Flower Trade, Climate Tech, Aquafaba

Summary

Curiosity Weekly: Flower Trade, Climate Tech, Aquafaba
Release Date: March 26, 2025

Host: Dr. Samantha Yammine
Guest: Amy Stewart, Author of Flower Confidential

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Introduction

In this episode of Curiosity Weekly, host Dr. Samantha Yammine delves into three intriguing topics: the intricate world of the flower trade, the innovative realm of climate technology, and the fascinating uses of aquafaba as a vegan egg substitute. Through expert interviews and engaging discussions, the episode unpacks the hidden complexities and scientific breakthroughs shaping these diverse fields.

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The Hidden Costs of the Flower Trade

Timestamp: [00:35] – [30:14]

Guest: Amy Stewart

Dr. Yammine initiates the episode by exploring the seemingly simple act of buying flowers, unveiling the environmental and ethical implications embedded in the global flower trade. Historically, selecting and gifting flowers was a straightforward, joyous act. However, today's practices involve long-distance transportation, extensive use of herbicides and pesticides, and complex supply chains that contribute to significant environmental and labor costs.

Key Points Discussed:

• Slow Flowers Movement: Amy Stewart highlights how her book, Flower Confidential, acted as a catalyst for the revival of local, organic flower farming in the United States. This movement emphasizes sustainable, seasonal, and locally sourced flowers, countering the previous dominance of large-scale imports from countries like Colombia and Ecuador.

  “The book was kind of a catalyst for a revival of local flower farming in the United States. So now there's a slow flowers movement.”
  — Amy Stewart [01:17]

• Environmental Impact: The extensive journey of imported flowers—from international farms to refrigerated airplanes and warehouses—results in high carbon emissions and significant resource consumption. Local farmers, on the other hand, can cultivate more diverse and fragrant varieties without the need for extensive preservation, enhancing both environmental sustainability and consumer experience.

  “The flowers that come in, say, from Latin America, tend to be like roses, baby's breath carnations, because they're incredibly durable and they can handle that.”
  — Amy Stewart [18:54]

• Selective Breeding: Stewart explains how flower breeders prioritize traits like durability and vase life over genetic diversity and fragrance to meet the demands of global markets. This approach leads to a narrow variety of flowers available commercially, often at the expense of biodiversity and ecosystem health.

  “The flowers that we're growing for the flower market have almost nothing to do with wild flowers and wild plants. It's kind of a closed system.”
  — Amy Stewart [23:15]

• Sustainability Practices: Recommendations for consumers include purchasing from local farmers' markets and supporting florists who source sustainably. This shift not only reduces the carbon footprint but also supports the local economy and encourages more environmentally friendly farming practices.

  “Find them, connect with them and buy flowers from them.”
  — Amy Stewart [26:55]

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Climate Tech Showdown

Timestamp: [02:49] – [12:35]

Guest: Teresa Carey

Transitioning from flowers to climate technology, Dr. Yammine introduces a playful yet informative segment where Teresa Carey presents real and fake climate tech solutions, challenging both the host and listeners to identify the legitimate innovations.

First Challenge: Carbon Dioxide Swallowing Clouds vs. Green Sand Beaches

• Carbon Dioxide Swallowing Clouds (Fake): Described as engineered clouds infused with nanobots that convert CO₂ into oxygen and carbon powder, which then sequesters into the soil. Dr. Yammine immediately suspects this as a conspiracy-laden myth.

  “That's a conspiracy theory waiting to happen. Like the headlines and social media posts write themselves.”
  — Dr. Samantha Yammine [03:26]

• Green Sand Beaches (Real): Utilizes olivine sand to chemically react with atmospheric CO₂, turning it into bicarbonates and calcium that sequester in ocean sediments. This real initiative aims to enhance ocean health by reducing acidity and absorbing more CO₂.

  “When it rains, the water absorbs CO2 from the air... locking away the CO2 for thousands of years.”
  — Teresa Carey [04:05]

Second Challenge: Lightning Harvesting Towers vs. Artificial Forests

• Lightning Harvesting Towers (Fake): Massive towers designed to capture and store energy from lightning strikes using superconductors. Despite Dr. Yammine's initial belief, this concept is revealed as the fake.

  “The trees look more like a giant stack of vinyl records... a futuristic sculpture.”
  — Teresa Carey [07:47]

• Artificial Forests (Real): Engineered trees that efficiently capture CO₂ and store it underground, significantly more effective than natural trees. These passive systems rely on natural breezes rather than mechanical processes.

  “These trees don't need a lot of power... They work passively.”
  — Teresa Carey [08:03]

Third Challenge: Space-Based Solar Power vs. Photosynthetic Jellyfish

• Space-Based Solar Power (Real): Satellites equipped with solar panels collect intense solar energy and beam it back to Earth via microwaves or lasers. Projects like SPIDER and initiatives by Japan and the European Space Agency demonstrate its feasibility.

  “The solar panels up in space, they don't have to deal with atmospheric interference.”
  — Dr. Samantha Yammine [11:52]

• Photosynthetic Jellyfish (Fake): Bioengineered jellyfish designed to absorb CO₂ from ocean water and release oxygen, supporting marine ecosystems. This concept remains speculative and unproven.

  “Scientists are bioengineering jellyfish with chlorophyll-like proteins... releasing oxygen as they swim.”
  — Teresa Carey [09:17]

Teresa Carey ultimately confirms that space-based solar power is real, emphasizing its potential to provide consistent, renewable energy without the limitations of Earth's atmosphere.

“If anyone listening has been wanting to write a futuristic sci-fi dystopian novel, this is where you start.”
— Dr. Samantha Yammine [08:24]

---

Aquafaba: The Vegan Egg Substitute

Timestamp: [30:14] – [34:20]

Dr. Yammine shifts focus to the culinary world, introducing aquafaba—the viscous liquid from canned chickpeas—as a breakthrough in plant-based cooking. Highlighting its versatility, the discussion covers how aquafaba mimics the properties of egg whites, making it a valuable ingredient for vegans and those with egg allergies.

Key Points Discussed:

• Origins of Aquafaba: Originated around 2014-2015 when vegan enthusiasts sought alternatives to egg whites for recipes like meringues.

  “Aquafaba made its introduction as an egg white substitute around 2014-2015.”
  — Dr. Samantha Yammine [30:24]

• Functional Properties: Aquafaba can emulsify, coagulate, and foam similarly to egg whites, enabling the creation of stable foams for desserts like chocolate mousse and meringues.

  “The liquid from a can of chickpeas foams. When agitated, it's stable and when cooked, hardens into a meringue.”
  — Dr. Samantha Yammine [31:05]

• Scientific Basis: The effectiveness of aquafaba is attributed to proteins, sugars, and saponins present in chickpea water. These compounds form stable bubbles by self-organizing into structures that trap air, much like the proteins in egg whites.

  “Saponins are natural chemicals found in plants that can dissolve in both water and fat.”
  — Dr. Samantha Yammine [32:05]

• Sustainability and Accessibility: Aquafaba offers a nutritious, sustainable alternative that reduces reliance on animal products. It is available in bulk or powder form, providing convenience for both home cooks and commercial applications.

  “You don't even have to buy a can of chickpeas to get aquafaba. You can buy bulk liquid aquafaba or aquafaba powder.”
  — Dr. Samantha Yammine [33:00]

Aquafaba’s rise signifies a significant advancement in plant-based culinary arts, offering practical solutions for those seeking sustainable and ethical food alternatives.

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Conclusion

The episode of Curiosity Weekly masterfully intertwines diverse subjects, offering listeners a comprehensive exploration of the flower industry's environmental impact, innovative climate technologies, and groundbreaking culinary substitutes. Through insightful interviews with experts like Amy Stewart and engaging segments with Teresa Carey, Dr. Yammine provides a rich, informative narrative that not only educates but also inspires action towards sustainability and innovation.

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Connect with Amy Stewart:

• Instagram: Amy Stewart
• Website: amystuart.com

Produced by: Wheelhouse DNA
Senior Producer and Editorial Correspondent: Teresa Carey
Associate Producer: Chiara Noni
Audio Engineer: Nick Karisimi
Head of Production: Cassie Berman

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Curiosity Weekly continues to bring the latest in scientific discoveries, making complex subjects accessible and engaging for all listeners. Stay curious and join Dr. Samantha Yammine each week for more enlightening discussions.

Transcript

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[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Doing a good deed seems simple, right? Like you buy flowers for your mom. Easy and thoughtful. But even small acts today have hidden consequences. 100 years ago, it was simple. You pick some flowers, hand them to your mom, and everyone's happy. No strings attached. Now, that bouquet might come from halfway around the world, flown, packaged, treated with herbicides and pesticides, and passed through complex supply chains with environmental and labor costs, all baked in a rose still smells sweet. Or does it? I'm digging into the flower industry because it's springtime and I want to make sure my good intentions are actually doing some good.

[Amy Stewart]

The book was kind of a catalyst for a revival of local flower farming the United States. So now there's a slow flowers movement.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

In the U.S. amy Stewart is the author of the book Flower Confidential. I chat with her about the ins and outs of the flower ecosystem. After that, we get into Aquafaba. Ever heard of it? Well, pay attention because not only is it fun to say, but it might be the solution to bringing down your grocery bill. And Teresa Carey is going to challenge us all in a sort of balderdash of climate tech game. I'm Dr. Samantha Amin and welcome to Curiosity Weekly. From Discovery, we're diving into one of the biggest challenges of our time. Climate change. We know the science. Rising global temperatures, melting ice caps, extreme weather. It's clear we need to act fast. But the good news is that innovators and researchers around the world are stepping up in some seriously creative ways. From sucking carbon out of the atmosphere to transforming forming emissions into useful products. The field of climate tech is exploding with new ideas. So we're going to gamify things for you. Teresa Carey's back for a climate tech showdown. She's going to present two climate tech solutions, but one is real and one is fake. You get where this is going. Our job is to figure out which one is legit. And I haven't seen the answers yet. So let's see how much we really know. Try and stump us, Teresa.

[Teresa Carey]

Okay, we're going to talk about sand and clouds first. Your choices are either carbon dioxide swallowing clouds or green sand beaches as a climate tech solution. So here, let me give you a little explanation. The carbon dioxide swallowing clouds. These scientists have engineered fake clouds infused with nanobots that chemically react with CO2 in the atmosphere. They break it down into harmless oxygen and carbon powder, and the carbon powder rains down and naturally integrates back into the soil where it's sequestered.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

That's a conspiracy theory waiting to happen. Like the headlines and social media posts write themselves. Nanobots and fake clouds. Wow.

[Teresa Carey]

Green sand beaches is the other option. Scientists are testing this idea, spreading green sand on beaches to pull CO2 from the air. And as the sand dissolves, it triggers a chemical reaction that locks away carbon in the ocean sediments for millennia.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

One of them is fake.

[Teresa Carey]

Yes. And one of them is real.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Oh, wow. Okay. I was gonna say the cloud one, but the nanobots took it over the edge for me. So I'm gonna say that the sand is real.

[Teresa Carey]

Yes. The sand is real. Yes.

[Amy Stewart]

Truly shocked.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

They both seem like just wild enough that they could be true.

[Teresa Carey]

So there is green sand beaches, and I've actually held this sand in my hands. It's made from the mineral olivine. And scientists spread this green sand on beaches to help pull CO2 out of the atmosphere. I know it sounds a little weird, but it's based on a natural process that already happens. They're just trying to speed it up.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

And it's literally green.

[Teresa Carey]

It's literally green. And I'm picturing like the Emerald City, you know?

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

You know, that's where my head always goes to wake.

[Teresa Carey]

But it doesn't look like that when it's larger. It looks green when it's ground down into sand. It doesn't.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

When you look at sand up closer under a microscope, it's all sorts of colors that we don't notice anyway. So that's really cool. Yeah.

[Teresa Carey]

So a little bit about the chemistry. When it rains, the water absorbs CO2 from the air, turning it into a weak acid called carbonic acid. And when that rainwater hits olivine sand, a chemical reaction happens. This creates bicarbonates and calcium, which eventually washes into the ocean and settles into the ocean sediments. And those bicarbonates and calcium eventually turn into things like seashells and coral skeletons and locking away the that CO2 for thousands of years.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Is this helpful for, like, ocean acidification?

[Teresa Carey]

There is an added bonus with the green sand. Basically, it makes the water less acidic. We know that the Ocean is absorbing CO2 from the atmosphere. It's making the water more acidic. So this will kind of reverse that a little bit. That helps the ocean absorb even more CO2 from the atmosphere. So it's a little bit like a double wind. It stores carbon and it helps the ocean stay healthier.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I'm curious too. Is acquiring the olivine also destructive to other environments? That would be something I'd want to know.

[Teresa Carey]

Definitely. Shipping this olivine, it's going to take a huge amount of olivine, over 50,000 tons. And this shipping alone could cancel out some of the climate benefits. A group called Project Vesta has set up a pilot project in the northern Caribbean and another beach in North Carolina. There's always a chance that it could mess with local marine life, which is why they have these tests and why they're so important.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

That's great. That's so interesting. Thank you for sharing. And I'm shocked I guessed right. It was really.

[Teresa Carey]

That's awesome. Okay, so here's your next challenge.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Oh, another one.

[Teresa Carey]

I got three. Oh.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Oh, that's right. Okay.

[Teresa Carey]

The two options we're going to talk about. One is real, one is fake. Are lightning harvesting towers and artificial forests. So I'm going to tell you about the forest first.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay.

[Teresa Carey]

Engineers are designing forests of futuristic trees. Trees. They're fake trees. They're artificial. They can suck carbon dioxide from the air thousands of times more efficiently than natural trees. And these high tech forests pull the carbon from the atmosphere and then store underground.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay, second option. I'm not loving that one. We have real trees. Okay, let me hear the other option.

[Teresa Carey]

Second option is lightning harvesting towers. There's these massive towers being built. They're basically lightning rods, and they're coated with superconductors that can capture the energy from lightning strikes and store it in large underground batteries. The stored energy could then be released gradually into the grid.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay. I'm going to choose the lightning one as being true simply because I want it to be true, because the artificial trees one is. I just like why we have trees. So let's go for lightning.

[Teresa Carey]

That is fake.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Oh, man. The trees.

[Teresa Carey]

Yes.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Does it look like a tree?

[Teresa Carey]

They look more like a giant stack of vinyl records. The tree itself, it doesn't have a canopy or leaves. It isn't meant to look like a tree. It's essentially a series of large, flat disks stacked up vertically, Kind of like a futuristic sculpture.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Fascinating.

[Teresa Carey]

So here's how it works. Air naturally blows through the discs, and when the disks are dry, the material coated on them pulls the CO2 out of the air. And then when they're full with CO2, the disks lower into a chamber and steam is used to Release the captured CO2 and then collect it down there, which can be stored underground or used for other purposes.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay, interesting. I'm all for innovation. I'm not sure I'm super sold on this one. It feels like a carbon capture device that they've just rebranded as a tree.

[Teresa Carey]

So you can go see the first mechanical tree installed at Arizona State University in 2022. The company behind it is called carbon collect. Unlike other carbon capture methods, these trees don't need a lot of to power fans or blowers. They work passively. They let the breeze do most of the work.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

If anyone listening has been wanting to write a futuristic sci fi dystopian novel, this is where you start.

[Teresa Carey]

Okay, let's do another one.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Let's do the third one.

[Teresa Carey]

I think you're gonna know this one. This one's gonna be obvious now.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

If I get it wrong.

[Teresa Carey]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

You really set me up for failure here. Go for it.

[Teresa Carey]

Your choices are space based solar power.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay, it rhymes. I like it.

[Teresa Carey]

Or photosynthetic jellyfish. Let me tell you what these are. I'll start with space based solar power. Researchers are building satellites that can capture solar energy in space where the sun's rays are more intense. And they're going to beam that energy back to earth using microwaves or lasers.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay, you lost me on that part. I know that there are lots of solar panels on rockets and landers and satellites and all that, but the beaming back.

[Teresa Carey]

Okay, let's hear the other one. That's key with this. The idea, with this idea is that they're beaming it back to earth so that we can use it on land to power our homes and things. The other one is photosynthetic jellyfish. Scientists are bioengineering jellyfish with chlorophyll like proteins, which allow them to absorb CO2 from ocean water and release oxygen as they swim. And their natural movement would help circulate and oxygenate ocean systems ecosystems.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay, you said this one would be obvious, But I have problems with both of these, so I can't pick, like, the first, the space one. I'm like, I know that we use solar panels in space all the time, But I don't know about the Beaming back the energy. And then the second one sounds like something we would do. But should we bioengineer things and release them into the wild? I don't know. I'm gonna say the fake is the solar panel thing because I don't get how this beaming, that's the real one. Really? How does that work?

[Teresa Carey]

Researchers at the Air Force Research Laboratory in Albuquerque, New Mexico are working on this and they're calling the project Space Solar Power Incremental Demonstration and Research, or SPIDER for short, if you just use the acronym.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

The name didn't make sense till you told me there was a good acronym. Got it.

[Teresa Carey]

SPIDER with two S's. So one iteration of their plan is they're creating these self assembling solar arrays. They fold into a capsule and they're launched into space. And once they're in space, they unfold and collect solar energy and convert it to radio waves and beam it to receiving stations on the ground which can then add it to a power grid. There's actually a lot of different people working on this. Japan is going to demonstrate a miniature space based solar power plant in 2025. The European Space Agency is also working on this. Theirs is called the Solaris Initiative. The United States demonstrated power beaming from space in 2023 through Caltech's space solar power demonstrator mission.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Okay, cool. So radio waves being cap by specialized antennas on Earth that can then be transformed into electricity. Yes, very cool.

[Teresa Carey]

The other thing about this idea is that these solar panels up in space, they don't have to deal with atmospheric interference. There aren't cloudy days, they don't have nighttime, so they can get solar energy all the time.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

It's very interesting. It's cool to see. It's nice for that dose of optimism. There's a lot of climate anxiety and it's good to know that there are lots of creative solutions in the pipeline. And these are the best applications of science. When we try to think of ways to use science, use engineering innovation to solve real problems. Super cool. Really exciting. Thank you for bringing those. And how fun to live in a world that feels like so futuristic that I can't even accurately guess headlines.

[Teresa Carey]

All right, thanks, Sam.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Thank you.

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[Dr. Samantha Amin]

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[Dr. Samantha Amin]

The days are longer, the birds are chirping, and flowers are on my brain. And with more and more flowers showing up at the stores, many of us probably don't even think twice about where they came from, how far they traveled, or even what's been lost along the way, like their scent. Sniff a rose next time you're there and check how strong the scent is. Spoiler alert. It's probably not as intense as a wild rose. Behind every single flower in that bouquet is a hidden story involving cutting edge science, global trade, and most importantly, complex environmental questions. And our guest, Amy Stewart tackled these fascinating questions in her groundbreaking book, Flower Confidential. She revealed a floral industry shaped by science, driven by technology, and full of difficult compromises. Amy's here to explore what sort behind all the blooms we buy, how these choices affect our environment and even our senses. Plus, what's changed in the last decade since her book got onto the shelves. Amy Stewart, welcome to Curiosity Weekly.

[Amy Stewart]

Thank you. Good to be here.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I am so thrilled to chat with you. I. I love flowers and I learned so much from your book, and it just got me thinking. So much bigger than the actual little thing we look at on our counter. Now. You published flower Confidential in 2007, and then you have a part at the end of the book where you give an update a year, because that was a kind of pivotal time when there were a lot of changes going on in public perceptions related to the environment and industry standards. So I want to hear, since then, since that update, where are we now in the flower industry?

[Amy Stewart]

Yeah. So, you know, when I started writing Flower Confidential, the kind of modern green movement was just starting. Like, it was kind of brand new at the time. So I got into more of the environmental issues, both with transporting flowers so far, but also pesticide use, fungicide use, you know, all of that. And then the book came out, and the next thing that happened was actually something I didn't know about for a while because everyone was talking about it, but they weren't talking to me about it, which is that a bunch of kind of like young ambitious flower farmers and florists in the US Read the book and went out and started small local organic flower farms.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Wow.

[Amy Stewart]

I just didn't know what was going on. And it took like a couple of years before people started coming up to me and saying things like, hey, I read your book and I dropped out of college and rented a couple of acres and now I'm an organic flower farmer. And you did what? I was like, please don't tell your mother I'm responsible for this. But anyway, so now there's this kind of, there's a slow flowers movement in the US and, you know, an actual organization devoted to that. And I know those people, I'm friends with them. And I don't want to take all the credit for that because honestly, it probably would have happened anyway. But the book was kind of a catalyst for a revival of local flower farming in the United States. So that's really like a cool thing that's happened. And it makes the floral landscape very different today than it was almost 10 years ago.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

That's an incredible thing that happened. Like, it's a huge movement. Even when I, a few years ago, was shopping for my wedding flowers, we ended up going with the florist because she emphasized, like, really local things. She did a lot of foraging for greens. So I want to talk more about this slow flower movement, emphasizing locally grown, sustainable, even seasonal flower production and consumption. Can you speak to some of the scientific innovations that might accelerate the shift toward more environmentally friendly flower farming?

[Amy Stewart]

So, like a flower breeder, they're breeding for durability and they're making trade offs along the way. And one of those trade offs is fragrance. Fragrance is costly for a flower to produce. It uses up resources, but a local grower doesn't have to worry about that. So they can do these very fragrant flowers that you know are going to be cut one day and in your vase the next day. And maybe they're only going to live four or five days, but they're fabulous while they're here. So when you picture flowers being grown on a flower farm in Colombia or Ecuador, they're being harvested, they're being put in a box with no water, by the way. So it's a lot more like shipping lettuce, say, than it is, you know, they're not in vases being shipped. They go in boxes, they get refrigerated, they get put into the cargo hold of airplanes, they go to Miami, they sit on a Runway. Then they go into hopefully another refrigerated facility and they get inspected and they get on a truck and then they end up in a warehouse. They have a long journey. It could be close to a week that they're spending just traveling from place to place before you get them at home. And then you want to get a week or two out of them. So that's a crazy long time for flowers to live, right? So because of that, there's only particular varieties that we import. So the flowers that come in, say, from Latin America, tend to be like roses, baby's breath carnations, because they're incredibly durable and they can handle that. A local flower farmer could be growing sweet peas, you know, could be growing these really, really fragile, ephemeral, interesting, unusual flowers kind of in small quantities. They don't have to grow a million of them because a large chain grocery store has put an order for 1 million stems. You know, they can just grow a little bit. Those are very different varieties with very different considerations from the breeder's perspective.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

We don't really think about that. I'll admit I haven't bought flowers and thought, I wonder where this was actually grown. Unless I spoke to the grower themselves at a market. But it's not like you go to the grocery store, you see where the strawberries are from, where the apples are from. There's no place of origin on the flower bouquets that you would find there.

[Amy Stewart]

Yeah, generally you don't see country of origin labels on flowers. So flowers are interesting. They are an agricultural import, but they're not subject to all the same requirements that food is subject to. So, for instance, pesticide residue testing happens with fruit that we import, but not with flowers because we're not going to eat the flowers. So. So they're not tested for pesticide or fungicide residues. As they come into the country, they don't have little stickers on them saying what country they come from. But there are some kind of like local initiatives about that. Like I think California flower farmers have sort of worked at. Maybe we can have a program where there can be a California grown sticker. So there are like, initiatives like that, but they're totally voluntary.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

We talked about flowers traveling across the globe and many, many, many miles, and that on its own has a big carbo footprint. From a scientific perspective, what are the growers, the breeders of these flowers doing to extend the shelf life to make them able to do that, like breeding wise, so that flowers can survive and travel after they've been cut from their resource in the ground.

[Amy Stewart]

All the longevity stuff does happen from breeders. There's nothing really that a grower can do except maybe to be very intentional about timing exactly when the flower is harvested so that it's just open enough, but not past its prime. But breeders are looking for larger flower. Often larger flower size might be a little more durable. They're looking at stem length and they're generally just running tests to see, you know, does this one last longer in the vase. I mean, it's very common to do Vase life testing. There's also some work that breeders do on ethylene resistance. So ethylene is like a natural gas that's given off by, well, a lot of things, but let's say produce. So the bananas sitting on your kitchen counter are giving off ethylene. And ethylene speeds up ripening. So it's not a chemical that humans have added. It's just something that fruit does naturally as it starts to decay a little bit. But ethylene is also found, for instance, in car exhaust. So if you see flowers sitting out in a bucket on the sidewalk, they might be exposed to some ethylene from cars driving by. And ethylene speeds up ripening, which in the case of flowers, means that the flowers are going to start to wilt sooner. So, yeah, breeders look at. Can we breed. Is there something we can breed in to make these a little more resistant to the effects of ethylene? Because, as you notice at the grocery store, where are the flowers always displayed?

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Right next to the fruits?

[Amy Stewart]

Yeah, they're in the produce section. So they're possibly being exposed to even more ethylene because they're just sitting there in the produce section. And especially in a grocery store, those flowers are not being wheeled into a cooler at night. So that's the other thing is that temperature is actually a huge issue with flowers. If you can keep them at a cooler temperature, they'll last longer, but that requires refrigeration, which, of course, is another resource. Right. More electricity. So they're gonna start to wilt faster if they're not kept cold at least part of the time.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I like to call ethylene gas fruit farts. I mean, other. Other plants produce it as well, but, you know, it doesn't have the same all. And we've talked about how there are different tricks you can do genetically when breeding to select for hardier flowers. I'm curious, when you're doing this type of selective breeding and selecting for traits that will, let's say, make a flower have more longevity for transport, you might also be limiting the genetic diversity there within a floral species compared to a flower that's just growing out in the wild that's just freely evolving, what does that mean for biodiversity of flowers? And then, of course, all the insects that depend on them for their biodiversity and their food source.

[Amy Stewart]

Yeah. You know, the flowers that we're growing for the flower market have almost nothing to do with wild flowers and wild plants. It's kind of a closed system. Most flowers that are bred for the flower market are sterile to begin with. And they're sterile in part just because the seeds can be messy and it's like another thing to deal with, but also for patent reasons, like, these flowers are patented, and so they don't want you to be able to start selling them yourself.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Right, right.

[Amy Stewart]

So they really don't have much to do with wild plants at all.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

You talk in your book about the elusive blue rose and I too shudder, like you say you do when you see the dyed rose there. But you described it as this big quest, a holy grail or a botanical white whale. And blue in nature is a tricky pigment and hard to actually find a true blue, but especially hard for rose. Can you explain why and whether this is actually worth even trying to pursue because. Yeah, who. Who wants this?

[Amy Stewart]

Exactly. Yeah. So I interviewed a company in Australia that was working on breeding a blue rose. And within the rose gene pool, there are no genes that produce blue pigment. It just doesn't exist. So it's an impossibility. But someone thought, boy, if we can make a blue rose, you know, we'll be rich. Right? You know, everyone will want this. So what they had to do was do it's basically a genetically modified rose, where they're taking a pigment from petunias that do make blue and trying to put that into a rose and see what they get. The thing is, though, it's not as simple as just making that blue pigment. It also has to do with ph and other factors within the rose. So the closest they get is what I would describe as a lilac color, like a purple that leans towards blue. And you'll see these flowers, if you really look, particularly among carnations and some among roses, you'll see some that lean towards blue. And those could be genetically modified roses using a pigment from petunias or another flower that creates blue pigment.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

So interesting. It's not as easy as just like inserting a gene that makes a blue pigment, because there's. You have to have the whole context of the flower to then have to let it shine through. So, I mean, it's really cool science. It's really funny.

[Amy Stewart]

Industry wise, it is funny. And, you know, here's the thing. Sometimes the floral industry has to do a lot of unnatural things to produce a flower that meets our idea of natural. So, for instance, when I was down in Latin America on flower farms, they grow a lot of baby's breath. And we think of baby's breath as being white. That's what we want. Well, when the sun hits it, it actually starts to turn a little bit pink. So if they were to grow it outdoors in the sunshine, it would all be pink. So instead what they have to do is they have to protect it from the sun to keep it white so that it'll match our ideas of what's natural. Gerbera daisies are the same thing. They don't really grow on these long, long, perfectly straight stems that are over a foot long. You have to do some very unnatural things in a greenhouse to make that happen.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

That's so funny. Natural can be a relative term sometimes.

[Amy Stewart]

Exactly.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

And selective breeding is natural too. We've done it for centuries. What recommendations do you for a listener who wants to support sustainability and ethical practices when choosing flowers? Like, what should they do? Or what's the first step when they're out there wherever they're buying their flowers?

[Amy Stewart]

Well, one thing I would say is it's always great to buy flowers at the farmer's market, not only because you're buying local flowers, but it can be very useful for a farmer to have a high value crop that they can sell in between their other main crops. So if they really specialize in tomatoes and, you know, a couple of things, there might be a gap in between those two things coming in where they need something to sell. Flowers are also a good rotating crop for farmers. So to give the soil a little rest, you want to plant something different or just to keep disease down. We talked earlier about the slow flowers movement and they have a website. And so you can go to slowflowers.com and find local florists who are sourcing flowers locally, but also growers who might do like you people farms. Or maybe they do a few weddings in the summer or there's some combination of farmer and floral designer and there's tons of them all over the country. So, you know, find them, connect with them and buy flowers from them.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I have to ask slight shift in topics for our last question. Here you have a poisonous plant garden. It's been recognized as one of the world's strangest gardens. I love this. I love a home garden. Mine's not quite as exciting as yours, but what kinds of plants do you have? And from the science, scientific standpoint, what sparked your interest in growing these wonderful oddities?

[Amy Stewart]

Well, so it was actually while I was working on Flower Confidential and going around and visiting, like botanists in their greenhouses and stuff, I found that over and over again people would say to me, like, hey, before you go, come over here, I want to show you this thing I'm growing now. Don't tell my boss I have one of these in here. But it would always be some spooky, weird, deadly, dangerous, illegal, immoral, offensive of, you know, like, the dark side of the plant world is super interesting to plant people. So I wrote this book, Wicked Plants. And as I was working on the book, it was weird to write about plants I'd never seen before. And people started giving me these plants. Like someone would say, like, hey, I have some mandrake. Do you want to grow mandrake? And I'm like, of course. You can't just walk into a garden center and ask for mandrake. Right? So I start getting all these plants, but I needed a place to put them. So, yes, I cleared out this right off my kitchen, this long, skinny side garden that a lot of people have on the side of their houses. And I filled it with poisonous plants. And it was super fun. It was a very spooky, cool garden, but not a lot of use, right? I mean, poisons. So then I wrote a book called the Drunken Botanist, which is about all the plants we turn into alcohol. And I was like, I could really make a lot more use of a cocktail garden. So I ripped all that out and then it became a cocktail garden.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I like how your garden changes depending on what book you're writing.

[Amy Stewart]

That it's kind of cool. Yeah, no, but it's also, it is surprisingly helpful. Like you, you really do sort of want to see what you're writing about.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

You know, that's how we know we're learning from an expert. So thank you for doing that.

[Amy Stewart]

Right.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Amy Stewart is the author of several best selling books, including Flower Confidential, which explores the complex science behind the floral industry. You can check out more of Amy's work on Instagram at Amy Stewart or amystuart.com thanks, Amy.

[Amy Stewart]

Thank you.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

The exact number of vegans living in the US Is a hotly debated mystery. But one thing can't be denied. Plant based alternatives are everywhere. Stroll down any grocery aisle and you'll find everything from beyond meat and corn products. Corn spelled like Q U O r N to almond milk. There's a vegan option for everything. Well, almost everything. One notoriously tricky ingredient has remained a challenge for food, egg whites, until the last decade. Let me introduce you to Aquafaba, which sounds like a fancy, fancy spa treatment, but it's actually just the viscous liquid from a can of chickpeas or other beans. Yeah, basically bean water. Aquafaba made its introduction as an egg white substitute around 2014-2015. And it wasn't a renowned chef or food scientist that figured it out. It was a combination of people, including vegan French musician Joel Roselle and a home cook in Indiana named Goose Wolt, who gave it the popular name when trying to work out how to make some vegan meringue for his family. Seder Bean water to the rescue. But let's talk eggs for a second. They emulsify, providing stability for liquids that don't usually mix, like oil and water. Hello, mayonnaise. They coagulate, changing a liquid to a solid or semi solid. And they foam, producing air bubbles in a liquid, allowing it to keep shape. Mmm. Now I can't stop thinking about chocolate mousse. That airy, stable foam. Nearly impossible without egg whites. Now, how does chickpea water function as an egg white alternative in cooking, baking and even bartending? Well, the liquid from a can of chickpeas foams. When agitated, it's stable and when cooked, hardens into a meringue. And on the plus side, it tasted pretty good. Scientists are studying what exactly in the chickpea water, like proteins, sugars and natural soaps called saponins, makes it work so well. So here's the deal. Saponins are natural chemicals found in plants that can dissolve in both water and fat. These molecules are amphiphilic, which is a fancy way of saying they both love water and hate it. So when blended with water, the molecules self organize into bubbles so the water hating parts can trap in air to avoid the water, creating a stable foam. So does aquafaba work the same exact way as egg whites do? Well, yes and no. The taste and texture is slightly different, but it's a great alternative for those of you who don't eat eggs. Not to mention it's nutritious and can be sustainably made. You don't even have to buy a can of chickpeas to get Aquafaba. You can buy bulk liquid aquafaba or aquafaba powder. While most of you will probably continue to crack eggs for all your baking needs, our unknown number of vegans are surely happy to have a solid alternative. Or a foamy one rather. For Warner Bros. Discovery, Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Teresa Carey. The associate producer is Chiara Noni. Our audio engineer is Nick Karisimi. And head of Production for Wheelhouse DNA is Cassie Berman. And I'm Dr. Samantha Yamin. Thanks for listening. Not to be obnoxious, but I do love blue bonnets. Cute. Why is that obnoxious. Well, I'm from Texas, so it's like, all right, guys. Oh, but like. And so when the blue bonnets go into bloom, it's gorgeous. I love it.

[Amy Stewart]

I love a daffodil.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I love it. And I love Japanese anemones.

[Amy Stewart]

Pink ones.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Quickly googling that. I know. Are they like. Well, they're way flower so it's.

[Teresa Carey]

They're similar.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

They're so beautiful.

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