Culpable Podcast: Live from CrimeCon 2024

Guests: Payne Lindsey (Up and Vanished), Dennis Cooper (Culpable), Liam Luxon (Status Untraced)
Date: June 26, 2024
Host: John Street (Tenderfoot TV)

Main Theme – Exploring True Crime Storytelling and Authenticity

This live episode brings together leading first-time true crime podcast creators to discuss what drives them to investigate unresolved cases, their creative journeys, challenges with moral responsibility, and how they define “success” in the genre. Drawing from their personal experiences launching chart-topping podcasts—Up and Vanished, Culpable, and Status Untraced—the conversation delves into motivation, methodology, emotional toll, and the evolving impact of their work.

1. Opening & Setting the Scene (01:53–03:21)

• The panel gathers at the Gaylord Opryland during CrimeCon 2024, reflecting on the surreal, almost biodome-like atmosphere of the venue.
  • Payne Lindsey: “It reminds me of [Biodome] where it's a pretend outside and for a moment, the illusion can trick you… There's a waterfall. But I don't think you can spend more than three days in here without completely losing your mind.” (02:13)

2. Introducing the Podcasters & Their Projects (03:21–05:18)

• Liam Luxon introduces Status Untraced—the story of missing survivalist Justin Alexander Shetler, the investigation into his suspicious disappearance, and the convictions and complications that ensued.

  • “He was an extremely trained survivalist. One of the last things he ever said was, ‘I should be back mid September. If I'm not back by then, don't come looking for me.’ And then disappeared soon afterwards.” (03:33)

• Dennis Cooper gives background on Culpable: Season one covers Christian Andreacchio’s suspicious death, season two investigates Brittany Stykes’ roadside homicide, and current efforts are focused on one-episode case reviews with a forthcoming Season 3.

  • “I've always been into true crime. My parents were both into it. So it was always on the TV growing up.” (08:55)

3. Entry into True Crime and Personal Motivations (05:18–10:27)

• Payne Lindsey describes fascination with “unsolved mysteries” as a kid, being driven by the need to know “who the hell did it,” and emphasizes curiosity as the main motivator.

  • “It's always been about solving a mystery and telling that story… you get this little curiosity bug in your brain going.” (05:31)
  • “I think people are curious. They want to know why people do fucked up shit and they want to learn from it. And it's okay to have a little bit of a morbid curiosity.” (07:51)

• Liam Luxon relates his drive to the personal resonance he felt with Justin’s adventurous life—the subject of Status Untraced.

  • “I'd always aspired to do things like that… so to me, it was kind of like that childhood hero that I grew up wanting to be.” (08:28)

• Dennis Cooper: True crime as a constant backdrop at home, fed by family interests, though he didn’t anticipate a career in it.

  • “You find that story and your heart's just in it… you just want to get answers.” (09:18)

4. Choosing Podcasting as the Medium (10:27–16:49)

• Payne Lindsey recounts discovering Serial while broke and craving to tell real, engaging stories with minimal resources—choosing podcasting over film for its accessibility and personal impact.

  • “I never imagined how enthralled and compelled I could be by an audio show the way that Serial season one did for me.” (11:18)
  • “I just had the crazy idea… I'm going to go find a case in my home state and go put together a true crime podcast about it.” (11:47)

• Liam Luxon reflects on audio’s immersive quality and its circumstantial accessibility:

  • “Audio only allows you to… put yourself in [the listener’s] head so they're in the same adventure as you are… you're kind of there with them.” (13:34)

• Dennis Cooper sees podcasting as more “feasible” than film. He credits Up and Vanished and Serial as inspirations, describing how their amateur yet passionate approach encouraged him to take the leap.

  • “I probably don't make Culpable unless I listen to Up and Vanished.” (15:56)

5. Authenticity, Amateurism, and Listener Connection (17:51–23:20)

• Payne Lindsey highlights the intimacy of true crime podcasts—listeners feel like they know the host, fostering unique trust and engagement.

  • “You start to follow along… I felt that way with Sarah Koenig. I don’t know her, but if I ever met her, I’d be like, oh my God… I feel like I know you.” (18:15)
  • “I just kind of leaned more into, you know, peeling the curtain back… I don’t have the credentials. Maybe that's what's kind of interesting about this.” (19:29)

• The panel resonates with the power of relatable, non-expert creators in podcasting, citing Don’t Fuck with Cats as proof that “none of them had any business doing that,” but nevertheless found something unique. (21:02)

• Authenticity and self-doubt—how jumping in with genuine intent, even feeling unqualified, can foster meaningful work.

  • Dennis Cooper: “I shouldn’t have been the one doing it. Right. But I found something I loved… Most fun I’ve ever had doing work… most meaning that I’ve put into work.” (22:35)

6. Challenges: What Keeps Them Up at Night (23:33–28:37)

• Payne Lindsey: The hardest part is the emotional/psychological side: understanding human nature, getting people to open up (“How do I bypass the obvious ‘fuck you, I don’t want to talk to you’?”), and maintaining a drive to truly find answers, not just retell tragedy.

  • “If I ever feel like that’s all I can do, then I’m probably out.” (25:08)
  • “I want to have a pulse and a thumb on the persons of interest, because most of the time… that’s what police haven’t been doing.” (25:09)

• Liam Luxon: Balancing thoroughness and sensitivity—honoring Justin’s legacy and striving to be accurate weighs constantly.

  • “Was finding a way to accurately tell the story and the findings while also honoring Justin's legacy… that for me was the thing that I constantly was thinking about.” (26:15)

• Dennis Cooper: Self-critique and learning curve (‘I should’ve asked that earlier,’ ‘did I sound like an idiot?’), but less anxiety now as experience, team support, and confidence grow.

  • “Compared to making season one, I didn’t know what the fuck I was doing. I didn’t have the resources I have now. Like, I probably shaved years off my life working season one.” (28:17)

7. Moral Compass and Responsibility (29:04–35:15)

• Payne Lindsey: The anchor for ethical decisions is the victim’s family—if they feel okay about the podcaster’s approach and actions, that guides his sense of right and wrong. Staying transparent and prioritizing the family's pursuit of answers above all.

  • “There's a family out there who either doesn't know what happened to their loved one… As long as I’m not breaking any laws and they feel okay about what I'm doing, then… all the other stuff I add is just my own 2 cents and my own opinion and my own moral compass.” (29:16)
  • “If they’re upset with me, I probably did something wrong.” (29:54)

• Liam Luxon & Dennis Cooper: Echo prioritizing the family and the victim—dedicating themselves to finding answers the family lacks.

  • Luxon: “That to me, that's the… contract that we sign with them… we're going to put… everything we can into figuring out what you haven't been able to figure out yet.” (31:21)
  • Cooper: “None of us can truly put ourselves in their shoes. But we can do our best and be compassionate… That's always been at the center of what I wanted to do.” (32:31)

• The importance of listening to whomever becomes the “family,” since different relatives/friends may be the truth’s main seeker.

  • Payne Lindsey: “Family doesn't necessarily have to definitively mean mom and dad. Sometimes it’s a cousin, sister, best friend… whoever that person is in their life or persons and aligning with that.” (34:09)

8. Balancing Compassion with Investigation (Listening to Grief) (37:39–42:25)

• The podcasters stress the importance of deep listening to families’ grief—not rushing into interrogation but building understanding and trust.

  • Payne Lindsey: “They’re sharing their emotions and you’re just listening… I’m not necessarily there to console them. I’m there to listen and understand so I can take that information.” (38:08)
  • “I think that is really at the core, that's it… it's not the Payne Lindsay show. It's, like, holy shit, this person is unpacking traumatic events. And I'm just here… listening.” (39:48)

• Liam Luxon: True understanding takes time and many conversations; only after several talks did he approach the actual disappearance details in Status Untraced.

  • “It's not one conversation. It's many conversations… we had done a lot… before we ever really got into… the specifics of Justin's disappearance.” (40:13)

• Dennis Cooper: Echoes listening and time investment; families often open up over time, revealing harder truths only after trust is built.

  • “Ideally, I'd like to shed a tear with them at some point.” (41:27)

9. Defining Success as a Creator (43:39–48:58)

• Payne Lindsey: Success is self-defined and changes over time; fulfillment now comes from the creative freedom to chase stories his own way, regardless of downloads/rankings.

  • “The benchmark for success in really anything is what you determine it to be… Being able to keep pushing myself… that's the dream.” (43:39)

• Liam Luxon: Emotional impact on the victim’s family and inspiring listeners—he recalls when Justin’s father and friend reached out in tears of appreciation.

  • “The dad and one of the best… friends had binged the whole show and called me… happy tears, sad tears. That, to me, was the most… point of the show.” (47:01)
  • “I hope other people will end up finding the same thing, because I think Justin… his goal was to leave people and to inspire people… I hope that translates.” (48:12)

• Dennis Cooper: After years of unfulfilling jobs, simply doing meaningful work that matters is his current benchmark.

  • “I did work that I did not like doing for 15 years of my life. So to be able to, like, do this as my work… that's my benchmark.” (48:16)

Notable Quotes & Moments:

• Payne Lindsey (On podcasting): "You know, there's a more personal side of… I'm listening to this person talk about whatever this unsolved crime into my ears and you start to follow along…" (18:15)
• Dennis Cooper (On authenticity): "None of my career up to that point was anything remotely close to that field… but I found something I loved." (22:35)
• Liam Luxon (On focus): "Constantly, like, I would go to… bed [asking] am I doing a good job of that always. Because I think that for me was the thing that I constantly was thinking about." (26:15)
• Payne Lindsey (On family focus): "As long as I'm not breaking any laws and they feel okay about what I'm doing, then… all the other stuff I add is just my own 2 cents." (29:16)
• Dennis Cooper (On growth): "Now where I'm at, like, it's just so much more of a breeze… I've matured into the role." (28:37)
• Payne Lindsey (On success): "Your benchmark for success is a thing that you create for yourself that can evolve over time." (43:39)
• Liam Luxon (On emotional feedback): "The dad and one of [Justin’s] best friends… called me and were like… happy tears, sad tears… that was the point of the show." (47:01)

Episode Timestamps for Key Segments

• Venue, Conference Banter: 01:53–03:21
• Podcaster & Show Introductions: 03:21–05:18
• Why True Crime? Personal Journeys: 05:18–10:27
• Why Podcasting vs. Film: 10:27–16:49
• Authenticity & Breaking In: 17:51–23:20
• What Keeps You Up at Night?: 23:33–28:37
• Moral Compass & Responsibility: 29:04–35:15
• Listening to Grief, Building Trust: 37:39–42:25
• Defining Success: 43:39–48:58

Takeaways

This conversation reveals the humanity behind true crime podcasting: relentless curiosity, learning by doing, a deep sense of responsibility to victims’ families, and an evolving definition of success grounded not in stats but in meaning and impact.

For new listeners, this discussion is an intimate portrait of what drives leading true crime podcasters—and why their stories resonate far beyond the mystery itself.