Loading summary
Transcript103 lines
- [00:00]
Ariana Grande
Hi, I'm Ariana Grande. Hi, I'm Cynthia Erivo and you're listening to the Broadway Podcast Network. Visit VPN FM to discover more. This episode is brought to you by Progressive, a leader in boat insurance. Welcome aboard to Carefree Boating. Here we don't worry about the what ifs because we explore with Progressive Boat Insurance for as little as $100 per year for a basic liability policy. Progressive also offers a variety of other coverages and can help you cover repair costs when you need it. And with discounts like Multi Policy, Safety Course, Responsible Driver and more, your mind can really float free. Cruise on over to progressive.com to get a quote today and see if you could save Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and Affiliates rating discounts not available in all states or situations.
- [00:43]
Cynthia Erivo
Choosing a bottled Starbucks Frappuccino drink that's.
- [00:45]
Ariana Grande
All flavor and just 100 calories easy. Choosing between Creamy Vanilla Double Chocolate and Sea Salt Caramel flavors a little harder. Try the delicious new Starbucks Frappuccino Light Drinks. Look for them wherever you buy groceries. Start with Starbucks Coffee.
- [00:59]
Ian
Hey, did you know you can watch every episode of Cult of Body and soul on YouTube? If you want to see videos and photos of all the instructors, we have it all waiting for you. Go to YouTube and search Cult of SoulCycle. Second announcement I am so excited to say we are doing a live show in New York City on Wednesday, July 9. I'll be interviewing Janet Fitzgerald and Hallie Becker live on stage at Joe's Pub. Plus, we'll have live music from the band Betty, whose songs are heard at the end of each episode. Tickets are on sale now@joe's pub.com just search Soul Cycle Wednesday, July 9th and I will see you there. This is Cult of Body and Soul Episode six Boogeyman in the Corner. This is the first of several episodes which will contain a treasure trove of bonus material, anecdotes and gossip that were just too good to leave on the cutting room floor. Something I always loved was the historic rivalry between SoulCycle and my other favorite studio, Barry's Boot Camp. Think Cherry Grove and the Fire island pines. See, before SoulCycle revolutionized studio fitness, there was a man named Barry J in West Hollywood. As a devotee of both Soul and Barry's, I cannot stress how different the two are. At Barry's, you are lifting weights and running on a treadmill. The instructor and the music are in the background. Cut to 2011. Having been in LA for eight years, Barry's was finally opening their first New York City location. And so the Rivalry begins as beloved Barry CEO Joey Gonzalez attempts to steal several Soul instructors.
- [02:56]
Ariana Grande
Julie established us as talent. Like, when a studio was opening, she laid out headshots like it was, like, casting the studio. Her vision of this was making Soul cycle. Instructors have that be their career. And in turn, they paid us to the point that we didn't have to teach anywhere else.
- [03:13]
Ian
This is Ian. Ian taught at Soul from 2012 to 2018 and has been at Barry's ever since. Here's our unfiltered convo about poaching instructors, lawsuits, bans, and other studio lore.
- [03:29]
Ariana Grande
So Julie and Elizabeth called Joey Gonzalez and Alicia Stevenin, who was one of the original trainers for Berries, called them into a meeting. And I've heard both sides of the story, so I find it really interesting. They were like, yeah, we thought it was gonna be, like, a fun, friendly meeting. We were in, like, our gym clothes and our backpack. And then we show up, and Julie and Elizabeth are in, like, suits, like, very established. I just also think it's so funny thinking about it, because that was in the old office. That was in the old Tribeca office, which was, like, the size of this table was their office. It's like this little, like, baby little attic above Tribeca. And they essentially said, you will not be taking our instructors. We will not be taking your instructors. Our instructors work for us.
- [04:17]
Ian
And what's the other side of the story?
- [04:19]
Ariana Grande
I mean, I have heard from not even just SoulCycle. This is actually from Flywheel, too. A lot of people were not happy with Barry's coming in because they knew that it was a brand. They didn't want them taking their talent. Allegedly, in one of the Flywheel staff rooms, they had a poster of the Barry's instructors that said, friends do not let friends run on treadmills. And when I would take class with Janet, she would always drop little bits like, aren't you so happy that we aren't those miserable people running on treadmills right now and always throwing, like, little bits of shade like that towards them? Sol had a few bands on people.
- [05:05]
Ian
Do you know the story about the instructor training his riders, like, back alley style in the basement of 83rd Street?
- [05:13]
Ariana Grande
Was it Nick Oram?
- [05:14]
Ian
Yes, I hear it.
- [05:16]
Ariana Grande
Nick Arum has so many freaking craz. Him being fired was the most insane thing ever.
- [05:22]
Ian
The story is that after, like, they would close, he would reopen it, and he was, like, running a training group of people he was gonna hire to start his own thing.
- [05:33]
Ariana Grande
Oh, I did not know that, but that sounds exactly like him. But What I will say is, so we. It was the first all company call that we had had when I had been hired to the point that all of us were like. So I guess no one knows how to mute themselves on company calls because everyone was just, like, talking, but got on very seriously and was like, we have severed ties with Nick Oram. He is no longer teaching with us. Nick ended up suing the company. This goes into bands. That's why I'm, like, thinking of it. So Nick ended up suing the company for wrongful termination. He said that we were not paid for our time outside of teaching. For, like, our time prepping for the class, our time making playlists, talking to clients, etc. We were. It was in our contracts at the time. Like, at least when I had signed mine, it was in there. I don't know if it was not when he did his, but Nick saying that we weren't paid enough is so rich, because Nick was one of the highest paid instructors at the time. I think from what I had heard, he was making around $300 per class, which is a lot of money for people in cycling. Might have been even more than that. And then after that, his attorney was banned from SoulCycle because he was representing Nick in the lawsuit. And I think that turned into a whole new story. So it was something that I did not like that they did. I hated when we banned people unless they were doing something really egregious. There was, I don't know if anyone told you a story that there was a former New York City real housewife that was banned from 63rd street because she was talking so loudly throughout the entire class to the point that it was so disruptive. And she was making out with her boyfriend in the front row, doing a whole bunch of things up there. And then when the studio manager came up to them afterwards and was like, hi. There wasn't an initial ban. They were just like, hey, so we just want to let you know, they would really establish the rules. Like, if you're in the front row, we really want you to be following along with the class. We try not to have people talking and stuff. And this former New York City housewife starts grilling the manager, ripping into her, pulls the whole, do you know who I am? Situation. And the manager ended up calling corporate, and that woman ended up being banned.
- [07:50]
Ian
Was it Sonja Morgan?
- [07:51]
Ariana Grande
It sure was.
- [07:53]
Ian
Do you know how I knew that?
- [07:54]
Rich
She lives on the block.
- [07:58]
Ariana Grande
I think eventually, like, all of the bans got lifted and everything. I think now they only ban if it's like a really egregious offense.
- [08:05]
Ian
Well, cutting to today, people are allowed to teach at both Barry's and Soul.
- [08:10]
Ariana Grande
Yeah. Now we have, like, it's so different. I mean, we have partnerships. Like, I can take a class at SoulCycle for free, and SoulCycle instructors can take class at Barry's for free. That used to never happen. I think it was a change in how people viewed the industry. A lot of people couldn't only teach at one studio. If you're new and you're not full time, you have four classes a week. Less than that. Sometimes there's people that are new off on a schedule that can go weeks without a class. What are they supposed to do? You can't stop people from making money. And so I think they just establish, like, if you're.
- [08:43]
Ian
I think also with Julie and Elizabeth leaving, that may have opened the door a little bit.
- [08:48]
Ariana Grande
But, yeah, I mean, I think especially with, like, Julie no longer being involved. Julie was the one that was very protective of us.
- [08:55]
Ian
Nearly everyone I spoke to had absolutely zero knowledge of Ruth Zuckerman, Julie and Elizabeth's co founder. Ruth, of course, went on to co found Flywheel, SoulCycle's main competitor.
- [09:08]
Ariana Grande
It was an interesting one. So I just remember hearing the story of SoulCycle and it was like two friends set up by a mutual friend, and that's how we would always tell the story. And then a couple of years into me working there, one of my friends, like, you know, the friend was Ruth. I was like, oh, interesting. And I. So the way that I knew Ruth when I was first hired there was that she was Persona non grata in the studios, like it would. You could feel people change their demeanor when it was mentioned or when she was mentioned. And I remember when people were doing their arm series with like, the front raises a million times over. One of the trainers that was training us was like, I don't like doing that. It reminds me of Grandma Ruth. I didn't know what that meant. And then, like, once I learned who Ruth was, I was like, damn. The one thing I do remember was one of the other rules in training. After a hill, you have to flesh your legs out so you can't do two heavy songs right next to each other. And she goes, and now we're just gonna fly down this hill. And then afterwards, when she was getting her critique, two of the people that were in charge of training, they were just like, I don't think we should say fly in this room. I don't know if you know this. The Big wheel that's on the bike. It's called a flywheel. So it's like, I can't even call it that. Like, it's. It's the name of the bike. Um, but, yeah, I was just told we never say fly in this room. And that was the extent that she was spoken of. And then by the end of my time there, I think it was the 10 year anniversary, we were on a call. It's like one of the big company meetings. We're all on Zoom and we're talking about how far we had come as a company and such. And sue goes, you know, I really think that we should be also not completely forgetting about Ruth Zuckerman. And everyone was like, we were told to never mention her name or never say fly in here. And sue was just like, we wouldn't have this if it wasn't for her. This company wouldn't have existed if Ruth was not here. And that was the first time that I had heard Melanie say. Because Melanie was one of the ones that said, don't say fly in this room. It was one of the first times that I heard Melanie say, yeah, you know, I. Ruth and I are running the same circles. We're both on the Upper west side. We see each other at parties and stuff every now and then. And I was like, oh, okay, so she's not this boogeyman in the corner. Like, we can actually talk about this SoulCycle.
- [11:39]
Ian
Barry's instructor Ian, also confirmed that, yes, there was talk of how to seduce the riders in training.
- [11:55]
Ariana Grande
There was a hook of seducing. The way that I was taught was, Your playlist is nine to 10 songs, and the first three were meant to be seduction. So, like, the songs were a little bit slower and quieter. The lights are darker, My voice is a lot calmer, and you would use different colorful language to get them to really listen to you more. It wasn't just like, put your hips back. It was, draw your hips a little bit farther back into the room so that your shoulders can start to lengthen and your arms have just a slight softness on the handlebars. And so it's like making the language very, very colorful so that they just start to lean into you a bit more. But it was billed as seduction. And it makes sense. Like the way that the music that we would be playing and the way that we were talking and the way that you're trying to hook someone, think of any book that you write or that you read, rather like the first bit is to hook you in some way.
- [12:48]
Ian
So how were you told how to craft the soulful moment? You know, the 11 o' clock number?
- [12:53]
Ariana Grande
I remember during training, I think it was Stacy that told us to be really mindful of eye contact and physical contact in that moment, because people's endorphins are really high. It's candlelit. Eye contact can be very, very intense for a lot of people, and they can start to, like, lack of a better phrase, almost fall in love with you. It's just like all the endorphins and everything with eye contact in that situation will just get them to really hook. I took that as a way to, like, okay, so if I want to hook riders and make eye contact, or they might have a moment with them during the soulful moment, and it made sense.
- [13:39]
Ian
Here's Rich, another former soul instructor who is currently at Barry's.
- [13:44]
Jill Cargman
I think that Janet had a way of getting it out of people, and I think that there's been a big shift in the world as to what we're allowed to say now versus what we were allowed to say then. I don't necessarily think I would have been offended, but I also was never on the receiving end of that. Like, do you have sex with your husband? Go put on red lipstick and come back and get on the bike? That's what soul was trying to sell back then, right. On the flip side, you know, I found Melanie to be a bit more aggressive in training, and Melanie was a little bit more like, do it how I do it. Whereas Janet, Danny, the rest of them were very much like, this is how it needs to be done. So let's find your. Your way to do this. Like, find your brand within the brand. It was stated that the most successful instructor is one that the riders either want to be sleep with or both. I'm not sure if I was ever any of those things for everybody, but, yeah, there was definitely the.
- [14:42]
Ariana Grande
The.
- [14:42]
Jill Cargman
The seduction of the rider with the candle. The seduction of the rider with the. You know, moving them to a specific bike. So, you know, you could be the boyfriend bike, the one right in front of your. Of your podium, touching the hand, you know, like, letting them blow the candle out.
- [14:56]
Ariana Grande
You're never allowed to have two seated flats in a row, so two seated songs in a row. And the reason that we were given was that you have to get up and air out your vagina. And I remember laughing really hard the first time I heard it. But then it was the phrase that kept on being uttered every single time that we would present our playlist. So you present your Playlist at the beginning of the day of each training. And you'd be like, all right, this is my opening jog. You'd hear a little bit of it and then like, all right, that's fine. Okay, there's seated flat. And then my next song is going to be a side to side. And they'd be like, yep, get up, air it out. And so it just like started to, like, flow. Every single time I would do a seated song, it's like, okay, now I have to air it out. And that was like the initial verbiage that we were given. And then another teacher in training that said she was like, don't even think of it as like airing out your vagina because that's only specific to women. But like, you also are in a saddle where you're compressing the artery in your perineum that gives you an erection. So you want to be able to still have an erection. So you shouldn't be in the saddle for two songs in a row if you want to be able to have air in your vagina or if you want to be able to get it up. And so that's why you don't do two seated songs in a row.
- [16:07]
Ian
The training team had a reputation of trying to break instructors to see if they could take it. One girl quit after just two weeks and is now a chief instructor at Barry's, where she mentors future instructors.
- [16:21]
Ariana Grande
So the first day of training, we were going around with our icebreakers. So it was say your name and what region you're in. Because we had just opened up a couple of studios in la. So all the LA trainers would come to New York to train. So they're going through and we get to a woman named Janet who has the same name as Janet, who is head of training, Janet Fitzgerald. And it's Janet Kooyman. Janet was like, hi, my name's Janet and I am in Scarsdale. And Janet and Mel both look at each other and then Janet Fitzgerald goes, I hope you got a good middle name. And it was because Janet didn't want to have another Janet on the schedule. And it was the first little bit of friction. This is still when training was like, pretty. This was 2012. It was a different time in fitness. And a lot of the people that were in the heads of training of that situation, you trained the way that you were trained. And so a lot of us were dancers. Dancers are trained crazy. I think I might have told you a story in the past or like, I had a ballet teacher that when I was doing ballet. We would go into arabesque, which is when you're standing, you lift your leg behind you, and she would strike a match and hold it under my leg so that I would not drop my leg and I would be in arabesque. That's the level of training. And I was 15 or 16 when that was going on. That's the level of training I had conditioned myself to. So it in hindsight was like, I congestioned myself to trauma in training situations. Like, you could say really fucked up things to me and I'd be like, yeah, that makes sense. So you train the way that you're trained. And so sometimes people train a little bit more aggressively because that's how they were trained. You're like, it's a sad part of trauma. You're imparting trauma onto someone else. And so for training, you would present a part of your playlist and be like, today we're gonna be teaching your opening jog and your second song. And then you'll present the rest of your playlist without riding. But we would all have to ride whatever songs that you were teaching for that day. There's always a random comment that gets made that would just make you kind of like step back a little bit. But again, I came from dance. I guess I just came from restaurants. People in restaurants talk to each other all fucked up. So like, yeah, this isn't crazy for me. Like, I'm used to this kind of language with people. So it was Janet K's turn to present. I believe she's a chief instructor now at Barry's, which is kind of a testament to how she is as a trainer and also just how she has learned to grow as a trainer through training, like through people mentoring her and such. I just remember being in the saddle and they stop her song. So Janet Fitzgerald raised her arm in the back and is like, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. And Janet K. Is confused. So she like turns her music off. And she was like, is that a second seated song in a row? And Janet K was like, oh, like, kind of taken aback. She realized that she messed up. And Janet Fitzgerald goes, janet, we talk about the vagina all the time. Why aren't you listening? And I was like, oh, my gosh. And Janet K was really overwhelmed. You're in front of a group of people, there's a spotlight on you. And she was embarrassed that she just messed something up. And she started crying. And this is another dance teacher thing. Like when I was younger and I remember hearing my dance teachers tell me to save it for my pillow. Save it for Oprah. Like, you never cry in front of people. So Janet Kay started crying. And anyone with empathy could feel that she was crying on a microphone in front of a group of people. Cause she just made a mistake. And I just remember Janet Fitzgerald standing in the back, like, rolling her eyes, waiting for her to be finished, and then just going, are we done with the tears? And after that, Janet Kay and this other woman who was from Scarsdale, they both quit training because they were like, I didn't get signed up to be belittled and yelled at in front of people. And so after that, I'd heard that Julie had to have a talk with Janet and Mel and just be like, those two were our girls for Scarsdale. Like, they were our women that were supposed to help us with Scarsdale. And they just quit because of how mean it was. We can't have that happen. Like, we need these people to be able to teach. We can't, like, belittle them until they're not willing to do it. One of the reasons that we were given as to why they were so harsh on us during training was, cause if we can't take it from them, then we can't take it from the clients. And the clients are very mean. But the critiques after were also crazy. Now that I think about it, there would be times where they would want to make somebody cry on critique. Like, they would just keep on going until they could break the person.
- [21:07]
Ian
This next bit first appeared on my weekly show, Hot Takes and Deep Dives, where I interview TV writers, comedians, musicians, and other notable New Yorkers. Jill Cargman is an Upper East Sider whose book, Momzilla's, was adapted into a scripted series for Bravo called Odd Mom Out. Jill can really break the shit down.
- [21:27]
Rich
I started going one or two days a week, and then there was a point where I went five. But I realized, like, during those early years, I was, like, pedaling away from something. Another thing when you become a parent is like, the club days are over, so I'm not going dancing.
- [21:42]
Ariana Grande
So I was.
- [21:43]
Rich
I was somehow scratching that itch. And I felt like I was at a party. And it didn't feel like exercise. It felt like a party, and there was, like, a ritual to it. I have a theory that a lot of these women, not everyone, but a lot of them, their addiction at that level. And I felt it. I was there, but I wasn't there for, like, the emotional support. I was there because it. I felt alive again, but I wasn't like, my instructor looks at me and I feel defibrillated from the dead. And I think a lot of these husbands who are kind of these, like, Wall street douchebag, hedge fund pieces of shit, you know, dick swinger types that I can't stand because I've been my dinner partners in a million dinner parties. And they're. It's like talking to a lobotomy patient. And they're Brett Kavanaugh Broseph's, like, clinking glasses. And they're not for me. And I never would have married someone like that, but they did. And they have their lifestyle, but they feel not seen. And I think that if you are in sort of those inner cults, when an instructor is cheering you on and, like, looks into your eyes on that bike and you're like, tapping dat ass back. There's something also sexual, I think, about, like, riding a bike for some people. Like, I don't think they're necessarily, like, getting schwants at home or it's like, whatever. They're just like, lying there kind of thing. I think they felt, like, switched on. And I think that some of them felt the instructors, like, laser beam shine on them and that that was like a sexual turn on. And they would wear, like, huge oversized sunglasses, like they were some kind of fucking JLo walking in. I do know people who are in that deep, deep inner circle, but they would kind of. It's like proximity breeds intimacy. And they saw each other seven days a week sometimes in doubles and Hamptons, and they're anywhere they went. See, I don't go to the Hamptons, so I just kind of would take a break in the summer and not do it. There was no studio near me, but there are people who, 12 months of the year, wherever they go, they're doing it. And they developed these really close relationships where suddenly you're at, like, someone's 40th birthday and people are crying. There was a point where there was like a. Like a holding hands and people were weeping and shit. Like, you are my family. You know, you're my sisters. And like, I've never told anyone this, but. And I was like, oh, oh, yeah. See, I have my friends. My four bridesmaids are my still my best friends. Like, I'm not. I'm not a big friend collector. Like throwing a lobster net across the Upper east side and like, dragging in any rich who wants to have lunch. You know what I mean?
- [24:11]
Ian
Hey, two quick things before we break. One, did you know you can watch every episode of Cult of Body and soul on YouTube. If you want to see videos and photos of all all the instructors, we have it all waiting for you. Go to YouTube and search Cult of SoulCycle. Second announcement I am so excited to say we are doing a live show in New York City on Wednesday, July 9. I'll be interviewing Janet Fitzgerald and Hallie Becker live on stage at Joe's Pub. Plus we'll have live music from the band Betty whose songs are heard at the end of each episode. Tickets are on sale now@jospub.com just search SoulCycle Wednesday, July 9th and I will see you there.
- [24:59]
Rich
When you hear Lululemon, you probably think.
- [25:01]
Ariana Grande
Of Align yoga pants.
- [25:03]
Rich
Weightlessly soft, like you're wearing next to nothing. That's why you see them in class, at the grocery store and in the park.
- [25:11]
Ian
But did you know about skirts with.
- [25:13]
Rich
Built in liner shorts so you can still jump for the Frisbee and tanks and bodysuits with Align's iconic stretch, you won't want to take it off. And with endless style options, you don't have to shop in store or online@lululemon.com.
- [25:32]
Ian
Back to Barry's Boot Camp for a minute. Chris was a manager there for five years and he's just one of many who preach that Barry's is too, in fact a quote unquote culture.
- [25:44]
Cynthia Erivo
Any cult is going to have a target audience. I didn't fit the mold of SoulCycle, but Barry's is a cult because it's a lifestyle. Berries was selling fuel. It was selling an aggressive energy. When you describe candles and you say, look at me, we're in the front, it's almost like you're drawing like more of an emotional kind of connection with the people in Seoul. You're reaching a bit more of a vulnerable thing. And I think that Barry's approaches it very New York City. It's like you're a fucking beast. You got this like, it's a bit more of an aggressive grab them and pull them in. They were feeding you. I mean those, those shakes, that was fuel. They were inside your body, they were inside your mind. You were wearing them, you were walking around and you represented like a statue of a person. Like that, that same kind of physique. Everyone knew your lifestyle. If you say you go there, people know who you are. You're very branded.
- [26:36]
Ian
He credits CEO Joey Gonzalez's visibility for giving Barry's an edge.
- [26:42]
Cynthia Erivo
I think there's a lot to say about emulating the lifestyles of the instructors. But what's even more so is our CEO He's a bit of a role model for the company. He is the brand and I think you just want to emulate him. And it helps that he's so involved, you know, having a face that is so the brand really makes it all feel so much more tangible and so much more real. Barry's Barry himself. He started the company. He was the entire brand. It was the boot camp and that was. And it was Barry's company. But the new face, Joey Gonzalez, he still teaches. I mean his lifestyle. He's on yachts. He and his husband have two beautiful kids. They're very active with the company. I mean, they show up to all the studios.
- [27:27]
Ian
SiriusXM host John Hill is a fellow Barry's enthusiast and has been there since the very beginning.
- [27:34]
Jill Cargman
I lived next door to the original Barry's Boot Camp, the only one in the world at the time in West Hollywood. And Barry was still teaching. I think it was on his way out. It was different. He was the star of the show. And I mean this lovingly. But like things that would never fly now. Like you'd be on your bench doing chest presses and he would like come straddle you and bounce up and down and be like whisper sweet nothings in your ear. And he was great. It was fun. Everybody loved it. It was just a different time, you know, that wouldn't be allowed now.
- [28:03]
Cynthia Erivo
Yeah, Barry was a part of your life. Those stories are true. Barry would show up at your house.
- [28:09]
Ian
Barry the Man.
- [28:10]
Cynthia Erivo
Barry the man would show up to your house if you decided to sleep in from class. They even did like a little spoof on it on Desperate Housewives.
- [28:19]
Ian
I remember we also discussed the challenge of balancing instructors intense energy output with a social life.
- [28:27]
Cynthia Erivo
So yeah, we were in close quarters with a lot of like heavy partying and. But you bet your ass those people would be at that 5am class the next day. It was nuts how they could bounce back, these instructors. And I saw it get the best of some instructors. We, we definitely saw a lot of that. I mean, what can I say? I mean, I've seen some instructors, people have to take breaks from the company or I've seen their emotional state kind of dwindle after the lifestyle. You know, it's. I don't know how to maintain all of that. Your energy is unparalleled when you're inside that studio. I compare it to the finale of Mamma Mia. Which I toured with for a couple years. The final 15 minute megamix is like crack cocaine. And it's like the last boost of the show. And you just have to pull that energy out of nowhere. And then all of a sudden you're abandoned. And it's like 10:30pm or 11:00pm and you're just like walking along the streets in like Idaho somewhere and you're like, I think I just like, did I just like shoot up and like perform this insane number? And then your energy just has to like, calm down. Like, I don't know how they can do it. And then they have like three more that day. How do you maintain that? You know how? Celsius bitch. Celsius brand partnership, honey, I swear to God, that's like the only way to get through it. I mean, in order to work the 4:30am shift, just like think about that just for one second. 4:30, that means I would have to leave my apartment at 3:30am this is just to open the studio for a 5am class. There were people waiting at 4:45 outside the studio. Those were people who took the class every day. I can't let you into the studio yet. What? You are crazy. But I couldn't sleep the night before. I had to work a shift like that, so. And I just had to sit behind the desk and do my thing. I don't understand where they would get the energy from to scream at everyone at that hour and then to know that they had a full day after that. No naps. No naps.
- [30:23]
Ian
As peloton captured the zeitgeist, Barry's launched ride, they were suddenly incorporating indoor cycling for non runners, aiming to rival SoulCycle after Flywheel's bankruptcy, Barry's ride.
- [30:37]
Cynthia Erivo
And there was a lot at stake trying to figure out how to crack this code. I don't know who they were trying to emulate. The stakes were just really high. I mean, it was quite an expense to branch out into that world. It was. It was not at all what people like. What people like about Barry's is that they don't have to get on a bike. Or at least that's what people say. And that's why people prefer one over the other. You either like a bike or you like to run. And usually people don't like all three things. You know, throwing weights around, running a bike. You know, all of that is quite a lot. But they, they started, they used kind of methods from other cycle studios, for sure. They pulled some trainers to kind of help create the formula. And it was. It happened to be at the studio I was working at in the city. So I kind of saw them mold these new instructors. They pulled the regular Barry's instructors, and tried to mold them into cycling instructors. But those are two different types of people. Those people have two different ears for music. Those instructors, the training sessions for them was quite grueling because this. The stakes were high because the companies that nailed it before them nailed it. You know, we couldn't fail at. At figuring this out. So they were. It was a grueling process to train these instructors. They would come up from the basement, which is where they were doing the training sessions on the bike. These instructors would come up weeping. I mean, crying. They were like, I can't do it. Like, I'm telling you, it was day after day. Someone else had a breakdown. They were like, he was so mean to me, like, trying to teach me how to do this.
- [32:07]
Ariana Grande
I was like, really?
- [32:08]
Cynthia Erivo
That. That instructor, he's so sweet. But you know what? He needed to crack that whip, needed to get these people into shape because Barry's couldn't fail.
- [32:17]
Ian
Has Barry's ride been successful?
- [32:19]
Cynthia Erivo
You looked at me. Oh, God, I don't know. I don't know.
- [32:32]
Ian
I spoke to Rich and Ian about the phenomenon of soul cycle instructors quitting and then going back to that job. What is happening?
- [32:44]
Jill Cargman
There's something about SoulCycle that inside that room that you cannot explain, you cannot replicate. And it is, like. It's, like, magnetic for the instructor, right? Something about, like, dun, dun, dun, dun, dun. The beat drops, you flip the lights on, Everybody stands up. It's incredible, right? In a dark room, you miss that and, like, there's almost a way that, like, you can start to forgive all of the. Can I say bullshit. All of the bullshit that you put up with outside that door. Because when the door closes, nothing. Nothing can top that. And so when I left the first time, I was missing that to the point where, like, I didn't even want to work out. I just wanted to be on that. I wanted to be there. And so, yeah, it just. It pulls you right back in. And then as soon as you get right back in, you're like, oh, this is my abusive partner. That. That I need to get away from. This is purely Stockholm syndrome.
- [33:35]
Ariana Grande
I just remember, like. Like, the words that were on the walls and the mantras and, like, I. It just felt very much like cultish behavior. Like, when I left, I'm like, I got out. You know, like, I just remember, like, a bunch of us when we had left, we're like, oh, my God, we got out. Like, we made it out. There's people that stay there forever.
- [33:57]
Jill Cargman
I've seen it. Happen with many other people. I've seen many people leave, say they're never coming back. And I mean instructors. Oh, yeah. High up instructors. Yeah, they're never coming back. And three months later, six months later, they're back on the schedule. I mean, like original instructors.
- [34:17]
Ian
Here Ian talks about the various theater tricks he would try while teaching.
- [34:21]
Ariana Grande
The reason that there is a. There's a little metal strip on the back of the podiums that I don't know if anybody can see. The new bikes are very light. The old bikes before that, the SoulCycle branded bikes, they were a little bit heavier. Before that, they had the Schwinn bikes. And the Schwinn bikes were so flimsy, you would rip a pedal off, like, with your foot. I remember one of my friends ripped a pedal off and had to hobble out of the studio and be like, there's an entire pedal stuck to my foot. But the older bikes were a little bit heavier, and people would do all their little tricks on the bike. Cause you're putting on a show for these people. I remember Danny was really good at, like, he would put, like, one foot on the pedal and one foot. Foot on his saddle, and it would just be like, kind of like riding it, like, look kind of central. But it was very impressive to watch. And String, who taught in Scarsdale, String don't play for anyone that used to take strings class.
- [35:13]
Cynthia Erivo
He.
- [35:14]
Ariana Grande
Before that little metal railing was in the back of the podium. He flipped his bike forward off of the podium. And so from that point, from a safety standpoint, they had to put this metal guard on the back that clipped over the back wheel so that the bike wouldn't fly over you. So I did similar tricks to get people to watch. I would unclip my right foot and then put both of my feet on my left pedal. And then I would ride the pedal in a circle for a couple of times while popping my hands off the handlebars. And then my last pop, I would grab the handlebar and the saddle, unclip my left foot, and then swing my legs around swiftly to land on top of the handlebars. So I'd end up sitting on top of the handlebars.
- [35:59]
Ian
And this is just to hold your attention, right?
- [36:01]
Ariana Grande
Yeah. It's strictly style. It had nothing to do with fitness. It was just like me being a showgirl. And so this one time, I do my little trick. I'm having them on the handlebars. I do my fantasia moments, and then I get them to isolate on the bike. Isolation is when you're holding onto your handlebars, but you're keeping your entire body completely still while you just let your legs move. So it's like a killer on your quads. So having them do that. And a lot of them have their heads down when they're doing that. Because I trained all of them. Like, neck should be elongated. Look like, keep your gaze down. I prop myself up off the handlebars to jump off, and I felt my shorts had hooked onto the middle bar, the push up bar, and my body was already starting to travel forward, so I couldn't catch myself. So my shorts kind of like twisted me and flipped me. And instead of a graceful landing onto the floor, I face planted really, really hard directly in between two bikes. So I walked outside. Sarah Ferguson, that manager, was actually the manager of the studio at the time. So I was like, fergie, you're gonna want to pull that camera footage. And so she pulled the camera footage. You can see the video of me falling off the bike. And it's become a legendary story around the studios. I've heard people that trained years after me. I run into them and I'm like, I'm Ian. And they're like, oh, my God, you're the Ian that fell off the bike.
- [37:28]
Ian
Here's an anonymous studio manager reflecting on Janet Fitzgerald as the Madonna of Spin.
- [37:35]
Ariana Grande
She used to do this class every weekend called the Freak show. And it was a free and open space for all of her performer friends to come and just do their thing. It was almost like being at the box and she would have, you know.
- [37:48]
Jill Cargman
Almost like aerial acrobats.
- [37:50]
Ariana Grande
If she could. If we could install it in the ceiling, it would turn into Cirque du Soleil. Some people, I would take the class and just watch them sit and watch the entertainment where they almost forget they're working out and they're just enthralled with what's happening in front of them.
- [38:07]
Ian
In 2015, news spread that SoulCycle was potentially going public after filing for IPO paperwork. This, of course, never materialized when SoulCycle.
- [38:19]
Jill Cargman
Was talking about putting out their IPO and going public. And we had our social media training that day. And so she was talking about how we handle social media, how and how, you know, when there are articles about Seoul, you know, we don't comment on them. And she was like, there's something out today about Seoul going public and issuing their ipo. And like, we haven't really confirmed that yet. So, you know, if anybody asks you about it, don't say anything. Fine. One of the instructors in the training program. Hayes raises his hand and he's like, what is going public? Like, we'll tell you later. Then they continue to talk about social media. Social media. And they're like, the best way to. To communicate with your writers is through Snapchat. And I was like, what's Snapchat? And he's. Hayes is like, it's this, this, and this. And I was like, all right, I'll tell you all about going public, and you explain everything to do with Snapchat with me. That's the way to communicate with the writers. I mean, there was a. Like, no. No shirtless pictures, no shirtless glasses. I mean, that went out the window immediately, right? Nothing filmed in the room. But then you could post some things filmed in the room. It was like a secret. But then it wasn't.
- [39:25]
Cynthia Erivo
I got in trouble one time for taking pictures.
- [39:28]
Ariana Grande
I was in Turks and Caicos, and.
- [39:30]
Cynthia Erivo
And I posted this picture of myself with my hands across my boobs with no top on, but you can't see anything. And, like, I got the phone call.
- [39:39]
Ariana Grande
You know, jenna, you gotta take that down.
- [39:41]
Cynthia Erivo
You know, I was like, what are you talking about? You know, so we would rebel.
- [39:45]
Ariana Grande
And, like, eventually they just stopped monitoring our social.
- [39:49]
Cynthia Erivo
Because it just.
- [39:50]
Ariana Grande
Whatever.
- [39:50]
Cynthia Erivo
But I was like, come on.
- [39:51]
Jill Cargman
I taught two classes back to back. And our fearless CEO would take one class and her husband would take the other class because one would stay with the kids. This is Melanie Whelan.
- [40:02]
Ariana Grande
Yes.
- [40:02]
Jill Cargman
I was trying not to say her name, but there I said it, and I. Like Melanie Whalen. I just want to say that I think she got a lot of shit. I don't think she deserved it all. Anyway, she was taking the class. Her. Her husband took the class before, and they would switch over so they could watch their kids. And I remember, you know, the barn is not the studio where you turn the lights off, right? So it's, like, bright. Everybody can see everything. And I'm like, all right, let's start. Close the doors. Close the doors. And I look into those crash doors, and there is Melanie Whalen fully tongue kissing her husband. Like, goodbye. Like, it's just so wild, so funny. Do not say that.
- [40:33]
Ariana Grande
I said that.
- [40:35]
Jill Cargman
You know, people on their phones. Miss, get off your phone. Please put your phone away. I'm sorry. My pool is at 101 degrees. I have to.
- [40:44]
Ariana Grande
Oh, I don't want to say her name. But it was on the Upper west side. We used to do everything for the clients back in the day to make sure that they could get into class. I've seen people get their dry cleaning picked up by the staff before. There was a woman who couldn't find parking. She was running late to Janet's class, which Janet doesn't like it when people are late. So she couldn't find parking. And she was calling the studio and the asm, the assistant studio manager at the time, Fergie, ran out and the writer gave Fergie her keys. And the rider went into the studio, and Fergie drove her porsche around for 45 minutes. Just drove around the block so that this woman could take her class and not get a parking ticket.
- [41:32]
Ian
Here's Miles, who we got great stories from in the series.
- [41:36]
Ariana Grande
We supplied New York City and every other city with tampons because they were the nice ones. Soul Cycle was always, like, giving you nice products. Like, I don't know if you remember back in the day, but they were just like. I only know this because I used to do ordering. But, like, the pearl, those are nice. People would take handfuls of those. We would literally fill up the women's room with the pearls. And then we'd come in after a class and it'd be empty. Someone literally just took it and dumped it in their bag. Although If I'm paying $40 for a class, I would probably take all the pearls too. But then we switched to OB and nobody was stealing those. We did have another Soul Cycle person who was really part of the community pass away that I. I knew, and that. That was like a whole different situation. Her name was Kelly Hurley. She was a manager, and she got hit by a. A truck while she was riding her bike. And she passed away. And that was, like, really sad. And there was a big memorial for her at the 92nd Street Y. And like, Junior Elizabeth came back and. As well as a lot of old employees. And that was really sad. And those are the times where you, like, kind of like, are like, this company kind of feels like a family. Because Kelly had been there since before me. I mean, I even got my brother to work at SoulCycle for two seconds, and he was like, I'm fucking outta here. I can't do this.
- [42:52]
Jill Cargman
Yeah, subbing. I. I feel like you got either a phone call or an email, depending on when. How far out it was last minute. It was usually a phone call. And the positive portion of subbing is that if you were subbing for somebody that was like a sellout, like a Stacy, like a Janet, like a Sam. If the class was sold out when you picked it up, that was what you got paid for. Like, if people started to drop out because you weren't their instructor, you were still covered with whatever was in there. So that was the perk of it. But on the flip side, having the feeling of, like, well, they don't want me, you know, so, like, I. It's just, why do I want to do this? Am I supposed to go and pretend that I'm Sam or pretend that I'm Janet or, like, do whatever they would do? No, I want to do me. So I remember when I subbed in SoHo once, and this front desk person called me. They were like, I have a five and a six that. That Sam's not able to teach. Can you come in and do it? And I looked at it, and I was like, yeah, sure, I'll do it. He's like, both. And I said, yeah, no problem. He's like, oh, my God. I just called, like, 30 instructors, and everybody said no. And I was like, well, thanks. I'm glad to know I'm 31, but, yeah, I'll be there.
- [44:02]
Ahmet
You know, I didn't really know how to get cardio into my life, and Sol was just. It was such an immediate fix for that. And I really wanted to wear the clothes. And I loved how there was, like, a drop every month, and it was exciting on the first of the month, like, to see what the new clothes would be, but I couldn't fit into them. You know, I was too large. I was probably a 16 or 18 or so at the time. And there was an email, your Soul Matters, that it was like their customer service email, essentially. And I wrote them and I, you know, and I said, listen, I love writing, and I really want to wear your clothes, and I can't because they don't fit. And, you know, it's really embarrassing, and it's hard, and it's hard for me to write this email even. Is there anything you can do? And, you know, they were so gracious, and they immediately replied. I think they understood that they had a live one here, right? Like, they definitely knew that. And within a couple of days, actually messengered me a bag of clothes that I could wear. And they all fit, and they were beautiful, and I wore them, like, to death. And it came in that really special silver, you know, SoulCycle bag that was like their shopping bag, but it was also a status symbol, because when you were walking around the city and you had a tote just to carry your. Your crap in, that's the bag you used. And it was really important, I think, for me to show everybody listen, I ride at SoulCycle. I mean, it was important for me to be seen as a writer, even though I wasn't maybe a typical writer in my size. I thought that was important. And I think they kind of had me for life when they sent me that bag.
- [45:55]
Ian
I talked to Ahmet about how our time at SoulCycle coincided with the years that Gaga was releasing Born this Way Art Pop. We were hearing this music for the first time in in class. Spotify was just not as prevalent as it is today. Madonna's Rebel Heart album was released in 2015, where Bitch I Madonna was seemingly engineered to be a song you can ride to.
- [46:22]
Ariana Grande
And actually this observation that you've made has gotten me thinking about something that is maybe a little bit out of SoulCycle's control. What many writers and observers, political scientists, cultural observers have described as the quote unquote flattening of culture. Everything sort of sounds the same. First of all, there's too much of everything. There's just too much of everything all the time. Everything basically sounds a little bit the same. And I think that part of the challenge is like the music of today just is not like that is not the same and therefore cannot provide that same experience. And I think you are totally right that In a way, SoulCycle is also very much a product of its time. And as is true for institutions, companies, brands, experiences all throughout history, there's a moment for everything and then there's a moment for everything else. Yes, we tried Charitable after all the magic yes, it's Sagittarius.
- [47:37]
Ian
Cult of Body and Soul is created, executive produced and narrated by Jess Rothschild, sound design by Caitlin White, theme song and original music composed by Elizabeth Ziff Cinderella by the band Betty.
- [48:06]
Ariana Grande
Sad to die yes, we tried to try to for after all the magic D yes, it's sad to tell we're better after breaking the spells but raise a glass of wine Two months upon a hey there. I'm Alan Seales, host of the Theater Podcast, a weekly podcast that takes you behind the scenes with intimate, personal conversations that include the biggest stars on Broadway, TV and film. My podcast has over 350 episodes with guests including Stephanie J. Block, Kerry Butler, James Monroe Iglehart, Andrew Barth Feldman, Alex Brightman, Patti LuPone, Ramin Karimlou, Brian Stokes Mitchell, and even TV stars like Isaac Mizrahi, Ariana Maddox, Michael Urie, Eddie Izzard, and literally so, so many more. My guests have spilled secrets, told coming out stories, discussed their fears and successes, and even had huge epiphanies live in the episodes, so you're bound to hear some things from my guests that you've never heard anywhere else. I've also got many deep dive takeovers on the podcast, which are consecutive episodes dedicated to cast and creatives from a single show like the Outsiders, Back to the Future and Juliet wicked, Beetlejuice, Hadestown, Frozen 6. I could go on. Can you tell I like theater? I've definitely got something you're gonna enjoy, so go ahead, search for your favorite star and listen to their episode. You can find all the info about the podcast at BPN FMTP on the Broadway Podcast Network or anywhere podcasts are found. If you need that link again, it's BPN FM TTP.