Red Dye 3, Extremophiles, Butterflies

Summary

Curiosity Weekly: Red Dye 3, Extremophiles, Butterflies
Hosted by Dr. Samantha Yammine
Release Date: February 12, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of Curiosity Weekly, Dr. Samantha Yammine delves into a trio of fascinating scientific topics: the recent FDA ban on Red Dye 3, the intriguing world of extremophiles with astrobiologist Dr. Lynn Rothschild, and the biology behind the fluttery feelings often associated with romance and Valentine's Day.

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Red Dye 3: Understanding the FDA Ban

As Valentine's Day approaches, Dr. Yammine addresses a pertinent issue affecting beloved holiday treats—the FDA’s decision to rescind authorization of Red Dye 3, a common food dye found in various candies. Dr. Yammine breaks down the science and regulatory background behind this move.

"One month ago, the FDA announced it was rescinding its authorization of the Red Dye 3, meaning it will no longer be allowed in food," explains Dr. Yammine ([02:20]). The decision was primarily based on mouse studies from the 1980s that linked the dye to thyroid tumors in male rats. Despite subsequent studies showing no cancer effects in other animals or humans, the FDA invoked the Delaney Clause, a stringent regulation that prohibits any color additive found to cause cancer in humans or animals.

Dr. Yammine highlights the international perspective, noting that Red Dye 3 is already banned in the EU, Australia, and New Zealand, except for specific exceptions like candied cherries. Conversely, Canada continues to permit its use, interpreting the same scientific data under different regulatory frameworks.

"Without a Delaney Clause regulatory authority, Health Canada can apply expert discretion. And right now, they assert that Red 3 does not pose a health risk to the general Canadian population at the levels set out in its guidance," Dr. Yammine states ([04:10]).

The discussion emphasizes the balance between regulatory safety standards and consumer choice, exploring alternative natural dyes and the complexities of food safety.

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Extremophiles and the Search for Extraterrestrial Life

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to an insightful interview with Dr. Lynn Rothschild, an esteemed astrobiologist at NASA's Ames Research Center. Dr. Rothschild’s expertise in extremophiles—organisms that thrive in Earth's most hostile environments—provides a window into the potential for life beyond our planet.

Exploring Extremophiles

Dr. Yammine introduces Dr. Rothschild’s work by stating, "She's an astrobiologist who specializes in extremophiles and what that means for our search for extraterrestrial life here on Earth" ([06:28]). Dr. Rothschild elaborates on her role, explaining that astrobiology addresses humanity's oldest questions about life's origins, diversity, and future.

"Astrobiology tackles three big questions: Where does life come from? What does it mean to have a habitable world? And are we alone?" Dr. Rothschild shares ([07:15]).

She details how extremophiles adapt to extreme conditions, such as high salinity, extreme pH levels, intense radiation, and temperature extremes. However, she clarifies that extremophiles are not a single taxonomic group but are united by their ability to survive in challenging environments.

"Extremophiles are like Olympic athletes; they have very different specialties, but they’re all part of the same club," Dr. Rothschild analogizes ([13:14]).

Synthetic Biology and Space Exploration

Dr. Rothschild discusses the cutting-edge field of synthetic biology and its applications in space exploration. Projects like the "Health Cell Project" aim to engineer organisms capable of surviving extraterrestrial environments, such as Mars, by enhancing their ability to detoxify harmful substances like perchlorates found in Martian water.

"We are designing organisms that can detoxify perchlorates, making Martian water safe for human consumption," she explains ([22:03]).

This innovative approach not only supports future human missions by providing sustainable solutions but also expands our understanding of the potential forms life might take on other planets.

"Life is the technology that can solve these problems," Dr. Rothschild emphasizes, highlighting the synergy between biological research and engineering ([24:03]).

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Butterflies in the Stomach: The Science of Romance

As Valentine's Day festivities coincide with scientific inquiry, Dr. Yammine explores the physiological and psychological underpinnings of the "butterflies in the stomach" sensation commonly associated with romantic attraction.

"The feeling of butterflies is actually part of a stress response within the body," Dr. Yammine explains ([25:03]). This response is triggered by the release of adrenaline during moments of anticipation or anxiety, such as a first date or giving a speech.

Dr. Yammine breaks down the biochemical cascade:

• Adrenaline Release: Increases heart rate and prepares the body for a "fight or flight" response.
• Reduced Gut Activity: Decreases blood flow to the digestive system, causing that fluttery sensation.
• Vagus Nerve: Decreased activity in this nerve affects gut movement during stress.
• Hormonal Shifts: Elevated cortisol and reduced serotonin levels contribute to the intense emotions of early infatuation.

"Over time, oxytocin can take over if things progress to a more stable form of attachment," she notes, explaining why the sensation of butterflies may diminish in long-term relationships ([25:03]).

This segment underscores the intricate connection between the mind and body, illustrating how emotions can manifest physically through complex hormonal and neural interactions.

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Conclusion

In this episode of Curiosity Weekly, Dr. Samantha Yammine skillfully intertwines diverse scientific topics, offering listeners a comprehensive understanding of each subject. From the regulatory complexities of food dyes and the resilience of extremophiles to the biological basis of romantic feelings, the episode provides a rich tapestry of scientific exploration.

"We have another show for you next week that will be sure to expand your mind. You won't want to miss it," concludes Dr. Yammine, leaving listeners eager for more intriguing discoveries ([29:30]).

Notable Quotes:

• "Extremophiles are like Olympic athletes; they have very different specialties, but they’re all part of the same club." — Dr. Lynn Rothschild ([13:14])

• "We are designing organisms that can detoxify perchlorates, making Martian water safe for human consumption." — Dr. Lynn Rothschild ([22:03])

• "Life is the technology that can solve these problems." — Dr. Lynn Rothschild ([24:03])

• "The feeling of butterflies is actually part of a stress response within the body." — Dr. Samantha Yammine ([25:03])

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Credits

Produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA:

• Senior Producer and Editorial Correspondent: Teresa Carey
• Producer: Chiara Noni
• Audio Engineer: Nick Karisimi
• Head of Production for Wheelhouse DNA: Cassie Berman

Curiosity Weekly is brought to you by Warner Bros. Discovery.

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Stay Tuned

Don’t miss out on future episodes where Dr. Yammine continues to unravel the mysteries of science, making complex topics accessible and engaging for all listeners.

Transcript

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[Dr. Samantha Amin]

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[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Foreign.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Hello. Welcome back to Curiosity Weekly from Discovery. My name is Dr. Samantha Amin, and we've got a fantastic show for you today. We're going to dive into some of the latest and greatest in recent scientific research. So whether you're a science fanatic like me or you just want to have some interesting info to share at dinner parties, we've got you covered. Let's get into it. You probably know that Valentine's Day is this Friday, so obviously we gotta talk about it. We'll dig into the science behind what exactly causes us to feel those butterflies when you're first attracted to someone. As well as the recent FDA ban on Red Dye 3, a food dye that's pretty popular among some Valentine's Day candies. Personally, the candy is my favorite part of the holiday, so I'm really glad we get to talk about this one. But Valentine's Day isn't the only thing we're celebrating this week, because yesterday was the International Day of Woman and Girl in Science. I'm very passionate about opening doors for people of all genders to research and science. I want to see a place where everyone can thrive in exploring the world and space around us. And that's exactly what our guest today has done.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

You're looking into a world that is absolutely real, but in some ways it feels imaginary. And you certainly feel privileged to be part of this world. It's incredible. I don't know how else to describe it.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

That's Dr. Lynn Rothschild. She's an astrobiologist who specializes specializes in extremophiles and what that means for our search for extraterrestrial life here on Earth. Her research looks into some of the most severe environments on the planet and the organisms that can live in them. Love is in the air. And so are those iconic candy hearts with sweet little messages. So we gotta talk about one of their ingredients that was recently banned by the US FDA. It's Red Dye 3. One month ago, the FDA announced it was rescinding its authorization of the Red Dye 3, meaning it will no longer be allowed in food. It cited mouse studies that link the dye to cancer. But we'll get into the details.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Now.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

The law won't come into effect across the US until 2027 for food and 2028 for ingested medications like cough syrups. So until then, you can find this ingredient on some candy cakes and drinks. It's listed as Red Dye 3. Red 3, Red 3, FD and C Red Dye 3 or Erythro seen. It's got a lot of names. The FDA isn't the first to ban Red Dye 3. It's already banned from use in food in the EU, Australia and New Zealand, for example, except in certain types of candied cherries. What a fun exception to make. And by the way, it's not banned at all in Canada. So how worried should we be? And I mean this because I live in Canada, so should I be worried? Here's where it gets interesting. The first few studies linking the dye with thyroid tumors in male rats were from the 1980s. And many expert agencies, including the FDA, reviewed the data back then in 1990, and essentially they found it worth keeping an eye on. They took some partial action by banning it in cosmetics and topical medications, but decided the evidence wasn't strong enough to enforce a complete ban in food. Since then, the cancer effects haven't been found in other animals, including female rats, male, either sex of mice, gerbils or dogs, and importantly humans. The FDA asserts it's never been linked to cancer in humans. They explained in their announcement that it's because the thyroid tumors seen in rats seem to be due to changes in a specific hormone, tsh. And studies in humans to date have not shown the dye to cause those hormonal changes. The effect so far has seemed pretty specific to male rats. So why the ban? If the science doesn't show that it's dangerous for humans, can't we have our red candy hearts and eat them too? It turns out the ban's because of something called the Delaney Clause. It's a law that means if there are any studies showing ingesting a color additive can cause cancer, whether in humans or even just animals, the FDA cannot authorize it. The Delaney Clause pretty bluntly requires that if any evidence exists, the color additive must be deemed not safe as a matter of law. So the fact that the studies seem to be exclusive to male rats and cause thyroid tumors under really high doses and through rat specific hormonal responses, it just doesn't matter. That's how the law is set up in the us In Canada, for example, the same scientific data is interpreted through a different set of laws, and the outcome is, well, different. Without a Delaney Clause regulatory authority, Health Canada can apply expert discretion. And right now they assert that Red 3 does not pose a health risk to the general Canadian population at the levels set out in its guidance. Now, colour additives in Canada are regulated. There are strict rules about how much of each can be used in foods, especially when multiple dyes are combined. There are other options to dye food, like beet juice, pigments from purple, sweet potato, radish and red cabbage. But natural isn't necessarily better. At the end of the day, it's all about finding the right balance to keep our food safe and enjoyable. Come on down to Boost Mobile and turn your tax refund into six months of savings.

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[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Today we have the privilege of speaking with Dr. Lynn Rothschild, an astrobiologist at NASA's Ames Research Center. Dr. Rothschild is a leading expert on extremophiles, organisms that thrive in some of the harshest environments on Earth. I'm so excited to talk to her about how they can inform our search for life beyond our planet. Her work spans synthetic biology, space exploration and the origins of life itself. Dr. Rothschild, welcome to the show.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Oh, it's my pleasure.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

You're an astrobiologist, a synthetic biologist. You combine a lot of my favorite topics, space and biology. It's incredible. Can you tell us, what does an astrobiologist do? What is it? What does it look like to be an astrobiologist?

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Well, there are all sorts of things that astrobiologists do, but astrobiology basically gets to what I like to think of as humans oldest questions. I mean, obviously the first thing that our ancestors had to figure out was, you know, where's dinner coming from and how to make babies and that kind of thing. But I can also not say so with any difficulty. Imagine our ancestors looking up in the sky and wondering if there are other creatures out there and looking around and wondering about this diversity of life and rocks and stars and all sorts of things. And wondering where they came from. And of course wondering what was gonna happen in the future, because that's part of being human. And those are the three big questions that astrobiology tackles. Where does life come from? And what does it mean to have a habitable world? Where did these chemicals come from that allowed the origin of life? So it's evolutionary biology, but really writ large now the where are we going? Is very much of a mirror image of the where we come from in that just because we're here doesn't mean that the sun isn't continuing to burn hotter and that galaxies aren't moving around, that the Milky Way and the Andromeda galaxies will someday merge and that actually the universe may continue to expand and drift off into nothingness, or it may reset. There's ideas of the big crunch and the big whimper. Everything is big. Who knows, you know, it's going to be past my lifetime. And of course we now have intelligence in the universe. We're here, we don't know if there's other intelligence. Are we alone as intelligent creatures or there's others that are already working on preventing an end of the universe or maybe hastening one. And actually it doesn't even matter to me as an astrobiologist quite as much if there are other intelligent creatures. But this third question is really are we alone at all? Is this thing called life a one off event that happened on planet Earth and is truly, truly unique? Or is it something that happened more than once and maybe it's very common? I just say that when I started in this business, we knew about one solar system for real, and that was the solar system that we're sitting in. Now we imagine, imagine that there were others, but we didn't have really good evidence. And now with missions like Kepler and JWST and so on, we know about literally thousands of solar systems. And it turns out ours is not actually the typical one. Now imagine as a biologist if the same revolution happened over the next 20 years. So instead of having one form of life that I could look at, there were say 9,000. And I said to you, ah, life is just amazing. I mean, I can already say life's amazing. But if I said There are over 9,000 life forms we know about and it turns out that we're atypical that most of them do this and that and the other thing, and we do this and it just boggles the mind as a biologist. What if there was more than one life form? So again, these three big questions, where do we come from? Where are we going and are we alone? Are the big three in astrobiology.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

A lot of people's favorite science topic is extremophiles. These very hardy little organisms that can live in some of the harshest conditions. And astrobiologists like you have found life in previously unthinkable places deep inside the Earth's crust. Extreme acidity, basic conditions. Hydrothermal vents at 122 degrees Celsius to frozen seawater at minus 20. I know I'm preaching to the choir here. What makes an organism an extremophile?

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

So to me life, at least on earth, and we could argue that life anywhere in our universe is based on organic carbon. So it's not carbon that you find in the organic section of the grocery store. This is carbon that's bonded to hydrogen and oxygen. So it's basically everything except diamond rings and carbon dioxide and carbon monoxide. So it's organic carbon and using water as a solvent. And once you buy that, it means that any condition where it's difficult to have carbon molecules stay intact. So for example, over 400 degrees or so Celsius, organic carbon turns into carbon dioxide. So that means that that's going to be a hard limit. But the higher you get, the worse it is. All organic molecules absorb radiation. So therefore radiation is going to be difficult and challeng for any life form. And similarly, if you're going to use water as a solvent, that means if you no longer have liquid water, it's going to be very hard to be an organism. And what I mean by liquid water, I know that sort of sounds like an oxymoron, but water of course can be in a gas form, it can be steam, it can be liquid like you drink out of a cup. And it also can be solid like ice. And so what organisms on the earth use as their solvent is liquid water. It can't be ice form, it can't be steam. And so now your immediately thinking it's got to be between 0 and 100 centigrade. So in other words 32 and 212 Fahrenheit. And then to have organic reactions occur, you might need to certain ph range, you might need a certain salinity for your biochemistry to work. So extremophiles are organisms that sort of live out in that edge where it's very difficult, if I can use the expression, to keep body and soul together.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

For they're very hardy organisms. The examples that often come to mind are tardigrades, different bacteria, do they share common characteristics? Overall, if you look at the whole of them living somewhere super cold, super acidic or super hot.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

No, they don't. So extremophiles are not really a taxonomic category like horses or dogs or fish or something like that. For example, we know there are brine flies that can live at very high salinities. That doesn't mean that there are plenty of of other flies that would die instantly in those high salinities. There are bacteria that can live at very high salt concentrations. There's one alga that's particularly good at that, Denaliella, but that doesn't mean all algae are good at that. So the commonality really is the ability to figure out how to live in that particular environment. Not being an extremophile, that's what buys you membership in the club. It's just like, I'm going to riff here, it's like being an Olympic athlete, they're not all the same because someone one curling and someone one high jumping and someone one swimming. So they have very different specialties. But they're all Olympic athletes. And the same thing with extremophiles, they all have their specialties. Now, that being said, organisms that live in high salt or low ph tend to have the same types of adaptations that the other ones that live in low PH or high salinity have. But then there are other sorts of environmental extremes where there are different approaches be able to survive that. So for example, radiation, there are a whole lot of different mechanisms that are used to be able to survive high levels of radiation.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Do you have a favorite, I gotta ask.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Oh, gosh.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Yeah, of course.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Right. But I will say that my background and my love has been more with single celled eukaryotes. So algae and protozoa, I mean, the fact is they're a little bit bigger, they've got more personality than bacteria. I have to be a little careful because my husband studies bacteria and archaea and they're extremely useful, they're interesting in many ways, but they just don't have personality. So you look through a microscope, my heart just melts over an algae or protozoan. And so yeah, I gotta say that I'm always cheering for them.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I was cackling, reading some of your past interviews and someone asked who inspires you and you mentioned a lot of great mentors and then you said also protists. I just thought, you know what, I get what you mean. They are just super cool. And there's no other feeling than looking through a microscope and seeing, oh absolutely, it's a wild thing.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

But there's one other feeling, and I've discovered this being at NASA. I happened to be fortunate enough to have a microscope to look through when I was in third grade. But many of my colleagues at Ames had a different experience. They got to look through a telescope out at the stars.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

That's true.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

It's a similar sort of thing. And the best way to describe it for someone who hasn't is you're looking into a world that is absolutely real, but in some ways it feels imaginary. And you certainly feel privileged to be part of this world where you don't see other people. It's just. It's incredible. I don't know how else to describe it, but if there's anyone listening who has never looked through a telescope or a microscope, pick one and do it.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Grade 2. I saved up all my tooth fairy money, all my allowance, everything I had, and I bought myself a not so great little telescope. But that was great.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Wait, wait. So you sold your body parts to buy a telescope?

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

And I would do it again.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Good for you.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Maybe a better one this time. I only got to see the moon, but it was enough to get me hooked. And so excited. I have this nagging question every time I learn about what it takes for life to exist. Would any organism, any bit of life out there in the beyond, couldn't it find a way to evolve in its own right beyond the constraints that we see on Earth?

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

So, yes, I think that we probably could. Now, one of the things that people don't tend to think about in this extremophile biz is the fact that no one lives in just an oxygen gradient or just a ph or a temperature gradient. You live at a ph and a temperature and a salinity and an atmospheric pressure all at the same time. And not very many people have looked at these combinations. We are starting to do this sort of thing. It's a project that we're calling Baselining Planet Earth. What we find, we really are not able to. To take a naturally evolved organism from planet Earth and push them any further into that environment? Big deal. You might say, well, it could be important for industry on the Earth. But more than that, for someone at NASA, what I think is, what if there is a planet or moon out there who has exactly those conditions? Do we need to cross that off as a habitable location just because we don't have anything on life on Earth today that can live in those environments? And that's where the synthetic biology can come in. Can we make new genes? Can we make novel combinations of genes? Or perhaps novel organisms and be able to transcend those limits for life. And that's yet another project that's going on in my lab. Can we actually fill some of these niches? Can we push life, even as we know it, to go beyond what we think are these barriers? And I should add that there's another important use for this sort of line of research for NASA, and that is back to the getting human, humans off the planet, whether we're talking about the moon or moving on to Mars. And that is the conditions on the surface of either body are really, really awful for life. I have not a lot of patience with people who say, oh, we can just move to Mars. You know, the very best place on Mars is so infinitely worse than the worst place on Earth. But the fact is that we are moving back to the moon and we will move on to Mars and we will need a biological infrastructure, particularly on Mars, to able to have human settlement. And so wouldn't it be great if we could have organisms that even if they can't live on the surface because you don't have liquid water, at least live closer to the environmental parameters that are on the Moon and Mars? So, for example, the ability to withstand higher levels of radiation than would normally be found on the Earth, so you don't have to have the same kind of radiation protection. So those are some of the things that we're interested in addressing in this project. I don't want to really avoid using the word. A lot of the people in my lab like to call it making synthetic EXTREMO files. And that sounds very, you know, sort.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Of just combining two fancy things.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

But the students who started this project came up with, I think, a better term about a dozen years ago that I actually prefer, and that is they call it the Health Cell Project.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

What is it? The Hell cell.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Yes. And that's what I'm sticking with. We're making hell cells.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I also, I mean, that's fair, but that may be a cold hell too, I guess.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Cold, salty hell, Yeah.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

I do have more questions on synthetic biology. So why don't we just jump there and we'll jump back to extremophiles. So synthetic biology, this field that's engineering new functions, new into biology, making cells and other biological units that work in a new way that might not already exist. What are the, like thinking of what we have coming in our near future with space exploration? The Artemis missions bringing us outposts on the Moon and Mars in the next few decades. Why are folks like you at NASA so excited about synthetic biology for making that big milestone possible.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

We have a big project right now Growing habitats using fungal. Mycelium mycelia are just the hair, like threads that grow beneath the surface. So it's really the body of most fungi. So why not, instead of having them bind the soil on the earth, have them bind, say, dehydrated wood chips or martian or lunar surface material regolith to build actual houses or furniture or beds or tables or whatever. So that's something we're definitely working on in my lab, or using synthetic biology as a way to be able to make organisms that can then, on demand, produce pharmaceuticals. So that's another project we've been having for quite a while.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Is that the astropharmacy?

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

That's the astropharmacy project. Currently, we're ramping up on one where we're designing organisms that can detoxify perchlorates. Now, that sounds like a mouthful, but perchlorate is a fairly simple molecule with chlorine and oxygen in it. But it turns out that the structure is such that it's very toxic. So if you look at the concentration of perchlorates in the water On Mars, it's 10 times or more beyond the level that would be considered toxic in the state of California. So it is not something that we would be able to drink off planet. And there are a few organisms that have figured out how to detoxify perchlorates, how to break it down into chlorine and oxygen. The problem is these are not organisms that really lend themselves to use for space infrastructure. So what we're doing is taking those capabilities and putting them into organisms that would be able to be useful on Mars. And therefore, we hope someday to be used to take this water that is laced with the perchlorates and clean it up so that you can drink it or use it to water your potatoes or whatever.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

It's so awesome. When I was reading about astropharmacy, it's such a cool concept you're taking. You know, there are limitations to the medications we have here on Earth. They have short shelf lives. Then there's also this concept of engineering basically new organisms that can do these useful things to protect human health, like cleaning the water or making it drinkable. And it's so cool that you can kind of pick and choose the traits that would be useful for this new landscape of living through synthetic biology.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

And this really has been exciting. We started off talking about wearing two hats. And I grew up as a scientist, and I finally understand what it means to be a scientist. Particularly from my point of view as a biologist, you look around at the world that nature has wrought, whether it's a rock or a tree or the stars or whatever, and you think, oh, isn't this cool? And you study it. That's what a scientist does. An engineer makes something new. And so being able to do both in my career has really given me a great privilege. This has been my thing for the synthetic biology is to look at what NASA's needs are and they're happy to tell you what their needs are. There are all sorts of lists with multiple sub lists and so on. We need a better propellant or we need a way to have long lasting medications or whatever. And most people look at those and think, well, what can I build as an engineer to solve those problems? And I look at those problems and say, are we missing something? Maybe life is the technology that can solve these problems.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Thank you so much, Lynn. It has been fascinating talking with you. I could talk to you for hours. Thank you for giving us your time and chatting with us today.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

It's been my pleasure. Thank you. Sam.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Do you remember the feeling of your first middle school crush? It's exciting, it's hopeful, it's all encompassing. And honestly, I found it pretty terrifying. Maybe you felt butterflies in your stomach when you were walking over to their desk to give them a Valentine's card. Or maybe you felt the flutter when you flirted with them or before your first date. Whatever experience you had or didn't. To celebrate Valentine's Day this week, I had to investigate what's really going on here. What's the scientific reason behind having butterflies in our stomachs? And why is it so intertwined with feelings of early romantic connections? First off, the feeling of butterflies actually doesn't just have to do with love and romance. You can feel butterflies with a whole range of experiences, from job interviews to giving a wedding speech, even writing an essay to. I don't know if you have my brain. Public speaking is totally chill, but I am not chill. If I don't get the aisle seat on the plane. Ooh, cue stress. That fluttery feeling is actually part of a stress response within the body. So when you're experiencing, preparing, or even just thinking about something that can be interpreted as anxiety inducing, your body is already going through the motions trying to help you process that. That's where those butterflies come in. They're not actually in your stomach, but probably closer to your gut. We don't know exactly what's going on here. I mean, it's a pretty hard study to do in humans. Imagine trying to find people willing to get ready for their first date in a research lab. Or even having their first date in a research lab sounds like a nightmare. But we can piece together a bunch of the puzzle pieces to figure out what's at play. Let's use the scenario of getting ready for a first date. You're a little nervous and you're hoping that the other person is as into you as you are into them. This can be stressful. And our good old brain kicks off the fight or flight hormonal response, thinking there's some sort of actual danger. This release of adrenaline speeds our heart rate, makes our palms sweaty, dilates our pupils. All the things to feel completely overstimulated right at the beginning of the date. So I mean, no wonder those first few minutes can be awkward. This fight or flight response reduces blood flow to the gut because danger is just not the time to be focusing on digestion. So that change with the coursing adrenaline can cause fluttery gut sensations. As part of that response, one of the main nerve pathways connecting the brain and the gut, called the vagus nerve, has decreased activity. That nerve's time to shine is when we're in a chill rest and digest state. And we need our guts in action so that change reducing gut movement could also be a part of the flutter. The stress hormone cortisol can also get involved. And psychiatrist Dr. Richard Schwartz says as cortisol plus drops in serotonin contribute to the obsessive phases of early infatuation. But the can't eat, can't sleep, all consuming stress feeling of early infatuation doesn't last forever, thank goodness. Over time, another hormone, oxytocin, can take over if things progress to a more stable form of attachment. So if you're many years in and don't feel the butterflies as often, that kind of makes sense biology wise. So don't worry. I think it's so cool that the language we've used for decades to describe feelings like love, they have so much yet to be explored science behind them. I've forever been fascinated in how our thoughts or feelings can manifest in the rest of our bodies. Their so called psychosomatic responses, the mind body connection, is undeniable when it comes to how we regulate stressful situations. And learning about this can provide some really interesting insights and to how all of our body systems are integrated with one another. So though it may just feel like first date jitters, there are so many different processes at play to help you manage your emotions and biology in that moment. Pretty romantic, right? Here's what we learned about today. That feeling of having butterflies in your stomach when you have a crush on someone. Yeah. That's our body's way of managing a stressful situation. And it all has to do with our gut brain connection. I spoke to Dr. Lynn Rothschild, who told me all about the ins and outs of extremophiles and how they relate to the potential for life in space. We also got into the recent ban of red dye 3 and what the effects of that will be. We've got another show for you next week that will be sure to expand your mind. You won't want to miss it. For Warner Bros. Discovery Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Teresa Carey. Our producer is Chiara Noni. Our audio engineer is Nick Karisimi. And head of Production for Wheelhouse DNA is Cassie Berman. And I'm Dr. Samantha Yamin. Thanks for listening. I love them. They have updated phrases now. Like, some of them are like tight. Text me like, yeah, the mind is too possessive now. Yeah. Yeah. If it has sugar out here. Addicted to Red Dynamite. Look at all of him. Yeah, like there was one that said, like, email me.

[Dr. Lynn Rothschild]

Stop.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Are you. Are we emailing people anymore? You are hot. Yeah. Or what about just an emoji? The eggplant. Just kidding. We're recording. Well, I sat into where I said bodily fluids weirdly today.

[Eugenio Derbes]

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