Sharks Ghosted South Africa and Alison Towner Has the Receipts

Summary

Curiosity Weekly Podcast Summary: "Sharks Ghosted South Africa and Alison Towner Has the Receipts"

Release Date: July 16, 2025
Host: Dr. Samantha Yammine
Guest: Dr. Allison Towner, Renowned Great White Shark Scientist

---

Introduction: The Fragile Web of Ocean Ecosystems

Dr. Samantha Yammine opens the episode by highlighting the intricate balance of ocean ecosystems, emphasizing the pivotal role sharks play as apex predators. She states, “From neuroscience to climate tech to AI and genetics, no subject is off-limits,” setting the stage for an in-depth exploration of shark behavior and conservation.

The Stability Sharks Provide

Dr. Yammine delves into the concept of cascading effects within food webs, explaining how sharks maintain the health and stability of marine environments. She remarks, “It isn’t sentimental, it’s strategic,” underscoring the essential nature of sharks beyond their iconic status.

Focus on Hammerhead Sharks: Home is Where the Heart Is

The discussion shifts to hammerhead sharks, particularly those inhabiting the waters around Andros Island in the Bahamas. Dr. Yammine shares fascinating research findings:

• Non-Migratory Behavior: “These hammerhead sharks aren't migrating up to the east coast of the U.S. like many sharks in the region do,” she explains, highlighting their preference for the stable, resource-rich environment of Andros Island.

• Habitat Characteristics: The area boasts deep drop-offs, abundant prey, clean reefs, and protected marine zones, creating an ideal sanctuary for hammerheads seeking to avoid long migrations.

Interview with Dr. Allison Towner: Unveiling the Mysteries of Great White Sharks

First Encounters and Lifelong Passion

Dr. Towner recounts her first close encounter with a great white shark during a cage dive in Haags Bay on January 19, 2007. “I will never forget that moment,” she shares, describing the awe-inspiring sight of a dorsal fin slicing through the murky waters.

South Africa: A Prime Habitat for Great Whites

Dr. Towner explains why South Africa is a hotspot for great white sharks:

• Diverse Environmental Conditions: “South Africa really offers white sharks absolutely everything in terms of prey species and also environmental conditions,” she notes, referring to the convergence of warm tropical and cold temperate waters that support a rich diversity of prey.

• Abundant Prey: The presence of Cape fur seals and a variety of pelagic fish species provides ample food, making South Africa one of the best places globally to observe great whites.

Pioneering Research: Quantifying Shark Populations

Discussing her 2023 study, Dr. Towner emphasizes the complexities of tracking white sharks:

• Population Trends: “The results were clear. Many of the sharks weren't just passing through. They had picked a favorite hangout and stayed close,” she explains, revealing that their preferred spots provide the necessary resources for survival.

• Challenges in Data Collection: “The science just cannot keep up with the changes,” Dr. Towner remarks, highlighting the difficulty in monitoring sharks that adapt by moving to deeper, less observable waters.

Impact of Orca Predation

A significant portion of the discussion centers on the unexpected rise in orca predation on great white sharks:

• Increased Encounters: Dr. Towner shares her surprise at observing orcas preying on sharks multiple times in a specific region, a phenomenon not widely documented elsewhere. “You cannot downplay the impact that orcas have on white shark numbers and their behavior,” she asserts.

• Ecological Implications: The interaction between orcas and sharks adds another layer of pressure on already vulnerable shark populations, exacerbating the threats posed by fishing industries and habitat degradation.

Conservation Through Shark Tourism

Dr. Towner advocates for responsible shark tourism as a vital conservation tool:

• Education and Awareness: “Shark cage diving can play a critical role for white shark conservation,” she states, emphasizing how firsthand experiences foster appreciation and support for conservation efforts.

• Support for Research: Collaboration with organizations like Marine Dynamics and the Dyer Island Conservation Trust enables essential research and monitoring despite limited government funding.

Upcoming Shark Week Features

Anticipation builds as Dr. Towner teases her appearances on upcoming Shark Week specials:

• Air Jaws, Return of Colossus, and Great White Assassins: She provides insights into the meticulous work behind capturing spectacular footage of great whites, promising viewers breathtaking visuals and groundbreaking research findings.

The Role of Certification: Marine Stewardship Council's Efforts

Dr. Yammine transitions to discussing the broader impact of sustainable fishing practices:

• Shark Fin Trade: She unveils the grim reality of the fin trade, “The fin trade alone is worth nearly a billion dollars,” highlighting its devastating effect on shark populations through practices like finning.

• Marine Stewardship Council (MSC) Certification: Dr. Yammine explains the importance of MSC certification in promoting sustainable fishing:

  • Stock Health: Ensures fisheries exploit healthy and sustainable fish stocks.

  • Ecosystem Protection: Mandates methods that minimize bycatch and ecosystem destruction.

  • Legal Compliance: Requires adherence to international and local fishing regulations.

• Consumer Responsibility: She encourages listeners to “look for the label” on seafood products, reinforcing how consumer choices can drive positive change in the fishing industry.

Conclusion: Every Ripple Counts

Dr. Yammine wraps up the episode by reiterating the interconnectedness of ocean ecosystems and the critical role sharks play within them. She emphasizes that individual actions, such as supporting sustainable fisheries and responsible tourism, collectively contribute to the preservation of these magnificent creatures. “If the oceans are going to have a shot, sharks need to survive,” she concludes, inspiring listeners to stay informed and engaged in conservation efforts.

---

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Allison Towner on Orca Impact:
  “[Orcas] cannot downplay the impact that orcas have on white shark numbers and their behavior.”
  (Timestamp: 14:20)

• Dr. Yammine on Shark's Strategic Role:
  “It isn’t sentimental, it’s strategic.”
  (Timestamp: 05:30)

• Dr. Towner on First Shark Encounter:
  “I will never forget that moment. [The encounter] is etched into my memory forever.”
  (Timestamp: 09:01)

• Dr. Yammine on Consumer Action:
  “Your choices matter because companies track demand.”
  (Timestamp: 25:00)

---

Production Credits

Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA, with senior producer Teresa Carey, producer Chiara Noni, audio engineer Nick Kharisimi, and head of production Cassie Berman. Host Dr. Samantha Yammine expertly guides listeners through the latest scientific inquiries, fostering a deeper understanding of our world's most fascinating phenomena.

---

Stay Curious: Subscribe to Curiosity Weekly and share this episode with fellow ocean enthusiasts to support ongoing conservation efforts and scientific discoveries.

Transcript

[Sean Linda]

What's up? It's Shawn Linda from two black guys of good credit. If managed supply runs is still on your to do list, here's your science upgrade. Walmart Business has the tech tools and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team. Think scheduled deliveries, multi user accounts and even IT setup bonus. With a Walmart Business plus membership, you get free shipping, spend analytics and 2% rewards. Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com Terms apply.

[Carvana Representative]

Thanks for selling your car to Carvana. Here's your check.

[Customer]

Whoa.

[Time Traveler]

When did I get here?

[Carvana Representative]

What do you mean?

[Customer]

I swear it was just moments ago that I accepted a great offer from Carvana online.

[Time Traveler]

I must have time traveled to the future.

[Carvana Representative]

It was just moments ago. We do same day pickup. Here's your check for that great offer.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

It is the future.

[Carvana Representative]

It's, it's the present and just the convenience of Carvana. Sorry to blow your mind.

[Customer]

It's all good. Happens all the time.

[Time Traveler]

So sell your car the convenient way to Carvana. Pick up. Times may vary and fees may apply.

[Monday.com Representative]

I'm now switching my team to some fancy work platform that somehow knows exactly how we work. And its AI features are literally saving us hours every day. We're big fans. And just like that, teams all around the world are falling for Monday.com with intuitive design, seamless AI capabilities and custom workflows, it's the work platform your team will instantly click with. Head to Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Remember those science class lessons where we learned every ecosystem is a delicate web and even the smallest disruption can send ripples across the planet? Turns out those food webs are even more fragile and fascinating than we realized, especially when it comes to sharks. For this Shark Week episode from Discovery, we're diving into the science of cascading effects and why sharks are such a critical piece of the puzz. We'll kick things off by exploring how sharks migrate in unexpected ways. Then I'll sit down with shark scientist Allison Towner for an insider's look at great white shark research, especially what's happening to these apex predators off the coast of South Africa.

[Shark Scientist]

And before we wrap, we'll decode what.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

The blue label on your seafood really means for sharks and the health of our oceans. So grab your snorkel. Our second episode of Shark Week starts now. Thanks for joining me on Curiosity Weekly. I'm Dr. Samantha Amin, here to guide you through the latest curiosities from the world of science. There's no place like home. There's no place like home. That famous line Judy Garland said in the wizard of Oz. It's actually something great hammerhead sharks live by. Well, some of them, that is great. Hammerheads are critically endangered. These sharks grow slowly, they have few babies and are super vulnerable to overfishing. Their global population has dropped by more than 80% over the last few generations. That's not great. So if we want to save them, and we do, we've got to figure out where they like to hang out and when. There are some that like to take long distance ocean road trips and then there are others who just want to be home, like Dorothy. A team of researchers found a group of hammerheads that really don't like to travel far. Their home is in the clear turquoise, cobalt blue and teal saltwater off the coast of the biggest island in the Bahamas, Andros Island. These hammerhead sharks aren't migrating up to the east coast of the U.S. like many sharks in the region do, they actually stay put in the warm tropical waters around their island. Year after year, same spot. It's giving that same kind of Dorothy Energy. Between 2020 and 2024, a team of scientists tagged 22 Great Hammerheads and tracked their movements with a little help from Discovery's Shark Week. They combined that with already collected data, bringing their total to 78 sharks in their dataset. And the results were clear. Many of the sharks weren't just passing through. They had picked a favorite hangout and stayed close. The spot is just 400 square kilometers off the east coast of Andros. It's not massive, but it has everything they need to feel safe at home. The waters of Andros island clearly offer a perfect combination. Deep drop offs full of prey, clean reefs and protected marine zones all make this a pretty cozy home for any hammerheads looking to avoid a long migration. When it comes to food, these sharks aren't exactly picky. But they do have favorites. By analyzing mussel samples, researchers figured out that the hammerheads are mostly snacking on stingrays and barracudas. Scientists don't fully understand why some stay and others leave. It's still a bit of a mystery, but it could come down to diet, genetics or even shark personality. One thing's clear. If a shark finds enough food and nice cool waters to chill in, it just might decide to stay put. But not all sharks stick around. Some still head north to the US which shows just how important it is to have protection in place, both locally and internationally. Because even if a shark lives part time, in a protected area, it could still end up in unprotected waters. These Bahamian sharks are giving scientists some helpful clues, and hopefully this research will help shape better protections for hammerheads everywhere. So when we say there's no place like home, it's not just about ruby slippers or nostalgia. For these sharks, no place like home is about survival. It isn't sentimental, it's strategic. And it shows how much place, familiarity and pattern matter, even in the wild, not just in Kansas.

[Sean Linda]

What's up? It's Sean Linda from Two Black Guys of Good Credit if managed supply runs is still on your to do list, here's your science upgrade. Walmart Business has the tech tools and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team. Think scheduled deliveries, multi user accounts and even IT setup. Bonus with a Walmart Business plus membership, you get free shipping, spend, analytics and 2% rewards. Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com Terms apply Buying a car in.

[Carvana Representative]

Carvana was so easy I was able to finance it through them. I just.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Whoa, wait. You mean finance?

[1-800-Flowers Representative]

Yeah, finance.

[Carvana Representative]

Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from thousands of great car options all within my budget.

[1-800-Flowers Representative]

That's cool that financing through Carvana was so easy.

[Carvana Representative]

Finance done and I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Financed, right?

[Carvana Representative]

That's what they said.

[1-800-Flowers Representative]

You can spend time trying to pronounce financing or you can actually finance and buy your car today on Carvana financing.

[Time Traveler]

Subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.

[Podcast Host]

Breaking up is never easy, but saying goodbye to your old clunky work tools, well, that's easy. Just repeat after me. It's not me, it's definitely you, you rigid, unfriendly software. It's time to freshen things up with Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use. With stunning dashboards, customizable templates, and built in AI that actually works. Switching to a new work platform has never felt this good. So move on to Monday.com whenever I.

[1-800-Flowers Representative]

Need to send roses that are guaranteed to make someone's day, the only place I trust is 1-800-flowers.com with 1-800-flowers, my friends and family always receive stunning, high quality bouquets that they absolutely love. Right now, when you buy a dozen multicolored roses, 1-800-flowers will double your bouquet to two dozen roses. To claim this special double roses offer, go to 1-800-FLowers.com acast. That's 1-800-FLowers. Com acast.

[Shark Scientist]

Some sharks are celebrities in their own right. There are hammerheads with that distinct and iconic profile.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

There are whale sharks, the graceful beauties.

[Shark Scientist]

Of the ocean and the largest fish in the sea, the tiger sharks, who are sleek, relentless and known for their hunting capabilities. And yes, have tiger stripes, but the great white is the crown toothy jewel. Then right alongside the great white is another name of the human variety who commands just as much respect. Dr. Allison Towner. She's not just studying great whites. Allison is reshaping what you know about them. She's one of the top great white biologists on the planet and one of the most well known voices in marine biology. Her research hasn't just made headlines, it's changed the science. Allison doesn't just study sharks, she pushes the field forward in ways no one else has. When it comes to sharks, she knows what's up. She's on the upcoming Shark Week special. Air Jaws, Return of Colossus, as well as Great White Assassins. And today we get to chat with her. Welcome to Curiosity Weekly, Alison.

[Time Traveler]

Thank you so much for having me. Simon, what an epic introduction.

[Shark Scientist]

We're really excited to chat with you, if you can't tell already.

[Time Traveler]

Oh, it's lovely to be here.

[Shark Scientist]

I want to start with something fun. You've spent a lot of time around sharks, so I need to ask, do you remember the first time you saw a great white up close? What, like, what's a moment like that like?

[Time Traveler]

Oh, I mean, absolutely. I think anybody that has seen a white shark will never forget that first encounter. It's such a privilege. And you know the species as much as there are so many different types of sharks, it commands its own sort of level of respect. And from childhood I was just obsessed and fascinated with them. So 19th of January, 2007, it was an afternoon shark cage dive here in Hans by where I live now, which at the time was known as the white shark capital of the world, especially for cage diving. And it was kind of murky green water. We waited a couple of hours for the shark to arrive, but I'll never forget that dorsal fin slicing up towards the boat. And they just, they command a certain type of, you know, respect on their presence. They are incredible. And so, yeah, it's etched into my memory forever. Without sounding cheesy, I will never forget that moment. And also thinking to myself, wow, this is one of the few creatures that you see in real life that's more impressive than what you see on screen. You just can't do them justice. You know, the difference between seeing Them in the wild physically and seeing them on a screen. So remember it well.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Are you nervous?

[Time Traveler]

So I remember getting into that cold water and going into the cage and of course the heart was racing. You know, all the quotes from Jaws were going through my mind about, you know, Hooper going in saying I ain't got no spit and all the classics. Yeah, I remember that very, very, very clearly. But yeah, once you see them from a boat, it's one thing, but then getting down underwater and physically seeing them in their world again, completely just mind blowing experience.

[Shark Scientist]

You specialize in shark behavior and populations around South Africa, but great whites can be found all over the world. So can you explain to our listeners why South Africa is such a hotspot and what it is about this environment that's so well suited to this species?

[Time Traveler]

Yeah, for sure. South Africa really offers white sharks absolutely everything in terms of prey species and also environmental conditions. So as you know, white sharks are really unique in that they're able to not only occupy, occupy tropical ocean environments, but also very cold temperate environments. So South Africa has both on offer. It has the very warm tropical Indian Ocean to the one side of it and then to the western side of it, it's got the cold Atlantic Ocean. And right along the coastline and out into the shelf, there is just an abundance of prey species that white sharks would be interested in foraging for. Primarily, they're known here to hunt the Cape fur seal that's become very famous on Shark Week over the years with air jaws showcasing the spectacular aerial displays of the sharks hunting the se literally by launching at them like rockets. But it's not only about the seals here. There's just such a diversity of species. We have one of the highest shark species diversities on the planet. And remember that smaller sharks are also a big part of a white shark's diet. We've got a lot of different pelagic fish species. You can just see by the sheer amount of dive options available in South Africa just how much food is available for white sharks. So particularly since the early 1990s, this country has been renowned as one of the best places on the planet for seeing the white shark.

[Shark Scientist]

Wow, that's amazing. And in part of your work there in 2023, you co authored a study that really seemed to set the standard for how to quantify shark populations to examine if white sharks off South Africa are declining or just shifting where they're distributed. It was, I think, the most thorough analysis of white shark abundance index in South Africa. So I'm wondering if you could tell us a bit about that research and how it's shaped your understanding of what's happening with white shark populations there.

[Time Traveler]

Oh, that's such a cool question. It's really nice to be able to talk about that on this platform.

[Monday.com Representative]

Cool word.

[Time Traveler]

Well, you know, the problem is quantifying white sharks. Where they go and what they do is inherently complicated. So in 2015, there became a big urgency to try and look at the numbers. You know, is it a shift, as you say, is it a complete disappearance? And a lot of debate centered around this. And what came out of it was there was no trend. So some of these white sharks have realized it's too risky to stay coastal, and they're totally capable of occupying deeper waters and proliferating in those pelagic areas. But we'll never see them there and we'll never know about them. It doesn't mean they've left South Africa completely. It might just mean they've left coastal zones. So that's what we're really trying to get into now with the satellite tracking. I always say with this story, the science just cannot keep up with the changes. And I think it's really important to point out here that nobody is blaming orcas. The one thing that we never had previous though was this intensified orca predation pressure. Orcas have killed white sharks in the US They've killed them in Australia, New Zealand. We know this. But they haven't repeatedly returned to the very same aggregation sites multiple times a year for almost a decade. But the picture is far more nuanced and complex than I think the media give it credit for. You know, the data is out there. It's up to science and policy and these top tiers of government now to really use this data and collaborate with all the different stakeholders to drive change now, because it is. It's a critical time period.

[Shark Scientist]

It feels like one of the hard parts of studying a creature that is so versatile. It's hard to follow and see because it's adapting and changing. And as you said, it's hard for the science to keep up. I wasn't gonna bring up orcas yet. I was gonna wait till later. But since you brought them up. No, no, I think we should talk about it because it is interesting and it is what a lot of people jump to. So you've done a lot of research on orcas and their predation in South Africa and the way that they kind of hunt great whites quite intensely. You've even caught them on camera. You've looked at evidence of carcasses seeing how serious of predators they can be. So I want to hear from you what you want people to know more about this and your research, tracking what they're doing.

[Time Traveler]

I just happened to be the person studying white shark ecology in a bay right central in the Western Cape where they were aggregating in high numbers. I just put a bunch of acoustic tags on them. I wanted to look at their movement ecology. Never in my wildest dreams did I expect that year that there would be two orcas arrived that we don't know, we've never seen before. They were typically very rare in the region. I was working, I'd been there already 15 years, working every day at sea, pretty pretty much never seen orcas in my life. So this was really a new thing that came in and it basically disrupted my entire PhD. It left me sat there, scratch, scratching my head, going, where's all my data just disappeared to? And you know, in amongst it, it was a lot of. It was like a CSI investigation because you've got these dead white sharks washing out, ripped open, livers extracted. Surgical precision always gets quoted because it literally is very precise extraction of an organ by a very large animal. And then once we established that we, we believe the orcas were responsible for these carcasses washing out and subsequently these disappearances of white sharks after that time period, it then became about trying to figure out, you know, where do the sharks then go. And some of the acoustic transmitters that we had on showed that the white sharks fled. They did what we call the flight response. So they moved very rapidly and very directionally a long distance away from where the predations were encountered. There's so many threats in our oceans that sharks face these days, particularly here in South Africa where we do have the KZN shark nets, which are lethal drum lines, lethal gillnets, which are specifically there to target and remove large sharks. Along the KZM province. We also have many different types of fisheries off South Africa. A lot like elsewhere in the world there are industrial trawlers, you know, there are many different fisheries, longliners. So we already know there's a heap of threats here on them. Now we've got this additional pressure of orca predation and a whole disruption in what white sharks do. But I wasn't prepared for the fact that they then really, after repeated exposure, just abandoned site. That to me is actually fascinating from a predatory perspective. It hasn't been documented to this extent anywhere in the world. Like I say, orcas do prey on sharks. We know that offshores do that it's normal, they're all around the world. There are encounters with white sharks and orcas elsewhere, but nothing like the intensity that we've seen here. So you cannot downplay the impact that orcas have on white shark numbers and their behavior. And if you've already got an ocean that's putting so many pressures, sorry, human pressures onto this species now this natural pressure that's come in additional can be absolutely devastating. And to say natural might not be the correct term either because why have these orcas arrived here? Has something caused them to abandon? Because they're not youngsters, you know, they're adults. So they've come in with the knowledge of how to depredate sharks. Have they learned that at fisheries? Are they without food themselves in the regions that they used to inhabit? They've been forced inshore. It's not without risk to take down white sharks. So, you know, there's a lot of questions as to why the orcas are here now, coastal in South Africa doing this and they weren't before. So I always say the dots are connected and I don't believe it's an orca problem versus a human problem that I think that there's very much, you know, complex web of threats and they're connected to it all. And to downplay one narrative is not helpful at all.

[Shark Scientist]

I know that since you've worked as a tour guide and you've seen a lot of, you've seen a lot of people interacting with sharks for the first time. And I'm wondering what role that type of shark tourism, specifically like shark cage diving, plays in the conservation of white sharks.

[Time Traveler]

Some of the best moments in my life with white sharks have been out there on the ocean with people from all over the world who've never encountered or seen a white shark before. And just their reaction, you know, that first time seeing a white shark, it's just, it's absolute appreciation for the predator. Conservation wise, shark cage diving can play a critical role. So here in South Africa, the operator I worked for was Marine Dynamics. They have an NGO called the Dyer Island Conservation Trust. So they were. Remember, we don't have government funding for white shark research in South Africa and white shark research is really costly. So these operators provide not only a paid for platform for researchers to go out and observe and collect data, but also the, you know, they provide a platform to be able to garner additional funding. So that's, that's really important. And also they, they have a role of monitoring as well. Those boats are out daily, so if they're not on the water, eyes on the sea. Watching these white sharks and counting them and doing a census every day. It's a no man's land out there. There's no enforcement. So if illegal fisheries wanted to go in and just help themselves to the white shark, that would be a very real issue issue down here in South Africa. So I do believe that the shark cage diving can have a critical role for white shark conservation. Internships and volunteer programs gives them sort of young marine biology students access to an absolutely very rare opportunity. But yeah, I do stand behind the fact that if managed correctly, shark cage diving can be beneficial. All in all, I think it's a really important tool and I think if we look overseas at how the industries are regulated in areas like Australia, it's really encouraging to see what can the.

[Shark Scientist]

Average person do if they care about protecting shark species and supporting the research.

[Time Traveler]

Yeah, I mean if you're in a position, you know, privileged position to be able to travel overseas and go and physically get into a cage and see a white shark and support any of these, these companies that are doing legitimate research, I mean that in itself goes a long way, I think. What can people do, the everyday sort of person that's interested and passionate on sharks, if you are able to get hold of a scientific paper or even these days a lot of papers are summarized in infographics or videos. And if you're to get hold of true knowledge and share it in a non biased way, that's really important and also not just digest popular media all the time as fact. What I'm trying to say is learn how to critically think and share the right info that goes a long, long way.

[Shark Scientist]

That's a great tip. Just making sure that we're amplifying and spending what I call our social currency online on things that are factual and accurate. Now I am very excited to watch you on Shark Week this year. What can you tell us about what we can expect from the show Shark Week?

[Time Traveler]

For me, this is now over 10 years of working with Shark Week. I think longer. Yeah, I'm 40 this year in August and I think the first Shark Week show I did I was like early 20s. So I've really grown up being a part of this big buildup at this time of year too. And Air Jaws is iconic and to me it's something that Shark Week's been missing the last few years because I'm a little bit biased. It's South Africa. It's flying Shark Week sharks. It's not just South Africa. This particular episode without giving spoilers is there's a large segment of it filmed in New Zealand, and we're looking for a specific shark that back in 2012, became such an icon. His name, we called him affectionately Colossus. Big dominant male shark. The most spectacular breed I've ever seen. He became completely airborne at sunset, the most beautiful light, and he really captured the world's imagination. And so this particular show this year is exploring could he be elsewhere. And you know, Jeff Kerr is a producer. He often gets given the nickname the Godfather of Shark Week. He's been in it for over 30 years, and his dedication to filming those breaches is something to behold. So he puts more time in than I've seen any producer put in, in terms of relentlessly being in the field. All the slow motion cameras, you know, the ducks, you have to align to get that kind of a shot. It's just pure magical cinematography, but it is a slog to get that kind. There's another show, the first opening night called Great White Assassins, which I'm also on, which is right after Edge, or that's also. I'm coasting that with a colleague, and we went to New Zealand and then we did a whole bunch of experiments with the white sharks there. And orcas, fake orca decoys, death contraptions, you know, the usual stuff. Oh, yeah.

[Shark Scientist]

Usual stuff for you. Mind blowing.

[Time Traveler]

For me, I think you can expect some of what shark beak used to be, you know, that iconic, the beautiful breaches, and that in itself should be celebrated. I think there's nothing else like seeing a white shark a couple of feet in the air and it's in its glory. But no, I'll never, ever take it for granted. It's such an opportunity. Hey.

[Shark Scientist]

Wow. I can't wait. Very, very excited about that. Thank you. Dr. Allison Towner is one of the world's leading great white shark scientists and is not known for her groundbreaking work studying them off the coast of South Africa. She's on Instagram allisontowner. That's one L in Allison. She's featured on the Shark Week special Air Jaws, Return of Colossus, as well as Great White Assassins on Discovery. Thank you so much for joining us, Alison.

[Time Traveler]

Thank you so much for having me, Sam. What an honor to chat and also to get into the science. It was really nice to have the opportunity, so thank you.

[Paul De Gelder]

Foreign it's that time of year again, back to school season. And Instacart knows that the only thing harder than getting back into the swing of things is getting all the back to school supplies, snacks and essentials you need. So here's your reminder to make your life a little easier this season. Shop favorites from Staples, Best Buy and Costco, all delivered through Instacart so that you can get some time back and do whatever it is that you need to get your life back on track. Instacart, we're here.

[Sean Linda]

What's up? It's Sean Linda from two Black Guys of Good credit. If Managed Supply Runs is still on your to do list, here's your science upgrade. Walmart Business has the tech tools and services that make it ridiculously easy to stock up for your office or team. Think scheduled deliveries, multi user accounts and even IT setup bonus. With a Walmart Business plus membership, you get free shipping, spend, analytics and 2% rewards. Join the smart way to shop at business.walmart.com Terms apply.

[Monday.com Representative]

Oh, I'm not switching my team to some fancy work platform that somehow knows exactly how we work, and its AI features are literally saving us hours every day. We're big fans. And just like that, teams all around the world are falling for Monday.com with intuitive design, seamless AI capabilities, and custom workflows, it's the work platform your team will instantly click with. Head to Monday.com, the first work platform you'll love to use.

[1-800-Flowers Representative]

At 1-800-flowers.com we know that connections are at the heart of being human. Whether celebrating life's joys or comforting during tough times, 1-800-Flowers helps you express what words can't. For nearly 50 years, millions have trusted 1-800-Flowers to deliver thoughtful gifts that help create lasting bonds. Because it's more than just a gift. It's your way of showing you care. Visit 1-800-flowers.com acast and connect today, that's 1-800-flowers.Com acast.

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

The fishing industry is wrecking sharks. That's the part you and everyone else we don't want to hear. But it's the truth. People talk about shark attacks, conservation, even sharkitecture. Check out last week's episode, FYI. But the real damage to these amazing creatures is still going under the radar. Content warning. But sharks are getting hauled up by the millions killed and discarded. It's not just a side effect of fishing, it's the actual goal. The fin trade alone is worth nearly a billion dollars, so much of it is illegal or it's disguised as something else. But I'll be real with you. The truth is that you or I could eat a piece of shark without even knowing it. The Marine Stewardship Council is on a mission to end all of this. And you've probably seen their certification labels on frozen fish packages or even menus before. It's that little blue sticker with a white check mark that kind of looks like a fish with its mouth open. And the Marine Stewardship Council's name is all over msc. It's not a guarantee that everything's perfect, but this is a real attempt at drawing a boundary between operations that follow rules and those that intentionally break the rules when it comes to ethical fishing practices. In order for companies to get that certification and label on their branding, a fishery has to prove three big things. Number one, they have to prove that the stock they're fishing isn't collapsing or from threatened populations. The seafood has to come from healthy and sustainable fish stocks. Number two, they have to show their methods don't destroy the surrounding ecosystem, because sometimes extra fish or sea animals get caught by accident, like our beloved sharks and even sea turtles. You know how we love our baby sea turtles on this show. When this happens, it's likely they'll die in the process. So, for example, the shrimp and tuna industries, they use trawl nets and long lines, and those are notorious for having high bycatch. And last but not least, there's number three, the privilege of having that little blue fish check mark sticker means that a company has to prove that they aren't breaking any laws. If they can't back that up with evidence, like real, verifiable, tangible evidence, they don't qualify. That's it. They have to abide by both international and local regulations to get it. It also means they need to have effective management in place to show that their company can adapt to changing environmental conditions. And all of this means that shark protection is built into that system. And it means that you can't get the certification if you're not paying attention and being responsible. So if a fishery is killing threatened shark populations on purpose or allowing high bycatch rates, they lose the label or just don't even get it at all. If they're finning sharks, they're out. That kind of practice is banned in MSC certified fisheries. And I'm sorry, another content warning here, but if you've never heard of shark finning before, this is what it is. A shark gets pulled in alive, its fins are cut off and it's thrown overboard, and they just don't survive. It's really brutal and it's still happening. This is what the MSC does. They stop things like that from happening. They run DNA tests on certified seafood to Check for fraud. So if someone's mislabeling products, they can investigate. If the data doesn't hold up, they pull the certification. They'll cut off access to the label for entire fisheries that fail to comply. But like I said before, it's not just sharks. The seafood industry as a whole has a serious bycatch problem. Trawlers dragging for shrimp end up killing turtles and dolphins. Long lines for tuna pull up seabirds and endangered fish and most of us will never see it. We just walk into the grocery store or market and look for the nice packaging. Now, illegal fishing is part of this, too. That goes back to following those enforced laws that I described. There are boats out there who fish until there's nothing left to fish. And then they can just motor on and sell the product into supply chains that don't have checks and balances in place. And once it's filleted and frozen, it's almost impossible to trace. That's why certification matters, because it's about accountability. It matters for sharks, but it's really a big picture game, too. I mean, how much more can the ocean take? How much more should we take? Because when apex predators like sharks disappear, the whole system becomes unstable and that'll snowball into affecting everything else we eat from the ocean. It also affects coastal communities and economies. Think of your favorite fish and chip shop. It might not be able to stay open if practices like the ones MSC are fighting continue. These standards affect everyone and your choices matter because companies track demand. If you start buying certified seafood, more fisheries will apply for the label. Then standards rise and the bad actors lose. I'm not saying this solves everything, but I think it's something we can all do right now. Just look for the label. That cute little blue and white fish check mark. Because if the oceans are going to have a shot, sharks need to survive. And then personally, I want Shark Week to keep going on forever and ever. Thanks for joining me on Curiosity Weekly. I'm Dr. Samantha Amin, here to guide you through the latest curiosities from the world of science. I hope today's episode gave you a new perspective on how everything is connected, from the top predators to the tiniest fish. And why our choices matter. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe and share it with your fellow ocean lovers. Until next time, stay curious and remember, every ripple counts. Happy Shark Week for Warner Bros. Discovery. Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Teresa Carey. Our producer is Chiara Noni. Our Audio engineer is Nick Kharisimi, and head of Production for Wheelhouse DNA is Cassie Berman. And I'm Dr. Samantha Yamin. Thanks for listening.

[Shark Scientist]

I did have a side question that our team was wondering that. I was like, I'll put this on the end, but do sharks fart? I'm very curious.

[Time Traveler]

If sharks fart, I mean, yeah, of course. If air gets trapped in and, I mean, they do. They do number twos. It kind of looks like a big cloudy mess. So I imagine air may escape at that point. Can't say I've ever heard it. Can't say yeah, I've ever experienced it.

[Shark Scientist]

But I was trying to look it up, and then I was googling like, where is a shark shark's butt? And then it got weird. And so I was like, I'm just gonna ask.

[Time Traveler]

This is gonna sound, like, super unscientific now, but they have these tiny sphericals on their head, so when they gulp air through their mouth, it's almost like a stream of bubbles. It's the tiniest little pimpiry. A stream of bubbles comes out their head often as they dive, you know, down. And different species of sharks have different pronounced sphericals. I don't know if you could call that a head fart. Yeah, I mean, that's air eggs.

[Shark Scientist]

It's exiting the sharks.

[Customer]

I'm Paul De Gelder, and I'm an environmentalist and adventurer and former Navy diver. This is how to survive a shark attack on shark week, returning July 20th on Discovery. I want you to be prepared if you have a potentially deadly encounter with the world's most feared ocean predator. In 2023, around 39% of all shark bites happen to swimmers and waders just enjoying a day at the beach. This could happen to anyone. Attacks like this have affected everyone from boaters to beachgoers. And I should know. I survived one. I lost my hand and my leg to a shark, and I survived. But I'm not here to tell you my story, because it could have been anyone's. It could have been yours. And that's why you need to know what to do. While shark attacks have seen a slight uptick in recent years, they still remain extremely rare. While they're absolutely terrifying, it serves as a stark reminder that the ocean is the shark attack domain and deserves our respect. Whether you're diving, capsized in a boat, swimming, or doing water sports, the crazy thing is about 45% of these attacks, bites, whatever you want to call them, they're happening when people are out conducting water sports. We show you what works, what doesn't, and what no one ever told you. My team and I have simulated and successfully survived four of the most dangerous shark scenarios imaginable. And if you want to survive a shark attack, these are the most important tips to remember. No jewelry Shiny objects mimic the glint of fish scales and make you look more like prey. And if you're going into deeper water, I highly recommend a mask and a set of fins. No one who attracts attract attention. No thrashing. Don't act like prey by splashing around. Smooth, calm movements like this. But if you're going into the shallows where most people feel safe, even here, you're in the shark's domain. So what do you do if it happens to you? Because I've lived this nightmare. There's no reason to be scared when you have the skills and are prepared. And you're going to learn how to survive a shark attack with me. Paul de Gelder on shark week returning July 20th on Discovery. Wanna go for a dip?

[Dr. Samantha Amin]

Sure, let's go.

[1-800-Flowers Representative]

Whenever I need to send roses that are guaranteed to make someone's day, the only place I trust is 1-800-flowers.com with 1-800-flowers, my friends and family always receive stunning, high quality bouquets that they absolutely love. Right now, when you buy a dozen multicolored roses, 1-800-flowers will double your bouquet to two dozen roses. To claim this special double roses offer, go to 1-800-flowers.com acast. That's 1-800-flowers. Com acastrunch.

[Sean Linda]

It's not Dima.

[Monday.com Representative]

Want to start sponsoring podcasts, but not sure where to start? Acast Smart Recommendations does the heavy lifting, finding you the perfect podcast that aligns with your target audience. From top shows to hidden gems, our aipowered tool scans thousands of podcasts to deliver you a list of personalized suggestions ready to reach the right listeners. Start now at go acast.com ads.