Festival. The central theme is a deep, engaging exploration of "taste" — in food, culture, art, and criticism — through the lens of Lakshmi’s experiences as a child immigrant, model, culinary authority, and now burgeoning comedian. The hosts and Lakshmi debate how taste defines individuals and communities, what it means to have "good taste," and how exposure, curiosity, and judgment play into both personal and cultural evolution.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Padma Lakshmi’s Cultural Journey and the Roots of Taste

• Padma's earliest memories of taste: Recounts being encouraged by her grandmother to try bold flavors—spicy foods, pickles, chilies—as a child in India.
• Exposure to color and design: Describes textile shopping for saris in Chennai and learning to distinguish subtle hues — linking visual discernment to broader aesthetic taste.

  “I learned, you know, sort of at the hem of my grandmother's sari, so to speak.” (B, 08:15)

• Immigrant experience and New York: Describes arriving in America at age four on Halloween, being delighted and bewildered by the festive, rule-breaking spirit—imprinting early on freedom of expression and, tangentially, taste.

  “America, this magical land where all you have to do is put some weird clothes on and people give you candy.” (B, 09:17)

2. Taste vs. Pickiness

• Defining good taste: Padma frames good taste as knowing “good from bad, pleasurable versus punishing,” rooted in willing exposure and open-mindedness.

  “A person who has taste has it because they’re willing to try many things. And a person who's picky has no taste because they don't want to try anything.” (B, 14:34)

• Collective resonance: Hosts remark that taste both distinguishes individuals and creates collective ties, especially in an atomized age.

  “Taste... gives these two connecting points between your individuality and then a bigger collective that you're part of.” (D, 04:12)

3. Travel as Taste Education

• Lakshmi credits travel—her years in Italy, France, and Europe, first via modeling work—with expanding and deepening her taste, especially as an immigrant straddling multiple cultures.

  “The best thing that happened to me was all that travel... The more expansive your taste becomes, your sense of taste. But also, hopefully, the better it becomes.” (B, 12:01)

• Describes learning about fine dining and classic European cuisines only as an adult, stressing the importance of being open and curious.

4. Taste in Criticism — Judgment and Kindness

• The hosts and Lakshmi discuss the ethics of public criticism and “tasteful” judgment:
  • Lakshmi draws on her experience with Top Chef and coming show America’s Culinary Cup, emphasizing that criticism should be constructive, face-to-face, and aimed at helping others improve.

  “I always try to be constructive in my criticism. I don't ever say I don't like this... I say, what could make it better, what I don't think worked, and what it felt like to eat it.” (B, 19:06)

  • She also highlights the responsibility of critics to communicate vividly and honestly when the audience cannot directly experience the thing being judged (i.e., food on TV).
• Alexandra Schwartz connects this to the role of good criticism in making things better—not just venting negativity.

  “That really is the root of good negative criticism. It’s, I want this to be better, and it could be.” (D, 20:23)

5. From Judge to Explorer: Taste the Nation

• Lakshmi contrasts her role as a judge on Top Chef with her approach on Taste the Nation and her new book Padma’s All American, where the work is “more about sharing, exploring, and building community.”

  “It’s sort of the last seven years of my life in food... and really finding what I thought was important to bring to a larger audience... It was just a way to build community between Americans in a positive way.” (B, 22:01)

• The show and book, while ostensibly focusing on food, serve as vehicles for cultural and political exploration, using food’s specificity and emotional resonance to foster understanding.

6. Pride, Memory, and the Emotional Science of Taste

• The conversation turns to why food elicits deep personal and cultural pride.
  • Lakshmi references the neurological link between taste, smell, and emotional memory, explaining how food can instantly transport people back to formative places or relationships.

  “Where your sense of taste, well, your sense of smell, your olfactory sense is a lot of your sense of taste. And where that is housed in your brain is very, very close to where emotional memory is also stored.” (B, 24:28)

7. Comedy as a New Arena for Taste

• Lakshmi discusses venturing into stand-up comedy, which she finds both “exhilarating and terrifying,” especially as a well-known figure.

  “When you are well known, you don’t get to fail in private... I say things in my standup that I would never say in an interview in the New Yorker...” (B, 28:14)

• She reflects on her taste in comedy as "crass and really dirty," citing early Richard Pryor as an influence, and appreciates the immediacy and visceral feedback of performing live.

8. Advice for Cultivating Taste

• Padma encourages developing taste by exposing oneself relentlessly to new experiences—especially through eating and travel—not by following rigid lessons or rules.

  “Develop your palate by eating, by traveling, by exposure and proximity to the thing that you want to learn.” (B, 31:43)

9. AI Slop, Transgression, and the Moving Window of Taste

• An audience question sparks lively debate: Can bad or “abhorrent” AI-generated content actually become good or tasteful through repetition or ironic appreciation?
  • The group agrees on the importance of maintaining boundaries and self-awareness, half-jokingly referencing doom-scrolling as a shared human weakness.

  “It's fascinating. Like a car crash, except we’re in the car, right?” — (A, 34:54)

10. End-of-Show Taste Recommendations

• Padma: Frankenstein (film) for its costumes and performances:

  “It's just a masterclass in filmmaking. It's a different kind of AI. It's actual intelligence.” (B, 36:30)

• Vinson: Baby by Dijon (album):

  “If you haven’t heard this album, it’s the best. Go get it.” (C, 35:43)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On taste vs. pickiness:

  “A person who has taste has it because they're willing to try many things. And a person who's picky has no taste because they don't want to try anything.” (B, 14:34)

• On the emotional power of food:

  “There's so much emotion and history and personal narrative in that one little cookie or chicken leg or, you know, tamale, whatever.” (B, 24:28)

• On public criticism:

  “It's not so much what you say, but how you say it. And I think it's very important to look someone in the eye when you're critiquing them because it shows that you stand by your opinion.” (B, 18:09)

• On comedy:

  “It turns out my taste in comedy is really crass and really dirty.” (B, 29:04)

• On advice for cultivating taste:

  “Develop your palate by eating, by traveling, by exposure and proximity to the thing that you want to learn.” (B, 31:43)

• On AI content:

  “It's fascinating. Like a car crash, except we’re in the car, right?... I don't know that I can say that it's actually good. Like, it's something else.” (A, 34:54)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Padma on Defining Good Taste: 06:25
• Early Influences — Childhood and India: 07:14
• First Impressions of New York, Halloween: 08:57
• The Difference Between Taste and Pickiness: 14:14
• Criticism Philosophy and Top Chef: 17:03
• Transition to Documentary-style Storytelling: 21:55
• Food as Memory & Identity: 24:28
• Discussion of AI Content and Taste: 32:28
• Audience Taste Recommendations: 35:32
• Padma’s Film Recommendation: 35:54

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Conclusion

This episode weaves personal anecdote, thoughtful critique, and lively audience participation into an insightful meditation on taste — artistic, culinary, personal, and communal. Padma Lakshmi emerges as a figure whose journey—across continents and disciplines—demonstrates that true taste comes from curiosity, wide exposure, empathy, and a willingness to be both vulnerable and exacting. The Critics at Large hosts match her candor and wit, making for a rich, memorable conversation on the values, pleasures, and challenges of being a person of taste in a rapidly changing world.

Transcript

[A]

How you doing? Woo. Hey, guys.

[B]

Hello.

[C]

Thank you so much for being here. Hello, everybody. I'm Vincent Cunningham. I'm a staff writer at the New Yorker, and very crucially to your attendance here, a co host of the Critics at Large podcast. And if you couldn't tell already, listeners, we're coming to you live from the New Yorker Festival. This is Critics at Large, a podcast from the New Yorker. I'm Vincent Cunningham.

[D]

I'm Alex Schwartz.

[A]

And I'm Nomi Frye.

[C]

Each week on this show, we make sense of what's happening in the culture and how we got here.

[D]

And this week we're sharing a conversation we had live on stage at the New Yorker Festival just a couple of weeks ago.

[A]

Yes, every year we get to do a version of the show in front of an audience of New Yorker fans, subscribers, what have you. And this year we got to have a conversation about taste with producer, writer and host Padma Lakshmi.

[C]

So today we're sharing it with all of you so that listeners who weren't able to make it to the festival can still be part of the fun. And by the way, if you were there, shout out to you. Thank you as always, enjoy. We're going to be joined in just a minute by the incredible Padma Lakshmi. Padma, yes. Padma is an Emmy nominated producer, a television host, a food expert, and a New York Times best selling author. Padma served as a host and an executive producer for 19 seasons of the Amazing Top Chef, which was nominated for 47 Emmy Awards during her tenure. That's a lot of Emmy nominations.

[D]

It's so many Emmys.

[C]

Her newest project is a show called America's Culinary cup for cbs. Basically, as you know, Padma is a fixture not only of food culture, but really culture writ large. And we're so happy to have her here with us today. Guys, like what, what's the Padma verse that really speaks to you?

[A]

I mean, she's a judge. She's a famous, famous judge, you know, was such a fixture on Top Chef. She was like part of our, you know, kind of ambient TV culture for so long. 19 seasons, as you said.

[D]

You know, I was always a little bit terrified of Padma from Top Chef, which I think is an appropriate reaction to have to her because she's exacting and she is a person of great taste and judgment. Then I watched Taste the Nation and I was like, oh, there's a whole other side to this wonderful person. You know, I think probably a lot of people in this room have seen Taste the Nation. It's the show where Padma goes around the the United States and travels to different communities and learns about a lot of cultural, very specific cultural cooking in different places around the country. And it's a beautiful show.

[C]

And sort of riding on the wind of that beautiful show is the new. You can't really just call it a cookbook. It's a cookbook and also a collection of essays. It's called Padma's All American. It's based on all of the people and recipes that she encountered on Taste the Nation. And the book shares all kinds of home recipes from many families, third culture, families across as is implicated in the title, the Nation. And when we were thinking about what we could talk to Padma about, we were just circling this idea of taste, not just in the culinary sense, but of course she has a lot to say about that. But Padma is just a person of exquisite taste in everything that she does. And so we want to talk to her as critics, people who on some level are life, our livelihoods are taste. We wanted to talk to her about being a person of discerning taste in all the many prongs of her life and career. Why do you guys think taste matters so much right now? What is the. I don't know, it just feels like such a grounding force for me. What's the deal about taste today?

[D]

Well, because I think taste is. It gives these two connecting points between your individuality and then a bigger collective that you're part of. You know, your taste defines you. What you love to watch, the way you want to dress, what you like to eat. These things come to us from external sources and then we take them and we make them our own. And when we find people who click with us, who's like, maybe you all like the same podcast for some reason, whatever, right? Maybe you're in a room of people and you look around and you realize that you all enjoy listening to the same show every Thursday or whatever it might be, you feel plugged into something bigger. And I really think that we all feel very atomized right now. And that kind of double edged thing about taste where it can distinguish you but it can also connect you. I think that's what got us excited because that's what we love doing on the show.

[A]

Yeah, and I think too, I mean, we. Just a couple days ago, a new episode of our podcast came out and it was about AI. And I think one of the things that we were discussing and thinking about, and I think it's something that's bothering a lot of people right now, is thinking about how the concept of taste and what makes good art and good life is under attack right now. And it makes sense to try and figure out and retain what's good about everything around us, to kind of separate the wheat from the chaff, so to speak, the gems from the slop. And so I think everything we see around us is kind of a call to arms to think about why taste matters.

[C]

Beautifully said. We're going to talk about all of that and more right now. Without further ado, join me in welcoming our guest, the incredibly talented host, writer, producer, Padma Lakshmi.

[B]

Thank you so much.

[C]

So let's kind of just start by jumping straight into the deep end, and we'll sort of weigh it our way out. What do you think, Padma, it means to have good taste?

[B]

I think it means to know good from bad, pleasurable versus punishing in some cases, to your palate, to your eyes, to your sense of propriety in many cases. And it's very subjective, but I also think in certain cases, it's like what that judge says about porn. It's hard to explain, but everyone knows when they see it.

[A]

It's true. It's something that's hard to define, certainly. But I'm wondering if over the course of your life, I mean, this is kind of a big question, but like, your journey through life, I mean, can you think, when you stop and think about it, the development of your own tastes? Like, do you remember how it started?

[B]

I think my grandmother was really good at helping me develop my palate. And when I was young, I always was excited about trying all these things that you wouldn't normally give to children. You know, very spicy foods, pickles, chilies, all these things. And for me, my sense of taste is very attached to my physical senses first and foremost. And so I think that's. Those are my earliest memories. And also, you know, in India, when women wear saris, there's a hunt for that perfect blouse to match the saris. Because we all get our sari blouses tailored. And so I spent a lot of time sifting through a lot of fabrics with various aunts and being dragged to these beautiful textile stores. There's a beautiful store in Chennai called Nalli. And you go there and it's got reams and, you know, just like bolts and bolts and bolts from floor to ceiling, room after room, floor after floor of these beautiful colors, these saturated silks and cottons. And I think just being able to see color, differentiating nuances, subtle nuances in the color blue and how there are millions of shades of blue. And in my way, in A very rudimentary way. I learned, you know, sort of at the hem of my grandmother sari, so to speak.

[C]

You've spoken a lot about coming to this country at the age of 4 years old. And also you're. I think of you as a great New Yorker, someone who loves this city precisely because of that sort of excess of things to see and taste and touch. Do you remember your first impressions of New York and whether that contributed to this thing that we're talking about? Like, how do you developed what mattered to you?

[B]

I remember arriving at jfk. I came as an unaccompanied minor. My mother was there and she had this crocheted blanket over her arm. I think she was afraid I was going to be cold. I came at this time of year. I came on Halloween night. I arrived and I remember going home and my mom had a big plate of candies and I thought they were for me, to welcome me. And then the doorbell kept ringing and these very garishly dressed children, you know, and people kept coming and they kept opening their bags and my mother kept emptying that plate of candy into their bags. And I thought, you know, wow, America, this magical land where all you have to do is put some weird clothes on and people give you candy. Too true.

[C]

Too true.

[B]

Yeah. And so she explained the holiday of Halloween, and it still remains my favorite holiday because I feel like it's the day, you know, speaking of taste, where you don't actually have to exercise your taste. And you can be as monstrous or garish or, you know, if you're a teenage girl, slutty as you want, nobody says anything. And I think that freedom of expression, even as a four year old, made an impression on me.

[C]

Interestingly though, this Halloween thing, it kind of makes me curious about, obviously an early part of your development as a public person, which is being a model seems a lot like this sort of putting forward, whether it be clothes or other things. And the point of it being other people sort of apprehending you and projecting their tastes onto you. I imagine that that also was an education in aesthetics and taste as well.

[B]

It was also an education in torture. Because as a model, you have no power. You know, you're just a mannequin and you're there to sell the clothes. It's a business. And there are these flashes of wonder and joy where you shoot with a great photographer or a wonderful editor who's really very imaginative and you do extraordinary work. But mostly it's just doing what people tell you, standing where they tell you and faking like you feel sexy when you're really just itchy, you know, or cold or too hot. But it was. It is a challenge, and it taught me a lot. I mean, modeling also afforded me the ability to travel as a young person in a way that I would have never had the resources to do.

[D]

Will you tell us a little bit more about what travel brought to you? Because I think it's an interesting question in general, and clearly it's had so much influence on how you see the world and yourself in the world. And also when we do talk about taste, I think sometimes there's this idea that it's a very fixed thing. And instead, I really think it's much more of, like an educational experience because you have to encounter new things to know what you like, what you don't like, to have a broader view of life in the world.

[B]

The more you live and the more you travel and the more you educate yourself and learn, the more expansive your taste becomes, your sense of taste. But also, hopefully, the better it becomes. You know, I mean, I think the best thing that happened to me was all that travel. And because I was an immigrant in this country, I was always straddling two different cultures, two different points of view, and traveling afforded me that. It first of all gave me an education. I mean, I had a good education in spices because of where I come from in South India and my own food culture. But then it was really after college when I had the chance to travel through Europe where I learned about European cooking technique. And before then, I was never. I could never afford to go to those restaurants. Little did I know they even existed. I didn't know what an amuse bouche was or a tasting menu. Now 13 year olds, you know, talk to me about it as I'm hailing a cab. And I think that's because of Top Chef. But I think travel is the same single most important thing you can do as a young person. However far you can get in whatever way you can go before you have a really serious job or a family that ties you to one place. You know, I lived in Italy for six years. I also lived in France for two of those years. I sort of went back and forth between Milan and Paris. And so I think it really opened my eyes. And I didn't grow up like that. You know, my mother's a nurse, My stepfather's a plumber. And when I first got to Paris, I had no money and I was doing very low rung modeling. But my theater professor was on sabbatical in Paris with his family. And I had worked as a work study student with his wife, who was head of the costume department. I was a theater major. And so they just took pity on me, and I moved out of the model's apartment, which was five girls, to two rooms, onto their couch, which was a vast step up. And Michael, my old professor, loved to. And through Michael, I learned a lot about French food and French culture. So little by little, I just hoarded all the information I could get because I was interested in it. I didn't even know what lay ahead of me.

[C]

Yeah, we have a question from the audience. What's the difference? I've never thought about this in this way. What's the difference between someone with taste and someone who's picky?

[D]

Oh, man, that's a great question.

[C]

Pickiness, I think, about food, but other, you know, what's the difference?

[B]

The difference is a person who has taste has it because they're willing to try many things. And a person who's picky has no taste because they don't want to try anything.

[D]

Yeah, I think that's right, because pickiness is much more about what you do not like and you do not like.

[C]

Most and will not try.

[D]

You know, I don't think that my toddler has taste. Don't think that toast for dinner is taste.

[C]

I've met your son, and, you know, I beg to differ, but continue.

[A]

I mean, it gives. It gives itself to blandness. When you have a picky child, it's not because he only likes to eat, like, the most exquisite kind of spice. You know, he wants to.

[D]

I mean, I'm sure in New York there is, like, a caviar child.

[A]

I mean, that's also annoying.

[D]

And it's like caviar again.

[C]

He'll be featured in next week's episode, I'm sure.

[A]

Yes. Yeah.

[C]

Stick around for more of our conversation with Padma Lakshmi live at the New Yorker Festival. That's right after the break.

[E]

What the hell is going on right now? And why is it happening like this? At Wired, we're obsessed with getting to the bottom of those questions on a daily basis, and maybe you are, too. I'm Katie Drummond, the global editorial director of Wired, and I'm hosting our new podcast series, the Big Interview. Each week, I'll sit down with some of the most interesting, provocative, and influential people who are shaping our right now. Big Interview conversations are fun. I want a shark that. That eats the Internet, that turns it all off unfiltered and unafraid. So in a lot of ways I.

[D]

Try to be an antidote to the unimaginable faucet of reactionary content that you see online. To the best of my ability, every.

[E]

Week, we're going to offer you the ultimate luxury of our times. Meaning and context. True or false. You, Brian Johnson, the man sitting across from me, one day at six some point, as of yet undefined, in the future, you will die. False. Tell me more. Listen to the big interview right now in the same place you find WIRED's Uncanny Valley podcast. Subscribe or follow wherever you get your podcasts.

[C]

We are all critics, which means that we often exercise our taste and sometimes our judgments in public. And you have done this on Top Chef, and you're going to do it again in America's Culinary Cup. Is there, like, a philosophy that you have of how to render judgments of other people's work in public?

[A]

Right. Because for us, we do it, and.

[C]

Then people just hate us, and that's fine.

[D]

You mean, like, you're not looking someone in the eye?

[A]

We're not looking someone in the eye.

[D]

You looked a lot of people in the eye.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[D]

We told them to pack up their.

[A]

Knives, and I would imagine. Yeah. Like Vincent says, it's like, how was it also a learning curve for you from beginning to be that and then over the course of 19 seasons?

[B]

No, I mean, I'm a pretty opinionated bitch at the best of times. I'm not short of opinions on anything. I try to keep them to myself, unless I am actually an expert or someone asks. And I also had a lot of. I had a lot of evidence about what not to do based on the people who are sitting next to me at times.

[D]

Okay, can you say more about.

[C]

Please say more about that.

[B]

It's not so much what you say, but how you say it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And I think it's very important to look someone in the eye when you're critiquing them because it shows that you stand by your opinion, and it's very easy to answer your question. The way that I always approach my work on Top Chef and now on America's Culinary cup is I'm interested in giving you information that's useful. I'm not interested in berating you or attacking you personally. I assume that you are as serious about your work as I am about your work. I always try to be constructive in my criticism. I don't ever say I don't like this. If you watch me on that show, I say, what could make it better, what I don't think worked. Why I Don't think it worked and what it felt like to eat it. Because unlike other competition shows that have to do with craft, whether it's Drag Race or any, you know, American Idol, the Voice, or even Project Runway, you can see the clothes. You can see the models walk on the clothes. You can see them dance. You can hear them sing. But on Top Chef, you're really relying on us to give you a vicarious experience, to describe what we are eating, what the mouth feel is like, is it spicy enough? Is it balanced? Is it greasy? Does it make you want to take another bite? Does it remind you of your grandma's rugula? Whatever it is, you know? And so I see my job as helping. I see my job as the person in the kitchen that you would say, does this need a little salt? And you want constructive criticism. If you are a good friend, you tell that person the truth in a kind way that will help them. You know, I want my friends to tell me what they really think, because I want them to make me better, because I want to be better. And I assume that you want to be better, too.

[D]

That is exactly what I'm going to tell anybody who is pissed about a bad review that I've written.

[C]

I want you to be better.

[D]

I want you to be better. I do really relate to that, though. I think that very often. You know, it's an interesting question about negative criticism. I'm sure we've all gotten it, because, of course, there is criticism that is done from spite or from jealousy and all kinds of negatively motivated things. But I think that really is the root of good negative criticism. It's. I want this to be better, and it could be. And in some ways, it's an affront that it's not. Maybe.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I also think, you know, you do it in the written word or on your podcast. I do it on television. There is an element of entertainment to that, you know, so there's a. There is a way to deliver that information that's also witty and entertaining, you know, funny or erudite or illuminating, what have you. But it has to be true in order for that to work.

[A]

So we're talking about judgment on a show like Top Chef, on your new show that's coming up. But then, of course, you have Taste the Nation and your new cookbook, which is a different kind of project, right, where you go and you explore and you talk to people and you taste, perhaps with a different. It's not that your taste changes, but your intention, you know, and your transmission of what you want to say is different? How is that for you transitioning from this mode of judgment or critique to this other mode of maybe exploration or investigation and more of a sharing?

[B]

It's great. I mean, there's more of me in Taste the Nation than any other project I've done. And that was the first time that I got to make all the decisions and really make all of the editorial choices. So if you're, you know, it's only a 30 minute show, so if you're seeing it, it means I think it's worthy of being featured. I have so many great field producers who worked with me on that show, and we all took a really serious proprietorship over that show because the mission of that show was really important. And the mission of the book goes deeper than we had time for in the show. But it is very much the same. It's sort of the last seven years of my life in food, and it's five years traveling all over America for eight months a year, you know, road by road, city by city, and really finding what I thought was important to bring to a larger audience. People in those communities, of course, knew about them. You know, it wasn't some big discovery, but it was just a way to build community between Americans in a positive way. And everybody likes to talk about food. So it's also a gentle way in to talk about some more serious things. And, you know, the title is a play obviously on Face the Nation, and it's really a cultural, anthropological, political show masquerading as a food show. It's not a lifestyle show. Right. You're not going to learn where the coolest trendy place is, that there's a line down the block. You're going to learn about some abuelita who's making Amazonian tamales that many Peruvians don't even know about, but should.

[D]

You know, one thing that really strikes me about Taste the Nation is how you're going to all these different cultural communities. And what you see again and again is how much pride is wound up in this question of taste. And I wonder if, you know, you could talk a little bit about what you saw with that, because it just. People get their taste in many cases by inheritance, and then they expand it. They expand it because in a place like America, taste glides. You know, in big cities you start eating foods. You know, you say in the introduction to your cookbook that gochujang and all these other foods, you know, are just part of the American pantry these days in a way that they certainly weren't when I was young, but this. This idea of pride and taste I just found in your work to be really intertwined. So I'm just curious to hear about that, if that struck you as well when you were traveling around.

[B]

I think people were really interested in sharing their culture through their food. And everybody will talk to you about, you know, their mother's casserole or their aunties, you know, barbecue or whatever it is. And everybody has that recipe or that dish that's so important to them from childhood that they love. There's also biological reasons to that. You know, where your sense of taste, well, your sense of smell, your olfactory sense is a lot of your sense of taste. And where that is housed in your brain is very, very close to where emotional memory is also stored. Which is why when you have something from your childhood, you know, it's that Prousti and Madeline thing, right, where you're transported immediately. And I think people want to share that because there's. There's so much emotion and history and personal narrative and in that one little cookie or chicken leg or, you know, tamale, whatever. And I think it was very important to us to have people tell us their own stories and really tell us who they were, rather than me tell the audience. I'm just the conduit. But I think what I wanted to do is show how beautiful and how delicious the diversity of American food and American culture is. And I just wanted to do it in a positive way, which wasn't wagging one's finger at others, but saying, actually, the thing that you're afraid of is the thing that's the most beautiful about our country.

[A]

I think it's really about specificity. I think that that's what kind of tells the show apart, because it's. All of these topics can seem quite abstract, right? It's like this great nation is made up of many different people, et cetera, et cetera. But then you actually, you're meeting with people. It's about humanism and it's about specificity. And that's where the food comes in as well. Because what is more specific than the taste of a particular spice or herb that kind of, like, can stand in for a culture?

[C]

Padma's really good at hosting and producing, but recently she started performing in an entirely new medium comedy. That's after another break on Critics at Large from the New Yorker.

[D]

It's one of Britain's most notorious crimes, the killing of a wealthy family at White House Farm. But I got a tip that the story of this Famous case might be all wrong.

[E]

I know there's going to be a.

[C]

Twist one day, a massive twist at.

[D]

Every level of the criminal justice system. There's been a cover up in this case. I'm Heidi Blake. Blood Relatives is a new series from in the Dark and the New Yorker. Find it now in the in the Dark podcast feed.

[C]

Anyway, Padma Lakshmi, you are increasingly, as reported in our magazine by our illustrious colleague Helen Rosner, a budding comedian.

[B]

Very budding. Emphasis on the bud. And budding.

[C]

Very budding. And I would love to hear from you whether as a public figure engaging in a new art form, whether that has given you yet another opportunity to reflect on your own taste and whether that journey is taking you somewhere else with this new endeavor.

[B]

Absolutely. First of all, it's terrifying because when you are well known, you don't get to fail in private, you know, so that sucks. But on the other hand, I have very little to lose, you know, So, I mean, I say things in my standup that I would never say in an interview in the New Yorker or even on my social media. But, you know, in that agreement that you have with the audience in a comedy space, or at least that you're supposed to have, it's miraculous, it's freeing, it's exhilarating and terrifying. It allowed me to say things and think about things from a new angle. And I'm still, as I say, learning. And it's fun. I mean, it turns out my taste in comedy is really crass and really dirty.

[A]

What are some of your favorites?

[B]

Like, I mean, I like really old, old Richard Pryor stuff. Like, you can watch, you can find it on YouTube. It's like way before any of the comedy specials. And it's strange. And you can actually see him thinking of the joke and where to go in the moment. And I do think there's something about being off the cuff, but there's also something about being incredibly prepared. I think what I like in comedy is the same thing that I liked about the Runway. It is a very immediate, visceral give and take between you and the audience. And you can feel what's working and what's not. You know, I've literally, I can count on my fingers on probably one hand almost the amount of times I've done standup. But I, you know, I take offense to the New Yorker outing me in an almost 7,000 word article that the headline was, you know, walks into a bar, which, you know, is kind of genius on Helen's part, but a comic needs to perform. You Know, it's like a player needs to play.

[A]

Right? You're supposed to do open mics every night, right?

[B]

Or, I mean, open mics, huh? Okay, here's why I hate open mics. Because I'm not, like, person off the street trying her hand at comedy or, you know, a writer trying to work out new material. I'm that lady from Top Chef who thinks she's funny now. And so I get up there, and people are like, what? They get confused. And then I sort of explain it, and that takes two of my six minutes away from me, and then it's not funny anymore because I've lost the energy, you know, so it's mortifying. But I sort of like that about it.

[D]

Well, I guess if you don't expose yourself ruthlessly to the judgment of the public, how will you grow? Exactly.

[B]

I want to be better.

[A]

You want to be better.

[C]

Do you have advice for people who want to cultivate their sense of taste?

[B]

Yes. I mean, I mentor a few young women. I remember this woman who was just out of college. You know, she sort of bounded up to me and she said, I want to do exactly what you do. And I just got out of college, and I have a blog, and I'm a critic, too, and I'm taking hosting lessons. And I said, well, first of all, quit those right away and save your money. And I. Hosting lessons? I don't know. She lives in Hollywood. I don't know what to tell you, but what is that? They have lessons for every insecurity you have in Los Angeles.

[C]

Toastmasters. But for.

[B]

Yeah, you can pay someone to teach you how not to be afraid of anything. But the thing I told her to do, in a nutshell, was to develop her palate by eating, by traveling, by exposure and proximity to the thing that you want to learn. I didn't even know there was a whole food world of fine dining, because I'd never been exposed to it. I mean, my family and I went out to eat twice a month, you know, once for pizza and once for either Chinese or Thai. Other than that, it was dal and rice every single day. That was all we ate. And that's pretty much, you know, how it is still today in my mom's house.

[C]

That was baked chicken for me. Baked chicken and chicken livers. Big thing in my. I have a coming in.

[A]

She was good.

[C]

She was pretty good.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Here's another great question from the audience, and maybe we can all take a stab at this one. This is really good. We talked about AI on a recent episode. I Tried not to get too mad about it, and I failed. But this is an angle that we hadn't considered. On the subject of taste, the audience member says, I'm regularly fed some of the most abhorrent AI slop on Instagram Reels and TikTok that you could possibly imagine. I've gotten to the point where I actually am starting to consider it transgressive art. This is. Whoever you are, a poet, whoever you are, I find beauty in just how vapid and stimulating it is. Is it possible to have good enough taste? Assuming other than my fixation on this AI slop I have okay, taste, that you can justify anything as tasteful or, and this is maybe to the point, am I losing my mind? Would anybody like to take a stab at it? I don't think you're losing your mind. I just think maybe take a step away from TikTok for a second is my thing.

[D]

You are, but it's okay. So are we all. We're really all in the same boat?

[E]

Yeah.

[D]

So you're talking about, like, the Overton Window of taste. Basically, there's something that seemed totally unacceptable and you wouldn't go near it, becomes through exposure increasingly. Okay, I mean, I get what you're saying about the AI Slop. I think that actually is a very common experience of it. In preparation for our episode, we didn't even talk about this. I watched a whole, like, AI, you know, generated comedy series of comedy clips.

[B]

That is it Funny.

[D]

It didn't do anything for me, but I think it's very. In this zone of.

[C]

It was an ungodly monstrosity.

[D]

Yeah. Vincent. I'm trying to give the benefit of the doubt to the new. And Vincent is trying to keep me, you know, on the path of truth and righteousness.

[C]

I only want the best for you.

[D]

Which.

[A]

Thank you.

[D]

Which I appreciate. I guess the question is, where does it lead you? You don't know yet. So proceed. Proceed. What are we supposed to do? We're supposed to stand up here and shake our finger and say, no, go look at a tree. You should do that anyway. But see where it leads you. See where it leads you and how it does change you and your taste. That's what I would say. And see how it interacts with the things, you know, you love. And definitely limit your time on the algorithm. You have to.

[A]

I mean, I think it's transgressive in the same way we can say that Trump is trans. Transgressive. You know what I mean? Like, when something is so abhorrent that it's certainly interesting. You know, it certainly, like, makes you look.

[B]

It's fascinating.

[A]

It's fascinating. And it's fascinating. Like a car crash, except we're in the car, Right? It's. It's like. It's rubbernecking. You know, it's. I understand that impulse, and there's something about the vulgarity of it that tickles one's fancy, I guess, but I don't know that it. I can say that it's actually good. Like, it's something else.

[D]

We have to see the slop. That's it. We have to see the slop and look at the slop and evaluate the slop. Because maybe the slop is beautiful. Maybe, you know, some bizarre generation. You see something bizarre and weird.

[C]

Okay, we got one minute, and I do want to use that time. Is there one thing that you're listening to, watching anything right now that exemplifies your taste?

[B]

Shit, that's a loaded question.

[C]

While you think, for me, it is the album Baby by Dijon. If you haven't heard this album, it's the best. Go get it. What about you?

[B]

I've been in a vortex of filming, so I've had a lot of really great food that I can't talk about. I just saw Frankenstein. Everybody go out and see Frankenstein. It's. It is a masterpiece. The costumes and the art direction and the script, it's beautiful. And Mia Goth and Jacob Elordi and Oscar Isaac are great in it. But, you know, what I love about it is that even though Mia Goth has a supporting role, all of her lines are the best lines. And she's not just like, you know, sort of the woman going, eek. Watch out, honey.

[A]

You know?

[B]

And she's got these gorgeous, gorgeous costumes made by Kate Hawley. And it's just a masterclass in filmmaking. It's a different kind of AI. It's actual intelligence.

[D]

Here's to that.

[B]

Amazing.

[D]

Yeah.

[C]

And this experience has been amazing.

[B]

Thank you for having me.

[D]

Thank you so much.

[C]

That is all we have time for. Thank you, Padma, for this wonderful conversation. And, of course, of course, thank you all for being with us. Thank you so much. Thank you for your support of this festival and for our magazine, It Matters. Thank you so much from all of us at the New Yorker. We hope you have a wonderful night. Thank you. Good night. This has been critics at Large, live and in person. This week's episode was produced by Michelle o'. Brien. Alex Barish is our consulting editor. Our executive producer is Stephen Valentino. Conde Nast's head of Global audio who was in the front row at this show, by the way, is Chris Bannett. Alexis Quadrado composed our theme music and we had engineering help today from James Yost with mixing by Mike Kutchman. You can find every episode of Critics at [e-mail] Critics.

[E]

I'm Katie Drummond. I'm Wired's global editorial director.

[C]

I'm Michael Colori, Wired's director of consumer, Tech and Culture.

[D]

And I'm Lauren Good. I'm a senior correspondent at Wired. And our show, Uncanny Valley is all about the people, power and influence of Silicon Valley.

[E]

At Wired, we're constantly reporting on how technology is changing every aspect of our lives. So each week on the show, we get together to talk about one of the biggest stories in tech, right?

[C]

So whether we're talking about privacy, AI.

[E]

Social media, or a major tech figure.

[C]

We will always explain the Silicon Valley forces behind these stories and how they affect you.

[E]

Make sure you're following Uncanny Valley in your podcast app of choice so you don't miss an episode.

[B]

From PRX.