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- [00:00]
Dennis Cooper
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- [00:28]
Host/Narrator
Hey guys, it's me again. As promised, I'm back with another bonus episode that I think many of you will be excited to hear. As you know, season one of Culpable focused on the suspicious death of 21 year old Christian Andreacchio in Meridian, Mississippi. But if you listen to the show, then you know that a lot of the story actually centered around his family, primarily his mother, Ray Andreacchio, and her relentless pursuit of justice. The more I got to know Ray and hear her journey to find the truth about what happened to her son, the more compelled I was to share her journey, knowing that there are so many other families out there who find themselves in a similar position. And because of that, Ray became a very central figure in all of this. She and I have stayed in touch ever since, either through text message or email. But sadly, we hadn't had a true sit down in depth type of conversation in many years. So on the heels of that last episode, I dropped where I listened to and gave commentary on the making of episode one. I decided why not go ahead and do that now while I'm actively reflecting on that experience. So recently we had that long awaited conversation, doing some more reflecting on season one, catching up on all that's happened and been learned since, and discussing what's to come in the future. Today I'll be sharing that conversation with you. I hope you enjoy listening to this and hearing Rey's voice for the first time in many years. Make sure you stick around to the end as I have a couple announcements about some more episodes that we'll be releasing in the coming weeks as we prepare for the release of season three this August. And with that, let's hear from Ray.
- [02:02]
Dennis Cooper
Well, I'm glad we're getting this chance to connect again. It's really good to see you. You know I told you when I reached out about this, what kind of led me to want to do this was that I started producing another episode. Basically just a re release of episode one of Cold bowl, the original, very first episode I ever created just to kind of relive that. And that was really neat. And it kind of brought out a lot of thoughts, questions and whatnot. And I realized, like, it'd be really good to play catch up with you. How's everybody doing? What's new in your all's lives?
- [02:36]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, since the podcast, I guess I now have four grandchildren. So we have a five, four, three, two year old.
- [02:44]
Dennis Cooper
That's awesome.
- [02:45]
Ray Andreacchio
Two boys, two girls. Alexa has a boy and a girl and Josh has a boy and a girl. And so, you know, we're just starting the T ball registrations and the dance recitals and that kind of thing. So kind of entered a new phase, I guess, in Todd and I's life. Alexis still lives close to us in Delwood. They're doing pretty well and staying busy. Josh is working full time at the Navy base here in Meridian and he likes his job and he's doing kind of the tech thing, simulators, which is right up his alley.
- [03:23]
Dennis Cooper
That's awesome. Has that been exciting for you all?
- [03:25]
Ray Andreacchio
Oh, yeah, yeah. And I think it helps too. Even dealing with Christian's death is, you know, you have these little ones and I catch myself, especially Ashton, he's the five year old. Telling Alexa now, that was just like Christian. You know, we say that all the time. So, yes, I think that that has been very helpful as far as just kind of a healing process.
- [03:52]
Dennis Cooper
That's awesome. What about for Josh and Alexa? I mean, are they. How's the parenting life going for them?
- [03:58]
Ray Andreacchio
Good. I mean, they're both good parents. Totally opposite spectrums, as you can. You've met Alexa and you've met Josh. So they're totally different personalities. Josh is a great father. He's always been so patient and so, you know, he just never raises his voice and he's just kind of very zen. And Alexa, you know, raises her children just like she lives life with her hair on fire and just, you know, running around and does a lot with them. I think it has helped them too. She'll send pictures of Ashton and then send a picture of Christian that was around that same age and go, you know, oh, they look so much alike or they are acting so much alike. So she and I probably talk more. Josh has always been very more reserved about talking about Christian and has always just kind of more internalized his feelings about that.
- [04:52]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah, for sure. What about Todd?
- [04:56]
Ray Andreacchio
Todd is doing fine. Just, you know, he takes up a lot of time with grandkids, keeps them a lot. He's always been very good with kids, so he's their favorite, for sure.
- [05:09]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah. That's awesome. And what about you?
- [05:12]
Host/Narrator
What's new in your world?
- [05:14]
Ray Andreacchio
Just working. Working and.
- [05:16]
Dennis Cooper
Same place?
- [05:17]
Ray Andreacchio
Yeah, yeah, I'll probably be there till I die. You know, still working on. In kind of in the background. I know a lot of people because we don't post a lot on justice for Christian, and we don't do a lot of updates primarily because of, you know, there's always been a lawsuit typically going on. And so a lot of people, I think, think it's kind of died down or that we've kind of just moved along with our life and, you know, that's far from the truth. I still work on it all the time and still always looking for ways to try to move things forward.
- [05:53]
Dennis Cooper
That's actually a good segue for me because, you know, kind of, like I said, going back and listening to things and just brought back a lot of thoughts, like going back and hearing your voice for the first time and kind of put myself back in your living room and talking about stuff. Have you ever listened to the first episode of Culpable?
- [06:12]
Ray Andreacchio
I don't think that I ever listened to it, like, sat down and listened to a complete episode. I think that after they released the autopsy photos, I really don't know that I ever. It wasn't anything about the podcast. It was just. I think that was kind of almost like a breaking point for me of. I don't know. I just. It just kind of flipped a switch in me. And so I don't know that I don't think I have ever listened at all to any of the last few episodes. And when you called, I thought, oh, this is really a neat idea, and I really should go back and listen to them one episode at a time, because I would probably be shocked at maybe things that now we know that we didn't. Couldn't prove, now we can prove or beliefs we had at that time that now we say, hey, we now know that was kind of the wrong path to go down. But, you know, people would send me little clips or whatever and again, give feedback and whatever. I just really didn't get too involved in the discussions or anything because, I mean, it is very personal. A lot of the information, as far as when I say personal, just feelings that you have, and again, I just really didn't want to hear some of it.
- [07:26]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah, no, that totally makes sense. I don't hold that against you at all. I got emotional, you know, listening to you talk an episode. And, you know, there's two different spots where you break down and cry and stuff, and that still gets Me and just reflecting on the story itself and Christian and then even, like, creative elements to it. You know, the way we open the episode, the way we close the episode, the music and those things. Like, I was surprised that, you know, it still gave me chills, like, listening to it. And so it's a heavy listen. The whole show is. But the first episode definitely is. And, like, you know, when you take into account the production, the score, everything else, it just. It's very immersive. And I could totally understand not wanting to fully immerse yourself and that. Not to mention you're constantly in it. Anyways. Why did you even trust me to tell this story? How did that even happen? Like, why. Why did you trust us to do it?
- [08:23]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, I think one thing was probably because I came to y'. All. You didn't come to me. You know, Victoria had gone to CrimeCon and she got your card just off a table, I think, you know, and had brought it back to me. And I had said, you know, I think that I'll just. It won't be any good, but I'll try just to do a podcast or do some episodes or something. I didn't even know what it would be, and just at least somebody would be talking about, you know, And I think I even told the guy. I was like, I know nobody will listen to it, but, you know, it'll just make me feel better to know that I'm putting this information out there. Victoria had given me Yalls card, and I had contacted and so just whoever had answered the phone, and I was asking him, basically, how much will it cost for y' all to edit? Because that's really what y' all were doing then was editing podcast. You know, I think I ended up talking to him for, like, an hour on the phone, and at the end, he said, well, let me talk to some of our other team because we've been talking about doing our own podcast. And, you know, he said, let me just tell them the story and tell them, and then if they are interested, they'll get in touch with you. And y' all did. And, I mean, I think. I guess it was just like a God thing. I don't know. I mean, just because, yes, I am a very distrustful person with anybody kind of, you know, in any type of role that could harm. But, I mean, I guess it was mainly because y' all did seem like you were honest. You seem like you were sincere. You didn't come across as overeager. You know, like, oh, we're going to you know, it was more like, hey, we don't really know what we're doing. We've never done a podcast, but we really would like to this be our first one. And you were very. All of who I could considered the group as you, Jacob and Mark, all three of y' all were very upfront about that. You felt like you could do it justice, but you weren't going to make any guarantees because this was going to be your first try at this.
- [10:23]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah, no, that's very accurate. Yeah. And I guess that's kind of why. Why that question came to mind for me is, like, we hadn't done it before, and I don't remember necessarily having a crazy amount of confidence. I mean, I think it was more, if anything, just like a passion of, like, a gut feeling of, like, I think I can. But the funny thing is, I remember I had totally forgot about what you just said about how you were kind of already gearing up to try to do a podcast when we got in touch. And you're like, I even have a guy who's willing to host it. And I want to say he was even attached on the email. I don't remember who it was.
- [10:58]
Ray Andreacchio
Oh, I remember. Yeah. There was someone that I worked with, and I had asked him if I could kind of like, write out the script or whatever you want to say, if he would be able to just narrate it. But, yeah, I'd forgot. I'd forgot about that.
- [11:15]
Dennis Cooper
I had, too. And, like. But now I remember it so vividly because looking back, I think when we first started talking, I believe I was entertaining the idea of him, or at least somebody else hosting it, because I initially didn't want to do that. I've never really been one to put myself out there like that, and it just, you know, just wasn't really my character and didn't feel natural. So I had no real itch to want to host it. And I just remember Jacob and Mark really trying to encourage me of, like, you can do this. Like, just. Just do it, man. But I guess, you know, it all worked out okay.
- [11:52]
Ray Andreacchio
Yeah. Because it's like I was telling you, you know, I think when we spoke last week, I mean, a lot of the comments that I see usually are about, you know, oh, I love the guy who narrated it, or I love, you know, it was a great storytelling. And I know that you did, I guess, the majority or all of the actual writing of it. And, you know, so I think you should be very proud.
- [12:15]
Dennis Cooper
Well, thank you.
- [12:16]
Ray Andreacchio
And, I mean, I still See, sometimes things come across Instagram or TikTok or whatever that will say, you know, here are my top 10 true crime podcasts. And Culpable is typically in the top 10, even though it's being in five or six years later.
- [12:32]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah, no, that. That's awesome. I definitely do not take that for granted. We did something right. I mean, a lot of people listened. A lot of people still reach out about it this day. And actually, that's another good segue, because that's what I wanted to ask you about. I get a lot of feedback from people who were very inspired by you and your courage and your determination to solve his case and get Christian justice. And I wanted to ask you, like, did you ever, like, expect that. That you would, like, be an inspiration in some ways to others and all this, like, your. Your journey and all this would inspire other people or move them in that way?
- [13:12]
Host/Narrator
Or do you ever hear any of.
- [13:13]
Dennis Cooper
That stuff directly from other people? The same way I have through, you know, Culpable's channels.
- [13:19]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, to your first question, as far as being inspirational, I don't feel like I'm an inspirational figure or whatever at all because I look back at all the mistakes made. I don't look at the right moves. I look at all the mistakes I made that I say, you know, well, if I have had. I've made this choice or that choice, maybe we would, you know, maybe this would have happened. So as far as that goes, I mean, I'm glad that people took something away from it. And yes, I did get contacted. I don't, you know, now as much, but obviously during the podcast, even up to a couple of years after the podcast, people would contact me through usually Facebook messenger and just say, hey, I had a similar situation, or I have this going on. You know, actually I've made a good friend with someone who is kind of in the early. I call her a baby because she's only two years into this, you know, it's her sister. And I see things that. The emotions that she's going through and, like, the attempts that she's doing to get things done. I encourage her and say, oh, this is great. Have you thought about doing this? But I also feel sad, you know, almost for her, because I remember those feelings. I remember being hopeful, you know, being, oh, this is gonna get. If we can just, you know, you get a letter from somebody, somebody acknowledges in, like, a position, and you get your hopes up and you think, oh, no, this time I finally found that one person that something's going to be done. And then you don't hear from them, even though they swear they're going to call you back or they're going to look into this and they'll get back with you. So I'm always hopeful for her that she doesn't have the same experience. But I'm also cynical enough after this, the last 11 years to know that probably she's going to be let down.
- [15:20]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah. On that note, for somebody who did find themselves in a similar situation as you, what would be your advice to somebody like that? How have you encouraged, for example, your friend in their journey?
- [15:33]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, actually, Jana is the friend. She. She reached out early on what I told her when she said, you know, hey, I'm going to pursue this. I said, document, document, document, record, record, record. I didn't do that at the very beginning because, again, I thought, you know, oh, everybody, somebody's going to do the right thing. Yeah, this was just a sorry investigator, but, you know, this next person, I'm gonna go to them. And so it was, you know, months before I realized they're not gonna do what they're supposed to do. And so the first, probably six months, I didn't do a good job of keeping very accurate records of I talked to this person at this time and having a witness and recording conversations and that kind of thing.
- [16:22]
Dennis Cooper
So, yeah, I didn't expect you to go that way. That's actually a really good piece of advice, and I know it is because I've gone on to tell other families that same thing. And I think what you said earlier, too, before that, before I even asked that question, is helpful, too. Just, you know, that mental preparation that what you're about to get into could be a really long road and will for sure be a road of ups and downs. You know, these good moments will hopefully happen along the way that instill some hope. But, you know, there's also a really good chance that it's going to be followed by some not so good things. You know, I got to see firsthand a lot of your journey with this. And we as a team kind of had our own journey with it. And, you know, with that, the same thing with how all this played out. None of us could have really prepared or known what this would turn into. There was such, like, a ripple effect with the podcast, you could say all the hate groups that formed, like, on Facebook and stuff. I didn't expect that. And then I think about what you mentioned earlier, with his autopsy photos getting shared, getting released, and then you think about the lawsuits, like that was just like, what the hell has happened here? Like, oh, my gosh. And, you know, it all worked out fine, and it's like, it never happened. Right. So we were validated in that. But still, it was just like, I didn't expect this. And I wanted to ask you, like, was there ever a moment where you kind of had that, oh, crap moment? Like, what have we started here? Or what is this turning into?
- [18:02]
Ray Andreacchio
Not, like, in a way of I wish I hadn't done this. I don't think that really ever crossed my mind, you know. And then, like, with the defamation lawsuit, I was actually fine with that because I. Cynthia, my attorney at the time, had always said the best thing that could happen would be for Whitley to file a defamation suit, she said, because then she's going to have to be deposed, and then we can do depositions of all these people. And so I was okay with the defamation suit. You know, I knew they were going to drop it before she ever was deposed.
- [18:38]
Dennis Cooper
How'd you know that?
- [18:40]
Ray Andreacchio
I knew she'd never be deposed. I've always said that that was just to shut me up, and they thought it was going to shut me up, you know. Now, was I surprised that Jet was actually deposed? Yes. I really figured that they would drop it before anybody was deposed. But, you know, like I said, that actually helped us. And then, you know, as far as the other lawsuits, we knew that a lot of the lawsuits that were filed were iffy because there wasn't a lot of precedent out there. And Cynthia would say, we're either going to make president and make history, or we're going to, you know, it's going to get dismissed. So I went in with not, you know, just huge hopes, but, you know, at the end of the day, we did get depositions. We did depose a lot of people. There, of course, were several that we would have liked to have deposed. You know, we served Whitley three times, I think, and she still was never deposed. We went all the way down, the attorneys and the court reporter and all that. She was in jail down on the coast, and we went down there to depose her, thinking, okay, good, she's in jail. She can't run. She's got to show up. Went down there, and she refused to come to the deposition. And they said, well, we can't make her come out. You know. So to me, that just showed that she had a lot. If, you know, if you have so many things have been said that are wrong about you, this is your perfect opportunity to set it straight. And she Dipped and dodged that. Dylan. The same way. Dylan. As soon as we started having people subpoenaed for depositions, he disappeared. He quit living in Delwood. And from my understanding, he even moved out of town for a while, you know, making it very difficult for us to find him. So there were definitely some people that we weren't able to depose, but there were, again, a lot that we were able to get.
- [20:46]
Dennis Cooper
How much are you able to go into that? The lawsuits at this point? Like, are those all over and done with?
- [20:52]
Ray Andreacchio
Yes. First time in years that there is no lawsuits. I still think there's one big lawsuit out there waiting to be filed. But, you know, I've got to find the right person that's willing to file that lawsuit. The statute of limitations for conspiracy starts the last act of conspiracy. Well, conspiracy is still ongoing. Those people are still lying in depositions. And I think that the depositions that we have done definitely paint a picture of conspiracy. But, you know, attorneys, other people have said, well, yeah, it does look like they were all kind of working together. So I'm still hopeful that I can. And it's not a money thing. It's that people need to know. I mean, number one, they don't need to get away with it because I've always said there is nothing special about Christian's case or Christian, you know, to. It's not like he was some political figure or anything, you know, some. But. So if it's happened to him and me and my family, it's happened here in Lauderdale County. No telling how many times before and after. But, you know, the same people are still in the positions, and it's going to keep on. And as long as they have no repercussions, there's no reason for them to stop.
- [22:17]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah, that makes sense.
- [22:29]
Host/Narrator
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- [23:34]
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- [25:17]
Dennis Cooper
What about new information? Do you feel like any new information was learned throughout those processes too?
- [25:26]
Ray Andreacchio
Yes. I mean, to the point that even some people that had like outside investigators or whatever that had said it was a suicide have now said we don't think it's a suicide either. And you know, I think there's also just a lot of information that was never released because there was always this, you know, in the background of, well, let's hold back that information because we don't want to damage case or we don't want to get ahead of ourselves or we don't know if we're Going to need this in a. You know, in the future for, you know, so there's always kind of this. There were certain things that we've known for years, but we've never talked about, because, again, I guess there's always just been that feeling that we needed to. There were certain things we needed to not make public. You know, I always had concerns about the coroner. People always pushed back because I always felt like he was a part of, I guess you'd say, the conspiracy. And I was probably the only person that thought he was. That he knew all along. And after his deposition and after two other people's deposition, I definitely think that he knew what was going on from before he probably ever arrived at the apartment. That's my. You know, that's my. My opinion. But there's always been a lot of discussion about rigor and the stage of rigor and all that. And so there were some things that came out in the depositions of people who were actually at the apartment that day who all said, oh, he was in advanced stages, way advanced stages of rigor. Actually, probably the coroner is the only person who says that he was not. I mean, this has been discussed before. But something that was said by one of the EMTs in the deposition was they didn't understand why the coroner couldn't remember that he was in advanced stages of rigor, because when they tried to put Christian in the body bag, because of his legs were curled, the fetal position type he was in, they were not able to zip. It was very difficult to zip the body bag. And he said, you know, I don't understand why he doesn't remember us struggling to get it closed up. So that was a very vivid memory of his. And I just, you know, again, I just think there's a lot that could definitely be proved.
- [28:09]
Dennis Cooper
So you mentioned, like, at some point, you could foresee a lawsuit if the stars align. Right. But I guess, like, beyond that, are you. Do you think you'll put some of this stuff out there at some point in some way or. Like, do you plan to do anything with this?
- [28:24]
Ray Andreacchio
Oh, yeah. I plan on putting everything out there one way or the other, even if it means that I do a TikTok and I go on there myself. And we go through step by step, every thing from phone records to, you know, everything. Then, I mean, everybody's gonna know. I'm not gonna just sit on this and say, okay, you know, we're going to put everything out there, you know, good, bad, and ugly.
- [28:50]
Dennis Cooper
Who is handling Christian's case at this point, like, you know, what's its status, who's investigating it or is anybody, you know, where do things stand there?
- [28:59]
Ray Andreacchio
It's considered a closed case and it's in the Attorney General's hands. And so Meridian Police Department say that they don't really have, you know, anything to do with it because the Attorney General's office has it. The Attorney General's office kind of says, well, we're not going to stop Meridian from investigating if they want to investigate. But they both use each other as kind of pointing fingers at each other. Well, you know, we're not going to do anything, but you can do something. Attorney General's office has always, well, I'll say always for the last, you know, whatever few years, four years, said that there's a conflict of interest and so they refuse to do anything, anything with it. They agreed it needed to be a special prosecutor appointed. Really, everybody agreed that the case needed to be reopened or represented to a new grand jury. There needed to be a special prosecutor.
- [29:56]
Dennis Cooper
When you say everybody, like who, who all was on board with that?
- [30:01]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, there was a hearing in front of Judge Wright. It's probably been three years ago and it may have been four, but I think it's probably been three. And Cassie recused herself. The D.A. she recused her office during that hearing. She acknowledged that there was information that was not presented to the grand jury. She acknowledged, you know, kind of 48 hours, kind of cold busted her on that. And she said that she agreed that there should be a special prosecutor appointed and that it be represented. We also had a representative from the Attorney General's office there, an attorney. And she had said that their office was not going to get involved because there was a conflict of interest because Bilbo was now working at their office on a part time basis as a prosecutor. And so they agreed, and it's all in court documents, that there was new information and that they also supported a special prosecutor being appointed and it going back before a new grand jury. So, you know, you had both agencies saying, oh yeah, we agree, but I don't know whether they did it intentionally or it was just their luck that it's almost like they've boxed me in now because you have the two agencies that are the ones who one or the other should be doing it. But both of them are saying, well, you know, Cassie said, oh, my office is recused. You know, so there is. I mean, actually the county attorney, without being appointed, could take it to the grand jury because by statute, Mississippi statute, the county attorney has that authority to do that. And I've, you know, and we've spoken to him, Very nice guy, and I don't blame him, but he just said, you know, I understand that legally I could do this, but it never is done. And if I pick this case to do, you know, basically, he'd get a lot of pushback from people who are saying, oh, you're playing favoritism or you're taking their side or you're whatever. So, you know, he won't utilize that statutory. Right. Basically.
- [32:25]
Host/Narrator
That's tough.
- [32:26]
Ray Andreacchio
So we're back to. As much as, you know, I don't like really doing media. We're back to, you know, doing, like, really pushing for a documentary because it's, you know, you have. I have found basically two avenues. When law enforcement won't do what they're supposed to do, or the DA or the attorney general, you bring bad press to them and put pressure on them, or you do the civil route, you know, civil suits. And we've done the civil suit route, and now we've kind of exhausted that. So now we're back to being very focused on getting a documentary done.
- [33:04]
Dennis Cooper
Awesome. Well, that was gonna be. My next question, actually, is like, where. What are your. All your next steps right now? Like, what are you working on?
- [33:12]
Ray Andreacchio
So Victoria, my niece, is an attorney now. So she. I've hired her. The firm she works for, to. They're working on an angle that actually came out in the deposition that has to do with Christian's case. They're working on getting something changed. So hopefully in the near future, we'll have some answers about that and, you know, have more information.
- [33:39]
Dennis Cooper
And Victoria's the one who shared his case with us, right? Yeah.
- [33:42]
Ray Andreacchio
Right. Yeah.
- [33:42]
Dennis Cooper
That's really cool.
- [33:43]
Ray Andreacchio
Victoria to CrimeCon, because I was talking about doing this podcast and was like, I'm gonna pay for you to go to CrimeCon and just go and talk to some people and get some. You know, make some contacts. And so that was her reason for being there. So she's now an attorney, and that's doing very well.
- [34:00]
Dennis Cooper
That's awesome.
- [34:01]
Ray Andreacchio
But they're working on that. I've been under contract to do a documentary, I guess you'd kind of say one and a half times. One time. And then I kind of backed out of that one after the contract period was up because I didn't really like the direction that they were trying to go. And then the other time, I just never actually signed a contract because I didn't like the terms. You know, I think that Christian's actual case, and his story has been told by so many people. But because of the time frame that has gone on and, you know, things have continued to happen over the last 11 years, a lot of people will think that this is a retelling of Christian's case, but it really isn't. You know, I think the documentary needs to focus also on all the overarching things, you know, the different things that occurred. I don't want Christian to get lost, and obviously he would be the focus. And everything we do is directed toward trying to get his case back in front of a grand jury. But I think that the way to do that is going to be to shine more light on the actions of the people who have the authority. 2. I mean, it'd be very easy. I've always said, why are they fighting so hard to keep this from going to another grand jury or fighting so hard to keep this case of suicide? They shouldn't worry about that. I have enough information to show it's not. But there's so much more going on behind the scenes than just, you know, this is a suicide or not a suicide.
- [35:36]
Dennis Cooper
Right. So it's more just about. More about how the mishandling of it all and lying in depositions or whatever it might be, and that was why I wanted to catch up with you, is because I know that stuff has happened since, and quite frankly, I haven't really been very much in the loop on that. You've probably even gathered even more evidence, and there's even more stuff to show and share with the world now. So I hope something works out there. I totally understand the concern of the narrative and struggling to trust somebody, and maybe that's really all it is. You just need somebody that you can trust. Because, I mean, I think about the podcast, and it's like, again, we didn't. Back to the beginning, we didn't know what the heck we were doing. But it's like, you know, for whatever reason, you reached a point where you felt comfortable letting us run with the story. So, you know, hopefully you just need that person to come along.
- [36:29]
Ray Andreacchio
I think that people think. And I mean, and if I had not done this before, I would think the same thing. They think that the family, you know, they're controlling what is said. They're, you know, and even with y', all, I mean, I can remember, like I said, every episode that would come out, we didn't usually know. And so there was always that concern that, you know, something would be portrayed as not the way we thought it should. Be portrayed. And, you know, there were times I got a little upset with you because it'd be like, you know, they should have. They should have put this in or they should have. So to think that, I mean, I think that you were very fair because you didn't 100%, you know, do and say things that I wanted you to do and say by far. But, I mean, I'm glad that, you know, you did present it in a fair. And it wasn't just, oh, this is the Andrea Keo's podcast. I mean, it was that, you know, it was totally yalls control as far as what the content would be, you know, and all the other things that we've done. You know, 48 hours and crime watch daily, especially 48 hours. I mean, you really are on pins and needles because you don't know what direction. I mean, I hit the roof when I found out that they, you know, had interviewed Whitley and Dylan and was going to include that, because my thing is, if they're not going to answer questions, why would you give them airtime? And I sent a very ugly email to the producer, 48 hours, which I'm sure he gets a lot from families that they do similar things to. So I think his response was, I'm sorry you feel that way, but I think that you'll be okay once you see the episode. And so.
- [38:23]
Dennis Cooper
Okay, so it was before you saw it, then.
- [38:25]
Ray Andreacchio
Oh, well, I never did watch it, but.
- [38:27]
Dennis Cooper
Oh, really?
- [38:27]
Ray Andreacchio
No, I've never watched it, but, you know, but like, the people that, like I said, we've become friends with, like, through culpable, really through, you know, the different Facebook groups and all. And Sleuth Syndicate was very, you know, gracious and very good about covering Christian's case and kind of covered along with y' all as an episode came out, you know, they kind of then would do the analysis, I guess you'd say. And then as things happened and, you know, becoming friends with people from all over the United States that, you know, you would have never met, never connected without probably culpable. And a group of us all got together and went to Florida on the anniversary of Christian's death. So, you know, they're friends outside of Christian's case, and they've been very supportive in all areas. People who have been become lifelong friends that we would have never met.
- [39:28]
Dennis Cooper
That's really cool. I'm glad you found them and have that. I mean, that's definitely not something I would have expected to come of this. I mean, it makes sense now in hindsight but you don't think about those things. And that's funny what you said too, just about like the idea of like controlling the narrative, which I can understand why people could see it that way because I mean, we did build a really, I mean, we had a close relationship. But no, I couldn't. Can't let you control that, obviously. But I'm glad we did. Right. Or else you probably wouldn't be talking to me right now. Ray.
- [40:04]
Ray Andreacchio
Yeah.
- [40:07]
Dennis Cooper
So, yeah, you just got to find the right, the right person to come along. There's a story there worth telling. And I mean, I know a little bit about like what some of the lawsuits entailed and you've hinted at now, of course, kind of how this angle has shifted, which really, you've probably seen it that way as far as I guess conspiracy goes for a long time now. But in some ways that actually had already started to kind of rear its head when culpable was out with how things shifted at the end between maybe, I don't know when it started. Maybe it started with like the release of the autopsy photos and, you know, these hate groups and stuff. But then there was like the closed door meeting that happened with all the officials that went out there and some of what was said in there. And then the stuff about Arrington came up. Of course, he goes on 48 hours and then that cat was let out of the bag too. So in some ways some of that stuff was already kind of rearing its head. You know, had we released it a.
- [41:03]
Host/Narrator
Year later, maybe we would have been.
- [41:04]
Dennis Cooper
Telling a lot of that stuff, obviously. So, yeah, I hope you're able to work something out there.
- [41:18]
Ray Andreacchio
We all belong outside.
- [41:20]
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Ray Andreacchio
First few vet visits, you've probably already.
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- [42:23]
Ray Andreacchio
Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check. Whoa. When did I get here? What do you mean?
- [42:28]
Dennis Cooper
I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online. I must have time traveled to the future.
- [42:33]
Ray Andreacchio
It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.
- [42:38]
Advertisement Voice
It is the future.
- [42:40]
Ray Andreacchio
It's. It's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.
- [42:44]
Dennis Cooper
It's all good. Happens all the time.
- [42:47]
Ray Andreacchio
Sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pick up. Times may vary and fees may apply. I will say that. I guess going back to the thing of when you ask what some advice to give and of course the documenting and the recording. But I also think just to trust your, your gut, you know, your instincts. Because you know, things that I thought within the first two weeks, four weeks. Now, 11 years later, it's really coming back full circle. And it's like, you know, I was kind of right at the very beginning. I do kick myself though, because I think within the first hour, you know, I knew to call Chris and tell Chris, get his cell phone and get his keys, make sure she doesn't get anything out of the apartment. But I didn't have the instinct to document and record and all. I guess again, it comes down to that ingrained belief that law enforcement will do right, you know, that justice will prevail and it just doesn't work that way.
- [43:59]
Dennis Cooper
I forgot about that with the cell phone. I think that maybe comes out in the second or third episode, but I mean, yeah, talk about trusting your gut. I mean, it's crazy that you even thought of that in that moment.
- [44:10]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, and I guess that's what knowing the, you know, the, you know, you're, you know, in shock and you're grieving, but you're in shock really more than anything. And I can just remember immediately, like going into my closet, don't know why I went into my closet and calling Chris and saying, get down to the apartment and get his phone and get his keys. She's going to try to take his phone and she's going to try and take his keys and she did. So.
- [44:36]
Dennis Cooper
Wow, that's crazy. I forgot all about that. Yeah, that's good. Gut instinct. I vouch for that. I mean, that's always advice I give too. As far as as far as trusting your gut, it sounds so cliche or sort of meaningless, but I live by that often. Actually, it's sort of ironic. I was just talking about that where, you know, I re. Listened to the first episode and gave some commentary. I. I talked about that because in some ways that point was driven home by audio I use in the podcast of which you might have never watched it, obviously, but I used audio from the. The pastor at his funeral. And that was the title, wasn't trust your gut, but the title of the episode became trust the process because it was something he said in there and how this isn't supposed to have happened this way. It's tragic that it did. You don't have answers. You need to piece it together. And the way you do that is just one step at a time and just kind of trust the process, which to me translated in some ways is like kind of trust your gut. And yeah, I'm a firm believer in that piece of advice, for sure.
- [45:48]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, and I think that when you called me and said that you had kind of had this idea to go back and listen. I mean, I'll probably listen to this because I'd like to know some of the things that was going through Yalls head, because we didn't ever talk about that. Like, even when we had conversations, it's not like, you know, we had the conversations where you were telling me, like, maybe difficulties y' all were having in the background or, you know, behind the scenes or, you know, arguments or things that y' all might have had over what should go in and what should go out. I mean, I think all that is kind of interesting in the making of the, you know, and trying to put out something, like you said, that's, you know, fair, unbiased, but also is compelling and everything. But I was kind of interested in that because I know that I had my things, like I said, where I would fuss. I mean, they didn't put that in. And I. And that should have been in there or, you know, something bad would happen. And I remember you. It was after, like, a lot of the negative. I can't remember exactly what event it was, but something negative had happened and you had called me or text. We had some type of communication and you had said something about basically that you were probably didn't say it in this way, but basically that you were stressed out over all the, you know, you didn't expect this bunch of kind of pushback from the different people. And I can remember telling, like fussing and telling Todd. I mean, he's in Kentucky, and we are in Mississippi right here. And he's talking about being stressed. So there's a lot of. You know, there's a. Probably a lot of little. Now, that was funny, you know, at the time, it was not funny, but I think that a lot of that is probably some little backstories, you know, for sure.
- [47:41]
Dennis Cooper
I know. I can imagine. Like, the. You know, of course, I got other projects and things to tend to, so it's like, I tried to get. I really did try to like, really focus in and really get kind of lost in it and recall my memory as best as possible. But it's also a reminder in that of just, like, how hard it can be to kind of remember things the more time passes. Because, I mean, you've mentioned things on this call like that and phone calls we had and stuff that didn't even come to mind as far as, like, some of the. What do you want to call it? Some turmoil between us along the way as well. That stuff didn't come out in the podcast and didn't even come out in my reflection on it in the episode I made the other day, because it just really didn't. Nothing really stirred that thought in my mind, I guess. But, like, yeah, I mean, it was like I said a while ago in the. In this call, it was a bumpy road on in. In many, many, many ways that probably no one could really expect, but it was. I. I wasn't bluffing. It was stressful time, wasn't it? You're right. I was on a little island on my own over here. It was a little bit better there.
- [48:49]
Ray Andreacchio
I would always say. I know that I was a lot to, like, take. You know, I've always said that because I. Especially with this subject matter, you know, and so I know there were times when I was probably. Whether it was unfair or whatever, but in that moment, I was like, in protection mode. Whether that was protection of my other kids or protection of Christians or whatever. But, yeah, there were some. Yeah, we had some. I'm trying. I was trying to remember what it was.
- [49:20]
Dennis Cooper
There was definitely a time for sure. I can't remember it exactly, but there was definitely a time where I was like, oh, yeah, yeah, right.
- [49:28]
Ray Andreacchio
He's getting a little.
- [49:29]
Dennis Cooper
Writing me off. Like, I might not talk to her again. Seriously. Like, that. I had. I remember having that thought. I just can't remember what caused that. Like, what was the.
- [49:38]
Ray Andreacchio
Yeah, I lost her up there.
- [49:39]
Dennis Cooper
But, yeah, I mean, we didn't always get along. Yeah, yeah, no, not. Not at all. And like, I get it. You're in a hard position where you gotta just trust somebody 100% who can't really tell you things. And, you know, it doesn't probably help that you're didn't really feel comfortable enough listening to it. So you're also just kind of like getting bits and pieces from different things and just trying to, like, it's like playing telephone. Like, you probably weren't. You probably were imagining some things that maybe weren't even in there, you know, and so it's like, that's. Yeah, that's. That's stressful for sure. I totally get that.
- [50:14]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, now that you know that I didn't watch all of it. Yeah, I didn't listen to all of it. Yeah. So I'm reacting to, you know, Renee or Susan or somebody going, oh, well, they said I'd be like, I can't believe they put that in there anyway. But no, I don't. I'll have to go back. And I think I may have sent you one of my infamous ugly emails.
- [50:36]
Dennis Cooper
He probably did. I do think I got at least one of those along the way, for sure.
- [50:41]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, one thing about me is I blow up, and then I usually, after a while will come back around and think, you know, I was probably being a little unreasonable. Or I'll say, well, you know, it really wasn't that big of a deal. Now, you know, when this happened with Christian, I became a very controlling person when it came to as much as I could, you know, So I think in all aspects of my life, I became very controlling because you feel like, you know, if I can control things and bad things won't happen, it definitely impacts you, you know, in all areas of your life. It's not just. I mean, I'm not talking about the podcast, just going through what we've gone through. It's like you said, a ripple effect. And so it kind of. It changes your personality, it changes your relationships with people and people who can navigate this process. And it not. Then, you know, they're great people. I'll be the very first person to say that. It definitely has made me very cynical, made me very untrusting, and made me very controlling.
- [51:44]
Dennis Cooper
Well, at least you haven't aged a bit, so that's good. At least I didn't do that.
- [51:49]
Ray Andreacchio
Okay, you got your brownie points, Dennis.
- [51:55]
Dennis Cooper
No, seriously, though, I'm thankful that we're still able to talk to this day and that you. You're still entrusting me with this to some extent, and I Appreciate this, because this was a very transformative experience for me, too. And that's both in a good and bad way. You know, I got into therapy for the first time ever in my life on the tail end of this podcast.
- [52:18]
Ray Andreacchio
We drove you in. Sorry, Dennis.
- [52:20]
Dennis Cooper
No, it wasn't you. Because again, like, we really weren't, like, in cahoots like that. You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't. It was just. It was just a lot. I think more than anything, it was just the change of career and the pace of it all. If you remember, I was still working for Mark at the time, you know, in telecom. So, like, I was. This was more of a side thing. And I've always just been a person, you know, especially because Courtney and I had kids at such, you know, a young age. Like, I've always been a person of just like, you go clock in, do your nine to five, and then I clock out and put my phone on silent, and I'm just. Just present for that little stretch that we have in the evening type of thing. And so this was. I wanted to take this opportunity. We were all in on that together, but still, like, it was. It was quite an adjustment. You know, that stuff slowly piles up. But like I said, on the plus side, it's also allowed me to continue to do this work that I didn't expect to do. So I'm forever grateful for that opportunity. I mean, it really does. Like, it sounds weird, but. But, like, Christian's story changed my life, so. Yeah, I'll never take that for granted.
- [53:27]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, I think that you. You did put a lot of pressure on yourself, too. I mean, you almost could see you getting run down, which, I mean, is, again, shows your character. You put a lot of pressure on yourself to. For everything to be right, to do right by Christian, but also be fair to, you know, but most people would not have done that. They would have gone in, put some stuff together, gone home and forgot about it. But I think you took it home.
- [53:57]
Dennis Cooper
Yeah, it was a lot. I mean, you're right. I definitely. A lot of it is just putting too much pressure on myself. But a lot of that's like, again, just not really being an overly confident person. And, you know, I've always just been a people pleaser and don't really prefer to engage in conflict. And everything became so polarizing. It wasn't even necessarily like, sure, I had direct messages to me and stuff being said about me and this and that, but it was honestly less about. I think it was less that that weighed me down and more just seeing, worrying about you all. Like you said, you all are over there in it. Right. I think very much had a target on you in a lot of ways. Right. And so I think a lot of it was just building these relationships and worrying about you and just thinking about everybody's fighting, it seems like, and all everything's so polarizing and I didn't really expect that. And then, you know, you. I of course feel some culpability in that and putting it out there and sort of, I guess, stirring that pot. Though obviously that was not my intention as that's not something I like to do. And so, yeah, it was just I entered into something that wasn't really up my alley in a lot of ways in terms of like what it turned into and stuff and putting myself out there in that kind of way. But then, you know, to look at it on the flip side, I do enjoy doing it now and I've come a long way in that. I'd like to think I put less pressure on myself probably even now, too. So, yeah, it's quite a journey for sure, and I guess still is. It continues. I'll always remain in touch with you and, you know, I hope you're able to work something out with Victoria and the work she's doing and also, you know, the possibility of a documentary and stuff. And, you know, I'm obviously always here too, if you ever want to connect or put anything else out there or share information, I'm. Like you said, the lawsuits kind of made it weird to where like, we couldn't really be in communication and really talk about things. So you and I have really, like, in a lot of ways, fallen out of the loop quite a bit over the past couple years. So it really has been. Been wonderful catching up with you and, and seeing you. And you know, I love you all. I think about you all the time and stay strong, keep moving on.
- [56:15]
Ray Andreacchio
Well, we will and you know, I'm sure we'll be in touch.
- [56:26]
Host/Narrator
I really hope you enjoyed listening to this episode. It seems Ray has stayed very busy since season one wrapped, which should not come as a surprise. And I imagine there will be more updates in the near future regarding some of the things that she shared in our conversation that she's actively working on. So stay tuned for that. Speaking of updates, I have a couple more episodes to share with you in the coming weeks. Essentially, I'll be repeating what I just did, reliving season one of culpable, but this time I'll be doing it with season two. The story of Brittany Stykes, and I'll also be catching up with her sister, sister Emily, to learn what's happened in the years since that story aired. The first episode will release on July 14th, and the second will release the following week on the 21st. So please be sure to tune in for that and get yourself up to speed on past seasons of culpable before the release of season three in August. Until next time.
- [57:26]
Ray Andreacchio
Mom, dad, you should shop Amazon for back to school and save some money. See, I'm currently obsessed with superheroes and need all the superhero stuff. Superhero launch box, superhero backpack. But next year it'll be something else. Maybe dinosaurs. I don't know. I'm not a fortune teller, but I can tell you not to spend a fortune fortune and shop. Low prices for school on Amazon. K. Good chat Amazon. Spend less, smile more.