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- [00:00]
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- [01:17]
Host - Season Recap and Introduction
Hey guys, it's me again. I'm back with another bonus episode focusing on season two of Culpable, the story of 22 year old Brittany Stykes. It was an honor to share Brittney's story and in working on it I developed a close connection with her parents, Dave and Mary. But as I was reflecting on that time, I realized I never got that same opportunity with her younger sister, Emily. At the time, she was pretty reserved when it came to the topic of Brittany and was even hesitant to speak with us. However, I noticed recently while looking over the justice for Britney Page that Emily has become much more outspoken in her advocacy these days. So I figured why not see if she'd be willing to chat and share some updates on her sister's case. And I'm happy to say there was no hesitancy this time around. She was eager to sit down and talk. So today I'll be sharing that conversation with you. I hope you enjoy listening and make sure you stick around to the end for an important announcement regarding season three of Culpable. And with that, let's hear from Emily.
- [02:21]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
So first off, how have you all been? How's the family doing? How you doing? What's new in your all's lives?
- [02:27]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
We're all doing pretty good for, you know, circumstances being got a couple new nieces and nephews and growing the family, but we're doing pretty good.
- [02:37]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
That's exciting. You have two?
- [02:40]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Yes, I have two little redheaded boys. They are six and three.
- [02:46]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Awesome. How's your parents been?
- [02:48]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
They're doing pretty good. They're both retired and loving the grandkids. I told them this morning. I was like, I have to do this interview. I was like. And I know the boys aren't gonna be quiet through it. And she's like, I'll just bring them over here. I'll watch them. So that's why I was a couple minutes late. Cause I had to take them over to her house.
- [03:05]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
That's a smart idea, though. It always helps.
- [03:08]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
I'm probably driving my parents nuts. I bought the house right beside them. Oh, beside him.
- [03:13]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Did you really? That's awesome.
- [03:15]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Yep.
- [03:16]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Oh, my gosh. Those that recently?
- [03:19]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Yeah, My grandma passed away, and.
- [03:21]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Oh, I'm sorry to hear.
- [03:22]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
She left the house to my dad. And he was like, well, I'm gonna sell this house. And I was like, nope, you're gonna sell this house to me. Grandma's house right next door.
- [03:31]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, I'm familiar. I think the first time we visited them, he walked her over there late at night, so I actually got to meet her. Well, that's really cool. Well, I'm glad to hear everybody's doing good, all things considered. So, like I said the other day, I listened back through episode one, and one of the things that your dad talked about was how the trauma of this kind of affected all of you, of course. But, you know, especially you kids. I've lost loved ones. I know that feeling. But I don't know what it's like to lose a sister, and especially at such a young age. So I can't imagine how difficult that was and probably still is for you. And so, yeah, like, he. You know, he talked about that some and talked about how you all put a wall up and these types of things. And it was really hard to. To talk about it. This wall that he spoke of, do you feel like that's kind of come down for you now, or where are you at with that?
- [04:31]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
With me, I'm more of in a state of anger now. I'm angry and disappointed in how her case has been handled. Every day is different. People tell you that with grief, that it gets better over time, and it really doesn't. There's some days that, like, I'm perfectly fine, and I don't even think about it. And then there's other days where the littlest inconvenience makes me think of her, and I just lose it. So the wall has came down a little bit. I talk more about my sister, and I try to advocate for her more than what I did before in the past. But the grief and the hurt is still there.
- [05:14]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah. Like I said, I can't even imagine that Said, though you did end up speaking with us that day, which was. I know that wasn't an easy decision for you.
- [05:24]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
I think that's the only interview I've ever done, is with you guys to this day. To this day.
- [05:31]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Oh, wow. Okay. Well, then I appreciate it even more. It definitely, like I said, it wasn't something we were expecting. And if I remember correctly, we were out there talking with your parents, and you and Tanner had set out there, and I think we asked one of your parents about talking with you all, you know, and they're like, I don't know, maybe. You know, and I think maybe even one of them turned to you, and you're like, no, thanks. But eventually you came around to it and talked with us, and, yeah, I was really appreciative of that and just felt it was really raw because you could, you know, in some ways, I think, tell that you've kept a lot of this in. And it's. In a lot of ways, felt and probably still feels very fresh to you.
- [06:13]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
It does. It feels still very fresh. Like, some days it feels like I just talked to her yesterday, and other days it feels like I haven't seen her in a lifetime. But. But I'm a lot more open and voiceful about the whole situation now.
- [06:28]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
So how do you feel? Like you've kind of overcome that. You kind of mentioned that earlier. I mean, do you chalk some of that up to just where you're at emotionally with it and feeling kind of angry and therefore invigorated in some ways? Like, what kind of has helped you to break down that wall? Or maybe a better way of putting it is you were so hesitant to speak then, though. You did it, but you didn't hesitate when I asked you about doing this. You know, so, like, something's clearly changed there.
- [06:54]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
As I've gotten older, I guess matured a lot. But I try to be there for my parents and, you know, listen to them and hear them talk about it, and I. I feed off of their energy a lot. I can feel how upset they are. And, you know, that I'm not the only one that's hurt by all of this. And a lot of it is through that because I. I know that with grief, a lot of families place blame with each other. And like a lot of parents, when they lose a kid, they actually end up divorced. The divorce rate after losing a child is very high. My parents never even gave that a thought. They were like, we both love Britney. She was both of our daughters. It's neither one of our faults. They never place blame with each other. They tried their best to be there for us and show us that they still loved us and supported us even though they weren't whole anymore. So as I got older, I just felt responsibility to give back to them. And then the more we dealt with Brittany's cases and the empty promises and the, oh, well, this is going on and it's going to be great. We're going to get this solved this year. And then as soon as the news cruise goes away after a time that chips away at you. And I just got angry and I seen that my parents were kind of starting to deflect and they were like, well, we don't know if we should do the memorials anymore or maybe everybody's just forgot. And I kind of took it upon myself to show them, like, hey, we're not going to let this go away. We're not going to stop advocating for her. And that's kind of when I stepped in and felt that it was part of my job, you know, I loved her, too.
- [08:35]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, no, well said. Let's actually talk about that. The memorial you hold each year, can you go into that a little bit more? You know, why is that so important to maintain that? I remember having a kind of off the cuff conversation with Mary when we were at the house. She talked about that. She talked about how she's kind of struggling because at what point do you kind of stop doing that? And talked about how it's hard because some years you'll have this huge turnout and all this attention. Other years it's not so much. So there's this kind of ebb and flow to it. Why do you feel it's important to continue that? Why have you continued to. And more specifically, how was this past one that just happened? How was the turnout? Tell us about that.
- [09:20]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
It rains every time. Every time we hold a memorial, it rains. I don't know what it is, but it rains. So there was quite a few people that came out this past time and we had a lot of online followers watched online through the Facebook page. But the whole reason we continue to do it is to kind of show the community and definitely the sheriff's department that we're not going away and we're not going to let it be some case number and file that sits on a shelf for 50 years. We want to show them that we're still advocating. And we're still here for her. We're still seeking answers and justice. We don't want anyone to forget.
- [10:01]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, well, just to say, like, you know, I've been out to, I guess, a couple now, and it was neat to experience that. And another thing that we got to experience when we were there recording was afterwards, of course, you know, you all held a celebration for your father. The way it was put to us was that was the first time that you all ever really done that, like, celebrated your dad's birthday. Of course, I think most people know this, but for anybody not in tune with that, Brittany was murdered on your dad's birthday, which I can't even imagine how complicated that is. But, you know, you all did celebrate that year, and we actually came back after the memorial and stuck around for some of that and got to meet some people and whatnot. Has a corner sort of been turned there? Have you all celebrated his birthday since then or, you know, have you all kind of continued to stray away from doing that?
- [10:55]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
No, since then, we've continued to do it, especially with the grandkids. They make his birthday a big deal. We usually go over and we'll make him a cake or cupcakes or, you know, whatever that day, and we'll spend the day with him. And then usually after the memorial, we'll order pizza and we'll all just kind of come and hang out with him and showing that he's still important to all of us. That even though she died on his birthday, it doesn't mean that he's not worth celebrating.
- [11:20]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Absolutely. It's a very unique and tragic scenario that happened on that day. I can totally understand how he would struggle to want to do that, but I'm thankful that you all have continued that. On that note, actually, another question I had for you was this one's a little more case related, I guess you could say. But where do you stand on that conundrum that it happened on your dad's birthday? I mean, have you always felt one way or another on that as far as it's just a crazy coincidence or if that was something intentional?
- [11:52]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
I think it was intentional.
- [11:54]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Can you expand on that at all?
- [11:56]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
So the reason why I say that is my sister, she never really did anything by herself. She always had somebody with her. Me, Tanner, her stepkids, my mom and dad. Somebody was always with her. Everybody had already knew her plans that day, what she was doing. You know, she was going to do this job interview and then leaving from there to go to my dad's. To celebrate his birthday. Like, this had been in the works for a couple weeks, and she'd actually asked me to go with her that day. And my mom was like, oh, school just started. She can't really afford to miss school, so. So I didn't end up going. And then Brittany called her friend and was like, hey, you know, I really don't want to go by myself. Can you go? And she had some reason she couldn't go. And it ended up, you know, just Brittany and Aubrey going. And that was a. That was a rare thing. But Brittany told all of us, like, oh, it's not a big deal. It's an hour, two hours, and then I'll be at Dad's. So the plan was already there, and everyone knew where she was at and what she was going to be doing. So I don't think that it was just some accidental incident that had happened that day.
- [13:05]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, I'm tracking with you on that same topic. It's not like it was, you know, the only coincidence in all of it. And that was something that I was really, I guess you could say, intrigued by. And first learning about it was, you know, that being one thing, but that just made me remember. Even the coincidence, like the call it road rage incident she got into earlier in that day, like, the chances that something like that would happen and then be killed while driving on the road later in the day is just crazy. You sit there and go back and forth, like, is that tied into it somehow? Is that a coincidence? Is that intentional? And, you know, did the same thing with the birthday.
- [13:43]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
The road rage thing never made sense to me because usually when someone has road rage and you have that kind of experience, if something's going to happen, it happens right after the fact. So that part never really made sense with me.
- [13:57]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
That's a good point. You'd have to really hold onto that for a long time. Like, nothing came along in your next 12 hours that could kind of make you forget about it.
- [14:05]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Yeah. And then you would have to have the ability and the skill to track this random stranger where they went and figure out where they're going to be. So it never really made sense to me. There was never really a connection with that for me.
- [14:20]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, that makes sense. Kind of shifting gears some here. I think the way that you all have responded to this, from remaining as close as you all are to continuing the memorials and, you know, now doing Dave's birthday and stuff, I think is very, you know, inspiring. At least it has been to me. And I'm sure it is to others. Have you all, like, on the heels of the podcast, have you ever had people reach out who listened, who took something from it, or what has the response been, if any? You know, we see a lot of that, but I was curious if you all have seen any of that.
- [14:53]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Oh, yeah, definitely. The podcast has brought a lot of people. We've had several people that had family members murdered. We had one girl reach out to us, and her sister was killed the same way her sister dealt with domestic violence and that kind of stuff. And she was like, I understand what you're going through. She was like, if you ever need to talk about anything, she was like, I will listen. And she's like, and I'm not going to judge because I understand everything. It was nice to see that there's other people that understand and have been in the same position that we are and, you know, are willing to follow along and lend advice and just advocate for Brittany as well, because they understand how it works and just how we all feel. And they were all so nice and so willing to talk with us and help. And most of them reached out, were like, what can we do? They were like, can we donate money for her reward? Is there anything we can do? And it was just nice to know that strangers still in this world have compassion and are willing to step out of their own comfort zone and through their own trauma, help others. And I just think that was an amazing experience that the podcast brought us. After you guys aired the first episode, her Facebook page that I made it shot up crazy. And there were all kinds of people messaging me like, we support you, like, we, we understand. And it was just. It was amazing to know that even though these people didn't know Brittany just from you guys talking with us and sharing her story, that they cared enough to show support and wanted to advocate for her justice.
- [16:43]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
It is amazing. I've thought about this before, too. I mean, these stories really do. Like, they obviously expose the bad in the world, or at least in some people, but it also exposes a lot of good. Makes you realize, like, there's still good people out there. There's still caring people who have no connection to this whatsoever. But you wouldn't know any differently because they care.
- [17:13]
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- [17:48]
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Emily (Brittany's Sister)
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- [17:59]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
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- [18:05]
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- [18:48]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
So do you run the justice four page now or do you just kind of all like get on there whenever, like.
- [18:53]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Well actually how it got started was it was the 10 year mark for Brittany's memorial and we were all sitting at my mom and dad's and they were kind of talking like, you know, it's been 10 years, we've still not had answers. And they were kind of getting discouraged with all of it. And Brittany's friend from high school, Taryn, we were sitting there talking and she's like, I feel so bad that your parents are getting discouraged. And she was like, I don't want this. And I was like, well I don't want this either. And we sat there that night and came up with this idea that we were going to make this Facebook page and we were going to prove to mom and dad that people still cared and nobody was forgetting her. Then instantly it started getting followers and people commenting and making posts in there and sharing memories that they had with Brittany. And we took it to my mom and dad and we showed them what we had done and I think it lit a spark in them.
- [19:48]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, that's really cool to hear the backstory there. And you know, obviously I'm sure you all get people Giving their condolences or maybe sharing a memory or whatever. But have you also gotten tips or new leads through that channel?
- [20:01]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Well, when your guys's podcast came out, Karen messaged me and was like, hey, how do you feel if we put on there like a Hips and theories post? She's like, they could just go in there and share it and we could monitor it and try to control it a little bit that way. It wasn't slandering or bashing anybody. And we actually had several people comment on there, like, hey, we know stuff, but we didn't want to get involved. And they would message us and tell us what they knew and we'd turn it in anonymously and the sheriff's department would tell us they would look into it. I'm not sure if they ever did or not, but we did have several people come forward. It was nice to know that even in the community, people that only had like a minor bump with Brittany and they remembered it and they would share it in there and it was great. I think it really helped a lot.
- [20:52]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
I'm really glad to hear that. Has it helped inform you or your theory as to what happened? Better question, because I don't think I've ever asked you this, actually. I mean, what is your working theory?
- [21:04]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
I don't think that my sister was killed at random. I don't think just some random person killed her for no reason. I don't believe that at all. My sister wasn't involved in drugs. My sister didn't really drink all that often. She never really was involved in any of the criminal enterprises, Nothing like that. Like she really was this down to earth person. I know that like a lot of families will be like, oh, they were the perfect person and they try to ignore all the gory details of the things that their kids or siblings did. But Brittany really was like that. I mean, she went to church, she surrounded her whole being with her family, it was her whole existence. She never really did anything or went anywhere by herself. So for me, it's hard to sit here and think that it was just a random horrific act because I know that that was said quite often by a few different people that it had to be something she was involved in. My sister was a stay at home mom who had quit her job to stay home with Aubrey. She was doing her best to get on her own feet and be independent, trying to get a new job, figure out care for Aubrey. She'd ask my mom to start babysitting. So she was doing everything that she could and to Me, just to look at the last three months of her life and the things that she was trying to do, it kind of shows to me that there was something going on in her head. There was some reason why she felt she needed to be independent. And I just. I don't believe that it was just this random act that. No, it's unsolvable. Nobody can figure it out. I don't believe that.
- [22:48]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, I mean, I'm with you on that. It's. It's hard to imagine that it's a random occurrence. It makes no sense for her, specifically with her lifestyle and her character, to be a murder victim, period. Yes. Very innocent people come across somebody at the wrong moment and, you know, maybe an attempted robbery takes place, and then it turns into a shooting. Those types of things happen. But this was, like, the way that this was obviously carried out. It doesn't give off that same vibe. Like, it was just a wrong place, wrong time type of thing. So then you're like, okay, well, then what would the motive be? It's just really hard to make sense of. And I think, for me, I've always found stories like that compelling when you just. You don't really have answers going into it of anything. The why, the how, the who. Nothing.
- [23:37]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Well, and that's my whole thing. Like, you can't. Like you said, when a robbery happens and there's an accidental shooting in it, you know, things escalate and it turns sideways. Usually they're able to figure it out. And you can't tell me that on a busy highway, because it happened on 68, and you could sit up there right now and go park, and it won't be. I'd say you couldn't sit there five, ten minutes without another car passing. But there's no leads. There's no tips, no evidence, Nothing. On a busy highway, nobody's seen anything. To me, it's. It's crazy, because you would think someone would have came forward and said, you know, hey, I drove past and this is the car that I seen, or, you know, this is what I heard. And there was none of that. And it just. It floors me that nobody has came forward and been like, hey, this is what I seen. Nothing.
- [24:34]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
And, like, look, I don't honestly know if that's a coincidence or not. I stood there for memorials. I stood there just to get audio of cars going by. I stood there with Quinn. I spent decent chunks of time on 68 there and just sat there just racking my brain. I mean, you said you can't go like 5 minutes I'm sitting here thinking, like, I don't remember a time that I could go one minute without a car passing by.
- [24:59]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Exactly.
- [25:00]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
It's crazy.
- [25:01]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
And that's the funny thing to me is like we talked to the sheriff's department about it and was like, how is it that this is like the perfect crime and nobody's seen or heard anything at all? And they're like, well, it's probably not that people are just afraid to come forward because of the circumstance. They don't want to put themselves in danger. And I'm like, okay, but you all have tore Britney's life apart. It's not like she was involved with the mob or something.
- [25:28]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Unless they know something we don't.
- [25:30]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
I mean, unless you know something I don't know. And I was with her all the time. So that's what me and mom and dad was talking about. Like, it, it makes no sense.
- [25:40]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
I know. Which makes me question, like why they would think that somebody would be afraid to come forward with that. I mean, that's the thing is like you can submit an anonymous tip to law enforcement about that. I mean, sure, you might have to go answer some follow up questions or whatever, but it's like if you genuinely had nothing to do with it and you know, something I can't fathom, like, you know, I like to try to think there's still good enough people out there in the world that like the average person's going to come forward and say something. Which always made me wonder, like, does nobody, did really nobody see it? Is that possible?
- [26:09]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
And to me, like, $50,000 is a lot of money.
- [26:13]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Heck yeah.
- [26:13]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
And all you have to do is provide a tip that helps them and then lead to an arrest in the investigation.
- [26:18]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [26:19]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
And something simple that you think might not be anything, like you passed a white car or whatever, could be something major that breaks the case. So I don't understand. I wouldn't be able to live with it, I guess.
- [26:31]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, yeah, no, that crushed me throughout the making of it. I didn't necessarily expect somebody to reach out to me with that information, but I did, with each passing day, kind of hope and pray. Like surely something's going to come through the sheriff's office. And to my knowledge it never did unless that was withheld from me, which is possible. But yeah, that's just, I don't, I don't get that. I don't understand how nobody saw it. You know, we kind of talked about theories a little bit. What about just like the various individuals who were named in the podcast, I guess you could say, which you might not be familiar with all those, but what's going on with Shane these days? What's going on with the Brown County Sheriff's office would probably be the main two that come to mind. But I'm probably. I'm probably missing some things there too.
- [27:20]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
As far as Shane goes, I really can't speak on Shane because I really don't talk to him very much. The last kind of interaction I had involving him was the sheriff's department got a hold of me over the Facebook page. He had went down there and his mom had went down there and apparently stirred up some things. They said that they wanted my page taken down. They did not approve of it. They felt that it was a way to condemn them and their family, which I don't know if you follow the Facebook page. We don't ever get on there and bash anybody. We mostly what we share is memories and that kind of stuff. But they were very upset. They told the sheriff's department that they were going to look into getting me for slander and all this other stuff. And the sheriff's department met with my parents and me and was like, you know, we looked over the page and there's nothing on there. You can't control what other people say on social media. And he was like, in my opinion, he was like, I think Emily and Taryn do a really good job to try to regulate those things out when people do get on there, you know, threatening people, bashing and that kind of stuff. And he was like, I don't see anything wrong with the page. I don't see a reason why it needs to be taken down. And I told Shane and his mother that and he wasn't very happy about it, but you have free speech. And he was like, we looked over it. There was nothing criminally motivated on there. And after that, he quit talking to us. He used to get out of the car at drop offs with Aubrey and talk to us and, you know, kind of, hi, how are you, whatever. And he doesn't do that at all. He sits in the car and he looks forward. He doesn't look at us. He doesn't talk to any of us. I mean, we never really. Even after Brittany died, nobody really had a deep connection, but it got even further.
- [29:17]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, that's tough too because, you know, obviously with Aubrey in the picture too.
- [29:22]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
We try to keep our thoughts and like our theories and feelings to ourselves. We don't badmouth anybody to Aubrey. Our whole focus is Aubrey and Aubrey's feelings. So we try our best to kind of shield and protect her from anything to do with Brittany's case or our feelings on it or what we think happened. We really do try our best to stay neutral and just show her that, you know, regardless of what happened, we love you. And if there's anything that Brittany would have wanted, it was her to be happy and safe. So we try our best to protect her innocence and let her be a kid as much as we can.
- [30:00]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, she's getting big and so she's a teenager now.
- [30:05]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Yeah, yeah, she's going to be 13.
- [30:08]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
That's crazy.
- [30:11]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Beautiful girl. She looks a lot like her mom. She has her mom's voiceful, independent attitude. She is very strong willed and I think she definitely gets that from her mother. She reminds me a lot of Britney, but even in that she's still her own personality with her own little quirks and it's just, I just, I love having her around. She. She really is the best kid.
- [30:37]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
I could tell. I mean, not only met her twice pretty briefly, but that was very evident. Listening back to your audio from the podcast, you were talking about how you all did a lot of things together. I think you referenced going to like the zoo together and going fishing and those types of things. Do you still do those types of things either with Aubrey or with your own kids?
- [31:02]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Both, honestly. Every year Aubrey goes with us to the Mopar Nationals, which is the big Dodge car show that we always went to with my mom and dad and Brittany. And we still go down to Shiloh park every summer and go through there and walk the nature trails and pick berries. That's something that we always did with her and we talk about her a lot. And even my kids, you know, my kids weren't born at the time, but we share stories with them and we talk to them about Aunt Brittany and they've got some like little stuffies that were my sisters and we've got on top of our mantle, we've got a memorial thing with like one has Brittany's pictures and one has my grandparents and then the other one has my sister in law, Tracy. And the boys will go in and look at the pictures and talk about them. And we did the same with Aubrey. You know, we talk about her mom. And my parents have saved everything they can. Every news article, every picture, everything. And they've got a tote and they've told Aubrey like, you know, when you're ready or when you're big enough and you think you can handle it, you know, you can go in the room and sit there and look through everything yourself, or we can do it with you. But we've tried our best to keep her memory alive and share those memories with our kids. My kids, they go down and we put flowers on her grave, you know, even. Even though she's gone, I want them to know that she was important.
- [32:32]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, I'd say that's pretty evident in you all. And just the way you speak of her and you know, even still to this day. And it's hard because, like on one end, you want to honor her and keep her memory alive. And I'm sure you all equally or at least to some extent also want to keep her case alive in a lot of ways as far as getting her justice, you know, I'm assuming none of y' all will like, truly rest, or at least that's what you've let on until that happens. And so, you know, you're doing your part emotionally of kind of carrying on her story and making sure that the kids grandkids know who she was and that you're reliving some of these experiences with them. But then still you have this unsolved case that needs fixing.
- [33:28]
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Emily (Brittany's Sister)
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- [35:03]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
When I was working the case, Quinn Carlson was lead investigator. I believe he went to another city or something. So who's overseeing the case now?
- [35:15]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Quinn did. He took on a better paying job and switched apartments. I actually had to call my dad this morning because I knew you were going to ask that question. So I had to call him and I was like, hey, do you know who is working Britney's case? And he was like, no, I, I don't. So he called the sheriff's department yesterday to find out. And the guy's name is Sergeant Harry Ishman. Okay, we've not got to meet him yet. And of course, you know, I called my dad about it and he calls up there and he finds out and he's like, I'm kind of mad. And I was like, why are you mad? And he was like, do you know that they waited three months to tell me that they moved this guy off Brittany's case that was supposed to be working it? And he goes, I went to the grocery store and some lady walked up to me and asked me how I felt about the detective leaving the Brown County Sheriff's office and nobody work in Britney's case. And I was like, that's how you found out? And he was like, yeah, took your mom to the grocery store. And some random stranger came up and told me. He was like, they didn't even have the decency to call me and tell me what was going on.
- [36:24]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Wow.
- [36:25]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
So he went up there and he scheduled a meeting with the sheriff's office and the prosecutor's office. And he talked to me and he was like, I don't know what I can do. He's like, but I want to prove to them that I'm serious and I'm not letting this go. So I told him. I was like, well, I looked into it and I was like, you can do an open records request. And he's like, I've done that before. And all they gave me was two pages of papers that were all blacked out. I was like, how about I write the open records report? So I got on my laptop and I wrote out the letter and I told him, I was like, I'm going to send one to the sheriff's office. I was like, I'm going to send one to the prosecutor's office, and I'm gonna send one to Ohio Attorney General. So I wrote the letters and he went up there and had the meeting with him. And dad was like, well, do you not think it's weird that 12 years now and the case has only ever been in the Brown County Sheriff's hands? And here we are 12 years later, and we are no further than the day it happened. And they were like, well, we think that you're right. And we're gonna do our best to get all these files to you that you've requested. And we're going to take a look at possibly reworking her case from the beginning with this new detective. But they didn't mention who the detective was until yesterday when he called and told him that I was going to be doing an interview with you. And then all of a sudden they were like, here's his name, here's his contact. I guess he's been on the case for a couple weeks now, but he hasn't talked to any of us, my mom and dad or anyone. So we haven't really got the chance to formally meet him. Which is odd because usually the first thing they do is they introduce us to whoever the new detective is working the case. And they haven't done that yet. So.
- [38:08]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, I'm sorry y' all had to learn about it that way. That is unfortunate. It's hard because, you know, I never worked on the force, so I can't say what's going on in their day to day lives that they don't have, you know, many other important issues to tend to, I'm sure. But at the same time, that's always so interesting to me when you hear. Cause this happens other places too. If like a case switching hands or a detective stepping out or whatever it is, and then like a family just never being notified is just such a weird thing to me.
- [38:35]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
That's what was frustrating with my dad because he was like, it's whiplash. There's been so many detectives and so many police officers on this case, now I can't even keep track of all their names. Yeah, he was like. And it. It literally feels like we're at a point where if the sheriff's department can't solve it or can't do anything, they need to bring someone else in or ask for help or give it off to someone who can look into it. Something.
- [39:03]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah, for sure. I wanted to ask you about that as far as next steps and if that's something you all have talked about amongst yourselves or Even with the Brown County Sheriff's Office. As far as, like, is there a possibility that another agency, the BCI or something like that could take a look at this? Has that ever been discussed or explored in any way? Or what are the next steps for you? All right, now, like, where do you go from here?
- [39:27]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
We've had that conversation, and that's kind of why we did the letters. We wanted to show them. Like, you know, if you guys aren't going to do anything, we're going to find someone who will. We want to have faith in the sheriff's department, because, like I said, I don't know this Terry Isman. I've never met him. I don't know what kind of cop he is. He could be the best cop in the world. And maybe he's just reviewing everything before he reaches out. I don't know because I've never met him. Now, as far as, like, the cops in the beginning that handled it, there was no trust there. I think that they made a lot of mistakes, and I think that that's part of the reason Britney's case is still unsolved. Because initially they brought in bci. Three years after Britney was killed, my mom and dad caused a big stink. And finally BCI came in and they told us all that there was mistakes made on Britney's case that not even a rookie should have made. So why was that not looked into? Why is there things missing? Why is there evidence that's not logged correctly? Like, why are there interview tapes that are missing? Why have we not looked into those officers and what happened? And I think until, you know, they do, it's not going to go anywhere. The attitude that that stuff is in the past, so it doesn't involve us, I think is a detrimental, horrible attitude to have because you have to look back at the things that happened in the past and the mistakes that were made. Because it affects the future of the case. It affects where her case goes. And I personally, I think the best thing that they could do is just be like, hey, we made mistakes and we need help. But I don't know if the sheriff's department is ever going to allow that to happen. I don't know if they're ever going to be willing to let Brittany's case be looked at by someone else. And that part, to me, is so frustrating because here we are 12 years later, and you all are saying, like, oh, it's not a cold case. We're still working it, but you're no closer than what it was, right?
- [41:29]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
It's like you'd almost take more comfort in saying, like, this thing is stalled out. We're kind of out of leads to chase. Maybe it's time for somebody else to step in and take a look at it. So you said you did records requests. Were those just denied, or did you say you all were able to get some things? They were just heavily redacted?
- [41:46]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Well, they told my dad that they were working on it and trying to figure out what they could give him legally and what they couldn't. That they almost had everything put together, and they would call us back and let us know when they were allowed to release it. But so far, we haven't gotten anything.
- [42:02]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
When did that conversation happen?
- [42:04]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Three weeks ago.
- [42:05]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Okay. All right. Well, it's pretty fresh, at least. I always hope that maybe you all would have some good fortune there and get access to at least some stuff. I mean, I know y' all gotta be even more curious than we are to know, like, what's in there and see some of the early investigation. And so I really hope that y' all are able to work something out there. Y' all deserve it. It's just been so long now, and just getting passed around from one to the next with no real breaks or no real evidence that any progress is being made is. Sorry. I hate that for y'.
- [42:37]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
All.
- [42:37]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
I'm sorry.
- [42:38]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
I think that my family has kind of proven that we're not going to go away with it, you know, we're not going to let it go. I myself will always continue to advocate for Brittany. And I know that, you know, people probably get sick of hearing it, but to all of us, she was somebody. She was somebody important. So as far as, like, the giving up hope, you're not going to see that. For many of us, we're definitely going to continue to advocate for her and push for some kind of justice for her. My parents are getting older, getting up there in age, and I feel like that they deserve to get answers. That's my dad's main concern. He doesn't want anything to happen to him or my mom and not know. I think it would be amazing to have justice. I do. I think to see the person that did this behind bars would be the greatest thing. But at the same time, I think that it would be healing for all of us to know why and who did it. And as far as to whoever did it and people that know information, come forward, clear your conscience. You're affecting so many people's lives by staying quiet or not admitting to it. It's unbelievable. I want to see that my sister gets justice someday. I would love to see someone come forward and just put all of this to rest and help my sister rest and give my family a little bit of peace.
- [44:05]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah.
- [44:06]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
And as far as to the sheriff's department, I would like to say that if you guys can't solve this case or you're not going to get anywhere, ask for help, bring someone else in, share her case somewhere else. It's not fair to the families for you to sit there and not be able to go anywhere, work this case and not ask for help. These detectives need to know that everything you say and you do and the promises you make affect people, affect the victims, their families. Until you're in their headspace and you're seeing what they're going through, you're not really understanding it. Because I've seen the roller coaster emotionally and mentally that it's put my siblings through, my parents through, and it's. It's tough. It's not even the hope that's paralyzing. It's just the emptiness in it. It's awful.
- [45:04]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Yeah. No, I'm, I'm totally tracking with you. It's like, at what point do you just kind of be honest and admit, you know, it's almost like the elephant in the room. Right. It's been how many years and how many detectives and how many empty promises? Yeah, like, at what point Is that the better way of kind of instilling some hope? As weird as it sounds, it was just saying, like, you know what? I think we've reached that point. Maybe we can't solve this. I'm kind of with you on that for the most part. Like, I don't know, Sergeant Ishman, and I really hope for you all that, that he's a rock star. But y' all aren't going to sit there and try to lie to yourselves. You know, it's not like you all are walking around hopeless, but you're also not going to sit there and put a ton of hope in the next investigator that comes along when nothing along. This case's, what, 11, 12 year history has done anything to change that. So I hope something changes with this soon. Obviously, I think about y' all all the time, and I hate that y' all are in this position. Hope this is the year. I'm not gonna lie to you and say that it will be or try to instill any false hope like you speak of, but I, I. Oh, you're good. I do hope that this is the year.
- [46:14]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
I do want to say that I appreciate you guys for doing the podcast and for, you know, wanting to come back and look at how things have changed. And I appreciate everybody that listens and shares the podcast and that follows along and shows support on the Facebook group. I think that just the support in the community and around the world has been amazing, and it really has made a difference and touched all of us. Knowing that you guys care the way you do. Your podcast is very tasteful, and you're. You are very sympathetic with the families, and you just. I think that you do a really great job.
- [46:53]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
Thank you. That really means a lot to me. I try to. It's hard. It's. It's kind of like a tightrope. You walk sort of, in some ways. But, yeah, like I said, it's funny now talking to you because I definitely was a little bit nervous to approach or talk to you the very first time we came across each other in life. But I feel like that's long in the past now, and I'm thankful that we got this opportunity to reconnect on this, and I'm sure we will in the future.
- [47:17]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
Definitely struggled with everything in the beginning. Struggled with myself, struggled with Brittany's death. I've came a long, long, long way.
- [47:25]
Interviewer/Podcast Host
That's awesome. I love that. Well, I'll. Yeah, I mean, I'll continue to be in touch with y'. All. So thankful we got to do this. Thankful that it sounds like you said y' all are all doing good, all things considered. Obviously, you're still close and right next to each other as always, and. And now it's been really good connecting with you.
- [47:57]
Host - Season Recap and Introduction
I hope you enjoyed listening to this episode. It sounds like Emily and the rest of Brittany's family have not given up hope and are continuing to fight for answers. And I'm hopeful that through their persistence, they'll learn some things this year. So stay tuned for any future updates on Brittany's case. I just want to say I really enjoy going back and reliving both seasons one and two of Culpable and taking some time to catch up with both Ray and Emily. It can be a challenge keeping a spotlight on past cases while also moving on to newer ones. So I really appreciate each of you for tuning in for these episodes and helping to keep both Christian and Brittany stories alive. As I hinted at before, I've been hard at work on a new season of Culpable, which will be coming this August. So if you haven't already subscribed, be sure to do that so that you can stay up to speed on the latest regarding season three. Until next time.
- [48:58]
Emily (Brittany's Sister)
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