Conflict of Interest | 7

Summary

Culpable: Conflict of Interest | Episode 7 (October 6, 2025)

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Episode Overview

In this episode of Culpable, host Dennis Cooper continues the deep dive into the suspicious 1998 death of 17-year-old Danny Violette in rural Ohio. The focus shifts to allegations of conflicts of interest, the messy web of small-town relationships, and new leads that challenge long-standing theories. The episode interviews former and current investigators, analyzes redacted documents, revisits old rumors, and reveals ongoing challenges in seeking justice and closure.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. Discovery of a Conflict of Interest

• (03:36, 39:30, 42:20)
  • Michael Curtis, a criminal justice professor, expresses concern over conflicts of interest in the original investigation. He points out that individuals, particularly a local officer related to one of the last people to see Danny alive, worked the case—a clear violation of investigative neutrality, even in small towns.
  • “There are some individuals that will work in this case that should not have been worked in this case...But I will tell you that the conflict in this case is bad.” — Michael Curtis (03:36, 39:30)
  • The situation is compared to minor traffic cases where officers recuse themselves if there is a personal connection; more should have been done here in this major case.

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2. Mike White’s Unofficial Involvement & Perspective

• (07:02–16:50, 51:46)
  • Mike White, a retired police chief and criminal justice professor, was brought in (2014) to review the cold case with fresh eyes. He was not from the implicated agencies, suggesting he offered a more objective perspective.
  • Struggles to recover a complete case file, much of which was poorly stored and likely incomplete.
  • Early investigation involved missing files, redacted documents, and possible mishandling by family-connected officers.
  • Maintains skepticism about murder as the manner of death, citing lack of motive but is convinced the death involved foul play because someone moved Danny's body after death.
  • “Strangulation is not the preferred method of homicide…I Don’t see any signs of homicide.” — Mike White (10:20)
  • Trusts polygraphs as investigative tools but emphasizes factual case analysis over test results.

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3. Re-examination of Friday Night & Timeline Confusion

• (24:16–32:44)
  • The timeline of Danny’s last known hours is muddied by conflicting accounts and rumors, especially regarding the Friday night acid use and where Danny spent his final hours.
  • Charlotte (mother of Danny's friend Matt) provides an inconsistent account during a recent police follow-up, echoing confusion about the night's details and who was present.
  • Detectives highlight that Charlotte is strangely the only one to answer, “Where were you when Danny died?” immediately, referencing a night no one can pinpoint.
  • "I haven't had anybody ask me about poor old Danny like forever..." — Charlotte (21:46)
  • The theory that Danny died at Charlotte’s house stems from “multiple corroborating informants”—but is still based on unreliable, drug-involved sources.
  • “The shitty rumors ruined my family’s name.” — Matt (Danny’s friend) (34:02, quoting his message)

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4. Rumors, Informants, and the Family Connection

• (13:31–15:48, 21:16–28:44, 34:02–38:16)
  • The persistent rumors about Danny dying at Charlotte’s house are “direct admissions” from at least one informant, per Mike White, rather than mere small-town gossip—but Charlotte adamantly denies these in both contemporary and past interviews.
  • The recent follow-up interview with Charlotte reveals little new, and she feels victimized by the rumors and by the public’s suspicious eye.
  • Matt, through a written message (34:02–38:16), denounces the rumors and clarifies key details: he, Adam, and Danny obtained acid, and Danny suffered a serious health episode on Friday night, but Matt’s last encounter with Danny was at a friend’s, not Charlotte’s house.
  • Both Charlotte and Matt warn that informants were seeking to curry favor with police (including Matt’s uncle), further muddying credible lines of inquiry.

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5. Case File Omissions & Investigative Gaps

• (43:07–48:19)
  • Michael Curtis and Dennis discover that crucial details from Friday night’s events (Danny’s time at Matt’s house before Judd’s) were omitted from official records.
  • Speculation arises that these omissions may be either simple oversights or an effect of the conflict of interest.
  • “You can’t overlook this...That’s an egregious omission.” — Michael Curtis (46:37)
  • There is frustration among the review team and students that, while strides have been made, such an omission is egregious for a case of this magnitude.

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6. A New Alleged Eyewitness & Hints at the Truth

• (48:54–50:49)
  • Curtis is told a firsthand account by an informant who claims to have witnessed the event that killed Danny, placing themselves at the scene.
  • When this was presented to original investigators, the reaction was unsettlingly muted, with “silence” instead of disbelief.
  • Without corroboration or a confession, this remains only another lead, handed off to current detectives (Duncan and Gillum) for follow-up.

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7. DNA Testing: Promise and Frustration

• (51:46–53:43)
  • Efforts to pursue advanced DNA testing using preserved evidence were organized by the family with support from Curtis and investigative partners.
  • Funding and a lab were secured, but at the last moment, the release of evidence for independent testing was stonewalled, raising further questions about transparency.
  • “If it’s closed and you don’t intend to reopen it, what are you worried about?” — Michael Curtis (53:12)

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8. Where the Case Stands & What’s Next

• (53:43–54:00)
  • Host Dennis Cooper announces a follow-up interview with Matt to be released as a bonus episode, promising to share more from someone at the center of the most hotly debated moments.
  • The series finale is teased for the upcoming week, with continued hope for resolution as new leads are explored.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Conflict of Interest:
  “There’s a general conflict here...I can’t do that investigation. I’m not impartial. Now we’re talking about a possible manslaughter or homicide. There’s no freaking way that the conflict wasn’t recognized. None.” — Michael Curtis (42:20)
• On Investigative Frustration:
  “You can’t overlook this...That’s an egregious omission.” — Michael Curtis (46:37)
• On Original Detective Response:
  “There wasn’t righteous indignation...it was really silence.” — Michael Curtis, reflecting on discussing new information with the original investigators (49:51)
• On Informant Credibility:
  “But then in another way, you get two drug addicts saying the same thing…that kind of, strangely enough, lends a sense of credibility to it.” — Mike White (12:39)
• Family’s Perspective on Rumors:
  “The shitty rumors ruined my family’s name...as soon as they knew my uncle was a cop they would just somehow volunteer info about us, thinking it would help them.” — Matt (34:02)
• On the Limits of DNA Evidence:
  “If it’s closed and you don’t intend to reopen it, what are you worried about?” — Michael Curtis (53:12)

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Key Timestamps

• 03:36 / 39:30 / 42:20 – Professor Curtis on conflicts of interest and investigative neutrality
• 07:02–16:50 – Mike White’s 2014 review & struggle to obtain a complete case file
• 21:16–32:44 – Interview with Charlotte; conflicting timelines
• 34:02–38:16 – Matt’s written account; consequences of rumors
• 43:07–48:19 – Discovery of case file omissions and investigative bias
• 48:54–50:49 – Curtis on new firsthand informant account
• 51:46–53:43 – Family’s DNA testing plan meets bureaucratic resistance

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Summary for New Listeners

“Conflict of Interest” lays bare the problems endemic to small-town investigations, especially for cold cases complicated by family ties among police and witnesses. Despite persistent rumors, recent interviews and reviews reveal inconsistencies and gaps in the official record. Professor Michael Curtis and retired investigator Mike White offer both critique and cautious hope—highlighting how a combination of diligent outside review, modern DNA analysis, and possible new witness testimony could finally bring clarity. The episode is a study in how cases can drift toward resolution or remain stagnant if not handled with scrupulous objectivity and transparency.

The episode closes with announcement of a forthcoming bonus interview with Matt and a sense that, even more than 25 years later, accountability—and answers—may finally be within reach.

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For anyone with information about the case, listeners are invited to contact culpablepodcast.com or the Huron County Sheriff’s Office.

Transcript

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Wherever you get your podcasts, Culpable is.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

Released every Monday and brought to you absolutely free. But for early binge access, ad free.

[Dennis Cooper]

Listening and exclusive content, subscribe to Tenderfoot [e-mail] or on Apple Podcasts.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely those of the individuals interviewed and participating in the show and do not represent those of Tenderfoot tv. All individuals described or mentioned in the podcast should be considered innocent until found guilty in a court of law. This podcast contains subject matter such as violence, drug use, and other graphic descriptions which may not be suitable for all audiences. Listener discretion is advised.

[Michael Curtis]

There's a general conflict here. There are some individuals that will work in this case that should not have been worked in this case. I'm trying not to be overly critical, but there is direct information that was left out and is that conscious? Is it subconscious? Is it overlooking individuals because you're related to them? It blows my mind because I tell my students like this should never happen. I tell my students how great I think law enforcement is. I tell them what a great job I think they do. I tell them like they're doing the best that they can. You can't overlook this. You just can't.

[Charlotte]

Ram.

[Dennis Cooper]

When I first received Danny's case file some time ago, I remember poring over the contents of it for about a week straight. It was a lot of information to take in, so getting lost in the weeds of it felt like the best way to really understand the ins and outs of this case, the important dates and times, the various leads that detectives chased, and the countless names mentioned throughout it. On top of that, there were documents scattered amongst the mound of pages that contained redactions of certain names and places, making it all the more difficult to comprehend what exactly I was reading. As I did my rounds, I'd flag each of these pages, and as I'd gather more information, either through speaking with individuals or listening to the recordings shared by the Huron County Sheriff's Office, I'd do my best to read between the lines and fill in some of those gaps. One day, as I was skimming through the contents of the case file, I flipped to a few pages that I had flagged several months earlier. It was a narrative written by a detective in September of 2014, but this one looked different from the ones drafted by the Willard Police Department in the Huron County Sheriff's office. It had no official seal at the top of the page, no header referencing the case number. The font was different and in terms of redactions, it easily contained the most of any document. Over 100 of them and just two and a half type pages. My best guess as to why it was littered with so many black bold markings was because it seemed to contain some rather alarming accusations. Who they were about, I wasn't sure at the time. However, one thing I could glean from the narrative was that it was written by a detective named Mike White. A quick glance at his LinkedIn piqued my curiosity all the more. He wasn't affiliated with Willard or Huron County. From what I gathered at the time of Danny's death, he was working as a police chief in Monroeville, where he stayed for eight years. He also worked many years as a professor teaching criminal justice at Tiffin University, of all places, the same school Michael Curtis teaches at. Which all made me wonder what was he doing working on Danny's case in 2014 I sat down with him to try and gain a better understanding.

[Mike White]

Let me give you a little background first. I never worked for the Sheriff's office. I'm a prior police officer. I retired and went back and I worked overseas for a while and I worked some old homicide cases successfully in the past and Dane asked me to come in while I was still teaching at Tiffin University to take a look at this case. That's what I did. Took a look at the case, digested it, did some re interviews.

[Dennis Cooper]

It's important to note that when Mike started working this case in 2014, he was not a newcomer. As I mentioned before, at the time of Danny's death, Mike was the chief of police in the neighboring town of Monroeville and he also happened to be very experienced in the practice of polygraphy or lie detector test. In the early days of the investigation, the Huron County Sheriff's Office had him conduct several polygraphs which I received records of. Unfortunately, we aren't sure which individuals were tested as the names are redacted and Mike's memory escapes him all these years later. But he does maintain a solid memory of the work he did starting in 2014 when he became reacquainted with this case. This time as an investigator. Danny's case had gone unsolved for more than 15 years and Sheriff Dane Howard, now retired, asked that Mike take a look at it as a sort of last ditch effort. Of course, the first thing he had to do was try and track down Danny's case file. Which was not as easy as he hoped it would be.

[Mike White]

There was a box that we got from the dog warden's office. It wasn't from the evidence room. We went over there and there was a bunch of stuff stored there. And this was an old case and it was, you know, I mean, I want to be fair to everybody involved here. And I was never convinced that I had all the case, to be quite honest with you.

[Dennis Cooper]

When I worked there while he always questioned what files, if any, he was missing. After seeing the amount of information that we'd obtained, his suspicions were quickly confirmed. And though I didn't intend it as any sort of comfort, I explained that we feel the same way now. Like we're still missing some things here. When we met, it had been nearly 10 years since Mike worked on this case. But I was curious what all he remembered about it. Of course, the first thing that came to mind was the acid that Danny had consumed and the events of Friday night, which has somehow become an inescapable narrative at this point, despite the fact that Danny's death likely occurred the next day on Saturday.

[Mike White]

We know that Danny bought, I guess a substantial amount of LSD the night before. And we had verification from two or three other people that Danny stopped breathing the night before. I don't know if it's due to a medical condition or what, but they put him outside and he recovered that day. There's no indication that that had anything to do with his death.

[Dennis Cooper]

He's right. There's no clear indication that the acid had anything to do with Danny's death. I got Mike up to speed on the conversation I had with Dr. Scala Barnett, the coroner who performed Danny's autopsy, and informed him that while the manner of death is still undetermined to this day, we now know that the cause of death wasn't just asphyxiation, as Mike would have seen on the report years ago. Rather, Danny was strangled to death, which took him by surprise in a way. Not so much because of the cause of death itself, but rather the manner. He admits that he's always struggled to believe someone could have murdered Danny.

[Mike White]

Strangulation is not the preferred method of homicide, I can tell you that. Strangulation is a multi step process. Why kill Danny? I mean, he didn't have money. As far as I know he was well liked. We couldn't find anybody who had anything against Danny. There was no motive to kill him. You know, I've worked a lot of investigations. I have a PhD in criminal justice. I was a detective myself. I Don't see any signs of homicide.

[Dennis Cooper]

While Mike still has his doubts about this being a homicide, he says he still believes there's foul play here. Because regardless of what led up to Danny's death or who might have had a hand in it, he's always agreed with the notion that someone moved his body to the field where it was later found. And there's a few reasons he believes this, of course, the postmortem injuries being one. But he tells me what really affirmed it for him was some information shared by two informants during the course of the investigation that pertain to Charlotte, the mother of Danny's friend Matt, who you heard from in the last episode. The information these individuals provided appeared to match what was in those pages I had flagged some time ago.

[Mike White]

I'm not from Willard, but you would be surprised how many people are from the same little town in Kentucky that migrated up here to Willard. They all knew each other. They all partied together. They all bought and sold drugs together. It was one of those communities. The rumor was that Danny had died at Charlotte's while she was working at the Drive Thru. And the implication was that he died, not murdered. We spoke with a past informant, but there was also a lady, and they had a statement from her.

[Dennis Cooper]

I want to be very clear here and reiterate. Mike is not saying that she had anything to do with Danny's death. He's just saying he heard from two individuals that Danny allegedly died at her home on Saturday while she was working, and that someone then moved his body to the field, where it was later found. A story he found rather compelling, especially seeing as there were multiple people corroborating it. But at the same time, Mike admits that he was never sure just how much stock to put into it, Considering the individuals who provided this information.

[Mike White]

This inner core group of people were all drug users and some heroin addicts. And so it's hard to validate what an individual says. But then in another way, you get two drug addicts saying the same thing. That kind of, strangely enough, lends a sense of credibility to it. And it seems to make sense. There were no really defensive wounds on Danny. Danny was a wrestler. I'm sure he would have defended himself. I mean, he wasn't killed there at the site. That was a dumping site. But I don't know. I mean, there are a ton of unanswered questions. And I'm not the smartest guy in town, I can tell you that. But that was my best analysis at the time of the information that I Had the incident that occurred the night before and the two heroin users that we. We received statements from led me to the conclusion that's what occurred.

[Dennis Cooper]

Though Mike initially referred to these statements as rumors, he later clarified that the information provided was actually a direct admission made by an individual, not just your typical rumor spread by word of mouth, which obviously warranted further questioning in his mind.

[Mike White]

You know, I interviewed Charlotte. She said, yeah, I wish I hadn't told Danny never to ever come back. Otherwise he would have came back to my. She clearly was not being truthful. In my humble opinion. I confronted her with the statement from her friend and all the other evidence. Of course, Charlotte denies everything. We said, hey, we want closure on this case, and she just wouldn't do it.

[Dennis Cooper]

Mike said that while the interview only managed to raise his suspicions, ultimately nothing really came from it. His hope was to polygraph Charlotte that same day, but he claims she wouldn't consent to it. However, he told me he heard that she was later polygraphed by the bci. And after going back into the files, I found the results of a polygraph From December of 2014 signed by a different examiner. The subject's name is redacted, so there's no way of knowing who exactly the test was given to. But the pre test information says that, quote, this person denied knowing for sure who put Violet's body into that cornfield or putting Violet's body into that cornfield, and denied helping anyone move Violet's body or seeing Violet's body after he died. In the end, the results of this redacted individual's polygraph came back inconclusive.

[Mike White]

Polygraphs are only as good as the factual interpretation of the case. That would override any reading you would have on a polygraph. There's a book out there by Malcolm Gladwell. It's called speaking with strangers, where they talk about people determining whether people are telling the truth or not. And if they're CIAs or FBI or whatever, 54% is the best people can tell. So you have to depend on the factual analysis of the case. As far as the reliability of the polygraph, it depends who's given the polygraph. I mean, it's not a magical tool. It's a tool to use to come to the truth. Been doing it since 1993, and I think it's probably one of the best tools we have for an investigation, but it's how it's used.

[Dennis Cooper]

To this day. Mike can only speculate whether or not there was any merit to these informants. Claims he tells me he keeps an open mind as to what might have occurred here. And regardless of who's responsible and what exactly the crime entails, he doesn't think it's too late to solve this. In fact, he's even more optimistic now than he was back then.

[Mike White]

The quality of the investigators today is much better than it was 30 years ago. There's no doubt about it. Duncan Gillum are great. You know, Bob was great. Bob had his own niche there. I mean, he was a drug czar around here. Huron county, we have very few homicide cases, and they had two in a relatively short period of time. I just think that they just didn't know. I mean, it wasn't a drug case. It had been a drug case. Bob would have solved this thing. Someone's gonna have to come forward. I mean, it's gonna take one person to make a comment on Facebook or on something. I don't know if these people are still involved in criminality or not, but somebody gets jammed up bad enough, serious enough, that they want to make a deal. I hope there's an answer somewhere.

[Dennis Cooper]

Mike tells me he'd love nothing more than to see this case get solved. And if there was ever a time for a break in it, it would be now with all the renewed attention it's getting. He also expressed a good deal of confidence in the current investigators, Duncan and Gillum with the Huron county sheriff's office. And little did we know that these guys had already done some following up on the theory we just discussed. It actually happened shortly before our meeting, but it wasn't until well after that we received a copy of that recording. So we are working on a really old case. Bay Violet. And we were stopping by to see if you remember anything about tonight's meal. Tilapia surprise with boiled cabbage. Begin cooking steps 1 through 50 now. Are you kidding me? Making dinner shouldn't feel like doing a thousand piece puzzle. With blue apron's new one pan assemble and bake meals, the hard part's already done.

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[Charlotte]

Trying to.

[Dennis Cooper]

Are you all right?

[Charlotte]

Yeah, I'm in a wheelchair all the time.

[Dennis Cooper]

Oh, okay.

[Charlotte]

I'm sorry. Can I help you?

[Dennis Cooper]

I'm Bill Duncan from the sheriff's office in Huron County. This is Jim Gillum from the sheriff's office in Huron County. Do you want to sit down and we can just talk to you while you're sitting? No problem. You do what makes you comfortable.

[Charlotte]

Okay.

[Dennis Cooper]

All right.

[Charlotte]

There we go.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay.

[Charlotte]

All right.

[Dennis Cooper]

So how are you today?

[Charlotte]

I've never been there.

[Dennis Cooper]

In April of 2024, Detectives Duncan and Gillum with the Huron County Sheriff's office interviewed Charlotte at her home to see if they could obtain any more information related to Danny's case. I'm really not sure what prompted this interview so many years later, especially seeing as it was a closed case, but detectives did offer up at least a hint of why they were following up. So we are working on a really old case. Danny Violet. And we were stopping by Daisy, see if you remember anything about that. There's been a lot of stuff posted online lately, and your name has been sent in as a person that we should talk.

[Charlotte]

I went and had the lie detector things and everything done.

[Dennis Cooper]

Who did that? Do you remember?

[Charlotte]

Oh, God, I don't remember the guy's name. It's been a long time ago.

[Dennis Cooper]

Have you heard anything since? Way back then?

[Charlotte]

Any.

[Dennis Cooper]

Any rocks we can look under or any guilty consciences?

[Charlotte]

Was that the kid was doing that acid? Is that what it's called?

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay.

[Charlotte]

Yeah. And they said that when they found him, whenever, the next day or whatever, that he didn't have any with him. So I guess you could OD on.

[Dennis Cooper]

It maybe when first Asked about Danny, Charlotte starts in a familiar place, mentioning the acid that he'd taken and insinuating that it may have been the cause of his death, a theory we previously explored and discredited in the series. Duncan doesn't give much attention to this and instead responds rather pointedly, where were you when you. When he died?

[Charlotte]

I was at home.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay.

[Charlotte]

I mean, I was out drinking and then I was home.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay. To ask where someone was when Danny died is obviously a pretty loaded question, seeing as no one knows definitively when he died, just that it had occurred somewhere between Saturday night and the wee hours of Sunday morning, according to an entomologist. But interestingly enough, she answers the question, insisting she was out drinking and then was at home, leading Duncan to pause for a moment.

[Charlotte]

I haven't had anybody ask me about poor old Danny like forever. I knew he had a lot of problems, you know, like mental issues and stuff, but that's not all I know. Okay.

[Dennis Cooper]

Has anybody called you to talk about it or ask questions about it or.

[Charlotte]

Because they know I don't know anything. Right. Poor kid. I mean, I. I felt sorry for Jane because Jane knew my aunt growing up and. Yeah, so, I mean, I would do anything to help somebody, you know, over something like that. Their kid, you know, But I don't know. Their dad and him didn't get along. I mean, that was the only grave I heard back then, but that's the only thing I ever heard. Yeah, he didn't have a problem. He was a strange kid, God rest his soul, but he was strange. Right. I think the only thing at the end they were upsetting each other was I said, did you want a piece of pineapple upside down cake? I think that was the only thing I ever talked to him about, you know, that was it.

[Dennis Cooper]

So Charlotte tells detectives that she never had much of a relationship with Danny, referring to one specific interaction they had where she offered him a piece of cake. When asked about the rumors she heard over the years, she rattles off a few. Similar to her interview in 98, she references Danny's mental health struggles and comments that he and his father didn't get along with. At another point in the conversation, she mentions there being a cabin behind the cornfield that kids used to hang out at and that it was concerning to her how close his body was found in proximity to it. I've walked that cornfield, trudging through near swamp like conditions to get a glimpse of this so called cabin, which was pretty underwhelming. I would liken it more to a Shed. It's tiny and now dilapidated. And no one I've spoken with has ever confirmed that it was used as any sort of hangout spot. So I'm really not sure where this information came from. But detectives don't express much interest in any of these rumors and instead shift the focus back to the events of Friday night.

[Mike White]

My understanding was he was like, at.

[Dennis Cooper]

You guys house close to there.

[Mike White]

Can you walk us through, like, when was he there?

[Dennis Cooper]

What happened?

[Charlotte]

He was there that night.

[Mike White]

Who was he with?

[Charlotte]

My son.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay, which one? Sorry?

[Charlotte]

Matthew. Okay, go ahead. And Matt stayed there. I mean, I. Oh, God, I was trash. But I worked at the liquor store then. So, I mean, I come home. Matthew told me what had happened, that him and those boys was taking that stuff. Matt was scared to death because he had never taken anything. And so I said, get him out of my house. So we took him over to Dickerson's house, or Dickerson, I believe it's me. Dropped him off over there. Kidnapped his last name, time we ever seen him.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay. What was his awareness at that point? Whenever you guys took him over there.

[Charlotte]

He always act like. He always acted. I, like I said, I never really talked to him. So he was just acting like. Was it sorry to anybody? Still acting, just talking, like, just weird. Because he always talked weird.

[Dennis Cooper]

But he could like move himself. He didn't need to be carried or anything like that. He was conscious and lucid.

[Charlotte]

Yeah, I mean, he was talking to the guy.

[Dennis Cooper]

So you said you wanted him out.

[Mike White]

Of the house just because he was.

[Dennis Cooper]

Being weird and stuff. So how did that transpire? How did you guys.

[Charlotte]

When Matt said that. Because Matt was scared to death because Matt hadn't done anything ever. And I said, everybody leave. I want everybody out of the house. So everybody left.

[Mike White]

Did everybody walk? Did they ride bikes? Did they drive?

[Charlotte]

I took them over there to Dickerson's house.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay.

[Charlotte]

And then me and Matt come back home. Okay.

[Dennis Cooper]

Why was Matt so afraid?

[Charlotte]

He had never taken anything before. So he was like, you know, tripping out.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay.

[Charlotte]

So he didn't know what to do. I said, you know, just sat there because him and his dad went up to the store and ended up getting some, like some stuff at. I forget what the grocery store was called at that time, but I said, shoot, you guys can go get a camera and see him and his dad there getting, you know, they were getting like junk food and stuff, like up.

[Mike White]

At the IGA there.

[Charlotte]

No, I don't know. I think save a lot.

[Mike White]

Now, the one where.

[Dennis Cooper]

Save a letter.

[Charlotte]

What it Was called back then.

[Dennis Cooper]

Yeah.

[Charlotte]

Okay. And so Dave was up there.

[Dennis Cooper]

So after you got back to the house with Matt, did he go directly up to the store, or later on.

[Charlotte]

Like, when we come back, him and his dad went up there and got some junk food. Okay.

[Dennis Cooper]

That was the last time you saw. It's at this point in the interview that I started having trouble following along. I thought back to some of the audio I listened to from 98. In one of Matt's interviews, he mentioned that sometime after the boys returned from Galleon that Friday night, he and his father, Gordon, left the house to get some food. However, Matt specifically said they were going out to eat, which made me think of a restaurant rather than a grocery store. In this interview, Charlotte gives a similar account, but with a couple distinct differences. She tells detectives that Matt and Gordon went up to missler's Friday night to get some junk food. However, she claims this was after she returned from dropping off the boys at Judd's house, which would have been well after the store's closing hours. Of course, this could have been a mixing up of times or a separate occurrence altogether. But it's perplexing nonetheless, and ultimately, it prompts detectives to circle back to an acknowledgment that was made earlier in the interview. Can I ask a tough question without you getting mad at me? Just because it's my job? When I ask you where. Where were you when?

[Charlotte]

Oh, with the eagles. I mean, I guess. I mean, I don't know when he does.

[Dennis Cooper]

Well, I've asked, like, a dozen people that, and you're the first one that told me where they were at. Everyone else says, I don't know. I don't know when he died. But when I asked, you immediately said.

[Charlotte]

Yeah, I don't know when he died. I mean, but that's what you said when I asked him that. Not honey, I mean, that night he was alive. And then I don't know when he died. He was there at the house, alive.

[Dennis Cooper]

Did he die?

[Charlotte]

Pass. No, I swear to God. God strike me dead right now. No.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay.

[Charlotte]

I worked the next. I'm going to tell you, Charlie, if.

[Dennis Cooper]

He did, that's not trapped anymore. There is no crime that somebody could be prosecuted for in 2024 for somebody who died back in 1998. Despite their attempts to reassure her about the statute of limitations in this case, Charlotte remained steadfast, claiming she had no involvement in whatever happened to Danny, and did her best to clear up some of the confusion around the answer she provided. When asked where she was when he died insinuating that she thought detectives were referring to Friday night and later clarifying that she doesn't know the exact day he died. But detectives stand their ground and get even more direct referencing those informants that Mike White spoke on during our interview. Do you remember having a conversation with about Danny Violeta?

[Charlotte]

That's the thing. No, I never. I had never talked to that woman.

[Dennis Cooper]

Why are you so surprised when I say that?

[Charlotte]

Because what was it when it was first been told that they said I rolled him up in a oriental rug and got rid of myself?

[Dennis Cooper]

Who said that?

[Charlotte]

That was the rumor back in the day too. Now, really? Okay, I'm gonna do something that bad. I'm gonna go first person that I'm.

[Dennis Cooper]

Not a friend with. I'm.

[Charlotte]

That's what I'm gonna go tell. No.

[Dennis Cooper]

So you weren't close with her?

[Charlotte]

No. She always tried to do things to get out of jail. You know, that was her first go to, you know. But of course, she didn't like Rick, and it was Rick always arrest her. So she just thought that's what would get her out of it.

[Dennis Cooper]

So how did you find out that she said she said that about it?

[Charlotte]

I forget it. But yeah, I mean, me and her was even friends. So I don't understand why come about. So it's 10:30.

[Dennis Cooper]

You don't think. When detectives ask Charlotte how she learned of these rumors, she tells them she can't remember, which certainly could be the case. However, this also came up during my interview with Mike. And he, on the other hand, was able to offer up an explanation pointing to Charlotte's brother Rick, a former Willard police officer, who, interestingly enough, she had referred to in the buildup to that very question.

[Mike White]

I've got nothing against Rick. I think he's a great guy. But I do know that after called Charlotte, Charlotte openly said that Rick had called her and said, hey, this guy's an informant. He's working with the cops. Don't talk to him. That's the information that I received.

[Dennis Cooper]

I want to point out that even though Mike received this information while working in an official capacity, he could be wrong about this, as he admits this was simply information passed on to him by one of the informants. Informants who Charlotte claims were acting out of a conflict of interest. So there's really no way of knowing. And detectives never press her on this. Instead, they ask about her husband. Anything Gordon had anything to do with taking him out there?

[Charlotte]

No, he was at the Eagles the whole night. Oh, he was with me the whole Night. What am I thinking? Even he's up there drinking.

[Dennis Cooper]

It's really weird that you keep talking about the night he died as the. You guys weren't the Eagles. But we don't know when he died.

[Charlotte]

Yeah, that's why I told you you said that.

[Dennis Cooper]

But. But nobody else does that. We've had conversations with a bunch of people. You're the only one that says that night. Yeah, everybody else says, like, you know, two days before he disappeared or the day after he disappeared, but you keep talking about it like it's a point. You're talking about it like it was the day that he died.

[Charlotte]

Well, that's what. That's what made me think. I mean, that's what happened that night. It didn't happen that night because we were home that night. That's what I'm saying. I mean, I would know if it was at night, right?

[Dennis Cooper]

What night are you referring to? When you're saying that night, what are.

[Mike White]

You using for a reference point?

[Charlotte]

But what.

[Dennis Cooper]

What else occurred on the night that you're referencing?

[Charlotte]

The kids were there, and they went over to Dickerson's.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay, so you're referring to the night that Danny was at your house and you took him to Dickerson's. That's the night that you're referring to as.

[Charlotte]

Yeah, that's what I. That's what I thought that's what he was asking. Okay, but I know nothing happened to him then.

[Dennis Cooper]

The alibi Charlotte gives is, for the most part, consistent with what she said in her original interview back in 98. She tells detectives that she and her husband Gordon, now deceased, were out drinking at the Eagles, which was a social club that the locals frequented. However, she seems to imply that this was Friday night, not Saturday, which was the day detectives were more concerned about. So I'm really not sure what to make of this. I've always wondered if this whole theory and some of the family's confusion over their own timeline stems from the unfortunate coincidence of that near death experience Danny suffered at their home Friday night. The product of a rumor spreading to the point that it morphs into something else altogether. Like a game of telephone, where you start with one thing. Say I heard Danny had a seizure at their house. And that eventually morphs into, I heard Danny died at their house. Eventually, it gets even more detailed, like the accounts provided by those informants. Again, it's something I've had to consider, seeing as we have no definitive proof that Danny even returned to their house Saturday night, let alone that some incident occurred there resulting in his death. And to Charlotte's credit, while it may not be the most convincing interview, she never shies away from any questions.

[Charlotte]

Anything else you want to ask me, feel free to ask me. I mean. Cause I don't care. I mean, there ain't nothing to tell, though. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dennis Cooper]

And it's kind of a weird situation for us. We're not looking. We're not looking to put a case on anyone. We're just looking to get information.

[Charlotte]

Right, I understand that.

[Dennis Cooper]

The time for putting a case on somebody's long past.

[Charlotte]

So here's brain to shift in your just looking at me saying, do I trust her?

[Dennis Cooper]

But, yeah.

[Charlotte]

If there's anything else you guys want to know, just ask me. I don't care.

[Dennis Cooper]

Okay.

[Charlotte]

I mean, you go and look at, like, their information on whatever I told you. I just told you. I hate with this pop up. Oh, my God, that's terrible. But you never forget something like that. You always want to know. Yeah. So I don't know what else to say. Okay.

[Dennis Cooper]

All right. If you think of something, you got a card. We got your number.

[Charlotte]

All right. Thank you.

[Dennis Cooper]

In the end, Charlotte denies having any involvement in this. So despite Mike's theory and despite the information shared by informants, I have to assume her innocence here. I was unable to reach Charlotte myself, as was Professor Michael Curtis. So for a moment, it appeared we'd reached the end of the line with this. But then, out of nowhere, some five months after my initial attempt to reach Matt, he messaged me back. And he had a lot to say, starting with an explanation for the long delay. His message reads.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

Hey, I had a whole page a while back to send you. And my daughter called and it didn't save. I will try to do it again, but I'll keep it super short so, you know, and I can fill in whatever I can if I remember first. I freaking hate talking about this in general. And don't want my kids to hear about me doing acid. Anyways, we went to Galleon for Danny's friend, who was a complete douchebag. Starting fights, etc. With me and Adam. He takes us to this guy's house, which is the first time I saw a man wear makeup outside of television. He then takes us to a house party in Nevada. It seemed to take forever to get there. Then it's all goth people to me. Understand? I come from a small town, thought these are devil worshippers. Laugh out loud. But honestly, they probably dabbled. We wait there a long time. I beg Adam to leave. When we finally was gonna Give up. Two cookie cut out Bikers walk in. Danny's friend, the bikers, Danny and Boy George all went upstairs in which Danny's friend told me to stay downstairs. Next thing you know, we were on our way home and Danny showed us the acid, which I'll never forget. A whole page with a cherub on it, all brown like one of Michelangelo's paintings. He also had a whole page which he didn't have enough to get. We get back to my house. Danny basically lived at my house. Literally. He always came over when his dad would start with him. I told them that we are not to do it at my house. And when we got in, maybe a half hour later, my parents come in completely drunk. My dad asked me to go to the store, so I did. When I got back, Adam and Danny showed me their tongues. And although I was mad, I participated. It took me years to realize that when the acid was cut with scissors, those hits were probably triple or more, but I don't know. I swear on everything. They tried poisoning us, but I don't know. So when it started, we were laughing, etc. And about an hour, I assume went by and we noticed Danny was just laying down and we tried to wake him, like, hey man, you're supposed to be up. That's when he turned around and started to shake. We all flipped out. Never was the same. We got Danny to Judd's house and I stayed home because I couldn't deal with the acid plus everything else. I remember eating toast and showering in like five minutes as soon as the sun came up. When I got there, there were a few guys and I saw Danny standing there and I was like, thank God. But it was like the lights were on but nobody was home. His eyes seemed black, but could be the acid, I don't know. I tried getting him to talk, but he just smiled. I made him some eggs, toast and milk and made him eat. I was still flipping scared. Scared for Danny, scared for getting in trouble. My cousin came over and picked me up and I told the guys not to let him leave, but they did. I was going to bite the bullet and take him to the er. That was the very last time I saw him. This whole ordeal fucked my life up. Took me down roads no one should take. And with that, that's when all the drug addicts started. The shitty rumors ruined my family's name. As soon as they knew that my uncle was a cop, they would just somehow volunteer info about us, thinking it would help them. And I heard them all. I get that it looks suspicious that I quit hanging out with the group of friends. But after the cops drilled me, hooked me up to a polygraph, etc. They left me with PTSD to this fucking day also. No one ever would tell them anything, let alone something this horrid. They didn't know that my uncle would throw us off a bridge before anyone else. Plus the rumor the bikers came. That one scared me enough to stay home. I hate this. And when this opened back up, I saw a bunch of people talking online who have no clue but just keep spreading lies. I hope this is fine. I wrote it in a hurry.

[Dennis Cooper]

There's obviously a lot you can take away from this, especially relating to the events of Friday night and Saturday morning, which we've gone over in great detail up to this point. But to me, the biggest takeaway, or at least the biggest surprise, came near the end of his message where he referenced some of the rumors that we've touched on in this episode, ones that he claims fucked his life up in many ways. He says the rumors were offered up by drug addicts after learning of the family's connection to his Uncle Rick, who he says would, quote, throw us off a bridge, A comment I'd like to get some more clarity around amongst the countless other questions I'm still left with here. So I messaged him back and asked if he'd be willing to speak with me over the phone about this in more detail, and awaited his response. It was around the same time that I received a message from Professor Michael Curtis. Out of the blue, we hadn't spoken in some time, as I had decided to let him and his students keep their heads down for the semester to conduct their own investigation. But after the semester wrapped, he informed me that we had a few things we needed to catch up on. A meeting he recently had with someone in law enforcement, a tip that came in from an informant, and ultimately some major concerns he's having regarding this investigation.

[Michael Curtis]

There are some individuals that will work in this case that should not have been worked in this case. I am apropos to criticize law enforcement. I am always dealing with them in good faith. I believe that they're trying to do the right thing. But I will tell you that the conflict in this case is bad.

[Charlotte]

Foreign.

[Dennis Cooper]

It's Huluine on Disney plus, watch frightful family favorites like Hocus Pocus and Tim Burton's the Nightmare Before Christmas on Disney Plus. Then take the terror to 10 with.

[Mike White]

A thrilling new remake of the Hand.

[Dennis Cooper]

That Rocks the Cradle, Scream and more with Hulu' en on Disney plus All these and more screaming this hollow Halloween season with Hulu on Disney bundle subscription required 18 select Hulu content via Disney+ additional content on Hulu app terms apply. Visit disneyplus.comhulu for details.

[Charlotte]

When did making plans get this complicated? It's time to streamline with WhatsApp, the secure messaging app that brings the whole group together.

[Dennis Cooper]

Use polls to settle dinner plans.

[Charlotte]

Send event invites and pin messages. Messages so no one forgets mom 60th.

[Dennis Cooper]

And never miss a meme or milestone.

[Charlotte]

All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Dennis Cooper]

Learn [e-mail] it's okay not to be perfect with finances. Experian is your big financial friend and here to help. Did you know you can get matched with credit cards on the app? Some cards are labeled no ding decline, which means if you're not approved, they won't hurt your credit scores. Download the Experian app for free today. Applying for no ding decline cards won't.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

Hurt your credit scores.

[Dennis Cooper]

If you aren't initially approved, initial approval.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

Will result in a hard inquiry which.

[Dennis Cooper]

May impact your credit scores. All right, so first thing I just want to check in, just see how the semester went specifically with Danny's case. The fellowship catching up to speed.

[Michael Curtis]

Yeah, so I think the semester went really well. I feel like the past, you know, maybe the last couple months.

[Dennis Cooper]

At the end of the spring semester, I called Michael Curtis to discuss what all he and his students had learned since our last meeting. He told me that for the most part, he's very pleased with the work they've accomplished and the information they were able to obtain, but also sensed a bit of frustration on his part, which he didn't hesitate to speak on. Throughout our previous conversations, he'd always remained very high on Huron County's handling of Danny's case over the years. But once he and his students started to recognize the conflict of interest that's been alluded to along with some pertinent information that was seemingly left out of the case files, that's when they started to see things in a different light.

[Michael Curtis]

There's a general conflict here. There are some individuals that will work in this case that should not have been worked in this case. I don't know what happens in small towns. I work for a department that had 50 guys on it and, you know, I can tell you that, you know, my wife was rear ended by somebody else. Completely not at fault. But I was the first cop there. I immediately Stepped away from it because I can't do that report. I can't do that investigation. I'm not impartial. And we're talking about a minor fender bender here. Now we're talking about a possible manslaughter or homicide. There's no freaking way that the conflict wasn't recognized. None.

[Dennis Cooper]

The person Michael is referring to is former Willard police officer Rick Sexton, who you heard mentioned previously. Now, to be clear, as far as I know, Rick didn't conduct any interviews with a group of friends that were together from Friday night into Saturday morning, the hours leading up to Danny's disappearance and eventual death. And I wouldn't consider him a lead detective on this case or anything like that. In fact, his name isn't even seen all that often in the case file. But Michael says the problem here is that it shouldn't be in there at all, considering Danny's relation to his nephew Matt. According to the files, Rick started working on this case in 1999 after he and former lead detective Bob McLaughlin initiated a drug trafficking investigation to cut down on drugs in the Willard area, while also attempting to find information related to Danny's death. After learning of this, Michael Curtis reached out to Rick to try and set up a meeting and gain a better understanding of the work he and Bob did on this case. And to his surprise, in doing so, he managed to get a meeting with both of them, which had just occurred shortly before this conversation.

[Michael Curtis]

There's a direct correlation between the two. As a matter of fact, they wouldn't meet me without each other there. That's really weird. I'm sorry. Coming from a guy that is very confident in my abilities of what I do, why the hell would I need somebody else there with me? Generally, drug tasks are the multi jurisdictional, right? There's only county, state feds, local, city, whatever, Right. Also, I don't think the individual was directly working on that case. I think he was ancillarily working on that. I think he was making drug arrests and then asking people like, what do you know? Kind of a situation.

[Dennis Cooper]

This does appear to be a good explanation of Rick's involvement in this investigation. Again, he's mentioned very few times throughout the files. But to Michael's point, what's most troubling to me is that one of the few mentions of Rick throughout the case file was related to the arrest of a woman for drug trafficking, which later turned into a tip about Danny. This woman happened to be one of the informants that Mike White referred to in his interview. And the same One you heard mentioned again in Charlotte's interview from 2024. Which just goes to show the issue with him working on this case, especially considering the allegations that that informant made. Though, to be fair, despite all the redactions, their account is right there in the files, plain as day, with Rick's name attached to it. So this is in no way hidden information. But like Michael alluded to previously, there is other information out there related to this investigation that for some reason is not mentioned in the files. Namely the events of Friday night, which he finds alarming. If you remember, I talked about how the narratives only ever alluded to Jud's house in reference to that health scare Danny suffered. When in reality, we learned that it actually started at Matt's house. And the boys eventually moved to Judd's later in the night. The problem with this isn't that it contains some answer that could put this case to rest. It's that it's an important part to the story and should have been documented nonetheless. The trip to Galleon to pick up the acid is well documented. What happened at Jud's house is well documented. Dana returning home that next morning. And his brief encounter with Jane, which eventually led to his disappearances in there. But not this. Which, of course, could be a coincidence or, as I suggested before, a product of people not being totally forthcoming in their interviews. But still, it begs the question, why was that part of the story left out?

[Michael Curtis]

I'm trying not to be overly critical, but there is direct information that was left out. And is that conscious? Is it subconscious? Is it overlooking individuals because you're related to them? It blows my mind because I tell my students, like, this should never happen. I tell my students how great I think law enforcement is. I tell them they're doing the best that they can. You can't overlook this. You just can't. That's why I have them do that tree. Dennis, you know, we're all taught about stranger danger and all this other stuff. It does happen. What happens more often? I'm talking, like, an overwhelming majority of the time. Is it someone that you know and love and the fact that that branch of that tree was left out initially and again subsequently? They've done a wonderful job. They really have. Following up and. But, hey, look, you know, 15 years later doesn't help you. That should have been in the initial report. You should have known what he was doing before he disappeared, right? And again, maybe he was. Well, he was alive the next day, so let's move on. But still, dude, like, that's an egregious omission. And again, I struggle with saying that because, you know, I went into this interview, I was really not wanting to like them, and I. I genuinely like them. I didn't think there was anything glaring, but the fact that that wasn't put in there, I think is. It's unexplainable.

[Dennis Cooper]

He's right. You can do your best to make excuses here, but in a way, the omission really is unexplainable, even for the former investigators. Fortunately, we still managed to fill that hole and get some clarity around the events of Friday night and after. Michael and his students were able to piece together the information omitted from the files and recognize the conflict of interest here. He says it led him to dig a little deeper, and in doing so, he'd eventually meet another informant, different from the two mentioned previously, who he says offered up a pretty convincing firsthand account.

[Michael Curtis]

I think I know what happened. I was told what happened. Actually, I was told by a person that said they were present and watched it. I offered information. There were multiple people there. And by the way, that person has sensory candidate. So he initially said, I was there. I watched. He told his mother that, and then he told me after I pinned him on it, which I have this recording as well. I was there. What did he say before, during, and after it happened? And again, my question to him was he was missing for X amount of days. How do you know when it happened? Because I was there.

[Dennis Cooper]

Michael informed me that he since passed this information on to detectives Duncan and Gillum, but he also decided to bring it up during his conversation with Bob and Rick to get their reaction, which he says surprised him.

[Michael Curtis]

There wasn't righteous indignation. There wasn't like, oh, my God, no way. There's no way. It was really silence. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think I've looked at it from multiple angles and try to come to some type of logical conclusion. Now, this is some illogical things in this case, no doubt about it, but I feel pretty confident that I know it happened. Generally, people don't talk against their own interest. And if they do and when they do, it's generally considered reliable. And so could I testify that? Absolutely. Could that be admitted into evidence? Absolutely. And that's what I've been telling these guys. Like, talk to me, man, because you know what? Nothing can happen to you. We're past the statute of limitations.

[Dennis Cooper]

Michael attempted to contact the various individuals that the informant referred to in his story, but unfortunately didn't have any luck as he alluded to before. Without a confession or some major break in this investigation, the information he's obtained won't amount to much because at the end of the day, there's no concrete evidence linking anyone to a crime here. So for now, this lead is in the hands of the Huron County Sheriff's office to follow up on. And we'll have to wait and see if it leads to anything more. But in the meantime, there is one other avenue worth exploring here that could also help lead to resolution. Something we talked about all the way back in episode four, that long list of evidence that's been preserved over the years. When I spoke with Dr. Scalabarnette about this some time ago, she encouraged us to make it a focus. From your experience, how does this case get solved if the evidence is still available?

[Michael Curtis]

It takes less now to develop a.

[Dennis Cooper]

DNA profile than it did 25 years ago.

[Michael Curtis]

I don't think that's been exhausted. Now, is that a deal breaker? I don't know, but it might give you more information.

[Dennis Cooper]

Let's say we have all those things. We have rectal swab that can be tested or the semen, and we have fingernail clippings. Is there, like, a specific, say, organization that you would recommend looking into for further testing?

[Michael Curtis]

Well, it has to be a laboratory that is certified. First of all, you don't want junk science here.

[Charlotte]

My stand has always been knowledge is power.

[Michael Curtis]

The more knowledge you have, the more equipped you are to make a scientific decision.

[Dennis Cooper]

Months after my conversation with Dr. Scallop Barnett, I was thrilled to learn that the Violets had taken her advice and ran with it. In fact, it was a joint effort between the family, Danielle and Michael Curtis. Together, they found an accredited lab willing to do the testing and even raise the money to fund it. But to all of our surprise, just when everything seemed to be moving in the right direction, it would turn into yet another obstacle in our collective efforts to bring resolution to Danny's case.

[Michael Curtis]

I was so optimistic, Dennis. I was telling people, like, man, we are so close. So close. My question, if it's closed, if we're not going to get a judicial remedy, why withhold it without paying for it? There's no exposure for you. We have the check written ready to go. If it's closed and you don't intend to reopen it, what are you worried about?

[Dennis Cooper]

That's next time. Before we roll the credits, I have just one quick announcement for you regarding an upcoming bonus episode. As you may have picked up on the nature of these stories we tell and the investigations we carry out are often happening in real time, which means sometimes we receive information or have a conversation a little later than we'd hoped, either after a certain episode releases or even after an entire series has released. That said, we always try our best to share any important updates we receive in a timely manner to keep you, the listeners, informed and up to speed. Earlier in this episode, I mentioned that while we were in the process of making it, I received a long awaited message from Danny's friend Matt which I went on to share. I also noted that I had responded to him and asked if we could speak over the phone and unfortunately, due to the timing of things, I had to leave it at that. Well, I'm happy to say that shortly after we wrapped production on episode seven, I heard back from Matt and we got a chance to speak over the phone and discussed a variety of questions and concerns that have been raised throughout the podcast. I've decided to release our conversation as a bonus episode that will drop tomorrow, Tuesday, October 7th. So please be sure to tune in for that. And be sure to tune in for episode eight, our conclusion to the series, on Monday, October 13th. That's all I got for you.

[Michael Curtis]

Here we have the Limu Emu in.

[Dennis Cooper]

Its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual.

[Michael Curtis]

Fascinating.

[Dennis Cooper]

It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Uh, limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us.

[Michael Curtis]

Cut the camera.

[Mike White]

They see us.

[Dennis Cooper]

Only pay for what you [e-mail] Liberty.

[Charlotte]

Liberty Liberty Liberty Savings Ferry Unwritten by.

[Mike White]

Liberty Mutual Insurance Company and affiliates excludes.

[Dennis Cooper]

Massachusetts.

[Michael Curtis]

In early 1988, federal agents raced to track down the gang they suspect of importing millions of dollars worth of.

[Dennis Cooper]

Heroin into New York from Asia.

[Mike White]

We had 30 agents ready to go with shotguns and rifles and you name it.

[Dennis Cooper]

But what they find is not what they expected. Basically, your stay at home moms were.

[Mike White]

Picking up these large amounts of heroin.

[Charlotte]

They go, is this your daughter? I said, yes. They go, oh, you may not see.

[Dennis Cooper]

Her for like 25 years. Caught between a federal investigation and the violent gang who recruited them, the women must decide who they're willing to protect and who they dare to betray. Once I saw the gun, I tried.

[Mike White]

To take his hand and I saw.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

The flash of light.

[Michael Curtis]

Listen to the Chinatown Sting. Wherever you get your podcasts.

[Dennis Cooper]

Culpable is.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

A production of Tenderfoot TV in partnership with Odyssey. Written and hosted by Dennis Cooper.

[Dennis Cooper]

Our senior producer is John Street. Our producer is Jamie Albright.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

Edit, mix and sound design by Dayton Cole.

[Dennis Cooper]

You can Follow us on social media.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

Ulpablepodcast and lastly, if you have any information about the death of Danny Violet, please fill out the form on our.

[Dennis Cooper]

Website culpablepodcast.com or contact the Huron County Sheriff's Office at 419-668-6912. A new episode of Culpable will release next Monday, but you can binge additional.

[Detectives Duncan and Gillum]

Episodes right now ad free by subscribing.

[Dennis Cooper]

To Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts or at tenderfootplus.com.