B (5:09)

No, that's awesome. So out of the ashes of FTX of Phoenix Rose. Man, talk about, I mean that I remember, you know, Obviously, you know, podcasting and trading through that period. And I thought I was having a bad time, but I can't imagine kind of what was going through, through your mind. What were some of like, you know, the lessons that you learned from, from that whole experience?

D (5:31)

You know, I learned, I learned a ton of lessons. I mean, I would say that, you know, I learned a lot about regulatory, you know, how kind of ugly the regulatory game can be if you're on the wrong side of it, I guess, is one way I would, I would say it a lot about risk management, market structure and, and the, the value of having, you know, a really strong balance sheet in, in times of volatility in, in financial markets. That's kind of on the negative side. On the positive side, I think there were a lot of things that we did really, really well at BlockFi that I've, that I've brought to Galaxy and the Galaxy One platform. We were, I think, really good at launching products that were differentiated, that were, in a lot of cases, first of their kind. And there's not a lot of opportunities to do that in financial services. And, and when you can do it, you generally get a first mover advantage that's, you know, helpful in igniting growth. We prioritized client service at BlockFi. I think we were one of the first, if not the first crypto companies, crypto financial services companies to have a, a phone number that people could call. And so I've carried that with me to Galaxy One as well, where we've got, you know, great folks based in the US who are super familiar with both crypto and traditional, you know, financial markets and products who are available to talk to clients or folks that are interested in the platform. And then there's all kinds of smaller things, but those are the big ones that I would highlight.

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C (10:07)

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned it didn't feel great to be on the receiving end of a lot of those targeted regulatory attacks. And you know, a lot of this happened under Gensler and it felt again, just targeted and biased and intentional. And recently we've gotten a lot of news that like, it's flipped right with Paul Atkins and a huge regulatory shift. And we always hear about all the changes that have made and how it's more crypto friendly. I'm curious, you know, have you felt the effects of that and have you felt the actual shift? Because you're the one who's dealing with this. You dealt under the, you know, the previous situation, you're under the now the news administration. Do you feel like there is a difference? Because again, we hear about this all the time, but do you actually like see a difference is what I'm asking.

D (10:55)

I think there's absolutely a difference. I mean, we've already had one bill passed through the legislature with the Genius Act. We think there's going to be, you know, a market structure bill getting passed soon which will clarify, you know, which of the financial regulators regulate certain things. We've seen multiple companies recently get, get approved for the OCC banking charter, which is not something that was ever even thought to be on table during the previous administration. You've seen pretty much every enforcement inquiry or action against crypto companies get taken off the table, you know, at the sec. So you absolutely feel it. And, and I think it creates a, a much better culture for capital formation, a much better culture for product innovation. And, and ultimately when my view is that when you enable these things, this is what America is supposed to be great at, and we are great at in a lot of cases. When you enable the market to flourish, that translates into competition, competition translates into. Price competition and people just trying to put their best foot forward to win business from whatever their client segment might be. And ultimately that translates to great outcomes for consumers. So you can, you could feel it, you know, kind of across the board in terms of, you know, even if you're thinking about building something, you can actually have a kind of candid dialogue with the regulators now. Whereas before it didn't feel like anything was candid, it always felt very guarded. And you know, there was this message put out there of come in and talk to us. But if you were actually on the front lines and you tried to do that, you weren't met with a welcoming environment. You were met with kind of blank stares and, you know, fear of Getting an enforcement action a week or two after you left the office and told them what you were thinking about doing.

C (12:59)

And I think that that's important for the listeners to understand. Right. There is truly a great system and structure that's being laid in place. And what I'm gathering from this in our conversation so far is that it truly does have an impact on what the future of crypto looks like and what you're allowed to do and who you're allowed to speak with and all of this stuff. It seems to be an environment, a much better environment that promotes growth. And I think that that is arguably one of the most important things, because, listen, price is going to fluctuate day to day, week to week, month to month, and, you know, we're probably going to talk about that at some point during this podcast. We feel price action, and sometimes we. We focus too much on it in the short term. But I think what's important here is what you're saying is behind the scenes, there is a really positive environment that is setting what the future of this industry could look like.

B (13:55)

Yeah, And Galaxy certainly, you know, on the. The cutting edge of pretty much every different area of crypto. And so we definitely want to dive in. You know, full disclosure, I have some exposure to some Galaxy shares. Small shareholder, personally and through one of the funds I manage, but so I'm biased. I think you guys are great and you guys are executing at a really high level and doing some incredible work. But we want to hear it from the horse's mouth. We want to know what you guys are up to. Just give us the, you know, the 30, 000 foot view of Galaxy before we kind of dive into your role and what you're specifically building a Galaxy one.

D (14:30)

Yeah, sure thing. So Galaxy historically was providing institutional financial services for the crypto market. So what that means is they built out large businesses in asset management, trading and lending, investment banking and advisory. And then in 2022, the company, via the acquisition of a bitcoin mining firm, expanded also into AI data centers. And they took this, what was historically a bitcoin mining site, repositioned it as an AI data center, and that's now a very large business for Galaxy. And just pausing there, how many individual stocks in the market can you buy that would give you exposure to two of what I think are the most exciting growth categories of the economy, crypto and AI in a single stock. So, I mean, it's exhilarating to be a part of a company that has so much going on in both of these major business lines. You know, some, some quick stats. There's. Galaxy has over 17 billion in assets on its platform. We're coming off a record quarter that saw 500 million plus of net income. Company has a very strong balance sheet, total equity of 3.2 billion, including nearly 2 billion in cash and stables. And on the lending side of their business, which I'm sure we'll touch on as we get into Galaxy One and some of the unique products that we have, they have a principal outstanding in their loan portfolio as of the last earnings report of north of 1.8 billion. One thing I didn't touch on that I think is just important to note is Galaxy is also innovating and a leading provider of infrastructure services to institutional partners. And they do that in a number of ways. They're depending on the day, you know, either the largest or one of the top three largest validators on the Solana blockchain. So they're very active in staking, they're very active in tokenization. And you've seen them partner on things with traditional financial services firms ranging from ETFs to, you know, crypto custody and other things. So Mike Novogratz, the CEO of the firm, has been saying since 2017, When I first met him, that institutions are coming to the asset class. They're increasingly here now and looking for ways to leverage the technology, build products and services around that. And Galaxy is one of the key partners in the ecosystem to them in that pursuit.

B (17:07)

Yeah, no, it's an incredible feat of what you guys are tackling and arguably one of the most exciting aspects, although we don't want to diminish any of the other aspects. But I think one of the most exciting aspects, especially for our audience, who's mainly a retail trader focused audience, is Galaxy 1. And so let's kind of just unpack what's going on with, with Galaxy One and how people could get involved as well.

D (17:34)

Yeah, sure. So the original idea for Galaxy One was to bring the institutional quality that Galaxy is known for to the individual investor. And so we launched the Galaxy One app in October. It currently has four products, a checking account that offers a 3.5% yield, our premium yield product where you can earn 8% on cash by participating as a lender into the institutional lending market that Galaxy is very active in. We have a brokerage account where you can buy and sell stocks commission free, and then of course a crypto account where you can buy, sell and transfer Bitcoin, Ethereum and Solana currently. And so the Idea that we were really going after here is can we deliver a more institutional quality experience across not just crypto, but also traditional financial services, banking and brokerage to, you know, US based tech forward Crypto. Interested kind of mass affluent investors that are looking for both an all in one platform to manage their finances and innovative ways to grow their wealth that they can't do on other platforms. So you know, one example of that is the premium yield product where you can get 8% on cash. You know, one note on that is that you do have to be an accredited investor to participate in it. But, but for both that premium yield product and the checking account, you can auto reinvest the interest that you're earning into Bitcoin or another crypto of your choice. And soon you'll be able to auto invest in equities. So you'll be seeing more products and services from us over time. But that's what we have today. That's what we're starting with.

B (19:25)

That's incredible. And I think either you or somebody at the company said yield is one of the big unlocks in crypto. And I'm curious about, you know, the yield. Where is it coming from, how is it generated? There's a lot of different ways. You know, whether it's lending or doing, you know, treasury bills or cash and carry, you know, what is kind of the, the mechanisms underpinning some of the yield products.

D (19:51)

Yes, sure. So our checking account is the yield is just powered completely by a bank. When you open a checking account at Galaxy One, you're getting a direct account with Cross river bank, who's our banking partner. But we're facilitating your, your access to that bank account. So you have FDIC insurance just like you would with other checking accounts. The premium yield product where accredited investors can earn 8% on their cash, the yield for that is generated from Galaxy's institutional lending business. So we're, you know, aggregating individual investors and giving them the ability to participate as a lender into Galaxy's institutional lending activities. Now it's important to note that the structure of that product has a guarantee on it from Galaxy. So while the activity that's happening is lending activity and the fact that crypto debt markets don't have the same access to financing that traditional markets do is the reason why we're able to offer 8% from a risk perspective, it's really Galaxy corporate credit risk. And so irrespective of what happens to the lending book, Galaxy has a guarantee on this product. And so functionally it's kind of like corporate debt from a risk perspective. And important to note there too, just in terms of how the product functions, it has a 60 day duration. So from when you contribute to the vehicle or from when you say you want to get your funds out of the vehicle, it's 60 days until they're made available to you. And also it has a $250 million cap on the total size of the vehicle, which is really important from a risk management perspective. And so at a certain point, I don't know exactly when, potentially in the not too distant future. We haven't disclosed how much has come into the product yet, but at a certain point that the cap will probably be reached and availability will be to this product will probably become somewhat restricted.

C (22:00)

Yeah. You know, one of the things I remember in previous years, really just the last cycle was in 2021, there was this rush to see who could offer the highest yields. And it kept growing and growing. We started at pretty normal rates, a couple percent, then 4, then 5, then 10, then 20. And then you saw places offering like 30, 50%. And it kept growing until it reached a point where it became unsustainable. And I think that was a big factor in that previous crash that we had. My question here is, you know, how is this time different or how is this different and how do we protect from it happening again? Because we've had a lot of people come across us in our community and they got burned by that. And I think that they're a little bit scared. And, you know, it's important to help them understand, you know, what the difference is so that they can know that this can or hopefully won't happen again.

D (22:55)

Yeah, absolutely. Well, one thing I would highlight is it's not just crypto where this stuff happens. I don't know if y' all followed like some of these yield max ETFs that have come out recently. You know, it's, it's very important to understand what you're investing in, especially when you're talking about fixed income or credit or yield. So I can't speak to everything that's happening in the industry with regards to yield, but in terms of how the 8% premium yield product at Galaxy One is different, I would highlight a few key things. So one is that we're only paying the yield on cash. And at least in my experience at BlockFi, one of the challenges we had was that generating a yield on assets like Bitcoin, there's kind of a fundamental imbalance in that market where there's A lot of supply of Bitcoin that wants to earn a yield, but not a lot of safe places to generate a yield on bitcoin. And so you're constantly kind of pushed out of whack there in terms of how much you need to get a yield on and how many options there are in terms of places to get that yield. Cash doesn't have that problem at all. Right. Like obviously there's very, very large lending markets for cash, including stuff that is risk free, like treasury bills. The second is that Galaxy has put a cap on the product of 250 million. We did that basically at the time that we created the product as a function of the lending book size. And so you're seeing, at least in the case of our platform, responsible sizing constraints being put on the product. You're seeing a duration constraint being put on the product as well, which wasn't true at least at BlockFi and at another of the few of the larger lending platforms where those were overnight deposits, which really exposes you to a run on the bank type risk scenario where all the capital wants to leave at once, which creates its own kind of challenges. And then the last thing I would say is that the issuer of this product, Galaxy Digital, publicly traded company, audited financials in the United States, in the United States, put a guarantee on it. You can go and look at the balance sheet of Galaxy I highlighted earlier, north of $3 billion in liquid assets. But it's just kind of night and day, I think, from what was happening back then. And I think it's really clear in how we structured the product that mm, we're keeping those learnings and risk factors in, in in mind.

B (25:34)

Yeah, totally. No, it's, it's not, you know, some offshore, you know, private, obscure, you know, subsidiary, you know, it's just, you know, it's, it's pretty vanilla now but back in, you know, 2021 and 2022, I mean there was really like hardly any publicly traded US crypto related companies. I think Coinbase went public April of 2021. And so it's like now we've just got the mature infrastructure and so it's great to see y' all really capitalizing on that and offering great products and services and, you know, truly innovating.

D (26:10)

Another thing I would note, this is officially a securities offering, the premium yield product. It's a Reg. D506C securities offering. That's why participation is limited to accredited investors. There's an entire PPM and risk disclosures document that everyone should read before, you know, making an allocation to the product. So the regulatory structure is different as well. I left that off the list.

B (26:33)

No, that's super important for people understand. But look, you know, we're starting, you know, I would say we're in a post rate hike United States. I know the bank of Japan is planning on hiking rates now or something but you know in the United States we're pretty firmly in rate cutting territory. And I was just wondering like how much do y' all think about like the traditional, you know, government yields coming to bear on your business?

D (27:02)

We, I mean we think about it, I would say quite a bit. You know, notably since launching the premium yield product, there's been two rate cuts and we haven't adjusted the rate on the premium yield product yet. It's, it's stated 8% but we're certainly keeping the, the broader rate market in mind. That being said, what you know, we're trying to make sure that our checking account yield is, is competitive with other options out there. You know, I, I think it's one of the highest you can get, if not the highest when compared against other fintech platforms. I think it's certainly the highest that lets you auto reinvest in bitcoin. And then the premium yield product, we're really, you know, measuring that against crypto debt, capital markets and where we see the cost of borrowing cash in those markets plus a little bit of, for lack of a better term, call it like new customer experience. We want this to be a valuable product offering for people. And so those are the things we're keeping in mind in terms of the premium yield rate which I should note is subject to change with 30 day notice. But we haven't changed it since we launched earlier this year.

E (28:19)

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B (28:48)

Yeah, makes a ton of sense. You know, I, I see. I don't know if you would call them competitors directly or if they're going to start morphing into competitors, but you know, big banks like you know, JP Morgan Chase, bank of America and all of these folks are starting to get a little bit more comfortable with crypto. I don't know if they're going to get anywhere near as evolved as what Galaxy One is with their offerings and stuff. But do you view this as coopetition or competition with these big banks?

D (29:21)

I would say both. I mean, when you're in financial services for consumers in the US you have a lot of competitors in general. You've got banks, fintechs, brokerages, you know, defi. There's, there's a lot of competition out there and sometimes you're partnered with somebody for a certain initiative and you're competing with them on another, another initiative. And I think we could see banks fall into that category specifically with Galaxy a fair bit.

B (29:55)

Yeah, no, I, I think you're, you're spot on. I think it's probably good, right, like in a sense because they're going to be broadening the market. They're going to be getting folks like our parents, you know, more comfort once they see, oh, you know, JP Morgan Chase, you know, they just launched an on chain fund, you know, and BlackRock, infidelity, you know, all these guys are starting to launch funds. And, you know, that kind of leads into my next question about the ETFs. I think the ETFs have done a lot to legitimize crypto. I know Galaxy is also involved with some ETFs. Maybe you could give us a little color on, on, on Galaxy's sort of relationship with the ETFs. But how do you kind of think that some of these flows into the ETFs or just the ETFs in general might influence Galaxy One?

D (30:46)

Well, it's interesting to see. I mean, so we, you know, we enable folks to buy and sell all listed ETFs on our platform in the brokerage account, commission free. Galaxy also has a suite of ETFs that it has brought to market with State Street. So, you know, Galaxy has spot Bitcoin ETFs and other ETF products that are out there. I think that, you know, it's so weird that it didn't necessarily happen this year if you're just looking at the annual performance. But I think it's been clear that the ETF's launching is an incredible new distribution channel for people being able to own crypto. I think on a, on a long enough time horizon, we'll say this was definitively a good thing. Maybe the counterpoint is that there's more paper bitcoin I'm using air quotes intentionally here. And there's more abilities to, you know, hedge or, or kind of, you know, bracket your exposure to the asset, which may be acts as a volatility dampener over time. But mid to long term I think that more folks will own crypto and ETFs. It will increasingly become, you know, crypto ETFs will increasingly become parts of other actively managed or passively managed portfolios in ETF or other constructs. And ultimately more capital will be allocated to the space as a result of, of that ETF product construct being, you know, out there. And that will be a good thing for the price over a long enough time horizon. So I, you know, I think it's, I think it's great. I think it's a, you know, big net positive for the asset class.

C (32:34)

Yeah. And one of the other, I think one of the biggest shifts that we've seen in the last year is how much Ethereum has begun to be used on the institutional side in terms of infrastructure. And we're seeing it in Solana as well. But I would argue that we're seeing considerably more on Ethereum from the institutional side. You look at banks and asset managers and more like traditional financial entities and there are dead set on building. I mean we just saw the news about JP Morgan this week and then right afterwards bank of America came out and we're like, we're in agreement. We think that things are going to kind of head in that direction where I think where stuff's building on chain and then you have Citi and BlackRock and all these other. And J, you know, everyone else talking about this already, I mean, what do you think or what do you see in terms of infrastructure? Because you know, Galaxy, you guys either, you know, work with some of these players or you talk to them in your communication and you kind of get a back end view into what's going on. I mean what, what is the deal with all this? Because from, from our perspective again I think we get a little bit more of an or of a retail side between us and it looks convincing. And you know what we see here, regardless of price action, which has been heading down as of recently, it almost feels, dare I say, dare I say. Okay, so I'm going to preface this dare. It seems impossible for Ethereum to not be a part of the future when you have all the biggest banks and asset managers who want to build and want to bet on it. So yeah, I mean, I guess what are you seeing in regards to Ethereum and it being used as infrastructure behind the scenes.

D (34:07)

I mean, I tend to agree with your general categorization, Brendan, that a lot is happening. I think at a high level there's kind of three areas and we're seeing a lot of activity across all of them. So one is banks and traditional financial firms needing to connect to crypto infrastructure in order to facilitate offering crypto to clients on their platform. In some cases they're doing that through partners, in other cases they're building directly. So facilitating crypto is one, real world asset tokenization is another. So, you know, there was a press release just in the last week or so that, you know, JP Morgan was the book runner on a tokenized debt offering from, you know, yours truly, Galaxy Digital. Yeah, that was kind of a proof of concept that you can do these things this way. So there's real world asset tokenization. Obviously stablecoins is a huge like runaway winner in that category already. But I think we'll see other things come into that space, whether it's equities or other types of assets, get tokenized and trade on crypto rails. And then the last kind of category is replacing traditional infrastructure, whether it's for money movement or securities settlement or other things with blockchain technology. And I think if you measure each one of those things today, facilitating crypto real world asset tokenization and replacing old infrastructure. And you said we. Which blockchain is being most used across these different categories? It would be Ethereum. Now Solana folks I think would obviously make the case that they might have some advantages in particular with speed and trading type use cases. But you can't argue with the stats that to date the adoption has really been led by Ethereum.

B (36:04)

Yeah, and it seems like, you know, Ethereum has really, I mean, they had some downtime back in, you know, when there was the Ethereum fork, you know, when it turned into Ethereum Classic. But by and large, you know, kind of what Tom Lee says, you know, the, the folks that are pioneering, you know, from the big bank side, the big asset manager side, they're not really looking for like transaction speed yet. They're just looking for security and you know, figuring that we could build out speed over the long term with some architectural enhancements and so on. So I'm, yeah, I'm obviously a big, big personal fan and have long exposure to Ethereum. But also, Solana, you know, I, I want to see everybody win. Maybe that's naive and optimistic, but I think there's a world in which we could have maybe some Interoperability and just, you know, broad success for, for both chains. But you know, a lot of folks come to the Crypto 101 podcast obviously to listen to experts like yourself about what they're building and kind of getting on the, the vanguard of like what's next. But I, I want to kind of, maybe we could have a little bit of a retrospective since we are here at the end of the year on I don't know if I could call it what went wrong this year. But you know, why, why was this year kind of, you know, of the, the 15 or 16 year history of Bitcoin, why did the four year cycle sort of break down right every year after the having we typically get this really nice run? Was it because now that was consensus and everybody was like, oh well of course it's going to keep running, I'll sell later. And you know, somebody shorted the market. From your vantage point like why is the four year cycle dead or what, what happened this year to cause bitcoin to have negative returns?

D (37:46)

Yeah, I mean look, Mike Novogratz is a, is a much better market prognosticator than I am. I'm, I'm generally, I consider myself a, a bitcoin most of the list and someone who kind of like sets a, a, you know, diversified portfolio and let's lets time do its thing. So one thing I would tell you is that my confidence in, you know, bitcoin, Ethereum, Solana over the long term, you know, hasn't, hasn't been shaken at all by the, the disappointing performance relative to other assets for this year. One thing that I would tell you as someone who has operated in the crypto industry for a while is that very frequently bitcoin does the opposite thing of what you think it's going to do price wise. It really rides these kind of emotional or sentiment based indicators harder than other assets do, for better or worse. And so if I had to pinpoint a couple things, I would say one, the fact that the ETFs launched and created an opportunity maybe for some long term, very large size holders to access a kind of different quantum of liquidity than they were able to before. And then two, the fact that everyone expected us to have a four year cycle and the game is a little bit different now because of the ETFs and I don't know that you really need more reasons than that. But what I do think will happen is when you least expect it, it's going to melt our faces to the upside again.

B (39:31)

100% no I've been reading some market commentary from a few different operators and they've kind of coalesced around this idea as well of large bitcoin whales. Not only some of them liquidating and just selling spot, but selling call options against their bitcoin, which could, you know, dampen some of the volatility. And then you've got folks like microstrategy which are kind of dampening the volatility of crypto and all that kind of stuff as well. So feels like there's just almost a coming of age for crypto. It's like, hey, if you want to be in the big leagues, you're going to have to absorb a lot of, you know, derivatives. You're going to have to absorb a lot of, you know, different market participants and that, you know, sometimes it, it goes up, sometimes it goes down, but over the long term, you know, that, that trend, I think, like you said, you know, it's going to come when people least expect it, like a thief in the night and it's going to melt faces off. You just got to stay in. Like there was this one study I read it was from like, you know, I think it was from Fund strat, but like 10, like most of the returns in bitcoin happen in like 10 trading days. And if you're not in within those 10 trading days, you know, say you're trying to buy and sell and go in and out, then you miss like all the returns and like you have negative returns like year over year. And so it's like you got to stay in because that volatility is really hard to, to time.

D (40:57)

Totally. At the end of the day, my, my bullish thesis for, for bitcoin hasn't changed from when I first invested in it, which is, it's a, it's a fraction of the market cap of gold and young people. It has demographics in its favor, meaning the age of bitcoin ownership skews younger. There's going to increasingly be, you're going to hear more and more over the next five, ten years about this great wealth transfer that's happening. And as that wealth transfer happens, I think allocations to bitcoin and crypto writ large increase. And yeah, I, you know, I'm not changing anything.

B (41:43)

Love it. Well, I'm not sure how much you'll be able to share with us just by the nature of, you know, you being part of a public company and you know, providing just an outlook basically for the product and, you know, what's on the roadmap, what can we expect both in terms of maybe products and offerings and also yield like you know what, what is 2026 got in store for any of our listeners who might go sign up? And then we'll also ask you to, to give us a link so we could put it in the show notes.

D (42:13)

Yeah, sure thing. So we've already talked a bit about how early next year we're going to be adding support for entities to onboard to Galaxy One. So beautiful. Whether that's like an entity that you use for personal wealth management purposes like an LLC or a trust, something like that, or if you have a small business or a crypto business and you want a place to in a unified way manage the treasury for your business. So we'll be adding support for that, we'll be adding support for staking, we'll be launching what I think will be the best kind of CEFI crypto backed lending product in the market. And then a couple things which I'm not able to say quite as much about yet in the asset management and lending category more broadly that, that I think will be first movers on. So we're, we're in the early days of Galaxy One. I think we already have a compelling value proposition and I encourage folks to check us out, get in touch with our support team. You know, send me a DM on Twitter, my DMs are open on Twitter and I'm happy to hear from folks. But also, you know, if now's not the time, stay tuned because we have some, some really exciting stuff, stuff coming down the pipeline.

B (43:25)

Amazing. Well, look Zach, we greatly appreciate your time joining us today on the Crypto 101 podcast. We really do hope that you join us sometime, you know, next year maybe Q1 or Q2 and you could give us some updates as these new products start rolling out. But until then, we wish you a very happy holiday. However you're celebrating, we hope you come back with a lot of fervor and excitement for tackling the new year. So thanks for joining us and everybody at home watching. Thanks for joining.

D (44:05)

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