A (6:37)

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One, if he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply see capitalone.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.

C (7:07)

As a small business owner, you don't really get to clock out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when it's time to hire, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That partner is LinkedIn jobs when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. It's super easy to post your job for free, share it with your network, and manage qualified candidates all in one place. LinkedIn can even help you write your job description and get it in front of the right people. And promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants. 72% of small businesses say LinkedIn helps them find higher quality candidates, and you can double your reach just by adding the hashtag hiringframe to your profile photo. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring. Post your job for free at LinkedIn.com jobsearch that's LinkedIn.com J-O B-E A R C H terms and conditions apply.

B (8:06)

We spend a third of our lives in bed, so why settle for ordinary sheets? Miracle made sheets use NASA inspired silver infused fabric to keep you cool, clean and comfortable all night long. The silver naturally fights bacteria so your sheets stay fresher up to three times longer. That means fewer washes, clearer skin and better sleep. They're soft, breathable and built to last. An affordable luxury that actually delivers. It's not magic, it's science inspired by innovation, designed for everyday life. Because sometimes the simplest upgrades make the biggest difference. This Christmas, upgrade your sleep or give the gift of better rest. Go to trymiracle.com clean to try miracle made sheets today you'll save over 40% and when you use promo code clean, you'll get an extra 20% off plus a free 3 piece towel set from Geico Subconscious News. I'm Tammy Raising thoughts. Tonight. You just left for work and had a nonspecific feeling that something was happening to your place and it wasn't good.

A (9:22)

Dan Exactly, Tammy. It could be smoke damage, theft or just too much caffeine, but you can't stop thinking about it.

B (9:28)

But with renters insurance through Geico, your.

D (9:30)

Stuff is covered so you don't have to worry.

A (9:32)

And that's great because the weekend is coming up and it's chock full of social obligations that are ready to fill that void.

B (9:38)

Oh boy, will they.

D (9:39)

Dad.

B (9:40)

It feels good to worry less.

D (9:41)

It feels good to Geico. Whether or not you consider yourself a dog person, you cannot deny the extreme cuteness of Puppy Bowl. And there's signs to back up our drought of dogs. Research has found that dogs can connect with humans on an emotional level. You'll know it when, say, your dog tilts its head while you're crying or follows you around the house when you're anxious. And it turns out that dogs can have complex emotions too, too like jealousy. And as we discussed in the previous segment, docs have been our loyal companions for over 15,000 years, creating one of the most profound human animal bonds in history. Joining us to explore this more is the wonderful jay Ingram. In 2025, he published his 21st book called the Science of Exploring the Scientific Basis of the Human Animal Bond. Jay is a science broadcaster and writer best known for co hosting Discovery Channel's Daily Planet from 1995 to 2011, which was a big, big fan of. With multiple awards under his belt, including the Royal Society of Canada's McNeil Medal for Public Awareness of Science, Jay has dedicated his career to making science engaging and relevant and is one of my Personal science role models. Welcome to the show, Jay.

E (11:00)

Really happy to be here.

D (11:01)

Sam, thrilled to be chatting with you again. I mean, with over a billion pets sharing our homes worldwide, why do you think there's such a strong desire for pet companionship across various cultures? Where does that come from?

E (11:15)

It's a very good question and I'm not sure there's a really well defined answer, but I think it has something to do with biophilia, that idea that E.O. wilson, the great biologist, really made popular, although it wasn't his idea originally. And that is that we, and it may be innate, we have an attraction to other forms of life which can even include plants, but especially includes animals. And when you look at a couple of other factors, one, we're the only species on Earth that has pets. You know, ants courting aphids for their nectar doesn't really count as owning a pet. And the other thing is that no matter where you go in the world, you will find that people adopt usually, I mean, often dogs and cats, but usually some of the local fauna to be pets. And the way they treat them is very mixed and quite different from our North American experience with dogs and cats. But it's universal. There's something going on. And I think biophilia is the best guess.

D (12:31)

It's interesting. I was going to guess if it has something to do with how social humans are. And so maybe that socialness we project onto pets, but then a lot of other animals are, are really social. So it's interesting that it's so specific to us.

E (12:44)

Yeah, and you may be onto something with that too, because while I said we're the only species that has pets, there have been recorded in the wild two or three, maybe four examples at most, of one species. And it's usually a monkey, like a macaque wandering around with a capuchin, a young capuchin monkey, and keeping it, caring for it, protecting it, feeding it and so on. But, you know, it's. That could be a kidnapping, you know, I mean, it could, that could be. That could be adoption. It's, it's very, very hard to see an example. But I think the sociality of humans is a really, really important part of this.

D (13:31)

Excuse me, Mr. Monkey, what are your intentions with this little guy? You can't exactly ask them. That's hilarious. I mean, even you talking about that, I' oh, that's so cute. And yeah, there's just something about it that you can't, you can't deny. Speaking of cute things, I want to get into like some common dog behaviors. Are there any specific, are there any scientific explanations, like when dogs spin around and wag their tail when they're excited or tilting their heads, do we understand why they do those things?

E (14:01)

Well, let me, let me take one that we do understand and one that we don't with respect to dogs. Although I have to point out that my view of pets broadened. Amazing or incredibly really, when I started researching just what, you know, what defines a pet, as far as I'm concerned. I'll get to the question. But as far as I'm concerned, horses should be pets. Their disadvantages, they can't sleep on your couch, Right. But everything else about a horse and, and many things that I think they have uniquely to themselves would lend themselves to be great pets. And there are parrots too. But anyway, dogs wagging their tails. This is the coolest thing because there's been some really solid research on this. And if you got, you got to imagine standing behind a dog, facing in the same direction, so the dog's head is pointed away from you and something happens. It meets an unfamiliar person, a loved person, another dog, whatever. Watch where the tail goes. If it tends to swing to the right. So on a clock face would be from like 6 till 2 o', clock, you know, going to the right, then it's comfortable, relaxed, happy might be stretching it, but comfortable and relaxed. If it kind of keeps a little bit left, a little bit right, there's some uncertainty there. And if it wags to the left very definitively, it's not happy. There's something going on. Yeah. And the best, the best experiment was they took a small group of beagles and they introduced them on the first day to familiar person, unfamiliar person, cat, and then a picture of an aggressive dog. And dogs do project aggression. And it was just as I described, rightward for the owner, very extremely rightward. Rightward, but not as much cat, kind of uncertain, aggressive dog, absolutely to the left. Then over the next three or four days, they took five minutes a day, that's all with the unfamiliar person and had that person spend five minutes for three days. Next day, person comes in, tails all wagged to the right because they'd gotten to know him or her over like five minutes a day. So that's one. Now you also, I think, mentioned in the intro, dogs tilting their heads, you know, you, you say something to them, something happens, they tilt their head. There was a recent publication showing that ultra smart dogs, you know, those dogs like border collies, that all border collie owners are so Proud of. They are smart. The elite of them are really smart in that you can say, you can describe a toy to them, the giraffe chew toy. It'll go into a room, another room, and pick that one out and bring it back to you. So they, they are really smart. And the, the people doing this experiment to test their knowledge of words also claimed that most of the time those dogs tilted their head to the left more often than not. So they concluded that. And it was consistent. You know, so dog A would do that multiple times. So I was semi convinced by that. But 45%, like is not, you know, 95%. And I've tried my dog anyway, the only time my dog tilts his head is when I whistle. And then he goes like this. And then the second time he goes like this. And there's absolutely no consistency, which I think is actually consistent with my dog, who's a little crazy anyway. Some of those things are well attested. But you get into cats and, you know, their tendency to, like, look like they're kneading dough, I mean, that's interpreted. It is a kitten behavior to encourage milk flow from the mother as an adult. People start to guess here, Sam. I mean, they say, well, it's to be more comfortable or to attract friendly attention. There's a lesson underneath all of this, which is when you know a pet that belongs to somebody else, just ask yourself of what I know about that pet, how much has come from the human telling me that, as opposed to me actually seeing something? And I guarantee it's like 90%, the human, 10%. And I found that you're going to write about the science of pets. You're writing about the science of the pet, and it's human.

D (19:00)

You really blew my mind about the tail wagging thing, though. I had no idea.

E (19:05)

And you know what I mean. The beauty of that, as an example is that as far as I can see, it works 90% of the time. So the next time you see a dog wagging its tail, I mean, and you know, cats, domestic cats, use their tails as a signal by sticking them straight up in the air with a tiny kink at the end, often to signify they're comfortable and they're relaxed. Feral cats don't do that with their tails. They. They do it with their ears, you know, up on the head or flat on the head to indicate displeasure. Nobody really knows why that difference. It might be that feral cats are socializing a lot in the dark, and so a tail held up may not be as significant a signal okay, speaking.

D (19:56)

Of cats, cats as pets have a reputation for being standoffish or kind of indifferent. Now, do you believe that cats can truly love their owners, and is there science to support that notion?

E (20:08)

Well, those are actually two questions. So, yes, I believe that. I do believe that cats can love their owners. The word love is really, really tricky if you're going to say, is there science underpinning this? What I would say, though, is that cats have retained over their, you know, many. Probably the best guess, cat and ancestry is much harder than dogs. But I would say, let's say 6,000 years or something like that. They have retained a certain independence, and I think it's due to the nature of how they were domesticated, because, you know, humans and dogs, you had to have wolves and humans socially interacting at some point over a very long period of time, enough that genetic changes would be made in wolves so that they would not, you know, they would not be nasty when encountering humans. Cats really didn't have to do a lot of adjustment because it's generally agreed they came on the scene when farmers started to store grain, grain attracted mice and whatever else eats grain. Cats were attracted to crowds of mice, and so they earned their keep without having to ingratiate themselves with the humans. And I like to think that that's still a little bit true, you know, that they kind of feel like. And here, I'm not being scientific, they kind of feel like, you know, they're there if they'll keep the mice away. But if you want to, you know, keep them inside, screw that. I'm. I'm going out as soon as the doors open, and I might not come back for two weeks. Who knows? I. I think there's a little bit of that. I've had cats that have done that, and I've also had cats that you would say are extremely domestic. But, you know, one scientific paper called them predator for hire, and I think that's exactly what they are.

D (22:13)

I mean, to be fair, I was trying to bait you into a hot take, but of course you made it.

E (22:18)

Yeah, yeah. No, I will run scared from that. Just like, why don't you ask me, you know, do I believe there are cat people and dog people? And I'll give you the same vague answer, because I've owned dogs, and I've owned cats. I've owned reptiles, I've owned turtles. Am I a turtle person? Am I a dog person? You know, I mean, I lean toward dogs, but I've happily had cats that I really loved, so. And there have been countless attempts to analyze the personalities of pet owners to try and figure out which is which. And honestly, the results would drive you mad, Sam. Like, they're just. One study says this, Another study says that, oh, you know, extroverted people like dogs. You know, it might be true that people who are physically active sort of align themselves more with dogs because you've got to walk your dog anyway. But beyond that, I don't think there's very much.

D (23:24)

I mean, it's not even a great research question because there are so many species or so many different types of dogs and cats, and then even within you could see a given type, you could see different personalities. And so there's so many variables. How would you even study that in a concrete kind of way?

E (23:42)

No, I think it's very hard. But, you know, what I've learned from writing this book is that I have to think differently about interacting with my dog. And I'll give you a very quick example. First of all, I would say it's not just companionship and joy. I think the fact that they irritate you from time to time is part of the relationship. It's a complex human relationship. Not everyone makes you happy all the time. So my dog, on certain days, when I take him for a walk, will honestly stop either to pee or to pretend to pee like, every 10 steps. Okay. And it just. It starts to drive me nuts. And just yesterday I realized. But the same thing happens for him. I'm walking along, I get a cell phone call. I stop, I blab for, like, three minutes. He has no idea why I'm doing that, and he has to just stand there and wait for me. So I've now decided it's 50. 50, right? You stop. Fine, I stop. You don't complain. You're already ahead of me. And so I'm trying to adopt that slightly more tolerant stance.

D (24:53)

And in your book, you go into different types of pets beyond the ones we typically think of, like cats and dogs, but a lot of unconventional types of pets that people have. Can you tell us a little bit more and, like, how you kind of define what a pet is when you get into more exotic pets like tigers and bears?

E (25:14)

Yeah. Or let me take one that I'm sure people laughed at, having an ant colony. Now, they are not your companion, and they likely don't really even fathom that you exist. We don't know what goes on in an ant's brain. And, you know, given the research with bumblebees, they're probably smarter than we think. So it's not companionship, it's not an emotional relationship. But having an ant colony and it's relatively easy to set one up, allows you to watch an alien way of life as it unfolds. And, you know, it's all based on the chemistry of odors. Substances that they have plastered on their bodies, help them identify each other and lay trails for food and all that kind of stuff. It's just a completely different way of living. And I, I think that's, that can be a pet. You know, they're not your best buddy. There are, there are pets for that in the same way, you know, parrots, Parrots are fabulous pets. They can be very challenging, but they can be very funny. The major hesitation about acquiring a parrot is that it might live 60 years. And if you have to, if you die before the parrot does. Most parrots in that situation are only reluctantly taken up by somebody else, I mean, because they'll swear at you quite a lot and, you know, it's just hard. So I don't really advocate, advocate getting a parrot unless you're prepared to spend many, many, many years with that bird.

D (27:03)

Can you go a bit more into how pet ownership, whether they're giving you companionship or entertainment or serving whatever purpose, how does pet ownership contribute to our mental health and emotional well being?

E (27:15)

I think hugely, but maybe not hasn't been exactly measured yet in terms of physical health, which you didn't really ask about, but it's more solid there. There are a good number of studies that show that pet ownership, and maybe particularly dog ownership will maintain lower blood pressure. And part of that is obvious. You got to walk the dog every day and so you're getting exercise that's going to help stabilize your blood pressure. But there's more to it than that. There's, there's something about companionship and you know, I think you mentioned in, in your intro that you look into your dog's eyes and you know, there's an exchange of feelings, but there's also a hormonal reaction. Anyway, so the dog's oxytocin rises and it's a mother daughter hormone especially, but it happens with you and your dog and your oxytocin rises. Well, oxytocin, independently of that contributes to lowering stress. So you can see on a very fairly straightforward level, you're less stressed if you're with your favorite dog. There have been lots, there have been, there's an increasing number of studies about people living with dementia having pets. And then quite often as the dementia progresses, they are really no longer able to take care of the pet. And there's an increasing amount now of robot pets that are used as substitutes. And, you know, there are a lot of people have ethical arguments against that while we're deceiving that person into thinking this is a real animal. But, you know, if you're talking about somebody living with dementia, I think the rule is if you come to visit them and, sorry, when you leave a visit from them, they're happier than when you arrived. And if a robot pet gives them a sense of companionship, warmth, fur to stroke, comforting noises, all those things, I see no problem with that at all. And I suspect people are starting to realize these are a very good thing. And so even if you, you know, you're young and you don't have dementia, they send off signals that I'm sure we haven't fully evaluated yet. So beyond oxytocin, what else is going on? Nobody's done a real full ramp up of, let's look at a whole bunch of, a whole slate of hormones and are they changing? And what about blood pressure moment to moment? There's a lot of work still to be done, but I'm convinced they benefit us, just as in some ways we benefit them.

D (30:06)

Okay, we talked about a lot of cool things that pets do that I found really surprising. But just to end here, are there any myths or misconceptions that persist about pets, Things that people think are true and there's actually no evidence for it at all?

E (30:21)

I'll give you one example, and then I'll welcome anyone listening to extrapolate to many others. But it's the case of dogs showing they're guilty when they've done something that they were told not to do. Classic way to test this is you have an experimenter in the kitchen with the owner and the dog. You put food in a bowl. The owner says, don't eat this. The owner leaves the kitchen, closes the door behind them, and they claim when they come back, if the dog has eaten the food, the dog has a look that they call guilt. So of course, in this experimental situation, what you can do is have the scientist take the food out of the bowl and hide it and then have the owner come back in. The owner is, look, he's guilty. But the point is the dog cannot feel guilt. I mean, he didn't do it, right? But what the dog is reacting to is the owner's chastising him or her. And there have been several variations of this to try and eliminate any other possibility. Like, does the dog fear that there's going to be repercussions because the food is gone. But then that's not guilt, right? That's, that's anticipating punishment, which is a different kind of thing. So I would just take that. If you think your dog has a guilty look, fiddle around, do some experiments, see if you can really prove that. I don't have confidence that people who own dogs will find that they're wrong because they believe they're right. But I think that I, I think it could be easily said that many other feelings, thoughts that we attribute to our pets are really ours projected on them.

D (32:23)

Jay, it's always a delight speaking with you. So fascinating to learn about your new book. Thank you so much for being on the show.

E (32:31)

It was really my pleasure. Thanks a lot, Sam.

D (32:34)

You can get your copy of the Science of Pets by Jay Ingram wherever you get Books.

A (32:43)

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts. It's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking with Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends, it's pretty much all he talks about. In a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1na member FDIC. It's tax season and at LifeLock, we.

E (33:16)

Know you're tired of numbers, but here's a big one you need to hear. Billions.

A (33:20)

That's the amount of money and refunds the IRS has flagged for possible identity fraud.

E (33:25)

Now here's another big number.

A (33:27)

100 million. That's how many data points LifeLock monitors every second. If your identity is stolen, we'll fix it.

E (33:33)

Guaranteed.

A (33:34)

One last big number. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com specialoffer for the threats you can't control. Terms apply. Hello listeners. Meet Lisa.

D (33:45)

Hey there.

A (33:46)

Lisa runs an online boutique specializing in sustainable fashion. With Acast, she found a whole new way to reach eco conscious shoppers.

D (33:54)

Yep, I recorded a quick ad targeted listeners interested in fashion and sustainability using Acast's audience attributes, targeting features and set my budget. Before I knew it, people all over were hearing about my shop.

A (34:05)

Now that's a smart way to grow your business. Hey Lisa, what's trending right now?

D (34:09)

Shopping sustainably and my sales, of course.

A (34:12)

Start reaching your ideal audience through podcast ads with Acast. Visit go acast.com advertise to get started.

D (34:28)

Okay, tell me if you feel the same way. You see a Chihuahua or a Pomeranian snuggled under someone's arm in their cute pink purse, then you see a Great Dane walking down the sidewalk, and you think, this makes no sense at all. Like, these dogs are the same species. That species is formally called Canis lupus familiaris, meaning all dogs are descendants of gray wolves. And yet domestic dogs have more variation in their physical features than any other mammal species on Earth, even humans. So, like, what gives? Researchers have been trying to answer this question of diversity within the dog species for a long time. The previous assumption was that selective breeding practices in the 1800s gave us what we think of as modern dog breeds. But a recent study upended this theory. It shows that variation in dog breeds and dog domestication in general goes back way, way further than previously thought. The researchers conducted the most wide ranging analysis of canine skulls in an effort to find out when exactly specific breeds began to emerge. They examined skulls from over 600 dogs and wolves that had lived in the past 50,000 years. The team created detailed 3D models of each skull and analyzed them using what's called geometric morphometrics. It's a statistical approach that allows for really precise comparisons of skull shape. What they found were distinctly dog skull shapes in early specimens from 11,000 years ago. That means the physical variations between breeds that we see today started not hundreds, but thousands of years ago. We knew dogs were domesticated back then, but we didn't realize just how much variation was already starting to unfold. Dogs played many roles in early human society, including hunting, herding, guarding, and companionship. So if someone noticed that two dogs were particularly good at herding, for example, they'd breed those dogs together to continue that herding bloodline. Do that enough, and you'll start to see specific traits emerge separating from their common ancestor. Archaeologists are still trying to solve the puzzle of when exactly we began to domesticate dogs. But this study shed some light on the close relationship between our species. We might not know when the first human looked at a wolf and decided, hey, I'll make that my best friend. But we are learning that our species evolved together much longer than we thought. And this long history of all of us shaping our dogs is part of why adoption still matters today. It's why you can still find a Pomp or a Great Dane or a Golden in the same place. It's also why Puppy bowl is still on. It's 22 years old in 2026. That's like over 100 in dog years, which makes it a record holder. It's the longest running call to adoption broadcast in history at this point. Same day as the big game on Discovery in Animal Planet. For Warner Bros. Discovery Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Theresa Carey, our producer is Chiara Noni, our audio engineer is Nick Kharisimi and head of Production for Wheelhouse DNA is Cassie Berman. And I'm Dr. Samantha Youmeen. Thanks for listening. Listening.

A (37:49)

With no fees or minimums on checking accounts, it's no wonder the Capital One bank guy is so passionate about banking. With Capital One. If he were here, he wouldn't just tell you about no fees or minimums. He'd also talk about how most Capital One cafes are open. Search seven days a week to assist with your banking needs. Yep, even on weekends it's pretty much all he talks about in a good way. What's in your wallet? Terms apply. See capitalone.com bank capital1NA member FDIC.

C (38:19)

As a small business owner, you don't really get to clock out early. Your business is on your mind 24 7. So when it's time to hire, you need a partner that works just as hard as you do. That partner is LinkedIn. Jobs when you clock out, LinkedIn clocks in. It's super easy to post your job for free, share it with your network and manage qualified candidates all in one place. LinkedIn can even help you write your job description and get it in front of the right people. And promoted jobs get three times more qualified applicants. 72% of small businesses say LinkedIn helps them find higher quality candidates and you can double your reach just by adding the hashtag hiringframe to your profile photo. Find out why more than 2.5 million small businesses use LinkedIn for hiring. Post your job for free@LinkedIn.com jobsearch that's LinkedIn.com J O B S E A R C H Terms and conditions apply.

B (39:19)

From GEICO Subconscious News, I'm Tammy. Racing thoughts tonight you just left for work and had a non specific feeling that something was happening to your place.

D (39:26)

And it was wasn't good.

A (39:27)

Dan Exactly Tammy. It could be smoke damage, theft or just too much caffeine, but you can't stop thinking about it.

B (39:34)

But with renters insurance through geico, your.

D (39:36)

Stuff is covered so you don't have to worry.

A (39:38)

And that's great cause the weekend is coming up and it's chock full of social obligations that are ready to fill that void.

B (39:43)

Oh boy, will they. Dad. It feels good to worry less.

D (39:47)

It feels good to Geico ACAST Powers.

E (39:52)

The World's Best Podcasts Here's a show.

D (39:55)

That we record.

A (39:58)

Leadership used to mean having all the answers, but today's best leaders embody a more human approach.

E (40:03)

I'm Jack Myers.

A (40:04)

And I'm Tim Spengler. Tim and I have spent our careers inside media, marketing and culture and we partnered with the Acast Creator Network to start Lead Human to answer one simple question. What does it really look like to lead in this AI dominated world?

E (40:20)

The biggest tip for being a creator?

A (40:21)

It's a job.

E (40:22)

What I learned from Michael Jackson. Here's a man who understands precision.

A (40:27)

It's about answering the questions that are.

E (40:29)

Hard, not about answering a bunch of.

A (40:31)

Teed up questions that are fake. What we're looking for are real stories and practical advice that you can use with your teams right away. Subscribe to Lead Human with Jack Myers and Tim Spengler wherever you get your podcasts.

D (40:45)

ACAST helps creators launch, grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere.

E (40:50)

Acast.com.