The Guilty Pleasure of the Heist

Summary

Critics at Large | The New Yorker

Episode: The Guilty Pleasure of the Heist

Date: November 13, 2025
Hosts: Vinson Cunningham (C), Naomi Fry (A), Alexandra Schwartz (B)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives into the enduring cultural fascination with heists, both real and fictional. Sparked by the recent, much-memed Louvre crown jewels robbery and the new Kelly Reichardt film The Mastermind, the hosts explore why audiences find pleasure in tales of clever criminality, the tropes of heist narratives, and how real-life events often get filtered through pop culture. The conversation touches on the social, political, and emotional undertones of heist stories, with each host sharing personal favorites from the genre and reflecting on what these stories say about our relationship to institutions—and to crime itself.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Heist Fantasies: Opening Question

• Hosts imagine their personal “heist targets” as an icebreaker, blending humor and nostalgia:
  • Naomi Fry (A): “Charles Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa, California – it would be an absolutely adorable heist.” (01:01)
  • Alexandra Schwartz (B): “A classic heist... probably a mummy from the Met or something. Something that was already stolen. And so just steal it again, right? What’s the harm?” (01:24)
  • Vinson Cunningham (C): “The Macy's on 34th Street... I know the building well enough that I could develop a plan with airtight... With the help of a team of experts. Don't get me wrong, right? We could get together and Italian Job the fuck out of that Macy's.” (01:35)

2. The Louvre Heist: Real Crime, Online Sensation

• The recent daytime theft of French crown jewels from the Louvre captures global attention as a rare “fun” worldwide news story.
• Naomi Fry (A) details the farcical elements:
  • “The criminals... pulled up like a truck with a ladder... dressed up as workmen. And the camera... was conveniently turned away from them. Actually, scratch that, my favorite detail, apparently the password of the security system... is Louvre.” (04:08)
• Alexandra Schwartz (B): “It’s kind of a trifle... clown show.” (05:04)
• Vinson (C): Highlights “human frailty” and how errors in the plan led to capture: “I always like the parts of the plan that don't come together... It's just such a pathetic detail of human frailty.” (05:07)

Memes and Cultural Response

• The hosts discuss the joy and creativity of heist memes, as the internet riffs on the story’s “Frenchness.”
  • Naomi shares a favorite Instagram video—“my impression of the Louvre heist creative director”—lampooning the aesthetic as a work of French art. (07:34–08:24)
  • Vinson notes that even the lift manufacturer got in on the fun, promoting their system as the “quiet as a whisper” tool of the thieves. (08:47)
  • Alex delights in a viral song: “The two dudes who robbed the Louvre are literally sexy as hell...” marveling at the intersection of actual talent and absurdity. (10:47)

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3. Fictional Heists: ‘The Mastermind’ and The Heist Genre

Kelly Reichardt’s ‘The Mastermind’—A Failed Art Heist (12:15–18:33)

• Plot Summary (C):
  • “The Mastermind begins with... James Mooney... wayward son of a judge... surreptitiously unlocks a museum case... planning to steal a bunch of paintings... It’s like a shit show at one point.”
• Alex (B) loves it completely: “Loved every second of this movie. Every frame. Every minute, every music cue. Loved it.” (16:41–16:46)
• Nomi (A) & Vinson (C) are ambivalent:
  • Nomi admires Reichardt’s “ability to get through... movies that aren’t commercial” but finds the movie “stretch[es] a little bit too far into, like, who is this guy?” (14:40–16:38)
  • Vinson feels “Josh O’Connor does not belong in this movie... He’s too famous and he’s not actually... This movie calls for anonymity.” (14:14)

What Makes Heist Stories So Enticing?

• The hosts agree that heist narratives satisfy on multiple levels:
  • “Something really satisfying about watching a group of people execute on a complicated plan... schadenfreude when things go wrong... there’s an almost Robin Hood-like angle.” (06:12)

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4. Heist Movie Canon: Personal Favorites (21:30–28:14)

• Naomi (A):
  • Recalls How to Beat the High Cost of Living—“three women in Oregon, suburban moms... decide to pull off a heist in the local mall. It shows the real socioeconomic and gender desperation behind this endeavor.” (22:14–23:51)
• Vinson (C):
  • Drive (2011): “The stunt driver is sort of getting to know this woman... her ex gets out of jail and he's pulled into a heist... goes wrong, goes bad... a beautiful movie about a really desperate situation.” (23:51–25:49)
• Alex (B):
  • Le Cercle Rouge (1970): “So fantastic and complex and brilliantly plotted... layers on layers... you just feel the weight of time... very satisfying... philosophical about the darker nature of man, what leads someone to commit crime.” (25:51–28:14)

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5. Roots of Identification: Why Do We Side with Heisters? (29:25–32:31)

• Moral Ambiguity and Social Critique
  • Vinson (C): “Maybe the way to understand the heist movie is that the only way to understand society... is to understand the holes in them at which the heist is sort of laser targeted.” (30:14)
  • Naomi (A): “There is a certain satisfaction. And this is like in a heist gone well, in a heist gone right, that you’re like, oh, someone can carry something off... It's the morality of, like, wits.” (30:29–31:30)
  • Heist stories reflect admiration for cleverness and competence—“competency porn”—and the thrill of subverting established power.

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6. Success vs. Failure: What Do We Really Want from a Heist? (34:08–39:23)

• Is “getting away with it” essential to heist satisfaction?

  • Vinson (C): “The success or failure of the heist, sort of in our attitudes toward it, start to describe for us how we feel about the great big totems of our everyday lives.” (34:08–35:26)
  • Alex (B) describes the impact of real art theft: “I felt quite, quite bereft to see the absence of these things [at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum]... They are there to be entered into our own lives and shared among us... another community.” (36:31)

• Escapism vs. Realism: Successful, glamorous heists like Ocean’s Eleven “scratch one itch”—pure escapism—while the messy, failed heists of films like The Mastermind or Good Time “turn a mirror to society” and elicit empathy and anxiety instead. (37:45–39:23)

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7. Heist Metaphors: Society, Power, and Contemporary Relevance (41:08–45:32)

• Alex (B): “Scammers and heisters—similar, but one just feels a lot grosser than the other... There’s something sordid, even about finding [real] heists fun.” (41:08)
• Vinson (C): “The supposedly minor criminality or benign criminality of the establishment has now been doubled down upon, made buffoonishly pushed to its final extent... On the other hand, you could say... it exposes what was always exploitable.” (43:26–44:17)
• Naomi (A): “Now that [the White House] is being torn down willy-nilly to build a gilded $300 million ballroom, I’m like, fuck, I miss... the George W. Bush White House... It’s making me think things I never thought I’d really care about.” (44:19)

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8. The Future of Heisting: Enduring Allure & Final Thoughts

• Vinson (C): “Heisters will always be with us... We often think of the heister as a very sane person who just has a big idea.” (45:51)
• Naomi (A) jokes about becoming an infamous Schulz Museum heister. (46:18)
• Alex (B) proposes writing the musical if it happens—a callback to earlier, lighthearted meme culture discussion. (46:33–46:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “With the help of a team of experts. Don’t get me wrong, right? We could get together and Italian Job the fuck out of that Macy’s.” – Vinson Cunningham (01:35)
• “Apparently the password of the security system of the Louvre... is Louvre.” – Naomi Fry (05:04)
• “Loved every second of this movie. Every frame. Every minute, every music cue. Loved it.” – Alexandra Schwartz on The Mastermind (16:41)
• “The only way to understand society... is to understand the holes in them at which the heist is sort of laser targeted.” – Vinson Cunningham (30:14)
• “A successful heist is pure escapism, you know... Whereas the failed heist movie... It’s almost like two different separate genres.” – Naomi Fry (37:45)
• “What I love about a heist is restraint. You have to know what you can get away with, and when you get too greedy, the whole thing is liable to fall apart.” – Alexandra Schwartz (44:59)

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Key Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:00 – Host’s dream heists (fun icebreaker)
• 03:27 – Setting up the Louvre heist as a world event
• 04:08–05:36 – Absurd/entertaining details of the Louvre heist
• 07:34–10:47 – Memes and social media responses
• 12:15–18:33 – Discussion of The Mastermind: plot, reactions, and themes
• 21:30–28:14 – The hosts’ favorite heist movies: How to Beat the High Cost of Living, Drive, Le Cercle Rouge
• 29:25–32:31 – Why audiences root for heisters; societal critique
• 34:08–39:23 – The psychological tension of failed vs. successful heists
• 41:08–45:32 – Heist narratives as metaphors for contemporary political and social realities
• 45:51–46:42 – Closing jokes about becoming real-life heisters

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Overall Tone and Style

The episode is lively, witty, and self-aware—balancing genuine cultural analysis with humor and a clear love for the genre. The hosts’ rapport shines through as they debate, reminisce about formative heist movies, and draw connections between pop culture and the real world.

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For New Listeners

This episode is a spirited, insightful deep dive into what makes heist stories irresistibly juicy—be it in movies, memes, or the news. Whether you’re after competent criminals in glittering casinos, bumbling thieves in over their heads, or the memes that make us laugh about it all, Critics at Large offers a thoughtful, entertaining conversation on the guilty pleasure that is the heist.

Transcript

[A]

Foreign.

[B]

Hi, listeners, it's Alex. I want to ask for your help with something. We're doing a survey of Critics at Large, listeners, and we want to hear from you. This survey is a way for you to help shape the future of critics at large. Let us know what you love about the show, whether it's a reaction to a favorite episode or something you'd like to hear down the line, and there's something in it for you. If you complete the survey, you're eligible to enter a prize drawing up to $1,000. You can find a link to the survey in our show notes. If you've got a moment, go ahead and fill it out. It really is a great way for us to hone in on what you're loving about critics at Large. Thanks. Big question. Big question.

[A]

Okay. Oh, boy. Okay.

[B]

Oh, boy. Should you be called upon to perform a heist, what would you target?

[A]

Okay. The first thing that comes to mind is the Charles Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa, California.

[B]

Beautiful.

[A]

That has all the original, like, Peanuts strips and.

[B]

Wow, wow, wow. And what a heist it would be. It would be an adorable heist.

[A]

It would be an absolutely adorable heist.

[B]

I think I would do, like, a bit of a classic heist. Like, probably a mummy from the Met or something. You know, something that was already stolen. And so just steal it again, right? What's the harm, right, Vincent?

[C]

I would heist the big institution that I know best, which is The Macy's on 34th Street.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

I know. The escalators, the wooden old ones in the back of the store. Every inch of the fragrance floor in the middle of the first floor. I just feel that I know the building well enough that I could develop.

[A]

A plan with airtight.

[C]

With the help of a team of experts. Don't get me wrong, right? We could get together and Italian Job the fuck out of that Macy's, I think.

[A]

Would you steal, like, I don't know, Calvin Klein Eternity, or would you steal, like, cash?

[C]

I think clothes are a good bet for a heist. You don't need a special guy to be like, hey, do you like this painting?

[A]

It's not like a Vermeer.

[C]

I got a Nautica puffy jacket that you wanted it.

[B]

And you could probably sell it right in front of that Macy's, too.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

So it would. It's a perfect scheme.

[A]

This is Critics at Large, a podcast from the New Yorker. I'm Nomi Frye.

[C]

I'm Vincent Cunningham.

[B]

And I'm Alex Schwartz. Each week on this show we make sense of what's happening in the culture right now and how we got here. Hello, critics, Hello. Did you get here in a getaway car?

[C]

I mean, I wish, I wish. I still can't drive. I need to be gotten away with, so.

[B]

Oh, wow.

[A]

Yeah, well, you are near, kid, so that.

[B]

Yeah, well, we are feeling something in the air. We're feeling a little bit of, dare I say, fun. Some excitement, some, some. For the first time in a long time, there's a story that has captured the attention of people all around the world. And not in a terrible, we're being crushed, life is horrible, it's the end of everything kind of way. I'm talking, of course, about the heist of the Louvre.

[A]

Right? It's like Zorin's election.

[B]

No, I'm going right to the heist.

[A]

Right.

[B]

On Sunday, October 19, at precisely 9:34am Four mass thieves broke into the Louvre's Galerie d' Apollon and stole over $100 million worth of French crown jewels. God damn. Eight pieces of crown jewels. And they dropped one. And the crown, Eugenie's crown is somewhere dented, getting repaired. The story has just gotten more and more elaborate and layered and frankly, hilarious. As more details have come in, I would like to know if either of you. Have you been following the heist? Do you have some heist details that you've been particularly enjoying?

[A]

I've been following the heist because it's kind of. It feels like. I know it's like a serious thing on the one hand, but on the, on the other hand, it's kind of a trifle and it has these trifling details. You know, for instance, that the criminals, the hysters, the robbers pulled up like a truck with a ladder to go up and dressed up as like, you know, workmen. And the camera that would have captured them was conveniently like, turned away from them. You know what? Actually, scratch that. I think my favorite, my favorite detail, apparently the password of the security system of the Louvre that, you know, is host to like, untold treasures from around the world of many centuries is Louvre. It's like a very, like, keystone, you know, just very kind of like clown show.

[B]

It's gorgeous.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Vincent, any favorite heist details?

[C]

Well, besides the sort of just brazenness of the timing and the sort of the ladder, which is like, you know, just such a great visual. I always like the parts of the plan that don't come together. Like the, you know, they were thinking they were gonna blow everything up and instead they leave back behind all the evidence that's in the truck leading, it seems, to some parts of the capture. It's just such a pathetic detail of, you know, human frailty.

[A]

Yeah. This was not a perfect crime.

[C]

It was not.

[B]

You know, indeed it was not. And we will be talking more about that. And heists are on our brains in general because there is a film about a much smaller scale museum heist that's out in theaters right now, Kelly Reichart's the Mastermind. It's about an art school dropout who steals four paintings from a small local museum in Massachusetts. And it does not go well. So that's what we're going to be talking about today. Heists and why we are drawn to all the sordid details, whether they be fictional or in real life. There's certainly a glamour to some of the places that heisters are robbing. Of course, there are the three casinos in Ocean's Eleven. There's, you know, the Louvre. And there's something really satisfying or there can be about watching a group of people execute on a complicated plan and maybe some schadenfreude involved when things go wrong. But the way people are talking about this latest heist, there's an almost Robin Hood like angle. We're sticking it to the man, you know, in the form of big institutions. And so the big question I have for us is, what do we, the audience, get from a heist that's today on critics at large, the art of the heist. Let's start, of course, with the Louvre heist. We've talked about the basics, and I want to talk now about the Internet's response to this because it's been everywhere. I will say that one thing I deeply enjoy about online culture is when it's a bunch of different people come together and just meme the shit out of something in a way that's very satisfying and can be like a real collective experience.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I'm aware that this is not, you know, the highest form of culture, but I love it. I love it. So are there any good memes and such that you guys have seen that can give us a clue into how the culture has been interpreting this heist?

[A]

Yeah, I think one of the things that distinguishes this heist in the popular imagination as I've seen it so far, is its Frenchness. Right. I mean, there was one funny video that I saw on Instagram. It's a girl, Stella Webb, my impression of the Louver heist creative director. Right. So she's sitting there wearing a black turtleneck of course. Clutching a cigarette between two fingers. When I get this first call for heist.

[B]

Of course. Immediatement to tweet everybody. The brain is going to night. Dark colors, lasers, fingertips. Of course, we have seen this before. Night is gauche. Daytime heist. We are changing the narrative on the heist.

[A]

The idea that this is something beyond a criminal endeavor. It's an aesthetic endeavor. Right. It's something that kind of like inflames our imaginations and in a way that links to a kind of like national character. Right. It's a French daytime heist in the Louvre.

[B]

Vincent, anything that's caught your eye?

[C]

You know, usually I don't like memes that are sort of put forward by brands. Cause it's like so. They're always so pandering and silly. But the company that made the lift that was used in the heist with the truck, the dirt truck with the ladder, put out a picture of their machine outside the Louvre and said, if you're in a hurry, the Bakar Agilo carries your treasures up to 400 kg at 42 meters per minute. Quiet as a whisper. It was just funny. Like, I mean, you can't buy appropriation. Great advertisement. And it's interesting, you know, usually if your product is used in something bad, you run away from it. But I thought that meme was interesting insofar as it really described how much fun people are having with this. I thought it was a very cheeky move by them. Bakker shout out to you.

[B]

Also, have you guys seen the video of the thieves descending in that lift? It's comically slow, like they could have run down much faster. They're just going, zoop, zoop, zoop, zoop, zoop. As normal cars pass by as security guards inside the museum starting to talk about something, these guys are just descending very slowly and safely down.

[C]

Alex, how about you?

[B]

I've seen a number I enjoy, including some variations on the get ready with me trope on social media where it's get ready with me to rob the Louvre. But the one that's truly won my heart is by a young creator, shall we say, who goes by Jake. Amazing. And his name is Jake Schroeder. He writes songs like pop style songs around ridiculous events like this. There are headshots of these two guys. Have you seen these headshots circulating? Yeah, I'm not even clear on whether these headshots real or not. Yeah, it's. I don't. France doesn't release headshots in the way there is. There is no kind of Purple walk in France in the way. Mug shots. Thank you. Mug shots. Of course this is right. But I guess I call them headshots because they do look like actors, these two guys. So here's a little pop song by Jake. Amazing.

[A]

The two dudes who robbed the Lou.

[B]

Are literally sexy as hell. Am depressed that they found the dudes.

[A]

But I'm grateful for that visual. Steal me, feel me, this is good. Not Louvre me.

[B]

I love this. I will say why. It's because this guy is clearly talented. Like he can write a song that frankly, I might like to hear in a long term developed Broadway show. You know, 15 years later, when all of us have forgotten this heist, I can see this appearing on Broadway, but.

[A]

I just said, why don't you write it?

[B]

Wow, that would be a wonderful use of my time.

[A]

This is a chance to strike it rich.

[B]

I truly can't think of a better creative endeavor for me personally. Thank you for suggesting it. I just love the combo of actual talent and absurdity that's going on here. It is perfect. It's almost like it was engineered for these ridiculous memes. But no, we must recall that in fact, this ties was engineered to make a small handful of people very, very rich if only they could figure out how to fence their stolen items. So we have much more to say and discuss about the Lou of Heist, but I want to move us to the Mastermind, which is Kelly Reichardt's new movie starring the ubiquitous Josh o'. Connor. I'm not sad that he's ubiquitous. He's great. He's all over the place for a reason. Vincent, could you just tell us a little bit about the plot of this film?

[C]

The Mastermind begins with the sort of sad, but sort of like, intriguingly, I don't know, hang dog existence of JB or James Mooney, who is the sort of wayward son of a very prominent judge. His wife is played by Alana Haim. He has two sons and it starts with them in a museum. We see them hanging around a museum and he surreptitiously unlocks a museum case and takes a small trinket. Then we see him getting together with a bunch of people planning to steal a bunch of paintings from a specific room. Paintings by Arthur Dove, abstract works that still have something to do with landscape and the outdoors, but mostly abstractions. The Heist happens and it's like a shit show at one point.

[B]

And it's also a day heist.

[C]

I just want to say it's a day heist. It prominently Figures a museum guard who's always asleep. And eventually one of the heisters brings out a gun. Unplanned. They get out, barely. And from there forward, he has to go on the run. Dad.

[A]

Dad.

[C]

You don't look like cops. See, James, we've been told that you're mixed up in this robbery. I sure don't know how you got down this road with.

[B]

You got the wrong idea. I'm afraid you got some bad information.

[C]

It is like a lot of Kelly Reichert films. Reminds me a little bit of an Eric Roemer film of sort of a quotidian movie of the extreme emotion.

[B]

And now I just wanna know, did you like it?

[C]

Sort of.

[B]

Okay, say more.

[C]

I really found lots of the first half of the movie very funny. And I will admit that after that first half I kept speculating as to. I won't say hoping, but speculating as to when it might end.

[A]

Aha.

[C]

I got it.

[B]

I got it.

[C]

Kelly Reichert admirably gets these already interesting films made. And the bargain that she has to make is getting famous people in the movies. And Josh o' Connor does not belong in this movie. I think it's got a casting problem. He's too famous and he's not actually. This movie calls for anonymity. And yet I enjoyed it and thought it had a lot to offer. But I do think that the sleeping museum guard had a point.

[B]

Wawa Nomi. What did you think?

[A]

Okay. I usually really love Kelly Reichert movies.

[B]

Oh, my God, look at the consensus forming. Nomi. Well, it's not.

[A]

I was of two minds about this movie. Much like Vinson. I appreciate, admire, and am thankful for Rikert's ability to get through in this current, you know, commercial climate. Movies that aren't commercial, I do think that's important and I usually like it. Like, for instance, I love showing up her last movie. I do feel that a movie about a heist and a heist gone wrong and a heist whose aims are not completely apparent. And I again appreciate this about Kelly Reichardt's movies that there is no necessary explanation or point. Because life doesn't necessarily proceed to any climax or explanation, right? Or epiphany. And that's fine. But I do think here that got kind of stretched a little bit too far into, like, who is this guy? Like, I get that the point is this movie takes place in the early 70s. It's a moment of great ideological, you know, foment and people who are kind of of the generation of this character, you know, youngish are feeling very strongly, you know, against the Vietnam War, against the institutions around them. And he sort of, like, doesn't seem to be part of that. But then also, it's unclear what drives this heist. You know, why are we following this person? Why Arthur Dove? Again, it doesn't need to be some, like, great spiritual revelation or some. But the kind of, like, pointlessness of the whole thing, which I know was the point was, like, stretched a little bit beyond comprehension for me.

[B]

You guys ready?

[A]

Oh, my God.

[C]

Give it to us.

[B]

Loved every second of this movie. Every frame.

[C]

Incredible.

[B]

Every minute, Every music cue. Loved it.

[C]

Music was very good.

[A]

I will say it's a beautiful movie.

[B]

I'm here to speak for it, and I see your criticisms and I understand your criticisms, and I'm here to defend the movie from them. Okay, sorry. That came on really strong.

[C]

Nope.

[B]

I love your points of view. I love your points of view. I just happen to love this movie. And I was very surprised by loving this movie because, Vincent, you're right. Kelly Reichart can be a bit of a slow burn. But I was on the absolute edge of my seat at 11am with all of the other four people at the Angelica Cinema. What I love about this movie is all the. There are a few things. One is that I just love an escape story or where the noose is tightening and you're desperate. The guy is desperate. How are they gonna get out of this situation? But the other thing I do like about it is the apparent aimlessness of it, which, if you think about it and you poke at it, I think there are some answers. Like, there is an answer in the movie itself about why he chose these paintings because they were important to his mentor in art school. But, like, it doesn't matter that much. I think it's about someone in search of a life and in search of an identity, in search of something to do. He is a dropout, but he's not a political dropout in the ways of so many of the people of the time. And there's so much political that happens in this movie. There's constant reference to the Vietnam War. It takes place in the year 1970. There's a reference to the bombings in Cambodia. There's a big climactic protest march. And this guy is just kind of a regular failure. I loved how the attentiveness that Kelly Reichart showed to the mechanics of the heist because that. And we'll get to this in a second, is what can be so exciting about a great heist movie. And here all those mechanics just show you what goes awry. There's also a long sequence of him trying to hide the paintings in a barn. The camera does not cut. You're just watching him.

[C]

I love that scene.

[B]

And head down a ladder as a pig snorts away, trying to hide these works of art with no idea what he's going to do with them. It is a film about a gross incompetent who could have been a contender. And I love that the Heist has been a staple of movies since the very beginning of the 20th century. What keeps us coming back to stories of elaborate robberies. That's after the break on Critics at Large from the New Yorker.

[C]

Foreign.

[B]

I'm Katie Drummond. I'm Wired's global Editorial director.

[C]

I'm Michael Colory, Wired's Director of Consumer Tech and Culture.

[B]

And I'm Lauren Good. I'm a senior correspondent at Wired. And our show Uncanny Valley is all about the people, power and influence of Silicon Valley. At Wired, we're constantly reporting on how technology is changing every aspect of our lives. So each week on the show we get together to talk about one of the biggest stories in tech.

[C]

Right?

[B]

So whether we're talking about privacy, AI.

[C]

Social media, or a major tech figure, we will always explain the Silicon Valley forces behind these stories and how they affect you.

[B]

Make sure you're following Uncanny Valley in your podcast app of choice so you don't miss an episode. This show's supported by Uncommon Goods. The countdown is on. Holiday shopping season is officially here. Uncommon Goods takes the stress out of gifting with thousands of unique, high quality finds you won't see anywhere else. Uncommon Goods has something for everyone. Plus, many products are crafted by independent artists and small businesses, making every gift feel meaningful and truly one of a kind. So don't wait. Cross those names off your list before the rush. To get 15% off your next gift, go to UncommonGoods.com critics. That's UncommonGoods.com critics for 15% off Uncommon Goods, we're all out of the ordinary. So we've been talking about two heists. The Louvre heist, which every single person on planet Earth is following, and the mastermind, which as we say is a bit more selective. I would urge people to see it. Part of the fun, I would say, of especially the heist memes around the Louvre is the fact that the tropes and the story beats they're playing off of are so familiar. I mean, all heists have three components. You gotta get a gang together, you gotta do the robbery, and then you gotta get away. So I think we're all following it in a lot of ways, knowing those beats because of the movies. So I wanted to ask you guys, what are some of your favorite heist movies? Your personal heist canon, if you will.

[A]

So as I was prepping for this episode, I was like, yeah, of course. I've watched, like, Ocean's Eleven and then, like, the, you know, 11 sequels. 12, 13, eight to that movie and the Italian Job. You know, the kind of classic, like. Kind of like gentleman's. Like a glamorous gentleman's occupation, Right? The kind of like, oh, it's glamorous. You know, These people are all like, the best at what they do, right? And I suddenly remember this movie from childhood. I don't know if you guys are familiar with it. It's from 1980. It's a minor comedy. It's called how to Beat the High Cost of Living.

[B]

I don't know this movie.

[A]

It's, like, so random. Suddenly I was like, wait. That was actually really fascinated me when I was a child. Like, I watch it on TV in the 80s sometime. It's three women, a young Jessica Lange.

[B]

Okay?

[A]

Jane Curtin and Susan St. James.

[B]

All right?

[A]

It's about these three women living in Oregon. Suburban moms who are all struggling in their way. So it's 1980. It's, you know, 70s feminism. You know, second wave feminism is in the air. But women are still fucked over, right? So these are all women who have been fucked over and they can't make ends meet.

[B]

Elaine. Three girls who are in the same trouble as millions of Americans. I need more money.

[A]

I cannot scream on $200 a month child support anymore.

[B]

Why don't we just become hookers and rent a motel room?

[A]

We'd starve to death. There's 12,000 college girls in this town giving it away.

[B]

One day.

[A]

They did to the system what the.

[B]

System'S been doing to them, and they.

[A]

Decide to pull off a heist. And the heist happens in the local mall.

[B]

So I have a question. Is it good?

[A]

It's, you know, it's a minor movie, okay? But I remember it. It looms large in my memory as something kind of fun and games and kind of stupid and silly. And they. They manage to. They. They carry it off like it's. It's fine. But it also shows kind of the real, kind of like socioeconomic and kind of gender desperation that's behind this endeavor in a way that's very true to the moment it came out in. And so I think that is something that sometimes, not always, but sometimes happens with depictions of heists.

[C]

One of my favorites, a kind of smaller scale picture that I really like, is the movie Drive 2011, starring Ryan Gosling. Gosling, directed by Nicholas Vinding Refn.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And it is about a stunt driver called Driver throughout the movie who also sort of moonlights as a getaway driver.

[B]

If I drive for you, you give.

[C]

Me a time and a place. I give you a five minute window.

[B]

Anything happens in that five minutes and I'm yours no matter what. I don't sit in while you're running it down.

[C]

I don't carry a gun.

[A]

I drive.

[C]

Interestingly, I think the heist movie as a subgenre of the crime movie is sort of about skirting the legit world and the illegitimate world and often using the skills and talents that are developed in one and importing it to the other. In this case, very talented Driver is sort of deep in this underworld. That's just a part of it. He just is a hired gun as a. As a getaway driver. He is sort of getting to know this woman, one of his neighbors and her kid. But her ex gets out of jail and he's pulled into a heist situation with the ex, whose name is standard, and they go out to try to rob a pawn shop of, like, so tens of thousands of dollars. There's a heist, including another accomplice who was played by Christina Hendricks.

[A]

I forgot about that part.

[C]

It goes wrong, it goes bad. And the rest of the picture is a kind of aftermath of the failed heist. So again, the sort of sorrow of an underworld and its inhabitants, people who are desperate. But it's also just a very, very, very stylish movie. The cars look great. The lights are all very sort of like, ambient. And, um, it's a really beautiful movie about a really desperate situation.

[B]

Love it.

[C]

How about you, Alex?

[B]

Well, I do think Ocean's Eleven, which we keep mentioning, is one of the great films. I rewatched it this weekend. It is so fun and so good and so satisfying and just, like, oozes charisma from every shot. But the film I want to talk about is another tremendous film that I really. If you're in New York City, you can go see it soon at Film Forum, which is doing a series about French heists, which I think will be really fun. Ooh la la. And it's called Le Circle Rouge. The Red Circle.

[A]

Ah, yes.

[B]

By Jean Pierre Melville, Alain Delon. So this movie is so fantastic and complex and brilliantly plotted and Timed that. I think it will really scratch the itch of anyone who loves a heist film. It starts with a criminal, Coret, who's played by Alain Delon, who's about to get out of jail after five years. He gets a tip from his guard that there is a fancy jewelry store in Paris that this prison guard has an in at that could be robbed, should one be willing to do such a thing. This plotline crosses with a criminal who is running away from a police inspector. And their paths cross and they begin to put a team together for this jewelry store heist. And at the same time, they're being hunted. They're being hunted by the police inspector who's after the criminal who got away. So it's layers on layers on layers. And one thing I love about this movie is the way time works in it. Because of course, a heist happens. Like we all are so fixated on the loof heist. The 3 minutes and 54 seconds, whatever it was, that they were actually inside, you know, for film, it's great because it's a real time endeavor. You're trying to show how long this crazy thing takes because it all needs to be very precisely timed. In Ocean's Eleven, there's the whole thing where they have the Chinese acrobat who's inside of this sealed container who will actually suffocate after 30 minutes if they can't get him out. So one thing I love about Le Circle Rouge is you just feel the weight of time. You feel it during the heist itself. It's a beautiful long, I would say maybe almost 30 minute sequence of how they're gonna get in and out of this jewelry store. And in that sense, it's very satisfying in the sense that you sympathize with everyone, including the police inspector who has Know me youe would love this. Three cats who he dotes on. Not cats who he calls his babies.

[A]

Ah ba ba.

[B]

It's very stylish and it's beautiful. And I also really felt like it would be a good double viewing, I think, with the Mastermind. One was actually made in 1970, the other takes place in 1970. And there's a kind of. There's a sort of jazzy rhythm to each. The way silence works in Le Sarc Le Rouge. It's not a movie that over soundtracks, music is not playing at all times. But when music goes, something significant is happening. And the same is true in the Mastermind. With this kind of jazzy score that peters out as things go increasingly wrong. It's fabulous. It's satisfying. And it's also philosophical about the darker nature of man, what leads someone to commit crime. And that's also what I'm wondering for you guys. You know, we talked before about how fun heists are, I think, generally because they're often seen as being a victimless crime. Like Ocean's Eleven is, again, the perfect example. They're hitting three casinos who are run by the guy who took George Clooney's girl. We don't like him. We want him to lose. But we also feel very satisfied that this $160 million take is not coming out of, you know, other people's wallets. No one is going to have to starve because of this heist.

[A]

Just Andy Garcia.

[B]

Just Andy Garcia. So is there something about the criminality of the heist film that makes us sympathize more with the criminal? Is it like a way into the criminal mind? Is that uncomfortable? Is that okay?

[C]

It's about the criminal mind, but it's also about exactly what you mentioned. What is the nature of an establishment? And it seems that the competencies involved in the planning of the heist sort of interestingly rival the nature of the establishments against which the crimes are committed. Maybe the way to understand the heist movie is that the only way to understand society or the establishments that symbolize that society are to understand the holes in them at which the heist is sort of laser targeted.

[A]

Right.

[B]

It's designed to survive.

[C]

It's a double mirror that gives us a big. A greater picture of society because it shows the crannies, what are the blind spots in the society. Right. The highest picture forensically attacks those things.

[A]

Attacks and in that way provides a possible figure to believe in in a kind of, like, twisted way. Right. I mean, you know how I have the bit where I'm like, we need a strong leader, which obviously I don't mean per se, but, like, the notion that no one's in charge and everyone's an idiot or like, that the people who are in charge are idiots. I think there is a certain satisfaction. And this is like in a heist gone well, in a heist gone right, that you're like, oh, someone can carry something off. I mean, no matter that it's like stealing the crown jewels or something, it's not necessarily, you know, at all socially redeeming or. But it's like, okay, someone else just like me is seeing that everybody is an idiot, but unlike me, they're able to sort of best those people in charge. So it's like an alternative morality or something. It's the morality of, like, wits.

[C]

Yeah. And like the underworld generally is a way of saying, I reject the mores of the wider culture, even the totally legit, even the competent heist that is totally welcome in the light. Right. Like, you think about sort of corporate takeovers, mergers, acquisitions. The big. These have the structure of heists, and they're told by wealthy, powerful people. And then you know, we, you know, we whatever flooded the stock or whatever the fuck. I don't know. Maybe this is more broadly the sort of. The idea of the underworld is that there are rival hierarchies to this, that there are ways to sort of achieve a different kind of glamour and esteem and to accomplish something equally impressive and Titanic, but sort of on the total flip side of everything that we're taught to glamorize and admire.

[B]

Successful heists may be fun to watch, but the ones that go awry might tell us more about who we are. This is Critics at Large from the New Yorker. We'll be right back. Famous Amos. It's a brand synonymous with chocolate chip cookies. It's also the creation of my dad, Wally Amos. When he passed away last year, I set out to understand how he became.

[A]

One of the most famous black men.

[B]

In America and how his life and our family unraveled. From Vanity Fair, this is Tough Cookie, the Wally Famous Amos Story, available wherever you get your podcasts. We've been talking about some of our favorite heist movies and the things that go right in some of them, and also the things that go wrong. I should say, quite often things do go wrong, and in the case of the Louvre robbery, they seem to have gone very wrong. Someone was apprehended at the airport trying to fly back to his native Algeria. Four people have been arrested, three of whom are suspected to be the ones who actually were on site the day of the heist. It's not like they're getting away with it. Yeah. So do you feel that this question of getting away with it is central to the heist? Do we actually want to see heisters caught as always?

[C]

You know, it depends in the big vaunted institution. And the goods are even gotten by that institution by sort of like, doubtful provenance or whatever? I think, yeah, we want to see the end of Shawshank Redemption, like somebody on the beach with sand between their toes and like, okay, this worked out for the person. But it always depends about the sort of legitimacy. Maybe that's another big theme of the heist movie. It's like, how did this institution come by its power? The museum, the government, the casino? And do we all agree that that is legitimate? You know, we all live in these contexts and kind of accept a lot of their premises. Everybody has to do this just to be alive. Yes. This bank that I get my money from may have some. But you know what? They have my money and I trust them. And I'll take out. Go to the atm. Yeah, I'm gonna get on the train. And however its finances are run, you can. Like, this premise is humming under all of our everyday lives. Right. The heist movie says, I wanna interrupt that. And so the success or failure of the heist, sort of in our attitudes toward it, start to describe for us how we feel about the great big totems of our everyday lives. I think that's very useful.

[B]

Yeah. You know, that's interesting to me. I did once see a rather enjoyable Netflix y movie about the heist at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. I mean, I don't know why I added the why. I think it was on Netflix, but it was also Netflix y. Netflix Y is an idea.

[C]

It doesn't have to be on Netflix to be Netflix y. I know what you mean.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I mean, one crazy thing about that Barley key, Netflix. Do you guys know about that heist?

[A]

Tell us. Give it, give us the. It was.

[B]

It took place on March 18, 1990, at like 12:30am and the date is relevant because it was the night of St. Patrick's Day. So the thieves had known Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum is in Boston. They knew that a night of absolute drunken revelry would be consuming the city and its police force. And they dressed as cops. And so a couple years ago, I was at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum after having seen this movie. And what I had forgotten in the time in between was that the objects, the paintings that were stolen have not been replaced, not only by themselves, but by anything else. They're just blank spaces on the wall, you know, where the frame should go. I will tell you, that had quite an emotional effect on me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I felt quite, quite bereft to see the absence of these things which should be seen. Because, yes, it was this one very rich woman, Isabella Stewart Gardner, who acquired them. But they are there for the viewing of the general public, and they are there to be entered into our own lives and shared among us. Because that is another community, the people who see things and watch things and listen to things together over generations. Like, you know, we all know we believe in this stuff. So seeing that gone for like, who knows, were they sold? Was it a particular collector who just had to have these things, who's now living with them, staring evilly in, you know, his evil lair under a snowy mountain? Or are they just under a bed because no one could get rid of them? I don't know. But it did have an effect on me. And I think that's part of what people have enjoyed about the Louvre heist. I don't think anyone has personally felt like, not the emeralds. Oh, my goodness. They are fascinating objects. They're beautiful objects, they're spectacular objects. It didn't seem to me the same thing as a work of art that people have a profound emotional connection to.

[A]

I think that. I think these two different paths that a heist might take, they scratch different itches for us. Like, if I'm watching Brad Pitt and Clooney, you know, pull the wool over Andy Garcia's eyes in a well cut suit, you know, like in Ocean's Eleven, that scratches one itch for me. Whereas if I'm watching, you know, the Mastermind or I'm watching like, you know, the Safdie's Good Time or something, where Robert Pattinson plays like a desperate petty criminal who convinces his mentally disabled brother to rob a bank. And they plan it and of course it all goes incredibly awry and then it's just like on the run. Very kind of like ugly, depressing life that shows like all the current ills of society. It's clear from the start that any plan that springs from this guy's head is gonna be a failure. You know, that scratches a different itch for me, which is it's turning a mirror to society in a way in which I can identify and worry about. Whereas a successful heist is pure escapism, you know, it's like the difference between pure entertainment versus, like the lowest stakes, you know, sad individuals trying to scramble in like the dirty subway for scraps, you know, the pulled off heist movie and the failed heist movie. It's almost like two different separate genres.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's a very good point. And often with the failed heist movie, the Failure, for obvious reasons, but still, it might be worth noting the Failure happens early on so that you can see the sordid aftermath. You know, good time. It's certainly the case. Reservoir Dogs. It's the case, yes. Even in the Mastermind, even though the Mastermind takes a lot of attention to show you how the box was made, that the paintings are gonna be slipped into, it's almost. It's not almost. It's in service of the chaos that follows when everything starts to fall apart. You know, I think another. That just reminds me that I think another pleasure of the heist movie, and the heist in general, is competency porn, careful planning, making sure. I mean, that's Ocean's Eleven all over. But there's something else that occurs to me, a kind of literary point to your social point, Vincent, that you're making about the holes that the heist exposes in institutions, making us question the institutions. I'm always interested when I just get attached to a character and when that phenomenon, that human phenomenon of caring, starts caring about another person and their fate. And of course, a good movie makes you care. It makes you want to care. A good novel does the same thing. That for me, has not happened with the Louvre heisters. Just noting my own feelings. I feel entirely different to their fate, individual plight, or. Yes, I feel maybe that will change the more we know about them. But that fictional element, that element of character and investing in someone else's success or failure, I think part of what's fun, and I use that word now with a kind of barbed meaning, like, I don't know if a heist should be fun, like a real one. I don't know.

[C]

It's.

[B]

There is something sordid even about finding it fun. And part of it is my sort of indifference to the people behind it. But that may well change the more we know. I wanted to ask you guys also. You know, it occurs to me that we live in a time of widespread criminality at the highest levels. There's a lot of what normally would be very illegal activity happening in broad daylight at all times. You know, as we're recording, the day that we're recording this, a pre pardon was handed out to Rudy Giuliani, friend of. Friend of the show. Of course.

[C]

Yes, of course.

[B]

And as we all know, George Santos, whom we spoke about in, I would call it a companion episode to this one, our Scammers episode, Very, very similar. Scammers and heisters similar, but one just feels a lot grosser than the other. You know, and there was this. I'm sorry that I have to know this. And I only know it not because I'm on Truth Social at all times, but because one of our beloved producers has enlightened me that what Trump said about Santos was that he was something of a rogue. But there are many rogues throughout our country that aren't forced to serve seven years in prison. And it's like, okay, well, you know, now I feel like we're sitting around talking about Heisters. We're loving on Alain Delon, you know, but somewhere someone else is applying this George Santos. It makes me feel dirty.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So we're living in a time of kind of sanctioned criminality that none of us can do anything about, or at least it very much feels that way. And when we are, Vincent, you were talking about institutions in a very different way. The holes of all the institutions around us are now being exposed not by a daring mastermind, but by the bluntest tools of power. How much will you pay to make your problem go away? Is a question that universities are answering, law firms are answering. We're going to see more and more institutions answering this question, I'm sure. So does this connect you to our feelings about the Luv heist? To me, it's a little bit of a sense again, of that fictional character sense of wanting to invest a Robin Hoodish like quality. Not a moral quality, but just a character quality at a time when we are really helpless against much bigger forces.

[C]

Yeah, well, you know, yes, in the case of at least the United States, I can imagine myself or imagine the mind of someone who is a fan of Donald Trump and says, yep, he's getting in there and enriching himself and his kids. Just like Nancy Pelosi, who recently announced her retirement, and others like her have steadily enriched themselves by being in Congress. That again, the society has given itself a kind of dark funhouse mirror, that the supposedly minor criminality or benign criminality of the establishment has now been doubled down upon, made sort of buffoonishly pushed to its final extent, et cetera. On the other hand, you could say from someone who abhors the Trump phenomenon. Yeah. It exposes what was always exploitable.

[B]

Right. I mean, you're making me think of the White House.

[A]

Yeah, absolutely. I was just thinking, thinking that I'm suddenly feeling very connected to the White House as it was. Whereas, you know, I didn't really. You know what I mean? It's not like I think about, like, the structure of the White House every day and how important is to me as an American, but now that it's like being torn down willy nilly to build like a gilded $300 million ballroom, I'm like, fuck, I miss, like, the George W. Bush White House or something. You know what I mean? It's making me think things that I never thought I'd really care about.

[B]

Well, there's something about it, I think, that is like a bad heist because the other thing I love about a heist is restraint. You have to know what you can get away with, and when you get too greedy, the whole thing is liable to fall apart. And what is so repulsive, among many things about what's happening, what makes it seem like a bad heist about what's happening at the White House is it's also a daytime heist. It's in broad daylight, but it's by the people in power.

[A]

Right?

[B]

So there's no sense of, aha, we're going to just, you know, take from you a little bit and reverse who.

[A]

Holds power versus punching down.

[B]

It's just. It's just taking something that is actually collective and making it individual. And that's also what I don't like about a lot of art crime. Don't like it. So do you guys think that Heisters will now be emboldened by this utterly brazen heist?

[C]

I think heisters will always be with us. I don't think that they will be. I don't think they will be emboldened by.

[A]

You will always be famous Heisters.

[C]

You'll always be. I think that, like, you know, the sort of the darker kinds of crime that we come to, like, associate with a kind of, like, thirst for fame. Like, I feel like those people are always like, our trends. But I think the heist is. We often think of the heister as a very sane person who just has a big idea.

[A]

What if it's like, smash cut to, like, a month from now, me on the COVID of the New York Times, like, being dragged into custody after, like, having attempted to, like, rob the, you know, the Charles Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa, California, for their original peanut strips.

[B]

If that happens, I will write a Broadway musical about it and it will be out in 15 years and we'll all get to go together, hopefully by then. Nomi. I'll be out.

[A]

You'll be out of the slammer.

[B]

You'll be out then. This has been Critics at Large. This week's episode was produced by Michelle o'. Brien. Alex Barish is our consulting editor. Our executive producer is Stephen Valentino. Conde Nast's head of Global Audio is Chris Bannon. Alexis Quadrato composed our theme music, and we had engineering help today from James Yost with mixing by Mike Kutchman. You can find every episode of Critics at large@new yorker.com Critics Foreign I'm Katie Drummond. I'm Wired's global editorial director.

[C]

I'm Michael Kolori, Wired's director. Of consumer tech and culture.

[B]

And I'm Lauren Good. I'm a senior correspondent at Wired. And our show, Uncanny Valley, is about the people, power, and influence of Silicon Valley. And right now, Silicon Valley and Washington have never been more intertwined. So each week, we get together to talk, talk about a big story, often at the intersection of tech and politics.

[C]

Right.

[B]

So whether we're talking about Trump, Coin Doge, or Elon Musk, we will always.

[C]

Explain how these Silicon Valley forces are.

[B]

Affecting Washington and how they affect you. Make sure you're following Uncanny Valley in your podcast app of choice so you don't miss an episode.

[A]

From prx.