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Dr. Samantha Yamin (6:55)

Science aims to study the natural world, but that world is vast. Imagine how long it'd take to sample microplastic concentrations from oceans all around the world. And with such powerful cameras on the very phones in our pockets, it seems kind of redundant to set up separate cameras all across the continent every time there's a potential aurora, for example, when you can have people submit the pictures they're taking anyway, while many scientists are ready to strap on their boots and get their hands dirty. Of course, gathering enough data from hard to reach places and people is often a lot more efficient and cost effective when those already on site do the data collecting, that is where public participation in science comes in. But it isn't as simple as like shipping someone a data collection kit. Of course, we need to ensure the data is precise and reliable, and then there are important considerations about who can or should collect it, plus what they should gain from the process. I have questions, and here to help answer them is Dr. Karen Cooper, professor at North Carolina State University and author of Citizen How Ordinary People Are Changing the Face of Discovery. Welcome to Curiosity Weekly, Karen hi, and.

Dr. Karen Cooper (8:06)

Thanks for having me here today.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (8:08)

Looking forward to chatting with you and the very first question I want to ask you, because it's the title of your book, Citizen Science, but there are some debates about whether that's the right word to use. Can you tell us a little bit about the thoughts people have around that language and where you stand on it?

Dr. Karen Cooper (8:25)

Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Go right to the can of worms. Yeah.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (8:31)

Well, it's interesting.

Dr. Karen Cooper (8:32)

Yeah. So most of the concern around the term citizen science arose in the US Kind of around whether it might be excluding people because it conveys, like, this notion that you have to have some kind of citizenship status, you know, where it's really trying to. The intention, I think, of the term was to more convey that it's like a civic. Like. Oh, it's this civic opportunity to, like, contribute to something of importance. It's supposed to be citizen science. Yes. In the context of citizen of the world, person who feels responsibility and obligations to take part in things that help improve society and everything about our planet. So, yeah, it's more to convey, like, a responsibility rather than like something that might restrict people. Because really, participatory projects, no matter what they end up being called, are open to all. That is the main goal, and they're also meant to benefit all. The term really brought together a very interdisciplinary group of people. Like, there were scientists in so many different fields that were using what came to be called citizen science, but didn't even connect or know each other. There were astronomers, there were ecologists, you know, there were meteorologists, people from all different places. And then they realized they have this thing in common of, like, oh, wow, there's people who are helping our field as well. And so that was something that was powerful about the term citizen science. It didn't just bring together, like, volunteers. It also brought together scientists, and they worked really hard to get it into law. So there's actually a law, US Federal law, called the Crowdsourcing and Citizen Science act, and that has been folded into the US COMPETES act because it's recognized like that. These are really. The law basically gives the federal government permission to use data that is generated by the public. But there are problems with the phrase. It's still used globally. Like, there are citizen science associations in many other countries and continents, and the un, The United nations also does a lot of work with citizen science and that term. But, yeah, here in the US Some people want instead to call it community science. So from a public perspective, people should call it whatever they want within the scholarly world of academics, like trying to understand this field and be able to do it better and understand Our ethical obligations in it and how we should be designing these projects there. We just needed more clarity. And in that larger field, community science means science where the community, like a small community of place, has a need for access to science and they partner with scientists to fulfill those needs. Because citizen science refers to kind of like you were describing, like, these big efforts that generate these large data sets where people add all their local expertise and observations. So while citizen science, or that phrase or whatever, or that action was connected to communities, it was a little bit different from community science.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (11:49)

Why should anyone and everyone get involved in scientific discovery?

Dr. Karen Cooper (11:53)

Some people who get involved, it's because it dovetails really well with their interests and their hobbies. And. And really, it's a way for people to express, like, and even sometimes feel just that extra, like, validation for the things that they're interested in and the hobbies they love to do, Whether it's bird watching or weather monitoring or, like, you know, monitoring streams or drinking water or whatever. It might be places where people are interested. It's an opportunity to help contribute to, like, a greater discovery and, and be part of, like, a collective effort. Sometimes I equate it to democracy. It's like, oh, some people, like, have to be persuaded that their one vote matters. Oh, it's just one vote. But together, like, it changes policy, it changes the direction of things. In some ways, the participatory sciences are like that too. Oh, it's just my one observation. How could that be important? Well, if you keep it to yourself, it may never be important, but you share it with thousands, tens of thousands of others who are also sharing theirs. We start to see so many amazing patterns and we learn new things. So it's really like, for wanting to be part of a collective effort and shape the course of discovery, which is really exciting.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (13:13)

We talked about a discovery in another episode of a new plant species that was discovered in a national park. And it was by a volunteer who, I think, posted it to Inaturalist. And so it really just shows, like, yeah, you're one person, but that one observation could be part of its own new thing or a part of a big new group of data that you need every data point.

Dr. Karen Cooper (13:32)

Right, right. It's like when. When people developed the microscope and scientists could look at smaller and smaller things. There were so many new discoveries. In many ways, the participatory sciences, like, giving scientists millions of eyes and ears and senses, like, way, you know, all over the planet. And so, yeah, there'll be new discoveries.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (13:55)

Are there people who are perhaps skeptical of this type of science who maybe say it's not as real or rigorous if a study was based on data that was contributed by everyday people who don't have that academic training.

Dr. Karen Cooper (14:09)

Even though the practice of, of people who weren't trained professionals contributing to science goes way back as it became more like a term and a field, I feel like now it has gained acceptance because people have come to realize the ways that, that there are so many different ways to handle data quality. And, you know, whether it's statistical methods or different types of training or different consensus tools, like there's a lot of different ways, like there's a lot of attention that is made to data quality. And I think also people recognize, well, it's apples and oranges. It's not that people who are sharing observations are sharing exactly the same type of observation a scientist would share. They're just sharing more of a different type of observation. Right. I think the proof is in the pudding. And there's just. There's literally thousands and thousands of research papers and discoveries that have happened with these data sets that were generated by volunteers, you know, that have been through peer review and that are validated and all those kind of things. And so, yeah, I think people have accepted. I think scientists have accepted participatory sciences and citizen science as a, as a valid and rigorous approach.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (15:23)

Are there, are there any major discoveries or contributions either in projects you've led or studied, or just any favorites you have that you can share that were really much like, led by observations from everyday people participating?

Dr. Karen Cooper (15:35)

There's ones that have appeared on the COVID of Science and Nature, like top journals, like one that comes to mind was observations of the night sky from globe at night and a couple of other projects where people simply observe what they can and can't see in terms of constellations in the night sky. And from people doing that over decades, scientists were able to document sort of loss of the night sky, like the growing extent of light pollution from cities and skyglow that actually keeps people from being able to see a lot of the night sky. There's an iconic example is the monarch butterflies migrating from the Midwestern US 4,000 miles down to Mexico. It was a lot of teachers, actually and their students capturing and putting little tiny tags on monarch butterflies and then releasing them. I mean, and this went on for decades before finally there was someone who spotted another volunteer who spotted a tagged monarch in Mexico. Right. And so that this, that was like a puzzle that for entomologists for, for so long was where do those monarchs go? Like no one imagined that this small insect could migrate so far and back to.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (16:53)

That was like a non technological way to track their migration through these tags by student volunteers, right?

Dr. Karen Cooper (17:02)

By little.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (17:03)

Yes.

Dr. Karen Cooper (17:04)

It was made possible by advances in postal stamps when it became, when stamps became little because you used to have to use glue when they became little stickers, people were able to make little stickers that could go on Monarch butterflies and yeah, it was just so easy and affordable. And so yeah, that was like a huge mystery solved. I have looked through literature and documented that about half of what we know about migratory songbirds and climate change is from citizen science data sets. So like so much of what we know there, like in terms of birds breeding earlier, like those kind of things, and also people who just literally go out and find nests, you know, that might be on their doorstep, you know, it might be a phoebe on their porch or whatever or others. But yeah, that's. See that's the thing about it. There's so many hobbyists, there's so many people who. It's just their hobby that actually dovetails so well with science.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (18:00)

I really love the example you gave of the students and their teachers participating in the science because that's such a great educational tool. And then how much pride you would have as a young student to see that you contributed to this new body of knowledge. It's really exciting. I have an exciting last question for you. Okay, looking ahead, how do you see this type of citizen science evolving in the next decade? What do you hope to see change the most?

Dr. Karen Cooper (18:27)

What I would hope to see change the most is that we go from where there's thousands, tens of thousands and millions of people really sharing their observations, that that continues, but that they begin to share more than just their observations. That they begin that it is, that it is people sharing their values and priorities to help to help drive like the directions that science should go. Because there is an unlimited number of things that we don't know and that we could pursue. I also hope that as people are involved in science in this way, in terms of contributing observations and sharing like in that way, that people come to see that their data are really valuable in so many ways and that that there's value in retaining some kinds of controls of our data which people seem to have kind of given up on in terms of like letting company, like letting our data be used in so many different ways, like with participatory sciences, we handed our data over and our observations, it's like for this purpose, for this thing that I value and I want to advance and help with that discovery and that effort. And I kind of wish that we could be more intentional with our data in everything. And so maybe it'll be a practice that people extend to other parts of their lives. There's a lot of ways that we have remote sensing and different types of sensors. It'd be nice to be able to, I think in the future we'll complement those data sets together. I think there's always need to place emphasis on what people experience on the ground in real life, in addition to what a sensor is telling us, whether it's like a local sensor or a remote sensor. And having that local input make meaning of it is I think going to be always be really important.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (20:18)

I love that's a great point. I'm really excited to see citizen science pull more people into the process of science and hopefully that can be healing to some of the tension and polarization we're experiencing when it comes to perceptions of science. So I think it could really be great to pull more people in. So I am very excited about it and I'm so grateful we got to chat with you. Dr. Karen Cooper is a professor of participatory science at North Carolina State University. Thank you so much for being on our show, Karen.

Dr. Karen Cooper (20:48)

Yeah, thanks so much for having me. It's been fun.

Dr. Samantha Yamin (20:51)

Awesome.

Dr. Karen Cooper (20:58)

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Dr. Samantha Yamin (22:57)

Quick question when was the last time you checked your carbon monoxide detector? If you're like me, maybe it's been a while. I'm not here to give you a slap on the wrist over that. But carbon monoxide poisoning is no joke. Every year, the United States alone sees about 50,000 emergency room visits and roughly 1500 deaths due to carbon monoxide inhalation. And while the current treatment option works, it just isn't as efficient as it could be. So a research team from the University of Maryland School of Medicine recently released a study that could change how we treat this issue. They re engineered a protein that acts as a sponge, sopping up the carbon monoxide molecules in our bloodstream. Then we simply pee it out. And it does this in minutes. The research team discovered their special protein in a species of bacteria where it's used for sensing carbon monoxide levels. This protein is shaped a little like hemoglobin. That's the protein in our blood that carries oxygen to different parts of our body. But their version is way stickier for carbon monoxide than oxygen. They modified this bacterial protein to grab the carbon monoxide before the hemoglobin in our blood can. It's like filtering out the toxin before the blood distributes it to the body. And it doesn't get in the way of hemoglobin's job to carry oxygen to where we need it. When someone has carbon monoxide poisoning, the only current treatment option is to flood the body with 100% oxygen, usually through a pressure or hyperbaric chamber. It's a slow process, taking an hour or more to flush out the bloodstream. But after injecting mice with their new engineered protein, their bodies cleared half of the carbon monoxide from their blood in less than a minute. Now, they only tested it in mice so far but this treatment, if approved, could be used by first responders in the field and become the first antidote to carbon monoxide poisoning. We still have a ways to go until this hits the mainstream, so in the meantime, be sure to check your carbon monoxide detectors because it's a sneaky, odorless gas. I'm going to go take a look at mine now for Warner Bros. Discovery Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Teresa Carey. Our producer is Chiara Noni, our audio engineer is Nick Kharisimi and head of production for Wheelhouse DNA is Cassie berman. And I'm Dr. Samantha Youmeen. Thanks for listening.

Dr. Karen Cooper (25:20)

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