An Unreliable Witness | 6

Summary

Culpable: An Unreliable Witness | Episode 6 (September 29, 2025)

Overview

In this episode, host Dennis Cooper unpacks the crucial role of unreliable witnesses in the mysterious 1998 death of 17-year-old Danny Violette. The investigation hinges on the often contradicting and incomplete testimonies of Danny’s teenage friends, as well as the adults surrounding the case. Through a careful review of police interviews and new insights, Dennis illustrates how gaps and inconsistencies in witness statements complicated the search for truth and justice.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Concept of Culpability in Unsolved Cases

• Dennis opens the episode by discussing how culpability extends beyond the main perpetrator, encompassing anyone who impedes justice (e.g., withholding info, lying to police) ([03:31]).
  • "When dealing with an unsolved case like this, culpability isn’t just about who’s responsible for the crime... It’s also about who impeded justice and how." ([03:31])

2. The Critical Night: Acid, Friends, and a Seizure

Accounts from Danny's Friends

• Multiple interviews reconstruct the night before Danny disappeared (Oct 23rd, 1998):
  • Danny and friends (Steve, Judd, Adam, Matt) drive to Galleon to pick up acid.
  • Danny takes acid, reportedly has a bad reaction—possibly a seizure.
  • Testimonies vary wildly on details: who went where, what drugs were taken, and the physical state Danny was in.
• Initial interviews focus on minimizing involvement and obscuring facts, later interviews reveal more, but with contradictions ([07:26], [09:14], [11:33], [18:32]).

Efforts to Restrain Danny

• Matt describes attempting to restrain Danny during his reaction, expressing concern over whether to seek medical help:
  • "I told Judd, I said this, we should do this. Look at the big picture. He could have brain damage." ([11:33])
  • Judd recalls suggesting they move Danny to his house to call for help, but ultimately, no ambulance is called ([24:54]).

3. Law Enforcement’s Struggle with Unreliable Testimony

• Detectives repeatedly confront Matt and others about inconsistent stories:
  • Detective Robinson presses Matt, who maintains confusion and forgetfulness, leading detectives to label him "an unreliable witness":
  • "You would be what we would call an unreliable witness. Because you forget a lot of things, don’t you?" – Detective Robinson ([17:53])
• Law enforcement attempts multiple strategies—threats of polygraphs, logical appeals, leniency offers—to extract the truth, yet full clarity remains elusive.

4. The Role of Adults: Matt's Mother

• New revelations indicate events described as having occurred at Judd’s house actually happened at Matt's (his mother Charlotte’s) home ([30:00]).
• Charlotte’s statements are inconsistent, contradictory, and reflect a combination of self-protection, confusion, and remorse:
  • On why no ambulance was called: "I never even thought about it because I really didn’t even think about it. I really didn’t cross my mind too." ([31:25])
  • On Danny’s condition: "I know for a fact the boy was alright Saturday..." ([39:55])
  • Expresses regret over not acting differently, suggesting fear of family backlash played a role in inaction.

5. Community, Rumor, and the Shadow of Truth

• Persistent school and community rumors fuel alternate theories:
  • That Danny died in someone's house, his body subsequently transported and left in the field where he was found ([43:33]).
  • Investigator Michael Curtis and an unnamed police investigator both acknowledge that rumor and informal accounts carried weight—two drug informants independently shared the same theory of body transport ([43:33]).

6. Potential Police Missteps

• Attorney Michael Curtis comments on investigative shortcomings and the possibility of conflicts of interest within the police:
  • "There’s some people working that case that shouldn’t have worked that case ... there’s some ties that were not followed up on, that were omitted." ([41:18])
  • He speculates the case could fit an accidental death scenario (involuntary manslaughter with subsequent panicked coverup), not just homicide.

7. The Ongoing Search for Truth

• Dennis observes that the investigators' understanding of the timeline relied on people who "were not entirely forthcoming" ([39:58]).
• Even decades later, efforts to contact surviving friends meet with reluctance and silence, underscoring the enduring complexity of the case ([22:40], [23:54], [24:54]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Detective frustration with the teens:

  • "All I want is the truth." ([13:48])
  • "Why are you giving me such a hard time?" ([17:53])

• Judd, candidly, about post-seizure care:

  • "He wasn’t fine, but he was talking, walking around." ([24:54])
  • On Charlotte's hesitance to call for help: "I could see that she didn’t really want to because she was scared to get in trouble or something." ([24:54])

• Charlotte’s conflicted feelings about Danny:

  • "I loved the boy. I really did. ... I just don’t know. I wish I had. I wish I’s many things that people would do different." ([37:39], [39:58])

• Michael Curtis (attorney/investigator):

  • "When I go to Willard, I'm gonna ruffle some feathers because I’m gonna ask some tough questions that they’re not gonna like. And you know what my answer to that is? Too bad." ([41:59])

• Closing Rumor, recounted by an investigator:

  • "The rumor was that Danny had died at [Matt's] house, and ... they panicked and wrapped the body up in a carpet and took the body out to the field where they found him." ([43:33])

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Timeline of Important Segments

• 03:31 — Definition and complexities of "culpability"; challenge of lies vs. truth
• 07:26 - 10:17 — Initial reconstruction of Friday night’s acid trip and seizures
• 11:33 — Details emerge about the group restraining Danny and debate over seeking medical help
• 13:22 - 18:32 — Detectives challenge Matt on memory gaps and conflicting accounts
• 24:54 - 27:27 — Judd’s clarifying account, role of Matt’s mom, events location shift
• 30:00 - 39:55 — Charlotte (Matt’s mother) provides her account and expresses regret
• 41:17 - 42:39 — Attorney Michael Curtis critiques investigation, presents theory of accidental death and coverup
• 43:33 — Discussion of rumors, informant statements, and community knowledge about Danny’s final hours

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Tone and Atmosphere

The episode is methodical, sometimes tense—a blend of personal anguish and professional frustration. The language remains earnest and direct, with occasional moments of empathy and reflection, especially in the interviews with the teens and Charlotte.

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Conclusion

“An Unreliable Witness” underscores the crucial impact of witness honesty and memory in complex criminal cases. The episode paints a vivid picture of how fractured recollections, personal fears, and a web of silence can stall—or even permanently hinder—justice. Despite the persistent rumors and newly developed theories, the truth of what happened to Danny Violette remains maddeningly out of reach, kept alive by the lingering doubts and omissions of those who were closest to him.

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For further information, visit culpablepodcast.com or contact the Huron County Sheriff’s Office at 419-668-6912.

Next episode: Dennis teases a deeper exploration of community rumors and new investigative leads on Danny’s mysterious death.

Transcript

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[A]

You remember everything that you told me last night? Yeah. You said you rode with them over to Galleon. You didn't know why they were going to Galleon and all this stuff. If you're not the one that killed him or was there when he died, you're not in trouble.

[B]

But you lied to me.

[A]

You knew why they were going over there. No, I didn't. Why are you giving me such a hard time? I don't know if he got answered or not. I swear. And if he did, I just. I have no idea. You would be what we would call a unreliable witness. Because you forget a lot of things, don't you? You need to tell us everything. You can't just leave stuff out because you think you're gonna get in trouble. We could care less about what you did over there. We're worried about the kid that we found out in the field yesterday. Okay. All I want is the tr. Sam.

[B]

The word culpable can often be taken as a Very direct term. But in reality, it's far from it. When dealing with an unsolved case like this, culpability isn't just about who's responsible for whatever crime happened against a victim. It's also about who impeded justice and how. Be it a family member who withheld information, an officer who failed to properly investigate, or a person of interest who lied, just to name a few examples. A wise man once said that a lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is still putting its shoes on. To put this in more practical terms, as a detective, you really don't know that you're being lied to until you can prove otherwise, until you learn the truth. Establishing the truth takes time and diligence. And any lie or falsehood that comes up along the way makes it all the more difficult and in the end, can hurt the chances of there ever being justice. In Danny's case, the detectives tasked with finding the truth were, for the most part, at the mercy of a bunch of teenagers who not only found themselves in the overwhelming position of being questioned by authorities, but were also reeling from the loss of a friend, all the while wondering if a killer was walking amongst them. But regardless of all of that, detectives made it clear that in order to solve Danny's case, they need their help.

[A]

We just found naval napkin. We have to go to his friends now and try and find out who would have had a beef against him. You guys are the ones that hear more around the school than I do. If it was a young person that did this, he was going to be able to find out. But another young person, right? You guys are his friends. You guys are the only ones who are gonna be able to find out who did this.

[B]

It seems unfair to put the onus on a bunch of kids, but detectives recognize that Danny kept a tight circle of friends who happen to be even more in tune with his life than his own family. As I write this, I've watched and listened to roughly 30 of Danny's friends tell their stories, when they last saw him, where they were on the days in question, what rumors they've heard, you name it. And I gotta say, sorting through each of these to try and determine who is who and when they said it and which person's interview prompted detectives to speak to that next person has not been easy. You see, when we first started receiving these recordings, we didn't get them all at once. It was a rather long process. We also didn't receive them in any particular order, and the naming of the files didn't offer much clarity. Something I alluded to back in episodes two and three was that when I first started listening through the recordings, I quickly learned about a series of suspicious events that happened on Friday, October 23, the day before Danny went missing. That Friday night, Danny got together with a group of friendssteve, Jud, Adam, and Matt and ultimately had a bad reaction after taking some acid, which resulted in a seizure. The story around that night quickly spread amongst the locals and to this day has remained a popular theory as to how he may have died. But as I stated before, we know the events of that night did not kill Danny as he was alive the next day. We even took it a step further and spoke with experts who cast more doubt on this theory. So I really didn't expect there to be much more to discuss around the events of that Friday night leading into Saturday morning. But after receiving some more recordings from the Huron county sheriff's office, I realized there was a lot more to that story than I once thought. And for reasons we'll get into, I think it's best that we understand the full story here. Let's start by rehashing some of what the friends shared in their original interviews with detectives.

[A]

Did you see him Friday night? Yep. Did you go anyplace with him? I haven't had him. Where'd you go? Down here. What'd you do, guys? He seen a friend? Yeah, I went. Well, did you see him get anything from this kid? Not that at all. Were you aware of the fact that he went over the guy to pick up the acid? Yeah, true, but I didn't see. I didn't know anything about the accident. When was the last time you saw Danny, Violet? Saturday, October 24th. What board did you see him at? Judd Dickerson's house. He stayed at your house? Yeah. What time do you leave your house? I was sleeping when he left. Was it on Saturday or Friday? My Saturday morning. How was he when he got there? Bad. Think he was on anything? Yeah. What was he on? Acid. How do you know he was on acid? He told me.

[B]

In the interviews conducted on November 4, the same day Danny's body was discovered, detectives started to piece together the events of the two days in question. As you just heard, Matt and Adam admitted to going to galleon with Danny that Friday night, but claimed they didn't know the reason for going there. However, Jud, who didn't even make the trip with them, knew their reason for going. And furthermore, he explained that Danny was in bad shape that night after taking the acid. So right away, detectives had some indicators that they weren't getting the full story here. Then you have Steve's first interview where he gave arguably the most detailed account of the first round of interviews.

[A]

Friday night Adam and Nat went scallion. I went to Matt's about one o' clock in the morning. They were there. One old Judd Dean was acting weird. I guess he got some drug from calium. What kind of drugs did he get? Acid. Got from some guy named. That's all I know what happened then. He's like unconscious but he like just kept like moving and stuff, you know, he's like this trip. Yeah, tripping, whatever, I don't know. And the next morning he woke up and like in the afternoon, about noon or something, he could eat and talk and just you know, carrying conversations. Come out of it? Yeah, he like came out of it or something, you know. I thought he was fine. I went home to shower and I came back. Adam told me, he said Danny went home. So. So first thing I did, I called Danny's house. His mom said he took off. So he went to his home. That the Mary took off again. That would have been on Saturday. That afternoon.

[B]

After speaking with Danny's friends for the first time, detectives had at least somewhat of an understanding as to what all transpired from Friday night into Saturday morning. These accounts obviously leave a lot of room for interpretation, but here's how I understood it. Sometime Friday night, Danny convinced Adam and Matt to go to Galleon with him because he wanted to get some acid. They didn't know why he was going there or who he was getting it from, but they decided to drive with him anyways. They come back to Willard, they go to Matt's house. Sometime later in the night, Steve and Judd show up over there. At some point Danny takes some of the acid he picked up. In the wee hours of Saturday morning, the boys move from Matt's house to Judd's house. Danny starts tripping and eventually has a seizure. The symptoms subside. The boys sleep over at Judd's. By Saturday afternoon, Danny is feeling better. He leaves Judds walks home. The end. Now do me a favor, forget everything I just said as this is not the true nor the full story of what happened that night. It would take several follow up interviews before detectives could piece it all together. As the boys were called in again and pressed on various parts of their stories. Slowly they'd open up a little more.

[A]

You see they ain't taking any acid. No. You take any other? You sure? Well I. I took like enough and I told my mom about it because I seen like I was. I told my mom that I'm home the next day, I accidentally, like, do anything to me. I didn't take enough or something like that. What have two. I think it was just one or maybe a half. We should have cut it out. I just. Dan gave it to him. I didn't. Doctor. I don't know. He just gave it to me. Is there a possible. You guys tried to restrain him? Did we? Oh, yeah, we did. We tried. How'd you do that? I had both. I tried to have both of his arms, but, you know, Judd had his legs and Adam was like, you know, trying just to, you know, calm him down. We were talking to him. Real warm water on, you know. Right. But he was having a seat in the backyard. You guys could still take him to the hospital. I did. I wanted to. I told Judd, I said this, we should do this. Look at the big picture. He could have brain damage. You know, he's like, well, if we could do that, then we. Back in the ward, you know. We didn't want that either.

[B]

By the second day of the investigation, more of a picture had come into focus. But still many of the details surrounding Friday and Saturday remained unclear or inconsistent. Something else that's important to note here is that on this same day, detectives interviewed the supplier from Galleon. The interview we heard in episode three. And he provided a very detailed account of Friday night, at least the parts he could speak to. He gave names, locations, who paid for the acid, how much it cost, who rode with who, who stayed at what house, and even shared some interactions he remembered from that night, which you'll hear Detective Robinson ask Matt about in his follow up interview.

[A]

You remember everything that you told me last night? Yeah. You said you rode with them over to Galleon. Yeah. You didn't know why they were going to Galleon and all this stuff. Why did you try and buy a pill over there for $5? I didn't. Somebody's already rolled on you, okay? If you're not the one that killed him or was there when he died, you're not in trouble.

[B]

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[A]

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[A]

I did not know I was riding around with what's a What's a? You were riding around with Adam. Yeah, but you knew why they were going over there, didn't you? No, I was riding around with Adam. You can ask them. Adam knew why they were going over there. Adam might have, but I didn't.

[B]

For the better part of the interview, Matt denies having any knowledge of what why they made the trip that night so Robinson starts to get a little more specific, asking for clarification on the different towns the boys visited that night, the ones that both Adam and the supplier from Galleon mentioned in their interviews. Matt says he doesn't recognize the areas and had only ever been to Galleon once before. Then Robinson asks what went on at the house in Nevada, the one that Matt and Danny stayed at while Adam and the supplier drove to Bucyrus to pick up the acid. Matt gives somewhat of a picture, mentioning a bunch of kids drinking beer and commenting on how weird they all were, having dyed hair and painted eyebrows. Eventually, he explains that the sheriff's office showed up at the house that night, just like the supplier described in his interview. But ultimately, he suggests that he really can't say much because he and Danny stayed on the porch most of the time. Robinson calls him out on this, saying he knows that Danny primarily stayed inside the house. Matt eventually concedes, explaining that he wanted Danny to stay on the porch with him, but he didn't have a coat. After some back and forth, Robinson starts to get a little more frustrated.

[A]

Matt, why are you giving me such a hard time? I don't know if he got asked or not, I swear. And if he did, I don't know, you know, I just have no idea. You would be what we would call a unreliable witness. Because you forget a lot of things, don't you? I have a. Sometimes forget, like, last things, but I. You forget a lot of things, don't you? Yeah, but especially when they concern you. No, I. I remember everything. If something concerned me, that's when I remember everything. But you can't remember a lot of the stuff about being over and Nevada that night and exactly what happened.

[B]

Shortly after this, the tape shuts off and then picks back up. Now, with Detective McLaughlin in the room alongside Robinson, he brings the conversation back to the pill Robinson asked about earlier that Matt allegedly tried to purchase.

[A]

At any point during the proceedings, did you try to purchase some kind of cancer patient's pill, some kind of Tylenol or something like that from someone down there? Okay, I'm nervous, for real. I meant, dude, yes or no, man. I had to say no. If I was. If it was there, I'd tuck it, you know, why would I say, hey, you know, here, you want me to buy it from you? I mean, if he did, he did. I mean, we're just trying to confirm information that we get from other sources. That's it. But, you know, we're also trying to go ahead and make sure that the People that we're talking to are. Tell us the truth. When you were in that house, did you. I seen the bottle. Did you make a joke that I wanted to buy Drew P. Or can you sell me one? Maybe I could have been like, hey, you want to send me one of these pills? Okay. Did you say that that's all we want to know? Yes or no? Probably. Probably. That's all we needed. But, see, he never told me. When you first started out here, you never remembered going into that house. I know. That's. That's what. When you talk to one of us, you need to tell us everything. You can't just leave stuff out because you think you're going to get in trouble. We could care less about what you did over there. We're worried about the kid that we found out in the field yesterday.

[B]

I know this may seem irrelevant, as there's no reason to think that this pill had anything to do with Danny's death. But the thing is, I don't get the sense that detectives had any concern over that. They made it pretty clear that they were just trying to get to the bottom of what happened to Danny. And what they needed more than anything from Danny's friends, all of them, was the truth. They needed to know who they could trust. Now, I'm not going to act like these boys weren't put in a difficult situation here. I have to imagine they were in shock. They just lost a friend. Now they're getting interrogated. And they may have been conflicted about what information to share, because the reality is they made some bad choices that night. I'd like to think that if I was in their position, I'd tell the whole truth at the first opportunity. But I can't say with confidence that my teenage self would have. While Matt wasn't totally forthcoming in his first two interviews, he would be interviewed again the following day and given one last opportunity to clear up his story. This time, detectives would focus more heavily on what happened after the boys got back to Willard.

[A]

I talked to those guys again and understand that he was going to convulsions and stuff. And your guys are having a hard time trying to keep him down and all that. He was. He's acting really weird. Yeah. I wasn't at judgment to have you. Oh, you weren't there. No, I meant I was there. I was like, at my house for. We came back to my house. Uhhuh. And guys came over at your house about an hour. I had to go. I had to go out to eat with my dad. He's like, come on, you gotta come out to eat. So like, I left. I left them boys there. At your house? Yeah. And then I came back. So the guys that stayed at your house when you were gone, Steve and Danny and Adam. Yeah. Anybody else? Probably Judd. Okay. Then after a while, they went over to Judd's house. Yeah. But you didn't go. Nope. So, no, I went over there for like, a little bit and then I came home Saturday morning. He was fine. What was he. Yeah, he talked to him today. Then I went over Steve's. That Saturday morning. No, I went up to the liquor store to talk to my mom because my mom was working there. Yeah. Went up there, talked to her, and then went over Steve's. That's last time I seen him was Judge Saturday morning. So he went over to Judd's Saturday morning. Danny was there and he was up and moving around and stuff. Everybody was there and just. They were fine.

[B]

Now, if you're confused at this point, that's okay. You should be. Don't worry. I'm about to clear up everything for you soon. But first, let's discuss some of the major takeaways from Matt's final interview. For one, he still insisted that he knew nothing about the acid, despite the other friends admitting to it by this point. He also wasn't able to provide any information as to what all went on at his house. Besides having to leave for dinner momentarily while the other friends stayed behind. None of the other boys mentioned this in their interviews. Then his story picks up at Jud's house. At first, he claims he didn't go with them to Judd's. Then he makes a correction, saying he went over there for a little bit before returning home. When McLaughlin asks about the convulsions that Danny went into that night, Matt doesn't confirm or deny it. For the most part, he just repeats that Danny was acting really weird. He also tells detectives that the last time he saw Danny was Saturday morning again at Jud's house, even sharing the time, 11am which is said to be the approximate time that Danny left and walked home. However, none of the other friends confirmed him being there that morning. So what's the story here? I tried reaching out to the group myself to get a better understanding, but didn't have much success. Sadly, I learned that Adam was killed in 2016 after getting struck by a vehicle while walking. I was able to connect with Steve briefly and we exchanged a few messages, but it never really led anywhere. When I tried calling a number that was said to belong To Matt, I discovered it was no longer in service, so I instead sent him a message on Facebook and a follow up. And months later, I was still waiting on a reply. The only friend I had any luck with initially was Jud. Unfortunately, he wasn't comfortable doing an official interview for the podcast for personal reasons, but we've had several conversations since and even met up in person. His memory of that Friday and Saturday are a bit shaky after all these years, but I will say that what he can remember aligns with the story he gave detectives in his follow up interview on November 21, a couple weeks after the ones we just listened to. So rather than recount our conversations, let's instead listen to what he had to say in his final interview with Detectives.

[A]

Start all the way at the beginning. Don't. Don't leave anything out. Okay. Well, you know that they went to get that ass, right? All right, well, me and Steve met them at Matt's right when they got back. And then they went in and they took the acid in there. Who took the acid in there? Matt, Danny and Steve Natum. Okay. You were the only one of the group that did not take any food. Do you know how much Danny took? They all took the same amount. It was one and a half, two and a half, I don't remember, but they all took the same. Okay, about what time was this? 11:12, probably. Okay. And we were sitting there for probably about an hour, two hours, and that's when they just like had them seizures or whatever they were. Where in Matt's house did this happen? In Matt's bedroom. Okay. Did anybody tell anybody? Matt woke his mom up. She tried and giving him any kind of medication, try to do anything for him. Yeah, she was just talking to him, you know, like we were, and she was putting a wet rag on his head and somebody wanted to call the ambulance. You know, it wasn't like Matt's mom said, no, we're not calling the amul. She. I could see that she didn't really want to because she was scared to get in trouble or something. So I said, well, let's take him to my house and I'll call him. But when we got to my house, he was starting to come around a little bit, so I decided not to call him. Okay. And one half a block turn, he just. He wasn't like convulsing really, but he was just like laying in the yard where I showed you that. And he never opened his eyes the whole time he was doing that. His eyes stayed shut the whole time. I don't know how long. He did that for about an hour. And then he started talking to us and we made him a bed out there, but he got cold so he wouldn't go in the house. We took him in the house and, you know, he wasn't fine, but he was talking, walking around. He was like he was outside. And then you went to. You went to sleep early in the morning? About six. About six o'. Clock. And then these guys are still there. Yeah. You wake up and Danny's gone. Everybody was gone. You never saw him again? No. Saturday? Nope.

[B]

In the end, it took detectives a couple weeks and about 10 interviews to get a solid understanding of what all transpired from Frank night into Saturday morning. Judd was able to help them connect many of the dots in his last interview. But after hearing his account, detectives decided they had one more person they wanted to follow up with.

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[A]

Hello. Hey. Again. Hopefully this is the last time. Shoe. I'm feeling you. It's driving me crazy.

[B]

On November 21, 1998, detectives brought Matt's mother, Charlotte into the station for questioning, which seemed to have been prompted by information provided by Judd that same day relating to the events of Friday night. More specifically, the revelation that a large portion of that story, which they were led to believe occurred at Jud's house, actually took place at Charlotte's house. Therefore, detectives wanted an explanation for why she never mentioned this in the past. And by the sounds of it, she must have been questioned at a previous time. However, if that's the case, we receive no record of it. So for now, let's listen to what she had to say in this interview.

[A]

When these boys came back from Galleon that night, did they all come to your house? Yeah. Okay. About what time did they show up? Oh, geez. I would leave them wrong because I was. I was out too. Maybe about midnight or so, one o', clock, somewhere around there, I guess. I don't know, it was late. I was drinking, so I mean, I couldn't tell you how many was there. And it was just the friends that they usually always had. Right now we just want to go ahead and just straighten out this. This little problem that we have. We understand that Danny was going into convulsions and that he was having trouble breathing and stuff like that in Matt's room. He wasn't having convulsions. He was acting weird.

[B]

Sound familiar? What was described by Adam, Steve and Judd as convulsions or at times a seizure was described by both Matt and his mother as acting weird. A far less alarming description, which appeared to be her reasoning for not mentioning it to detectives sooner.

[A]

See, nobody told us this part before. Well, see, I just never, you know, it just was. I mean, it was fine. Saturdays a thing, you know, So, I mean, if it would happen that Friday, you know, like that Friday, I mean, that would have been, know, weird. But I mean, Saturday was walking around, you know, talking to everybody. And did you guys think about taking him to the hospital at one point? I never even thought about it because I really didn't even think about it. I really didn't cross my mind too. What time did they live here in Constant, Charles? Geez, I wouldn't know. That's what I'm saying. Because how.

[B]

How much longer?

[A]

I guess how much longer after they woke you up that they laid half hour or so because Matt was just, you know, he Was afraid to go to sleep. He said if that's what he took and make him do that he was afraid to go to sleep. So I stayed up with Matt and I had to go to work and I was like oh God. I said Matthew, I have to go to work at 10, you know. Or George, I was working at the liquor store. See that's when. When Danny come to the house hunting for Matt. I guess it must have been about 11:30. Gordon. Gordon said that, that Matt wasn't there. See Steve and Matt was up at the liquor store talking to me and Steve and you know, Matt was just. And so Gordon said, well Steve, I think it was Steve. I'm pretty sure it was Steve and Matt and Gordon said they was together out somewhere and that I guess from there he walked to his house and I guess that's when Danny, I don't know if it's his mom or dad, got into it with him or what and he took from there.

[B]

I know what she's saying here is confusing, but I want to make sure you caught the important parts. For one, she confirms that Matt stayed home that night when the rest of the group went over to Judd's house. She also says that on Saturday morning around 11:30am Danny stopped over at their house, presumably on his walk home. Which is something Matt confirmed in his interview. I just didn't play it. His father Gordon was supposedly the only one home at the time and there really wasn't much to the story. Danny was just picking up his shoes that he left over there during the chaos of the previous night. And that's said to be the last time that anyone in their family saw him.

[A]

You never saw him again? No. Stopped over again? Nope. We never seen him? No, we didn't see him at all because usually I figured he always would, you know, drive by, but we never seen him none that day. Matt said he'd seen him, you know, just, you know, I guess it'd be Saturday morning was the last time he'd seen him so. But they said he was fine. I mean he said they was. He was talking and walking and they ain't never showed up back at the house. Never? Never. I mean nobody could say he even did. I mean, cuz he wasn't there. I mean what can I say? Well, we're just hearing different, you know, that he did come back. No, he never did come back. Cuz Matt stayed in his bedroom all that time because he was still scared.

[B]

I'm not going to nitpick every part of this because frankly There were a lot of moving pieces and you can sense some nervousness on her part, which is understandable. But I do want to point out that some things seem flat out contradictory, which is problematic. For example, she says the last time Matt saw Danny was sometime Saturday morning. I would assume at Judd's house, seeing as Matt said it in his interview. She also says he wasn't home when Danny stopped in to get his shoes later that morning because he and Steve were at the liquor store where she worked. But later she claims that Matt stayed in his room all day Saturday and never left because he was scared after witnessing the events of Friday night. So which is it? Did he leave the house or not? Did he see Danny Saturday morning or not? Unfortunately, detectives would never get a clear answer out of her. But by this point in the interview, they were more concerned over why they were just now learning of all this.

[A]

Why would the boys, when they first started telling us all this, why do you think they lied and told us that all this took place at Judd's house and they never mentioned yours? Well, I don't know. I guess, see, when he was starting to act weird, they left. So, you know, I kept calling and checking to see, you know, I called down there a million times. They said, well, you know, he's doing fine. He's sitting up and he's walking and he's talking and all this. But I could not tell you where they took it at. I don't know if they took it in the car or where they took it at. I mean, that's a fact. We know where they took it. Did he take it in the car? They took it at my house. Else. Well, is it like a pill or. Or was it like when I was a kid, 16, 17, it used to be like little snoopy dog pictures, right? It's a rectangular piece of paper, usually small piece of paper, right? What do you do? You lick it? Swallow. Well, does anybody know how many he took? Who, Danny? Yeah. Yeah, We've got an idea. Cuz I always thought it was so weird his pupils would be like this big around. I mean, it looked like an owl when he looked at you. And he said, that's the medicine he's taking. And this was like every time I looked at him. And what was so weird? And I don't want to speak ill of the dead. I mean, because I loved the boy. I really did. Like a week before that, I said, matt, he kind of scares me when he looks at me. I said, I don't know if he looks like he can kill me or if he would want to try to, like, rape me, because he just. You know, when people's looking at you in a weird way, and Matt said, oh, Sid, he looks at everybody that way. But it just freaked me out. He kind of scared me, but I felt sorry for him. But he scared me. He was just a boy, but he did scare me. But I loved him to death, you know? And he knew. I mean, he knew not to try anything. I mean, but I just. It's killed me. It's hurt me so bad.

[B]

While it's easy to overlook amongst some of the strange and borderline offensive comments made about Danny here, Charlotte does start to express some remorse over what happened, suggesting that she loved Danny and mentioning how badly it hurt her after learning of his death. As the interview is wrapping up, detectives gave her one last chance to add anything to her story.

[A]

Anything else that might have happened that we should all love? Not that I can even think of. I mean. I mean, I didn't do nothing to him, G. Oh. I didn't even know they had acid. I mean, Matt never leaves the house, to tell you the truth. And, I mean, nobody can hardly ever say they see. Matt doesn't hardly go anywhere. And that's what was so surprising, that he ended up going somewhere. And it was what it led to. I mean, if I had it to do all over again, might have called the plush, the ambulance. I don't know if he was in that kind of shape to call an ambulance, but. I don't know. I would probably call his mom and dad, but they would probably just. I don't know. I mean, I can't say what they done to him, but he acted like he was afraid. He was scared to death on him because his dad had. Army guy or whatever. But were you afraid about getting beat up by his dad or something? Yeah, I thought that. I really did, though the impression I got that those two didn't belong too well. But, I mean, he's a teenager, and teenagers don't get along with parents anyways, but. Yeah, but he acted like he was really scared of his dad. But Jane. Jane's kind of different. Yeah, different. That's it. That's the words. She's a little different, but. Yeah, you know, they called me, said they're gonna send me the videos of the funeral. God, I don't need to go through that again. So. I just don't know. I wish I had. I wish I's many things that people would do different, but. I know. But I know for A fact the boy was all right Saturday. I mean, that everybody knows he's all right Saturday. Yeah, you know, I mean, he wouldn't be around walking and talking if he wasn't all right Saturday.

[B]

The irony here is that detectives didn't go into this interview questioning whether or not Danny was okay on Saturday, which is something she repeated several times over. They were concerned about his condition Friday night and why no one called an ambulance. Or at the very least, Danny's parents. And Charlotte does provide an explanation as to why she didn't call Jane and Daniel, alluding to a tumultuous relationship between them and Danny. But earlier in the interview, she chalked it up to not being that concerned over his condition, which was the excuse she gave for not sharing all this information sooner. But the other problem I have here is that we wouldn't even know about any of this if it weren't for those tapes you just heard. Throughout the several narratives found in a case file, there's no mention of Danny ever being at Matt's house that night. The trip to pick up the acid is documented. But from there, the story picks up at Jud's house, which is pretty odd. I talked about in the last episode how reporting isn't always 100% accurate. And maybe this goes to show the types of discrepancies you can have when your informants aren't entirely forthcoming. But regardless, it's a big piece of information to leave out. And when I asked Michael Curtis about the omissions and the vague, inaccurate account of what happened that Friday night, he felt it was very problematic questioning whether or not it was just a simple mistake in reporting.

[A]

I don't know how much I want.

[B]

To get into it, but there's some conflict there. Yeah, there's some people working that case.

[A]

That shouldn't have worked that case.

[B]

There's some ties that were not followed up on, that were omitted. And so I find that interesting. I became an attorney because I was a cop, and I know what cops do. And some of them are great, and.

[A]

Some of them are not.

[B]

They're just like anybody else. So pretty convenient that some of that stuff was left out of there. There's no doubt in my mind. When I go to Willard, I'm gonna ruffle some feathers because I'm gonna ask some tough questions that they're not gonna like. And you know what my answer to that is?

[A]

Too bad.

[B]

Michael's issue with Danny's case is twofold. For one, he sees a potential conflict of interest that he believes could have affected this investigation. But the other issue he has is how that conflict ties into a working theory that he and his students have started to develop, which, to my surprise, does not lean in the direction of homicide. You know, it'd be nice if I could talk to some of these kids, and I ultimately will. Like, dude, if it's an involuntary manslaughter.

[A]

That he got drunk and high and.

[B]

He did something at your house and.

[A]

You carried him out, I'm an attorney.

[B]

I'm here to tell you, like, you.

[A]

Won'T get in trouble if it was.

[B]

An accident, if he died in your house, it's involuntary manslaughter. Tampering with a dead body, by the way, statute of limitations were over 20 years ago. Nothing's going to happen to you. No charges, Nothing. So tell me what happened. While we cannot rule out a homicide at this point, I will say he might be on a scene. Something here. When we spoke with the coroner, she confirmed that Danny was strangled to death, but couldn't assert exactly how it happened or who's responsible. However, as far as crimes go, she was confident that Danny's body was moved after death. And through speaking with an investigator who worked on this case just 10 years ago, I learned that he, too, had developed a similar theory to the one Michael just expressed after hearing a rather alarming story from a confidential informant.

[A]

The rumor was that Danny had died.

[B]

At house, and that was the rumor.

[A]

They panicked and wrapped the body up in a carpet and took the body out to the field where they found him. We had a drug informant. He said it was common knowledge amongst that group that that's what occurred. But there was also a lady, and they had a statement from her. And the issue with this is, in a sense, it's hard to validate what an individual says. But then in another way, you get two drug addicts saying the same thing. That kind of, strangely enough, lends a sense of credibility to it.

[B]

That's next time.

[A]

SA.

[B]

Culpable is a production of Tenderfoot TV in partnership with Odyssey, written and hosted by Dennis Cooper. Our senior producer is John Street. Our producer is Jamie Albright. Edit, mix and sound design by Dayton Cole. You can follow us on social media. Ulpablepodcast. And lastly, if you have any information about the death of Danny Violet, please fill out the form on our website, culpablepodcast.com or contact the Huron County Sheriff's Office at 419-668-6912. A new episode of Culpable will release next Monday, but you can binge additional episodes right now ad free by subscribing to Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts or at tenderfootplus.com and Doug Limu and I.

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Crime, but you find yourself wanting more than just the surface, like those little details you normally end up googling the angles that don't make the headlines, then you should check out Seriously with Annie Elise. Annie covers everything from big updates and cases you've been following, like the Idaho Four now that the gag order's been lifted, to deep dives into cases you might not have even heard of yet. She unpacks the timelines, the connections, the wait, what moments, and even dives into topics like cults and breaking news, including the recent Tennessee quadruple homicide where a baby was found abandoned on a stranger's lawn. With over a million million weekly downloads across 11 countries, Annie has a way of telling these stories like a friend who's already gone down every rabbit hole so you can just hit play and follow along.

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