Critics at Large | The New Yorker
Episode: Gossip, Then and Now
Release Date: April 3, 2025

Gossip, Then and Now delves deep into the ubiquitous yet often misunderstood phenomenon of gossip. Hosts Alex Schwartz, Vincent Cunningham, and Nomi Frye navigate through personal anecdotes, historical contexts, literary examples, and the transformative impact of technology on how we gossip today. This comprehensive discussion not only explores the multifaceted nature of gossip but also examines its ethical implications and evolving dynamics in the modern era.

Introduction to Gossip

The episode opens with the hosts acknowledging gossip as a universal human activity, integral to our interactions across various spheres—be it work, friendships, or romantic relationships.

Alex Schwartz introduces the topic by emphasizing the need to understand gossip not just from a personal standpoint but through a broader cultural lens:

"We're talking about universal things today. This topic is about as universal as it gets. It's something we all do."
[03:27]

Nomi Frye and Vincent Cunningham share their personal views, with Nomi admitting her love for gossip while clarifying she doesn't see herself as malicious:

"I have to admit, I just gotta come clean. Love gossip."
[03:49]

Vincent reflects on his own relationship with gossip, highlighting the dichotomy between being a gossiper and the one being gossiped about:

"I'm deficient in whatever quality it is that makes people want to tell me gossip. So I often feel outside of it."
[04:07]

Defining Gossip and Its Evolution

Alex Schwartz discusses her recent piece in The New Yorker, which reviews Kelsey McKinney's book You'd Didn't Hear This from Me: Mostly True Notes on Gossip. She grapples with defining gossip, contrasting it with mere conversation or professional discourse.

Alex Schwartz explores the origins and transformation of the word "gossip":

"Originally, this is the origin of the word. It meant someone who you were connected to by baptism... someone who you'd be so close with that you would share intimate details."
[22:24]

Nomi Frye adds historical context by discussing the Jewish prohibition on gossip, known as lashon hara:

"Lashon hara means lashon is tongue. Hara is evil, is evil."
[22:26]

The hosts trace the negative connotations of gossip back to biblical narratives, particularly focusing on Eve from the Old Testament, who is often portrayed as the archetype of destructive female gossip:

"Eve has been used as this prototype of loose talk by women for centuries."
[20:54]

Gossip in Literature and Media

The conversation shifts to literary examples, highlighting how gossip has been depicted and its consequences.

Alex Schwartz references Edith Wharton's The House of Mirth and A Custom of the Country to illustrate contrasting portrayals of gossip:

"In the first one, gossip is just a force of destruction... eight years later, we get the shameless Undine Sprague who wants to be gossiped about."
[33:57]

Nomi Frye discusses modern television portrayals, citing Real Housewives of Beverly Hills and Gossip Girl as contemporary reflections of gossip's role in regulating social dynamics:

"The line between private and public is very... very muddy."
[36:23]

Vincent Cunningham introduces Zora Neale Hurston's Moses, Man of the Mountain as a nuanced literary exploration of gossip:

"It illuminates the two sides of rumors... gossip is always kind of dancing between truth and lies."
[29:32]

The Impact of Technology on Gossip

A significant portion of the discussion centers on how digital advancements have transformed the landscape of gossip.

Alex Schwartz highlights platforms like Deuxmoi on Instagram, which facilitate the rapid dissemination of celebrity gossip:

"Anyone is fodder for public conversation. Just being in public makes you potentially fodder for gossip."
[34:57]

The hosts express concerns about privacy erosion in the digital age, where sharing and spreading gossip has become effortless and instantaneous.

Nomi Frye references how technology blurs ethical lines, making private moments public:

"Is everyone fair, fair game? And in the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills... you don't bring up my husband for everybody to know."
[37:37]

Vincent Cunningham discusses the evidentiary nature of modern gossip, where leaks and screenshots bridge the gap between rumor and news:

"The evidentiary nature of many of our technologies leads to a lot of this."
[38:22]

Ethical Considerations and Personal Boundaries

The episode delves into the moral implications of gossip, questioning what constitutes ethical versus harmful gossip.

Alex Schwartz and Nomi Frye debate the responsibilities of individuals when engaging in gossip, emphasizing the importance of trust and discretion:

"The people you gossip with need to be vetted. It has to be people you trust. And another thing that's important, if someone asks you not to share something, be a vault."
[44:18 - 45:20]

They explore the fine line between gossip and news, using examples like Barack and Michelle Obama's rumored split, which transitioned from mere gossip to widely discussed news:

"It was the first person this happened to. Me too ... her fate became public."
[40:39]

Vincent Cunningham brings up Linda Tripp’s role in the Monica Lewinsky scandal as a case study of gossip crossing ethical boundaries:

"She was told something in confidence that was definitely bad, but she's kind of a bad guy because she secretly recorded and then made it everybody's business."
[42:40 - 43:09]

Gossip as a Social Regulator and Empowerment Tool

Despite its negative aspects, the hosts acknowledge gossip's role in social regulation and empowerment, especially for marginalized groups.

Alex Schwartz references the MeToo movement, where gossip-like whisper networks became instrumental in exposing systemic abuses:

"Those things spurred on by the kind of social explosion of people standing up in that ice barticas way and saying, me too."
[42:16]

Nomi Frye concurs, noting how informal networks can challenge power structures:

"Gossip can be an empowering force because information can be shared that might not otherwise be shared among people who are vulnerable to power's abuses."
[42:16]

Conclusion: Navigating the Future of Gossip

In wrapping up, the hosts reflect on the complexities of gossip in contemporary society, balancing its intrinsic human nature with the challenges posed by modern technology.

Alex Schwartz muses on the future, pondering whether we are equipped to handle the amplified reach of gossip:

"I do worry about a world in which that privacy is compromised for everybody and you are just potentially gossip fodder for millions."
[35:27]

Nomi Frye emphasizes the need for ethical guidelines, advocating for responsible gossip practices:

"The people you gossip with need to be vetted. It has to be people you trust."
[44:52]

The episode concludes with the hosts acknowledging their own conflicted feelings about gossip, aiming to further unravel its implications in upcoming discussions.

Notable Quotes:

• Alex Schwartz on defining gossip:
  "Gossip is something that we all do. We all do it."
  [05:40]

• Vincent Cunningham on secrets and lies in gossip:
  "Gossip is always kind of dancing between truth and lies."
  [29:32]

• Nomi Frye on ethical boundaries:
  "If someone asks you not to share something, be a vault."
  [45:20]

This episode of Critics at Large offers a thorough exploration of gossip, encouraging listeners to reconsider its role and impact in both personal and societal contexts. Through engaging dialogue and insightful analysis, the hosts illuminate the enduring significance of gossip and its transformative journey in the digital age.