Help, I Need a Critic!

Summary

Critics at Large | The New Yorker
Episode: Help, I Need a Critic!
Release Date: October 24, 2024

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Introduction: Launching "I Need a Critic" (00:06 – 03:49)

In this special episode of Critics at Large, hosted by Vincent Cunningham, Naomi Frye, and Alexandra Schwartz, The New Yorker introduces a new interactive segment titled "I Need a Critic". This segment serves as an advice hotline where listeners can submit their cultural conundrums, and the trio offers thoughtful, analytical responses.

Vincent Cunningham humorously sets the tone:

"I'm so glad to be back for..." (00:32)

Naomi Frye elaborates on the segment's inception, highlighting the overabundance of advice in today's digital landscape:

"These days, we've reached peak advice. It's everywhere." (01:16)

Alex Schwartz concurs, noting the ubiquity of unsolicited advice across various platforms:

"Everyone's an expert. Instagram, absolutely." (01:41)

The hosts express their excitement and slight nervousness about stepping into the role of cultural advisors, setting the stage for engaging listener interactions.

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The Saturation of Advice in Modern Media (01:16 – 03:49)

The conversation pivots to the proliferation of advice in contemporary media. The hosts discuss how platforms like Instagram and TikTok have democratized advice-giving, often leading to micro-advice snippets that can both comfort and overwhelm users.

Vincent shares his personal experience as a new parent inundated with parenting tips on social media:

"It's like all of my algorithm now in a way that I find disconcerting, sometimes helpful, but sometimes anxiety-inducing." (01:47)

Alex adds a critical perspective on the commercialization of advice:

"If you write help in the comments, you will get your very own pamphlet emailed to you that hopefully will get you hooked on some other kind of paying product." (02:40)

Naomi Frye emphasizes the pervasiveness of advice and introduces the episode's interactive element:

"We're going to talk about the state of advice and we're gonna pull up our own sleeves, join the fray, and hear from all of you." (02:40)

This segment sets up the episode’s core focus: navigating the overwhelming landscape of modern advice through thoughtful, curated responses.

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Listener Call 1: Gerald’s Struggle with Disturbing Literature (04:07 – 11:00)

Gerald from Glasgow, Texas, shares his unsettling experience after reading The Witch Elm by Tana French. He expresses a reluctance to continue reading due to the disturbing revelations about human nature presented in the book.

"I kind of got this really bad feeling... I just don't want to read anymore." (05:23)

Alex connects Gerald's feelings to Tana French’s exploration of human complexity and suggests revisiting comforting literature:

"Mine is also Jane Austen... symmetry, order, hope, and comedy." (09:21)

Naomi recommends starting with Jane Austen’s Pride and Prejudice to regain a sense of wholesomeness and human connection:

"Maybe read Pride and Prejudice, go right to P and P." (09:38)

Vincent adds the suggestion of epistolary novels, emphasizing the warmth found in letter-writing:

"Reading letters because of the way that we put ourselves forward to other people." (10:21)

Gerald appreciates the advice, expressing enthusiasm for the recommendations:

"That's right. And I do think Jane Austen is a great one... Don't tell my mom." (09:23)

The hosts successfully guide Gerald towards literary avenues that can help him reconnect with positive aspects of human nature, providing a balanced approach to dealing with unsettling content.

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Listener Call 2: Adam’s Quest for Healthy Relationship Media (11:00 – 27:05)

Adam from Los Angeles, Louisiana, seeks recommendations for films and novels that depict healthy relationships, as his therapist has advised him to explore such narratives after being accustomed to stories of toxic relationships.

"I like films and novels with toxic relationships... are there even good films or good novels that depict healthy relationships?" (11:39)

Alex suggests two contemporary books that balance realistic relationships with emotional depth:

1. "The Anthropologists" by Aisha Gul Savage:
   "It's really about how you make a life together with someone else... the relationship is really loving." (13:23)

2. "Small Rain" by Garth Greenwell:
   "It's about a long-term stable relationship... wrestling with what it means to change his ways." (14:15)

Vincent recommends Jay McInerney’s Brightness Falls Trilogy, which explores the nuances of a couple building a life together amidst personal flaws:

"Russell and Karine Calloway... trying to make it in the big city." (15:52)

Naomi adds Richard Linklater's Before Trilogy (Before Sunrise, Before Sunset, Before Midnight) as an exemplary portrayal of evolving relationships through genuine conversation:

"It's about a life. It's not perfect, but it's functioning... based on conversation." (17:08)

Adam is excited by the thoughtful recommendations, indicating a strong anticipation to explore these titles:

"I'm gonna read that next. I'm so excited." (15:30)

The hosts collectively provide diverse and nuanced recommendations, emphasizing literature and film that showcase realistic and evolving relationships, aligning with Adam's therapeutic goals.

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Listener Call 3: Sophie’s Experience with Motherhood and Art (27:05 – 45:45)

Sophie from New Orleans, Louisiana, reaches out with her pregnancy experience and the associated anxiety about motherhood, particularly as an artist seeking positive representations that celebrate the magic of motherhood rather than focusing solely on its challenges.

"I'm ready to start thinking about what happens when this little human arrives... I just want to read something that says, it's gonna be beautiful and it's gonna be worth it." (21:07)

Naomi empathizes, highlighting her own experience as a mother:

"I would say that 24 is very young, and you have plenty of time still to become independent." (22:27)

Vincent humorously references Shakespeare’s Hamlet to illustrate the internal conflict of moving towards independence:

"To move out or not to move out. That is the question." (24:38)

Alex offers personal recommendations aimed at providing Sophie with uplifting and reassuring narratives:

1. "Little Labors" by Rifka Galtchin:
   "It's a very short series of observational vignettes about having a young baby... it's very funny, it's wry, it's tender." (43:51)

2. "Matrescence" by Lucy Jones:
   Explores the transformative journey of becoming a mother.

3. "Mother Artist" by Katherine Ricketts:
   Focuses on balancing artistry with motherhood.

4. "Acts of Creation" by Hedi Judah:
   Addresses the intersection of creativity and parenting.

Alex also shares an anecdote about outsourcing advice to a writer friend, illustrating the communal and supportive nature of advice-giving:

"I outsourced it. Oh. So this is why I feel prepared for this question." (43:23)

Sophie is thrilled by the recommendations and the personal touch the hosts bring to their advice:

"Absolutely. Yeah. Let us know how you're doing." (26:54)

In a heartwarming twist, Sophie reveals she is in labor, and the hosts celebrate the birth of her son, Lorenzo, further embodying the supportive and empathetic spirit of the segment.

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Reflections on Advice Giving Today (27:16 – 55:00)

As the hosts continue, they delve into a broader discussion on the current landscape of advice and the complexities involved in being public advice givers.

Vincent reflects on the historical context of advice columns, mentioning Martin Luther King Jr.’s role as an advisor:

"What we don't have today is for better and for worse, really any kind of overarching, normative ethics." (48:30)

Alex contrasts different styles of advice columns, highlighting the compassionate approach of Heather Havrilevsky at The Cut versus more judgmental tones:

"Dear sugar from the rumpus... a shot of whiskey." (32:27)

Naomi and Alex discuss the plurality of ethical perspectives in modern society, attributing the overwhelming amount of available advice to the diverse ways of living:

"Each of us is sort of alien to the terms of the other... creates this big sort of 3D map of how to live together." (49:22)

Alex emphasizes the importance of personal connection in advice-giving, suggesting that effective advice should balance practicality with empathy:

"The best kind of advice givers give is a sense of personal connection. They are trusted friends, advisors, and realists." (50:42)

Vincent adds that good advice is often about navigating the existing societal structures rather than advocating for systemic change:

"How do I live in the world as it exists?... It is something very human about that." (54:34)

Naomi concludes this segment by underscoring the human aspect of advice, acknowledging the infinite possibilities and complexities within cultural advice-giving:

"Culture is the realm of infinite possibility... it involves social constraints, politics, bias." (54:11)

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Conclusion: Final Thoughts and Credits (55:00 – End)

The episode wraps up with the hosts reflecting on their experience as new advice givers, acknowledging the challenges and rewards of navigating the saturated advice landscape.

Naomi summarizes the episode’s insights:

"We are just muddling through, doing what we can, making space for ourselves at the margins." (55:00)

Vincent, Naomi, and Alex express gratitude to their listeners and encourage ongoing participation in the "I Need a Critic" segment, inviting more cultural questions via email.

The episode concludes with a brief mention of upcoming projects and credits, emphasizing the collaborative effort behind the podcast’s production.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Vincent Cunningham:
  "I'm so glad to be back for..." (00:32)
  "Good luck. Moving man." (10:26)

• Naomi Frye:
  "These days, we've reached peak advice. It's everywhere." (01:16)
  "Maybe start with Jane Austen. Maybe read like Pride and Prejudice." (09:38)

• Alex Schwartz:
  "It's not easy work." (47:24)
  "Look, it's no secret that writers, filmmakers, art makers... are drawn to the chaotic." (12:44)

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Key Takeaways

• "I Need a Critic" serves as a meaningful platform for addressing listener concerns through a cultural lens, fostering a sense of community and shared experience.

• Navigating Advice Overload: The hosts acknowledge the challenges of modern advice saturation and strive to provide thoughtful, personalized recommendations that offer solace and direction.

• Empathy and Practicality: Effective advice-giving requires a balance of empathy and practical guidance, ensuring that recommendations are both comforting and actionable.

• Cultural Reflection: The episode underscores the role of cultural narratives in shaping personal growth and societal understanding, highlighting the importance of meaningful representation in media.

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Final Notes

For those interested in further exploring these discussions or seeking personalized cultural advice, Critics at Large invites listeners to participate in the ongoing "I Need a Critic" project by reaching out via email at [e-mail].

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This summary captures the essence of the episode "Help, I Need a Critic!" from Critics at Large | The New Yorker, highlighting key discussions, recommendations, and the insightful interplay between the hosts and their listeners.

Transcript

[Vincent Cunningham]

Welcome to Critics at Large, a podcast from the New Yorker. I'm Vincent Cunningham.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm Alex Schwartz.

[Nomi Frye]

And I'm Nomi Frye. Each week on this show, we make sense of what's happening in the culture right now and how we got here. Hello.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I can't wait to figure out how we got here.

[Nomi Frye]

I mean, one day we'll figure it out.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's the theme of the whole show.

[Nomi Frye]

Guys, it's good to see you. We took a break last week. Sometimes we need a little break, but we're back better than ever.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I'm so glad to be back for.

[Nomi Frye]

A very special episode. How is it special, you might ask? Well, I'll tell you, you guys might have become aware of our forthcoming segment, I Need a Critic. The Critics at Large advice hotline. You send us your questions, we have answers. We hope we have answers. I don't know. We're gonna see. You know, you guys working on this segment, right? And thinking about it in the last couple of months, like, gearing up to do this also got us thinking about the issue of advice giving in general. I would say that these days, we've reached peak advice. It's everywhere.

[Vincent Cunningham]

So much advice.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah, wouldn't you say that, you guys? Where have you seen it?

[Alex Schwartz]

I mean, I would say we've reached peak, except there's always a higher peak to climb.

[Nomi Frye]

That's true.

[Alex Schwartz]

In this particular realm. Everyone is giving advice. Everyone is giving advice everywhere. We got it on the radio, we got it in podcasts. Here we are joining the fray. We've got it on in newspapers, magazines, online, of course.

[Nomi Frye]

TikTok.

[Alex Schwartz]

TikTok.

[Nomi Frye]

Everyone's an expert.

[Alex Schwartz]

Everyone's an expert. Instagram, absolutely. All kinds of advice givers with all kinds of specialties, but you don't need a specialty.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Longtime listeners will know. New listeners are welcome to know that I have a very young baby at home. And on Instagram, it's nothing but, like, will your baby not sleep? Will your baby do this? My baby, Your baby. It's just like, nothing. Nonstop, like, unsolicited, like little micro pieces of advice that have become so much a part of my. It's like all of my algorithm now in a way that I find disconcerting, sometimes helpful, but sometimes anxiety inducing. It, like, introduces new problems that could be going on totally.

[Nomi Frye]

That you might need to go to another expert to get advice.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's right. That's right. Should I go to the doctor? I don't care about you. Just because you're like, I don't know, well, it's right.

[Nomi Frye]

It's right here on your phone. They're talking sort of loudly, you know.

[Alex Schwartz]

And if you write help in the comments, you will get your very own pamphlet emailed to you that hopefully will get you hooked on some other kind of paying product that will help your baby sleep, eat, whatever it might be.

[Nomi Frye]

Anyway, you guys, it's a whole thing. It's a whole thing. And we're going to talk about it today. We're going to talk about the state of advice and we're gonna pull up our own sleeves, right? And join the fray and hear from all of you. Or not all of you. Hear from some of you. And we'll answer all your questions with our very own brand of cultural advice. So that's today on Critics at Large. It's the advice episod. You might have heard us a few weeks back asking for you to send us your cultural questions for a new segment. We're calling I need a Critic. This is not a one off thing. We want to be doing this for a while. So if you're inspired by what you hear today, you too can ask for our help. Send us a voice Memo with your questionsailewyorker.com with the subject line critics. And we're going to be starting out today with some live calls. Okay, shall we begin?

[Alex Schwartz]

I can't wait.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, my God, we're so. I'm feeling a little nervous.

[Alex Schwartz]

Well, what if I choke?

[Nomi Frye]

What if we choke?

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, my goodness.

[Nomi Frye]

Advice for advice for choking on a lifelong.

[Alex Schwartz]

What would it feel to be frauds?

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah, I know. It's all coming to a head right now.

[Alex Schwartz]

It's okay. Let's go in.

[Nomi Frye]

Gerald, is it you?

[Gerald]

Hello, it's me. I'm Gerald.

[Nomi Frye]

Hello, Gerald.

[Alex Schwartz]

Gerald, we're so excited to meet you.

[Nomi Frye]

We're so excited to hear you.

[Gerald]

Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to hear your voices, too. Oh, my gosh.

[Nomi Frye]

Gerald, where are you calling us from?

[Gerald]

Yeah, I live in Glasgow, but I'm from Texas.

[Nomi Frye]

Glasgow?

[Gerald]

Yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

How did that happen?

[Gerald]

I met my partner while living in France and she's from Scotland.

[Nomi Frye]

France?

[Gerald]

Yeah.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This is the most cosmopolitan shit I've ever heard of.

[Alex Schwartz]

Gerald has been all over this globe.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, my God.

[Gerald]

And I'm moving to Vietnam too, so.

[Nomi Frye]

What? Yeah, okay. I feel like you can give us some advice about how to be cosmopolitan.

[Alex Schwartz]

Very true.

[Gerald]

No, I listened to your travel episode. I actually thought your advice was great on that. You know, not be too touristy, but a little touristy.

[Nomi Frye]

Well, you know, we hope that our advice today will be helpful to you as well. What can we help you with?

[Gerald]

Okay, so a couple months ago, I read the Witch Elm by Tana French. Oh, yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay. Have you. Has any of our. I haven't read it. Vincent or Alex, have you?

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, I certainly have.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, Alex has read it.

[Alex Schwartz]

Okay, Go ahead, Gerald. We're listening.

[Gerald]

Oh, gosh. Well, it was amazing. I loved it. The writing was fantastic, and I really couldn't stop reading it. But by the end of the story, I kind of got this really bad feeling, like you learn some really disturbing things about the characters and just kind of the world they live in. And so since finishing the book, I've been so disturbed that I just don't want to read anymore.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay.

[Gerald]

Yeah. So that's my problem. Yeah.

[Alex Schwartz]

I have a few questions here, Gerald, if I may, because I am familiar with the Witch Elm. Can you. Can you put your finger on what the disturbance is? Like, is it about people? Because, yeah, the Witch Elm is kind of Tana French's books, really, which I absolutely love. I don't know if you've read other books of hers, but I especially love the series of books that she wrote that takes place in the Dublin Murder Detectives Unit. I forget exactly the technical word for what it is, but often horrible things are discovered about human nature and crime in these books.

[Gerald]

Yeah, I think the human nature part, not the crime so much. It's definitely the human nature part. I felt like there was no moral to it. It was just like, these people are so carelessly awful. My favorite book is Crime and Punishment, and it deals with, like.

[Nomi Frye]

Right. And that. That ties it up with a bow.

[Gerald]

Yeah, exactly. Is it axe murder? But, you know, there's. There's also repenting and, you know. Immoral. Yeah. So I guess the question is, how do you move on from a book that just really shakes you to your core, that really disturbs you?

[Nomi Frye]

Right, right. I totally identify with this question. I mean, I've had. I remember, for instance, as a teenager watching the movie the Panic in Needle park about two young junkies in New York. Great movie.

[Alex Schwartz]

Not what you call uplifting, but not.

[Nomi Frye]

What you call uplifting. And I was a young girl, and I was like, shit, this is, like, horrible. And I need something to help me get past this and for me. So I'll start by giving my recipe for what to do in cases like this. And I don't know if it'll fit you, Gerald, but this is what I've done in the past. I go back to the cozy. Okay. So for me, and this could very well be a reread. Okay. If you've had books that in the past have made you feel protected, made you feel the warmth of human connection, made you feel wholesome, then maybe I wouldn't go to that for a little bit. For me, it could be reading something like Jane Austen or like Barbara Pym, you know, sort of like small scale, sort of more domestic dramas. It's not like there's no conflict in them, but they're ultimately kind of reaffirming of a kind of like social contract where nothing too terrible is gonna happen. That has proved to me a kind of balm when I've been, like, too rattled by a work of art.

[Alex Schwartz]

This was gonna be my advice to you. I was gonna say I cannot advise comfort enough. And much like Naomi, a reread often does it for me, because a rich reread where you think you're going to discover, you know, you're gonna discover something new. And actually, of course, mine is also Jane Austen, basically because it, you know, to me, what the qualities you wanna seek out right now are symmetry, order, hope, and comedy.

[Nomi Frye]

Yes, that's really good.

[Gerald]

That's right. And I do think Jane Austen is a great one, though. Cause actually it's one of those ones that I. I'm so familiar with it through, like, movies and the series and everything, but I never really read the books. Don't tell my mom. But yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

So maybe start with Jane Austen. Maybe read like. Maybe read Pride and Prejudice, go right to P and P. Fantastic, Gerald.

[Alex Schwartz]

Beautiful. Vincent. We've really gone in hard with Pride and Prejudice. Do you have anything else that isn't that quickly?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Because I want you to hasten to follow this wonderful advice, Gerald. But I would say also something that helps me sort of move back from revulsion at human nature to liking human beings again, which is maybe one of the trajectories that you might need to sort of complete is reading letters because of the way that we put ourselves forward to other people. Friendship for me is always a way back from the brink.

[Gerald]

Oh, I love that. Yeah, amazing. I'll definitely try to get some epistolary sort of novels. That's great. Oh, nice.

[Nomi Frye]

We thank you for reaching out to us and putting your trust in our ability to give advice with no proven.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Good luck. Moving man.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah, good luck with everything.

[Gerald]

Can I just say, I love the show. I've been listening since the start and every week it makes it so nice. Yeah.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That means so much to us.

[Nomi Frye]

Thank you so much. Bye, Gerald. Bye.

[Gerald]

Bye.

[Nomi Frye]

Hello?

[Alex Schwartz]

Hello?

[Nomi Frye]

Adam, is that you?

[Adam]

This is Adam. Hello, critics.

[Nomi Frye]

Hey.

[Alex Schwartz]

Hi.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Hi.

[Nomi Frye]

Where are you calling us from?

[Adam]

Los Angeles, Louisiana.

[Nomi Frye]

My favorite city.

[Adam]

Although I will be in New York next week and I am going to come see you guys.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, my gosh. So that's what we like to hear.

[Alex Schwartz]

We absolutely love to hear it.

[Vincent Cunningham]

The live show.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, my God. Are you flying in on the PJ just to see us?

[Adam]

Totally.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Straight from the coast.

[Nomi Frye]

Thank you. Yeah, totally. That's the correct answer. Adam.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yes.

[Nomi Frye]

How can we help you today?

[Adam]

Okay, so my therapist had recommended that it might be good if I was to watch films or read novels that depict healthy relationships. I like films and novels with toxic relationships. I don't think want to, like, read, you know, Emily Henry or Colleen Hoover or some shit like that. Some stuff like that. And so I don't know, are there even good films or good novels that depict healthy relationships?

[Nomi Frye]

Did your therapist recommend it because of your success rate with healthy relationships?

[Adam]

Of course.

[Alex Schwartz]

We're just going there. Hope that's okay with you.

[Nomi Frye]

Sorry. Okay. What does your taste turn to usually, like, when you say you like stuff about toxic relationships? Like, can you give us a couple of examples of stuff that you've watched or read or listened to or stuff.

[Adam]

I've read this year that I love?

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah.

[Adam]

I'm reading the new Sally Rooney. Love it. The guest, Emma Cline. Loved it. I'm a fan. Loved it. My husband loved it.

[Alex Schwartz]

Adam, I got you.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay.

[Alex Schwartz]

I got you.

[Nomi Frye]

Alex, go for it.

[Alex Schwartz]

I got you. Absolutely. Look, it's no secret that writers, filmmakers, art makers, whatever, are drawn to the chaotic, the messy, the toxic, the ugly, all this stuff, because it's usually more interesting. You know, obviously Tolstoy himself did postulate that all happy families are like, all unhappy families are unhappy in different ways. And so I think the real challenge for a lot of these art forms is describing something that feels realistic but engaging, even if things are functional. I have two books for you that were published this very year that you might like.

[Adam]

I'm so excited. Let's hear it.

[Alex Schwartz]

So I loved, absolutely loved both of these books. The first one is called the Anthropologists. It's by the Turkish writer Aisha Gul Savage. It came out a few months ago.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay. And I'm listening, too, by the way. I'm, like, taking this advice as well.

[Alex Schwartz]

So the narrator is living in an unnamed city with her husband. It's a straight couple. They're trying to decide, basically, if they're going to have a kid. So they're in that Stage of life. We don't know where they're living, but they're both from other cultures, cultures that are foreign both to the city where they live and foreign to one another. And so the book is really about how you make a life together with someone else. And what is the bedrock of this book is that the relationship is really loving. But that doesn't mean that the big questions of life are easily settled.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, my God.

[Adam]

That sounds amazing.

[Alex Schwartz]

I think they're gonna like.

[Nomi Frye]

What's the other one? What's the other one?

[Alex Schwartz]

The other one is actually. Might be even better for you.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, wow.

[Alex Schwartz]

In a way. The other one is called Small Rain, and it's Garth Greenwell's new book. And I don't know if you've read other books by Garth Greenwell.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Amazing.

[Alex Schwartz]

Have you? I'm putting you on the spot.

[Adam]

I have not.

[Alex Schwartz]

So here's the thing. He loves writing about toxic relationships. His previous two books are about the most toxic relationships you can imagine, basically. And all of his books feature the same narrator. The narrator is a gay man from Kentucky who in the first book, goes and lives in Bulgaria and gets involved with a kind of street hustler and falls head over heels with someone who is absolutely, you know, not gonna lead to a happy ever after kind of ending. And in Small Rain, it's the same narrator, but the difference is that he now is in a long term stable relationship with his partner, and they've made a life together. And so he's wrestling in this book with what it kind of means to change his ways and to leave a certain version of himself behind. Can he still find adventure and pleasure and even a kind of, you know, excitement in a partnered life? What does it mean to kind of give up the unknown for the known of intimacy? And so he's really wrestling with all the things that you're mentioning right there on the page.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow.

[Alex Schwartz]

And I absolutely love this book.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow. Oh, yeah.

[Adam]

I'm gonna read that next. I'm so excited.

[Nomi Frye]

Alex, that was masterful.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That was amazing.

[Alex Schwartz]

I wanna hear what you guys have to recommend.

[Nomi Frye]

Vincent, what are your thoughts?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I have an interesting. Some books that I liked by an author that I'm still trying to figure out what I think about him. It's Jay McInerney. You might know, bright lights, big city.

[Nomi Frye]

Which is 40 years in. You're still trying to figure out.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I am. I truly am trying to figure out.

[Nomi Frye]

It's a lifelong. Figuring out the Jester is a lifelong.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It is a huge, big thing. But what I like of his Adam is this trilogy that's loosely called the Brightness Falls Trilogy. It's about this couple, Russell and Karine Calloway. So Russell and Korine are just like people trying to make it Adam in the big city, right? And they're not perfect, but they stick together. And you see them in the course of this trilogy sort of like build a life, always with the sort of specter of being ejected from Manhattan. That's like their great fear is not to be able to afford their loft in Tribeca. Right. And as vapid as that may sound, it really is a life.

[Adam]

No, I get it.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I appreciate those novels for that.

[Nomi Frye]

There are many affairs in those novels I should know.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's true.

[Nomi Frye]

In the first one, he cheats on her with Trina Cox. Do you remember that?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Trinna Cox.

[Nomi Frye]

I read the first one so many times. So many times.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's good. And then the 911 one, she has a whole like. She like, uses 911 is a pretext for her. This sounds toxic, but it's not. But then she, like, she meets this guy.

[Nomi Frye]

I know she has a long. She has a long term affair with this guy who she meets when she.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Kicked in 911 dust.

[Nomi Frye]

When she's volunteers.

[Vincent Cunningham]

She's volunteering at ground Zero. At ground Zero.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, my God, this is so crazy. Okay, I'm sorry. We might have gone together and it's.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Not a toxic matter.

[Alex Schwartz]

Are you what is called an enabler?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Because I'm an enabler, but I'm an advocate for all that is human.

[Alex Schwartz]

Okay.

[Vincent Cunningham]

These are deeply human people. The Calloways.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay, I will say, you know, we probably need to wrap up this conversation, but I will say that my suggestion for, like, again, not a perfect relationship, but like a relationship that goes on and is kind of like developing and living and so on is in the Richard Linklater's Sunset trilogy. Right? Another trilogy, right. We have like Before Sunrise, Before Sunset and Before Midnight. Ethan Hawke and Julie Delpy, a couple that meet on a train on the way to Vienna and a chance meeting, then nine years later meet again in Paris. Then nine years after that are married with kids and are on vacation in Greece. And it's basically, again, Vincent, to what you were saying. It's about a life. It's not perfect, but it's functioning. And it's based on conversation. It's based on dialogue, which I think is an example we can all look to when we think about relationships, communication. Love it. Adam, thank you so much for calling. And we can't wait to meet you at our live event next week at the New Yorker Festival.

[Adam]

Yep. See you guys at the New Yorker Fest.

[Nomi Frye]

See you soon.

[Adam]

Thanks.

[Nomi Frye]

We'll be right back to try to solve more of your cultural conundrums. This is critics at large from the New Yorker. Stick around. The Run for Evogue is where you'll meet all the most exciting people in fashion and culture. I am friendly butchering. We should be the mayor of New York.

[Alex Schwartz]

We all support that.

[Nomi Frye]

We support that. Very Nate. Nikki.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yes.

[Nomi Frye]

It's been really great being in this beautiful pink room. All right, Usher, can you hear us?

[Gerald]

I can hear you.

[Nomi Frye]

All right.

[Gerald]

Can you hear me?

[Nomi Frye]

We can.

[Lucy]

We can.

[Vincent Cunningham]

All right, here we are.

[Nomi Frye]

On the podcast, you'll learn how Vogue really works. Sometimes we'll come in for a second or even third run through until we are awok. Can you tell us what awok means? It means aw.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Ok. Anna Winter.

[Nomi Frye]

Ok. I'm Cho Menardi. And I'm Chloe Mel. And we're the hosts of the Run through with Vogue, where fashion and culture collide. Join us. It's awok. Listen and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vincent Cunningham]

This week's episode is sponsored by Neon's film Presence. Directed by Steven Soderbergh and written by David Koepp, Presence is a thrilling new ghost story about a family that moves into a new home and becomes convinced they are not alone. Starring Lucy Liu, Chris Sullivan and Julia Fox, Presence has been hailed as one of the scariest movies you'll see this year. Experience it in theaters on January 24th. Hello.

[Nomi Frye]

Hello, Lucy. Hello. Hi, Lucy. How are you?

[Sophie]

I'm very well, thanks. How are you?

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, good. Where are you calling us from?

[Sophie]

I'm from Glasgow in Scotland.

[Nomi Frye]

You are the second person today who's calling in from Glasgow. Oh, wow. I mean, Scotland is hopping for critics at large and we couldn't be happier.

[Alex Schwartz]

We've got to come to Glasgow.

[Nomi Frye]

So, Lucy, what can we help you with today?

[Sophie]

So, yeah, I'm 24 and I'm still living at home with my parents. And I think my dilemma is best described right now as a sort of crisis of independence. I just honestly feel stuck in a state of arrested development because of this. And I'm wondering if you guys have any film, book, TV recommendations that speak to this experience of. This specific experience of being a young adult and feeling stunted in your growth and feeling quite infantilised at this age, and perhaps any recommendations that present a path forward or at least speak to maybe chipping away at that quite adamantine presence in Your life. Yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

Well, first. First of all, I would say that 24 is very young, and you have plenty of time still to become independent. And I'm sure you will soon, but maybe my lovely co host have some suggestions to start us off with.

[Vincent Cunningham]

You know who else was young? Lucy. And smart?

[Nomi Frye]

Hamlet.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And lived at home and didn't know what to do. Literally Hamlet.

[Nomi Frye]

Literally Hamlet. I knew it.

[Alex Schwartz]

And guess what? He figured out what to do, and it didn't end well. And he didn't end up leaving home, did he, Vincent?

[Vincent Cunningham]

He didn't end up leaving home. But read that play again and think of the death of the father. Think of the death of the father as simply the end of childhood, the end of an early youth. Forget about the specifics of the father's death. Think about that death as a first step toward the abyss that is adulthood. It is scary, and it does ask you, just as Hamlet's father asked Hamlet to act every single time the ghost reappears, think there's a dialectic between stillness and action. Like Hamlet's standing in the church behind his stepfather thinking, like, I should kill him right now. Every single time he comes to one of these questions, it's all about action and stillness. Just. I would. I prescribe Hamlet. But thinking about it as the excruciation that is growing up, because it always is a choice between action and a kind of stillness. This is, by the way, a cycle that even in your adulthood, even once you leave, even once you grow up in the way that you think growing up will manifest in your life, you will still have this sort of Hamlet action of the soul. This circle of. Is now the time to act? What will it feel like to take a step away, and what will it feel like, crucially, not to act? These are both choices. So everybody knew what I was gonna say, because it is just, like, archetypally true. Yes. I did not expect there's danger at the end, but all I could think of when you started to talk was the man himself. To be, not to be.

[Sophie]

I'm honored.

[Vincent Cunningham]

To move out or not to move out.

[Sophie]

That is the question.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That, Lucy, is the question.

[Nomi Frye]

You're gonna be fine. Wow, Vinson. Wow.

[Alex Schwartz]

Vincent going there.

[Nomi Frye]

He went there as.

[Alex Schwartz]

As he loves to do, taken us back. And I couldn't love it more. Lucy, I just want to be clear. I don't think Vincent is advising you to stab anyone through a curtain.

[Vincent Cunningham]

No.

[Alex Schwartz]

Am I correct? Okay.

[Vincent Cunningham]

No.

[Alex Schwartz]

Don't do that.

[Sophie]

Okay.

[Alex Schwartz]

That's not the answer. Never the answer.

[Adam]

Yeah.

[Sophie]

Got it.

[Nomi Frye]

Lucy, have you ever read Dan Clowes Ghost World?

[Sophie]

No, I haven't.

[Nomi Frye]

On which the movie Ghost World was based.

[Sophie]

Is that the Scarlett Johansson film?

[Nomi Frye]

It is, yeah. A young Scarlett Johansson before we knew her, before she was Scarlett Johansson. It's true. Yeah. But the book, which came out in the 90s and is a graphic. It's a graphic novel by the genius cartoonist Dan Clowes, about two girls, Enid and Rebecca, just graduated high school and are living in this kind of like suburban. It's like an unnamed suburb and unnamed American suburb, and they're basically just hanging out at home. Rebecca lives with her grandmother and Enid lives with her divorced dad. And they're kind of just waiting it out. It's unclear. They have, like, vague talk of, like, going to college or getting a job, but they're kind of, you know, it's kind of episodic and it's clear. What's clear is that it's a kind of, like, interstitial period for both of them and that they're not quite ready yet to take the. The next step. We see them taking the next step. But what is really captured beautifully in this graphic novel is the kind of moment before that. And one thing that it shows is that it is a phase. This is not a singular experience. Each person's experience is, of course, singular to the person, but it's not a lonely experience in that it's, you know, kind of broad outlines have been shared by many over the. From the dawn of time, you know, over the course of history. And so I think it's just a really, you know, gorgeous illustration of that moment. And I think you might really. You might really enjoy it.

[Sophie]

Absolutely. Yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

And, you know, let us know how you're doing.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah. You got this, you got this, you got this.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah. Thanks so much for calling in.

[Sophie]

Thank you. Those are reassuring suggestions. Thank you.

[Nomi Frye]

Good, good. Bye, Lucy.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Thanks, Lucy. Bye.

[Alex Schwartz]

Bye.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay, friends, newly minted advice givers. What do you guys. I mean, first of all, do you like seeking advice? Let's start with this, with this question. Do you like seeking advice first from kind of like your nearest and dearest, and then from experts, possibly. Have you ever considered going to, like, writing into an advice column or, like, what's your feelings about seeking out advice?

[Vincent Cunningham]

My strongest feeling about advice in general is that it is a free gift. And the reason that I don't often ask for it in private is that what usually happens in real life when you ask a person that you really know very well for advice is that these attachments come along with it where people can feel put out or bad or kind of even a little bit of schadenfreudish if you don't take their advice. And I think that advice should truly be free, which is actually why I think that the advice column is a good idea, because it's someone who can't then surveil your actions.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, interesting.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Or make you feel strange about what you then do. It's like if you ever ask your friend, especially about romantic matters, and then, you know, they're like, you definitely. Thank you for asking. Because you definitely need to break up. You know, that kind of thing.

[Nomi Frye]

Sure.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And then you stay or don't come.

[Nomi Frye]

Crying to me when you go back to him.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Exactly.

[Nomi Frye]

He does the same thing again.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Exactly. Then you stay or whatever. It becomes this whole triangulation of sort of like, what does this person think now? That I didn't do what they advised or whatever. And I think that too much private advice, too much interpersonal advice, the advice giver takes as license to then control you. This is actually a big thing. I can feel myself getting pissed off. And therefore it is just a fraught thing. And actually, I wish I asked for advice more. And I know that many of my friends would be very good at advising. Many of my friends, I feel to be very wise. But I'm trepidatious about seeking advice. That's so interesting, generally because of this dynamic. And maybe it's just because I don't like to be, like, feel hunted or whatever.

[Nomi Frye]

Sure. Oh, yeah, yeah. You don't want to be checked up on. And the sort of, like, relative impersonality of writing in to a column. So it's interesting that you've never.

[Vincent Cunningham]

But I've never written in. I've never written.

[Nomi Frye]

But you haven't written in.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I have not. Yeah. Although I can imagine many reasons why one might.

[Nomi Frye]

Alex, what about you?

[Alex Schwartz]

Well, so I have written into an advice column.

[Nomi Frye]

Ooh.

[Alex Schwartz]

And I've contemplated doing it more than once.

[Nomi Frye]

Interesting. Can you share?

[Alex Schwartz]

I would love to share. So the advice column I wrote into was the New York Times Magazine's the Ethicist in its old, original incarnation. Right now, the writer of the Ethicist column is the philosopher Kwame Antonio Appiah. But in the past, it was Randy Cohn. He was. If you grew up in New York City like I did and your parents got the Times, you would just flip open the magazine to the Ethicist. Because, I mean. And this, I'm sure, is true for people who are reading Ann Landers or, you know, whatever advice column of the day it was. You want to know what other people are doing, of course, in this world. That's one of the great things about the public advice column. And we all know that there have been some tricksters, some pranksters who have made up fake queries and dilemmas and have just screwed up the system and sent the weather vane spinning. And that's fine, and I'm glad you got your kicks. But mostly, we need to know what's going on in other people's lives under the cloak of anonymity. So what I really liked about the Ethicist at the time was I didn't really have, like, a dilemma about my personal life. I wanted to know if the thing I was contemplating doing was ethical, was permissible. And how old were you at this point? I was 18. I was a college freshman, and some advertisement had reached me about making money by helping kids write college essays. And I had quickly come to realize it was a sort of early version of, like, ChatGPT, basically. Yeah, that's right. It was not so much tutoring. Let's talk about. It was just like, okay, let's go. Here you go. And I thought, okay doesn't seem ethical to me. But, I mean, just saying it now, I'm like, okay, it's not ethical. And so I sent that in, and disappointingly, they loved my question. And at the time, I think they were doing some kind of radio show around the Ethicist. I was gonna be on the air. I was so excited. And then this happens in radio folks we now know from the podcasting world. Producer called me and said, we're sorry. We're going with a different thing.

[Nomi Frye]

You're gonna be dropped in an old sweater.

[Alex Schwartz]

The truth is, I didn't end this thing anyway. But, yeah, I like columns for that reason. I mean, Vincent, I do take issue with one thing you said before.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Take it.

[Alex Schwartz]

Which is that agreed that if you ask real people, you know, and you don't take their advice, you risk judgment and scorn and all the rest of it. That happens all the time in advice columns, too. These people are so judgmental. I'm gonna name names here. I like. I mean, again with the New York Times. Fine. Yes. I read other things. I like Checking out Social Cues by Philip Glanis.

[Nomi Frye]

He's sassy.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I don't know this one.

[Alex Schwartz]

Okay, so these people are writing in, you know, with. It's a little bit more in the mold of a more traditional etiquette column, and people are writing in and all the time there's a little undernote of what the fuck is wrong with you. That can be happening. So I'm just contrasting that to something like Dear sugar from the rumpus. There's also Heather Haverlevsky, who wrote for years at the Cut. Those were kind of these like honey, Pour a cup of tea. I'm gonna give you a shot of whiskey in it. We're gonna sit down and have a heart to heart. Very different than. You know, I can't believe you're even asking this question. Of course you should not be, you know, you have to invite your estranged mother in law. Exactly. Mother in law. To the wedding or whatever it is, you know, your kid's wedding. So yeah, I mean, I get it. It's a little bit like if you were president forever, you would get perhaps high and mighty. If you're gonna be giving advice for decades and a lot of these jobs are decade long jobs, you know, how do you stay home?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Are you advocating for term limits and advice given?

[Alex Schwartz]

I think I might be. I think I might be. How do you stay home though?

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's the beginning of a platform.

[Nomi Frye]

It is the beginning of a platform. And it's, you know, it's striking that you're doing this on the very first day of being an advice giver yourself, a professional advice giver yourself. You're already announcing your intentions.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's like you're George Washington. You're gonna.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm George Washington.

[Vincent Cunningham]

A peaceful transfer of power.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm prepared to go back to my farm.

[Nomi Frye]

I wonder though, before you announce your platform, do you think we need to give a little bit more advice and then maybe we can announce the platform? Because I have some voice. I'm just warming up listeners.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm just warming up.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay, so let's test your newfound powers. We have some voicemails, you know, containing some questions.

[Alex Schwartz]

Bring it on. I say, holy shit, let's do it.

[Nomi Frye]

Let's do it.

[H]

Hi there, critics at large. My name's Andrew. I'm calling about my 13 year old daughter. She loves everything spooky and macabre. However, any recommendation that is added to the pile from her father is naturally met with indifference. And I could really do with some help. I hear you, Andrew, from experts out with the Family. I think when I bought the case, the strange case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, it remains unread and so please, please help me out with a really Good list of PG13 friendly horror inspired pop culture that could really get her excited because I think If I recommend Goosebumps books and they get knocked back again, I'm not sure I can take it. Please, please help me. Thanks so much.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, as the mother to a 13 year old daughter, I could not identify more with your quandary because I try to say you should read this. This is awesome. Somehow it is not deemed awesome. So I totally hear you. Do you guys have any help for Andrew?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Andrew's got two problems as he knows very well. It's the list, but it's also how do you convey the list? So let's address the list. A recent movie that I really liked was Lisa Frankenstein.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, I haven't seen that. I remember Nina actually wanted to see that movie.

[Alex Schwartz]

I haven't seen it either.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's about a young girl who falls in love with a very Frankensteinish monster. There's no horror to it. It's kind of silly and there's lots of limbs falling off comedy or whatever. But also it's just kind of, as he says, horror themed. It's just got lots of jokes about people making paper marking stencils on grave sites and stuff. It's just kind of funny and cool and sweet. I would also bring up the Henry James novella the Turn of the Screw about a governess who goes to, you know, take care of the kids, of the niece and nephew of this kind of landowning fellow in Essex. And it turns out that the place and these kids are potentially haunted. It's really psychological. Interesting. But as for your other problem, find out which of your friends your daughter thinks is the coolest.

[Alex Schwartz]

You need a proxy.

[Vincent Cunningham]

You need a proxy and you need it to be an accident. And it can't come from you. You need to have your coolest and also smartest and most subtle friend drop some things.

[Nomi Frye]

A stack of books can be left on the doorstep. Maybe.

[H]

Yeah.

[Vincent Cunningham]

What you need, what you need as a. And the process of like self giving, that is parenthood. You need to not care about the credit. You may never get the credit, but you need another party. She's gonna be fine. You're gonna be fine. And even the process of it being bounced back to you as you say it's love and she feels it.

[Nomi Frye]

It's all love. It's all love. And I wanna say, Vincent, this is excellent advice. Both points about what Andrew's daughter can read and watch and so on and then also have it come not from Andrew. Excellent point. I would say a third problem is the PG13 thing, because I think one thing that helps in getting a child or like A young teen to read or watch or, you know, listen is things that are a little bit above, you know, the kind of. And so I think if you are willing to stretch your daughter, stretch your recommendations to include things that are a little bit more risque than you might, you know, initially be comfortable with, then probably your daughter will be more amenable to reading these things. And to that, I would mention a book that, weirdly, I had never read before this year. I had seen the movie it's based on, which is also excellent. But the book I discovered is really amazing. Stephen King's Carrie. It is about the horror of puberty. And the book is quite gory, quite sexy, you know, definitely not PG13 rated, definitely R rated, but very good, very scary. But also has a lot of kind of, like, interesting things to say about what it means to become a woman. And so if you're comfortable, you know, kind of stretching the boundaries of what's kind of kosher for your daughter to read, then I would recommend that.

[Alex Schwartz]

Let's not forget that a young Alex Schwartz was scarred by the film camera. I know we just met at the age of 12.

[Nomi Frye]

We just mentioned that. And I also watched you just a dose.

[Alex Schwartz]

Just a. You know, gotta just judge by your kid.

[Nomi Frye]

I mean, yes, maybe.

[Alex Schwartz]

Maybe.

[Nomi Frye]

I mean, yeah. I mean, the question is, do you want her to read or don't you?

[Alex Schwartz]

The question is, Andrew, are you a censor or not?

[Vincent Cunningham]

There you go.

[Nomi Frye]

I mean, you know, you'll have to judge, of course, but that's just. That would be my two cents.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay. Thank you, Andrew. Let's move on to our next voicemail.

[Lucy]

Hi, critics, this is Sophie in New Orleans, Louisiana. And here is my conundrum. I'm pregnant. Not a conundrum, very much a great thing. But I'm kind of fed up with all of the books that I've been reading. I've been swimming in books about birth and pregnancy and feel like I know more than I need to know about perennial tearing and, you know, potential orgasmic birth and why or why not you should get the epidural. And I feel good on that. And I'm ready to start thinking about what happens when this little human arrives. And I'm an artist. So I've been reading a lot of books about being a mom and an artist. And honestly, they all still just make me feel so anxious. They're all just telling me all the sacrifices I'm gonna have to make and how hard it is. And, like, I just feel like all I'm being told is that it's gonna be so hard. And I know it's gonna be so hard. I just want to read something that says, and it's going to be beautiful and it's going to be worth it, like, and it's going to be great. So anyway, please send me something about the magic of motherhood so that I can start manifesting that and start combating my anxiety riddled brain. Thank you guys. Love your podcast.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Love, Sophie. So happy for you, by the way.

[Nomi Frye]

Sophie, so happy for you. And this is such a great question and I have to admit, hearing it, I am at a loss.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm ready to go.

[Nomi Frye]

Alex is ready to go.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Not at a loss.

[Nomi Frye]

Not at a loss at all. But I will just say sorry, that for me personally, you know, as listeners know, and as I just said, mother to a 13 year old, so it all turned out great. It's hard, but it's also good and wonderful and amazing. And I wouldn't, you know, I would do it all again, but thinking about it's hard because it is hard. And it's like. It's a mixed bag. It's a mixed bag. It's a complicated human experience. And the good doesn't come without the difficulty. And the difficulty is part of what makes it good and worthwhile. So. So maybe Alex can give a less complicated answer, but. Okay. She's shaking her head.

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, it's not a less complicated answer.

[Nomi Frye]

No, no, no. Or not or.

[Alex Schwartz]

Cause I think what you say is spot on.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay. So, Alex, what do you think as a mother? We're all parents here around the table.

[Alex Schwartz]

Okay. So I. The reason I was excited was because, okay, we had a little bit of a tip that this question was coming and I outsourced it. Oh. So this is why I feel prepared for this question. Because much like Nomi, I was a bit at a loss at first. I have one first. I have a recommendation for you, Sophie, that is purely my own. And I don't know if you guys have read it. It's a very short book, so it will be very good for the early days. And in fact, a dear, wonderful friend of mine who is a dad and also a writer had sent it to me, saying this was the first thing he had been able to read after his daughter was born. It's called Little Labors by the writer Rifka Galtchin. Oh, okay.

[Nomi Frye]

And Brivka Galchin, she's a staff writer at the New Yorker.

[Alex Schwartz]

That's right. And it's a very short series of kind of observational Vignettes about having a young baby. And she calls the baby the Puma. Through most of the book that she's, you know, she's kind of adapting to this unusual reality of living with a small creature. And what I think is really great about it from the perspective of an artist is that it is about how the experience of having a baby gives you a whole new subject, something totally new to look at, some completely new way to see life, but not even in the grand scheme of things, just on an observational level. It's very funny, it's wry, it's tender, and I think it does make you feel. It made me feel that this will bring something new to your life and to your art making that are not just about, you know. Oh, I'm a mom now. Okay. But I outsource this question because I happen to have a friend who is an artist who is herself writing exactly the kind of book you wanna read, which is not yet published. But she has been completely immersed in this world. So I said, what should this person read?

[Nomi Frye]

She's a mother.

[Alex Schwartz]

She's a mother, and she's been writing a book about motherhood and art making. So. Okay, My friend says that you need to read Matrescence by Lucy Jones, a book that I'm hoping to read and that you will love Mother Artist by Katherine Ricketts, and that you should look at Acts of Creation by Hedi Judah, because you are not alone pursuing art and motherhood. So those are some recommendations. You know, they're now at the top of my list, and I can't wait to read them, too.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Good luck, Sophie.

[Nomi Frye]

Yes, good luck. Good luck on motherhood, because our producer, Rhiannon, is telling me that when we reached out to Sophie to see if she wanted to call in, she was actually in labor.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, my God.

[Nomi Frye]

You got it, Sophie.

[Alex Schwartz]

I don't need to hear anything else. You're fine.

[Nomi Frye]

Mazdaf to Sophie. Welcome to her son, Lorenzo.

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, Lorenzo.

[Nomi Frye]

Who was born last week.

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, my gosh. Oh, Lorenzo, we're so happy you're here. Lorenzo. Oh, my God, Sophie, now that I know you've actually had the baby, just read Little labors. It's gonna be. It's perfect for little stints of being awake in the night. You know, when you're. When you have those midnight moments. Read a page and go back to sleep if you can.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, my God. I'm so excited for you and Lorenzo. Little guy.

[Nomi Frye]

It's little Lorenzo.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Little guy.

[Nomi Frye]

In a minute. Why, in the age of infinite information, we're all the more desperate for answers. Critics at large will be right back.

[Alex Schwartz]

On Lipstick on the Rim.

[Nomi Frye]

We speak with industry insiders, doctors, and.

[Alex Schwartz]

The biggest stars to bring you all the facts. Become best friends with your hairstylist. They're gonna make you look and feel so good and you'll just show up as a better you.

[Nomi Frye]

I always wanted to make hoops. Those girls are hard to raise. They are gonna push all the buttons. Just, just having a community is the best because you can compare stories with your girlfriends. Cheers.

[Alex Schwartz]

Listen to Lipstick on the Rim on Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts or watch full episodes now on YouTube.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay, so you guys, I am personally elated as well as exhausted from all of this advice giving.

[Alex Schwartz]

It's not easy work.

[Nomi Frye]

It's not easy work and yet so many people are giving advice.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Nomi Frye]

What would you guys say is the advice landscape today as you see it? I mean, obviously it's not just self help books, it's not just advice columns. It's the Internet. It's like, am I an asshole on Reddit, which has over 10 million subscribers? I believe that Reddit thread that where people write in and present this problem and ask, am I the asshole here? Why do you think we are so hungry for advice nowadays from all of these different quarters?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah. I wouldn't make one broad sort of, kind of essential statement about it because I'm sure we've always wanted this function in so many different ways. But what does strike me, you know, reading up for this episode, one of the sort of proto advice columns that I read was Martin Luther King used to have a column I know.

[Nomi Frye]

Which I didn't know in the late 50s. Right.

[Vincent Cunningham]

For ebony and Ebony magazine.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And it's really, you know, it's so all of his answers I just couldn't help but hear, like in the sonorous, in the voice. I can well understand the deep shock that came to you and your wife after the arrest of your son, etc.

[Nomi Frye]

That's great.

[Vincent Cunningham]

But what it made me think was like the appeal to this person who was such a clear moral exemplar, in fact a reverend, made me think about the fact that what we don't have today is for better and for worse, really any kind of overarching, normative ethics. And this is mostly good. There are more ways to live now, sort of licitly than there ever have been.

[Nomi Frye]

Did you say licitly?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Licitly.

[Nomi Frye]

Not illicit.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, yeah. Than there ever have been. There is a sort of plurality of approaches to life itself, which means that we are all passing into and out of other people's moral universes, other people's systems of ethics, other people's way of arranging their lives, which makes this sort of like simultaneous situational ethics come into being. You know, each of us is sort of alien to the terms of the other, which I think creates like this big sort of 3D map of how to live together, which is good. I think it is a kind of enriching way to think about other people, but I think just causes more trouble, causes more questions, more challenging.

[Nomi Frye]

For sure. Yeah, because it's like, you know, it's like one kind of function of this proliferation of advice giving in all of these different ways is not just for the people writing to receive advice or for the people reading to kind of like see examples of the advice they could get in a similar situation, but also for people to see advice people are getting for situations that one might never experience in one's own life and realizing that this is the part of the fabric of society right now.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah, that's a point that's very well taken, you know, because I like to think that there's something edifying and also fun about reading the questions, let alone the replies that come in, just to see the plethora of human experience and to understand what is going on in society. You know, Vincent, I had also recently learned about that Martin Luther King Jr. Column, which was an absolute shock to me. I mean, let alone the advertising tagline, did you see this? Let the man that led the Montgomery boycott lead you to happier living. Extraordinary. And one question you got. Cause I was checking out. The column was I'm in love. It was a white man saying, I'm in love with a black woman and we wanna marry. Should we? And the advice he gives is, you know, first of all, it's individuals who marry, not races. Yes, there will be social problems ahead of you. If you are well aware of those problems and feel that you can handle them, then nothing should impede your union. And there have been very happy couples. So he's dealing with both the personal and the broader social going on. And that question is very moving, beautiful, you know, to think about in the late 50s. But yeah, you know, I think there is a bit of a misconception broadly held about our so called age of information, which is that by having more information available than ever at the touch of your fingertips, you can use it and it's helpful. And we know all this stuff. Absolutely not. Vincent, you were mentioning at the very start of the episode on the Experience of just being bombarded, an experience I share with all kinds of baby advice stuff. On Instagram, the algorithm has figured out that you're sleepless and you want your kid to sleep, or that you're not sure that they're eating enough vegetables. And, you know, and people go in and fill that gap. And sometimes I find some of it helpful. Very often I think it can be deranging, truly deranging, because it makes you think, what am I not doing right? And, you know, having more information is useful up to a point. I think what the best kind of advice givers give is a sense of personal connection. No, they are not authorities. No, no. But they earn their keep by being trusted friends, advisors, and realists because the practical element is so major. And I think that's in some ways the most challenging element of actually giving good advice in a public capacity. It's balancing the kind of, here's what you should do with. Here's what you actually are gonna be able to do. That's hard. That's not easy.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah, I mean, I think it's true, you know, we're lucky because we are newly minted, but still, you know, cultural advice givers. And I think culture is the realm of infinite possibility. You read books or you watch movies or you listen to music, you know, to kind of propel yourself into an ideal state, you know, where you're the only one who's making the rules. But of course, advice giving in real life involves other people and involves social constraints. It involves politics, it involves bias. It involves, you know, so many. So many different. So many different things.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah. There is this sort of strain of tension in the world of advice giving because it's like you can't tell somebody to change the system that they live in. There is an implicit. You could call it conservative if you want, but you could just call it, as you just said, realistic.

[Nomi Frye]

I mean, realistic.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Pragmatic.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah, pragmatic.

[Vincent Cunningham]

How do I live in the world as it exists? I do find that heartening that, like, we are just, like, you know, muddling through, doing what we can, making space for ourselves at the margins. There is something very human about that that I really like about this genre.

[Nomi Frye]

This has been critics at large. Our senior producer is Rhiannon Corby and Alex Barish is our consulting editor. Our executive producer is Steven Valentino. Conde Nast's head of Global Audio is Chris Bannon. Alexis Quadrado composed our theme music and we had engineering help today from James Yost with mixing by Mike Kutschman. You can find every episode of Critics at [e-mail] critics. I need a Critic is an ongoing project and we'd love to hear from you. Email [e-mail] with the subject line Critics. See you soon.

[I]

Hi, I'm Ashley Flowers, creator and host of the number one true crime podcast Crime Junkie. Every Monday, me and my best friend Britt break down a new case, but not in the way you've heard before and not the cases you've heard before. You'll hear stories on Crime Junkie that haven't been told anywhere else. I'll tell you what you can do to help victims and their families get justice. Join us for new episodes of Crime Junkie every Monday. Already waiting for you by searching for Crime Junkie wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Nomi Frye]

From PRX.