Women In Science & The Future of Male Contraception

Summary

Curiosity Weekly: Women In Science & The Future of Male Contraception

Release Date: March 19, 2025
Host: Dr. Samantha Yammine
Platform: Discovery

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Introduction

In the March 19, 2025, episode of Curiosity Weekly, host Dr. Samantha Yammine delves into two pivotal topics: the recognition of women in science and the innovative strides in male contraception. This comprehensive episode not only highlights the often-overlooked contributions of female scientists but also explores groundbreaking developments aimed at sharing the responsibilities of reproductive health between genders.

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Preserving the Legacy of Women in Science

Acknowledging Overlooked Contributions

Dr. Yammine begins by addressing the historical bias in scientific research and recognition, highlighting a significant policy shift by the NIH in 1993 to include women and minorities in funded studies. Despite this progress, she emphasizes that many female scientists remain unacknowledged.

Dr. Samantha Ameen (00:34):
"Before that, most studies focused almost entirely on men. So for Women's History Month, we're talking about how far we've come and how much further we need to go."

Interview with Katie Haffner

The episode features Katie Haffner, founder of the Lost Women in Science podcast and platform, who discusses the importance of uncovering and preserving the legacies of female scientists whose contributions have been historically marginalized.

Katie Haffner (01:10):
"For every Marie Curie or Rosalind Franklin out there whose story we know, there are probably thousands more whose stories we don't know and who, for whatever reason, time and place and gender, were shortchanged."
(Timestamp: 01:10)

The Matilda Effect and Historical Erasure

Haffner elaborates on the Matilda Effect, a bias where women's scientific contributions are often overshadowed by their male counterparts. She recounts the story of Dorothy Anderson, a pathologist who identified and named cystic fibrosis in the 1930s but received little recognition for her work.

Katie Haffner (08:59):
"Our season on Dorothy Anderson really went a long way toward correcting the historical record."
(Timestamp: 08:59)

Lost Women in Science Initiatives

Haffner details the initiatives taken by Lost Women in Science, including their extensive database of over 530 women scientists, book series for middle schoolers, and efforts to update and correct Wikipedia pages to ensure accurate representation.

Katie Haffner (07:55):
"We have a database of about 530 women, all of whom are deceased and have done amazing science and gotten very little recognition for what they did."
(Timestamp: 07:55)

Haffner also shares listener engagement strategies, such as a hotline that allows people to report forgotten women scientists, fostering community involvement in rediscovering and honoring these figures.

Katie Haffner (15:51):
"You can also write to us on our website. But we get a lot of our stories that way."
(Timestamp: 15:51)

Advice for Aspiring Women in STEM

Haffner offers advice to young women aspiring to enter STEM fields, emphasizing curiosity and an open mind as essential traits for scientific inquiry and innovation.

Katie Haffner (17:58):
"Do what a scientist must do, which is be curious, you know, be open, have an open mind."
(Timestamp: 17:58)

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The Future of Male Contraception

Transitioning from historical recognition, Dr. Yammine and producer Teresa Carey explore the emerging field of male contraception, highlighting the role of women scientists in this transformative area.

Current Developments in Male Contraceptives

Carey outlines two main developments:

1. NEST Gel (Neste Male Contraceptive Gel)

   • Dr. Stephanie Page from the University of Washington is developing a hormonal gel applied daily to the shoulders, containing Nesterone to suppress sperm production and testosterone to maintain hormone balance.

   Teresa Carey (20:36):
   "So far, early studies suggest that the nest gel is promising, but its real world effectiveness in preventing pregnancy it's still being evaluated."
   (Timestamp: 20:36)

2. YCT529 Non-Hormonal Pill

   • Developed by Dr. Gunda George and researchers at the University of Minnesota, this pill blocks vitamin A in the testes, preventing sperm production. It has shown 99% effectiveness in animal trials and is currently undergoing human trials for safety and efficacy.

   Teresa Carey (22:20):
   "They've shown to be 99% effective in preventing pregnancy in animal trials."
   (Timestamp: 22:20)

Motivations Behind the Research

The discussion delves into the motivations of women scientists leading these projects, emphasizing the pursuit of reproductive equity and shared responsibility.

Dr. Stephanie Page (23:41):
"I am very interested in women continuing to have reproductive agency as a critical component of them being equal citizens in the world."
(Timestamp: 23:41)

Carey highlights how male contraceptives could shift cultural norms, promoting a balanced approach to family planning and alleviating the disproportionate burden on women.

Teresa Carey (24:50):
"Equity is about having more options, but it isn't just about having more options. It's about that shared responsibility."
(Timestamp: 24:50)

Challenges and Public Perception

The episode addresses obstacles such as regulatory approvals and societal acceptance. While early studies indicate a positive willingness among men to adopt new contraceptive methods, skeptics remain concerned about trust and consistent usage.

Katie Haffner (25:30):
"Some males are hesitant, but studies show that a significant number would consider using male contraceptives, especially if they were reversible and low risk."
(Timestamp: 25:30)

Cultural Shifts and Future Outlook

Dr. Yammine reflects on the potential cultural transformations that male contraceptives might engender, advocating for continued support and research to realize a future of shared reproductive responsibilities.

Dr. Samantha Ameen (29:12):
"That's the best part about science. I think I was undervaluing this cultural mindset, this cultural shift, and how just significant that alone can be."
(Timestamp: 29:12)

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Conclusion

The episode of Curiosity Weekly bridges the past and future of women's roles in science, celebrating those who paved the way while spotlighting current efforts to redefine reproductive health responsibilities. Through engaging discussions and expert insights, Dr. Yammine underscores the importance of recognition, equity, and innovative science in shaping a more inclusive and balanced world.

Notable Takeaways:

• The Matilda Effect continues to obscure the contributions of many female scientists.
• Initiatives like Lost Women in Science are crucial for preserving the legacies of overlooked women in STEM.
• The development of male contraceptives represents a significant step towards shared reproductive responsibility and gender equity.
• Cultural acceptance and regulatory hurdles remain key challenges in the adoption of new male contraceptive methods.

By highlighting these themes, the episode serves as both a tribute to the women who have shaped science behind the scenes and a beacon for future advancements that promote equality and shared accountability in reproductive health.

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Produced by Wheelhouse DNA for Warner Bros. Discovery. Special thanks to Teresa Carey, Chiara Noni, Nick Kharisimi, and Cassie Berman for their contributions.

Transcript

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[Katie Haffner]

Foreign.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

Preteen and baby millennials all want a Game Boy. They're playing with their Beanie Babies, Gen Xers are glued to 90210 and Bill Clinton just got inaugurated. And then, somewhere in all of that, the NIH quietly made a huge change. They finally said they'd ensure, quote, women and minorities are included in all NIH funded medical research in only 1993. Before that, most studies focused almost entirely on men. So for Women's History Month, we're talking about how far we've come and how much further we need to go.

[Katie Haffner]

For every Marie Curie or Rosalind Franklin out there whose story we know, there are probably thousands more whose stories we don't know and who, for whatever reason, time and place and gender, were shortchanged.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

Katie Haffner is the founder of Lost Women in Science. It's a podcast and platform that reveals the women whose contributions to science have been overlooked or forgotten throughout history. She'll talk with our producer Teresa Carey about the importance of preserving their legacies to inspire future generations. Then later, I'll talk with Teresa about how women scientists are leading the charge in developing male contraceptives. This field is highlighting how shared responsibility and contraception can benefit all genders, changing the landscape of reproductive health. Let's kick things off with a wild discovery a woman made deep in the heart of Texas. A brand new plant species with a devilish twist. I'm Dr. Samantha Ameen, and this is Curiosity Weekly from Discovery. Okay, I love this story because for the first time in nearly 50 years, a brand new plant species was discovered in a US national park by park volunteer Deb Manley. She was exploring Big Bend national park one day and found something she had never really seen before. So she snapped a picture and uploaded it to this community science app called Inaturalist, where thousands of botanists and hobbyists, plant lovers of all kinds around the world, were trying to identify what this cute little plant was. Big Bend national park is no stranger to biodiversity. It's the largest and most biologically diverse warm desert desert in North America. There are massive canyons, vast desert expanses, forested mountains, and an ever changing river. That's where Deb found this brand new thing scientists are calling the woolly devil. After taking some samples back to the lab and doing DNA sequencing, they identified that it's actually part of the same family as sunflowers and daisies. That's the Asteraceae family, and it also includes lettuce, artichokes, dandelions. It's one of the largest plant families, but you wouldn't know at first glance that it's kind of closely related to sunflowers. To me, it looks like a small and fuzzy succulent. And in fact, the scientific name for it is Ovicula biradiata. And the name describes how it actually looks. Ovicula means tiny sheep because of the thick white fuzz that covers the plant's leaves. And then Biradiata, or biradial, is talking how it has, like these two ray florets that extend out. Basically it looks like these white petals that are long, but they have red strip, two devil horns. And so because of that, they call it the woolly devil instead of, you know, if you don't want to say Ovicula biradiata. And then under the microscope, they found some really interesting characteristics that were similar to some plants in the sunflower family that might indicate medicinal properties. I love that this was a discovery from a volunteer walking the park, getting out in nature. And it just shows anyone can and should participate in science.

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[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

The Matilda effect refers to bias that often undermines the recognition of women's contributions in STEM fields. All too frequently, men get way more credit for scientific achievements, even when women played crucial roles or sometimes even led those efforts. This deeply ingrained cultural norm diminishes the value of some of the most important scientific discoveries of our lifetimes. When we're looking at science from a historical perspective, I have to ask, if the history books aren't writing about women's accomplishments, how do we learn about them? Well, we have author and journalist Katie Haffner joining us at Curiosity Weekly to talk about it. Katie is also the co founder of the Lost Women In Science initiative and podcast, she spoke to our producer, Teresa Carey about overlooked women in science and the challenges and importance of preserving their legacies for future generations. Here they are.

[Narrator]

I'm excited to dive into the Lost Women of Science with you. It's such an important topic, and I have to tell you, when I first learned about Lost Women of Science and dug into it, looked on the website, listened to some of the podcast episodes, it made me rethink everything that I thought I knew about the history of science. You know, growing up, I learned about Marie Curie or maybe Rosalind Franklin if I was lucky. But that was about it. And it makes me wonder.

[Katie Haffner]

I'm so sorry. Yeah, but you're better off than a lot of people. A lot of people.

[Narrator]

That's true.

[Katie Haffner]

They know Marie Curie Vaguely.

[Narrator]

It makes me wonder how many stories are still missing. And what does this say about the way. About the way we tell the history of science?

[Katie Haffner]

Well, you know, we have this database of about 530 women, all of whom are deceased and have done amazing science and gotten very little recognition for what they did. And so that's just our database. And it grows every day. I mean, my theory, theory going into this, when we started Lost Women of Science was for every Marie Curie or Rosalind Franklin out there whose story we know, there are probably thousands more whose stories we don't know and who, for whatever reason, just were shortchanged. Yeah, some of them had credit just taken away from them by a man. Others made a very important contribution but weren't given the credit. That was the most compelling reason for us to start the podcast. We were originally thinking of just doing this with the very first season on Dorothy Anderson and calling it a date. And then we had this notion, we had this hunch that there were a lot more women out there.

[Narrator]

And so you have the podcast, but you also have other elements to Lost Women in Science. Can you tell me about a little bit about those?

[Katie Haffner]

So one thing we did very early on was pitch books, a series of books, to Penguin Random House, and they immediately picked it up so that we have three volumes for middle school readers coming out in succession, and we have 10 scientists per volume. I remember when I was little reading a book about Luther Burbank, of all people, and just being so struck by what he did. And I really carried it with me. And I think that we have a chance with the Bright Matter Books series to do the same thing.

[Narrator]

You mentioned a few minutes ago about Dorothy Anderson's story. And just for our audience, she was a pathologist in the 1930s, and she first identified and named cystic fibrosis. Her contributions were largely overlooked, even though she made this very significant scientific breakthrough. Why do you think so many women in science just seem to disappear from the historical record?

[Katie Haffner]

I think that Dorothy Anderson. The fact that she disappeared and her story was unknown can be attributed to a few things. One is the famous Matilda effect, where there was a man who. I don't know how aggressively he took the credit, but he didn't decline the credit. He didn't say, oh, no, no, no. Dr. Anderson did all of this, and she deserves as much recognition as I get that. Just as far as I know, it didn't happen. Our season on Dorothy Anderson really went a long way toward correcting the record, the historical record, which is one thing that we do very aggressively. And the other reason is that she. And this is heartbreaking. She probably didn't think that what she did was worth preserving in terms of. And when I say preserving, I mean her papers when she was at Columbia, her notes, her drafts, her lab notebooks, her autopsy reports, her correspondence with colleagues and with friends. None of that. It's even hard to tell you this because it's so sad. None of that got preserved. All we could find at Columbia University in their special collections was a tiny, thin folder. And in that folder were just some cards, some notes from patients saying. And from their parents really saying, thank you for helping my child. Just very little, very little. And I think it was just the only reason that that got archived and saved is that the person who took over her office at Columbia found that stuff in a drawer and gave it to special collections. So it's not like Dr. Anderson herself. Yeah. You know how people say, oh, I'm going to give you my papers, you know, for posterity and for future scholars. But I don't think she considered herself that important, which is unbelievably tragic.

[Narrator]

So she. She left behind almost nothing about herself.

[Katie Haffner]

Right, right.

[Narrator]

You said you have. With lost women in science, you have a database of. You said 500, more than 500 women.

[Teresa Carey]

Whose contributions have been overlooked.

[Narrator]

That's. That's really incredible. And it's also overwhelming.

[Teresa Carey]

How do you decide which stories to tell?

[Katie Haffner]

Oh, it's such a good question. So we have a spectrum. We have a continuum, and it goes from 1 to 10. So if you imagine at 10, it's like the Marie Curies and the Rosalind Franklins. It's like, they're good, they're good, they're done. And we don't need to worry about them. And then the all the way on the other end of the spectrum is the ones and that unfortunately, there are so many of those. Like, we barely know the woman's name. We tend to focus on kind of the 4, 5, 6 range of sort of the middle, where we think we have enough archival material, enough people to interview enough interesting science that her achievement was great enough and had enough of an impact on the world. One of the most interesting ones that we've done is Lisa Meitner. So Lise Meitner was a theoretical physicist in the early 20th century who actually discovered fission. So she figured out when her colleague Otto Hahn, who was a chemist, they were in Berlin, she had to flee because she was Jewish in 1938, and she was in exile in Stockholm still doing the work. He was back in Berlin and he was doing these experiments and he split the atom. But he didn't really understand what he had. He thought he kept making mistakes. And she explained to him what it was that he had done, and it was the splitting of the atom. It's really an amazing story. So he, of course, got the Nobel Prize. She was nominated for the Nobel Prize, not just for this, but for many other aspects of her very, very brilliant work. 49 times and did not get the Nobel Prize. Never won. I know, it's an unbelievable story. So we are. We've actually. We commissioned a play about her, Seattle Repertory Theater. We're pitching a TV mysteries crime series because one of our people, Mary Louisa Willard, was an amazing forensic scientist in the middle of the 20th century who sort of was a pioneer in all the. All the technical ways that crimes are solved, since she was apparently a total character. But the other thing that we're doing, which is really serious as an initiative, is that we have money from Craig Newmark of Craigslist. Craig feels really passionately about Wikipedia, and so he's given us a really generous grant to create and update and correct all the Wikipedia pages of all the.

[Narrator]

Women we feature and of their husbands who took credit for their work, correct those pages too.

[Katie Haffner]

Right, Exactly. I know, right? Yeah.

[Narrator]

And what has been the response, like, from listeners? Have you heard from young women or maybe even scientists who were impacted by the stories that you've shared?

[Katie Haffner]

Oh, yeah. I'm so glad you asked me that, Teresa, because we hear from so many, and everybody, like, has a favorite season or a favorite episode. Like just this last week in Hanoi, this one young woman, like, she's sitting, like, totally random. She's sitting there and she says, oh, I Just love the one about the, the woman who, who knew Freud and how mean they, how mean Freud was to her. And I was like, wow, really? And yeah, that's great. That's just great. And then the other thing we get, and I hope that listeners will clue into this, is that we have our, our hotline, our tip line. The number is 415-754-0625. You can call that number and just report a missing woman to us.

[Narrator]

Missing in the sense that they're missing from the history books.

[Katie Haffner]

Exactly. Yes, exactly. And you can also write to us on our website. But we get a lot of people, we get a lot of our stories that way.

[Narrator]

Oh, that's great.

[Katie Haffner]

I love that. Yeah, it is great. It is great. Yeah.

[Narrator]

And so representation is such a huge part of this. And you've talked about the kids that you've. That you've talked with, the book you're doing for middle schoolers, the book series. How do you think learning about these stories early in life at such a young age could shift how young girls see themselves in science?

[Katie Haffner]

Don't you think that they'll shift in that they will see that there's really. The sky's the limit. Like, what's they'll think? What's the problem? I hope they won't even blink.

[Narrator]

Are there any dream stories you haven't.

[Teresa Carey]

Been able to tell yet?

[Katie Haffner]

Oh, so many. Oh, there are so many. I was just talking to someone who's thinking of funding us for one episode about a cancer researcher. And I don't know anything about this woman, but I really want to look into her story. Her name was Charlotte Friend. We got this through the tip line. Someone just called us, an archivist at Mount Sinai and said, oh, you might be interested in this science scientist, Charlotte Friend, who made the link between viruses and cancer. And very early on, but, and this is the problem, she died young. And so there wasn't all that preparation for making sure that her legacy was protected in any way. So for Women's History Month, we're starting with this new season that I'm super proud of about a doctor named Andrea Evangelina Rodriguez Peroso, who was from the Dominican Republic. And she was a doctor who fought very hard for women's reproductive rights. And there's a very tragic end to her story, and I think it's going to be just great.

[Narrator]

What advice might you give young women in STEM today or interested in going into this field? What would be the one piece of advice you'd give them?

[Katie Haffner]

The one piece of advice. And I'm not going to go for the cliche, which is persevere. So obviously do that. But what I'm going to say is do what a scientist must do, which is be curious, you know, be open, have an open mind. There are so many of the women we've covered who just had this amazingly open mind to the world around them.

[Teresa Carey]

Katie Hefner is the co founder of lostwomeninscience.org where they are succeeding in their mission to uncover the lives of amazing female scientists lost to history. The Lost Women of Science documentary podcast starts its new season this week.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

The burden of birth control has fallen solely on the person who can get pregnant. For generations, the pill, the iud, the patch, the shot. They've given people control over the reproductive choices, but they've also come with side effects, risks, and an uneven share of responsibility. Despite all this, research into male contraception has remained underfunded and deprioritized for decades. Now there's a group of women scientists leading the charge to change that. They're developing new contraceptives that focus on the sperm side of things. It's not just to give men more options, but to create a future where birth control is a shared responsibility across all genders. Teresa Carey, Curiosity's senior producer, is with me and we're gonna walk through why these women have taken on this mission. Let's talk about recent developments. What's in the pipeline for contraceptives that stops sperm production or function?

[Teresa Carey]

There are a few promising options in development and several female scientists are working on this. So the first one I learned about is the work of Dr. Stephanie Page from the University of Washington School of Medicine. She's an investigator on the Neste male contraceptive gels. In this conversation, I'm going to be using terms like male contraceptives and female contraceptives to discuss medications that block ovulation or limit sperm. However, I recognize that these terms don't really capture the diversity of biological sex and gender identities. But I'm going to use them here for simplicity and to align with the common scientific terminology. So the nest is a hormonal gel which the male rubs each day on their shoulders. It contains two components, Nesterone, which suppresses sperm production, and testosterone, which is added to maintain normal hormone balance.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

A daily gel to the shoulders. That's super interesting. What an interesting like spot of application. How does it compare to the birth control pills in terms of effectiveness?

[Teresa Carey]

So far, early studies suggest that the nest gel is promising, but its real world effectiveness in preventing pregnancy it's still being evaluated. And for comparison, condoms are around 82 to 87% effective in real world conditions. And so that means about 13 to 18 out of 100 couples relying solely on condoms for contraception may still experience an unintended pregnancy.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

Let's hear more about the Neste trial.

[Teresa Carey]

The NEST gel is in human trials right now, and they're focusing on male, female couples in committed relationships. So both partners agree to participate in the trial. And this is important because the female has to stop taking their birth control and trust their partner to use the gel correctly and on schedule. So trust is really important here. And you can tell by the study design, the female partner stops taking their birth control and both partners have to be confident in the method's effectiveness and their partner's commitment to using it correctly. So the nest gel has shown promising results in early trials. Recent data indicated that it's effective at reducing sperm production in a significant number of men. So once the male participants start using the gel, it takes a little bit of time to lower sperm production to levels that can prevent pregnancy. And then once that sperm count reaches an appropriate level, then those couples rely solely on the gel for a year for the study.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

That's fascinating. So we heard about the shoulder gel or NEST trial. Are there any others in progress?

[Teresa Carey]

Yes, there is a non hormonal pill called YCT529, and that was developed by Dr. Gunda George and researchers at the University of Minnesota. And it's now in trials through your Choice Therapeutics in New Zealand. And so far it's been shown to be 99% effective in preventing pregnancy in animal trials. And this one, the pill, works by blocking access to vitamin A in the testes and therefore preventing sperm production. And the effects are reversible. So once the drug is stopped, sperm production resumes. And we know that a vasectomy is another option to block sperm, but that isn't considered reversible. It can be, but not really all the time.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

That's pretty good animal data. Are there any human trials with YCT529 yet?

[Teresa Carey]

Yeah, so they had a human trial in 2023. In drug trials, one of the first steps is to assess its safety, and that TR did suggest it's safe. And then the next steps are to assess the drug's tolerability and its impact on sperm count. And they announced that trial in the fall of last year, so it's in progress.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

I'm curious what the motivations for these scientists, many of whom were women, what was their motivation to Take on leading the development of these male contraceptives.

[Teresa Carey]

Yeah. To answer that question, I want to start by sharing with you what Dr. Stephanie Page said to me. And here it is.

[H]

I do this work because I am very interested in women continuing to have reproductive agency as a critical component of them being equal citizens in the world. I'm very committed to ensuring that people have reproductive choice. And the best prevention of some of the more controversial aspects of reproductive care is contraception.

[Teresa Carey]

One thing this made me realize when I was talking with Dr. Page is that we often talk about pregnancy, unplanned pregnancies, birth control as solely the female's burden. And so this method kind of flips that dynamic. So for the first time, men will have more control or contraception beyond condoms or permanent surgery. And that could lead to a more shared responsibility between partners and family planning. And ultimately, I think this challenges the assumption that it's solely on the female to control pregnancy planning and prevention. Male contraceptives, just the idea of them could push for cultural shifts towards shared responsibility in it. And I see that really as being about equity.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

In the efficacy studies ongoing, only the man in the relationship is taking the contraceptive. And you mentioned that the women have to stop theirs. Is that just for the sake of testing the efficacy, or is it thought in the future that, like, both partners would be taking their preferred contraceptive to, like, double up?

[Teresa Carey]

Well, I think, first of all, they're asking the females to stop taking birth control so that they can actually test if this gel is really working. I think the idea is that this gel in the future could be an option for couples to choose together. And if used correctly, the idea is that this could work as a standalone.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

What are the biggest obstacles preventing these contraceptives from reaching the market yet?

[Teresa Carey]

So one of the biggest challenges is regulatory approval. That's with any kind of drugs, though. The FDA has strict guidelines. But I also wondered about the issue of public perception and acceptance. So are males hesitant about using a pill or a gel? And what I found was that attitudes are shifting. So, first of all, males are voluntarily joining the study. They're using the gel.

[Katie Haffner]

They're.

[Teresa Carey]

But also there's a few studies that show a significant number of males would consider using male contraceptives, especially if they were reversible and low risk. And when I looked at one of those studies, IT surveyed over 15,000 men in seven countries, and half of them said they would try a new male contraceptive within the first year if it's available. And that's up from just 39% before Roe v. Wade was overturned. In a couple of those countries, that number jumps up to 76%. And then also between 50 to 85% of women depending on the country said that they would trust their male partners to use it responsibly.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

I'm skeptical about these, honestly. And it's because, of course, the person who enrolled is, like, interested. They enrolled in this type of study to begin with. Right. I want to hear about the person who isn't enrolling in this kind of study. And, like, I don't know, but I see why trust is discussed a lot.

[Teresa Carey]

Yeah. But then there's this other piece. Like, in a committed relationship, people are working together to decide when they want to have a child, if they want to have a child. And so if in those types of relationships, if the female is taking the pill, the male has to trust her to take it, you know, because they would both have that responsibility of perhaps raising a child together. So it's the same idea. The trust is just flipped.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

So interesting. I'm really interested in the behavioral aspect of this. I think, like, the psychology here and the willingness to take this kind of thing because it is such a cultural shift, I think is fascinating. So beyond partnerships, where let's say the woman can't take the oral contraceptive pill if it's only adding like a marginal percentage more effectiveness on top of already very effective birth control pills, it's unclear what the value add is.

[Teresa Carey]

I'm going to share with you one more thing that Dr. Page said to me.

[H]

The sort of short answer is more options are better. And it is absolutely true that women bear the burden of unplanned pregnancy, but if we can make a dent in the number of those, we will be helping women.

[Teresa Carey]

Equity is about having more options, but it isn't just about having more options. It's. It's about that shared responsibility. If having more tools for males means couples can choose together what works best for them. And while male contraceptive might not replace existing methods, it has the potential to contribute to contraceptive security overall. And if both partners have equal access to contraception, it can be a more balanced approach to family planning where the load is shared and decisions are made together.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

You know, I went. I came into this conversation pretty skeptical. And Teresa, honestly, you shared so many good points that have me changing my mind. And I love that. That's the best part about science. I think I was undervaluing this cultural mindset, this cultural shift, and how just significant that alone can be. And then plus added benefits of perhaps higher effectiveness preventing pregnancy. So thank you for bringing all this great information, changing my mind.

[Teresa Carey]

And you know what's interesting? It's still so early and the process is long, so it could keep evolving and we could be having this conversation a couple of years from now and.

[Narrator]

It could be totally different.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

I hope we do. Thank you. For Warner Bros. Discovery, Curiosity Weekly is produced by the team at Wheelhouse DNA. The senior producer and editorial correspondent is Teresa Carey. Our producer is Chiara Noni. Our audio engineer is Nick Kharisimi. And head of Production for Wheelhouse DNA is Cassie Berman. And I'm Dr. Samantha Youin. Thanks for listening. Ugh. Sex ed.

[Narrator]

But yeah, I didn't have sex ed.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

By the way, our sex ed teacher told us that when she teaches the boys class, they asked why, period. Blood is blue. Because that's what they see on TV.

[Narrator]

In the commercials where they don't want to show actual blood.

[Katie Haffner]

They pour blue liquid in here.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

So we all had a good laugh.

[Narrator]

And I totally understand that. It makes perfectly good sense.

[Dr. Samantha Ameen]

Bless them.

[Captain]

Race the rudders. Race the sails. Race the sails.

[Sales Representative]

Captain, an unidentified ship is approaching.

[Teresa Carey]

Over.

[Captain]

Roger. Wait. Is that an enterprise sales solution?

[Sales Representative]

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