The Guilty Pleasure of the Heist

Summary

Critics at Large | The New Yorker

Episode: The Guilty Pleasure of the Heist

Release Date: April 9, 2026
Hosts: Vinson Cunningham, Naomi Fry, Alexandra Schwartz

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Overview

In this lively episode, Vinson Cunningham, Naomi Fry, and Alexandra Schwartz dive into the enduring allure of the heist – both on screen and in real life – using the recent Louvre crown-jewel robbery and Kelly Reichardt’s new film The Mastermind as points of departure. They reflect on why audiences root for clever criminals, how pop culture memes major heists, and the shifting moral undertones of robbing from powerful institutions. Through comparisons to classic and lesser-known heist films, the critics unpack the genre’s deep social resonance, even as real crime gets meme-ified and fictionalized.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Real-World Inspiration: The Recent Louvre Heist

• The Magnani Rocca Foundation Heist (Parma, Italy) is top of mind—a theft involving Renoir, Cezanne, and Matisse. The hosts discuss it as evidence of the genre’s perennial pull.

• Louvre Heist Details:

  • Four masked thieves stole over $100 million in French crown jewels from the Galerie d’Apollon (04:40).
  • Details include: theft of eight jewels, a truck with a ladder, robbers dressed as workmen, and a ludicrously simple security password: “Louvre” (05:17).
  • Naomi Fry summarizes the mood:

    "It feels like...it's a serious thing on the one hand, but on the other hand, it's kind of a trifle and it has these trifling details...very kind of like clown show." (05:17)

• Imperfect Execution:

  • The heist was far from flawless: accidental evidence left behind, comical use of a slow-moving lift, and eventual captures.
  • Vincent observes:

    "I always like the parts of the plan that don't come together... It's just such a pathetic detail of, you know, human frailty." (06:15)

2. The Heist as Meme: Internet Response and Global Fascination

• Memes & Frenchness:

  • Online, the caper becomes content: from satirical “heist creative director” videos to brand memes about the equipment used.
  • Notable example: A lift company posts an ad referencing how their truck “carries your treasures up to 400 kg...quiet as a whisper.” (09:55)

• Music & Humor:

  • Social creators parody mugshots and pen pop songs.
  • Alexandra shares:

    "His name is Jake Schroeder. He writes songs, like pop style songs around ridiculous events like this... I love the combo of actual talent and absurdity." (12:17)

3. Why Do Heists Grip Us?

• The Robin Hood Fantasy & the Institutions

  • The hosts examine the audience’s pleasure in seeing power undercut – especially when the target is a big, perhaps dubious, institution.
  • Alexandra:

    "There's an almost Robin Hood like angle. We're sticking it to the man, you know, in the form of big institutions." (07:05)

• Schematic Appeal:

  • Heists follow a familiar three-act structure: assemble a team, execute the robbery, get away. Audiences unconsciously root for the cleverness and precision.
  • Alex notes:

    “All heists have three components. You gotta get a gang together, you gotta do the robbery, and then you gotta get away.” (21:39)

4. Film Review: The Mastermind by Kelly Reichardt

• Plot Overview:

  • Follows JB (Josh O’Connor), an art school dropout and “wayward son of a prominent judge.” He plans a heist of Arthur Dove’s abstract paintings from a Massachusetts museum.
  • The execution is shambolic; a day heist with a sleeping guard, unplanned use of a gun, and a series of escalating mishaps.
  • Film “reminds us of the extreme emotion in the quotidian” (Vincent, 15:02).

• Differing Critiques:

  • Vincent: Enjoys the humor and mechanics but finds O’Connor miscast and the film slow in its second half.

    “Josh O’Connor does not belong in this movie...This movie calls for anonymity.” (15:22)

  • Nomi: Appreciates Reichardt’s non-commercial sensibility, but finds the film’s aimlessness stretched “beyond comprehension.”
  • Alex: Loved the entire film; especially the scene where the protagonist tries to hide stolen art in a barn as a pig snorts.

    "I just love an escape story or where the noose is tightening and you're desperate...what I love about this movie is the apparent aimlessness." (18:01 & 18:10)

5. The Heist Movie Canon & Its Subversions

• Personal Favorites:
  • Nomi:
    • Ocean’s Eleven series and The Italian Job – classic, glamorous ensemble jobs.
    • How to Beat the High Cost of Living (1980) – three suburban moms rob a mall, reflecting real economic desperation.

    "[It] looms large in my memory...shows kind of the real socioeconomic and gender desperation that's behind this endeavor." (23:07)

  • Vincent:
    • Drive (2011) – the lonely, desperate underworld and ambiguous morality of a getaway driver.

    “The heist movie as a subgenre…is about skirting the legit world and the illegitimate world, often using skills from one in the other.” (24:43)

  • Alex:
    • Ocean’s Eleven for its charisma and joy.
    • Le Cercle Rouge (Jean-Pierre Melville, 1970): praised for its treatment of time, tension, and philosophical depth.

    "You just feel the weight of time... It's a beautiful long, maybe almost 30-minute sequence of how they're gonna get in and out of this jewelry store." (28:10)

6. Moral Ambiguity: Why We Root for the Criminals

• Social Mirrors:

  • Heist films show not just cleverness, but the “holes in society,” targeting institutional blind spots and sometimes suggesting alternative moralities or hierarchies (30:24–32:40).
  • Nomi reflects:

    “There is a certain satisfaction... you’re like, oh, someone can carry something off... It's the morality of wits." (30:38)

• Legitimacy & Empathy:

  • The legitimacy of the target influences the audience's rooting interest—e.g., rooting for casino robbers vs. those who rob public art for private gain.

• Competency Porn:

  • Audiences love the “mechanics” and “careful planning”—a celebration of skill, even if misdirected.

7. Getting Away with It: Crime, Punishment, and Satisfaction

• Real-life Heists Usually Fail:

  • The Louvre robbers were largely apprehended; heists seldom succeed as totally as their fictional counterparts (34:06).
  • The Gardner Museum heist is cited as an exception: stolen art remains missing, and the visible “absence” is described as genuinely saddening (35:46).
  • Alexandra shares:

    "That had quite an emotional effect on me. I felt quite, quite bereft to see the absence of these things which should be seen..." (35:56)

• Disappointment vs. Escapism:

  • Successful, victimless heists (Ocean’s Eleven) are pure escapism; failed or more desperate heists (The Mastermind, Good Time) scratch a different itch—revealing society’s failures rather than transcending them (39:31).

8. Heists vs. Contemporary Criminality

• Contrast with “Sanctioned” Crime:
  • The critics discuss “daytime heists” in government and business, drawing uncomfortable parallels between clever, fictional criminality and blunt real-world abuses of power (42:04–45:32).
  • Alexandra:

    "What is so repulsive…is it's also a daytime heist. It's in broad daylight, but it's by the people in power...It's just taking something that is actually collective and making it individual. And that's also what I don't like about a lot of art crime." (45:07–45:41)

  • Nomi adds a comic note imagining herself arrested for trying to steal Peanuts strips from the Charles Schulz Museum (46:26), echoing their earlier light-hearted opening.

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Notable Quotes & Moments

Opening Hypothetical: What Heist Would You Attempt?

• Naomi: “Charles Schulz Museum...an absolutely adorable heist.” (02:10–02:32)
• Alex: “A mummy from the Met...something that was already stolen.” (02:32)
• Vincent: “The Macy’s on 34th Street…I know the building well enough that I could develop a plan with the help of a team of experts... Italian Job the fuck out of that Macy’s.” (02:44–02:55)

On Internet Memes and Cultural Absurdity:

• “The idea that this is something beyond a criminal endeavor. It's an aesthetic endeavor...inflames our imaginations…links to a kind of national character.” (09:33)

On Heist Films’ Social Function:

• Vincent: “Maybe the way to understand the heist movie is that the only way to understand society...is to understand the holes in them at which the heist is sort of laser targeted.” (30:24)

On Real-World Consequences (Gardner Heist):

• Alexandra: “It did have an effect on me...The objects, the paintings that were stolen have not been replaced...They're just blank spaces on the wall.” (35:56)

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Key Timestamps

• 02:03 – Hosts’ hypothetical “dream heists”
• 04:36 – The Louvre heist recap and why it has gripped the world
• 05:17 – “Trifling” details make the crime feel ridiculous
• 08:28 – Discussion of internet meme culture and heist memes
• 11:55 – Sample of a viral heist-related pop song
• 13:23–19:42 – Review and debate of The Mastermind
• 21:39 – Heist movie formulas and personal favorites
• 29:49 – The criminal mind vs. the establishment and audience empathy
• 34:06 – Real-life fallout: Did the Louvre heist get away?
• 35:46–37:53 – The lasting ghost of the Isabella Stewart Gardner museum theft
• 39:31 – The difference between escapist and tragic heist narratives
• 42:04–45:32 – The “bad daytime heist” of modern politics and blurred lines between criminality and power
• 46:26 – Nomi’s fantasy of being caught as a Peanuts thief; closing jokes

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Tone & Dynamics

• Conversational, witty, and occasionally irreverent, with each critic bringing personal anecdotes, historical perspective, and varying degrees of skepticism and delight.
• The hosts balance intellectual insight with pop culture fandom — oscillating between the pleasures of genre and the ethical ambiguities of real-world crime.

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Conclusion

The podcast artfully blends real crime, film criticism, and social theory to explore why heists capture our imagination, what they reveal about our institutions, and how pop culture and internet memes keep the genre fresh and funny—even as real-world criminality becomes ever more surreal. Whether analyzing a bumbling group of Louvre thieves or championing/criticizing slow-burn films like The Mastermind, the episode offers both escapism and reflection, perfectly suited for both heist fans and critics of culture alike.

Transcript

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[Alex Schwartz]

Just the other day, I was looking at the news and I happened to notice that thieves have again struck a major museum. Guys, there's been another museum heist. This one happened outside of Parma, Italy, at the Magnani Rocca Foundation. Renoir was taken. Cezanne was taken. Matisse was taken. They're at it again.

[Vincent Cunningham]

The Italian Job.

[Alex Schwartz]

The Italian Job. Exactly. Wow.

[Nomi Frye]

Wow. Well, we thought this was a good opportunity to rerun one of our favorite episodes about heists.

[Vincent Cunningham]

We talked about Kelly Reichert's recent movie the Mastermind. We talked about the. The real Louvre heists that, I mean, it was. We covered a lot of ground.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah. Heists are a classic for a reason. Enjoy. Big question. Big question.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Oh, boy.

[Nomi Frye]

Okay.

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, boy. Should you be called upon to perform a heist, what would you target?

[Nomi Frye]

Okay, the first thing that comes to mind is the Charles Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa, California.

[Alex Schwartz]

Beautiful.

[Nomi Frye]

That has all the original, like, peanuts strips and.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Wow, wow, wow.

[Alex Schwartz]

And what a heist it would be. It would be an adorable heist.

[Nomi Frye]

It would be an absolutely adorable heist.

[Alex Schwartz]

I think I would do like a bit of a classic heist, like probably a mummy from the Met or something, you know, something that was already stolen. And so just steal it again. What's the harm, Vincent?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I would heist the big institution that I know best, which is The Macy's on 34th Street.

[Nomi Frye]

Wow.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I know. The escalators, the wooden old ones in the back of the store, every inch of the fragrance floor, in the middle of the first floor. I just feel that I know the building well enough that I could develop a plan with the help of a team of experts. Don't get me wrong, we could get together and Italian Job the fuck out of that Macy's. I think.

[Nomi Frye]

Would you steal like, I don't know, Calvin Klein Eternity, or would you steal, like, cash?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I think clothes are a good bet for a heist. You don't need a special guy to be like, hey, do you like this painting?

[Nomi Frye]

It's like, it's not like a Vermeer.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I got a Nautica Puffy jacket. But you wanted a Nautica Puffy jacket.

[Alex Schwartz]

And you could probably sell it right in front of that Macy's, too.

[Vincent Cunningham]

That's right.

[Alex Schwartz]

So it's a perfect scheme.

[Nomi Frye]

This is Critics at Large, a podcast from the New Yorker. I'm Nomi Frye.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I'm Vincent Cunningham.

[Alex Schwartz]

And I'm Alex Schwartz. Each week on this show, we make sense of what's happening in the culture right now and how we got here. Hello, critics.

[Nomi Frye]

Hello.

[Alex Schwartz]

Did you get here in a getaway car?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I mean, I wish, I wish. I still can't drive. I need to be gotten away with, so.

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, wow.

[Nomi Frye]

Well, you are near kids, so that.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah, well, we are feeling something in the air. We're feeling a little bit of, dare I say, fun. Some excitement. Some, some. For the first time in a long time, there's a story that has captured the attention of people all around the world. And not in a terrible, we're being crushed, life is horrible. It's the end of everything kind of way. I'm talking, of course, about the heist at the Louvre.

[Nomi Frye]

Right? It's like Zoran selection.

[Alex Schwartz]

No, I'm going right to the heist.

[Nomi Frye]

Right.

[Alex Schwartz]

On Sunday, October 19, at precisely 9:34am Four mass thieves broke into the Louvre's Galerie d' Apollon and stole over $100 million worth of French crown jewels. God damn. Eight pieces of crown jewels. And they dropped one. And the crown, Eugenie's crown is somewhere dented, getting repaired. The story has just gotten more and more elaborate and layered and frankly, hilarious. As more details have come in. I would like to know if I. Have you been following the heist? Do you have some heist details that you've been particularly enjoying?

[Nomi Frye]

I've been following the heist because it's kind of. It feels like. I know it's like a serious thing on the one hand, but on the other hand, it's kind of a trifle and it has these trifling details. You know, for instance, that the criminals, the heisters, the robbers pulled up like a truck with a ladder to go up and dressed up as like, you know, workmen. And the camera that would have captured them was conveniently like turned away from them. You know what? Actually, scratch that. I think my favorite detail, apparently the password of the security system of the Louvre that, you know, is host to like untold treasures from around the world of many centuries in is Louvre. It's like a very like keystone, you know, just very kind of like clown show.

[Alex Schwartz]

It's gorgeous.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah.

[Alex Schwartz]

Vincent, any favorite heist details?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Well, besides the sort of just brazenness of the timing and the sort of the latter, which is like, you know, just such a great visual. I always like the parts of the plan that don't come together. Like the, you know, they were thinking they were gonna blow everything up and instead they leave back behind all the evidence that's in the truck leading it seems to some parts of the capture. It's just such a pathetic detail of, you know, human frailty.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah. This was not a perfect crime.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It was not.

[Alex Schwartz]

You know, indeed it was not. And we will be talking more about that. And heists are on our brains in general because there is a film about a much smaller scale museum heist that's out in theaters right now, Kelly Reichardt's the Mastermind. It's about an art school dropout who steals four paintings from a small local museum in Massachusetts.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And.

[Alex Schwartz]

And it does not go well. So that's what we're going to be talking about today, heists and why we are drawn to all the sordid details, whether they be fictional or in real life. There's certainly a glamour to some of the places that heisters are robbing. Of course, there are the three casinos in Ocean's Eleven. There's, you know, the Louvre. And there's something really satisfying or there can be about watching a group of people execute on a complicated plan and maybe some schadenfreude involved when things go wrong. But the way people are talking about this latest heist, there is an almost Robin Hood like angle. We're sticking it to the man, you know, in the form of big institutions. And so the big question I have for us is what do we, the audience get from a heist that's today on critics at Large, the art of the heist. Let's start of course, with the Lou of heist. We've Talked about the basics. And I want to talk now about the Internet's response to this, because it's been everywhere. I will say that one thing I deeply enjoy about online culture is when it's a bunch of different people come together and just meme the shit out of something in a way that's very satisfying and can be like a real collective experience.

[Nomi Frye]

Yes.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm aware that this is not, you know, the highest form of culture, but I love it. I love it. So are there any good memes and such that you guys have seen that can give us a clue into how the culture has been interpreting this heist?

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah, I think one of the things that distinguishes this heist in the popular imagination as I've seen it so far, is its Frenchness. Right. I mean, there was one funny video that I saw on Instagram. It's a girl, Stella Webb, my impression of the Louver heist creative director. Right. So she's sitting there wearing a black turtleneck, of course, clutching a cigarette between two fingers.

[Alex Schwartz]

When I get this first call for heist, of course, immediatement to suit everybody. The brain is going to night. Dark colors, lasers, finger trips. Of course, we have seen this before. Night is ghost, daytime heist. We are changing the narrative on the heist.

[Nomi Frye]

The idea that this is something beyond a criminal endeavor. It's an aesthetic endeavor. Right. It's something that kind of like, inflames our imaginations and in a way that links to a kind of like, national character. Right. It's a French daytime heist. And the Louvre.

[Alex Schwartz]

Vincent, anything that's caught your eye?

[Vincent Cunningham]

You know, usually I don't like memes that are sort of put forward by brands. Cause it's like, so. They're always so pandering and silly. But the company that made the lift that was used in the heist with the truck, the truck with the ladder, put out a picture of their machine outside the Louvre and said, if you're in a hurry, the Bakr Agilo carries your treasures up to 400 kg at 42 meters per minute. Quiet as a whisper. It was just funny. Like, I mean, you can't buy appropriation. Great advertisement. And it's interesting, you know, usually if your product is used in something bad, you run away from it. But I thought that meme was interesting insofar as it really described how much fun people are having with this. I thought it was a very cheeky move by them. Bakker, shout out to you.

[Alex Schwartz]

Also, have you guys seen the video of the thieves descending in that lift? It's comically slow. Like they could have run down much faster. They're just going zoop, zoop, zoop, zoop, zoop. As normal cars pass by as security guards inside the museum starting to talk about something, these guys are just descending very slowly and safely down.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah. Alex, how about you?

[Alex Schwartz]

I've seen a number I enjoy including, you know, some variations on the get ready with me trope on social media where it's get ready with me to rob the Louvre. But the one that's truly won my heart is by a young creator, shall we say, who goes by Jake Amazing. And his name is Jake Schroeder. He writes songs, like pop style songs around ridiculous events like this. There are headshots of these two guys. Have you seen these headshots circulating? Yeah, I'm not even clear on whether these headshots are real or not. Yeah, France doesn't release headshots in the way. There is no kind of purple lock in France in the way. Mugshots. Thank you, mugshots. Of course this is right. But I guess I call them headshots because they do look like actors, these two guys. So here's a little pop song by Jake Amazing.

[Nomi Frye]

The two ooh dudes who robbed the

[Alex Schwartz]

Louvre are literally sexy as hell.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I too am depressed that they found

[Alex Schwartz]

the dudes, but I'm grateful for that visual.

[Nomi Frye]

Steal me, feel me, this is good. Not Louvre me.

[Alex Schwartz]

I love this. I will say why. It's because this guy is clearly talented. Like, he can write a song that frankly, I might like to hear in a long term developed Broadway show. You know, 15 years later, when all of us have forgotten this heist. It's very Broadway. I can see this appearing on Broadway, but why don't you write it? Wow, that would be a wonderful use of my time.

[Nomi Frye]

This is a chance to strike it rich.

[Alex Schwartz]

I truly can't think of a better creative endeavor for me personally. Thank you for suggesting it. I just love the combo of actual talent and absurdity that's going on here. It is perfect. It's almost like it was engineered for these ridiculous memes. But no, we must recall that in fact, this heist was engineered to make a small handful of people very, very rich, if only they could figure out how to fence their stolen items. So we have much more to say and discuss about the Lieu of Heist, But I want to move us to the Mastermind, which is Kelly Reichart's new movie starring the ubiquitous Josh o'. Connor. I'm not sad that he's ubiquitous. He's Great. He's all over the place for a reason. Vincent, could you just tell us a little bit about the plot of this film?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Um, the mastermind begins with the sort of sad, but sort of like, intriguingly, I don't know, hang dog existence of JB or James Mooney, who is the sort of wayward son of a very prominent judge. His wife is played by Alana Haim. He has two sons, and it starts with them in a museum. We see them hanging around a museum, and he surreptitiously unlocks a museum case and takes a small trinket. Then we see him getting together with a bunch of people planning to steal a bunch of paintings from a specific room. Paintings by Arthur Dove. Abstract works that still have something to do with landscape and the outdoors, but mostly abstractions. The heist happens, and it's like a shit show at one point.

[Alex Schwartz]

And it's also a day heist.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's a day heist. It prominently figures a museum guard who's always asleep. And eventually one of the heisters brings out a gun. Unplanned. They get out, barely. And from there forward, he has to go on the run.

[Alex Schwartz]

Dad.

[Nomi Frye]

Dad.

[Alex Schwartz]

Look. Like cops say, James, we've been told

[Vincent Cunningham]

that you're mixed up in this robbery. I sure don't know how you got down this robe.

[Alex Schwartz]

You got the wrong idea. I'm afraid you got some bad information.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It is like a lot of Kelly Reichert films. Reminds me a little bit of an Eric Roemer film of sort of a quotidian movie of the extreme emotion.

[Alex Schwartz]

And now I just want to know, did you like it?

[Vincent Cunningham]

Sort of.

[Alex Schwartz]

Okay, say more.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I really found lots of the first half of the movie very funny. And I will admit that after that first half, I kept speculating as to. I won't say hoping, but speculating as to when it might end.

[Nomi Frye]

Aha.

[Alex Schwartz]

Ah. I got it. I got it.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Kelly Reichert admirably gets these already interesting films made. And the bargain that she has to make is getting famous people in the movies. And like Josh o' Connor does not belong in this movie. I think it's got a casting problem. He's like. He's too famous and he's not actually like. This movie calls for anonymity, and yet I enjoyed it and thought it had a lot to offer. But I do think that the sleeping museum guard had a point.

[Alex Schwartz]

Wawa Nomi, what did you think?

[Nomi Frye]

Okay. I usually really love Kelly Reichert movies.

[Alex Schwartz]

Oh, my God. Look at the consensus forming. Nomi. It's not.

[Nomi Frye]

I was of two minds about this movie. Much like Vinson, I appreciate, admire, and am thankful for Reichert's ability to get through in this current, you know, commercial climate. Movies that aren't commercial, I do think that's important, and I usually like it. Like, for instance, I loved showing up her last movie. I do feel that a movie about a heist and a heist gone wrong and a heist whose aims are not completely apparent. And I, again, appreciate this about Kelly Reichert's movies, that there is no necessary explanation or point because life doesn't necessarily proceed to any climax or explanation, right? Or epiphany. And that's fine. But I do think here that got kind of stretched a little bit too far into, like, who is this guy? Like, I get that. The point is this movie takes place in the early 70s. It's a moment of great ideological, you know, foment. And people who are kind of of the generation of this character, you know, youngish, are feeling very strongly, you know, against the Vietnam War, against the institutions around them. And he is sort of like, doesn't seem to be part of that. But then also, it's unclear what drives this heist. You know, why are we following this person? Why Arthur Dove? Again, it doesn't need to be some, like, great spiritual revelation or some. But the kind of, like, pointlessness of the whole thing, which I know was. The point was, like, stretched a little bit beyond comprehension for me.

[Alex Schwartz]

You guys ready?

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, my God.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Give it to us.

[Alex Schwartz]

Loved every second of this movie. Every frame.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Incredible.

[Alex Schwartz]

Every minute, every music cue. Loved it.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Music was very good.

[Nomi Frye]

I will say it's a beautiful movie.

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm here to speak for it, and I see your criticisms and I understand your criticisms, and I'm here to defend the movie from them. Okay, Sorry. That came on really strong.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Nope.

[Alex Schwartz]

I love your points of view. I love your points of view. I just happen to love this movie. And I was very surprised by loving this movie because, Vincent, you're right. Kelly Reichart can be a bit of a slow burn. But I was on the absolute edge of my seat at 11am with all of the other four people at the Angelica Cinema. What I love about this movie is all the. There are a few things. One is that I just love an escape story or where the noose is tightening and you're desperate. The guy is desperate. How are they gonna get out of this situation? But the other thing I do like about it is the apparent aimlessness of it, which, if you think about it and you poke at it, I Think there are some answers. Like there is an answer in the MO about why he chose these paintings because they were important to his mentor in art school. But, like, it doesn't matter that much. I think it's about someone in search of a life and in search of an identity and in search of something to do. He is a dropout, but he's not a political dropout in the ways of so many of the people of the time. And there's so much political that happens in this movie. There's constant reference to the Vietnam War. It takes place in the year 1970. There's reference to the bombings in Cambodia. There's a big climactic protest march. And this guy is just kind of a regular failure. I loved how the attentiveness that Kelly Reichardt showed to the mechanics of the heist because that. And we'll get to this in a second, is what can be so exciting about a great heist movie. And here all those mechanics just show you what goes awry. There's also a long sequence of him trying to hide the paintings in a barn. The camera does not cut. You're just watching him.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I love that scene.

[Alex Schwartz]

And go down a ladder as a pig snorts away. Trying to hide these works of art with no idea what he's going to do with them. It is a film about a gross incompetent who could have been a contender. And I love that. The heist has been a staple of movies since the very beginning of the 20th century. What keeps us coming back to stories of elaborate robberies? That's after the break on Critics at Large from the New York. Hey, it's Anna Sale, host of Death, Sex and Money, the show from Slate, about the things we think about a lot and need to talk about more. Many of us have something going on behind closed doors. Like a listener we called Elizabeth, who told us she's a hoarder. I see mess beyond probably what most

[Nomi Frye]

people think of when they think of messages.

[Alex Schwartz]

We'll work through it all together on Death, Sex and Money. Listen, wherever you get podcasts. So we've been talking about two heists. The Louvre heist, which every single person on planet Earth is following, and the mastermind, which, as we say, is a bit more selective. I would urge people to see it. Part of the fun, I would say, of especially the heist memes around the Louvre is the fact that the tropes and the story beats they're playing off of are so familiar. I mean, all heists have three components. You gotta Get a gang together, you gotta do the robbery, and then you gotta get away. So I think we're all following it in a lot of ways, knowing those beats because of the movies. So I wanted to ask you guys, what are some of your favorite heist movies? Your personal heist canon, if you will.

[Nomi Frye]

So as. As I was prepping for this. For this episode, I was like, yeah, of course. I've watched like Ocean's Eleven and then like the, you know, 11 sequels, 12, 13, eight to that movie and the Italian Job. You know, the kind of classic, like. Kind of like gentlemen's. Like a glamorous gentleman's occupation, right? The kind of like, oh, it's glamorous. You know, these people are all like the best at what they do, right? And I suddenly remember this movie from childhood. I don't know if you guys are familiar with it. It's from 1980. It's a minor comedy. It's called how to Beat the High Cost of Living.

[Alex Schwartz]

I don't know this movie.

[Nomi Frye]

It's like so random. Suddenly I was like, wait. That was actually really, like, fascinated me when I was a child. Like, I watch it on TV in the 80s sometime. It's three women, a young Jessica Lange. Okay, Jane Curtin and Susan St. James.

[Alex Schwartz]

All right?

[Nomi Frye]

It's about these three women living in Oregon. Suburban moms who are all struggling in their way. So it's 1980. It's, you know, 70s feminism. You know, second wave feminism is in the air. But women are still fucked over, right? So these are all women who have been fucked over and they can't make ends meet.

[Alex Schwartz]

Elaine. Three girls who are in the same trouble as millions of Americans. I need more money.

[Nomi Frye]

I cannot swing it on $200 a

[Alex Schwartz]

month child support anymore. Why don't we just become hookers and rent a motel room?

[Nomi Frye]

We'd starve to death. There's 12,000 college girls in this town giving it away. One day they did to the system what the system's been doing to them, and they decide to pull off a heist. And the heist happens in the local mall.

[Alex Schwartz]

So I have a question. Is it good?

[Nomi Frye]

It's, you know, it's a minor movie, ok? But I remember it. It looms large in my memory. Kind of fun and games and kind of stupid and silly. And they manage to. They carry it off like it's fine. But it also shows kind of the real, kind of like socioeconomic and kind of gender desperation that's behind this endeavor in a way that's very true to the moment it came out in. And so I think that is something that sometimes, not always, but sometimes happens with depictions of heists.

[Vincent Cunningham]

One of my favorites, a kind of smaller scale picture that I really like, is the movie Drive 2011 starring Ryan Gosling. Gosling, directed by Nicholas Vinding Refn. And it is about a stunt driver called Driver throughout the movie who also sort of moonlights as a getaway driver.

[Alex Schwartz]

If I drive for you, you give

[Vincent Cunningham]

me a time and a place. I give you a five minute window. Anything happens in that five minutes and

[Alex Schwartz]

I'm yours no matter what. I don't sit in while you're running it down.

[Vincent Cunningham]

I don't carry a gun.

[Alex Schwartz]

I drive.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Interestingly, I think the heist movie as a subgenre of the crime movie is sort of about skirting the legit world and the illegitimate world and often using the skills and talents that are developed in one and importing it to the other. In this case, very talented driver is sort of deep in this underworld. That's just a part of it. He just is a hired gun as a. As a getaway driver. He is sort of getting to know this woman, one of his neighbors and her kid. But her ex gets out of jail and he's pulled into a heist situation with the ex, whose name is standard, and they go out to try to rob a pawn shop of, like, tens of thousands of dollars. There's a heist, including another accomplice who is played by Christina Hendricks.

[Nomi Frye]

I forgot about that part.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It goes wrong, it goes bad. And the rest of the picture is a kind of aftermath of the failed heist. So again, the sort of sorrow of an underworld and its inhabitants, people who are desperate. But it's also just a very, very, very stylish movie. The cars look great. The lights are all very sort of like, ambient. And, um, it's a really beautiful movie about a really desperate situation.

[Alex Schwartz]

Love it.

[Vincent Cunningham]

How about you?

[Alex Schwartz]

Well, I do think Ocean's 11, which we keep mentioning, is one of the great films. I rewatched it this weekend. It is so fun and so good and so satisfying and just, like, oozes charisma from every shot. But the film I want to talk about is another tremendous film that I really think everyone should see. If you're in New York City, you can go see it soon at Film Forum, which is doing a series about French heists, which I think will be really fun.

[Nomi Frye]

Ooh la la.

[Alex Schwartz]

And it's called Le Circle Rouge. The Red Circle.

[Nomi Frye]

Ah, yes.

[Alex Schwartz]

By Jean Pierre Melville, Alain Delon. So this movie is so fantastic and complex and brilliantly plotted and timed that I think it will really scratch the itch of anyone who loves a heist film. It starts with a criminal, Coret, who's played by Alain Delon, who's about to get out of jail after five years. He gets a tip from his guard that there is a fancy TR jewelry store in Paris that this prison guard has an in at that could be robbed, should one be willing to do such a thing. This plotline crosses with a criminal who is running away from a police inspector, and their paths cross and they begin to put a team together for this jewelry store heist. And at the same time, they're being hunted. They're being hunted by the police inspector who's after the criminal who got away. So it's layers on layers on layers. One thing I love about this movie is the way time works in it. Because, of course, a heist happens. Like we all are so fixated on the louvre heist. The 3 minutes and 54 seconds, whatever it was that they were actually inside, you know, it's. It's for film. It's great because it's a real time endeavor. You're trying to show how long this crazy thing takes because it all needs to be very precisely timed. In Ocean's Eleven, there's the whole thing where they have the Chinese acrobat who's inside of this sealed container, who will actually suffocate after 30 minutes if they can't get him out. So one thing I love about Le Circle Rouge is you just feel the weight of time. You feel it during the heist itself. It's a beautiful long, I would say, maybe almost 30 minute sequence of how they're gonna get in and out of this jewelry store.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah.

[Alex Schwartz]

And in that sense, it's very satisfying in the sense that you sympathize with everyone, including the police inspector who has know me. You would love this. Three cats who he dotes on. Not cats who he calls his babies.

[Nomi Frye]

Oh, baby.

[Alex Schwartz]

It's very stylish and it's beautiful. And I also really felt like it would be a good double viewing, I think, with the Mastermind. One was actually made in 1970, the other takes place in 1970. And there's a kind of. There's a sort of jazzy rhythm to each. The way silence works in Le Sarc. Le Rouge. It's not a movie that over soundtracks, music is not playing at all times. But when music goes, something significant is happening. And the same is true in the Mastermind with this Kind of jazzy score that peters out as things go increasingly wrong. It's fabulous, it's satisfying, and it's also philosophical about the darker nature of man, what leads someone to commit crime. And that's also what I'm wondering for you guys. You know, we talked before about how fun heists are, I think, generally because they're often seen as being a victimless crime. Like Ocean's Eleven is, again, the perfect example. They're hitting three casinos who are run by the guy who took George Clooney's girl. We don't like him. We want him to lose. But we also feel very satisfied that this $160 million take is not coming out of, you know, other people's wallets. No one is going to have to starve because of this heist.

[Nomi Frye]

Just Andy Garcia.

[Alex Schwartz]

Just Andy Garcia. So is there something about the criminality of the heist film that makes us sympathize more with the criminal? Is it like a way into the criminal mind? Is that uncomfortable? Is that okay?

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's about the criminal mind, but it's also about exactly what you mentioned. What is the nature of an establishment? And it seems that the competencies involved in the planning of the heist sort of interestingly rival the nature of the establishments against which the crimes are committed. Maybe the way to understand the heist movie is that the only way to understand society or the establishments that symbolize that society are to understand the holes in them at which the heist is sort of laser targeted.

[Nomi Frye]

Right.

[Alex Schwartz]

It's designed to.

[Vincent Cunningham]

It's a double mirror that gives us a greater picture of society because it shows the crannies, what are the blind spots in the society. Right. The heist picture forensically attacks those things.

[Nomi Frye]

Attacks, and in that way provides a possible figure to believe in in a kind of, like, twisted way. Right. I mean, you know how I have the bit where I'm like, we need a strong leader, which obvious. I don't mean per se, but, like, the notion that no one's in charge and everyone's an idiot or like that the people who are in charge are idiots. I think there is a certain satisfaction. And this is like in a heist gone. Well, in a heist gone right, that you're like, oh, someone can carry something off. I mean, no matter that it's like stealing the crown jewels or something, it's not necessarily at all socially redeeming, but it's like, okay, someone else just like me is seeing that everybody is an idiot, but unlike me, they're able to Sort of best those people in charge. So it's like an alternative morality or something. It's the morality of wits. Yeah.

[Vincent Cunningham]

And the underworld generally is a way of saying, I reject the mores of the wider culture, even the totally legit, even the competent heist that is totally welcome in the light. Right. Like, you think about sort of corporate takeovers, mergers, acquisitions. These have the structure of heists, and they're told by wealthy, powerful people. And then, you know, we. You know, we. Whatever. I don't. The stock or whatever the fuck. I don't know. Maybe this is more broadly the sort of. The idea of the underworld is that there are rival hierarchies to this, that there are ways to sort of achieve a different kind of glamour and esteem and to accomplish something equally impressive and Titanic, but sort of on the total flip side of everything that we're taught to glamorize and admire.

[Alex Schwartz]

Successful heists may be fun to watch, but the ones that go awry might tell us more about who we are. This is Critics at Large from the New Yorker. We'll be right back. Aw isn't something we need to travel for. It's something waiting for us in everyday life, whether in a city street or a moment with a work of art. I'm Dacher Keltner, host of the Science of Happiness podcast. Join me for Cities of Awe, a special series on how our public spaces can spark awe, wonder, and enhance the quality of public life.

[Vincent Cunningham]

You can find us wherever you listen to your podcasts.

[Alex Schwartz]

We've been talking about some of our favorite heist movies and the things that go right in some of them, and also the things that go wrong. I should say, quite often things do go wrong, and in the case of the Louvre robbery, they seem to have gone very wrong. Someone was apprehended at the airport trying to fly back to his native Algeria. Four people have been arrested, three of whom are suspected to be the ones who actually were on site the day of the heist. It's not like they're getting away with it.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Alex Schwartz]

So do you feel that this question of getting away with it is central to the heist? Do we actually want to see heisters caught as always?

[Vincent Cunningham]

You know, it depends in the big vaunted institution. And the goods are even gotten by that institution by sort of, like, doubtful provenance or whatever? I think, yeah, we want to see the end of Shawshank Redemption. Like, you know, somebody on the beach with sand between their toes and, like, okay, you know, this worked out for the person, but it Always depends about the sort of legitimacy. Maybe that's another big theme of the heist movie. It's like, how did this institution come by its power? The museum, the government, the casino? And do we all agree that that is legitimate? You know, we all live in these contexts and kind of accept a lot of their premises. Everybody has to do this just to be alive. Yes. This bank that I get my money from may have some. But you know what? They have my money and I trust them. And I'll take out. Go to the atm. Yeah, I'm gonna get on the train. And however its finances are run, you can. Like, this premise is humming under all of our everyday lives. Right. The heist movie says, I wanna interrupt that. And so the success or failure of the heist, sort of in our attitudes toward it, start to describe for us how we feel about the great big totems of our everyday lives. I think that's very useful.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah, you know, that's interesting to me. I did once see a rather enjoyable Netflix y movie about the heist at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum. I mean, I don't know why I added the why. I think it was on Netflix, but it was also Netflix y. It was funny.

[Vincent Cunningham]

No, Netflix Y is a Netflix. It doesn't have to be on Netflix to be Netflix.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah, I mean, one crazy thing about that garlic Netflix. Do you guys know about that heist?

[Nomi Frye]

Tell us. Give. Give us the.

[Alex Schwartz]

It took place on March 18, 1990, at like 12:30am and the date is relevant because it was the night of St. Patrick's Day. So thieves had known. Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum is in Boston. They knew that a night of absolute drunken revelry would be consuming the city and its police force. And they dressed as cops. And so a couple years ago, I was at the Isabella Stewart Gardner Museum after having seen this movie. And what I had forgotten in the time in between was that the objects, the paintings that were stolen have not been replaced, not only by themselves, but by anything else. They're just blank spaces on the wall, you know, where the frame should go. I will tell you, that had quite an emotional effect on me. Yeah, I felt quite, quite bereft to see the absence of these things which should be seen, because, yes, it was this one very rich woman, Isabella Stewart Gardner, who acquired them. But they are there for the viewing of the general public, and they are there to be entered into our own lives and shared among us, because that is another community. The people who see things and watch things and listen to things together over generations. Like, you know, we all know we believe in this stuff. So seeing that gone for like, who knows, were they sold? Was it a particular collector who just had to have these things, who's now living with them, staring evilly in his evil lair under a snowy mountain? Or are they just under a bed because no one could get rid of them? I don't know. But it did have an effect on me. And I think that's part of what people have enjoyed about the Louvre heist. I don't think anyone has personally felt like, not the emeralds. Oh my goodness. They are fascinating objects. They're beautiful objects, they're spectacular objects. It didn't seem to me the same thing as a work of art that people have a profound emotional connection to.

[Nomi Frye]

I think that, I think these two different paths that a heist might take, they scratch different itches for us. Like if I'm watching Brad Pitt and Clooney, you know, pull the wool over Andy Garcia's eyes in a well cut suit, you know, like in Ocean's Eleven, that scratches one itch for me. Whereas if I'm watching, you know, the Mastermind or I'm watching like, you know, the Safdie's Good Time or something, where Robert Pattinson plays like a desperate petty criminal who convinces his mentally disabled brother to rob a bank. And they plan it and of course it all goes incredibly awry and then it's just like on the run. Very kind of like ugly, depressing life that shows like all the current ills of society. It's clear from the start that any plan that springs from this guy's head is gonna be a failure. You know, that scratches a different itch for me, which is it's turning a mirror to society in a way in which I can identify and worry about. Whereas a successful heist is pure escapism, you know, it's like the difference between pure entertainment versus like the lowest stakes, you know, sad individuals trying to scramble in like the dirty subway for scraps, you know, the pulled off heist movie and the failed heist movie. It's almost like two different separate genres.

[Alex Schwartz]

Yeah, I think that's a very good point. And often with the failed heist movie, the Failure, for obvious reasons, but still, it might be worth noting the failure happens early on so that you can see the sordid aftermath. You know, good time. It's certainly the case. Reservoir Dogs. It's the case even in the Mastermind, Even though the Mastermind takes a lot of attention to show you how the box was made, that the paintings are gonna be slipped into. It's almost. It's not almost. It's in service of the chaos that follows when everything starts to fall apart. You know, I think another. That just reminds me that I think another pleasure of the heist movie, and the heist in general, is competency porn. Careful planning, making sure. I mean, that's Ocean's Eleven all over. But there's something else that occurs to me, a kind of literary point to your social point, Vincent, that you're making about the holes that the heist exposes in institutions, making us question the institutions. I'm always interested when I just get attached to a character and when that phenomenon, that human phenomenon of caring starts caring about another person and their fate. And of course, a good movie makes you care. It makes you want to care. A good novel does the same thing. That for me, has not happened with the Louvre heisters. Just noting my own feelings. I feel entirely different to their fate, individual plight, or. Yes, I feel maybe that will change the more we know about them. But that fictional element, that element of character and investing in someone else's success or failure, I think part of what's fun, and I use that word now with a kind of barbed meaning, like, I don't know if a heist should be fun, like a real one. I don't know.

[Nomi Frye]

It's.

[Alex Schwartz]

There is something sordid even about finding it fun. And part of it is my sort of indifference to the people behind it. But that may well change the more we know. I wanted to ask you guys also. You know, it occurs to me that we live in a time of widespread criminality at the highest levels. There's a lot of what normally would be very illegal activity happening in broad daylight at all times. You know, as we're recording, the day that we're recording this, a pre pardon was handed out to Rudy Giuliani, friend of. Friend of the show. Of course.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yes, of course.

[Alex Schwartz]

And as we all know, George Santos, whom we spoke about in. I would call it a companion episode to this one, our Scammers episode.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Very, very similar.

[Alex Schwartz]

Scammers and heisters similar. But one just feels a lot grosser than the other. You know, and there was this. I'm sorry that I have to know this. And I only know it not because I'm on Truth Social at all times, but because one of our beloved producers has enlightened me that what Trump said about Santos was that he was something of a rogue. But there are many rogues throughout our country that aren't forced to Serve seven years in prison. And it's like, okay, well, you know, now I feel like we're sitting around talking about Heisters. We're loving on Alain Delon, you know, but somewhere someone else is applying this George Santos. It makes me feel. It makes me feel dirty.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah.

[Alex Schwartz]

So we're living in a time of kind of sanctioned criminality that none of us can do anything about, or at least it very much feels that way. And when we are, Vincent, you were talking about institutions in a very different way. The holes of all the institutions around us are now being exposed not by a daring mastermind, but by the bluntest tools of power. How much will you pay to make your problem go away? Is a question that universities are answering, law firms are answering. We're going to see more and more institutions answering this question, I'm sure. So does this connect to you, to our feelings about the Louvreist? To me, it's a little bit of a sense again of that fictional character sense of wanting to invest a Robin Hoodish like, quality. Not a moral quality, but just a character quality at a time when we are really helpless against much bigger forces.

[Vincent Cunningham]

Yeah, well, you know, yes. In the case of at least the United States, I can imagine myself or imagine the mind of someone who is a fan of Donald Trump and says, yup, he's getting in there and enriching himself and his kids. Just like Nancy Pelosi, who recently announced her retirement, and others like her have steadily enriched themselves by being in Congress. That again, the society has given itself a kind of dark fun house mirror, that the supposedly minor criminality or benign criminality of the establishment has now been doubled down upon, made sort of buffoonishly pushed to its final extent, et cetera. On the other hand, you could say from someone who abhors the Trump phenomenon. Yeah. It exposes what was always exploitable.

[Alex Schwartz]

Right. I mean, you're making me think of the White House.

[Nomi Frye]

Yeah, absolutely. I was just thinking, thinking that I'm suddenly feeling very connected to the White House as it was. Whereas, you know, I didn't really. You know what I mean? It's not like I think about, like, the structure of the White House every day and how important is to me as an American. But now that it's like being torn down willy nilly to build like a gilded $300 million ballroom, I'm like, fuck, I miss, like, the George W. Bush White House or something. You know what I mean? It's making me think things that I never thought I'd really care about.

[Alex Schwartz]

Well, there's something about it. I think that is like a bad heist. Because the other thing I love about a heist is restraint. You have to know what you can get away with, and when you get too greedy, the whole thing is liable to fall apart. And what is so repulsive, among many things about what's happening, what makes it seem like a bad heist about what's happening at the White House is it's also a daytime heist. It's in broad daylight, but it's by the people in power.

[Nomi Frye]

Right.

[Alex Schwartz]

So there's no sense of, aha, we're going to just, you know, take from you a little bit and reverse who

[Nomi Frye]

holds power versus punching down.

[Alex Schwartz]

It's just. It's just taking something that is actually collective and making it individual. And that's also what I don't like about a lot of art crime. Don't like it. So do you guys think that Heisters will now be emboldened by this utterly brazen heist?

[Vincent Cunningham]

I think Heisters will always be with us. I don't think that they will be. I don't think they will be emboldened.

[Nomi Frye]

You will always be famous Heisters.

[Vincent Cunningham]

You'll always be. I think that, like, you know, the sort of the darker kinds of crime that we come to, like, associate with a kind of, like, thirst for fame. Like, I feel like those people are always our trend. But I think the heist is we often think of the heister as a very sane person who just has a big idea.

[Nomi Frye]

What if it's like, smash cut to, like, a month from now, me on the COVID of the New York Times, like, being dragged into custody after, like, having attempted to, like, rob the, you know, the Charles Schulz Museum in Santa Rosa, California, for their original peanut strips.

[Alex Schwartz]

If that happens, I will write a Broadway musical about it and it will be out in 15 years and we'll all get to go together. Hopefully by then. Nomi, I'll be out.

[Nomi Frye]

You'll be out of the slammer.

[Alex Schwartz]

You'll be out then. This has been Critics at Large. This week's episode was produced by Michelle o'. Brien. Alex Barish is our consulting editor. Rhiannon Corby is our senior producer. Our executive producer is Steven Valentino. Our show is mixed by Mike Kutchman. Alexis Quadrato composed our theme music, and we had engineering help today from James Yost. You can find every episode of Critics at [e-mail] critics. We will see you next week.

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[Nomi Frye]

From prx.