Climate Change in the Pacific Islands

Summary

Curiosity Weekly: Climate Change in the Pacific Islands Release Date: May 14, 2025

Hosted by Dr. Samantha Yamin

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of Curiosity Weekly, host Dr. Samantha Yamin delves into the pressing issue of climate change in the Pacific Islands, highlighting the disproportionate impact on these communities despite their minimal contribution to global greenhouse gas emissions. In honor of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, Dr. Yamin emphasizes the resilience and innovative responses of Pacific Islander communities to the climate crisis. The episode also explores groundbreaking advancements in renewable energy technology, such as artificial photosynthesis.

Celebrating Pacific Islander Scientific Contributions

Dr. Yamin begins by celebrating the significant scientific and technological achievements of Asian American, Native Hawaiian, and Pacific Islander communities. She introduces several pioneering figures who have made lasting impacts in their respective fields:

• Dr. Fay del Mundo: A renowned pediatrician from Manila who established the first pediatrics hospital in the Philippines. Dr. del Mundo's compassionate approach and integration of traditional Filipino healing practices with modern medicine are highlighted as exemplary contributions. Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson remarks at [02:30]:

  "She was bringing high level pediatric care to places where that's difficult to do, especially where there isn't electricity."

• Nainoa Thompson: A native Hawaiian navigator reviving ancient ocean navigation techniques using a star compass, demonstrating the blend of traditional knowledge with modern resilience strategies.

• Dr. David T. Wong: A Hong Kong-born neuroscientist whose research on serotonin laid the foundation for the development of Prozac, the first widely used selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI). Johnson notes at [06:20]:

  "His early work was studying how serotonin is processed in the brain and how it's taken up in the spaces between brain cells."

• Dr. Flossy Wong Stahl: A virologist and molecular biologist whose groundbreaking work in cloning HIV genes significantly advanced the understanding and treatment of AIDS. She is credited with being instrumental in the development of HIV diagnostics and antiretroviral therapies.

The Fragile Ecosystems of the Pacific Islands

Dr. Yamin transitions to the core topic, emphasizing the vulnerability of Pacific Island ecosystems. Despite contributing less than 1% to global greenhouse gas emissions, these islands face severe consequences from rising sea levels and coral bleaching, which threaten both biodiversity and the livelihoods of local communities.

Guest Insights with Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson

Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson, an assistant professor at Cornell University specializing in natural resources and environmental studies, joins the discussion to provide an in-depth perspective on the socio-ecological impacts of climate change in the Pacific Islands.

Impact on Daily Life: Johnson discusses how climate change exacerbates daily challenges for island residents, particularly through events like mass coral bleaching and intensified tropical storms. At [09:24], he explains:

"About a decade ago, Saipan had its first severe mass coral bleaching event, where in some parts of the island, we lost up to 75% of our corals."

These environmental changes disrupt fisheries, cultural practices, and overall community resilience. Tropical storms have become more intense and frequent, transforming what were once manageable "banana tree storms" into devastating category-five typhoons within hours.

Socio-Ecological Systems and Relationality: Johnson introduces the concept of relationality, fundamental to Pacific Islander cultures, which views humans and the natural world as interconnected and interdependent. He shares the Hawaiian creation story, the Kumulipo, to illustrate this deep-seated relationship:

"Humans and the more than human entities that we share our space with on this planet are not different. In fact, we're one in the same."

This perspective shapes how communities understand and respond to environmental changes, emphasizing a familial responsibility to protect and adapt to their surroundings.

Community-Driven Conservation: Johnson advocates for community-driven conservation as a more effective and sustainable approach compared to top-down policies. He highlights the importance of integrating traditional knowledge with scientific research to enhance climate resilience. For instance, in Hawaii, there are numerous specific terms for rain, each tied to particular cultural practices and environmental observations, showcasing a nuanced understanding of local climate patterns that global models often overlook.

Marine Protected Areas (MPAs): The discussion shifts to Marine Protected Areas (MPAs), their establishment, and the challenges they face. Johnson explains that MPAs function similarly to national parks, aiming to preserve ecosystems by limiting certain activities. However, their effectiveness is threatened by the transient nature of executive orders, which can lead to the retraction of protections, as seen with the Pacific Remote Islands Marine National Monument.

At [19:47], Johnson states:

"Conservation by executive order is probably not the lasting durable solution we want for a number of reasons. One, it's top down and all the best science tells us that bottom up, community-driven conservation tends to have better outcomes."

He further elaborates on his research involving the Ocean Novelty Index, a metric developed to assess how marine environments will change due to climate crises. This tool helps in strategic planning for MPAs by anticipating future ecological conditions, ensuring that protections remain relevant as species migrate in response to warming waters.

Breakthrough in Artificial Photosynthesis

Transitioning from climate impacts to innovative solutions, Dr. Yamin introduces a fascinating segment on artificial photosynthesis. Researchers from the University of Cambridge and UC Berkeley have developed a device resembling a flower, made from copper nanoflowers, that can convert carbon dioxide into usable fuels and chemicals using solar energy. This technology not only offers a sustainable alternative to fossil fuels but also actively removes carbon dioxide from the atmosphere.

Key highlights include:

• Copper Nanoflowers: Serve as effective catalysts, enhancing the efficiency of the conversion process.
• Glycerol Utilization: Incorporating glycerol, a byproduct of biodiesel production, enhances energy efficiency and produces valuable compounds for cosmetics and pharmaceuticals.
• Efficiency Boost: The system produces hydrocarbons 200 times more effectively than previous models.

Dr. Yamin emphasizes the potential of this technology to revolutionize how we produce fuels and materials, while also addressing carbon emissions. However, she notes that further advancements are needed to improve durability and scalability before commercial application.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the interconnectedness of global ecosystems and the importance of supporting vulnerable communities through both traditional knowledge and cutting-edge scientific research. Dr. Yamin encourages listeners to engage with and support the efforts of Pacific Islander communities in building resilience against climate change, while also being optimistic about technological innovations like artificial photosynthesis that offer new pathways to sustainability.

Notable Quotes:

• Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson at [14:27]:

  "It's not just an economics question or a physics question or a biology question that we're trying to address with the climate crisis. It's really a relational question of how are people's deep, intimate relationships with the natural world being impacted?"

• Dr. Samantha Yamin at [30:34]:

  "We're actively pulling carbon dioxide out of the atmosphere and turning it into something useful—fuels, chemicals, and materials that we can make without harming the planet."

Final Thoughts

This episode of Curiosity Weekly offers a nuanced exploration of climate change impacts in the Pacific Islands, underscored by the resilience and innovative spirit of its people. It also highlights promising technological advancements that could play a pivotal role in mitigating future environmental challenges. Through insightful discussions and expert interviews, Dr. Yamin provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of both the human and technological dimensions of the climate crisis.

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Produced by Wheelhouse DNA:

• Senior Producer & Editorial Correspondent: Teresa Carey
• Associate Producer: Chiara Noni
• Audio Engineer: Nick Kharismi
• Head of Production: Cassie Berman

Stay Connected: Leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts and suggest topics you'd like to hear about in future episodes!

Transcript

[Marc Maron]

Hey, it's Marc Maron from WTF here to let you know that this podcast is brought to you by Progressive Insurance. And I'm sure the reason you're listening to this podcast right now is because you chose it well. Choose Progressives Name your price tool and you could find insurance options that fit your budget so you can pick the best one for your situation. Who doesn't like choice? Try [e-mail] and now some legal info. Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates Price and coverage match Limited by state law not available in all states.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

There are places in the world where natural beauty can be both a blessing and a burden, depending how you think about it. Take Bora Bora for example. It's known for its white sand beaches, turquoise water and lush greenery. The stunning scenery makes it one of the most sought after vacation destinations in the whole world. But some of us take that picture perfect postcard landscape for granted and forget just how fragile the ecosystems of the Pacific Islands really are. Welcome to Curiosity Weekly from Discovery. I'm your host Dr. Samantha Yamin, and in honor of Asian American, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we're exploring how people from the Pacific Islands are responding to the climate crisis and how the rest of the world can better support these communities and our planet. It's a big topic, so I've brought in Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson to help shed some light. I'll also talk about scientists may have created artificial photosynthesis which if it works, could be a huge breakthrough when it comes to renewable energy tech. Let's dive in. Since May is Asian American and Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander Heritage Month in the US and also Asian Heritage Month in Canada, we wanted to celebrate some of the incredible scientific and tech accomplishments from these communities. Honestly, we love any reason to celebrate scientists from around the world and these.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Individuals have made such a huge impact with their work changing the way we.

[Unknown]

Understand the world around us.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Let's dive in.

[Unknown]

First up, I have to tell you.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

About the iconic Dr. Fay del Mundo. Dr. Fay del Mundo is a pediatrician, born in Manila, trained in Manila and the US and she started the first pediatrics hospital in the Philippines. She had a bunch of siblings and three passed away in infancy at the age of 11.

[Unknown]

She also lost her older sister from.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Appendicitis and that was really what inspired her to go into medicine. So she studied medical school in the.

[Unknown]

Philippines and then went and did five.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Years in the US and Boston. Dr. Fay Del Mondo is really cool to me because she was bringing high level pediatric Care to places where that's difficult to do, especially like where there isn't electricity. She was able to find a way to still create incubators based on the local materials. So you might think that's not a big deal because we can just do incubators with electricity, but that's not a reality for a lot of people. So she found a way to make it happen. I also thought it was really interesting that she was practicing medicine in a whole other country as a woman in a place where there were not a lot of women. And in fact, women weren't even allowed to study medicine at Harvard Medical School at the time. So just thinking about being someone who looked different, someone who's a woman in a whole other country, I just think it's incredible that then she was able to take what she learned, go back to her home country, establish the first pediatrics hospital, which is still running. And every tribute I read about her talked about her bedside manner, how compassionate and empathetic she was, and how she integrated the more traditional practices of Filipino healing called helot, with what she learned in her medical training. And a little juicy fact, she's often credited as the first woman to go to Harvard Medical School, but there are really spotty records. And in fact, I don't think Harvard was even accepting. I think she had already done her medical training by the time she got to Boston, and. And they weren't even expecting women at the time, so I don't think she was the first. But in fact, that makes her more impressive because she was there trying to be respected as a doctor, doing rotations. And I can, like, just seeing my friends who are physicians now in Toronto and what they go through. I can only imagine what it was like for her 80 years ago. And she was not from the country. So the layers. Now, I'm someone who uses the Maps app on my phone to go anywhere, even places where I should know where I'm going.

[Unknown]

Now.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Imagine trying to navigate not just familiar streets, but uncharted waters without the use of gps. Well, I found it fascinating that Nainoa Thompson, a native Hawaiian navigator, is bringing back an ancient way of navigating the ocean without the use of any of the modern tools we're used to relying on. In fact, they use a star compass, and it's this basic mental concep construct for navigation. It's not easy because you have to keep track of all these different things, like how fast you're sailing, where you started sailing from, but it uses the stars and where they rise and set with respect to the horizon of the ocean to help navigate when you're out in open waters. Nainoa Thompson is a native Hawaiian navigator who was the first person to bring back this more traditional way of navigation into the modern day. And in fact, fact is leading a lot of revival of the art and science for this method of wayfinding. Now, if you've ever taken any kind of antidepressant or you've even heard of Prozac, not the band, but the actual medication, you have Dr. David T. Wong to thank. A Hong Kong born neuroscientist who grew up inspired to study medicine after seeing the Eli Lilly logo on his grandmother's diabetes medication. And it turns out years later, he would end up going to work there. And while there, he studied serotonin, a brain chemical. His early work was studying how serotonin is processed in the brain and how it's taken up in the spaces between brain cells.

[Unknown]

And eventually this led them to discovering.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

What we now call Prozac. And the way these types of medicines work is they leave serotonin out in between brain cells for longer. So any lower mood you may have from less serotonin, well, now they've made serotonin more available. And this work was really foundational in paving the way for human trials. It was approved in 1987 and became the first widely used selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor. It's a type of antidepressant a lot of people may be familiar with because it's helped millions improve symptoms of depression and it's changed the way we treat the condition ever since. Dr. Flossy Wong Stahl is a virologist.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

And molecular biologist and a Hong Kong.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

American who did a lot of innovative work at the nih, including being the first scientist to clone HIV and determine the function of its genes.

[Unknown]

This research that she did laid the.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Groundwork for proving that viruses caused aids. This work was foundational for being able.

[Unknown]

To develop diagnostics for HIV as well.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

As the different drugs that we have now to make living with HIV much more manageable. She was doing this work in the early 1980s, which was really the peak of the AIDS crisis. And so without her, I don't even want to imagine how much worse things could have been.

[Unknown]

How do you make an Airbnb a vrbo? Picture a vacation rental with a host who's showing you every room like you've never seen a house before. Now get rid of them. There you go. No host ever. Now it's a vrbo. Make it a vrbox.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

People living in.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Coastal communities, especially across the Pacific islands.

[Unknown]

Are among the first to experience the.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Full force of climate change.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Though their communities contribute less than 1% of global greenhouse gas emissions, they face.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Some of the most immediate and severe consequences. From rising sea levels to coral bleaching.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

The Pacific islands are also home to some of the most rich biodiverse ecosystem systems. What happens in the Pacific impacts the entire planet. As we mark Asian American, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander Heritage Month, we want to center the voices of people from the Pacific Islands, highlighting their unique challenges, lived experiences, and the deep ecological knowledge.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

They'Ve cultivated over generations. In doing so, we hope to better.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Understand how supporting these communities and knowledge systems is essential to long term climate resilience.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

To help us do that, I'm joined by Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Dr. Johnson is an assistant professor of.

[Unknown]

Natural resources and the environment at Cornell University.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Thanks so much for joining me, Stephen.

[Unknown]

Thanks, Sam. Happy to be here.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Thrilled to learn from you. Now, you were born and raised on the island of Saipan, located in Micronesia, part of the northern Pacific region that faces serious risks from climate crisis. Sea level rising being just one of them. Can you share with us how these changes are affecting daily life for the.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

People from that region?

[Unknown]

So Saipan is a stunningly beautiful place in the world. It's a small island. It's only about 12 miles long and.

3 miles wide, which means it's highly.

Dependent on the ocean. But climate change is making that relationship between the people of the island on Saipan and the resources that depend on much more precarious.

About a decade ago, Saipan had its.

First severe mass coral bleaching event, where in some parts of the island, we lost up to 75% of our corals, which drastically impacted the community's access to fishery resources and other cultural practices. And in addition to the coral bleaching impacts, the islands have also been experiencing tropical storms that have been intensifying in.

Ways that haven't occurred in the past. So typhoons, as we call them in that part of the world, aren't an uncommon part of life there. In fact, they sometimes call the Mariana.

Islands Typhoon Alley because of how often storms come through.

So the island and its people are.

Very ready for storms when they do come.

But due to climate change, the rate.

In which these storms are intensifying has really, really increased.

So you go from what is usually what we call a banana tree storm.

Where it's just a tropical storm that knocks over some of the banana plants, but you go from that into category.

Five hurricanes and just a matter of.

Typhoons, rather in a matter of hours.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

It's easy to see, even as someone not living there, the intensification. And I have some friends from the Caribbean experiencing hurricanes on the other side and just knowing what they go through first, like seeing that experience through them, it's just not great. And so I'm glad we get to talk about it and learn from you. A lot of your research is looking at the deep interconnection between communities and their environments, something I've heard you describe as socio ecological systems. Can you share a little bit of what it's like as someone with that lived experience and this academic experience, how that joint perspective changes the way that people experience and respond to the climate.

[Unknown]

Crisis today across the Pacific, Whether it's.

The island I grew up in, Saipan, or the island in which my ancestors and my culture is from Hawaii, this concept of relationality is kind of core.

To our cultural beliefs and practices.

And it's this idea that humans and the more than human entities that we.

Share our space with on this planet are not different. In fact, we're one in the same. We come from the same kind of history. And in Hawaiian we have a creation.

Story called the Kumulipo.

And the Kumulipo, it does a couple of things. It tells the story of how humans came to be. But important in that story is that.

We are just the most recent kind.

Kind of line in this genealogy, the succession of life on the planet.

And in the Hawaiian belief, the very first thing created was the coral polyp. And so we have this not just.

Kind of ecosystem service is a term some of your listeners might be familiar with, which is just the benefits we receive from the natural world. But beyond kind of the benefits we receive, we have a relational, familial responsibility to the natural world. And so kind of coming from that cultural, social upbringing, it's really influenced the lens in which I look at the world. So really looking at not just how are humans dependent on the natural world and the environment and the ocean, but really how are we related to it.

And how are we changing that relationship.

And whether that's through human induced climate change and how that's altering our relationship with these animals, plants and ecosystems, or is it in the ways in that conservation, sometimes unintentionally is severing that relationship between people and where they live.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

It's really interesting. I think a lot of the time people's entry point into climate crisis is seeing how it affects them. And I think that this mindset shift to seeing the back and forth is really important even in how we talk about climate and let alone the solutions too.

[Unknown]

Yeah.

And you know, kind of my huge aha moment in figuring out the types.

Of questions and research I wanted to.

Do around the ocean and people's relationship.

To it was because of climate change.

And it was this huge mass coral bleaching event that happened on Saipan in 2013. And I never learned more about that ecosystem and how much it meant to.

My community until then. It was in this moment of crisis.

In this moment of actually deep trauma.

Around seeing the reefs turn these ghostly.

White colors, that I was having these different types of conversations with people who.

I've known my whole life about what the reefs mean to them. And it really showed how it's not.

Just an economics question or a physics question or a biology question that we're.

Trying to address with the climate crisis.

It's really a relational question of how are people's deep, intimate relationships with the.

Natural world being impacted?

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Knowing that you and your people are.

[Unknown]

Experiencing the impacts of climate change firsthand.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

And seeing things intensify, what kind of.

[Unknown]

Preparations are taking place?

Yeah.

So in the kind of domain in.

Which I'm conducting my research with community partners, it's really almost a doubling down on that.

Relationality is the approach that we've taken and we're pursuing and it's recognizing that so many of these impacts and drivers.

Are happening at a global and distant scale from the Pacific islands. But we have all this intimate knowledge of these very, very specific places.

So for example, Hawaii has anywhere from two dozen to four dozen different names for rain alone.

And some of those names for rain are island specific. And not only are they island specific, but they only happen and occur on a certain side of the island.

And that is that type of like.

Fine scale intimate knowledge of place that climate models don't have. Climate models might be quite good at predicting or modeling changes in total rainfall.

Which is a useful metric to have when you're planning for the future.

But some of these cultural relationships are built around much more specific ideas of what is precipitation, that it is this very specific type of rain that indicates these very specific types of practices.

And so with the communities I work.

With and across the Pacific, what I'm.

Seeing is a reinvestment, a doubling down.

On those very specific place based knowledge systems.

Recognizing. Recognizing that if we can not just.

Kind of remember and use those now.

But train and teach the next generation.

How to relate to their environment in this very special, intimate way that that's a form of adaptation that can really.

Be embodied and it's not just, you know, a sea wall or, or, you.

Know, raising your house on stilts, but it's actually passing that knowledge down to the next generation so that it doesn't.

Get lost and that that adaptation can.

Kind of grow with the next generation.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

That's so cool to think about it as an adaptation like that. Intergenerational knowledge transfer. I love it. I'm wondering if you can explain to me what marine protected areas are and how they actually work in practice. Now I'm asking because it seems especially relevant right now. Protections can be put in place, but also rolled back like we just saw.

[Unknown]

With the Pacific Remote Islands Marine National Monument.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

After more than a decade, it's now open again to commercial fishing because of the US President's executive order. So how do we go about protecting parts of the ocean, especially when everything is so interconnected and those protections aren't necessarily permanent?

[Unknown]

Yeah, so marine protected areas, I think.

Kind of the way I start to.

Explain them, because I think most people.

While we all live on a very.

Blue ocean planet, we tend to think.

Of ourselves as very terrestrial, land based beings.

And so marine protected areas function in.

Some similar fashion to the way that national parks work on land, with the idea that there are areas where we're.

Trying to limit the number and types.

Of activities that happen in an area.

In order to allow the biology and.

Ecosystems of that area to in some cases recover, in other cases maintain the high levels of biodiversity that they do have.

And so marine protected areas are these.

Spaces in the ocean that we've decided.

That we're going to limit the number.

Of activities that happen in those areas.

And protected areas, or MPAs, as we call them, they can be very small.

But they can also be quite large.

Like the Pacific Islands Heritage Marine National.

Monument, which you referenced, those very large marine monuments are often established through executive order.

And so because of a number of.

American laws that exist, such as the Antiquities act and the insular cases, it allows the executive branch, or the President in particular, to create these large protected areas both on land and in the ocean. You might be familiar with things like Bears Ears National Monument.

The same type of legislation enables the.

Government to create these areas, but because.

It'S an executive power, it's at the.

Whims of the current executive.

So a lot of these big marine national monuments that we have, the Pacific Remote Islands, one Papahanaumokuakea, the Marianas Trench.

Marine National Monument, they were all created by Executive order by President George W. Bush. It was a part of his blue legacy as he was leaving office.

The story is that Laura Bush, the First lady, was invited out to the.

Pacific to see these beautiful areas and.

She was convinced of the necessity of protecting these areas.

And so she pulled George aside and said, I think you should do this. And it happened. So it's part of his blue legacy.

One of those non intuitive combinations of a president who we might not think.

Of as being a champion of the ocean, being a champion of the ocean. His successor, President Obama, expanded some of those areas.

So expanding the Papahanamokua Kea Marine National.

Monument as well as the Pacific remote islands. Now we're seeing a retraction of some.

Of those to allow fishing.

It's a tenuous way to do conservation. Conservation by executive order is probably not not the lasting durable solution we want for a number of reasons.

One, it's top down and all the best science tells us that bottom up.

Community driven and oriented conservation tends to.

Have better outcomes, not just for the.

Environment, but particularly for those communities who are adjacent to those protected areas.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Yeah, you'd think you'd want to hear from the experts with the firsthand experience and research. So speaking of that research, something that you do is trying to figure out where marine protected areas are, should be if they should expand or move. And part of that is developing a measure of ocean novelty. I found it really interesting because you're.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Trying to study how marine environments will.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Change due to climate crisis so that.

[Unknown]

We can figure out what needs protecting.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

And how it will evolve in the future.

[Unknown]

Can you tell us more what you've.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Learned about this so far?

[Unknown]

So it was not the original plan to do this research.

But then 2020 rolls around and I'm stuck in my apartment in beautiful Corvallis, Oregon for what at that time seemed.

Like a giant question mark.

So rather than kind of doing what.

All my friends were doing and watching.

Tiger King, I decided I was going to learn how to work with climate models. It's a skill I've always wanted to.

To learn about how to do.

And through some conversations with my advisor.

We were always asking this question of.

Both fully accepting that we're living in a time of rapid climate change, imagining, well, where in the world would I.

Be able to go in 50 years to find ocean conditions that look like the ones that I grew up in? And he grew up in coastal England.

I grew up.

In the Mariana Islands. So very different parts of the world, but we had the same love and connection to the Ocean.

And so just from that kind of.

Idea, we developed this metric called the.

Ocean novelty index, which is looking at.

Biogeochemical changes of the ocean and kind.

Of seeing in the relative to today.

Where would those conditions end up emerging in 50 years, in 80 years down the line.

And we start to see that we.

End up in some parts of the world, particularly the tropical places where we're already at the upper kind of thermal limit for a lot of the ecosystems.

There is that those conditions enter the.

State of novelty or kind of unknown ocean conditions. But then you can find kind of.

The opposite of a novel ecosystem, which we're calling analogs, is that there are.

Places in the world, sometimes quite far.

From where you might think they are.

Today, that do resemble those conditions. And so we kind of took this very unconstrained idea of novelty and analog.

And wanted to apply that to marine protected areas. Because marine protected areas as just explaining.

They actually take a long time to get up and running off the ground.

So one of these marine monuments, the Marylands Trench Marine National Monument, was declared in 2009. Its management plan wasn't finalized until 2024.

So 15 years to figure out how.

We'Re going to manage this thing, you know, and at that rate, you know.

The, the conditions within the marine protected area itself have already changed.

And so we've got climate change accelerating.

At a very, very fast rate. And we have policy at the same.

Time that's operating at what I like.

To call tongue in cheek sublinear. It's even going slower than one day.

At a time in order to get.

Management out the door. And so we took this idea of ocean novelty and trying to figure out.

Well, where would we want to put or move protected areas?

As we expect, maybe some of these species like tuna, which are highly migratory, but we might want to protect them. So how would we move these protected areas along with the species that we're concerned about? So we're not kind of spending all this time, this political will, this social.

Capital building these conservation areas that end up not actually having anything that we were planning on conserving inside of it, because species are adapting just as people are adapting. So tuna are. They don't like it when it gets too hot.

They already run very hot. So they're going to go where the water is just the right temperature for them.

And if we've kind of locked our conservation planning or marine protected areas where.

They are today and we don't keep.

Up with where the ecology is going, you know, it doesn't it doesn't make for good climate planning.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Thank you so much for your time and expertise, Steven.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

It was so much fun to learn from you.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

I learned a lot.

[Unknown]

Oh, this has been a real pleasure.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Imagine an artificial flower, not quite like the silk flowers in fake floral arrangements.

[Unknown]

Try imagining it made from copper, and imagine that it actually takes carbon dioxide from the air and turns it into usable fuels.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Now, that is not a flower you can buy at Michael's, but that is happening right now. Researchers at the University of Cambridge and.

[Unknown]

UC Berkeley have developed a device that.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Does just that, and it could impact how we think about carbon emissions and sustainable energy.

[Unknown]

We produce a lot of hydrocarbons for.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Liquid fuels, chemicals, and plastics, and almost.

[Unknown]

All of them currently come from fossil fuels.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

But this team found a way to.

[Unknown]

Do it using solar energy so we.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Can get the clean chemicals and fuels.

[Unknown]

Without any additional carbon emissions. In fact, they even use up sequestered.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Carbon dioxide, capturing some of that excess carbon dioxide in our atmosphere and turning it into something useful.

[Unknown]

That's what the artificial flower does.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Essentially, the leaf mimics the process of.

[Unknown]

Photosynthesis, nature's way of turning sunlight into energy. But it has this high tech twist.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

With the help of metallic flowers added.

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This device takes carbon dioxide and uses it to create hydrocarbons like ethylene and ethane.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

These are the building blocks for fuels, chemicals, and even plastics.

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The researchers who published their work in.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

The journal Nature Catalysis use copper nanoflowers.

[Unknown]

You heard me right. Nanoflowers made of copper. These tiny flowers are the key to making the process work. Copper is a great catalyst, which means.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

It helps speed up chemical reactions without.

[Unknown]

Being used up in the process.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

And these nanoflowers, they can be adjusted.

[Unknown]

Or tuned to produce different types of molecules, depending how they're structured. This gives researchers flexibility in what they.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Can make, from fuels to chemicals to.

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Materials we use every day.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Another cool part of the device, they.

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Use glycerol instead of just water. Glycerol is a byproduct of biodiesel production, and using it in the process not only makes the whole thing more energy.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Efficient, but it also creates some useful.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Compounds on the side, like those used.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

In cosmetics and pharmaceuticals. This produced hydrocarbons 200 times better than earlier systems. And it could help make other important.

[Unknown]

Products that we need in a more sustainable way. But of course, it's not all perfect yet. The technology is still in early stages.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

While the device works, it needs to be more durable and efficient before it.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Can be used commercially.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

But if this kind of system can be perfected and scaled up, we could.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

Be looking at a future where we.

[Unknown]

Don'T just try to reduce carbon emissions.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

But we're actively pulling carbon dioxide out.

[Unknown]

Of the atmosphere and turning it into.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Something useful fuels, chemicals and materials that we can make without harming the planet. So while we're not quite there yet, this artificial leaf is an exciting way of thinking about what could be a more sustainable future. We are all about following where our curiosity leads us, and we want you.

[Unknown]

To be a part of it too.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Leave us a five star review on Apple Podcasts and include a topic you're interested in and we'll be sure to investigate it further on a future episode.

[Unknown]

Like have you ever wondered just how.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Much garbage and junk is in space and what to do about it? We'll find out next week.

[Dr. Steven Manaoakamai Johnson]

And if you're looking for something to.

[Dr. Samantha Yamin]

Watch before then, Naked and Last One standing premieres Sunday, May 18th at 8pm on Discovery. Thanks for listening For Warner Bros. Discovery Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Teresa Carey, the associate producer is Chiara Noni, our audio engineer is Nick Kharismi and head of production for Wheelhouse DNA is Cassie berman. And I'm Dr. Samantha Yamin. Thanks for listening.

[Unknown]

As a Navy doctor, you know that medicine makes the mission. It's why we let you focus on patience while we focus on administrative hassles and even cover your medical school loans. Start [e-mail] Medicine America's Navy Forged by the Sea.