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The Currently Reading Podcast
Season 7, Episode 17: Book Dealers + Raising Readers
00:59:24
On this episode of Currently Reading, Meredith and Kaytee are discussing: Bookish Moments: book buying sprees and being book pushers Current Reads: all the great, interesting, and/or terrible stuff we’ve been reading lately Deep Dive: how to...
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- [00:00]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Foreign hey readers, welcome to the Currently Reading podcast. We are bookish best friends who spend time every week talking about the books that we've read recently. And as you know, we won't shy away from strong opinions. You're going to need to get ready.
- [00:26]
Katie Cobb
We are light on the chit chat, heavy on the book talk, and our descriptions will always be spoiler free. Today we'll discuss our current reads, a bookish deep dive, and then we'll visit the fountain.
- [00:35]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
I'm Meredith Monday Schwartz, a mom of four and full time CEO living in Austin, Texas. And I love that books help me find so many points of connection.
- [00:44]
Katie Cobb
And I'm Katie Cobb, a homeschooling mom for living in Arizona. And I have been stress buying books like there's no Tomorrow. This is episode number 17 of season seven and we're so glad you're here.
- [00:54]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
There is nothing like a good stress.
- [00:59]
Katie Cobb
Buying session of anything that brings you joy. Really?
- [01:03]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Sure. Yeah. But books are my go to.
- [01:06]
Katie Cobb
Oh, for sure, for sure.
- [01:08]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
All right, we are going to get into that more. We also will tell you that our deep dive today is about raising readers. We got a question from one of our listeners about how to raise readers or how not to, which is kind of an interesting spin on it too. So we'll get into that later on. But first, let's get to our bookish moment of the week. Katie, did you have a bookish week this week?
- [01:34]
Katie Cobb
I actually did, Meredith, with a It's just so exciting for me because I've had a lot of bookish moments that are like reading hates me and I hate it back right now. But this week, not so much. I went on a spree and I am talking about a book buying spree like I mentioned in my bite size intro. But I also went on a reading spree this week. Not only did I finish four romances in three days. Wow. Yeah, that's embarrassing. I also bought 12 books in three days. Seven of them came from ThriftBooks, including two copies of our next book for popcorn in the pages, which is I remember you by Ursa Sigurdadotter.
- [02:12]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Ooh.
- [02:12]
Katie Cobb
Finally tackling that one good. I then bought five books from bookshop.org and also took advantage of a three for two sale on Amazon because sometimes a very inexpensive book showing up less than 12 hours later is exactly what the doctor ordered. And then in this case, it worked its magic. There's something really fun and special about a box or many boxes of books showing up at your doorstep. And in this case, the joy will Continue through the week ahead because I had, like, very fast shipping, little slower shipping, and then very slow shipping. So they're all kind of trickling in. And every time it's a little boost of oxytocin, it makes me very happy.
- [02:50]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yes. Sometimes there are weeks that just absolutely need that. And I think there are honestly a lot worse ways to deal with your stress.
- [02:58]
Katie Cobb
Right? Yes. As we know, there are many other things I could be addicted to that might be more detrimental to my health than reading in books.
- [03:06]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Exactly, exactly. And getting your mojo back in one. Like, really reading a ton of books back to back to back to back. That feels really good too.
- [03:15]
Katie Cobb
Yes. That's been huge. This is gonna come up later, I'm sure. But in October, I read 13 books, which is a perfectly respectable number, but it's very low for me right now. Timestamp, it's November 18th, and I've read 12 books this month already, so I'm well and above past whatever I've been the last few months in my reading, and that makes me very happy as well. Good.
- [03:37]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
I know you and I are both needing some. Some months. I was just doing my count today. I'm only at eight books for November. You know, 12 is what I aim for. Like, 12 keeps us in plenty of books. Right. With a little bit of extra cushion. So I think this will be a month that I get back to. To that number for sure. Which we know is more books than most people read in a month. We totally get that.
- [04:00]
Katie Cobb
Not a competition.
- [04:01]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Not a competition. Any number of books is good. It's just what feels normal to us and what, you know, works in our groove, so. Good. I'm glad about that. Well, I had a great bookish weekend this weekend. My niece Taylor came and visited. Taylor is my brother's daughter, and she is 16, lives in California. All of my family lives in California. She decided a few months ago that she wanted to come out and visit us, just her. And it was super fun. It was so fun to get that one on one time for four days. Really get to have those deep discussions and the really light discussions and just kind of live normal life for a few days. It was really enjoyable. What makes it bookish for me is that the reason that Taylor and I, even though she lives in California and I live in Austin, are close enough that she says, hey, Aunt Marimere, can I come visit you? Is because of books. It's because since she was really young, I've had the relationship with her that I had with my Aunt Susan. Where I am her pusher and her dealer. I will buy her any number of books that she wants. I am always here for book recommendations and book talk. So with teenagers, especially from a distance, that's a great way to be in contact with each other regularly without it feeling like, so how's school going? Which is like, nobody wants to talk like that. So we went to fabled yes, which was super fun. And we got a chance to have dinner at Magnolia Table, which is one of my favorite. I love Magnolia Table. It's one of my favorite restaurants. I'd never had dinner there. It was delicious. And we just got a chance to do lots of Austin things, and it was really, really fun. But that bookish connection is really what made the week possible.
- [05:47]
Katie Cobb
Oh, it's so great. And that plays really well into our deep dive.
- [05:51]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
It does, exactly. It absolutely does. So we will get to that a little bit later. But first, let's go into our current reads. What's your first book this week, Katie?
- [06:00]
Katie Cobb
Okay, Meredith, because my reading has been off, I have had to pull some quick wins off my shelf. So my first one this week is a graphic novel. It's called Us by Sarah Soler. This one was sent to me as a gift from a bookish friend. Her name's Erin Park. And there's actually a whole team that made it possible for me to get this graphic novel into my hands. Aaron is just the caboose of that train. This was written in Spanish by Sarah Soler and then translated by Sylvia Perea Labayan and illustrated by Johmet Gill. So, I mean, four people made it possible, plus the Amazon driver. All kinds of people made it possible for me to read this book, and it was perfect for the time I needed it.
- [06:38]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Wait, did you read it in Spanish?
- [06:40]
Katie Cobb
No, it was the translated version.
- [06:41]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
It was translated. Okay. Because I know that you could do.
- [06:43]
Katie Cobb
You could find the Spanish version.
- [06:46]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yeah. You could do that, right?
- [06:47]
Katie Cobb
Yes, I absolutely could.
- [06:49]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yeah.
- [06:49]
Katie Cobb
This graphic novel is a love story. It's the story of Sarah, the author, and her partner, Diana, focused mostly on how their relationship changed and evolved through Diana's transition from male to female. It's an autobiography, co memoir of their time together and especially the conversations and biases that they faced in their daily lives. So I really loved this story, as you can imagine, on a number of levels. There's a great exploration and explanation of demisexuality, which I hadn't seen often in other books. And that's when somebody can only be sexually attracted to somebody that they have an emotional connection with. So the physical part doesn't matter so much. That's known as demisexuality. And it also really explored the ways that transitioning and gendered nouns play out in Spanish. A lot of people at least have some exposure to Spanish, so they know that we have la mesa, which is a table, but it's also feminine. And when you have somebody transitioning genders in Spanish or wanting to be non binary, that adds a level of complication that you wouldn't expect in a language like ours. English, that's a lot more neutral, right? We have discussed this before and briefly alluded to it now, but I have a master's degree in Spanish and I completed my degree in 2009, so at the time there was not a widespread effort to attempt to tackle those gendered pronouns and nouns within the Spanish language. I also really love the way they discussed that when a partner or another loved one goes through a big change, it takes time for you to change your mental thinking as well. Sarah says within this book that sometimes she used Diana's dead name and hated herself for it. And I can attest to similar strong feels and hard things in my own life, not because of a lack of love or compassion, but because habits are worn deeply within our brains over years and changing them takes a concentrated effort, especially when you're referring to something that happened in the past when that person used different pronouns. That's hard to coordinate within your own brain. This book had some elements of one of the most banned books in the usa, which is Genderqueer by Maya Kobabi. And just like that one, my two older kids want anything to do with any graphic novel, so they did pick this one up as well. I'm good with my kids reading, whatever. I make sure we maintain an open dialogue conversation when questions come up. But for those parents who find that Genderqueer isn't a good fit for their own kids, usually by Sarah Soler, might be your best alternative. It's a gentler depiction of some similar talking points, although it does have the F word in it a couple times, so that's important to keep in mind for your own family. If it's an issue, it's got a glossary at the end of terms that might be new for kids or adults, and it's a great way to see not only a language style that's different from English, but be introduced to some new concepts. I loved this book. I'm so glad Erin physically pressed it into my hands by sending me a copy. Consider this the same gift to you reader Listener. An easy read graphic novel that will pull your eyes up and toward an experience that you may never have considered otherwise. This is Us by Sarah Soler.
- [09:48]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
What a great review that you did on the. I know we don't call them reviews. We need a different word. But you did a great job with that. That was. That was really, really helpful to know exactly what we would find there. And I've thought the same thing as I'm doing Duolingo in Spanish. I've been thinking this really does add a layer of complexity if the table. If the table has a gender.
- [10:09]
Katie Cobb
Right, right.
- [10:10]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
You know what I mean?
- [10:10]
Katie Cobb
Exactly. Yeah.
- [10:12]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
All right. My first book that I want to talk about is Faux by Ian Reid. Now this is Faux. F O E, like your enemy. Not foe, like fake. Okay, here's the setup. We're in a near future kind of America where space colonization has become a reality. And our lead characters are Junior and Henry, Henrietta or Hen. They live deliberately, like a very off the grid analog life. They live on an isolated farm in what we're assuming is the American Midwest. They don't really go anywhere off their property, off the grid, these two. Well, then out of the blue, this guy named Terrence shows up on their doorstep late one night with news that they were not expecting. He works for a company called Outermore, which is this huge global conglomerate that controls space travel. Terence tells them that Junior has been randomly selected for the Outermoor space program and will be required to leave Earth and Hen for a trip that will take years. But Terence insists, do not be worried. The government claims to have a solution to ensure that Henrietta won't be alone or upset during his absence. All right, I've now read two novels by Ian Reed. I read them very close together and I feel that I can definitely speak to the very specific experience experience that his novels, at least these two engender in both of these books. So he also wrote, I'm thinking of ending things. And then I pretty immediately read Faux. So in both of these books, the overarching sensation is that you're asking yourself inside your head what is happening. But where in other authors hands, that particular kind of readerly emotion kind of makes me crazy. In Ian Reid's hands, it is energizing and page turning. Now part of that, I think, is that his writing style is very straightforward and easy. You can just read the actual sentence level words really quickly. And these super, super short chapters that he writes really throw jet fuel on the speed of reading his books. Add to that the fact that at least These first two books are very short and you have these very crystallized reading experiences. I would say that both of these books I'm Thinking of Ending Things and Foe are best read in one sitting if you. That's not a Herculean task. I ended up reading them both in two settings each, and it was still a wonderful experience because Ian Reid specializes in throwing you off your game. He knows exactly how to drop in little hints here and there to keep the plot moving forward and give you enough to feel like you are gaining on the solution rather than you're just floating around in the ether. And I think that is the distinction. That is what makes him. His books really work for me. I will also say that I went into this book completely blind, not even knowing as much as I gave you for setup at the start. And I feel like, as with his other book, that is the best way to do it and that's why my setups are so sparse. And as with his other book, I did a buddy read of this one and that adds a ton to the reading experience. You are going to want to have someone to discuss this book with. So I liked both of his books very much. If I had to pick a winner, I would say I preferred I'm thinking of ending things, but that's a very, very, like, photo finish kind of closeness between the two. And the plot lines of the books are very different. So what it comes down to is your mood. Do you want kind of a weird mystery or do you want dystopian? Either way, they're very much worth the read. So if you like smart, well constructed, incredibly well thought out narratives, they're going to give you a quick win and a lot to talk about. Maybe for a book club, then. This is for you. This is Faux F O E by Ian Reid.
- [14:23]
Katie Cobb
Excellent. I am often excited by a dystopian tale, so that might be the one that I'm gonna have to choose from. Him.
- [14:31]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yes.
- [14:32]
Katie Cobb
Okay, Meredith, my next one is one that you've read and I know because you put it on my radar a long time ago. Okay, so this is the Wild Robot by Peter Brown.
- [14:42]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Oh, yeah. You really. You just read it?
- [14:44]
Katie Cobb
I just read it. There's a reason.
- [14:47]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Okay, got it.
- [14:48]
Katie Cobb
The film version of the Wild robot released on September 27th of this year. So just a few days later. Yes, later. I finally picked up the book, knowing I would be taking my kids to see the movie. They were adamant that I read it first. I was glad to oblige. The Wild Robot begins when a container Ship crashes due to a hurricane it was carrying a number of crates. It might be a typhoon depends on where the hurricane takes place. Right? It was carrying a number of crates for companion or helper robots and they wash up on shore, mostly smashed to smithereens. However, one survives the waves and the landing and is accidentally activated by a troop of curious otters. That's how we get to meet Roz Rozum When Roz opens her eyes, she's alone on this uninhabited island. She has no humans to give her directives, no one to give her purpose. But she's not actually alone. She's surrounded by living creatures, wild animals who call this tiny island their home. Using her learning functions, she's able to translate and then speak the language of the animals that surrounds her. But they are wary. This mechanical being is not like them. It doesn't sound like them or move like them. So it's probably dangerous. As she makes small overtures of helpfulness and friendship. Then little mammals and birds slowly start to accept her as a non threatening presence in their lives. But when the company that lost its shipments comes to reclaim its property, it puts all the inhabitants, machine and animal alike, in danger. This audiobook is relatively short, so I was able to easily listen to it in a single afternoon. The story captured me right from the beginning, and I believe the publisher blurb of Wall E meets Hatchet by Gary Paulsen is totally accurate. We've got the robots running around without humans, elements of Wall E and the wilderness survival of Hatchet. But I'd also add found family, and that is one I'm so fond of in my stories. My kids first read this one. See, I was listening when Meredith brought it to the show in episode 21 of season two, which is almost exactly five years ago. I got a copy for them immediately in print and on audio, and they've been enjoying it ever since and trying to get me to grab it. So I'm so glad that I finally did. Now, this isn't an episode of Popcorn in the Pages, but I will end this current read segment by telling you that the movie adaptation is stunning. It is beautifully animated, filled with a star studded cast, and while it doesn't exactly follow the plot of the novel, it's just as wonderful in its own way. It's got a 98% fresh rating on rotten Tomatoes from both critics and audience alike, and I recommend bringing tissues if you're an adult that's going to watch it. This is one of those kids movies and one of those kids books. Both in quotes that adults will absolutely love. I adored it. I loved Roz. I loved the animals we got to meet. I loved that the story was so full of life without any human involvement at all. This is the Wild Robot by Peter Brown.
- [17:48]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
That is one of my favorite middle grade books. It's on my forever middle grade shelf. I really love it. It's really special.
- [17:55]
Katie Cobb
Yes. And it's so fun to read it with. So Noah picked up the paper one after we went to see the movie, and he's been reading it as part of our Dear Time every week as part of our homeschool. And so it's fun for him to get to experience it the other way from what I did. Perfect.
- [18:11]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
All right. My next book is a book called Normal Rules Don't Apply. And this is by Kate Atkinson.
- [18:19]
Katie Cobb
Oh, yes.
- [18:19]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
So in this collection of 11 stories, we are taken into worlds that are. There's a theme here just slightly askew from our own. So we've got an unforgettable story that starts in a grocery store, and then something very, very weird happens. We've got a queen whose bargain goes terribly wrong. We've got an office worker who stumbles into something strange at work, and a man whose entire fortune hinges on whether or not a horse actually spoke to him. Everything we get here is quintessential Kate Atkinson, though she takes ordinary moments and turns them just a few degrees until everything feels both off kilter and in sharper focus. So this book was an unexpected little side quest in my reading. I say it was a side quest because I really almost tripped over reading this book first because I requested it from the library without really having any idea what it was, other than that it was by Kate Atkinson. I had no idea, for example, that it was short stories, and I didn't know what they were about. And also, I don't normally read short stories. So this was something different for me. First of all, anything written by Kate Atkinson is, for me, is going to be worth my time. This is an ingenious little collection of increasingly connected short stories. This is the element I'm realizing is the difference maker for me. So at first, the stories stand alone beautifully. The connections are very subtle. But as you get about halfway through, they. You start to really see that the ways. The ways that the stories are intertwining with each other. And by the time you get to the end of the book, you are gobsmacked. There's a story at the very beginning that feels really dystopian. Basically, the world kind of this is the one that starts in the grocery store. The world kind of blinks off and everything goes completely and absolutely dark for five minutes, and then it blinks on again. But there are and then that happens over and over again, and they realize that there's a pattern to when it's going to happen. But every time it does happen, anyone that's outside in anywhere in the world dies immediately. There's this other story about a queen who really wants to have a child, and so she goes and visits this witch in the forest, and that leads to all kinds of consequences that ripple out not just in this story, but in stories that follow. And there are a lot of fairy tale connections here, but also a lot of commentary on fairy tale tropes. And that combination is a catnip mixture for me. So each story brings something completely different to the fore, and each story highlights different things that I love about Kate Atkinson's writing. Her ability to quickly and expertly get to the heart of a character. Her ability to use allegory in a very interesting way. Her ability to insert mystery without making it all about just finding out what happened. All of these things are things that I love in her writing, whether it's in her Jackson Brody mystery series or her standalone novels like Shrines of Gaiety, which I just finished a couple of months ago. The other reason that this book will stand out in my mind is because of the time that I read it. I was having serious trouble paying attention for long periods of time during the week of the election, and these short stories were just the absolute perfect amount of intense storytelling. Just the right amount to get and keep my attention, but not so much that I found my mind wandering. It was overall felt like a little gift to me at exactly the right time, which is probably the reason that I unconsciously put it into my library reserve list. If we believe in bookish serendipity, this is Normal. Rules Don't Apply by Kate Atkinson an unexpected favorite of the year.
- [22:14]
Katie Cobb
Oh, I love that. And I love interconnected short stories. I haven't gotten to read one of those in a long time.
- [22:21]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I this is a major sweet spot in my reading and I am looking for more of those. So if, like, if you have a really expertly, like a collection that really expertly winds the stories together. DM me because I am. This is a sweet spot in my reading.
- [22:38]
Katie Cobb
Yeah. Makes me think of How High We Go in the Dark, which is one of my favorites of those.
- [22:42]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yes.
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Katie Cobb
By Sakura Nagamatsu.
- [22:43]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yes. For sure. Another great example not for every reader. This Normal rules don't apply is definitely not that emotionally intense as as that collection.
- [22:54]
Katie Cobb
Okay. Interesting. Yeah, I have to look for that one, I think. Okay. But I'm not going to be adding to your TBR because I actually have another Meredith book as my third one. Apparently I was on a roll I'm going to talk about Stone Blind by Natalie Haynes. This is another past read of Meredith's, but thankfully it took me less than two years to get this book that she brought to the show in episode 31 of season five. It made it to Meredith's top ten of the year that year. And whenever we've talked about it since, like in boss my TBR segments, etc. I've known that I needed to grab it for myself. Finally happened. And you'll be happy to know that I'm thrilled to finally get to talk about it.
- [23:33]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Good.
- [23:33]
Katie Cobb
I can see you like just waiting. Right, Right. What's gonna happen here?
- [23:37]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Right.
- [23:37]
Katie Cobb
Okay. Perfect. While it seems possible to get burnt out on Greek mythology retellings, it has not yet happened to this reader, and especially when we twist them on their heads. Focusing on the women of the story, I can't get enough. In this novel, Natalie Haynes tackles the story of Medusa, the sole mortal in a family of gods. Her sisters are Gorgons, immortal and untouchable, but she's half human. That means she starts her life as a baby and will grow and change over the years, going through puberty and middle age like a human would, which is weird for gods to witness. She has an urgency to her life that they will never understand because it has a time limit to it. Since the gods and many Greek myths live their lives without concern for humans, Medusa is eventually pulled into their game. A revenge plot between Athena and Poseidon leads to bigger changes in Medusa, the ones that give her snakes for hair and a gaze that kills separately. Perseus, a human, is sent on a quest for the head of a gorgon, and we all know how this story ends. Fucking Perseus, Stone Blind is everything we wish for from these retellings. It's feminine rage. It's taking the female side character that moves the action forward in a story about men and turning her into the center of the tale. Natalie Haynes, the author, narrates the audiobook herself, and while I'm not always up for a standard fiction author pulling up behind the microphone, in this case it was an excellent decision. I had also read or listened to her previous novel, A Thousand Ships, which is about Helen of Troy. I enjoyed that one, especially the narration. I gave it four stars, but this one absolutely edged it out in a big way. Unfortunately, her newest book, the Children of Jocasta, has a different narrator. It's not Natalie Haynes with her gorgeous British accent, bringing these stories to life. I'm sure Kristen Atherton is a lovely human, but I will miss Natalie's voice and her accent whenever I go to pick it up. Stoneblind might end up on my Top reads of the year, but like we've talked about, my reading has been bonker balls this year. So I have no idea what's going to be on my Top reads of the year this year. What is going to actually float up and sift its way to the top of the pile. But it was just as excellent as Meredith promised, and I found myself rooting for Medusa and furious with my own feminine rage at these pages, wanting them to fly by and wanting to savor them all at the same time. It was wonderfully done. This is Stone Blind by Natalie Haynes.
- [26:08]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
I'm so glad that you liked it. And this is really a book. I think it's great that you brought it right now because we've been getting lots of DMs from people saying, I'm feeling a really specific kind of feminine rage, and I just need to read a book that feels like it gets me and like the mood I'm in right now. And not only the Medusa character, but the whole narrator, the whole, like, narrative voice of Stoneblind gets it so deeply. And it's funny. It's so funny in its sharpness and its biting nature. It's. It's a fantastic book. I love that book. All right, Katie, I'm going to talk about the Gray Wolf.
- [26:48]
Katie Cobb
Oh, yes.
- [26:50]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
By Louise Pinney. Yes. So this is, of course, the 19th installment in my favorite series of all time. If you are new here, the Three Pines welcome. And the Three Pines series is my favorite of all time. I am passionate, like tattooing it on my body level of passion for the series. So, of course, I was waiting with great anticipation for the Gray Wolf. Here's the setup. So in the Gray Wolf, we're back in Three Pines, and very quickly, things start right out the gate. First paragraph with Arman Gamache, of course, our lead chief Inspector character. He's having breakfast with Ren Marie, and then he's getting a phone call and he's looking to see who it is, and he's not answering. And this happens over and over again. He is pointedly ignoring these Phone calls. So Louise Penny, of course, is setting up this tension from the get go. And if you know Gamache, you know that he is not. If he's avoiding something, there's a good reason. Something is bubbling under the surface and it's not good. So we've got some breadcrumbs. We've, we've got again, early on, a missing coat, an odd break in a mysterious note, and a list that makes no sense. We also, in the story, alongside Gamache, we have his loyal second in command, Jean Gui Beauvoir, and brainy inspector Isabelle Lacoste, one of my favorite characters. And all three of them are following threads that lead right back to Three Pines. But more than that, these threads and this problem stretch far beyond hinting at a danger that threatens everything. Okay, when I finished this book and I made my notes, I asked myself in my notes, why am I feeling so emotional as I finish this book? Because it's not that I loved this particular installment in the series, because unfortunately I did not. The Gray Wolf had a lot of expectation weighing down on it because it's the first book that we had had in two years. It's the first time that we had a two year wait. And I was really, really happy that Louise Penny, her own self, and with her weight and gravitas in the publishing industry, took that time. If anything, I think I've sensed that she herself might be a little bit tired of the treadmill that is coming out with a new book in the series every single year. Not that she doesn't have more ideas for it, but that she probably is just feeling a little bit tired of the schedule. Now that we have this book in hand, I feel that even more. Let me say right here at the top that of course, every one of the books in this series is probably 10 full times better than any other book that I could otherwise read. So I'm not at all saying that this book is not good or not worth your time. All of my thoughts are weighed down by the expectation of the quality of the rest of the series and the fact that this series has become such a touchstone in my reading life in general. It's bound to have my highest high highs and my lowest lows. So please take all that into context in what I'm saying about that here. But I've promised you all honesty, no matter which author I'm talking about. So I'm going to give you the rest of this very honest review. And I'm going to say that for me, the Gray Wolf was an exhausting read. I know a lot of people are going to complain about it for a lot of reasons. And the number one complaint, of course, is going to be that this book doesn't feel like a Three Pints book. Partly that's because it takes place very little in Three Pines. We are there, but we're really not. This is very much a global catastrophe kind of book. It's much more a spy novel than a Three Pines mystery. And that could be okay with me. I loved, for example, her book with Hillary Clinton, State of Terror. And if this had been more like that, I would have been all in. I don't need a cozy village mystery to love a Three Pines book. Don't get it. Twist twisted on that. But unfortunately, the way this story was told felt like a round peg trying to fit into a square hole. We get lots of Gamache in this book, and it shocks me to say that I feel like we got too much Gamache in this book. We are in his head so much here. There's so much exposition where he is trying to figure out codes and clues and riddles. And at some point I just wanted to be out of his head and in the real world and maybe trying to figure this whole thing out using forensic tools or his larger team. It was all so focused on Gamache and it was all so confusing and confused. But here we are not only not with the villagers of Three Pines, we are not with Ren Marie, and we are not even with Beauvoir and Lacoste, even though we are with them in the book. They seemed here for the first time in the series to be nothing more than set pieces. They're only there so that Gamache can have someone to play against. The plot just became so incredibly heavy that it threatened to topple under its own weight. And while I said we weren't really in Three Pines, the problem is we weren't really anywhere else either. We were rushing around across the globe, never anywhere for very long and never ever anywhere for a very good reason. In addition to how complex and convoluted the plot was, the single biggest failing of this book was that there were a lot of jumps from here to there in the plot without there being any stated reason. We were spending way too much time on half formed clues and theories and way too much time where those half formed clues and theories became Gamache's hunches. There were just so many times that I had a hard time going on the jump with him from here to there, from Theory to theory. In our other books, she does such a good job of developing these things and here it was just missing. So all in all, this was devoid of the character depth and the heart that we love about the series. It was devoid of three pines and the food and the community that we love about the series. And most of all, it was devoid of the heart and soul that not only that we love, but that we cling to in a world otherwise devoid of those things. And in the end, this book felt empty and sad to me. Of course, you know, I will keep reading. I am devoted to this series. I'm just filled with sadness and fear that this next book might be the last one. The 20th book, not, not the book I just finished. Not the Gray Wolf, but the next one which has already been announced and it already has a name and we already know that it will be a continuation of this book. Because this book for the first time ends on a cliffhanger. Maybe I'll be wrong. Maybe we'll get this two book arc and we'll go on to four more in the series that are just as wonderful. But I'm very afraid that I'm not going to be wrong. I hope that if it is this two book series that after that she returns to her roots and gives us something that we can hold on to. Into the void that will be a life without three pines. This, however, was the Gray Wolf by Louise Penny.
- [34:19]
Katie Cobb
Why do I want to cry?
- [34:21]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
I can tell you that I was sobbing when I finished this book. And not because of anything in the book happening that was making me like. It wasn't like because of what happened in the book. It was because I was like, just get you.
- [34:34]
Katie Cobb
Yeah.
- [34:35]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Please don't let this next book be like this and be the end. Because I just can't. I just can't stand the thought of us ending three pines like this. Like this. All over the place mess.
- [34:48]
Katie Cobb
This makes me so sad.
- [34:50]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
I know, I know. But I believe strongly in Louise Penny. I believe strongly in her ability to land the plane. And again, maybe this next book will not be the last one. Maybe number 20 won't be the last. Maybe I'm just being a nervous Nelly. Exactly. Maybe I'm just, you know, I have no knowledge at all. This is only like there are just things that make me feel like it could be. And this two book arc, I, you know, but you know, I don't know. So we shall see. But I got all up in my feels about it, Katie. I did.
- [35:24]
Katie Cobb
Yeah, well, you kind of put Me there too.
- [35:27]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
And still I will say the Gray Wolf is with all of that that I just said again, when you compare it book to any other book is still a fantastic work of fiction. So I really like, if people are really new to hearing me talk about the series or haven't listened to A Journey to Three Pines, my thoughts on it are going to feel strange because it sounds like I really ripped this book up. And yet here I am saying, but no, it was a really. I know that's confusing, but 19 books into the best series I've ever read. The feelings are confused, confusing, and the.
- [36:02]
Katie Cobb
Bar is different than like, let's see what you know, what's her butt is writing lately. Oh, that was fun. You know, like, that's totally different than something you've invested decades of your life into.
- [36:17]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Right. And waited, waited for two years for and you know, all of that. So there have been other books in the series that I, that I absolutely didn't love. And then the very next book was like, out of the ballpark hit. And again, there are a lot of people that have liked the Gray Wolf. So this is just my thoughts and experiences with it. I, I hope more than anything that everyone really loves every book in the series.
- [36:45]
Katie Cobb
Yeah, well, I think for many of us there are low points in the series and swing ups in like. And if that doesn't happen, then they're probably too rote anyway. Right? Because then it's just a formula and we just follow it and we just crank out another one and it's the next one in the name another author that produces a lot of books. I'm not going to throw anybody under the bus series, but that's not what Louise Penny does. And so we do ebb and flow with her through the years.
- [37:14]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Right. And even with this one, even with my conflicted feelings about it, there was no feeling like I never ever had the feeling of like, oh, she's just phoning this in, or she just doesn't care anymore. That was never a part of any of this. Which is why I say I have tremendous faith in her being able to land the plane whenever she does on this series, because I know it's really, really important to her. All right, so let's go on to something happier. Yes, our deep dive today is around the concept of raising readers or how not to. We got a question from listener Michael Westfall, who says, hi, Meredith and Katie, I am so excited at the prospect of you both taking up this topic as a deep dive, as the son of a reading mom and a school librarian and a teacher for 27 years. This is at the heart of who I am and what I do. Here's the topic. Getting kids to become readers. What did both of you do as moms to get your kids interested in books and reading? And how do you help them maintain that interest? What suggestions do you have for parents for how they can do the same for their kids? In addition, what are some things that you think parents should not do involving their kids reading? So this is a really good question, Michael. We're really, really glad that you asked it. And I think, Katie, both you and I would want to immediately kind of expand the topic a little bit. Yes, it's absolutely about raising readers. But as we talked about in my bookish moment of the week, and we've talked about countless times, this topic is bigger than just what parents can do with their kids. This is about what aunts and uncles can do to raise reading nieces and nephews and niblets. It's about what we can do when we have reading friends who kind of like, nibble a little bit and they're like, you can see that there's a. They're not reading right now, but we can see there's a little bit of interest. How do you slowly bring them along without, like, putting too much pressure and ruining it, you know? So this is. This is a bigger topic than just with parents. But certainly raising readers is something that's been important to the two of us.
- [39:29]
Katie Cobb
Right. And even Michael talking about being a school librarian and a teacher, like, there are so many readers around us that are kids and adults that sometimes need a little push. And I think the trick here is that when you are a big reader, it's hard to not be like, oh, you want to talk about books? And then just like, little diarrhea.
- [39:52]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yes.
- [39:52]
Katie Cobb
All over your poor victim and be like, oops, sorry.
- [39:56]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Right.
- [39:56]
Katie Cobb
Did you have anything else you wanted to talk about ever? Too bad, right?
- [40:00]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yeah. How do you have enough chill both with your kids and with. And I mean, to your point, Katie, I actually think that when I look back on my reading, my parents were probably really only ancillary to my passion for reading. It was my aunt and my grandmother and then later my teachers that were absolutely the ones who were pressing books in my hands that became so important to me. So no matter what your relationship is with kids, you could be that person.
- [40:32]
Katie Cobb
Right. As a young adult, I had some co workers that really influenced my desire to continue reading after college because a lot of us have, you Know, the desire dies in college, for sure. That's when you're being assigned everything. Yeah. And I also, I think it's important to acknowledge that it's a loaded topic and that it changes even if we just focus back in on our own kids. You know, five years ago, we did an episode where we had Jackson and Micah on and they could not wait to talk about what they were reading. And kids change and time marches on. And so sometimes it's worth revisiting something that we have talked about before. Raising little kids who read into big kids who read and how that changes too, no matter what you do. Right. So I think that's worth exploring as well.
- [41:19]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Right. So some of the just foundational things that we can kind of dispense with quickly that I think probably comes up for everybody when they think about this. Right. Like, okay, we raise readers first and foremost, I always say, by being a reader.
- [41:35]
Katie Cobb
Yes. Modeling.
- [41:36]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Modeling reading. Which doesn't just mean you say, I like to read. It means you read in front of your kids. It means they see you reading instead of playing with them. And it means that they see. You know, for me, it was always important to say, like, after, of course, we get time together, and you'd be all of that. But then to say, oh, mom is going to take 20 minutes with her book. Because this is. This is something that just brings me so much joy. And then I didn't go in the bathroom and take a bath with my book. Although that happened too. I plopped myself into a book in the same room and said, don't talk to me for 20 minutes. This book is like, totally taking my attention. And the message to my kids was this was something that was, like, really enjoyable for mom.
- [42:21]
Katie Cobb
Yeah, definitely. And I think it's important to expand on that also by saying that all reading is good reading. Right. So I love it that my kids love graphic novels. And that's part of why I read graphic novels, to make it clear that you can enjoy reading in a lot of formats. And sometimes they know. I had to tap my ear when they started talking to me because I'm in my audiobook and I want to hear what they have to say. But first I need to pause this story that I'm taking in in that way. Right. So making sure to validate and model all different kinds of reading. I did talk to a friend not long ago at a Bookish Friends meetup this past weekend who talked about how it took her a long time to get into Kindle books because she didn't Want her kids seeing her on a device all the time. But you and I, I know, treat our Kindles very differently than I'm just on a device. Right. I could be on Facebook. You don't know what I'm doing on this device. No, this is my Kindle. It has words on it, and I'm reading, and I might get totally sucked in and spend those 20 minutes with a device. But it's another way for me to take in this hobby that I really love. So I think making sure that modeling can include all the ways we like to read. Right. It doesn't have to be the high and mighty paper book, which we do all love. Of course, it can be any of those other formats as well, right?
- [43:46]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Absolutely. And I think that all reading is good reading. That is a really, really important foundational concept. Whatever it is that they want to read, like, not only be okay with it, but join them in it. Buddy reads are your friend. This podcast goes out to so many people who absolutely love to read. And the biggest tool that you have, the biggest superpower that you have to bring your kids along is to jump in and read a book side by side, whether that's one of the books that they're reading in class. There were lots of times that I did that with my kids, that I still do that with Jackson, because sometimes the books that they're reading in class are not ones that I think are the most page turning. And depending on, you know, sometimes I'll have a really great language arts teacher that is really good at bringing to life the text. And sometimes I'll have one that's drier. And, you know, in those years, I'll really try to pick up the pace with buddy reads so that we can talk about, okay, what are the things that can we can really take out of this story? And then, you know, also during the summer, Buddy reads of books that maybe are ones that you're choosing, but maybe they're ones that the kids are choosing. Jump in side by side with them. It's a great point of connection when you're both reading that book and. And you can have kind of not an inside joke, but like that point of connection that no one else in the family is sharing. It's a great way to establish that closeness.
- [45:11]
Katie Cobb
Yeah, it is. It's inside jokes, even, like, oh, remember the scene with the elephant? Right. Weird little giggles. Yes. Same with reading what they want to read and maybe even jumping in with them. Right. Which could look like, hey, we're gonna go see this movie. Do you guys want to all read this book beforehand, right? But letting them fall hard into something, even if it's not the thing you love. So that's like when I read Dungeons and Drama by Kirsty Boyce not long ago. YA romance. Dungeons and Dragons at the center. But I knew that the D and D part would be enough to get Micah interested in the book, and he did. He read it, and he really enjoyed it. He's now passed it on to his other little, like, triplet buddies, which makes me so happy because they like to play Dungeons and Dragons together. So I love that. And then I have a kiddo that I get to see pretty regularly on Sundays. And he always has a book with him, but it's almost always one of a series. And he told me recently that he has read that series 26 times. Yep. He loves that series so much. It's the tale of Stories by Chris Colford from Glee. Yeah, that one. I think it's Tale of Stories. And he just.
- [46:28]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Land of Stories.
- [46:29]
Katie Cobb
Land of Stories. Yeah, I feel like that's right. It definitely has stories in the title.
- [46:33]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yeah.
- [46:34]
Katie Cobb
He just loves it so much that when he finishes one, he goes right back into the next one. And it doesn't matter that he's not always getting the next new thing, because that's the book that he loves to read or that's the series that he loves to read. And he can dive into it over and over again, even if you're not a rereader. That's okay. My kids still read Wimpy kid. There's, like, 20 books in that series. They've read them all 50 times. It doesn't matter.
- [46:57]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yeah, Jackson doesn't. He's. Jackson's 13, and he's at a very low ebb with wanting to read for pleasure. He does not want to. Let's just call it. He does not want to read for pleasure. Period. End of story. And so the way that I'm dealing with that right now, and this is one of the things I wanted us to talk about when it comes to raising readers, is because years ago, like you said, we did the cutest little episode with baby Micah and baby Jackson.
- [47:24]
Katie Cobb
Oh, they were so little.
- [47:25]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
They were so little. They were absolutely adorable. They were both really into reading. They were telling each other about their books. It was so awesome. I do not have that experience of having a kid in my house now, a teenager, who's like, yes, can I please just shut myself in my room? Which is part of the reason why spending time with Taylor was So awesome. Because when I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, yeah, we might have like 30 minutes before our reservation for dinner. She's like, we have our Kindles. We're good. And I'm like, oh, sister friend. Oh, yes, right.
- [47:52]
Katie Cobb
Well, we are from the same planet.
- [47:54]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Exactly. Well, Jackson is not like that. And his older siblings were not like that in their teens either. They all grew up around me reading. They all grew up with me doing all of the good things. And in their teenage years, they just didn't like to read. And so it's. I think it's really important for people to hear a book podcaster say, yeah, I've done all the things and my kids do not like to read. Now, he will when he's really, really. I know that Jackson is very anxious when I do see him having picked up a wimpy kid book, because that is read for pure and absolute emotional support.
- [48:30]
Katie Cobb
Yeah.
- [48:31]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Body regulation. Like that. Like, I know we are really at a place if, if Jackson has picked up Diary of a Wimpy Kid. But even then, it's. It's really easy for me to go like, oh, Jackson, seriously, it doesn't matter. All reading is good reading because eventually, you know, all three of my older kids have come back to after college. They all eventually made their way back to reading. Now none of them read like I read right now in this season of their lives, but they all read regularly and voluntarily. And so it really, I really just want to encourage people to say that if you have kids, especially in that back half of the time that they're there with you and you feel like I somehow did something wrong or I didn't do the right things to raise a reader. Give it time. Just give it time.
- [49:21]
Katie Cobb
Yeah. Yeah, it is. It's a long road, right?
- [49:26]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
It's a long life.
- [49:27]
Katie Cobb
Very easily say that reading is not his favorite thing right now. We still make 20 minute windows throughout our school day. And he still loves being read too, which is one of the other things that I wanted to be sure to talk about in this episode, because it is really easy to be like, I raised readers. They're, you know, 8, 10, 12, 14, 16. They don't want to read right now. Reading aloud is different kind of magic. And last year I talked about doing an Advent read aloud, which was a little Finnish mystery that I read aloud to my kids. One chapter each day. 24 chapters in this book. And maybe that's the key for this year, is you pick something you can read one chapter a day for the time leading up to Christmas or whatever holiday you celebrate in December. Reading aloud is different and still encourages kids to seek stories or to find something outside of themselves to look at or outside of a phone screen. I also just finished the Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt last night, which I will bring as a current read eventually because it really messed with my brain in a lot of ways. But sometimes that's the whole goal of reading. Right? Put down that tiny world that you can hold in your hand and pick up a world that you hold in a different way. You hold it in your heart instead. Right? Social media is not the world and encouraging them. Even with five minutes at breakfast every morning, we are always going to set down our phones while we eat our cereal. You may have the cereal box to read or you may pick a book, but we're going to sit here silently and read during this five minutes. It deregulates their brain or it regulates their brain from that deregulation in a totally different way. So it's worth pursuing even when it feels like pulling teeth and even if it means I'm going to read aloud to you while you eat your Cheerios, that's okay too, Right? So I think that's really worth thinking about too.
- [51:26]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Excellent.
- [51:26]
Katie Cobb
I've got a quick little bullet here. How not to raise a reader. Make it a choreography. Tell them certain things don't count as reading. Make them feel like they aren't good at it or they're lacking in it somehow. Right? Make that the only thing that you can connect with them over. So we did talk about kind of meeting them where they are and reading the books that they're interested in. But maybe you also form those connection points somewhere else. That's also what we're talking about with regard to friends or people that you know through work, co workers who read. If you have another point of connection, the books might come as a side on that big dish of friendship. And I think that's really important too. So try out something else they love. Maybe you play the video game for a minute and then you say, now I'm going to go sit down and read and remind them that that's something you really love. And they'll be interested in that someday. Sitting next to you while you read. Because you sat next to them while they played their video game, right?
- [52:24]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Absolutely. Very, very good advice. No matter what you're doing. If you just share the other thing that I do. That actually has become weirdly something that Jackson kind of likes. I can tell. Even though he says that he doesn't I know that he does is whatever I'm reading. I will make a point of being like, oh, I'm reading this book right now. Here's the setup. And I'll, like, give him, like, a little, you know, and he's always like, you read the craziest things. Or like, that actually sounds kind of interesting. So it's not like I'm saying, here, go read this book, because he's not going to do that, but it is continually reminding him the kinds of books that are out there. And then I kind of keep him abreast. I'm like, oh, remember that book about the killer mermaids? I just finished it, and it got so gorgeous. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that kind of conversation, kind of keeping him abreast of how things are going. So that's also something that I've tried to do as well as, of course, making libraries and bookstores regular for pleasure Destination.
- [53:20]
Katie Cobb
Yes, definitely.
- [53:22]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
All right, Katie, let's go to the fountain. Are you ready?
- [53:25]
Katie Cobb
Totally. Always.
- [53:26]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
What's your fountain wish?
- [53:28]
Katie Cobb
Okay. This week, I'm gonna wish for each of us to let someone else pick our next read. And it might not be today, but sometime in the next little bit. This is something I've been trying off and on this year, which has been, you know, the year of broken reading for me. Tm tmtm. When I'm kind of floundering around, I like letting either my kids go to the TBR shelf and pick something for me, and then I do exactly what you're talking about, Meredith. I keep them abreast of what's happening in the book that they chose. They have a little bit of investment. Even if all they did was walk down and point at one. They didn't even read the title. They said, this is my favorite color. They want to know, what did I actually put in your hands. Right. It's even been working for me. And this is really weird to let the reins a little loose and allow my favorite buddy readers to choose for me. I recently mentioned on Love and Chili Peppers and at the beginning of this episode that I allowed Katie and Candice to boss my reading. The result was, as I mentioned, three books in two days. I just blasted through something that they said. Listen, Katie, we can see you're a little broken right now. This is it. Just go get it right now. We already held it at the library. You've got it on your phone. Just go get those books. It's gonna work. And maybe you've been avoiding a book for whatever reason. Or you finally picked something up that someone told you to read for no reason whatsoever and it becomes a huge hit for you. It just might be the kick in the reading pants, the spurs on your horse to follow my done and dusted metaphor all the way to the end, to death. It might be just what your reading life needs right now. So let somebody else try. Give them the reins. Ping, splash.
- [55:02]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
I love it. I think that is a really fun, a really fun thing to do. You know, every once in a while when I'm really in that mood, I will go to our bookish friends group, which of course you can be a part of with, with 27 other really great readers.
- [55:14]
Katie Cobb
2700.
- [55:15]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
27?
- [55:16]
Katie Cobb
Oh, did I say 27?
- [55:18]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Did I say 27? Oh, gosh. Well, even just 27 would be a whole lot of fun, but it's 2700. And every once in a while I will say, hey, tell me your best book you've read lately. The first one I own, I will read. The first one that you list that I own, I will read. And I've, I've had some good luck with that. It's fun to do. Okay, Katie, I'm actually going to recommend a book because we are getting to that period of time where people are thinking about holiday reads. As you let us know last week, I'm going to talk about a book that I really liked that it is, that's sort of murderful and holiday, which is not an easy pairing. I'm going to talk about a book called the Family Game by Katherine Stedman. Did you ever read this, Katie?
- [56:02]
Katie Cobb
No, but I do remember hearing this title.
- [56:06]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yes. And it's got a horrible cover. It's got, it's got a horrible cover. I hate covers with neon. It has a neon. It says the Family Game in neon. But ignore that. Please get it on your, your Kindle or your, your E reader because it's really, really good if you like this kind of thing. Basically, we're following, and I'm doing this from my memory, so we're following a successful woman. I think she's in her, like mid-20s and she is newly engaged. She's successful in her own career, but she's newly engaged to this really great guy who happens to be from an insanely rich family. Like an insanely rich old money family. And so this is their first year that they're engaged. So he says, I really want us to spend Christmas with my family. She's nervous, nervous, nervous. And then they get there and it's like succession at Christmas, like it's as bad as it could possibly be. These people are really pieces of work, every one of them. But they have this game that they call that they play every year and it's called the Christmas Demon. It features Krampus. It's got a lot of rules. And in this book, the Family Game, it gets be scary. This is the ultimate page turning Christmas read. If you're like, I just need to turn off my brain and I still kind of want to. I want to think about a family Christmas that's way worse than mine, this is going to be the book for you. I completely enjoyed it. Weirdly, it's one of those books that lives rent free in my head. I think about it all the time. It is the Family Game by Katherine Stedman.
- [57:37]
Katie Cobb
Just get it on your Kindle so you don't have to see the COVID.
- [57:39]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
The COVID is ugly. All right, those are our wishes and that is it for this week. As a reminder, here's where you can connect with us. You can find me, I'm Meredith, Meredith Monday Schwartz on Instagram.
- [57:52]
Katie Cobb
You can find me Katie at Notes on Bookmarks on Instagram. Our show is produced and edited every week by Megan Putovong Evans. You can find her on Instagram at most of Megansreads full show notes with.
- [58:03]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
The title of every book we mentioned in the episode and timestamps so you can zoom right to where we talked about it can be found in our show notes. You gotta check those out. And on our website@currentlyreadingpodcast.com you can also.
- [58:16]
Katie Cobb
Follow the show for delightful fun, especially on Mondays at currentlyreading podcast on Instagram or email us@currentlyreading podcastmail.com yes, our Instagram.
- [58:27]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Is really rocking and rolling at this point. I absolutely love it.
- [58:30]
Katie Cobb
I open it like a presentation.
- [58:31]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Yeah.
- [58:32]
Katie Cobb
What did Betsy make for us today?
- [58:34]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
I know she's doing such a good job. All right, if you want more of our content like we said, join us as a bookish friend on patreon. It's just $5 a month and you get a ton, a ton more content. You get community, you get all of the good stuff. And you can also rate and review us on Apple podcasts, but only if you love us and you can shout us out to your friends on social media. That makes a huge difference in our finding our perfect audience.
- [59:03]
Katie Cobb
Yes, bookish friends are the best friends and five star reviews are the best reviews. Thank you for helping us grow and get closer to our goals.
- [59:10]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
All right, until next week, may your coffee be hot.
- [59:12]
Katie Cobb
And your book be unput downable.
- [59:14]
Meredith Monday Schwartz
Happy reading, Katie.
- [59:16]
Katie Cobb
Happy reading, Meredith.