Joe (2:47)

Credit credit to the social team on that one. But let's, let's jump into the news. So the biggest thing that I saw this week we last and this happened literally right after we recorded Brian Morgan Stanley loves bitcoin. And you know, obviously our listenership is very up to date not only with the crypto markets, but just the markets in general. They're smart, they're investors. So they know who Morgan Stanley is. One of the big five in the banking. More, more definitely geared toward investing the markets. And Morgan Stanley is announcing that they're having or launching, filing for a spot, folks. A spot Bitcoin etf. And then right when you're like wow, Morgan Stanley, that's, that's pretty big. That's, that's quite, that's quite a vote of confidence, if you will, for bitcoin. I went and got a snack. You know me like a little snack throughout the day. I come back refreshed my feed. Morgan Stanley files for a spot, Brian. A spot Ethereum etf. My God. Listen, I know you're thinking like okay, there's a lot of Bitcoin ETFs. There's more Bitcoin ETFs than ETH ETFs. There's a fair amount of ETH ETFs. TiVo. This isn't a big ide idea. This isn't that big of a deal. I totally disagree. I totally disagree for multiple reasons. The first reason is, and this one from Matt Hogan, friend of the program, is that Morgan Stanley manages 20 ETFs, but mostly they're under a different name of this Calvert Paramedic, Eaton Vance Brands. This will be the third and fourth ETF to bear the Morgan Stanley name. To bear the Ms. Name. I that's pretty remarkable according to Matt Hogan. I think that that's a fun stat and I totally agree. I think this is a huge vote of confidence. And just that point there of actually putting the Morgan Stanley name next to it when that's not what they're known for is ETFs, I think is really telling at kind of the longevity and the bullishness. And then we have a part two of this whole conversation with Morgan Stanley coming up to kind of really dig in our heels even more. But Brian, I gotta get your take, man. Morgan Stanley launching a Bitcoin and Eth etf, or at least filing for one and then hoping to launch it in 26. But the Runway there for this to get approved, clearly. So what, what are your thoughts on this?

Brian (4:59)

Yeah, this is amazing. And I, I think you mentioned the bitcoin, you mentioned the Ethereum and they also filed for a Solana ETF as well. So Morgan Stanley is buying up our bags right now. So they're ready to be here. This is amazing news for not just those assets but the entire crypto market. Like you said, everybody and their mother, if you are somewhat know about banks or the financial institutions, you know who Morgan Stanley is. And they're, they're in it. They're in it. They're doing a Bitcoin etf, a Solana etf and I believe they're the first major bank to actually file for a Solana etf. So that's amazing stuff. And then after that they came out and they're like, hey, we're, we're getting into Ethereum as well. So this is just another feather in the cap to show that institutions are here, they're staying. And I honestly think they're trying, they were trying to shake us out of our bags early on because the big players, the JP Morgan's, the Jamie Dimons, the Morgan Stanley's, the blackrock, they're all in the crypto game and we should all be paying attention.

Joe (6:01)

Yeah, it's something that we've covered and then just doesn't get lost in the news flow. We did see that bitwise is filing for the Spotlink etf, which will be C link. So just again, more, more momentum for altcoins in general. But the focus, the focus is definitely on Morgan Stanley here. I think that, you know, Morgan Stanley, a firm that's managing over $1.6 trillion in assets, again is just a brand name that carries a lot of weight and it kind of can, can, does it go right into. I'm trying to figure out how we want to talk about it because I think the problem with Morgan Stanley is they've kind of been in the news specifically. Not with bitcoin specifically, but with kind of the how they were dealing with the MSCI news around, maybe kicking out MicroStrategy from their indexes. So it just kind of trends us. So like, okay, there's a lot of good news going on. Let's tee it up with this. Overall, this is all good news, guys. Bitcoin is seeing the good News. The, the ETFs are good, but what happened with this dip? It kind of all started back in October, right, with the biggest liquidation in crypto history. And I know I fumbled teeing this up, but like I think this is something that me and you have to have to talk about, Brian, because we're skipping around on the sheet. But if you're at home and you have a kitchen, you want to get out your tinfoil, you can get out some tinfoil. You get it, you know, maybe about like 3, 3 yards, 2 to 3 yards of tinfoil, you start wrapping around your head, you make a little cone there. Because we're going to dive into this. This is something that Brian and I talked about with you guys back about six, I guess it was what, six weeks ago. So there was a, there was a pressure window. Obviously October happened, the biggest liquidation in crypto history. But then with with the MSCI coming out, so October 10th, Morgan Stanley Division, M sorry, MCSI is a Morgan Stanley division, announced to propose the moot to remove digital asset treasury companies from its global indexes. So this is coming from people that work under an arm of Morgan Stanley and they're saying, hey, like we might remove DATs from our indexes. And DATS would include bit. Mine obviously would include micro strategy. Then all of a sudden that snowballed into all this micro strategy thread. So you have the biggest liquidation in crypto history. Now all these large indexes are saying, well we might kick out micro strategy, which takes away its passive income flow, which again messes up the alchemy of what Michael Saylor is doing all with all those offerings over at Strategy. And then it kind of curtailed this non stop FUD with not only the crypto space, but with MicroStrategy. MicroStrategy tanked. Let's pull that up here. The micro. I don't have my chart master, but let's pull up the MicroStrategy stock. I'm going to share this tab instead. Can you see that, Brian?

Brian (8:50)

Yeah, Got you.

Joe (8:53)

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Brian (14:32)

They're not getting past us. TiVo, we were all over them a few weeks ago. We, our spidey sense was an all time high. A lot of, a lot of these rumors. There was just a lot of FUD coming out. That's what it is. It's fear, uncertainty and doubt and then it piles on and piles on and piles on. We were, we were talking about this live on the rundown, just like you said, that it just wasn't adding up for a lot of these things actually happened. But the rumor of the possibility of MSCI removing strategy and the crash and the liquidations, it was just kind of like piling on at the perfect time really. And it felt like there was some manipulation going in. I can't say that was 100%, but if I had tinfoil next to me right now, I'd have the biggest tinfoil hat you've ever seen on. Because I think there's a little bit of manipulation. Manipulation happening. I think we're spot on.

Joe (15:24)

Yeah. Shout out to Weird Al Yankovic. That's a, that's quite an old school poll for those who, who don't know who's wearing the tinfoil hat there. But I, I couldn't agree more. I, I think it's something that you don't want to necessarily believe in. You want to believe in free markets, and you want to believe in just kind of doing the research and trying to get the right bet. But this stuff, I mean, it's a dirty game out there, man. It's a dirty game. And. And it just. It just feels. The timing of it is. It's like. The timing of it when it hit, it's like, oh, man, now you're really piling on like this. And we never got the answers. I was talking to Bryce about this on the end of year episode. I don't. Let me see if you have any thoughts on it. When that whole liquidation again, the biggest liquidation in crypto history, happened back in October, everybody was like, oh, the bodies are going to float to the surface. The bodies are going to float to the surface. We're all waiting for the bodies. Then we played the clip. It was. It was Tom Lee. It was, oh, I know who the bodies are, but I don't tell. I'm not in that business of telling. And they never really floated. And I was just like, hey, Bryce, like, any. Any thoughts? And. And it's just one of those things where nothing really came to be, which I thought was really interesting, especially in a time with so much negative press. So it's like if. If nobody took the fall, you could. Okay, you need. You have to go to the store. You'd have to go to the supermarket. You have to buy a second roll of aluminum foil because now we're running out. So you'd have to make a bigger hat for this one. But it's almost like, was the biggest liquidation in crypto history. Ganged up on to, like, hey, let's all liquidate. We'll all take care of each other. Because nobody. Nobody died. There's no funds. Or, you know, there could be multiple funds that I guess nobody knows about, but nothing really blew up, which kind of makes me question what triggered all that and what. How did that happen? And then all of a sudden, this news came out and it was like, wow, now you're really piling on. And then, oh, it's gone now. We're going to leave that in. No, we're not. We're going to take away that Microstrategy is fine. Oh, by the way, like, the company that works for us, Morgan Stanley, is now launching a bitcoin etf. You know, pilot, I sound crazy.

Brian (17:23)

I'm sorry, I'm sorry. Where there's smoke, there's fire, man. And this. This definitely gave some major institutions an Opportunity to cheaply accumulate some of the best cryptos out there. So that's, that's why we talk about it all the time. We have to zoom out. We kind of have to really look at the big picture of a pro administration, all this institutional adoption and not get caught up on the day to day FUD that's being just shoved down our throat every single day. We show up in a bear market, we share, we show up in a bull market. But overall I do believe that these are some really, if you just zoom out and look at the key indicators here of some of these major institutions that are acquiring crypto, they don't want to go under, they're in this for the long run. And it, it really benefits them to scare retail, scare the public and accumulate some of these at a lower price because they're not buying one bitcoin, they're buying millions and billions of dollars worth of bitcoin. So even a small percentage down is billions of dollars. It's, it's a big deal for a lot of these banks. So it, it, it really, even though this feels, this, this is, this feels very manipulated in my eyes, we have no proof of this. So nobody come knocking at my door because I'm not home. But if it feels, it feels like there's a little bit of manipulation going on, but then on the other end makes me feel a little bit of bullish. Makes me feel bullish. You know, it's.

Joe (18:51)

You not good.

Brian (18:54)

Go at it, baby. No, no.

Joe (18:58)

It basically flips it on its side. It's like okay, well if they're playing a game to keep this thing down, then now that the game's turned, it's like, well let's turn the faucets back on. You had your three months of pressure, you had crypto native people have been around forever that are trying to figure out how to get their altcoin bags pumping and back to all time highs or just have been devastated now for a long period of time and they've been waiting and so you just pounded people to the pavement. Now you're going to turn around and launch ETFs and pull the guidance of taking away strategy. So it does kind of snow, it snowballs into like actually making a bullish case for the markets now. And, and you can kind of see that in the data and that's was the title of this episode is like hey, there's, there's a lot of data around that the long term holders are back. So I'm going to share this chart here. And you can kind of see that, you know, March, May, even the beginning of June, there was a lot of long term holder accumulation as bitcoin still like was in the 120s into the summer and, and just holding strong. And even though at one point we had fear, I know we had fear at the, later in the summer bitcoin fear greed index was in fear and we were still above 100k. But the long term, you know, sellers kind of took over the market there in the summer. And then clearly, obviously we just talked about, in that three month window into the end of the year, it was, it was just water said watershed selling. But now here, if you zoom in there on the bottom right, long term holders are starting to nibble. They're starting to nibble. That builds the thesis that you said that we might be feeling a little bit under the surface here, that this, that this is turning and it kind of, it kind of goes back to that. You know, you don't want to be on the same side of the boat like at the, at the end of the year. It was a tough end of the year. Every couple people, you know, their people are throwing in the towel and like, I'm just gonna sell this. I don't, I don't want to do this anymore. It's like that's kind of the time where you want to look around. And that's why we do the show multiple times a week. I think most of the time it's fun. There's a lot of fundamental news, There's a lot of macro news that we cover and we love our listeners, but it helps keep us honest too, because when we get too excited, you kind of be like, all right, well, let's see, let's look. Where's the boogeyman hiding today? Is it under the bed? Is it in the closet? And then the same thing goes, holds true when it's. When it's hard to make an episode twice a week, when it's hard to sit down and try to find the bullish narrative that kind of makes me question the other way as well, is like, okay, well what could make this turn? What, what is nobody looking at? What is nobody feeling right now?

Brian (21:21)

Yeah, I am under the radar, extremely bullish right now. Probably more bullish than I've been for quite some time. And a lot of this has to do with the most recent news and how it feels like there's blatant manipulation. This is not a price prediction, not technical analysis. This is just kind of like my gut feeling, which has Led me right a lot of the time, especially in the crypto market. But I really think we're going to make a push for 100 grand here sooner rather than later. Not saying like this week or anything, but I think there was some scare factors. Some pushing out some short term holders out there at the end of the year, obviously some manipulation and fud that felt like now we're seeing that little blue blip of some long term holders coming back in. I have my own indicators personally that I've always relied on some family and friends. If they stop texting or if they're texting, they're all lining up that I think we're going to start to push into the next phase of this bull market. When I say next phase of the bull market, I'm really looking at that $100,000 bitcoin mark. I think getting to that $95,000 sell wall is going to be key. Hopefully we bust through that soon and then we're going to be off to the next hundred thousand and then we're going to all be euphoric again and there's going to be bullish headlines or these bullish headlines are at least going to be more impactful on the price going up. And there's a, there's a lot of catalysts here that we can talk about and we talk about all the time. With the pro administration 401k allocation aching just, just so many. I, I think BlackRock I read added over the last three days like $900 million of Bitcoin and like $200 million in Ethereum over the, just the past couple days. They're not buying to flip that in a week or into a loss. So I'm getting booed up personally. And these are some great takes that you put on the sheet. I absolutely love where we're positioned right now.

Joe (23:12)

Yeah. And, and one more point of Morgan Stanley just literally hot off the wire while we're recording the show here. It's like, oh well, the MSCI news isn't, isn't enough. We're like, okay, well we're not going to take strategy out of the index. We're going to have a bitcoin etf. That's not enough. Morgan Stanley's now betting big on digital assets. Before we were going to take them away, now we want to bet big. It's like.

Brian (23:38)

The Wall street giant is three weeks ago.

Joe (23:42)

Yeah, like what? Did we not get invited to some Morgan Stanley like New Year's Eve party where they were just like, hey listen, they Had a couple, they got out the Johnnie Walker Blue, maybe the Johnny Walker Black, who knows? And they're just like, listen, we love crypto. Now we're gonna. We want them all on the index. And we're gonna do spot Bitcoin, spot Ethereum, Solana. Sounds fun. And then let's. Hey, let's tokenize that. Let's get our own wallet. Why don't we just get our own wallet? Like, these type of plans, people. Sorry if that was a bad joke there. These type of plans don't come at a New Year's Eve party at Morgan Stanley. These things have been in the works for months, if not year plus. Right.

Brian (24:22)

Especially when you talk about the holidays, too. They weren't working over Christmas. Oh, you don't think. You don't think.

Joe (24:29)

You don't think my New Year's Eve party, that's not how this all happened.

Brian (24:33)

I don't. I think they at least had a couple weeks of a Runway and it wasn't Christmas time. I don't know. It's. It's definitely adding up to some manipulation for sure. Hey, good to have him on board. Anybody from Morgan Stanley? Stanley listening right now. It's great to have you here. It's.

Joe (24:53)

Maybe give us a love Morgan Stanley. Like, would love to have some people on the show from Morgan Stanley. I think I, I think that's what we're. We want more than anything is like, just kind of like we have with Bitwise, and like, we had Robin Hood on the show. It's like we're, we're early adopters to the crypto space. But then anybody else who's trying to come and build in the community, like, I think that's, that's our whole goal is. It's, it's building this community and growing it and educating people on it. And so, you know, obviously, we believe this is the future. That's why we've been here, you know, doing this show for years now. And it's ex. It's exciting times. But, yeah, it's. It's kind of, you know, like, hey, you know, let it come. Join the. Join the party in a fun way. Don't, don't, don't be so negative. And then flip and flop. It's, It's. You know, we could all pull the old clips of Larry Fink saying, you know, bitcoins for criminals and terrorists and this and that. And then now there's the bitcoin etf. So we've seen this playbook before. It's nothing new. It's nothing new, it's just, it's fresh. And obviously the price action was so volatile to the end of the year, it just had people asking questions and now it seems like we're getting possibly some answers at least on the positive end for, you know, again, that long term view of blackrock, Morgan Stanley, like these, these people, these companies aren't, aren't doing this stuff to, to then change their tune in six months. This is here to stay, but to kind of continue on to the data that you need to know. The Ethereum validator queue. I thought this was really interesting guys. There's entry and exit for staking, right? If you want to stake your eth, you can stake it and you got to wait a little bit until it gets staked and then you earn your yield or exit if you want to unstake to sell usually is why you would unstake. You know, depending on how big the queue is, is how long you got to wait. And then obviously there was a ton of unstaking in this October frame here, September 25th, you know, everything happened, everybody's unstaking. It takes time to unstake and then you start selling and then it's sells to the point where there's nobody literally left to unstake the unstaking, the unstaking queue. I again, basically they're saying the unstaking queue is collapsed to zero. I've seen multiple tweets and multiple, you know, multiple charts showing that this validator queue has gone to basically zero for an unstake. And then as you can see, the staking queue of the blue here has, has shot up into the new year. So people, yeah, I mean again, if you bought the hype and you got kind of washed out a little bit and you want to take your tax loss harvest like we talked about earlier in the week, that this, this chart completely adds up with that and the price action as well.

Brian (27:32)

Yeah, you nailed it. And I think these staking ETFs and big bit mine staking and Tom Lee's threw out some crazy numbers of how much they're going to earn just by staking their holdings. I think as we see that mature and develop over the next few months, it's going to really open more institutional eyes, more retail eyes. Again, like just another reason why man, I do TiVo, I'm telling you, I feel like we bottom ticked. I've been talking about chopping a lot and again we could take a small percentage up or down, but I really feel like we found this Local bottom. And this, the bullish news that we're talking about every single week is now going to start to translate to positive price movement. I'm booed up again. I'm super bowled up. I was a little bit wary in December, didn't really know where everything was going for good reason. And now with just, just seeing, not, I don't want to say manipulation, but just seeing how the news has changed so quickly and kind of how this probably shook out in the back rooms, I'm like, all right, it's probably time for big daddy to start dusting off some fiat and buying a little bit more of this spot because it feels like it's a good time.

Joe (28:38)

Yeah, yeah, I agree. And I think we, we covered it really well into the end of the year. Again, this isn't personal financial advice for anybody. You got to do your own research. We're not personal financial advisors. And we all, we all invest in trade in different ways. But I think one thing that we've consistently said is that yes, even though Brian is a momentum money maker, you know, a lot of his stuff is in kind of a buy and hold strategy, right? You're just, you're especially your bitcoin, your Ethereum. And I kind of felt like after the October fall, you know, liquidation event, I was like, okay, there's going to be more to go here, so maybe I should just sell and hold. But at that point, you're sitting on gains, you don't want the tax. And then so I was like, all right, that just feels like the selling felt like the same side of the boat. And I always like to be on the other side of the boat usually or at least in the middle of the boat in the snack room. But so I was like, all right, I'm not going to, I'm not going to, I'm not going to sell. And then, and then it crashed down. I was like, ah, crap, that would have been nice to save that. But at the same time, then you got to deal with the tax implications. And then, then, then in the end of the year it went from like, oh, everybody wants to sell to now. It's like, all right, yeah, I guess if you did buy in the 120 to, you know, 110 range and then with Ethereum and all coins, like, yeah, you probably do want to take that tax loss harvest. So then that was a self fulfilling prophecy into the end of the year. And then I agree with you, man. Nobody, nobody feels bullish at all. It feels, it's tumbleweeds. It's tumbleweeds out there. And like, I've said this so many times on this program, we see you like, we see the numbers. When, when the price action rockets, our numbers go crazy. Which is awesome because there's people hopefully that trust us, that remember, you know, hey, when there's crypto action, they want to come here. But it's also tons of new people checking it out for the first time. And I think we're so lucky that we have such a strong base for our podcast that there's tons of people that are always here. So shout out to you guys. We love you guys. But like the N. Yeah. Then when the numbers go down, it goes with the price action. You can see it. And then when the price action comes back, they'll be back. And that's another contrarian signal to watch. So I, I feel like I agree with you. There's some bottom ticks here that I really, really, really like. And the number one thing was, I told you, I think the other episode, it was over Christmas, it was like, hey, I had my uncle texting me in, you know, May and June, like, hey, like, is it finally time? Should I buy some of this bitcoin? And I was like, that's it. Like, it's over. Like it's over. And then I, I made sure of a point, I made sure of a point to like, ha, like, talk about the podcast. At one point when he was around and like, he didn't even, yeah, he was just on his phone, he didn't ask anything about work, crypto didn't ask about bitcoin, which probably means maybe he bought it and got washed. But again, I agree with you, there's a bottom tick here. And I think some of these signs of again, the long term holders buying, nobody wants to unstake anymore, which is kind of a contrarian sell signal or non sell signal for, for Ethereum. And then like you said, bit mine, man. Bit mine. Continues to stake. They, they have over $1 billion staked in just a few, a few days.

Brian (31:43)

I mean, that's crazy when you really think about it. It's millions and millions of dollars that they're going to be earning. I forget the exact number off the top of my head, but it's something absurd. And I'm like, man, that's just a business in itself.

Joe (31:57)

Is just taking it on the chin because he puts out his wild price targets and, and credit to him. I mean, he puts out wild stuff and we've played it on the show and it has not come true yet. But again, if you go into the Tom Lee vault, you know, you don't want to fight a Tom Lee back in, what was it, 2017 or something with Bitcoin, like 5K. And he's just like, yeah, we should. Everybody should have 1% in Bitcoin, like back when it was a 5K. So, like, you don't want to go back into the Tom Lee Volt and fade him when he's talking about that stuff. But I'll say in the short term, that guy's taking some shots on Twitter, but he still shows up, he still tweets, he still does his press runs. Obviously he's biased with, you know, being the chairman of Bit Mine and his company Fund Strat, but I think it's, it's a fascinating storyline to follow. And like you said, once they stake this and start getting. It's basically revenue, right? Like yield earning is revenue and, you know, just one solid pop of. Of Ethereum, like a, you know, 15, 20%, 25% pop in Ethereum. Talk about a victory lap that that guy will be able to take. And then again, does it. Does that snowball effect and get more people to want to buy in more companies, more banks or, or like Morgan Stanley building their digital wallet. Like, they didn't announce what chain they might want to, you know, put put on their assets. But again, it's probably Ethereum, it's probably Solana, one of the two, at least, if not both of the ETFs that they're going to offer. Right?

Brian (33:28)

Yeah, it's. It's exciting. And again, shout out to Tom Lee because he was, he was showing up and he was taking on the chin there when we were, you know, bleeding the wrong, direct, wrong direction in Eastland from, for. To. I think once we see some bullish, Once we see some price action, bounce back. I think, I think they're gonna not bring up those, those days for very long. I'm excited for where we're headed.

Joe (33:56)

Yeah, let's see. Just to put a cap on Ethereum, 2025 was the second worst year in Ethereum's history with only three green months. So if you're talking about per month basis, only three green months. You hate to see that. We're going to keep an eye on for everybody for 2026 to see what, see what Ethereum can do. I think, I think it's. In my, in my opinion, I think it's. One of the most interesting storylines is actually Ethereum Solana bringing real world assets on chain and then seeing where these, you know, brokerages and big banks and legacy, you know, legacy financial banks like Morgan Stanley, Robinhood's not legacy per se, but they're definitely new age. Choosing Arbitrum on Ethereum and seeing where these companies are going to start going, I think that's the narrative that could be the snowball effect for kind of your next outperformer, at least for the blue chips.

Brian (34:58)

Yeah. And then we didn't even talk about stablecoins. Stablecoins was such a buzzword in 2025 is how it's going to change the entire, entire legacy financial institution. And that's another reason why people should be very bullish on Ethereum. That's Tom Lee's theory. A lot of time is struck. It's very structurally bullish for Ethereum. All these stablecoin payment rails that are going to be taking over and implemented this year. So again, there's no shortage of bullish news. And we were all kind of scratching our head for a long time why the price action was depressed and then there was FUD and then there was liquidations. But it feels like it's behind us. And this Morgan Stanley news is bit mine news. All this bullish news I think is going to suppress over the past few weeks of choppiness. And it's another reason why I'm really starting to drink the Kool Aid again. And I think we're going to have this really interesting first quarter of 2026. I really do.

Joe (35:56)

Yeah. Speaking of the Kool Aid, a nice tall glass of XRP with the XRP army would be nice on this hot Florida day down south. I thought this was fascinating. CNBC just started shilling xrp. I know that, you know, it's obviously a, a great community, but I, I just thought this was fascinating kind of segment on cnbc. So let's take a listen.

Brian (36:20)

Hottest crypto trade of the year is not Bitcoin. It is not ether. It is XRP, the coin formerly known as Ripple, soaring more than 20% this year, becoming the third largest cryptocurrency out there. And there's big money behind this trade. Mackenzie Sagalis joins us now with that XRP trade and what Mac is driving all of this interest in xrp.

Joe (36:44)

Fascinating segment, I think, to have on, you know, on national television. I think it gives a lot of, a lot of credence, a lot of love to the XRP army, a lot of excitement and again, whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't, it doesn't matter. It's there, the hype's there. And so I think this is the type of story that you know, you could kind of carbon copy for a salon, a foreign ethereum, for a Sui or for any, for any coin that gets high end publicity like that that again is going to start bringing not only the masses but you know, larger institutions as well to double, triple, down. And I think that's, that's kind of the. Let me just get your take on XRP and then I can lead us to a broader conversation of liquidity.

Brian (37:30)

XRP and Ripple myself have always had this very odd relationship because I'm not a part of the Ripple army but they come out in full force and it trades like a meme coin sometimes and I love those momentum plays. So I have dipped my toes into xrp but I've never looked at it as exactly what they're because of the tokenomics and the holdings and we can go on and on about that. But on the other side of things, I want Ripple and XRP to get attention. I want it to go up. I want the Ripple army to absolutely get rich because that's only good for the entire crypto market as a whole. So this is great to see that CNBC is talking about Ripple. I, I still need some convincing to dedicate some of my, you know, legacy funds from the other cryptos over to Ripple. But I have a lot of close friends, some family members that are part of XRP and they will go blue in the face defending everything about it. And I'm just like, you know what, I want you to get rich. I want XRP to go where you want it to go because it's going to be good for my bags too. But personally I'm not a holder, but shout out XRP army segment on CNBC is good stuff.

Joe (38:41)

Yeah, let's hear what the back end of that was with bitcoin's mainstream now. Interesting. Yeah, just I don't know that I know.

Brian (38:49)

Who would have thought a lot?

Joe (38:51)

A little bit of, a little bit of fluff, A little bit of fluff on the XRP segment, I gotta say. But when you're having XRP day on cnbc, it's something that you have to, you have to take note. And so we love the XRP army here. We root them on and, and who knows, who knows, maybe we'll, the whole goal is that we can, we can go to the moon together. But a team that I guess agreed that they're not going to the moon together is zcash. Brian, you brought this to my attention. Pass it off to you. Yeah, great segue. I'm a professional. But hand this off to you for zcash. Zcash developed zcash was kind of the bell of the ball. I'm going to pull it up on coin market cap while you tee us up here because some great price movement from Zcash, especially in 25. Right. But seems like there's some, some disagreement in the team.

Brian (39:43)

I just want to jump back to Ripple real quick, the Ripple Army. Once the yachts get fired up, don't Forget to invite TiVo and I, you know, just get us a spot on that yacht, that Ripple army yacht. I'll do whatever you want. But according to zcash as everybody, if you're not familiar zcash, they're a major privacy coin. They do a lot of interesting things within privacy and Privacy coming into 20 end of 2025 into 2026. AI16Z wrote a bunch about this, but privacy is going to be a big meta we like to call it coming into this year. So zcash has been absolutely ripping. It is a legacy coin. I used to own zcash back in the day and it, it went up pretty nicely. I forget exactly what the all time high was or when that actually hit, but it was moving and then it was actually performing quite well up until this morning. And then we wake up and we find out that the zcash developers had a little bit of a little tiff and I think they're threatening or some of them have said that they're going to open their own privacy chain. I honestly didn't even know zcash had major developers working on their chain. I guess it's just ignorant of me not thinking that, but when I saw that I was like, oh, I thought they were, I don't know, I just thought it was like a privacy chain running on its own and we were buying it because of the privacy meta. But this is very interesting that they're talking about opening their own privacy chain or a company after a little bit of a board clash. I don't think this is going to take zcash to zero. I do think that this is a little bit bearish right now for zcash and you know, there's going to be some tough times there for some zcash holders, but I don't think it's going to go to zero. I think it's going to probably recover. There's some very, and this could be very bullish. And I, I've been thinking about this and wanted to talk to the Momentum Momentum moneymakers community about this. Probably more in our newsletter next week, but this could be a nice little beta play over to like the Moneros, the xrm that's another privacy chain. We talked to Momentum moneymakers shout out to anybody in the chat from the MMM group about Umbra, which is the Solana privacy layer that was released on Metadao recently. And I think that has some very interesting mechanics to it and tokenomics to it. So this could be, this might be short term here, bearish for zcash because nobody likes to see developers leave and threaten to open their own chain. But this could be bullish for some other privacy coins over there. So, you know, a little bit of alpha. I may hold her. So I want everybody to know. But Umbra over on Solana, I'm going to definitely be keeping a close eye on it over the next few days to see if some of these zcash holders are like, hey, we don't like this back and forth. We're going to go over to another privacy because privacy is not going anywhere.

Joe (42:35)

Yeah, I think that's across the board, whether it's crypto or the stock market. Privacy companies like CrowdStrike, I think CrowdStrike is one of the top performers in the last three years just because again, with AI, there's more threats and with more threats you need more security and more security means more privacy. And, and so any, any project like that seems to be a bell of the ball and, and I agree with you, is not going away. At least the narrative is not going away. And again, for Momentum moneymakers, like Brian said, if that's the type of stuff, if you want that early access to Brian and Joe's thoughts, there's a dollar trial. It's the new year. We want to give everybody access to it if they're interested. For $1. Check the link below so you can get kind of the first, first alert for Brian and Joe's Momentum Moneymakers. We cover it all the time. Just some absolute winners in there. But don't, don't cry, don't cry for the Zcash family quite yet. Yeah, one week down. 16 here you see on the screen. But for all those saying, when's altcoin season? I mean, one year after that, 16 decline. One year. And we, I know we covered Zcash when it was flying high. I mean this, this rip from man, that was, you know, late September to.

Brian (43:45)

Got to like 800, 700.

Joe (43:47)

Yeah, that's, that's crazy. That's crazy is 800% move there so you know there's there's winners. There's winners out there, man. There's winners out there and ZCast seems to be forming a base here so we'll see if we'll keep tabs on it obviously and see if this news is something that is more of a takedown of the recent price action or just kind of forms a base and and zcash is still a winner. But let's it's a good transition with momentum money makers to kind of hand the ball off to you. We were going to do it the other day. We ran into some technical difficulties. I was a huge proponent of the Pudgy Penguin action over the holiday there. Brian, with just tons going on.

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Joe (45:47)

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Brian (46:08)

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Joe (46:13)

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Brian (46:19)

Yeah, the Pudgy Penguin team is continuing to produce. I think the price is up a little bit. You know, whenever we see A big uptick with, you know, the majors, you know, and the crypto market looks healthy. Of course meme coins are going to fly. We saw that just recently, we talked about that on Monday that bitcoin maybe had a 5% move, but some like the Pepes of the world had 20% moves. Pudgy penguins had huge moves. But they're out here continuing to just absolutely rock it, as you just showed a moment ago. That's a Luca Nets tweet. Yeah. What's it up the last week? 32%. Let's go.

Joe (46:56)

Absolutely, absolutely. That's.

Brian (47:01)

Show us. I'm a big Pudgy Penguin fan. You know, they're not just a Plushie Co. Selling 50 to $100 million of toys in Walmart, Target and Amazon. They're not just an NFT company. They're not just a world breaking Web three company. They're doing it all. And what else they did is they paid about a half a million bucks to go on the Vegas sphere. And at first I was like, how's that going to be? But I saw that thing everywhere. I saw people that live in Vegas, buddies of mine who know him in the crypto world, they were like, isn't this the cute penguin you're talking about? Flashing pictures of it. So it's cool. It was a lot of fun to see that they were on the Vegas sphere recently. And then they also came out the next link up there they were at the. I'm a big NHL guy. So I was watching the Winter Classic and I don't know how many other people watch Winter Classic on New Year's Day, but there's Pudgy Penguin stuff all over it. So it's great to see the NHL embrace it in the Pudgy Penguin team. So they were all over the Winter Classic festival. So this is just goes to show you that there's this integration between the Web2 world, just the standard world, and then Web3 and how something like a Meme coin or an NFT project initially like Pudgy Penguins could continue building products, getting exposure and this isn't going to happen overnight. That's what everyone needs to understand. And it starts to integrate where we're seeing it in clips of NHL commercials, we're seeing on Vegas spheres, we're playing the games before you know it. I think the Pudgy Penguin is going to be more and more recognizable to people that don't even know it's associated to a crypto company. I think I've told you about my son once In Walmart. We're walking around, and he grabbed one of the Pudgy Penguin toys. You can't see it on my back right now, but he grabbed it. He's like, I want this. I want this. And I looked at it. I was like, oh, yeah, it's the Pudgy Penguin toy. We'll buy this plushie. I scanned it, and I. I think that you did get rewards, or you are going to get rewards in Pengu. But he didn't buy it because it was related to crypto at all. He bought it because he liked the aesthetic. They're doing some great things out here. So shout out to Luca. Let's get him on the podcast here soon.

Joe (49:05)

Yeah, that's. That's a goal. I'm. Trust me, I'm working on it. I'm trying my best. The. I. I also was a purchaser of Pudgy Penguin apparel. I bought the book. I got the Pudgy book. I bought it off of Amazon. It got there in time. I gave it to my nephew for Christmas. He's a little too young, but he definitely enjoyed it. He said, penguin, penguin. But I thought what was more interesting was actually all the adults. So I, you know, you open the gift, it's a book, and they're like, oh, what's that in the book? And I'm kind of explaining, you know, it's my. It's my meme coin.

Brian (49:39)

Your uncle's pissed in the corner.

Joe (49:44)

And I'm telling them, I'm just like, yeah, like, there's a penguin. But, like, here's what it was kind of to your point of the store, they were all like, oh, and they're flipping through the pages. They're like, either these penguins are so cute. I love them. I love these penguins. And there's just something. There's something about Pudgy when you see them, whether it's on a book, on your screen, on your phone, or in person at the Winter Classic here, you know, you just. You just think they're. They're cute, and you just want to run up and squeeze them. I'm sure if you saw him in person there, you'd want to run up and give that penguin a hug and take a picture. So I think that. Name another meme coin. It would be hard to name one. You're our meme coin expert. That during the downfall of price action and into the end of the year, right? The doldrums of the price action. What other meme coin was raising revenue selling plush toys and books and pez dispensers. And it's hard, obviously, Rex out there doing their thing, but it's. I think there's few and far between of the projects that are actually trying to, you know, build a brand and build a business behind it. And my guess is that when the price action turns around, you get that healthy bounce of crypto. Price action. Yes. A rising tide lifts all boats, but again, you're trying to find those winners. So I think it's interesting, their game.

Brian (51:02)

Their game's elite too. Man, you should. Oh, your nephew's young. I was gonna say you should get them on the pudgy party game. My kids love it. It's a great mobile game. Like when they're just bugging the heck out of me in the car, I give them my phone and they're like pudgy penguins. The game. And it's a really fun game. And just wait until they probably access some sort of flywheel to reward players points to tokens. There's a. There's a lot of levers they can pull to make this thing really take off. Now. It's gonna. It's gonna be a slow cook too. You know, nothing happens overnight. We can see, like the digital gold, the bitcoins of the world. The greatest story I think out there you could talk about, but it's gonna be a slow cook. It's gonna be volatile, but. Well, I'll tell you what, it's a.

Joe (51:45)

Slow cook until it's not. I mean, 31 a week is nothing to sneeze at. I mean, that's gains for, you know, two years, basically. If you're just gonna throw it into the S P and close your eyes and hope for an average year so you get that in seven days, that's definitely nothing to sneeze at. But just want to. Before we continue on with Brian, two things. Number one again, momentum, money makers, $1 trial. Check it out in the chat if you want that first alert from Brian and Joe getting their newsletters. And it's just. It really is such a fun community. There's so, so many great people in there. Check out the link below. Give it a try. Also, shout out to the YouTube chat. We haven't gotten into the flow yet of planning these and. And promoting them. We're gonna get back into that.

Brian (52:25)

They're live right now.

Joe (52:27)

They're live in the chat. Right? We didn't even promote it, which is a testament to our community and how much it's growing. But, man, we got Blazing Bandit. We've got Blazing Bandit. We've got Smokey the Bandit, the Bandits are out in full force Zen style. 2 6. I know Grant's out there as well so just absolute thank you guys for rocking the chat. And yeah, it's going to be a great year of lives. It's, it is going to be a priority to try to get those more scheduled and get more of the community in here which is always more fun. But let's, let's move on with whatever. You, you, you take the show, you take the reins, I'll produce. Tell me where you want to go.

Brian (53:02)

Oh yeah, yeah, let's go to the next one. You know NFTs have been interesting. They actually when we saw the bounce in the crypto majors with Bitcoin up 5% we saw some NFTs across the board. I get that the NFTs market isn't like what it was in 2021, but there's still some huge sales happening out there. Actually friendly with Anonymous. So shout out. Great sale by him to Raoul Paul. I mean he's. Raoul Paul's one of the biggest X copy bulls out there. And if anybody wants to know X copy is he is if there's a Mount Rushmore for digital artists out there, he would be one of those on Mount Rushmore. He's one of the most well known non doxed artists out there. This is a one of one of his. I actually my Twitter profile is a X copy grifter and it's one of the few NFTs that I just grail hold and I absolutely love it. So it's great to see that major sales like this are still happening. And Raoul, he's buying it up for about $611,000. A1 of 1 huge huge W by the seller, huge W by the buyer and it's just great to see that some NFTs are moving and we can roll into the next topic. I wore the rec hat for a reason Tebow, because you know what's happening. They got another drink coming out. This was announced I think yesterday. It's a, a collaboration with world star the Hip Hop with their cherry cola. So they're still moving, they're still getting major partnerships. They got partnerships with X Games, partnerships, all these. The moon pays the open seas. This is another token out there like Pudgy Penguin that was an NFT company that turned into a meme coin that turned on the flywheel and now they have this meme coin to real world product that's actually moving the needle. I know the tokens kind of Been flat recently. It had a nice balance with the rest of the market. But now you can go in and they. Osf, who's the founder actually said a couple weeks ago that they're just going to get these activations going soon you're going to be able to go into a store. I know Giant Eagle out in the Midwest is going to be one. You can buy a wreck to case scan the barcode and you're going to be able to collect req tokens off of the physical case soon. I don't know when that's actually going to happen, but when you start seeing more and more people choosing rec drinks because they like it and because they can get like a meme coin or a brand token out of it, it's just disrupting the consumer world or the brand world like we've never seen. And huge shout out to the team for this major collaboration. I'd love to see it. And I'm gonna be a buyer. I'm gonna buy this. So I don't, I don't know if you get tokens or anything, but I got enough rec drinks now. I need to try it.

Joe (55:44)

Yeah, Cherry cola man. And then I. World star Hip hop. What a. What a collab. I remember back in the day, I mean, I guess they still got all the viral, the viral hits and they'd have those taglines for maybe that was hot. New hip hop was like world star hotnewhip.com. those are, those are the days. Going through the Internet and hearing those taglines, World star. That's when you knew, that's when you knew the video was going viral.

Brian (56:11)

Yeah, no doubt. And it's a great collab. So I love to see it. You know, I love to talk about prediction markets. I, I think this is the prediction market super cycle. I mean you can't even get. There's just every day you, you wake up and you see more and more news about prediction markets. Poly markets, cmo, I believe it is actually doubled down and made more announcements that they're probably going to be a poly token. So even more reasons to just check it out. And we have a, we have a lot. We're going to talk about the next tab here. But you can see that there is a pretty big partnership here where they're going to launch real estate prediction markets powered by Parcel. So shout out to Parcel as well. Great news. And we've had like a lot of people talking about polymart and this is, this was sparked with Venezuela actually. There was a, there was like a guy who made like hundreds of thousands of dollars like on like the, what happened in Venezuela and the dates and there was like some really well timed bets here happening and now we have some planned bills that could keep government insiders out of utilizing these prediction markets. I don't know that that might be tough to keep people from doing this. And then I saw like a tweet thread, I think it was Brian Armstrong from Coinbase talking about how the truth is actually in these insiders. You know when you see these big pop. Yeah. And it kind of makes you think you're like, yeah, you're right. Like they're just early the game and it really. So maybe you don't like the wagering of the peer to peer of Poly Market and I get that. But it's becoming more and more clear that the news is being pushed through these prediction markets. Probably because insiders are just hammering it when they get an opportunity. But if you really want the truth, you look where people, people, where people put their money. That's exactly what these prediction markets are doing. And that's why we're seeing huge partnerships out there. And I think, yeah, go to the next tab. Polymarket even just signed.

Joe (58:13)

I want to kick around, kick around that thought, the Brian Armstrong interview, because I, I digested that at first. I was like, no, it's not fair if you have inside info, like that's insider trading. But it was interesting how he eloquently put it. And then I thought about it for a little. I was like, yeah, I guess that is right. Like if, if we're in this, is in this age. I ran out of tinfoil from the segment a couple segments ago. But if, if you want to, if you want to say we're in this age where it's hard to find, you know, good truthful information, then the insiders are important. And being an insider gets you, you know, again, if you're going to go gamble and make money on it, then being an insider gets you reward rewarded for being an insider. Even though it's inside information, the truth comes out. And so like, okay, well why should we, why should somebody, you know, want to tell the truth? It's like it's still a transactional world that we live in, right. If you do something, most of the time you want to get paid. If you work, you want to get paid. So like now we're in this era where just information is everywhere and it's, you know, some of it's funny, some of it's AI, some of its jokes, some of it's serious. Some of it's misinformation. It's like there's kind of this, these prediction markets have organically kind of come up now as a way to maybe find the truth through a reward for somebody who has insider information. Which I think is a fascinating just concept to think about.

Brian (59:41)

Yeah, it's certainly an interesting concept. But this is also the same guy, like at the end of an investor call, just rattled off, you know, like 40 mention market. Remember that? I think that was Brian. I'm sure he was like, yeah, Tony White Horse, like he just rattled 40 off. He's signed off. So there has to probably be some.

Joe (60:03)

Fine line of like, yeah, like something like that where he knows he's hitting these things and his intern can get paid. Or like, you know, what song is, what song are the Philadelphia Eagles going to come out to in the super bowl, you know, this year? And then like, you know, the guy who's running the soundboard at the stadium knows it type of thing. It's like, that's not information that we need to know. But then if you start getting to more serious things like election results or wars or things like that, then it is, it is. I don't know if need to know is the right way to say it, but it's fair to, for, for the people to want to know the truth.

Brian (60:38)

Yeah, no doubt about it. So it's just interesting to see how these prediction markets are disrupting technology, just like how crypto is disrupting the financial world. And you can see we've had like polymarket, you know, 2 billion, I think it was from ICE, from the new New York Stock Exchange's parent company. Now we have partnerships with the Dow Jones, the Wall Street Journal. What this goes to show us is that there's just major demand and desire behind the truth and behind this data. These companies want it, they see the value in it. So this is why I'm convinced prediction markets aren't going to go anywhere. And there might be some structuring that needs to be settled in some, you know, safe walls put into place. But prediction markets aren't going anywhere. I think they're going to thrive in 2026 and even to the point where it's actually changed my investing TiVo to a small point like we'll have these upcoming ICOs and you could put money towards the ICO or you could go over to polymarket and you could put a small wager in on where you think the FDV or the total commits are going to be for those ICOs or if you don't want to put the wager in, you could at least get more information from people that are probably committing money to the ico, what where they like those prices to go, buy their actions on polymarket to see where they think the total commits are going to go, where the FDV is going to open at. So it's just a wealth of information, not just in the financial markets and the real estate markets and culture. It's everything. So it's definitely a rabbit hole that I keep going down pretty hard. I know it's something we talk about all the time on the rundown. I mean, we were talking about Polymarket before Polymarket was like really a thing early on Credit show.

Joe (62:21)

I was like, they're credit to us. Credit to us.

Brian (62:25)

Credit to us. Credit to us.

Joe (62:27)

And credit to you more than anybody though. You were, you were the first, you were the first one. You really were. Brian.

Brian (62:35)

Yeah, I, I like, I like some degenerate worlds, you know, once it starts popping up on my timeline, you know, meme coins, prediction market edges. And I try to get as much truthful data as possible and I try to digest it so I can digest it to our community because I need to understand it to help people out. And there's just a plethora of information out there. And in one site that I go to consistently is polymarket to just get for a vibe on where markets are going. And it's not always 100%. Right. I'm not wagering a ton on there, but I certainly go there daily. And now the Dow Jones and Wall Street Journal definitely likes where we're headed as well.

Joe (63:14)

Yeah, I mean, where else can you get action on the Delaware blue hens at 3pm on, you know, was it Wednesday afternoon in San Diego, California? There's nowhere else in the world other than the, the prediction markets, that's for damn sure. But speaking of ICOs, you got one you wanted to talk about there or trove?

Brian (63:32)

Oh yeah, yeah, Trove. Trove Markets. I just was going to make a call because I actually opened today. This is not an endorsement for anybody to dive into it or invest in it, but we were talking about Poly Market and there's some interesting ICOs popping out. This is kind of the real world assets. They're actually like a market for real world assets or collectibles where you can get exposure to a Pokemon index or Birkin Bag index. So these collectibles like real world assets that you may be, aren't buying or you're not able to buy, but now it trades like you can trade up to 10x leverage on where you think those markets are going to go. They have an interesting ICO popping up. I honestly, you know, let everybody kind of do their own research on it and what they think of it, but I was actually following this on Polymarket on their ICO ticker of like what the FDV was going to open at and the total commits. But you know, it's just, you know, an interesting ICO that's popping up and there's a lot of really good ICOs we've talked about within our private community. We've talked about Crypt Nation. So just, just excited to see that there's still people building and developing products out there that just aren't cookie cutter like L2S. You know, people are really thinking outside of the box and making cool stuff.

Joe (64:50)

Oh, that's awesome, man. Well, again, money, momentum, money makers. Check the link out for a dollar trial if you want to be kind of kept in the know when it comes to, you know, all the different ICOs and all the different momentum plays, whether it's NFTs or meme coins that Brian and Joe are doing. That was a spirited conversation. One hour on the dot. Brian, I told you when I saw that sheet I said I think this one's an hour. I think it's an hour. And it certainly was and it was really fun. So really appreciate everybody. If you're on the back end of this and haven't yet, please give the video a like. If you're new here, please subscribe and again check out the dollar trial for Momentum money makers. We really appreciate you all listening. Look out in the YouTube community. I'll try to get a schedule out for our live streams next week. As always, we appreciate everybody being here. Enjoy the weekend and we'll talk to everybody soon. Bye bye everybody.

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