CRYPTO 101 – Ep. 685: Exploring Tezos: The Future of Blockchain Governance

Date: October 21, 2025
Hosts: Bryce Paul & Brendan Viehman
Guest: Arthur Breitman, Co-Founder of Tezos

Overview

In this episode, Bryce and Brendan sit down with Arthur Breitman, co-founder of Tezos, to deeply explore Tezos's approach to blockchain governance, technical innovation, and the evolving role of layer one blockchains. The episode covers Tezos’s origin story, its unique position in a crowded L1 landscape, the critical importance of governance, scaling solutions, and takes a candid look at crypto’s market cycles and broader macro trends.

Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Tezos Origin & Governance Vision (03:10 – 05:49)

• Early Observations:

  • Arthur recounts the early days of blockchain innovation, noting how ideas (proof-of-stake, smart contracts, privacy) were originally assumed to be destined for Bitcoin.
  • He observed Bitcoin’s protocol ossifying, settling on a single vision and rejecting evolution.

• Tezos's Founding Thesis:

  • Arthur (04:03):
    “The idea of Tezos was to say, look, evolution is going to be important. There’s a lot of new technology coming...The idea was to have a governance process built in the chain that would allow the chain to evolve while remaining decentralized. So without hard forks, which I argue in the past are fundamentally centralizing—that’s the main idea.”
  • Launched with on-chain governance, robust proof-of-stake (with slashing), and advanced smart contract capabilities.
  • Nearly 20 upgrades without contentious hard forks.

2. The Nuances of Crypto Governance (09:01 – 13:51)

• Explicit vs. Implicit Governance:

  • In Bitcoin, governance is implicit—"structurelessness" that can lead to hidden centralization.
  • Tezos opts for explicit, formal governance within the protocol—enabling smooth upgrades without splitting the community.
  • Historical examples (e.g., Bitcoin’s SegWit fork) reveal that even "fork-based" governance has a power locus.

• Arthur on Governance Philosophy (11:08):
  “You always have governance. You can choose to make it explicit or you can have it imposed upon you externally...At the end of the day, the value of these networks is intersubjective. What makes a bitcoin a bitcoin is that everyone considers that it’s a bitcoin.”

3. What Are Blockchains Actually Good For? (16:17 – 22:22)

• Realistic Use Cases:

  • Arthur is skeptical of blockchain maximalism—believes it’s not needed for as many things as the industry claims.
  • Best suited for ownership networks—payments, especially permissionless/confiscation-resistant money, and global networks for asset tokenization.
  • He distinguishes between “cypherpunk” uses versus more mundane uses, e.g., Walmart lettuce tracking.

• Arthur (17:24):
  “Basically these things are ownership networks… the blockchain solves the double spend problem. If you’re not spending, if you’re not transferring a title…do you really need a blockchain?”

• Tezos Applications: Notable recent examples include uranium tokenization as global economic activity ramps up around energy and AI.

4. Power Infrastructure, Miners, and Blockchains (22:22 – 28:45)

• On AI, Power, and Supply Chains:

  • Discusses stone soup syndrome: projects over-engineering with "blockchain" as a buzzword.
  • Blockchain energy trading: possible, but requires genuine need.

• Bitcoin Mining and the Grid:

  • Bitcoin miners can help with energy grid stabilization in certain regimes, but calling it a “battery” is misleading.
  • Mining is viable where surplus energy is cheap or otherwise wasted (e.g., flared gas in Texas), but doesn't replace true energy storage solutions.

• Arthur (25:25):
  “Bitcoin acts like a battery. I think my favorite tweet at the time was when Texas was running out of power…they can put those bitcoin back into the grid, then—no, it’s not a battery.”

5. Tezos’s Unique Position & Recent Innovations (28:45 – 36:04)

• Longevity and Technological Progress:

  • Tezos balances stability/maturity with continued upgrades—uncommon for older L1s.
  • Compared to Ethereum (outsourced scaling to L2s, slowing mainnet innovation), Tezos is “always close to the frontier” with high performance, advanced features, and a strong focus on governance.

• Community & Applications:

  • Known for RWAs (security tokens), vibrant NFT art community, growing DeFi on Etherlink (Tezos’s EVM compatibility zone).
  • Demonstrated “a million transactions per second” with rollups; Tezos X roadmap promises even more.

• Recent “SOL” Upgrade (34:02):

  • Introduced BLS signatures (compression, lower bandwidth/storage needs).
  • Acts as a precursor to bigger upgrades, preparing for lower latency and higher security in upcoming Tezos X.

6. Upgrading Protocols: Tezos vs. Ethereum (36:04 – 39:01)

• Why Tezos Ships Faster:

  • Institutional knowledge from years of upgradability focus; upgrades are part of Tezos's identity and core process.
  • Ethereum upgrades are slower—upgradability is less central to its DNA, and protocol complexity/historical baggage slows progress.

• On L2s:

  • Arthur warns that many Ethereum L2s are “venture funded businesses,” not truly decentralized algorithms.
  • L2 custody risks: Most are essentially custodial with security controlled by small, central committees.
  • Ethereum’s focus on many L2s results in fragmented liquidity and user experience, whereas Tezos pursues a big monolithic rollup (Tezos X).

• Arthur (38:14):
  “Ethereum L2s give L2s a bad name. I think of L2s as a technology…But L2s are venture funded businesses, they're not algorithms.”

7. What’s Next for Tezos? (41:25 – 43:40)

• Future Roadmap:
  • Continued scaling: pursuing “millions of transactions per second” but with recognized diminishing returns.
  • Focus shifting to developer experience, e.g., full JavaScript, Java, .NET support directly on-chain—lowering barriers for mainstream devs.

8. Market Cycles, Macro Factors, and ETF Trends (43:40 – 56:04)

• Market Sentiment:

  • Current cycle confusing compared to previous ones; Arthur downplays Bitcoin halving as cycle driver, credits macro policies instead.
  • “Interest rate policy...has been a better predictor.” (44:23)

• On Crypto ETFs:

  • Skeptical that “every coin needs an ETF” but expects proliferation for accessibility in traditional markets (48:30).
  • Discusses SEC’s logic around spot vs. futures ETFs—believes regulatory thinking is outdated.

• Interest Rates vs. Halving (49:45):

  • Historically, low rates and liquidity spur bull markets in crypto; recent resilience in higher-rate environment may be due to “gambling” nature of meme coins.
  • Anticipates lower long-term rates—positive for risk assets—but warns an AI/capex bust could cause a broad market correction (and drag crypto with it).

• Arthur’s Macro Note (51:11):
  “Maybe crypto doesn’t compete with investments, maybe it competes with gambling…in that case you could survive high interest rate environment.”

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Bitcoin vs. Tezos Governance:
  “If you refuse to have this formal power structures, you’re going to have informal one…It actually becomes very easy for a small minority to control things.” (12:45, Arthur)

• On Use Cases:
  “If you want to build a traceability use case, the Tezos blockchain is open…But I will have an honest conversation with you and tell you maybe you don’t need a blockchain for this.” (19:40, Arthur)

• On L2s:
  “L2s are venture funded businesses…If tomorrow Coinbase decides it’s better for them to be an L1, they’ll become an L1. They can push their own wallet. They don’t have to work with the Ethereum ecosystem.” (39:02, Arthur)

• Fun Moment:
  “I can’t advise you on what the amounts of uranium you should have in your portfolio is. I don’t know your specifics, but it should be more than $0.01 and less than 100% of your assets.” (21:08, Arthur, joking about uranium tokenization)

Key Timestamps

• 03:10 — Tezos founding story and governance vision
• 09:25 — Crypto governance: explicit vs. implicit
• 16:17 — What blockchains are really good for
• 22:22 — Energy, power grid, and blockchain
• 25:24 — Bitcoin mining and grid stabilization
• 28:45 — Tezos’s market position, technology, and community
• 34:02 — Details of SOL upgrade and BLS signatures
• 36:04 — Protocol upgrades: Tezos vs Ethereum philosophy
• 38:14 — L2s, custody risks, and fragmented liquidity
• 41:25 — Upcoming roadmap: developer experience focus (JS, Java, .NET on-chain)
• 43:40 — Market cycles, ETF logic, and macro influences
• 49:45 — Why interest rates, not halving, drive cycles
• 54:57 — Macro warnings: AI capex, market crash, and crypto downsides

Where to Follow Arthur and Tezos

• Arthur on X (Twitter): @arthurb
• Tezos Official Resources: Tezos.com
• Additional Note: Arthur blogs infrequently, favors short-form commentary.

Summary

This episode offers a rich insider’s perspective on how Tezos disrupts the governance paradigm in crypto, keeps pace with technical innovation, and plans to make blockchain accessible for mainstream developers. Arthur Breitman’s candor and nuance—especially regarding governance, scaling, use cases, and the realities of crypto’s macro cycles—make this a must-listen for investors and builders curious about where L1s are heading in a maturing market.