CRYPTO 101 – Ep. 680: "The Future of Staking: Marinade Finance CCO on Solana, ETFs & MNDE Token"
Date: October 2, 2025
Host(s): Bryce Paul & Brendan Viehman
Guest: Hadley Stern, Chief Commercial Officer, Marinade Finance
Episode Overview
This episode dives into the rapidly evolving world of staking on Solana with Marinade Finance. Chief Commercial Officer Hadley Stern offers an in-depth look at Marinade’s mission—making Solana’s staking secure, decentralized, and accessible to both retail and institutional participants. The conversation touches on staking mechanisms, the role of Marinade’s MNDE token, how ETFs interface with staking, staking yields, and connecting DeFi with traditional finance.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. What Is Marinade Finance?
Time: [00:52–02:12]
- Marinade Finance focuses exclusively on Solana staking.
- Acts as a "validator marketplace"—does not run its own validators, but distributes staked SOL across hundreds of independent validators to promote decentralization.
- Over $2 billion TVL on the platform, with product lines in liquid staking (mSOL) and native staking ("Marinate Native").
Quote:
"We don't run any validators ourselves. Instead, we're kind of a validator marketplace... people stake with us either through msol, our liquid staking token, or through Marinate Native."
— Hadley Stern [01:12]
2. The Basics of Staking and Marinade’s Role
Time: [02:12–04:04]
- Staking is essential for running proof-of-stake networks like Solana.
- Users could manually stake but need technical skill; Marinade simplifies the process through a user-friendly dApp or institutional integration (e.g., Zodia, BitGo).
- Offers entry points for both retail and institutions.
Quote:
“Staking providers like Marinade make it very easy... you can connect your wallet and stake through there. You can also, if you're an institution, stake through Zodia Copper or BitGo.”
— Hadley Stern [03:27]
3. Liquid Staking vs. Native Staking
Time: [15:20–18:08]
- mSOL (Liquid Staking Token): Designed for DeFi, allows further earning mechanisms (e.g., lending, looping).
- Native Staking: Short unlock times (48 hours on Solana), better suited for institutions and ETFs as it retains self-custody and avoids smart contract risk.
- Contrast with Ethereum, where the need for LSTs is more pronounced due to long unlock times.
Quotes:
“The real utility of an LST is that you can do other things with it in DeFi… you can loop your MSOL... where your reward can be increased depending on the market. You can’t do that natively.”
— Hadley Stern [16:41]
“When you natively stake in Solana, you retain custody of the Solana in your wallet... if we go away, you can still unstake your native stake without us being involved.”
— Hadley Stern [17:14]
4. Expanding Institutional Access: ETFs & Regulatory Landscape
Time: [10:07–13:56]
- Hadley’s role focuses on bringing Marinade’s staking marketplace to institutions through legal/compliance frameworks and strategic partnerships.
- Marinade is involved in ETF initiatives, such as the Canary Marinade Solana ETF (first-of-its-kind ETF filing in the US).
- Regulatory conversation with the SEC has shifted positively—recent guidance clarifies staking is not classified as a securities transaction.
Quotes:
“We are now bringing [Marinade] to institutions... doing the business deals and integration deals with Zodiac... Bitgo... and were the first ETF application in the US for the Canary Marinade Solana ETF.”
— Hadley Stern [10:45]
"Staking is not a financial product, it's an outcome or an output of a delegation that happens on a proof of stake network."
— Hadley Stern [12:30]
5. Decentralization & Security in Staking for ETFs
Time: [11:57–13:56]
- Marinade decentralizes staked assets for ETFs, using 30 KYC-verified validators, contrasting with rivals that might centralize all funds with one validator.
- Cautions that heavy ETF adoption can create centralization and security risks (as seen with Bitcoin ETFs custodized by Coinbase).
Quote:
“Our product takes that Solana and decentralizes it automatically amongst 30 validators and is much more beneficial to the Solana network.”
— Hadley Stern [13:42]
6. Staking Yield Dynamics
Time: [13:56–15:20]
- Yield is dictated by Solana’s blockchain, not by Marinade or platform TVL.
- Inflation proposals impact rewards; current APY is ~8%, but this is dynamic and may fluctuate.
Quote:
"This is not a bond or a CD... the APY right now is around, is settled around 8%... you can view that as like a six months to a year kind of out. Anything else is, is really up for grabs as Solana evolves."
— Hadley Stern [14:51]
7. DeFi Strategies: Looping and Leverage
Time: [18:22–19:54]
- Looping (aka Multiply): Use mSOL as collateral to borrow, buy more mSOL, increase yield—but with leverage and liquidation risk.
- Not considered rehypothecation; suitable for advanced DeFi users, not for ETFs or conservative investors.
Quote:
"It's definitely leverage. It's not rehypothecation... you're able to take, say, $700 of that MSOL, borrow USD against it, pay us an interest rate... and then use that $700 that you've lent to buy more MSOL."
— Hadley Stern [18:44]
8. Marinade MNDE Token: Utility and Value Accrual
Time: [08:32–09:47, 19:54–20:54]
- MNDE token is issued for governance and value representation of Marinade; no token or equity raise ever done.
- Current efforts focus on revenue accrual to the token—buybacks and programmatic links between business performance and MNDE value.
Quotes:
"We use that treasury strategically... and we're also working this quarter on making sure our revenue gets accrued back to the token because we are positive from an ARR standpoint."
— Hadley Stern [09:13]
“We're also working on a programmatic way to connect better our TVL revenue to the MND token. Our desire is to have that token reflect as best as possible the value of the business.”
— Hadley Stern [20:48]
9. Traditional Finance Meets DeFi: Hadley's Personal Takeaways
Time: [20:54–22:47]
- Hadley’s strategic superpower: bridging TradFi (Fidelity background) and DeFi.
- Each sphere has unique risk and operational frameworks—DeFi excels at innovative product, TradFi at risk management and operations.
- Importance of communication and learning between both sectors.
Quote:
“If I have one super power in life... it's connecting those two worlds. On the TRADFI side, it's really about helping Defi understand the way that Tradfi looks at risk and operations... There's also pieces on the Defi side in terms of key storage, key management that Tradfi doesn't know much about.”
— Hadley Stern [21:40]
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- “We are experts on everything to do with Solana staking.” — Hadley Stern [01:00]
- “Our product decentralizes automatically amongst 30 validators... much more beneficial to the Solana network.” — Hadley Stern [13:44]
- "I was very lucky to have my crypto journey start at Fidelity... spun up the bitcoin incubator in 2014." — Hadley Stern [21:21]
- “It was the best of times and the worst of times.” — Bryce Paul [21:43, referencing the divide between TradFi and DeFi]
Timestamps for Key Segments
- [00:52] – What is Marinade? The origin story and mission
- [02:12] – Staking basics and provider advantages
- [08:32] – The MNDE token and governance
- [10:07] – CCO focus: retail vs. institutional markets; new ETF involvement
- [11:57] – ETF structure, decentralization, and regulatory update
- [13:56] – How staking yield is determined and its sustainability
- [15:38] – Liquid vs. native staking: use cases for each
- [18:22] – Looping/leverage in DeFi and risk considerations
- [19:54] – Value accrual for MNDE token holders
- [20:54] – Lessons from bridging TradFi and DeFi
Tone & Final Takeaways
The conversation is candid, technical yet accessible, and open about the evolving challenges and opportunities at the DeFi–institutional interface. Hadley’s deep experience and vision highlight both the practical mechanics and broader philosophical trajectories in crypto staking. Bryce’s questions guide the discussion toward actionable insights for both retail investors and institutional market participants, making this an essential listen for anyone watching Solana’s next phase or DeFi’s intersection with traditional finance.