Michael Curtis (3:26)

Being a detective is hard work. It's attention to detail. It's noticing things. You're there after everything happens. You're not there when it happens. These guys did a good job. They did a good job despite the fact that they kind of had their hands tied. Like, we're still at an undetermined death at this point. That's bullshit.

Dennis Cooper (3:48)

So do you feel pretty confident that if the cause of death had been ruled differently, that it would be in.

Chad (3:53)

A different place right now?

Michael Curtis (3:54)

Absolutely. These guys are only going to work what they can work. They still chased leads down, they still did a good job. But at some point, it's going to be like, I have all these other cases, dude. Now give these guys credit. They weren't neglectful in their duties. They ran with it as a homicide. But at the end of the day, like, if you don't have the corner, this is a homicide, you're way behind.

Dennis Cooper (4:57)

You got that?

Chad (4:58)

Yeah.

Malia Whaley (5:07)

Hey, you guys here? Alrighty. We'll have you guys come inside in just a second. They're meeting their teams today, so we're just about to release them all inside. So as soon as they're all inside, I'll, like, bring you in.

Dennis Cooper (5:19)

Okay.

Malia Whaley (5:20)

I'm so sorry. It's a crowded at the moment.

Dennis Cooper (5:22)

Oh, no worries at all.

Malia Whaley (5:23)

And I don't want you to drag your equipment through a bunch of kids.

Dennis Cooper (5:26)

Having a guide is nice. Hi, I'm Dennis.

Malia Whaley (5:29)

I'm Malia. Nice to meet you, Malia.

Dennis Cooper (5:31)

Yes, nice to meet you too. This is John, one of my producers. My other producer, Dayton here.

Malia Whaley (5:35)

Nice to meet you.

Dennis Cooper (5:36)

Our second visit to Tiffin University feels much livelier than the first. When we met with Dr. Michael Curtis. Months ago, this place was a ghost town. But from the mass of students standing outside the Cold case fellowship, it's evident that school is officially back in session.

Michael Curtis (5:52)

How you guys doing?

Chad (5:52)

Good. How you doing?

Michael Curtis (5:53)

Good. Mike Curtis.

Dennis Cooper (5:55)

Nice to see you again. Nice to see you. Nice to see you. Sorry, my hands are full.

Michael Curtis (5:57)

That's right, I see you. Sorry, we're just getting organized here.

Dennis Cooper (6:01)

Oh, we're good. Good.

Michael Curtis (6:01)

Yeah, we're just releasing freshmen today. So we had 30 freshmen come in. They've been in training for eight weeks now. They're being released to their teams and their mentors. We have some transfers too, so not all freshmen. We had a draft this morning and now we're jumping in. This specifically that I think that you should target.

Dennis Cooper (6:25)

The freshmen are all led by what he refers to as mentors, seasoned vets of the program tasked with leading small groups of their peers. Michael tells me that two of his mentors, Claire and Malia, have become very familiar with Danny's case. After spending some time in the summer working on it with high school students at a cold case camp that Tiffin hosts each year. Now they're ready to lead the freshman here at the fellowship. So are you all going to focus on multiple cases in here today then?

Michael Curtis (6:51)

Yeah, three cases that we're focusing on.

Dennis Cooper (6:53)

Okay, cool.

Michael Curtis (6:53)

By the way, I don't mean to be a dick, but all of you guys have to sign a non disclosure agreement. Yeah, because I'm going to be talking about the three cases.

Dennis Cooper (7:01)

Sure, we'll do. So hand them over whenever. We'll get.

Michael Curtis (7:04)

They're right there. All right, hey, listen up now. Mentors, go to your tables.

Dennis Cooper (7:12)

There's a clear level of respect between Michael and his students.

Chad (7:15)

All right?

Dennis Cooper (7:15)

So having been a college student before, I know that not all professors have this kind of command over their classes. But when he speaks, they listen.

Michael Curtis (7:24)

Freshmen, your mentors are your mentors for a reason. They've been here. They know what they're doing. They're smart. They've proven themselves. So you will do what you're told when you're told to do it by your mentors. If you have an issue, I'd better not hear it. So, mentors, that shit's on you. Control your group. If there's person conflicts, tough, that's life. If you don't like each other, tough, that's life. Can't choose your boss. Can't choose who you work with. So welcome to leadership, guys. All right, so what are we doing first? Victimology. Right. So all of you have your victim one week from now. I expect you to have as much information as as humanly possible on your victim, lifestyle, where they work, associates. Right? Once we do that, we'll build our trees. Everybody understand the assignment? Go.

Dennis Cooper (8:26)

As he dismisses the students to their designated tables, they waste no time getting to work for the most part. Heads are down, scanning through large piles of documents. Looking up every now and then to ask a question or listen to their mentors give out instruction. It's quite a sight to see. I don't think this kind of thing existed when I was in college. Like Michael said in our first meeting, I too would have killed to be a part of something like this. Figuratively speaking.

Chad (8:52)

Yeah.

Dennis Cooper (8:52)

Let's start over here at Malia's table, I guess, since we've already moved. Huh? What's going on over here?

Malia Whaley (8:58)

Nothing much. We're just looking through our victimology. So we're just kind of trying to see into Danny's life and figure out what could have happened, maybe what his mindset was and figure out maybe what he did the days leading up to what had happened. And then after our victimology, we'll probably start going to into some suspect ology. So we're just kind of going through our big case files and figuring that kind of stuff out.

Dennis Cooper (9:26)

Awesome. Very cool. Saw yalls first time in class today.

Michael Curtis (9:31)

First time, like reading the case first time.

Dennis Cooper (9:34)

As you can tell, the students are a little bit behind us, having just got their hands on the case file. But seeing their passion, I imagine they'll catch up in no time. Today they'll learn that their victim was a rather complicated individual. And as they get into the depths of the investigation, they'll learn that his case is equally complicated.

Malia Whaley (9:51)

You have a list of friends. You have some different personalities. He was often very rebellious, popular wrestler. He was manic depressive, so he ran away from home often, obviously experimented with some different drugs. He didn't like the way his medication made him feel when he took it, so he would self medicate things like lsd. So we have a start. So I want you guys to look through the information.

Dennis Cooper (10:15)

For an hour, we bounced from one table to the next, speaking with students about various things, from their initial thoughts on Danny's case to their reasons for joining the Cold Case Fellowship and where they hope to go from here. And I gotta say, spending time with these students gave me a sense of hope, confidence, even, that we'll see many more cold cases solved in the future. Hopefully Danny's will be the next. After a brief huddle, Michael dismisses class for the day and the dust in the room settles. But the two mentors I mentioned earlier were kind enough to put in some overtime so that we could talk a little more in depth and in a much quieter setting.

Malia Whaley (10:52)

I'm Malia Whaley. I'm a sophomore here at tiffin. I'm Claire Campbell and I'm a junior at Tiffin University. What led me to Tiffin, honestly, was the major, because nowhere else in Ohio really has forensic psychology as a major. And the college is just so small. It's really nice to have a smaller campus. It gives a interpersonal feel. And I just so happened to stumble upon the program one day and thought it sounded really cool. I pulled out an essay out of nowhere and submitted it, got an interview, and eventually got in. And it's been, you know, the best experience since. My story's gonna sound pretty similar to hers, because forensic psychology is very rare to find as a major at a college. I think my mom was the one who found it while she was just searching for colleges. And then I came across Cold Case, and I'm like, whoa, this sounds really cool. And I ended up going to, like, the open house, and I did the essay and the interviews, and it's worked out great since.

Dennis Cooper (11:57)

While Malia and Claire are both focusing on the same major, Forensic psychology. That's only scratching the surface of what Tiffin has to offer under the banner of criminal justice. And the Cold Case Fellowship is just the icing on the cake. A way for students to work real unsolved cases and hone their skills as a detective, a forensic expert, you name it. But these mentors keep a full plate outside of here amongst their daily courses. They're also on the board for the Ohio Innocence Project, where they help raise awareness for wrongful convictions in the state, as well as the Criminal Justice Club here on campus. But the fellowship has been a special experience that they don't take for granted. What's it been like learning under Professor Curtis here?

Malia Whaley (12:41)

I've enjoyed it. I really have. It brings a new experience, something I don't think I've ever really thought I would get the chance to do. And it's great working under him, and it's great being in classes with him as well. I've had him for two of my classes. I'm in one of his classes right now for criminal procedures. And just seeing him talk and hold himself, it's something I want to be able to do eventually. I've only worked with Dr. Curtis in the program. I've never had him in any classes, but it has truly been an incredible experience. I remember when I came in here for the first time as a first year a mentee, and he just tried to intimidate you and tough guy Persona type deal. And now it's completely different because we've all built this bond together. After spending so much time and so so many hours Just in this room, working on these cases.

Michael Curtis (13:39)

I'm also very demanding. You all heard me talk earlier. That's how I talk every day. I don't treat them with kid gloves. I talk to them like they're all big people. I will not compromise on any issue. They're going to do what I tell them to do when I tell them to do it, and they're going to be accountable because that's what's going to happen to them when they leave here. And so what they wanted to say was, I'm difficult, I'm demanding. I don't compromise. But we have fun.

Dennis Cooper (14:15)

The fellowship offers a unique, immersive learning experience that you can't find at just any university. It's a balance of work and fun. Mostly work, though, because at the end of the day, these are real lives and real cases, to use Michael's words. The students have to take this shit seriously. To thoroughly investigate a case, it takes hours and hours of dedication. And the fellowship takes on multiple cases each semester, so Danny's isn't the only one they're managing. But it will be Malia and Claire's.

Malia Whaley (14:43)

Focus this year for his case in general. My goal would be to at least find one more lead, something maybe they haven't uncovered before, maybe getting somebody to step forward, to say something, to at least bring it a little closer to being able to be solved. I mean, solving it would be great, but just anything that could put attention back onto this case, anything that they missed, anything that they didn't acknowledge. And we can take it further from there.

Dennis Cooper (15:15)

For these mentors, it's not just about the thrill of investigating these cases or even the education that comes from it. Sure, that's a big part of why they signed up, but really, it's deeper than that. These students aren't doing this work solely for their own benefit. They're doing it for the victims, their families, and even the investigative agencies. Here's how their professor puts it.

Michael Curtis (15:36)

We are an independent investigative branch, but our goal is to take this case. It's not revisionist history. It's not hindsight 20 20. It's fresh eyes, fresh perspective, and to develop new leads to pass on to these agencies to follow up on. If they're going to give me that case, I want to give them something back.

Dennis Cooper (15:59)

As I've alluded to before, Danny's case presents many challenges. For one, it's gone unsolved for over 25 years now. But the real challenge is that when you look at all the evidence and the body of investigative work, the possibilities really can seem endless.

Malia Whaley (16:15)

There are definitely certain red flags, both with people or the body itself. Certain things that don't quite add up and make a perfect story of what occurred. Which makes it hard because it opens up all these doorways to so many different possibilities that you could explore. And then all the different rumors and everything that we have to sift through, all the hearsay we're just gonna have to go through, check every door, and hopefully soon we can find the door that'll open some more opportunities and start leading us the right way. Buying a car in Carvana was so easy, I was able to finance it through them. I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance? Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget. That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy. Finance financed, done, and I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow. Financed, right?

Dennis Cooper (17:21)

That's what they said.

Malia Whaley (17:22)

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Dennis Cooper (17:32)

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Malia Whaley (18:35)

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Dennis Cooper (18:43)

From building pillow forts to building a.

Malia Whaley (18:45)

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Dennis Cooper (19:06)

It'S been so cool to see this evolution. All of a sudden there's this university working on it and all these students that are passionate about it. It's just, it's really cool. So I really appreciate you all being a part of this and wish you the best success.

Malia Whaley (19:19)

Thank you.

Dennis Cooper (19:20)

Yes, thank you so much.

Michael Curtis (19:21)

And listen you guys, if you're hungry, let's go.

Dennis Cooper (19:25)

After our visit to Tiffin University I decided to go back to the drawing board and get into the case files just like the students there are doing. As Michael said before in reference to how they approach their cases, you gotta first know your victim, their lifestyle, who they associated with, which I feel we have a pretty good grasp of at this point. From there you start to narrow down your timeline in order to understand the victim's last moves and anyone they may have encountered in the hours leading up to their death. Alright John, let's get our timeline of Saturday straight here because yeah, it's very confusing. Yeah, super confusing man. And the bad part about that is it's incredibly important to nail this down because not only did nanny run away from home on Saturday, according to experts, he was killed that same day, you know, at the very latest, the wee hours of Sunday. So we got to figure out who the heck saw him last. I mean the helpful thing is that we do know he talked to several people that day, right? Yeah, let's start there because I have a timeline. 1pm give or take, he arrives home from Jud's house. Jane is concerned about him, you know, he's behaving weird so she goes and gets his dad and then he runs out the back door. Ross sees him briefly, his brother in the backyard. You know, someone claimed to see him in an alleyway shortly after that, you know, near his house. He was reported at 2pm walking near the YMCA. I mean the next sighting is kind of the last sighting and interestingly it's five hours after the one by the ymca but right there at the same intersection. So you know, supposedly around 7pm he was seen near the missilers which is now save a lot but it was at that same intersection there. Yeah, I mean it makes you think like did he just hang out in that same area the entire day or. I mean obviously everything's like really close together so it's pretty accessible. But it is interesting that there's multiple sightings of him at different times in the same area. It is interesting because on one hand there's not a whole lot to do around there. So part of me wants to think that maybe he did just hang out right there in that same area for an extended time. It's just I don't know what he would have been doing because he had such a close knit group of friends. You know, it's not like he was with them. At least it was never reported that he was. So it's like he wasn't hanging out with people. He would have likely been by himself. So I really don't know. But I mean, thankfully we do know the last known sighting. You know, whether it's the actual last sighting or not is what's more important important there because at the end of the day he, he died, like I said, that same night, give or take. The entomologist said he was dead within hours of his last sighting at 7pm and obviously the coroner says Danny didn't put himself in that field. So someone he came into contact with Saturday night would have had to do that. So yeah, I guess let's, let's start with this last sighting on Saturday night because so far I've only read the narratives. We didn't have the recordings at first. So this actually. Yeah, this is a huge help.

Chad (22:40)

Yeah.

Dennis Cooper (22:41)

Let me see if I can pull these up here.

Chad (22:48)

This is Detective Bob Glover. What's wrong?

Dennis Cooper (22:57)

The last known sighting of Danny came courtesy of a friend named Charlie who saw Danny Saturday night roughly six hours after he ran away from home. Interestingly enough, Charlie also reported seeing Danny earlier that day. Here's the story he gave Detective McLaughlin.

Chad (23:17)

You saw him see Danny by all that? Yeah, I saw him twice.

Dennis Cooper (23:22)

Okay.

Chad (23:22)

Remember where you saw him at? Yeah, it was on Dale Street. What time would have been the deal when you saw my deal out in the morning? It was probably about 10:30 or 11. Me, my cousin Johnny and my friend Josh, we were driving and we saw him walking. We pulled in, we asked him what he was doing. He said he was walking home from Matt's or wherever Judd's going, wherever they stayed. And we asked him what he was doing later and he sent me the. And he told us to meet him up at Messlers later that night around 6:30 or 7. So I walked up there and met him. I left Josh's about seven. Josh was about three blocks down the road from that church and I was talking to him and I said, so what are you doing tonight? He said, I don't know. I think I'm gonna go to a party or something. And he said he had to go find Chad, Steve and I think, Matt because they were supposed to take him. And he left. He walked that way towards the east side. It looked like he was the one over the tracks. I don't know how far he made it because I turned around and walked the other way. And that's where Judd and Matt lived on the east side. So I figured he was gonna go to one of their houses and look.

Dennis Cooper (24:45)

To summarize, Charlie told McLaughlin that he, his friend and cousin were in the car when they ran into Danny as he was walking home from Jud's house Saturday morning. They had a brief exchange and made plans to meet up later that night at a grocery store called Missler's. Charlie said around 7pm he left his friend's house and walked a few blocks up the street to Missler's, where he met up with Danny. He said Danny was planning to go to a party that night and was looking for his friends Chad, Steve and Matt. He also added that when he last saw Danny, he was walking over the train tracks towards the east side of town, which happens to be where two of his friends, Judd and Matt, lived. The same houses he was at Friday night leading into Saturday morning when the boys took acid and Danny suffered that health scare. Which was another thing McLaughlin asked Charlie about during that interview.

Chad (25:37)

Was already talked about whether or not Danny had any acid out of Saturday night. Yeah, I knew he had some. You guys buying it? No, I saw him Friday and he said he had some Friday. Friday night, during the day, about after school. Then I saw him Saturday morning, I guess. I think he had like 17 hits or something like that. I saw him Saturday morning and he said that he had already took three that morning, and he said he had like eight left. And when I talked to McMisslers, I didn't ask him a lot of them. Knew anybody that bought any? No. He tried to sell us some, but we didn't have no money. How much did he buy for? I think six bucks. Six bucks? Yeah. Got a little steep. Was that about average? That's about average, I guess, yeah.

Dennis Cooper (26:27)

A few things to point out here. This is the first time I've heard anything about Danny having acid during the daytime on Friday if he already had some. It's hard to imagine the boys taking that extended trip to pick up some later that night. But maybe it was just a misunderstanding. Another thing to point out is that the $6 he mentioned, Danny was Charging per hit is the exact amount of cash that was found ripped up in the cornfield. Now, that doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it is interesting nonetheless. And in some ways points back to the motive that Danny was killed over a debt. And one other thing that stood out to me is that Charlie never specifies why they were meeting up in the first place. And McLaughlin never presses him on this. It clearly wasn't to hang out, seeing as they went their separate ways. My first thought is that he was wanting to buy acid, Especially seeing as it came up in conversation. And he knew not only the amount of hits Danny had on him, but also how much he was charging for it. But he told McLaughlin he didn't buy any acid from Danny. Which leaves no real explanation for their meetup that night.

Chad (27:29)

Why do you think he's dead? Any ideas? If you had a guess, it's probably over drugs. Hated me because nobody hated him. But he's only got eight hits left on Saturday morning. Yeah, I know. It just don't make sense. He's gonna kill somebody over he lives. He's not the type of kid that somebody would just beat up just to beat him up because he's got a bad attitude or anything like that. It's not how d he was. Did he hold his own? With one guy, yeah. Two? I don't know. He wasn't very big. He could fight. He didn't fight a lot. He could defend himself, but he never fought. He had no reason to. He was just friends with everybody, you know.

Dennis Cooper (28:10)

That's all I've been hearing.

Malia Whaley (28:12)

I don't know.

Chad (28:13)

I can't name one person in this town that don't like him. Unless there's people I don't know about.

Dennis Cooper (28:23)

In some ways, it feels like detectives were fetching for a motive. And that's always been one of the biggest problems with this case. The lack of it. Like Charlie said, by all accounts, everyone liked Danny. This could be why detectives suspected the supplier from Galleon early in their investigation. Because at least there appeared to be a motive there. Assuming $85 is enough to kill someone over. But at this point in their investigation, it appears McLaughlin wasn't putting nearly as much stock in it. While Charlie couldn't provide a solid theory, he was able to help detectives firm up their timeline. He also provided detectives with another name that would help confirm his story. At least some parts of it.

Chad (29:02)

Who are you here with now? I'm here with my friend Junior. He was just McCarbing. He went to school with Danny, but he just moved here this year. So he said he talked to him a couple times on the bus.

Dennis Cooper (29:14)

As the interview came to an end, Charlie shared that another one of his friends, JR was also at the station with him. And it turns out that he too saw Danny Saturday night at Missler's. What's interesting about this is that Charlie never mentions in his interview that JR was with him that night when he saw Danny. Only that he rode with him to the station. But detectives would speak with him nonetheless. JR Was interviewed by Detective Terry Robinson with the Willard Police Department. Did you know Danny?

Chad (29:44)

Yeah.

Dennis Cooper (29:44)

How good you know him?

Chad (29:46)

I didn't know him a while.

Dennis Cooper (29:48)

I talked to him a few times.

Chad (29:50)

When's the last time that you talked to him?

Dennis Cooper (29:54)

I can't remember.

Chad (29:55)

It was on.

Dennis Cooper (29:55)

It was on the Pioneer, boss, but.

Chad (29:57)

Okay.

Dennis Cooper (29:58)

When's the last time you saw?

Chad (29:59)

Saw? I've seen. I seen him every. Every day until he was missing. Okay.

Dennis Cooper (30:08)

Did you see him on Saturday 24th October? I seen him walking, but I. I never.

Chad (30:16)

Okay. You saw him walking, huh?

Dennis Cooper (30:19)

Where did you see him walking in? He was by Misslers.

Chad (30:22)

By Mistlers? Yeah.

Dennis Cooper (30:23)

About what time? It was about 6:37. At night? Yeah, I just seen him walking towards you.

Chad (30:31)

I didn't see.

Dennis Cooper (30:32)

Which way was he going?

Chad (30:33)

He was going towards the m. By himself? Yeah.

Dennis Cooper (30:39)

Was he walking funny or anything like? He was drunk, from what I noticed. Walking. All right. Contrary to Charlie's account, Junior never claimed to have any sort of interaction with Danny that night. Just that he saw him walking through the area. But what's more odd to me is that neither of the boys mentioned being with each other that night. I guess it's possible that they could have just been around the same place at the same time doing their own separate things when they saw Danny. Though considering they were friends, common sense would say they were likely together, which seemed to be Robinson's line of thinking. In fact, he even went as far as to press JR about their potential involvement in this.

Chad (31:15)

Do you guys follow the anti Violet.

Dennis Cooper (31:17)

And fight with them?

Chad (31:19)

They were going to fight with Dan? No, like I said, I. You know, I've really. No, I just talked to him a few times. Ch we get any drugs right?

Dennis Cooper (31:27)

Lay mouth Dan.

Chad (31:31)

I just seen him walk and I didn't. All right.

Dennis Cooper (31:35)

Do you have anything else to tell me about Dan? We're going to go ahead and shut.

Chad (31:40)

The tape off then. Okay.

Malia Whaley (31:51)

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Dennis Cooper (32:51)

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Chad (34:11)

And this is JR's narrative here.

Dennis Cooper (34:16)

Yeah. So we have JR's here again, neither of them even mentioned in their interviews being together. That's just so strange for such like a simple thing to not line up. And then the other weird thing here is the names don't match up either. If you look at that 7pm Meetup at Mistler's, in Charlie's narrative, it says Danny was planning to go to a party and was looking for Chad and Steve. But in JR's narrative he says Danny was looking for Steve and Adam. So changing One of the names, even more odd is that, I mean, Junior didn't give any names in his interview that I heard, so don't really understand that. That's really interesting. It's like, did they just forget to jot something down? I mean, the other two names that he mentions are there. So like, why is. Why is this not. That's what I'm saying. Like, I don't. I don't really know. I mean, it's either bad reporting or something was said at a different time. Yeah, that wasn't. That wasn't captured in a recording. I really don't know there. I mean, obviously, as much as you want it to be, reporting is never 100% accurate. So, yeah, it's true. I probably lean that direction. I mean, since some of the details line up. I just don't know, it's just super weird. But the other thing though too is that there's one other narrative here, and this one was the one that was really odd because I kind of expected to hear mention of this in the interviews. So this narrative right here, this was in 2000. This one came from the BCI. They don't have anything really in relation to JR, but they have this one very short narrative here that I guess. I guess came from Charlie. This one is like so much more specific. So check this out. This one says when Charlie last saw Danny near the Missilers that night, he was approaching his friend Chad, which was one of the names he mentioned in that interview. But it says that Chad was sitting in his car at a red light and the last time he saw Danny, he was walking up to his car. That is way more specific than what he said the first go around about walking over tracks towards whoever's house on the east side of town. So yeah, that is very specific. And like, why was that not mentioned in the interview? I really don't know. We do have a recording from Chad as well, so maybe, maybe he'll talk about it in there. So probably should actually start by watching his interview real quick just to see what he kind of had to say to authorities. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah, let's pull it up. There's a lot of confusion around the last known sighting of Danny, especially when you start to analyze both the tapes and the written accounts. It's important to remember that these narratives were written at different times by different detectives after conducting interviews with different persons. Of course, the goal is to give accurate, detailed reporting, but the reality is that's not always what you end up getting at the end of the day. We're all human. So while it may be easy in hindsight to point out the various inconsistencies here, I also can't give a good explanation for them or say which version of the story you should believe. I tried reaching out to both Charlie and JR to get some clarity around this, but didn't have any luck. JR did reply to the first message I sent, but all he had to say was, quote, I just went to Pioneer with him, never really talked to him, and when I asked about that Saturday night, he went silent. As for Charlie, he never responded to my message. Michael Curtis also tried to contact him, to no avail, unfortunately. For now, it doesn't seem like we'll be able to nail down the details of this story any better. So in the meantime, let's just work with the accounts we have as best as we can, starting with the most recent narrative from the bci, where it was reported that when Charlie last saw Danny, he was approaching his friend Chad, who was sitting in his car at a red light. First, let's listen to Chad's original interview with the Huron County Sheriff's Office.

Chad (38:30)

Did you ever see Danny at all on the 23rd or 24th? I saw him earlier. Like, after school. Would that have been six on a Friday or Saturday? Friday. Okay, so on Friday, do you remember who he was with? Adam and Matt. Remember who that was? No, they were just driving around. That was Friday after school? Friday after school. And I saw him Saturday morning about 11 o' clock at Judd's. And then I left. I came back and he was gone. Talked to his mom. His mom said he ran out the back door. Told him to stay here and ran out the back door. That's all I knew. You haven't seen or heard from him since then?

Dennis Cooper (39:24)

I've been told that Chad was part of Danny's core group of friends. But as he explained to detectives, he wasn't part of the group at Matt and Judd's houses on Friday night, Though he did claim to see Danny sometime before that gathering and again the following morning at Judd's house.

Chad (39:40)

You guys chanced to go over to Judd's house and they were all over there. And the morning Danny was there and he was up, what was he doing? He was just acting weird. Like picking up little things on the floor. Just looking at him? No, just anything else. Like saying weird stuff. Like he said, hear the train? He said, like, train saw. He said something like that. What was he wearing last night or so? Pretty sure he's wearing that. It was A gray Michigan basketball T shirt, blue jeans, and black shoes. How long were your shots you would take? An hour. I went there about 10. Like about 11. So he told me they saw him between 10:30 and 11 over Dale Avenue by the church. Saturdays? Yeah. Is that possible? That's. That's what I heard. But you're saying you're at his house, At Judd's house, right? Off to 3:11? Yeah. So who do you think is wrong? I don't know.

Dennis Cooper (40:58)

To be fair, I'm not sure that either of them are wrong about this. Rather, it might just be a slight difference in time. Danny was said to have left Judd's house that morning around 11am Chad tells McLaughlin that he too left Judd's that morning around the same time, 11am and Charlie tells McLaughlin that he saw Danny walking towards his home around 10:30 or 11 that morning. That all adds up for me. But I did reach out to Chad myself to try and confirm this story and more importantly, to ask him about the supposed meetup near the Misslers on Saturday night. To my surprise, he was willing to speak with me. Just want to say, man, really appreciate you doing this.

Chad (41:39)

Yeah, it means a lot to me too.

Dennis Cooper (41:41)

After some quick introductions, Chad and I wasted no time getting into Danny's final days, starting with Friday.

Chad (41:49)

I was with Danny Adams, Steve and Matt the night before. Matt, Danny, Adam and Steve were going to Galleon to go get some acid. And luckily my mom made me come home that night. So I came home and they did. Went and did their thing. And I remember going to Judd's the next morning and Danny had just left Judd's house and then he was missing. I just remember them telling me, you know, Danny was like, acting weird, and for some reason I remember them saying that he took a pack of cigarettes and he shoved it into his fifth pocket in his jeans. I don't know. For some reason, that's always stuck with me. Yeah, 25 years. It's kind of like the memory's there, but it's. It seems like it's lifetimes ago, so it's hard to remember everything.

Dennis Cooper (43:03)

I want to echo what Chad said about the challenge of remembering things all these years later, because he seems to prove his own point here. For one, he includes Steve when talking about the group that went to Galleon on Friday night. But from listening to everyone else's accounts, we know that's not true. Furthermore, Chad told me that was the last time he saw Danny, which is different from what he told authorities in his original interview. The way he remembers It. Now, when he arrived at Judd's house the next morning, Danny had already left to go home. But what I was more curious about was the supposed sighting near the Misslers on Saturday. Funny enough, I didn't immediately share Charlie's narrative from the bci. Instead, Chad brought up his name in reference to some of the theories he's heard over the years.

Chad (43:48)

You know, knowing Danny, it only took a few people to do that to him. He was a scrapper. Especially if Danny feared like, you know, I'm fighting for my life right now. It would have took more than one person to do something to him. I know that. I wholeheartedly believe that there was foul play somewhere. A couple people did something to him, you know, and then the other story about Charlie Stevens, and if it was just Charlie, Danny would have whooped his ass.

Dennis Cooper (44:25)

I've heard something about what's.

Chad (44:27)

What's the story there that you refer to? Something about Charlie said that he seems Danny, that day that he went missing at a save a lot. So for the longest time, you know, people were saying, like, Charlie was the last person to see him alive. So, I mean, you know, you hear that, you kind of think.

Dennis Cooper (44:56)

Chad said he didn't know Charlie all that well. They were more acquaintances than they were friends. After hearing him out, I eventually asked him about Saturday night.

Chad (45:06)

Actually, I'm sorry.

Dennis Cooper (45:07)

I've been trying to pull this up as I'm filming this so I can actually. Okay, I don't want to mislead here.

Chad (45:12)

Here we go.

Dennis Cooper (45:13)

He said the victim. So Danny told him that he was going to talk with another friend, you, who at the time was in his car and stopped at a traffic light in front of the mislers. He says the last time he saw him is while he was walking towards your car.

Chad (45:35)

That's a new one to me. Yeah, that's definitely fabricated because I. I didn't see him that day.

Dennis Cooper (45:44)

I'm gonna be honest. I don't know what to make of Saturday night. Hopefully I'll get the chance to clear up this narrative at a later time, but for now, we can only work with the information we have. As for Chad, I have no reason to doubt his story. He came across as sincere to me, even explaining why he felt it was so important to talk with me about this.

Chad (46:05)

It's way past due. All his friends, all his family, everybody that cared about Danny, they deserve to know the truth of what happened. It's been a lifetime ago. Everybody's grown up, Everybody's started their own family. And it's not Fair. He got that chance taken away from him. And Danny, he was my friend. I couldn't imagine what it's like being my son or my brother or something like that. That'd be so I can imagine what they went through over the years. At this point, I just want the truth. It would just be great just to know the one true story.

Dennis Cooper (47:00)

If Chad didn't see Danny that night, that means. As it stands, Charlie and JR are still the last known sighting of Danny. But I cannot say that they were the actual last sighting of him. Taking them at their word. They say they parted ways with Danny that night after that brief encounter at Missler's. If that's the case, then someone else must have seen Danny after leaving there in order for him to wind up dead in that cornfield. It's going to take some more digging if we're to ever find out who. Just like Professor Michael Curtis's students alluded to near the beginning of this episode.

Malia Whaley (47:32)

We're just going to have to go through, check every door and. And hopefully soon we can find the door that'll open some more opportunities and start leading us the right way.

Dennis Cooper (47:44)

During our visit to Tiffin University, Michael informed me that his mentors have already started to narrow down their theories and the list of people they'd like to speak with. After a thorough review of the files, I'll let Malia share what the next step of their process looks like.

Malia Whaley (47:59)

After we pick out those people, all the teams working on this case, their mentors, will get together, they'll make sure all this information is finalized. We'll give it to Dr. Curtis, who's working on the case, and he'll go talk to these people and he'll ask the questions that we compiled for those people.

Dennis Cooper (48:20)

While the student's work has to stay in the classroom, for the most part, data mining and piecing together the intricacies of these cases. I was surprised to learn that Michael's work isn't confined to the walls of the Cold Case Fellowship. He may be a professor by trade, but as I mentioned in a previous episode, his skill set stretches beyond that. And he tells me his work on Danny's case is just getting started.

Michael Curtis (48:45)

There's no doubt in my mind. When I go to Willard, I'm going to ruffle some feathers because I'm going to ask some tough questions that they're not going to like. And you know my answer. That is too bad. I don't know how much I want to get into it, but there's some conflict there. There's some people working that case that shouldn't have worked that case. There's some ties that were omitted, and so I find that interesting. I became an attorney because I was a cop, and I know what cops do. Some of them are great and some of them are not. They're just like anybody else. So pretty convenient that some of that stuff was left out of them.

Dennis Cooper (49:27)

There's still a lot more we need to unpack here, more theories to explore, more persons of interest to consider, and even some evidence that could help change the outcome of this case. So stay tuned. Coming up on Culpable. You lied to me. You knew why they were going over there.

Chad (49:55)

No, I didn't.

Dennis Cooper (49:55)

Do you want to take the polygraph right now? Because we go right across the hall.

Chad (49:58)

And he's over there.

Dennis Cooper (50:00)

It's hard to validate what an individual says.

Chad (50:03)

But then in another way, you get two drug addicts saying the same thing. That kind of, strangely enough, lends a.

Dennis Cooper (50:09)

Sense of credibility to it.

Malia Whaley (50:11)

If they're not going to help us, we'll just go around them. We work so hard, and it feels like this is our chance.

Michael Curtis (50:18)

If he died in your house, it was an accident. It's involuntary manslaughter, tampering with a dead body. Statute of limitations were over 20 years ago. So tell me what happened.

Malia Whaley (50:31)

It feels like there's finally a possibility that we will get some answers, and.

Chad (50:37)

I haven't felt that way in a long, long time.

Malia Whaley (50:40)

There's real work going into it, and.

Chad (50:45)

It might bear fruit.

Dennis Cooper (51:14)

Culpable is a production of Tenderfoot TV in partnership with Odyssey, written and hosted by Dennis Cooper. Our senior producer is John Street. Our producer is Jamie Albright. Edit, mix and sound design by Dayton Cole. You can follow us on social media culpablepodcast. And lastly, if you have any information about the death of Danny Violet, please fill out the form on our website culpablepodcast.com or contact the Huron County Sheriff's Office at 419-668-6912. A new episode of Culpable will release next Monday, but you can binge additional episodes right now ad free by subscribing to Tenderfoot plus on Apple Podcasts or at tenderfootplus.com.

Malia Whaley (52:33)

Listen, if you love true crime, but you find yourself wanting more than just the surface, like those little details you normally end up googling the angles that don't make the headlines, then you should check out Seriously with Annie Elise. Annie covers everything from big updates and and cases you've been following, like the Idaho 4 now that the gag order has been lifted to deep dives into cases you might not have even heard of yet, she unpacks the timelines, the connections, the wait, what moments, and even dives into topics like cults and breaking news, including the recent Tennessee quadruple homicide where a baby was found abandoned on a stranger's lawn. With over a million weekly downloads across 11 countries, Annie has a way of telling these stories, like a friend who who's already gone down every rabbit hole, so you can just hit play and follow along. So if you've been looking for someone to talk true crime with, and a community just as into it as you are, this is where you need to be. New episodes of Seriously drop every Monday and Thursday. Wherever you get your podcasts.