Curiosity Weekly: "History Punished Scientists – Are We Doing the Same Thing?"
Host: Dr. Samantha Yammine
Guest: Matt Kaplan (science correspondent, author)
Date: February 11, 2026
Episode Overview
This episode explores the recurring patterns in history where groundbreaking scientific thinkers were marginalized or ridiculed—sometimes even ruined—for ideas we now know to be true. Dr. Samantha Yammine and guest Matt Kaplan (author of I Told You: Scientists Who Were Ridiculed, Exiled and Imprisoned for Being Right) dive into historic and current examples, examine the psychology and culture behind scientific backlash, draw parallels with today’s climate (including the impact of social media), and discuss ways we can better foster scientific innovation while safeguarding needed skepticism.
In addition, Dr. Yammine shares insights into why IBS disproportionately affects women (and the biological links with estrogen) and closes with a science segment on the biology and history behind kissing.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
Why Groundbreaking Scientists Are Punished
[07:02]
- Throughout history, visionaries like Galileo, Copernicus, Ignaz Semmelweis, and more recently, Katalin Karikó and Drew Weissman, faced intense opposition for now-celebrated breakthroughs.
- Many were attacked by peers, forced to retreat professionally, or outright exiled from their fields.
Notable quote:
“Catalyn Kariko and Drew Weissman... talked about how that early work was consistently rejected from top science journals and they struggled for research funding.”
— Dr. Samantha Yammine [07:02]
Case Studies from History
Joseph Lister & Antiseptic Surgery
[08:34–13:27]
- After anesthesia made surgery routine, post-operative infection became the main killer. Lister realized carbolic acid could drastically cut infection rates.
- Despite publishing successful results, Lister was “vigorously attacked” by James Simpson (the inventor of anesthesia), whose own (incorrect) methods were threatened.
- Lister retreated from the limelight, teaching at his hospital—his students slowly spread his methods until they became accepted decades later.
Memorable moment:
“The more gore and blood you had on your apron and on your scalpel, the more experienced you were as a surgeon... There was no understanding that, hey, that scalpel might be infected…”
— Matt Kaplan [09:22]
Oliver Wendell Holmes & Childbed Fever
[13:52–18:20]
- Holmes used statistics to link doctors’ lack of handwashing to a deadly postpartum fever.
- He faced vicious personal attacks:
“They destroyed him in the end... he had to retreat from medicine, effectively gave up and ultimately became a poet.”
— Matt Kaplan [15:38] - Forty years later, Semmelweis further proved the case by using a chlorine solution to wash hands, saving countless lives—yet for his work, he was committed to an asylum by his peers.
Why Does This Keep Happening?
[13:27–15:38]
- Psychological toll: Scientists facing aggressive ridicule often withdraw, stifling innovation.
- The problem is not healthy scientific debate, but when “the gloves come off and it becomes personal.”
- Social and professional factors, such as status, national origin, or threat to existing authority, amplify the backlash.
Modern Parallels
[19:00]
- Katalin Karikó’s early mRNA research was dismissed as a dead-end and she was professionally sidelined and even threatened with deportation:
“Hungarian working in the United States on mRNA research that was deemed a dead end... For all of her hard work, she was threatened with deportation by the U.S. department of State…”
— Matt Kaplan [19:00]
The Role of Social Media
[20:37–21:27]
- Social media “fuels a lot of really nasty commentary” among researchers.
- Anonymity and ease of access allow ridicule and ostracism (“ridiculed and exiled”) to spread faster, making it harder for unconventional ideas to get fair hearing.
Balancing Skepticism & Openness
[18:20, 24:36–26:06]
-
The burden of proof for new ideas is essential, but so is resisting “character assassination.”
-
Peer review and debate are the “immune system of science”:
“This is how we identify stuff that really doesn’t belong and is quackery. And how we identify stuff that really actually deserves its chance to be funded… It’s about maintaining that balance between having... too anaphylactic a reaction against everything different and having no immune system at all.”
— Matt Kaplan [25:14] -
Stories of misunderstood scientists are sometimes exploited by disinformation purveyors:
“Disinformers actually use the same argument of like, look how Galileo was treated... to become sycophants for someone who is actually a quack.”
— Dr. Samantha Yammine [24:36]
Lessons & Looking Forward
[21:27, 23:15–23:55]
- We need deeper public understanding of how science works—the “sausage-making,” including debate and failure.
- Structural pressures, like pharmaceutical industry influence, continue to endanger honest discourse and safety.
- There is hope: most people in science and society are supportive; “bullies” are the minority.
- Supporting those facing backlash helps everyone:
“If we can all be aware of that, we can come to the aid of people who are being attacked. We have a real interest in making this work. So we need to remember, we’re all in this for the sake of humanity.”
— Matt Kaplan [23:41]
Science Shorts
IBS & Estrogen in Women
[01:34–05:06]
- About two-thirds of those with IBS are women; new research points to estrogen as a contributing factor.
- University of California scientists discovered that gut pain signaling in mice spikes with estrogen—removing ovaries lowered pain responses.
- Estrogen triggers gut cells to release peptide PYY, which activates pain signals to the brain.
- Finding could lead to new targeted treatments for IBS.
Notable quote:
“It’s got a whole host of its own neurons and signaling molecules, just like the brain. And the brain and gut talk to one another. Pain is always perceived in the brain, but it can start in the gut.”
— Dr. Samantha Yammine [02:42]
The Science & History of Kissing
[28:31–32:21]
- Kissing isn’t universal; only 46% of surveyed cultures practice it romantically.
- Other animals (chimps, bonobos, wolves, albatrosses) have kissing-like behaviors.
- Scent (pheromones) plays a larger role in attraction—e.g., the famous “sweaty T-shirt” study.
- Kissing exchanges up to 80 million bacteria in 10 seconds, and frequent partners develop similar oral microbiomes.
- Historical references date to ancient Mesopotamia and Egypt (2500 BCE).
Notable Quotes & Timestamps
- “Science needs debate, not destruction.”
— Matt Kaplan [13:52] - “We need to be talking about the sausage making more... Debate is healthy, and it really needs to happen.”
— Matt Kaplan [21:36] - “Most people are inherently good. Most people really are cheering for science... it’s just the odd bully who can stir up the frenzy.”
— Matt Kaplan [23:41] - “Peer review and debate... is the immune system of science.”
— Matt Kaplan [25:14]
Conclusion
This episode elegantly connects past and present, warning how unchecked ridicule and professional exile can slow progress and cost lives. It emphasizes the necessity for open but respectful scientific discourse and urges us all—scientists and laypeople alike—to support those with bold, evidence-based ideas, while appreciating the disciplined processes that sort innovation from error.
Matt Kaplan’s book, I Told You: Scientists Who Were Ridiculed, Exiled and Imprisoned for Being Right, is out February 2026.
Timestamps
01:34 – IBS causes & estrogen research
07:02 – Introduction to the theme: punishing scientists
08:34–13:27 – Joseph Lister’s antiseptic struggles
13:52–18:20 – Holmes, puerperal fever, and personal attacks
19:00 – Modern examples, like Karikó and mRNA
20:50 – Social media’s double-edged sword
21:27 – How science should be reported and understood
23:15 – Lessons in resilience & supporting good science
24:36–26:06 – Guardrails vs. quackery; importance of scientific “immune system”
28:31 – The biology and anthropology of kissing
For anyone interested in the forces that shape science—past, present, and future—this episode is an invaluable listen and guide.