CRYPTO 101 Podcast Ep. 695: CoinShares CEO on Institutions, ETFs, Treasury Companies, and Bitcoin’s Long Game

Guest: Jean Marie Mognetti, CEO & Co-founder of CoinShares
Host: Bryce Paul
Date: December 25, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Bryce Paul sits down with Jean Marie Mognetti, CEO of CoinShares, Europe’s largest digital asset manager, to explore the evolving landscape of institutional crypto adoption. Topics covered include the rise of ETFs, the institutional “catch-up” phase, the sustainability of digital asset treasury companies, and insights into crypto’s long-term value proposition. The discussion highlights both macro and micro market trends, the changing dynamic between retail and institutional investors, and practical advice for maintaining sanity in volatile markets.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The CoinShares Origin Story & Crypto’s Unifying Force (00:45 – 04:39)

• Jean Marie on CoinShares’ Beginnings:

  • Started as a hedge fund in 1998, pivoted to digital assets after 2012.
  • “We stumbled upon Bitcoin almost by mistake…you follow Alice in the rabbit hole and never kind of get out of it.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [01:10]

• Crypto as a Unifier:

  • People from diverse backgrounds enter the space, drawn by crypto’s universal relevance as money.
  • “Money has the total addressable market of like 8 billion people. Everybody needs to use it.”
    — Bryce Paul [02:18]

• Diversity of Crypto Journeys:

  • Each journey defined by exposure, openness, and connections within the community.
  • Shift from mere financial use cases to deep technological innovation underlying blockchains.

2. Public vs. Private Blockchains & Institutional Shift (04:08 – 06:31)

• On the Evolution & Failure of Private Blockchains:

  • Early private blockchains acted as stepping stones for institutional comfort.
  • “It's almost like the failure of the private blockchain is what makes it much more powerful in an open architecture, but you have to go through the failure first.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [04:39]

• Institutional Integration:

  • Institutions now use or experiment with public chains (e.g., JPMorgan Coin on Base, BlackRock’s BUIDL fund on Ethereum and BNB chain).
  • Growing cross-chain operability and stablecoin transactions during institutional downtime (e.g., SWIFT closure) signal real progress.

3. CoinShares’ Product Evolution (11:26 – 13:55)

• Product Suite:

  • Initially focused on providing exposure via ETF-like products for both institutions and retail (subject to brokerage policy).
  • Active in both European and U.S. markets, with a capital markets division now relaunching private/hedge fund products.
  • CoinShares adapts to evolving market demands, aiming to “sprinkle financial freedom into everybody’s retirement account.” [11:38]

• Strategic Approach:

  • Emphasizes gradual sophistication, moving toward tokenized and decentralized financial products as the market matures.

4. The ETF Rush & Altcoin Listings (13:15 – 16:20)

• ETF Proliferation—Net Positive or Confusing?

  • The U.S. is experiencing a rapid ETF rollout after years of lagging behind Europe.
  • “It is confusing for investors. It is confusing for advisors…You move to Ethereum, they already look at you saying what are you talking about?”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [13:55]

• CoinShares’ Alternative Approach:

  • Developed DIME: a diversified basket of 10 coins not likely to receive U.S. approval individually, providing optionality and diversification in portfolios.

5. Digital Asset Treasury Companies: The Michael Saylor Effect (16:20 – 19:00)

• Treasury Companies’ Uniqueness & Sustainability:

  • Not every company can be another MicroStrategy.
  • “There is only one Satoshi, there is only one Michael Saylor…not all treasury company are born equally.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [16:45]

• Market Implications:

  • Widespread attempts to replicate the treasury company model.
  • Current Bitcoin weakness partly due to unwinding arbitrage trades between BTC and these companies.
  • Prediction of consolidation/M&A in the treasury company space as competitive advantages wane.

6. Institutional Adoption: Still Early Innings (19:16 – 22:12)

• Institutions Are Playing Catch-Up:

  • Most still figuring out basic Bitcoin allocation.
  • Allocations tend to mirror relative market caps, with a strong “Bitcoin first” bias.
  • “The institution are not used to be driven by the retail market…now the market is moving ahead of them.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [20:55]

• Retail Leading the Way:

  • Crypto reverses the traditional investment order: retail gets in first, with institutions scrambling to avoid missing out (echoing the GameStop saga).
  • Technology platforms like Robinhood democratize capital markets access.

7. Macro vs. Micro Crypto Market Trends (22:12 – 26:12)

• Two Conflicting Narratives:

  • Macro: Global trends (debt, gold, debasement, government spending) remain bullish for Bitcoin.
  • Micro/Technical: Current weakness is due to local factors such as unwinding of treasury-company-related trades and low liquidity.
  • “You need not to confuse is the journey broken or is the narrative broken with kind of the technicality of the moment.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [24:50]

• Zooming Out Matters:

  • “Anybody who bought bitcoin for more than four years never lost money.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [25:35]

8. Future of Altcoins & CoinShares’ Perspective (26:12 – 28:35)

• Altcoin Utility & Measurement:

  • While Bitcoin is a valid endpoint, real innovation now lies in usable, utility-driven altcoin projects.
  • “If you want to really blow your mind, you have to get into the altcoin narrative…At the end of the day, altcoin need to be measured at the light of the benchmark which need to be Bitcoin.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [26:36]

• CoinShares’ Altcoin Activity:

  • First to list many tokens in Europe (e.g., Ethereum).
  • Offers staking, which is more tax-advantaged in Europe.
  • Research actively tracks emerging projects like Hyperliquid.

• TradFi Meets DeFi:

  • Traditional assets increasingly move into DeFi, with tokenization becoming the “back and middle office of financial servicing.” [28:25]

9. Managing Emotions in Crypto Investment (28:35 – 29:52)

• Personal Coping Tactics:

  • “Just don’t have emotion…just don’t fall in love with your position. Stay honest around what you’re doing and the rest will take care of himself.”
    — Jean Marie Mognetti [29:17, 29:23]

• Practicality Over Perfection:

  • Success comes from adapting decisions quickly and not sticking stubbornly to opinions or positions.

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “We stumbled upon Bitcoin almost by mistake…you follow Alice in the rabbit hole and never kind of get out of it.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [01:10]

• “It's almost like the failure of the private blockchain is what makes it much more powerful in an open architecture, but you have to go through the failure first.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [04:39]

• “It is confusing for investors. It is confusing for advisors…You move to Ethereum, they already look at you saying what are you talking about?”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [13:55]

• “Not all treasury company are born equally. They are very, very different shape, different size.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [16:45]

• “The institution are not used to be driven by the retail market…now the market is moving ahead of them.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [20:55]

• “Anybody who bought bitcoin for more than four years never lost money.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [25:35]

• “If you want to really blow your mind, you have to get into the altcoin narrative…altcoin need to be measured…against…Bitcoin.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [26:36]

• “Just don’t have emotion…Stay honest around what you’re doing and the rest will take care of himself.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [29:17, 29:23]

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Jean Marie’s crypto journey & CoinShares founding: [01:10]
• Role of tech vs. investment thesis in blockchain: [02:54 – 04:08]
• Public vs. private blockchain transition: [04:39 – 06:31]
• CoinShares’ product offerings: [11:38 – 13:15]
• ETF explosion & market confusion: [13:55]
• DIME product and CoinShares’ diversification approach: [15:45]
• Digital asset treasury companies, sustainability & Michael Saylor: [16:45 – 19:00]
• Institutional crypto adoption and retail’s lead: [19:16 – 22:12]
• Macro vs. micro market forces: [22:51 – 26:12]
• Future of altcoins and utility in DeFi: [26:36 – 28:35]
• Emotion & psychology in crypto investing: [29:17 – 29:52]

How to Follow Jean Marie Mognetti & CoinShares

• Website: coinshares.com
• Newsletter: Weekly and monthly updates published on CoinShares.com
• Twitter/X: @coinsharesco
• “We publish a weekly newsletter. I write a monthly piece for Coinshare.com which is part of the newsletter and on X as well.”
  — Jean Marie Mognetti [30:02]

Tone and Takeaways

The conversation balances deep technical and investment insights with a practical, often wry take on market trends. Jean Marie Mognetti emphasizes adaptability, honest self-assessment in investing, and a focus on long-term value over chasing short-term noise. The episode is essential listening for those seeking to understand how institutions are fighting to catch up with sharp, fast-moving retail markets—and where the “long game” of Bitcoin and digital assets is unfolding.