Kyle Tequila (2:42)

Today.

Laura (2:43)

I'm sitting down with Kyle Tequila, the creator and host of Crook county, to dig a little deeper into his process of turning a personal life story into a top 10 podcast. Before we get started, this interview is full of spoilers. So if you haven't listened to the show yet, I recommend that you pause, go binge the entire season on Tenderfit, and then pop back in. Hey, Kyle, thanks for sitting down with me today.

Kyle Tequila (3:11)

Yeah, Happy to be here, Laura.

Laura (3:12)

I'm really excited to connect. And, you know, this show is so personal to you that I feel like I already kind of have a sense of who you are, as do I imagine everybody else that's listened, especially on Tenderfoot plus, where we just get to binge the entire story in 24 hours, which is what I did.

Kyle Tequila (3:31)

Wow.

Laura (3:31)

It's really engaging, you know, and I'm excited.

Kyle Tequila (3:34)

This whole thing's been a whirlwind. I'm kind of speechless, so. But thank you very much. It's amazing to hear stuff like that.

Laura (3:39)

So you're a film producer and you have a lot of other creative outlets, not necessarily podcasting. So why did you decide to create this show as a podcast and not as a film?

Kyle Tequila (3:51)

That's a good question. Well, yeah, I've been producing movies since 2013. And anyone who is in the industry knows just how much of a behemoth producing a movie is and how awful and stressful and how much of a nightmare it is and how it can collapse at any moment. And if you're not fully committed and like 247 on with your brain and you can't live any other life except getting this movie off the ground, it's exhausting and it's a lot. And so I'd done probably seven movies or so in some kind of producer capacity. And I'd also been editing movies and working as what's called like a post production super on a bunch of other movies. I was just really, really burned out. I think by the time this story really started to kind of come into fruition production wise. And I'd finished two movies in a span of two years, and they both were coming out in theaters with pretty significant releases in like May and June of 2020. Well, which we all know, the theaters were completely closed because of COVID So both those movies just were completely decimated at the box office. And it was like I killed myself trying to get those two movies made. And so like just all that happening and then it just kind of going nowhere. Just. It really hurt. It really was a big blow. And I just wanted nothing to do with the industry for a while. And, you know, I had been recording the interviews with my dad on this show for a while. And, you know, the seed of the idea to turn it into a podcast, besides just being kind of like a family archive, really, which was my original intent, was just to get these stories. Cause I had no idea how long he had left to live. Cause he was such a mess.

Laura (5:31)

Yeah.

Kyle Tequila (5:32)

And so I just wanted to have them so I can share them with my family and my son when he was old enough. I didn't really listen to podcasts. I think I probably listened to Serial when it came out, the first one. Cause it was just like this huge, you know, nationwide thing that everyone was talking about. But I didn't really. I wasn't really into the podcast thing. And then for some reason, someone told me about up and Vanished season one, and I listened to that and I think that kind of blew me away because it wasn't just people talking. Like, there was so much production value, that pain put into it, you know, so much sound effects. And he really took the time to make it sound good and get the right microphone and mix it and, you know, getting makeup and vanity set to do the music on that. It just felt like a theater of the mind. It felt like a movie. And so that was when I go, oh my God, I could do that with Crook County. Or it wasn't Crook county at the time. It was just with my dad's fucked up story. And so then I started developing it as a podcast series at that time. And then when Covid hit and I was just so burned out of the industry, it was the perfect time for me to really, to do the show, to make it happen. And so I had a pilot episode prior to Covid actually done, sent it to Mavs. Actually after I heard up and Vanished and I heard that score, I was still producing one of those movies that was coming out in 2020 and I wanted him to score the movie. And so that's. I initially reached out to him for that and he, you know, we became kind of fast friends. And then when I had the pilot for the podcast, I sent it to him and he was like, this is great. I'm going to send it to, to the guys, if you don't mind. I was like, absolutely. So. And then they loved it and they came to LA and we met up at a coffee shop and we struck a deal and. And then we, we seemed to be off to the races. But I, I was still so burned out. Even though mentally I wanted to do this podcast. I, like just physically couldn't sit down and edit. Like, I was just so done. And so nothing really happened until 2023 when I kind of like cleared that cache, you know, of like whatever disappointment and pain and anguish and, and, and started getting creative again and just started cutting just crushing episodes, just really getting into it. And I was, I was just in the zone and pumped out a Bunch of episodes. And I called Donald up, I'm like, you still want to do the show? And he's like, yeah. So over the next year we finished the show and you sold it and we developed a plan to. To get it out there. And now here we are. It's very exciting. So it's a long journey to say the least. But I think it was totally worth the wait to wait till now.

Laura (8:11)

Absolutely. And I mean the fact that the show, the actual production, once you got into the weeds of building each episode and then producing each episode, the fact that that took about a year makes a lot of sense to me because it is a very highly produced in a good way show. You know, there's so many elements to it. There's so many sound clips that you pull in from news and like it really brings people into the world that you grew up in and that your dad was living in. And I think, you know, if you'd put a show together in three months, it obviously would not have had nearly as many layers or depth. So yeah, that time really shows.

Kyle Tequila (8:49)

Yeah, it's a lot of. Because it's really just me in a room.

Laura (8:53)

Yeah.

Kyle Tequila (8:54)

Doing all this by myself. So it's literally just a lot of me just kind of like just staring into space and letting my brain go. Kind of fucking trying to pull threads and like make a story happen. And it's a lot of self reflection too. So yeah, it does take all that time to really get it right.

Laura (9:09)

Another creative outlet that you have in the show is your music. I think it's a really awesome Easter egg for listeners. I didn't realize initially that that was your band that was in the soundtrack. Can you talk a little bit about Starry Eyes's music and the songs that you featured in Crook county and how that all fits into the show?

Kyle Tequila (9:29)

Yeah, it's kind of like one of those things. Another reason why I'm glad it didn't happen before 2020 when I first started doing the pilot is because I didn't have a band. I'd always been in music when I was a kid. Like that was the thing that I wanted to do. I got my first guitar at 10 and I started an original band at 10. We were called Malice and it was just really heavy, dark alternative for 10 year olds. For 10 year old, long hair and black fingernails. I was a little goth. Kidding. And I played bands all throughout high school. I was in punk bands and I was in the Chicago scene that spawned Fall Out Boy and the Academy Is. And we were playing Shows with Fall Out Boy and garages and VFWs and community senators. And we had this amazing punk rock scene, obviously that turned into this huge nationwide phenomenon. And in the early 2000s it just went crazy. But by the time it all went crazy, my dad was dealing with the heroin addiction and our family was falling apart. And it was like, I don't have the freedom anymore to like go out and be like a rock star and, you know, or like pretend to be a rock star and. And like, you know, be completely irresponsible and be broke and like, I had to get a fucking job. And I got into film, which is almost as dumb and.

Laura (10:43)

But it's glorified.

Kyle Tequila (10:44)

There's at least kind of like jobs, you know. And so yeah, I got into film and in college I went to siu Southern Illinois University. I met this group of nerds that had this TV show that aired on the Midwest PBS affiliate. And it was like a docu series show. Like they would record these little five minute documentaries. They drive all over the country, they'd find these crazy stories, they'd interview them, they'd shoot them, they'd come back, they'd edit it themselves and then we packaged it into this little show and it would air on pbs. And it was an amazing show and it was an amazing experience and we ended up winning a ton of Emmys and it was a huge eye opener. Like I could actually do this as a career. And so it gave me a huge confidence boost. And I met a lot of the people that I ended up working with, like, in my career through that show. Like, a lot of these people moved to la. And before I moved to la, I actually moved to Atlanta. That's where I started my like real career as an editor. I was editing a bunch of stuff for TNT and TBS and movie trailers and whatnot. But back to the music thing. So music kind of went away. The guitar basically was collecting dust on the wall. And then, same thing, Covid hits and I'm completely burned out. And I. I hate everyone. And. And I'm like, I just like, what am I doing with my life? And. And I started playing guitar again. And it was like this spark just lit and it was like, oh yeah, I used to fucking love music. And so I just like, couldn't. I. I became obsessed and I'm like, I need to. I need to write songs, I need to do something. And so I went on Craigslist, good old Craigslist. And I found this dude, John, who had like, it was him and a Drummer. And they had a bunch of songs that they had written, but it was just instrumentals. And they were like, looking for a vocalist singer for like three years. And I, you know, craigslisted them back and I'm like, hey, send me your demos. And they sent me the demos, and they were great. They were the songs. And so I started writing the lyrics. And so, yeah, like, the songs that are in the main titles and the end titles, Aloha Crush and no Show, a lot of that, I mean, all of it really is about. Is about those issues and about my dad's heroin addiction, about me trying to put him through rehab, about him telling me this fucked up story about his life, and how am I supposed to deal with that shit? Like, what does that mean? All that. So when this whole thing actually came together in 2023 as a show, the music was there, the podcast was there, and it was just this perfect marriage to kind of like, put everything together in one package and completely just like purge all. It was like just the biggest therapy session ever to get it out. So I feel so light. I feel like I can fly right now. Just so happy to have all this shit off my back.

Laura (13:17)

So note to anyone who's dealing with really tough family stories. Make a podcast, publish it to millions of people and.

Kyle Tequila (13:23)

And write an album.

Laura (13:24)

And write an album. Yeah. Music is a really incredible way to process anything.

Kyle Tequila (13:30)

Absolutely.

Laura (13:31)

Is there anywhere that people can go and just listen to these songs a little more in depth, since we get clips of them in the show, but we don't really get the full start to finish song?

Kyle Tequila (13:39)

Yeah, I mean, anywhere you stream music, they're out there. Spotify, Apple Music, whatever, you know, quick plug.

Laura (13:45)

And the band is called Starry Eyes.

Kyle Tequila (13:47)

Starry Eyes. We have two albums out.

Laura (13:49)

Great.

Larison Campbell (13:50)

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

Laura (13:58)

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

Larison Campbell (14:00)

Yazoo clay eats everything. So things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

Nancy Grace (14:14)

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

Larison Campbell (14:17)

Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

Kyle Tequila (14:22)

It was my family's mystery.

Larison Campbell (14:25)

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

Kyle Tequila (14:29)

Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information.

Larison Campbell (14:32)

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

Kyle Tequila (14:38)

The story is much more complicated and nuanced. Than that.

Larison Campbell (14:43)

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Andrea Zuklay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Israel Gutierrez (14:53)

Ever wondered what you would do if you found yourself lost in the wild? In the desert, the jungle, or the mountains? Would you make the right choices to stay alive? Introducing Real Survival Stories, the new podcast from Noiza. These are the astonishing tales of ordinary people thrown into extraordinary situations. People suddenly forced to fight for their lives.

Jeremy Scott (15:17)

How the heck did I get here? And how the heck am I going to get out of here? Am I going to be a pile of bones in the Australian outback? Or am I going to make it out?

Kyle Tequila (15:26)

I heard the nylon dragging against the ice, so I was going faster and.

Payne (15:30)

Faster, and all of a sudden, boom.

Nancy Grace (15:35)

This is the worst place you can be in a lightning storm. I didn't know if I'd make it through the night. If I live until morning, I will live my greatest dreams.

Israel Gutierrez (15:46)

Listen to real Survival stories. Search real survival stories in your podcast app and hit follow.

Nancy Grace (15:52)

For weekly episodes, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Breaking news tonight, the return of Tot Mom. It feels like a dirt sandwich in my mouth. TikTok stardom ahead as Casey Anthony haters beg. Please go away, guys. Please don't miss this. Please join us. Listen to crime Stories with Nancy grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Laura (16:23)

You talked about initially gathering these stories and interviewing your dad with the intention of this being a family archive, not something public.

Kyle Tequila (16:31)

Yeah.

Laura (16:32)

Can you talk a little bit about that process of when you actually first started interviewing him and what that looked like, and then if that shifted as you decided this was gonna become something for the public rather than just for your own family's kind of internal processing.

Kyle Tequila (16:50)

When I first learned about all this, besides the heroin, the heroin was an ongoing thing for years and years and years. In 2013, he called me, and I had been estranged from him for about five years. And so when he called me, it was odd because I don't talk to him at this point. And when I do talk to him, it's like, fuck you. You know, it's like, really not. It's not healthy at all. So when he called me, he was just like. He was a wreck, and he was, like, vulnerable and emotional, and I was shocked. It's like, what the. What is this? And it was, I. This is basically my last day. Like, I'm done. I'm dying and I'm done, and I need help. And you're the only one that can help me. Because everyone had cut him out at this point. So he comes to his firstborn son to save the day. And so I. I heard him out and I felt. I felt sympathy for him. I mean, he was a great dad growing up, until he wasn't. Until the drugs turned him into a monster. And by this time, I was healthy in my career. I was healthy in my. I had a wife and we were already talking about raising a kid. I was healthy. I'm healthy and I'm in a good place. And I felt like I could do it. So I immediately kind of, like, figured out rehabs, like, whatever that means. I started calling around. I got him a spot at this detox facility in Southern California and then put him on a flight from Chicago to LA the next morning. And I picked him up at the airport. And he just was this skeleton of a person. It was really awful. I mean, like, he didn't have a belt on. His pants were just, like, falling down. He was constantly lifting his pants up. Just really sad, really sad state. And, you know, I drove him to the airport and it was pretty much a silent drive. And so I dropped him off. And that's what you do. You drop him off and you leave. And then he started getting clean, as you do, hopefully. And then I would visit him and then he would slowly start opening up all this stuff to me. And it wasn't a lot. It was just like, you don't really know who I am. And, you know, I used to do bad things. And, you know, it was just like a lot of little hints, you know, little breadcrumbs kind of thing.

Laura (18:51)

Wow.

Kyle Tequila (18:51)

I don't know if he's on drugs. Like, I don't know if it's like some heroin hangover or if, you know, he's just, like, hallucinating. I don't really take any of this stuff, you know, on face value. So when he does get sober, and I know he's sober and we're having conversations and he's like, kind of like, you know, the old Ken is. I can kind of see it a little bit. And then that's when he's really laid it out for me. And it was just like, what are you talking about? Like, what? So I gave him an iPad and I said, write this shit down. Like, just in your time, in your spare time. And he was staying with me for, like, a couple days, too. And you would go back and forth, and I'm just like, whatever thought you have, just write it all out. Because it was hard for him to get it out. Like, he would say it, then he'd stop and he'd be like, I don't wanna talk about that. You know, he, like, shut it down again. So I'm like, just write it down in your own time. And then, like, one day, it was probably a year or two later, it was like 40 pages, like, you know, kind of autobiography all over the place. Scatterbrain, you know? But I read it, and it was just like, it's the story. It's the story. It's Crook County. It's insane. So I spent a good amount of time kind of like, organizing the thoughts, asking him other questions, and telling him to send me little voice memos every now and then if he has a thought. And I just started compiling information and materials. And at the same time, I was really busy doing movies stuff. So I just. Like, there wasn't a podcast. There wasn't anything. It was just like working on my dad, having him purge all these things. And then in 2017, that's when I heard up and vanished, like I said. And I was like, this could be a podcast, you know? And that's when I pulled out the recorder, and he was ready, and I was ready. And he was sober at this time, and he was working in a rehab facility, you know, helping people stay clean. That was kind of like his. His penance for his life of crime and what he felt like he had to do. And we just started recording, and over a couple years, we got all this material, and then I would go and fly out, and I'd, you know, got my mom in Chicago, got my brother, got my dad's twin brother, Rich. I, you know, found his old paramedic firefighter partner, his high school girlfriend, you know, just like, all these things, started pulling clips, started learning about the Mafia. Like, just all this research really dive in. And then, you know, and then the rest is history. I put it all together, and now here we are. But, yeah, you know, so the question was, how do you transition from family archives to that? And it was creatively, I had to insert. I realized I had to insert myself into the story to tell the story, as opposed to just, like, having this be, like, archival footage that I could share. You know, here's an hour interview with your dad kind of thing, or your grandpa kind of thing, right? So that was the change. That was the flip that I had to do.

Laura (21:36)

What was that?

Kyle Tequila (21:37)

Like, therapeutic and very lonely. Cause I was just sitting in my room, like, just thinking for weeks and Weeks and weeks. And just like then I'd write a little something and then. Then I'd tie two pieces of footage together with this little thought that I had, right? And it was just like this slow, like, brick laying process that took a long time, you know, how do you connect all these dots, right? Because it's three. It's three, four decades of stuff, plus my life, you know, and how it affected us and how to affect everybody else. So it was a lot. But I learned a lot I could do. I can be a lot more efficient at that now. I think through this process, I know how to do it.

Laura (22:14)

Has the process of doing this show, you know, recording these interviews, reaching out to your family and, you know, extended community. Has it shifted how your family operates?

Kyle Tequila (22:28)

That's interesting. You know, they're a bunch of stubborn bastards, let me tell you. But I will say that this whole process has brought us a lot closer together.

Laura (22:41)

Yeah.

Kyle Tequila (22:41)

And I think, you know, one of the morals of this whole thing is secrets kill. And you can't have a functioning family unit when everyone's holding onto shit and burying realities, you know what I mean? Because they're not fun, they're ugly. And so for us, I forced everybody to dig this shit up and say it to me and say it to my face and put it out there. And I have these conversations and I think, just like, it was cathartic for me, it was really cathartic for everybody else too. So, yeah, in a way, now that it's all out there, and especially now that it's out in the world and people are hearing it and they're getting like, my mom's getting Facebooked by people like, holy. Like, what? You know, it's like there's nothing left to hide. And now. And they're almost like, it's. It's weird. It's like they feel lighter. Like I just said, I feel like I can float. Like, everyone feels a lot lighter now. It's like, yeah, like, and. And because they're not being persecuted like they thought they would be persecuted by sharing this stuff, people are actually, like, sympathizing and empathizing and being like, oh my God, you know, and like feeling the need to. To help or be friends again or, you know, reignite an old friendship or whatever. Like, oh my God, now I understand why you were the way you were or why you, you know, why things happened and why we fell. Our relationship fell apart. It's like all. Everything has been kind of glued back together again in a weird way. So, yeah, it's very healthy.

Laura (24:08)

That's so beautiful. That's really cool. Are you. Are you still the only one in touch with your dad? Or has anybody else made contact with him?

Kyle Tequila (24:18)

99.9% me. Every now and then, he'll text my mom, and she's. She just wants nothing to do with them. So she'll just be like, whatever can, you know, kind of thing. That's my mom voice. Whatever can. And then my brother wanted nothing to do with him for years. I mean, yeah, really, like, high school for him was a nightmare.

Laura (24:37)

Yeah.

Kyle Tequila (24:37)

And he hadn't talked to him for over 10 years, so I'll share a little secret with you. We had this sit down on Christmas two months ago, my mom, my brother, and myself. And I played them all, all the episodes. We sat down in this. In this room, and we played eight episodes straight. And we drank a shit ton of wine. We got really drunk, and we got really emotional, and we just hashed all this shit out. And it was, again, really healthy. But in the middle of it, it was the craziest thing. In the middle of it, my dad texts me and he says. And he says, I'm gonna kill myself today.

Laura (25:17)

Seriously.

Kyle Tequila (25:19)

Yes. I have the text, and it's a hot. It's Christmas. He's got no family. He's fucked. His head is fucked still, and, you know, poor. The guy's a mess. He really is. As much as I try to help him, but he's still a fucking mess. And I go, whoa. I pulled up my phone, like, you guys, Ken just texted me, read this. And I put it out. And they read it. And my brother goes, fuck that. Give me that fucking phone. I'm gonna FaceTime him right now. It was the first time he ever said anything like that in, like, over 10 years. And so he FaceTimed my dad, and I have it all recorded. And he just confronted him and just let him have it. Like 10, 12 years of all this backlog of hate and pain and things he wanted to say. And he just fucking crushed him. And it was. It was crazy. It was super healthy for him. And at the end of it, they were kind of, like, both kind of laughing a little bit. It was wild. It was wild. And so I'm gonna. I'm gonna release some bonus episodes that has a lot of this, like, kind of present day stuff going on, this present day drama.

Laura (26:17)

Wow.

Kyle Tequila (26:18)

Welcome to the Tequila family. Never a dull moment.

Laura (26:21)

That is kind of the opposite action I would expect someone to take if they heard that their dad was feeling Suicidal. He's like, I'm gonna let him have it because in case he goes, I have to get this off my chest kind of thing.

Kyle Tequila (26:34)

Yeah, no, it was kind of cool.

Laura (26:36)

Life, it sounds like, right?

Kyle Tequila (26:37)

It, like, it totally, like knocked him off that. Yeah, that train of thought.

Laura (26:41)

Yeah.

Kyle Tequila (26:41)

What am I thinking? He's like. Cause that's literally what he said. He's like, what the fuck are you thinking?

Laura (26:45)

Right?

Kyle Tequila (26:45)

Texting your son who's like, done nothing but help you, that you're going to fucking kill yourself. Like, you're putting that weight on your. On Kyle, like, what is wrong with you? And he just crushed him. It was. It was pretty incredible.

Laura (26:56)

I mean, the thing that comes through in the show from both you and your brother and your mom is the fact that there's still so much love there. And I think that's what that is. It's like if you are angry, you still care. If your brother didn't love your dad still, despite everything, he wouldn't have cared. He'd have seen that text and not, you know, bothered.

Kyle Tequila (27:22)

C'est la vie. But yeah, I know, you're 100% right.

Laura (27:25)

I mean, it's really so vulnerable to put this out into the world. But I think a lot of people live with these huge secrets and these weights that sit on their shoulders. Like you were saying, everyone feels lighter even though it's been really painful and really messy. And yalls way of processing it, you know, is not necessarily what, like a textbook therapist would be like. This is the proper way to process these sorts of things, you know. But it works for you guys and it's created a lot of healing. And I think it's really cool to share that so publicly because it has the potential to really connect with a lot of other people that are in similarly messy situations that might feel like their past forgiveness. Like your dad, I imagine, does, you know. And anyway, I just think it's very courageous to share stuff that's this intense and personal. Really.

Kyle Tequila (28:17)

It's so freeing.

Laura (28:19)

Yeah.

Kyle Tequila (28:19)

Like, it really is. Like, I don't care what people think of me at all. Like, dude, this is exactly who I am, you know, and this is my fucked up family. Enjoy.

Laura (28:28)

And it's amazing that it sounds like you've been met with a lot of compassion rather than vitriol, which is wonderful, honestly.

Kyle Tequila (28:35)

If you're mad at me for this, fuck you. You're an asshole.

Laura (28:40)

So who helped you with the show? Did you? You. You basically already covered that. You just did this on your own mostly. But you did work with Tenderfoot. Can you talk a little bit about that process of building a team and who you worked with and how you worked with other people on this?

Kyle Tequila (28:56)

Yeah, it was a one man band. I mean, all production was me. All the editing, the music, sound effects, the sound design, whatever, all that, like me, me, me. You know, it's like a. It's like a college film, you know, shot by me, edited by me, all that. But Tenderfoot is. They're so efficient and professional and they know this space so well. Donald is the one I work with day to day on this and Mavs for the score. But Donald's like, it's gotta be eight episodes and two bonus episodes. Like, he gives me the format right. You know, there's gonna be two mid rolls, so plan for that. Okay. So I know I could. I basically 30 minute show, which was always my plan. I didn't want some like droning hour long. It's just too much, you know, some things hours, perfect. But like, I just felt like it would just be too much at an hour on the show. So I was like always like 30 minutes. I was like, okay, I could do literally three 10 minute chunks and just break it up very episodically like a TV show. And so the form is Tenderfoot. That's their guidance. And then I filled it all with temp music from Mavs. Actually, he sent me just his library of stuff, like to cut to. And then he crafted an original score once everything was locked cool. Which is amazing because he's such a beast. He's so talented. He really just elevates everything he touches. So thank you, Mavs. Bud, you're great. And then as far as trailers and stuff, you know, again, that's them. Like, this wasn't a video thing. He's like, you need. You need a two minute, you need a 60, you need 30, you need video stuff, you need personal stuff for you, you got to fucking learn how to do TikTok. You got to dance. So, yeah, all that stuff is Tenderfoot. And you know, a lot of conversations between Donald and I and like, you know, like, what. What do you think we should do with this? Like, should I hold this story back? Is like stuff like that. You know, he was kind of like an advisor in that front, but. But yeah, I mean, for the most part it's me sitting in a room by myself, just staring at a computer screen, pressing buttons.

Laura (30:55)

Wow. That. That is very intense.

Kyle Tequila (30:57)

Very lonely. Extremely lonely.

Laura (31:01)

Has your dad listened to the show?

Kyle Tequila (31:03)

He listened to the pilot.

Laura (31:05)

Okay.

Kyle Tequila (31:06)

And we Played it for him. And we sat down with him, and it was a lot for him. It's one thing for him to finally unveil all of these things to me, but another to listen to it back in this packaged movie thing, you know, like, it kind of messed with him a bit. And he didn't. He was kind of speechless, for all. He didn't know what to say. And then it scared him. He's like, oh, my God. Like, it's. It's like a thing. Like, it's not just my. It's like a thing now and then. So we had to talk about that. And that. That leads into the. Well, are you comfortable even doing this? And so eventually it was like once. Once that shock of like, oh, my God, this is a thing now wore off. And he. And he understands, and he knows I'm a film producer. He knows what I do. He knows that I. He trusted me to tell it the right way. And so once that all kind of settled itself out, he was totally at peace with it and supportive of it and always asking me if I needed any more stories or, you know, whatever, any more clarification on anything. You know, as I'm in production, as I'm editing all this stuff. And, you know, even nowadays, like, every now and then he'll hit me up with a voice memo. It's just some whacked out, crazy thing. And he's like, I don't know if you need that or not, but there it is. So I've got just a folder just full of insanity voice memos from him. But. But yeah, so, I mean, he's. And I told him, like, hey, the show's coming out February 11th. Dad, that's great, son. You know, congrats. You know, you're so proud of you, blah, blah, blah, you know, so there are. There are moments where we have, like, normal human conversations, and then they, like, spiral into like. Like, I'm gonna fucking kill myself, you know, kind of stuff. It's very odd. It's very. A lot of. A lot of, like, almost like bipolar conversations. But, yeah, so, I mean, he's 100% supportive of it. To answer your question.

Laura (33:00)

I think it's really interesting. I don't remember what episode it is that you mentioned this, but he talks about how he never shared his story in aa, you know, like, he wasn't comfortable in that setting, sharing these things, and now that same person is confronting the fact that millions of people are hearing his story.

Kyle Tequila (33:22)

It's one thing to tell it to a group and the other just to, like, not even, like, just pretend it's not even happening, and then it's on the radio, you know?

Laura (33:29)

Yeah.

Kyle Tequila (33:30)

And you're not a part of the experience.

Laura (33:32)

Yeah, I suppose that's what it is. It's just interesting. It sort of fits with the picture you paint of your dad, of this, like, life of extremes, you know?

Kyle Tequila (33:39)

Very much so.

Larison Campbell (33:40)

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

Laura (33:48)

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

Larison Campbell (33:50)

Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

Nancy Grace (34:04)

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

Larison Campbell (34:08)

Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

Kyle Tequila (34:12)

It was my family's mystery.

Larison Campbell (34:15)

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

Kyle Tequila (34:19)

Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information.

Larison Campbell (34:22)

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

Kyle Tequila (34:28)

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

Larison Campbell (34:34)

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazu Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

Israel Gutierrez (34:43)

Ever wondered what you would do if you found yourself lost in the wild? In the desert, the jungle, or the mountains? Would you make the right choices to stay alive? Introducing real survival stories, the new podcast from Noiser. These are the astonishing tales of ordinary people thrown into extraordinary situations. People suddenly forced to fight for their lives.

Jeremy Scott (35:07)

How the heck did I get here? And how the heck am I going to get out of here? Am I going to be a pile of bones in the Australian outback? Or am I going to make it out?

Kyle Tequila (35:16)

I heard the nylon dragging against the ice, so I was going faster and.

Payne (35:20)

Faster, and all of a sudden, boom.

Nancy Grace (35:25)

This is the worst place you can be in a lightning storm. I didn't know if I'd make it through the night.

Kyle Tequila (35:31)

If.

Nancy Grace (35:31)

If I live until morning, I will live my greatest dreams.

Israel Gutierrez (35:36)

Listen to real survival stories. Search real survival stories in your podcast app and hit follow for weekly episodes.

Nancy Grace (35:43)

I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Breaking news tonight, the return of Tot mom. It feels like a dirt sandwich in my mouth. TikTok stardom ahead as Casey Anthony haters beg. Please go away, guys. Please don't miss this. Please join us. Listen to crime stories with Nancy grace on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcast.

Laura (36:14)

So you mention in episode three that you talk to a criminal defense attorney and he encourages you not to release the story. Is. Is your dad concerned about that? Are you concerned about it at all? Your dad's rebuttal was that he thinks that everybody that he talks about is dead, but he's not. And he, you know, goes on mic and admits to committing a number of murders, basically. So can you just talk a little bit more about how he's reconciled that. How you've reconciled that? If there's any kind of concern or fear showing up now that you've released this.

Kyle Tequila (36:49)

No, if anything, there's less fear.

Laura (36:51)

Interesting.

Kyle Tequila (36:52)

Okay. Oddly enough, you know, because you. Your brain goes when. When it's all conceptual, and, you know, you think of all the worst things that can happen. And of course, it's like, yes, you think that everyone's dead because you were the kid, but, like, it's. It's different when it's conceptual than versus reality. And, you know, it's not just the mafia that that could be, you know, coming for him, but it's also law enforcement or FBI. You know, there's no statute of limitations on murder. So, yes, all these things are going through my head, which is why I talked to this attorney, and of course, I'm asking my dad all this stuff. And I think really what it boils down to is it's two things. One, we decided not to name names in the show. We decided not to dig up bodies in the show. We. We do a lot of. We take a lot of creative license in telling the story without revealing incriminating details. And I think I do a pretty good job of balancing that. And two, he is just at a very interesting point in his life where he's right at the end of it. He's not healthy, and he has nothing left to lose. And just getting this burden off of his chest is the most important thing and putting it out there in the world. Also, it's monetarily like he made a little cash on this deal. Let's just be honest. He doesn't have any money. He's broke. He's living on Social Security. Basically, he's borderline in poverty. He was living under a bridge for six months two years ago. He was literally homeless. I mean, he's a wreck. And so I'm able to pay for rent for him now. And I bought him a car. And he's stable. His situation is stable. And so there's just, like, all those things. And it's like, if karma's Gonna come get me, then let karma come get me. That's where he stands. I don't feel like I'm in any danger whatsoever, because, again, I'm not dropping names and I'm not digging up bodies. My role in this is to learn about my father. You know, I'm not here to point fingers or blame anybody, so I don't feel anything. And now that it's out, I've gotten a few DMs on Instagram. Like when the trailer came out from Chicago. Names that I know.

Laura (39:08)

Oh, wow.

Kyle Tequila (39:09)

And that was a heartbeat moment when I. When I saw that name pop up in my messages. And it's kind of funny. It was a very simple message. It was like, this looks cool. And I'm like, is that the most ominous chill thread I've ever heard in my life or what? Like. Or does he actually like it? So I don't know. So I wrote back, and I'm like. And I say last name as in last name. And he goes, yeah, that's my grandfather. And I'm like, oh, God, here we go.

Laura (39:35)

Wow.

Kyle Tequila (39:36)

And then I write. I'm like, don't worry. It's not some, like, snitch fest. It's really just like a father son story, blah, blah, blah, you know, I hope you like it. Nothing for, like, a day. And I'm like, oh, God, it's already happening. I'm done. My worst fears are coming true. And then. And then the next day, he hits me up and he's like, actually, this is. I have a book that I want to write, and I have a screenplay. And, like, this is so cool. Like, you're doing it how I would do it. And it was like, oh, everyone just wants to fucking tell their story. Like, no one cares anymore. As long as you're not saying that guy did it. You know, you're like, people just want to tell their story. So, again, I just feel. I feel better about everything. So, yeah, it's been a really weird. Been a really weird journey so far, to say the least.

Laura (40:20)

Yeah. Well, and to embark on that journey, too, during the pandemic is particularly intense because everything is closed down, and you're closed down, and you're digging into these really dark things, you know, it's just.

Kyle Tequila (40:33)

It's very cool drinking a lot of wine, day drinking, as we all do, as everybody.

Laura (40:38)

That was the thing to do in 2020 and 2021. But it is so cool to hear about this trajectory of. It really is a story of, like, from the darkness to the light. You know, it sounds so cheesy to say that, but I just keep hearing you over and over again talk about how beautiful this has been to, like, open that up. And I love it, and I hope that it encourages other people to do that.

Kyle Tequila (40:58)

Yeah, me too.

Laura (41:00)

This is a great segue into my next question, which is, what do you hope people gain from listening to this show and to your family's story?

Kyle Tequila (41:07)

Yeah, I mean, it's really simple. Like I said earlier, secrets kill people. And so there's also the themes of addiction and getting help and Alcoholics Anonymous, Narco Anonymous, Cocaine Anonymous, there's all the Anonymouses. And there's so much value in seeking help, and it's really hard to admit that you need help. It's so. It's like almost one of the hardest things. And especially, like, in Italian families, you just don't. You just eat it. Sorry. You don't. You don't tell anybody about it. You choke on it. So. Yeah, just really important, you know? And my dad never would have gotten help like I had. He had to call me on his. He was going to kill himself. He had a gun in his hand. And so he had to get to that point to seek help. But he didn't seek help. He sought my help, not a therapist. And so I had to basically put him into a situation where there was therapy, and even then, he didn't want to tell anybody anything. But just being in an environment where people are seeking help and dealing with their issues kind of publicly, it's really. It's. You know, it can be the best thing you ever do it. You know, I've never met someone that's gone to AA and said it was terrible, a terrible idea, you know? Yeah, a lot of people relapse, but that's not AA's fault. That's. That's you. Like, that's you not following the program, and that's you giving back into the. To the demons or the depression or whatever it is. And, you know, it's. It's hard. It's a battle. It's a constant battle. It's a lifelong battle, and it takes a lot of strength, but you have to take that first step. And so I hope there's a little bit of that in there, a little bit of hope for people, maybe a little inspiration. Everyone knows somebody that's addicted to something.

Laura (42:46)

Your dad's story of addiction was not something that I expected to show up in the show. You know, just because you look at. We listen to the trailer, and you're like, okay, this is going to be, you know, a mafia story. And then you put it right in episode two. It's like you get the first impression of your dad and then you immediately bring in his heroin addiction, which happened a little later than the full story. Like, you kind of jump in time a little bit. Why was it important for you to have that not chronologically ordered? Like, bring that in early.

Kyle Tequila (43:22)

Yeah, you know this. Because this never was a Mafia show.

Laura (43:25)

Yeah, fair.

Kyle Tequila (43:26)

It's not a third person, whatever rehashing of things that happened, you know, news clips and whatever. It's like, it's my story. It's my relationship with my dad, who fucked up big time. And I thought he was just a piece of shit heroin addict. But no, he actually had this insane history that I could never have even imagined that played a huge role in why he's a fucking heroin addict.

Laura (43:51)

Right.

Kyle Tequila (43:51)

And so it's like two sides of the same coin. You have to tell both sides of the story and you have to lay them out. And I did it. I kind of did it naked. Like Mafia. Like, it's just episode one is Mafia. Episode two is fucked up family and heroin. And then you smash them together and you start mixing it up. And that's what happens for the rest of the episodes. I'm just like, mixing up this bowl of, you know, pain. Pain and anguish. But the cookies are delicious.

Laura (44:20)

Well, it's. I mean, it's effective. Like, as a listener with absolutely no context going in, it gave me a very different perspective on your dad from the get go, you know, and instead of, you know, it ending up in this, you can just dismiss him as a terrible person. It's like you have this layer of, okay, I understand how he ended up, where he ended up, and all the layers of trauma and all of the things.

Kyle Tequila (44:42)

That's a really interesting point that I think has been really surprising is the amount of people who have said, wow, he was actually a really good guy and he really loved you guys. It's like they say that, like, that's like, yes, you kill people, he's in the mafia. But like, their takeaway is that he, at the end of the day, like, he was actually a good person. He was put in a really bad situation and then just. It got completely out of control. And I think. I think a lot of that's true. I mean, obviously he made those decisions, you know, and he did those things, and you can't ignore that. That's awful. But. But people are super complex. And no, there's no such Thing as a real monster. I mean, maybe there is like super sociopathic people, but. But he's not a sociopath, I don't think. I think he is actually just a really complex person who found a way to deal with his awful child. Like, you know, how he was recruited as a 17 year old kid living on the streets and how he basically just like ended up in that life and how he was able to kind of get out of that life and start a family and raise a family who loved him and be a great dad. You know, he's just like, he's kind of this guy who just like fell into a pit and dug himself out of it. But the pit's still there and all you gotta do is look and oh, there's the pit. You know, you just had to find the pit. And so yeah, it's like the complexity of him as a person I think is what makes this show really, really special and different. Because it's not just some like good guy, bad guy mafia thing, you know, we're all, we're all a little fucked up and we're all, we can all be really good too at the same time, you know.

Laura (46:18)

Yeah, I think the show does a really good job of that. And I think that theme, I mean that theme is something that a lot of Tenderfoot shows explore too, is the humanity, you know, part of the picture. And no one's story is straightforward. Like you said, there are some people whose brains are very different and they get pushed into these very like dark places. But a lot of people who end up committing crimes are kind of, I think in situations more like your dad, where it's less their choice than externally people perceive it is.

Kyle Tequila (46:52)

Yeah. A lot of external pressures and forcing of the hand and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, I mean, of course at the end of the day they could just say no and walk away or try to. But it's true. It's hard. It's really hard sometimes. Yeah.

Laura (47:05)

So at the end of the season you have this kind of call to action for listeners to reach out to you with questions and comments and you've touched a little bit on some of the things you've heard from people. But is there anything that you've heard from folks so far that's really impacted you that you want to share with everybody?

Kyle Tequila (47:21)

You know, I got a comment yesterday and it was someone, basically what you just said, like, I wasn't expecting the addiction stuff. And I had battled addiction. And that really struck a note with me how he said that AA saved His life because AA saved my life. So there's that connection I think is gonna land with a lot of people. Someone this morning reached out to me that I went to high school with that obviously had no idea about any of this stuff, said, I don't know if you know this, but my dad died of alcoholism at. When I was 15, and he battled it for a really long time. And it was a private thing that we kept within the family. And hearing your dad story now and understanding is like. It makes me want to tell my story, you know, so it's a lot of. I think it really. It's like triggering people in a. In a positive way to. To like, to, I guess, embrace these really hard things that have happened to them in their past instead of hide it. I think that's beautiful.

Laura (48:20)

So what's next for Kirk County?

Kyle Tequila (48:24)

Well, there's going to be a bunch of other seasons of it. I'm trying. I have ideas for it. I would love to. There's so much going on with my dad currently. Things that I have not even talked to you about yet that are wild. That I might be able to squeeze into a season two, like a continuation story. If I can, great. If I can't, then I'm gonna do other stories, like, under the banner of Crook county, you know. Cause in the same kind of way I did this one, it's gonna be thoughtful and a lot of humanity mixed with the bad. But then immediately, we are pitching this as a TV series, you know, like a prestige show. You know, like a Sopranos meets Dexter meets Fargo meets Chicago Fire. We didn't even talk about that. The whole paramedic firefighter thing, you know, that's such a unique angle to his story. You know, to be a first responder who's a mafia asset, you know, he's a hero by day and a hitman by night. Like, that's. That's a show. Let's go, hbo. What are we talking about?

Laura (49:30)

That's true.

Kyle Tequila (49:32)

Let's see. We're working on that.

Laura (49:34)

We didn't talk about that. But that whole trajectory, I think that's part of why, you know, folks are reaching out and saying, your dad was a good. A good guy, clearly loved you, because he so obviously was trying to do better. You know, the fact that he wanted to be a firefighter, it's like such a complete balancing effect for what he's doing. You know, it's like hitman and then you save lives. Like, that is the goal. And so it's. It's so clear that he, yeah, wanted to do better. And I mean, it's a great show. So where can people get in touch with you to stay updated about all this that's coming next? Maybe send you a story potentially, if they have something that could fit. I don't know if that's something that you're looking for, but what do you suggest people do if they want to stay in touch with you in the show?

Kyle Tequila (50:19)

Sure, you just send me a postcard. Go to the mail. Yeah, you know, I've got all the social stuff. So you. I control Crook county podcast Instagram account and the website has like a, you know, email feature and a contact and there's also a voicemail thing that actually I want to do. I want, I want people to leave me voicemails and I want to play them on a bonus episode. So go to crookcountypodcast.com and leave me a voicemail. Ask me a question, tell me how you feel about the show. Whatever. You can call me a douchebag. That's fun. I, I, I'll talk to everybody. So pretty, pretty available.

Laura (50:51)

Awesome. Thank you so much, Kyle. This was really fun. I really appreciate your time and I'm excited to share this with everyone on Tenderfoot.

Kyle Tequila (50:58)

Plus, something unexpected happened after Jeremy Scott confessed to killing Michelle Schofield in in Bone Valley season one. Every time I hear about my dad is, oh, he's a killer. He's just straight evil.

Jeremy Scott (51:25)

I was becoming the bridge between Jeremy Scott and the son he'd never known.

Kyle Tequila (51:30)

At the end of the day, I'm literally a son of a killer. Listen to new episodes of bone Valley Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple.

Jeremy Scott (51:37)

Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Larison Campbell (51:43)

In Mississippi, Yazoo clay keeps secrets.

Nancy Grace (51:47)

7,000 bodies out there or more.

Larison Campbell (51:51)

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

Kyle Tequila (51:53)

It was my family's mystery.

Larison Campbell (51:55)

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Israel Gutierrez (52:12)

Ever wondered what you would do if you found yourself lost in the wild? In the desert, the jungle or the mountains? Would you make the right choices to stay alive? Introducing real survival stories. The new podcast from Noiser. These are the astonishing tales of ordinary people thrown into extraordinary situations. People suddenly forced to fight for their lives.

Jeremy Scott (52:37)

How the heck did I get here? And how the heck am I going to get out of here? Am I going to be a pile of bones in the Australian outback? Or am I going to make it out?

Kyle Tequila (52:45)

I heard the nylon dragging against the ice so I was going faster and.

Payne (52:49)

Faster and all of a sudden boom.

Nancy Grace (52:54)

This is the worst place you can be in a lightning storm. I didn't know if I'd make it through the night. If I live until morning, I will live my greatest dreams.

Israel Gutierrez (53:05)

Listen to real Survival Stories Stories Search real survival stories in your podcast app and hit follow for weekly episodes.

Kyle Tequila (53:12)

I'm Israel Gutierrez and I'm hosting a new podcast, Dub Dynasty, the story of how the Golden State warriors have dominated the NBA for over a decade. The Golden State warriors once again are NBA champions today. The warriors dynasty remains alive in large part because of a scrawny 6 foot 2 hooper who everyone seems to like for what Steph has done for the game. He's certainly on that Mount Rushmore. Come revisit this magical warriors ride. Listen to Dub Dynasty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.