B (3:08)

It is so worth it. And just being surrounded by our favorite books. There is something measurably different in a room when we're surrounded, even if we don't pick them up. Like just having them there.

A (3:23)

Yeah. Yes. It feels like home. And I've always loved our house, but it really is feeling like home with those shelves up. So yeah, it's been just such a joy. What about you?

B (3:34)

Well, speaking of Billy bookshelves, they are very affordable. Magic. Because I talked a couple. A couple of years about the fact that I had decided that I was going to turn our dining room into a library where we allow food. Right. So that was two years ago. That's important to mention a. Because I turned an entire wall of our fairly large dining room. It's completely covered in floor to ceiling. Billy bookshelves. It was like $400. Yeah. To literally do. That's all I did. And then put books on it and it completely changed the room. So I have all of those book bookshelves and then my entire office is now a library because three of the four walls there are covered in bookshelves. So it's a lot of books. And over the course of two years, I filled those bookshelves, which when I first put them up, I thought, hmm, this is going to be something even for me. Turns out, no, not really. As I got home from my trip to London or my trip to the UK with, with Betsy, I was unpacking all of my books and realizing that not only did I have a bunch of books obviously shelved in my bookshelves, but I had begun piling books.

A (4:42)

Ah, yes, the piles. I know.

B (4:45)

Getting ready to shelve them. Yeah. And then just adding and adding and adding. And my poor husband is really almost never comments on things related to piles of books. But we finally got to a point when he saw me come home with so much from the uk, he was like, what's the plan here? Like in it? And he's like gesturing everywhere and it was like, you know what? I need to do a good old fashioned book, Cole, because in just the space of two years. And remember for those we have a lot of new listeners right now. But just to tell you, the majority of the books that I keep in my house, I have one shelf and it is or one row of shelves that is favorites. But the vast majority of the books in my house are tbr. So these are books that I have not read yet, but I've. I wanted to at one point or another. So even in the last two years I realized that there were a lot that I needed to let go because I just for one reason or another, I was no longer that reader. So I went through, I spent an entire weekend and I went through every book in my house and made a lot of large piles which Johnny took to some little free libraries and also to half price books. And I made some room on my shelves. But it is hard to let books go even if you know that you're not the reader for them at this point. Some of these were. Some of the ones that I especially decided to cull were ones that I had gotten. And then in the intervening time I've gotten a lot of feedback from a lot of people about that book and just realized it wasn't going to be for me. Sure, there's a lesson in there somewhere, Mary. And I fear it's a lesson I'm trying not to learn. But it's staring me in the face and it probably has something to do with waiting a beat before I buy a book.

A (6:39)

Or maybe not. You know, maybe that's not the lesson.

B (6:41)

I don't. I just, I'm not a fan. I'm not a fan of that particular lesson. But I did go through and do that hard work. I was very gentle and affectionate as I let the books go and I wish them to find the exact right readers. But it's just not all I felt. Not guilt, but like there's just like a little bit of sadness letting all those books go.

A (7:01)

Do you know what? I. Maybe I'm taking it too deep already. But do you know what this is reminding me of? Of this idea of like when you make choices your life, you are actively not choosing other things and mourning those doors that you close so that you can walk through others and I'm like having a little bit of an existential moment here listening to you talk about not being the reader that is for these books anymore and being like, oh my God, like I think I need to go through my now our other big shelf is down here in our second family room in the basement. And to go through that shelf and say like, am I still the reader for these books anymore? And that feels like a harder question to ask than you would think.

B (7:41)

Exactly. I did not expect the feelings that I was going to have because in inside every book that I shelf I do make a note. I put a post it and I make a note about when I got it and kind of where and you know. So yeah, you're right. I think we do have to make space. We do. We do have to make space. But some but there are trade offs for doing that. So. But it's gotta be done.

A (8:04)

I think the bookish therapy has begun already.

B (8:06)

It has.

A (8:07)

I think we've started.

B (8:08)

It has. Before we get there, let's do a little pause in between and let's talk about some current reads. So what's, what's your first current read?

A (8:18)

Excellent. Well, my first current read this week is the Executioners 3 by Susan Denard. If you are an astute Instagram friend of mine, you've probably already seen this one on my spoopy guide for 2025, but I loved it so much that I just had to bring it to The Big Show. Executioners 3 is an atmospheric YA mystery set in a town that could only be described as Stars Hollow meets Sleepy Hollow. Sometime in the 90s, when our main character Freddie accidentally gets a group of rival high school kids arrested, she gets welcomed into the fold of an elite prank squad. But as she and her friends escalate the pranks amidst the background of a quaint fall festival, mysterious deaths start to occur that the adults insist aren't suspicious. But Freddie isn't sold. Deeply woven into the history of the town is a thread of eerie folklore from the past that is begin play out again right in front of Freddie's eyes. And if she doesn't stop it, she and her friends may be its next victims. Usually Meredith. I have like a hit, a big standout. Like this is my fave of my fall reading each year and it was no question for this year that it was going to be this book. This one hits perfectly the notes of creepy, spine tingling atmosphere, paranormal folklore, kind of gritty small town crime all in one. But it is simultaneously also kind of Cozy. It's not cozy, but there are still the hints of Stars Hollow here. Like it's not entirely in any one genre, which I really loved. It's ya. So there is a little bit of angst, but by no means was it overwhelming to the plot. The characters were worthy of being rooted for and they were complex. The 90s vibes were perfection. We had non smart cell phones, video cameras, X files in sync, all contributed to the pitch perfect atmosphere throughout the book. This one absolutely reeks of foggy woods and chilly winds crumpled and spent leaves crackling underfoot as you listen for nefarious sounds in the forest. I just loved it so much and cannot wait to see what this author writes next. That was the Executioners 3 by Susan Denard.

B (10:20)

Okay, I don't know how this escaped me because I loved your Spoopy Guide. Several things. I was a teenager in the 90s, so I feel like I have to. I have to get one too. The COVID is gorgeous.

A (10:32)

It's stunning and it has really cool sprayed edges that say kind of in like a, like a foggy print, it says take heed. It's so good.

B (10:42)

Oh my gosh.

A (10:43)

I saw that.

B (10:43)

I was like, does that say take heed on these sprayed edges? Sure does. I. I think that is when I have to get. And I think I have to get it in hardback.

A (10:53)

You must. Yes.

B (10:54)

That's such a good one. I'm so glad you brought them. And has a 3.9 on Goodreads too.

A (10:58)

Okay.

B (10:58)

My first book, My Spoopy Friend, is not for you.

A (11:02)

Okay, noted.

B (11:05)

But I had to bring it this week, even though I normally wouldn't. Because if people are going to read it, they have to get it this week.

A (11:14)

Okay.

B (11:15)

There's no other time. You have to. You have to read it at a very specific time. And that's because this book is called 25 Days by Per Jacobson. Here's the setup. Our lead character is Adam Gray, who is desperate to save his fracturing family. His marriage is falling apart. His wife Beth has really pulled away from him. They've got two teenage daughters, Lord help us, Abby and Chloe. They are both both glued to their phones and the family just isn't like they're not talking. It's just. It's cringy awkward. So Adam decides to book a remote cabin on a snowy mountain for a last ditch holiday vacation, hoping that if they can just get away from everything, their family can reconnect. But on their first morning at the cabin, a Christmas stocking appears nailed to the barn door. Every day, a new gift appears inside that stocking. At first, the family thinks it's just a quirky holiday tradition from their host. But as the gifts become increasingly disturbing and sinister and bloody, they realize that they are trapped in a deadly game with someone or something that is watching their every move. Okay, this is a twisted secret Santa game. This is. Okay, this is an advent work of horror. Oh, it's called 25 days. You have. There is no, there is no other way to read this book. No way it's supposed to be read, which is you start on December 1st and you read one and one only chapter a day. They're date. The chapters are dated all the way through Christmas. Okay. I love this book. I. I really, really liked this book. And also, I'm just going to right out here tell you the writing here is not going to blow your mind. It's functional. It gets the job done. But that is not why you read this book. What makes 25 days such a ride is the experience of reading it. As I said, Jacobson structured this whole thing knowing that you would be consuming it only in these bite sized, very short pizzas are short chapters. And the daily anticipation is more than half of the fun. Every morning, at least. I why I buddy read this with Ellen Campbell and Alex Cox and we all really enjoyed it. The first thing in the morning, we would just gobble through our little Cheeto chapter. It's like the literal equivalent of like a podcast. Like a short little podcast that you get a little bit of and then you have to wait till the next one drops. So we wondered all day long, like, what fresh hell was this family gonna, gonna go through? This poor family. The buddy reading element really made it even better. We had so much gory fun texting each other about, like, what the heck is happening and how are we supposed to wait till tomorrow? We forced each other to wait because there were times where each of us were like, maybe I'll just go a little. No, you have to have the, the discipline and the tension that you get from the discipline is the best way. Now this does get gory. And there are also some animal deaths in this book. Don't believe that they were pets, but there are some animal deaths and the violence can feel excessive. There are some Goodreads reviews that talk about that and some people complain about the ending, which I really liked. I liked the ending a lot. But I do just want to say there are some people who, you know, didn't love it. And the writing is pedestrian at Best. But for me, the format elevated what otherwise would definitely have been a pretty standard cabin in the woods horror story into something genuinely fun and different. This was much more like an activity than a book. And so the bar was very different for me.

A (15:04)

Sure.

B (15:05)

But if you want to read this, as I said, I'm being so bossy right now, but you have to get it now and have it ready on December 1st. Don't wait until mid December and then catch up. Part of what makes it great is this one chapter a day rhythm. So let's just all decide that's what we're going to do. But if this kind of thing is of interest to you, you will have so much fun reading it. This is 25 days by per per. Per P E R Jacobson.

A (15:32)

You are 100% right that the content of this book is not for me. And also I am just, like, filled with delight to think about who that maybe delight's the wrong word here, but, like, who this is going to be for. And what a cool concept. And you're absolutely right. I can only imagine the only way to consume it is as your 25 days leading up. And I'm just maybe quickly going to go, you know, pop to my fountain wish and change it to could someone please create a book like this that isn't gory horror?

B (16:03)

Right. But make it spoopy.

A (16:05)

Make it. Make it just lightly scary or, you know, mysterious. That'll be my. I'm going to manifest that out into the world. Let's do this. Let's do more of this. Please give me Advent books.

B (16:17)

What I will say is that it so inspired me, Mary, that I, at the time that I was reading this, I was working on a project for Here Comes the Guide. I was working. I've mentioned it before, but I was working on a project called Marketing the Murder Barn, where I had this idea for this venue where murder took place, like in the early 20s, 1920.

A (16:35)

Okay.

B (16:36)

That was turned into a wedding venue. And for Here Comes the Guide. This is like wedding venue marketing education. But my idea was to write a story behind it about the murder in the 1920s that I called the Penrose Spiral. And I wrote it in because I was going to. I did a 10 module marketing. The murder barn is 10 marketing modules. That's the business course. But the idea is that every time you finished one of the modules, you could read another chapter in the Penrose Spiral mystery stories. And so, yeah, it was super, super fun. So I did a 10 chapter.

A (17:08)

That is amazing. That's cool.

B (17:11)

Yeah, so you might prefer that to. Because it's not super violent but it's more true crime. But it's about poor Lily Penrose who is a bride who's killed on her wedding day. Anyway, there you go.

A (17:23)

Marketing.

B (17:25)

Well, not in the Penrose spiral. That's just a true crime story.

A (17:29)

That is. I love that air quotes.

B (17:31)

But marketing. The Murder Barn is definitely available to you if you. If you would like that. What's your second book?

A (17:36)

My second book this week is the Academy by Ellen Hildebrand and Shelby Cunningham. So you know, if you caught a familiar name in that author duo, you are right. This was the first non nantucket book by summer fiction queen Ellen Hildebrand and her daughter Shelby Cunningham. Now I am no Ellen Hildebrand completist. I've read a few of her most recent books. They've been hit or miss for me, but this one was intriguing to me. I love a campus novel. I enjoy Some Rich People Behaving Badly. I was like, this sounds fun. So I gave it a try. Here is the setup. The Academy follows a year in the life of a mid tier boarding school, Tiffin Academy that just made a 17 point jump, unheard of, from spot number 19 to number two on America Today's boarding school ranking. This sends the entirety of the campus staff and students alike into a tizzy, setting the stage for a year of drama, secrets, dishy, rich people Behaving Badly. That looked like a really promising romp for a fall read, y'. All. I don't know if I had wildly different expectations or what, but this book essentially did not deliver on any of its promises to me with maybe the exception of the food descriptions and the atmosphere which were delightfully fleshed out. I think that is something that Ellen Hildebrand is very well known for. Right? Her atmosphere is great. Her food descriptions are very lush. You can tell that that is, I think where she shined in this book. But I found the pacing, I don't use this word, slightly atrocious. The first 300 pages were quite a drag that I really had to force myself through. And then we get a very, very rushed wrap up in the last quarter of the story. I wasn't expecting to love any of these characters, but so many of them, and honestly, mostly the adults made some truly awful choices that had me just furious at them as I was reading this story. It's clear to me now on the other end of this that this was meant to be a duology or a series or something like that, but I didn't know that going in, which I really think was a detriment to me, I maybe should have done more research there, but since I didn't know that going in for 400 plus page book, there were just too many threads introduced and never resolved for me. I did eventually get hooked enough by the story and I wanted to see where it would go and I found the atmosphere like I said and the food writing and all of that was really well done. A campus novel is always enjoyable in September for me, but this one hit below the bar that I think I had set for it on unfortunately quite a few levels. I'm truly TBD on whether or not I'm going to continue on in this series just to get my questions answered. Those kind of hanging loose threads I would love to know, but I really have got to think about if it feels worth it for me to pick this one back up. That was the Academy by Ellen Hildebrand and Shelby Cunningham.

B (20:20)

Oh, I am so sorry that that wasn't good. That sucks.

A (20:26)

I was really bummed and I think I'm an outlier. I have looked like the Goodreads reviews are at least a of my friends. I think it's under 4, but it's like maybe mid 3 or higher. And lots of my Goodreads friends really enjoyed it, but whether it was expectations or timing or what, it just was not a win for me and I was really bummed about that and I really was bothered by all those loose ends.

B (20:52)

Right, right. I do think that that expectation makes a difference when, you know, going into it. Like hey, it's gonna, you know, like that Nora Roberts Lost Bride trilogy, one that I just talked about the other day. Knowing that it was not going to complete, you know, finish up but that the other books were out was really helpful.

A (21:10)

So yeah, I think with going in with differing expectations may make this one hit much better for lots of folks. So I think maybe if that can be my gift to you. If this one's of interest, be prepared to not have resolution and just. Just take it for what it is. Right. Enjoy the vibes.

B (21:28)

Right? Exactly. Good to know. All right, Mary, My second one. Although the first one was definitely not for you and I had to bring it. My second one I'm bringing not for you. I am bringing it for my sweet because she needs this book.

A (21:43)

Okay.

B (21:44)

This is such a favorite and I just love everything about how I found it. Let me tell you. It is called Madame Pamplemousse and Her Incredible Edibles by Rupert Kingfisher. Have you ever heard of this?

A (21:57)

No, but I'm gonna go buy it right now. Okay.

B (21:59)

You're okay. Well, let me tell you about it, and you tell me what you think. This is middle grade, so I know a lot of you. Listen. We know that a lot of you don't like it when we talk about middle grade. We hear you. Please know that we really, percentage wise, we bring very little middle grade. But if you don't love it, just yourself.

A (22:22)

Forward.

B (22:23)

Okay. This is for. This is for Mary and her sweet daughter. So, Madame Pamplemouse and her incredible edibles. Here's the setup. In the heart of Paris, young Madeleine spends her summers trapped, washing dishes in her horrible Uncle Lard's restaurant, which is called the Squealing Pig, where the food is as revolting as the owner is greedy. Though she's actually a very talented cook herself, her jealous uncle keeps her hidden away in the kitchen. Kitchen. And makes her scrub pots and stay out of sight. But everything changes when Madeline stumbles upon a tiny, mysterious shop tucked away on a quiet Parisian street. It's called Madame Pamplemousse's Edibles, A place that smells of very ancient spices, where the shelves groan with jars containing the most extraordinary ingredients you can imagine, including pterodactyl bacon, great squid tentacle in jasmine scented jelly, and other delicacies that seem impossible. Well, when Uncle Lard discovers that one of Madame Pamplemousse's magical concoctions has the power to transform his very mediocre restaurant into the talk of all Paris, he hatches a plan to steal her recipes. And he'll use his niece as a spy to do it. Madeline forms an unlikely friendship with the enigmatic Madame Pamplemousse and her remarkable cat, Camembert. And she discovers that some secrets are meant to be protected, and that true culinary magic comes from something far more powerful than just a recipe. Okay, there are few things that I, and I confidently can say you, Mary, love more than discovering a secret shop in a hidden alleyway. And books that combine the wickedness of Roald Dahl with the warmth of a croissant fresh from a Parisian bakery. That's what this book is. I found this book in the France section of Daunt Books in London. This is the gorgeous store that, you know, divides itself up, at least in part, by country. I picked it up off the shelf and immediately took it downstairs where there were some chairs, sat down and said to Betsy, shop as long as you want. I am going to finish this book in one sitting. And I did. It's a short middle grade Novel. I read it from COVID to cover. I loved every delicious page of it. You know, I love a swing up story. The ones where the protagonist is really down on their luck and then they get lifted by extraordinary circumstances. And this one is so wonderful. The villain, Uncle Lard, is deliciously horrible. As I said, he treats Madeline abominably, as all good villains in middle grade should. And then she goes and makes friends with Madame Pamplemousse. And it's exquisitely satisfying. There's something really comforting about watching a child find an adult mentor who sees their worth when no one else in their life does. This book is beautifully illustrated with charming pen and ink drawings that add to that whimsical Parisian atmosphere. It's perfect as a read aloud. I paid attention to that, Mary, because I was thinking about you. And as I read it, I paid attention to how well would it work as a read aloud. The chapters are just the right length. There's enough weirdness to keep adults and kids engaged. It's like Julie and Julia meets Matilda with a little bit of magic thrown in. I immediately bought this one, even though I read it from COVID to cover because I wanted to own a copy. What's particularly lovely about this book is that while it's written for the 6 to 12 age range, it doesn't talk down to its readers or simplify its vocabulary. Kingfisher trusts his audience with words like comradeship and descriptions of meals that would make any foodie swoon. And the book also does something that I appreciate in middle grade fiction. It shows adults as potentially trustworthy allies rather than universally useless obstacles. There are moments when some adults in the story protect Madeleine when things get dangerous and send her to safety rather than expecting her as a child to solve everything herself. I liked that a lot. This is Madame Pamplemousse and Her Incredible Edibles by Rupert Kingfisher. And it is my gift specifically to your sweet girl, Meredith.

A (26:51)

It is not an exaggeration to say that I went to Blackwell's website while you were speaking and bought three copies. One for my daughter and one for each of my nieces for Christmas. We're all around the same age. That sounds perfect and everything. As you're talking about this, I'm like, this is going to work for my daughter in so many different ways. Who, you know, is like, working. She's finding her confidence and she's finding herself and her independence outside of us. But also still is 6 and still likes to, you know, like. It is important to me to build the alliance with her as the adult who is here to care for her and. Right. Keep her safe, but also give her room to explore the world on her own. So everything you're saying about this sounds perfect. And I am glad now to have ordered those copies before. I'm sure other parents and grownups of little ones go sell them out on Blackwell's.

B (27:46)

Right? Right. And I do. And I didn't look. I should have looked to see, because I did buy it in the uk. It is a series. I know that there's more. I believe that there's three at least that I could find in my. In my searches. But yeah, I loved it so much. I thought it was so wonderful.

A (28:00)

Lovely.

B (28:00)

All right. What's your third book?

A (28:02)

All right, Meredith. I saved the best for last today. My third book is Wild Reverence by Rebecca Ross. Born in the firelit domain of the underlings, Matilda is the youngest goddess of her clan, blessed only with humble messenger magic to transport the words of the gods between realms. The only one who can set foot in the skyward underling and mortal realms. As she grows amidst the violent and unpredictable worlds of the gods, something even more inexplicable begins to uncover itself to Mathilda. A mortal boy is dreaming of her, and suddenly she finds herself setting foot in his dreams and entwining the strands of their fates in ways that may never be able to come undone. As she traverses the realms and grows in her power, it becomes clear that Matilda may carry a secret that could both save the ones she's beginning to love and entirely undo the fabric of her immortality. Meredith this novel is a prequel to the Divine Rivals duology by Rebecca Ross. And while you don't need the context of Divine Rivals to enjoy this one, I am absolutely not. I cannot co sign on the choice to read it without that knowledge simply because this world is too good, the writing is too excellent, these characters are too incredible to not be able to experience the fullness of this book in. In the right context. If it's not already clear. Right. I adored this book. I read a review that mentioned this story, this prose read like Madeline Miller, which is both exactly right here and also the highest praise I think I could put upon this story. Even as I was writing the blurb, I was like, I can't. I just. I can't capture. I'm hearing myself saying it again and I'm like. I made it sound like a romantasy love story and that is not it at all. This is an epic fantasy. I so often find myself wanting to get Swept up in fantasy worlds the way that many other readers do in certain popular series that I will not name. But it just doesn't happen for me so frequently. But I am thrilled to report that this book captured me brain, body, mind, soul for an entire week as I savored this story. And I dragged it out because I simply did not want it to end. There is no possible way that, like I said, I could fully grasp the complexity of this story in my setup because it really is an epic unfolding. I read an interview with Rebecca Ross after finishing this novel that said that she went. She finished the entire book, sent it to her editor, got the all clear, and then went back and rewrote it from a different vantage point with a different setup to the story because she thought it could be even better. And that is the novel that we have in our hands today.

B (30:33)

Oh, wow.

A (30:34)

And this is like a nearly or just about 500 page book. This is not a small piece of fiction that she went through and completely overhauled. It clearly worked because the end result was truly a masterpiece. I loved this book with my whole heart and I think it cemented this trilogy duology with a prequel, whatever you want to call it, as an all time fave. In my mind. That was Wild Reverence by Rebecca Ross.

B (31:00)

Oh, I love it so much. And I tried Divine Rivals and that wasn't for me, but I know so many people love, love, love it so much. I love how she did a duology but then squeezed in one more book.

A (31:16)

Yes. And the thing that's really interesting here, and this is where I might almost break the rule, Meredith, of like, don't read the prequel without having read the duology that I think that if it ever, if you ever got a wild hair to try and pick this one up, it is different enough. Like in this world that she's created, I kind of see the Divine Rivals duology as being like 40s, 50s, kind of war era. Right. This is like in this world, this is like ancient Greece right to 40s and 50s, World War II. So it really is. She entirely flipped the world on its head. She took the mythology that we find in Divine Rivals and created the entire world of that mythology. And it really does read. I was. I loved Divine Rivals, that duology, but it reads so much more deeply than those two books. It really does. You can see her chops in this one, I think better than in Divine Rivals. And I loved those books, but this one is another level.

B (32:19)

Yeah, the Divine Rivals element. And I can't remember Katie would Remember? I can't remember if it was an APL choice, because I. I don't think I would have read it on my. But it was kind of like that. 40s, 50s. Like I say. I say, you know, like that. I. You know, it was like, here's the clack of the typewriters. And it just. It wasn't for me. Now, here's my question. Have you also read her River Enchanted?

A (32:40)

I tried to read River Enchanted a couple years ago, and I DNF'd, so I'm interested. I may try one more time just to see if it works differently for me. But that one I could not get into. This one hooked me entire. It's entirely different.

B (32:58)

Interesting. Yeah. Because a River Enchanted is the one that. That most people say, oh, Meredith, you should definitely read that one instead of the other ones. But I wonder if it's like, you know, Throne of Glass versus Acotar. You know, like, you. You usually love one, maybe not so much the other. So that's interesting. But. Oh, I love. And what a great job you did talking about that book.

A (33:17)

Thank you. What's your third book today, Meredith?

B (33:20)

That is an excellent question. I got so into Madame Pamplemous that I've forgotten. Oh, oh, oh. Here's another one, actually, that I think that you might really like. This one is coming out on December 2nd. So what is that, like a week, week and a half after this show airs? It's called Heir Apparent by Rebecca Armitage. Have you heard of this one?

A (33:37)

No, I don't think so. I gotta go look now.

B (33:40)

All right, we got a little royals here for you. So here's the setup. Our lead character is Lexi Villiers, and she has built the perfect life for herself in Tasmania. She's going to medical school, or she's in the second year of her medical residency. She lives on a farm with her two best friends, and she's just about to turn her friendship with the gorgeous Jack into something a little more like literally. They are coming in for a kiss when overhead, we hear a helicopter getting ready to land where they are in the middle of Tasmania. This is never good. We find out this is all back cover. We find out that her father and her older brother have been killed in a skiing accident. So they have come to scoop her up. The twist here is that Lexi's grandmother is the Queen of England, and Lexi's dad was the Prince of Wales. And Lexi's brother was the son of the Prince of Wales. The Prince. Iest Prince of Wales, whatever.

A (34:36)

That second day. Prince. Yep.

B (34:38)

There you go. And just like that, this Lexi goes from being just a woman who walked away from her royal life a couple of years ago like she wanted nothing to do with being the. It's like Harry, like, just was like, out, Peace, out. All of a sudden, she is next in line for the throne, so they come scoop her up. She has to return to London as Princess Alexandrina. She faces a skeptical public who have not forgiven her for leaving. And she has to navigate her grieving sister in law who has some secrets and deal with a scheming uncle who's a horrible character who wants the throne for himself. And her grandmother gives her one year to decide what she wants to do. That's our book. So if you are someone who loved the crown, who loves a good royal drama, and you want your fiction to have some actual emotional weight alongside with the glitz and glamour of the royal family, this is going to be a really good book for you. I picked this up on my plane ride home from London after hearing Jamie B. Golden on the podcast rave about it. And this book was perfect for a long flight home. It's. I'd call it frothy with a lot of substance. Like, it's frothy, but like, we've got stiff peaks on the froth. It's a meringue more than anything.

A (35:53)

I love that.

B (35:54)

And this is a sweet spot for me because we've got all the royal intrigue and the palace drama and the behind the tiara secrets, but underneath we've also got a really surprisingly thoughtful exploration of grief and what happens when you lose someone that maybe you were estranged from, but that you still love and then the weight of other people's expectations on you. What I loved most is that for the entire book, I had no idea what was actually going to happen. Rebecca Armitage in her debut outing, believe it or not, keeps you genuinely uncertain about which path Lexi is going to choose. That's not easy to do. Too often with these kinds of stories, I feel like you can. You can see what's coming. But here I was engaged the whole way through, and when I got to the ending, I loved it. It felt really earned and true to the character without being overly tidy. If you really love a well executed version of a story that you already feel like, you know that of the British family, this is going to deliver beautifully. The writing is smart and assured. Again, impressive for this debut novelist. Her background, Armitage's. Rebecca Armitage's background is as a journalist covering the royals. And so you see that coming into play. She understands the mechanics of palace life, the way that protocol works, and how the public and private Personas collide. But she also gets to the emotional truth of what it would be like to be in this situation. That Lexi finds herself in the comparison to the force of such beauty is bound to be made, at least by this reader, because I love the force of such beauty so much. So, let's talk about it. Both stories are about women forced into royal life, but this one was much less fraught and less literary than the force of such beauty. But if you loved American Royals but wanted it to be more grounded and adult, this will be the book for you. This is Heir Apparent by Rebecca Armitage. And again, it's out December 2nd.

A (37:54)

You absolutely sold me on that one, Meredith. That sounds.

B (37:57)

I think you'd.

A (37:58)

Right up my alley.

B (38:00)

Yeah, I think you'd like this one a lot. It's not, you know, it's not American Royals, because we're definitely at a more adult level here. Yeah, there's no sex in it. That's not what I mean.

A (38:10)

But that is a very. American Royals is ya, right? Like, it is very. It is ya. And I. I love American royals. I love American royals. Yeah. But it is nice to have royal fiction, too. I think sometimes when it is ya, it can be so very frothy, and I want something a little bit more. But like you said, it doesn't always have to go all the way literary. Like, it's just a nice little niche to fill that I think. Think I'm going to very much enjoy.

B (38:39)

Yeah. And I mean, like, I've always been obsessed with the British royal family, and I think a lot. A ridiculous amount about them as people. And this all just made me think about Harry the entire time. Like, what would have happened if this had happened to him. And so, yeah, fascinating.

A (38:55)

Love it. Well, I also put it in my cart from Blackwell's, so.

B (38:59)

All right. This is an expensive episode for you.

A (39:02)

Sure is.

B (39:05)

All right, let's talk about our deep dive. I had this idea, Mary, when we were getting ready to record together, and I, of course, I always love talking with you because so often I solve my. Like, we'll be talking about books, but, like, what happened in the. In the bookish moment of the week, some other element will come up for you that puts a light bulb above my head. So reading therapy is something I really love, as we know you are a therapist by trade. However, what we talk about here on the show is not going to be therapy or Advice that we're giving on any sort of medical level. Right. This is just fun discussion.

A (39:44)

Yes. Yeah, I'll give that quick disclaimer here that of course what I'm sharing today isn't therapy. It's not professional advice from me to you. We're going to be talking about the connections between reading and mental health. But this conversation is meant for that more general information and writing reflection only. But if you're looking for personal guidance or support, you know that I am always going to be on your team to encourage you to connect with a licensed therapist in your state.

B (40:07)

Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So we put out a call, we put the, the bat signal up in the bookish friends group and we got a lot of response.

A (40:18)

So many good ones.

B (40:19)

Right. So and, and of course we, I mean we could literally do this every week for the next like, like 100 weeks. But we had, we picked. You picked one. I picked one. So we're going to go over these. So we're going to read to you what the person said and then give you our thoughts on it. And I'm going to weigh in a little bit. But Mary, we will really rely on you for your expert guidance. Here's the first one that we got. Dear reading Therapists, I'm in the doldrums both professionally and in my reading life. On paper. I have everything I need to be fulfilled. I'm at the pinnacle of my career, rising to an executive level position in the male dominated renewable energy space in just five years. I'm traveling to new places I've never been. I consistently have a book in progress that always ends up being fine. I have so many blessings and am so grateful for the opportunities that life has given me. I recognize that I have a great deal of privilege. At the same time, I'm feeling more burnt out and lost than ever before. I work in an incredibly stressful environment and find myself completely cooked by the end of the day. So I find myself at a crossroads. Do I stay at a job I've excelled at but feel zero passion for anymore? Or do I push myself to see what else is possible? Where do I go from here? The noise of the world weighs heavily. Job market is suffering, my fellow humans are suffering, the climate is suffering, so on and so forth. I feel an immense amount of guilt for questioning these things too. My parents and generations before me sacrificed so much so that I could have these opportunities. Opportunities. I don't have any kids or a spouse. Tick tock. So I shouldn't feel burnt out. So often. Life reading is provided both intended and unintended guidance and inspiration. The Brene Browns of the world aren't igniting that spark in me right now. Can my reading be saved? And how do I find a book that will inspire and guide me in this season of life? Your Friend Burnt out in Boston. And Mary, this one was one that spoke to both of us as we read it because I think it's so emblematic not just of what this sweet, sweet bookish friend is feeling, but of what so many of us are feeling. And so I had a lot of feelings right at the top when I read this and I just had a couple of things that I wanted to say and then Mary, I'm going to turn it over to you to see what your thoughts were on it. But I first of all wanted to say that your melancholy feeling and any struggles that you're having around this are valid. And I understand that you understand your privilege. But then also these feelings are real and they really do affect you and your life. And so sometimes it's hard. Like I struggle with that too. Also, I think that the struggles that you're having probably have some very specific reasons behind them and I'll bet you can find out what they are. Now, Mary, this is where you might totally disagree with me. I think the first thing that this sweet bookish friend should do, it's not really a book recommendation, but I think that she should get a whole self reading from Gemini Wrongs.

A (43:18)

Yes, I just got mine.

B (43:19)

Oh, did you really?

A (43:20)

Uh huh. We could have another whole episode about that.

B (43:23)

I feel like we need to do a co video on that. Let's do it.

A (43:27)

Yeah, let's do it.

B (43:28)

So the first thing I would say is get ye to Gemini Wrongs on substack to Meg Teets and get a whole self reading. I have a feeling that there will be some things in your whole self that will be illuminated for you and I think that will really provide some clarity that you don't have right now. I know that was true for me. The next thing and this is a book recommendation book slash kind of online course. Danielle Laporte. Do you know Danielle laporte?

A (43:57)

It's sounding familiar but not very.

B (43:59)

She's a very interesting person who I followed for a long time. But she's at this interesting crossroads between kind of woo woo spiritual kind of stuff, but also business and career and goals and I find her to be so useful. And she does two different books courses. One is called the Firestarter Sessions and one is called Desire Map, both by Danielle laporte I highly recommend both of those. Those were ones that were incredibly impactful for me. I've done both of them. I really recommend those. And then I also want to recommend Ina Garten's memoir. I don't know why, but I just feel like that would be a good. Maybe just enjoyable, take your mind off things. Enneagram7 kind of view of life that might be just fun and interesting. So those are, those are my thoughts. What are your thoughts on Burnt out in Boston?

A (44:59)

I love that, Meredith, and I think that you're spot on with so much of what you're saying here. I love that the first thing you recommended was a whole self reading because a hundred percent I had a hard, a little bit of a hard time answering this one because I was like, you're not a therapist right now, Mary. You're not her therapist. You're not. Because I have so many clients who come to me to do this kind of work that I had to check myself because I spend a lot of time talking through this with people. And I think that this is something. I just hope that it heartens our burnt out in Boston friends and to hear a little bit that this is. There's not shame here in feeling this because you're so not alone. And it is really difficult that you're not alone in that because this is not easy. We shouldn't all be this burnt out. But this is right, I think a really common experience for a lot of people. And I think the thing that really hit me here is where I'm gonna put my therapist hat on for a second. One of my favorite therapeutic modalities kind of brings together these two pieces of radical acceptance, which if you're not familiar with radical accept. It's basically the concept of you don't have to like what you're accepting to just accept that this is what it is. So I'll use my quick little therapist metaphor that I tell clients to kind of sell radical acceptance to them, which is like, let's say you plan a driving trip to Minneapolis and I'm in the Midwest, so I'm going to be very Midwest in this. But you plan a driving trip to Minneapolis, you plan all these amazing things to do in Minneapolis and you're so excited about your trip to Minneapolis and you get on the road and you drive for eight hours and then all of a sudden you realize you're in Iowa and you're like, I'm in Iowa now. Do you spend your time bemoaning that you're not going to make it to your dinner reservation in Minneapolis and you're thinking about all the cool things that you were going to do in Minneapolis and you're so upset that you're not there and you just get stuck on the fact that you're not at this beautiful, fun Midwestern road trip that you planned in Minneapolis. You spend all your time so upset that you're not where you wanted to be. And I'm not saying that this is what our lovely reader wrote in and is experiencing, but. Or the other option is you say, okay, I'm in Iowa. I don't want to be in Iowa. No offense to our Iowans, but this isn't where I plan to be. What do I do? Am I going to get back on the road? Am I going to drive to Minneapolis and have the rest of my vacation just shorter term than I thought? Or am I going to scrap all those plans and put together a trip to Iowa on a whim? Right? Am I going to find a great restaurant to eat at tonight and fully build out this vacation within two seconds here? And that is radical acceptance of saying, I don't want to spend all of my time resisting against my circumstances. Because in the good friends of my beloved Sylvia Boorstein, right, that resistance is additional unnecessary suffering. So we can say like, okay, radical acceptance says I don't have to like it. I am just acknowledging that this is where I am. And then the other piece of this puzzle here is values alignment, right? So figuring out what is it that really matters to me and how do I deposit into those buckets first and foremost. And some of this, for our lovely reader, writer, listener may look like, okay, I have to work around. I have a half of a bucket that isn't taken up by work in my life right now. So if I'm going to put any energy into that bucket, it's going to be something that is really values aligned for me right now. So maybe it's not reading, I hate to have that be like the answer here, but it's okay if you're like, I got half a bucket that isn't taken up by how much energy I have to expend at work. And the thing that am I where my values align right now is community. I need to be with my people. And so I'm just gonna set reading aside for a minute and I'm gonna have values aligned action that puts me at the table with my people. And if I can only spend a half of a bucket's worth of energy on that I'm at least gonna spend my energy where it really matters to me right now. And maybe from there, that's like, how do we fill you back up a little bit? How do we get a little bit more gas in the tank? And then maybe. Maybe then you get to pick up a book. But I'm always going to be a proponent. And listen, this is harder advice for me to take than it is to give. Because when a book isn't working for me, after I had a recent miscarriage, after I lost Henry, after I lost my dad, I was like, I just want to read. Why can't I be reading? Why can't I enjoy my books? And so it's hard for me to take my own advice here to friends. But sometimes it just might not be that a book is gonna work for you. And instead of bemoaning why you're not in Minneapolis. Right. Can we say, like, okay, what am I gonna accept about where I'm at right now and where can I put my energy?

B (49:37)

There's a lot of great things about Iowa.

A (49:39)

There's a lot of. There could be a lot of great things about Iowa, you know. Now I'm gonna add this in here, too. Two books. I just said maybe it's not a book season, and that's okay. But first of all, I am always gonna recommend Tiny, Beautiful Things by Cheryl Strayed. I know she said the Brene Browns of the world aren't working, but I think Cheryl Strayed, especially in that book.

B (49:58)

It's very different.

A (49:59)

Is different. It is different. It is a. We're all down in the muck. Let's see if we can find the moon together. Right. The other one that I'm gonna recommend is Designing youg Life by Bill Burnett and Dave Evans. This is a book that was recommended to me when I was figuring out career changes. And do I think it's a perfect book? No. But I like the concepts from this one. In figuring out, like, what's working, what's not, what do I want my life to look like and feel like? And so those are the two that I'll throw in there.

B (50:28)

Excellent. Well. And I love that you were talking about values alignment, because that's exactly what the Firestarter Sessions and Desire Map do, is really help you figure out, like, what are my values? Like, what is really important to me. It's just a. Yeah. It's a very interesting way to do that. Okay.

A (50:45)

Yeah.

B (50:45)

Mary, why don't you go ahead and lead us into our next. Our second one.

A (50:50)

Okay. Our second Question today is from longtime bookish friend Jesse Weaver. Jesse writes, maybe this relates to most people, but with the crazy political landscape right now, I kind of feel dead inside. Books that I think will be huge hits have been just okay. Things come across as too sweet. Does Mary or Meredith have any advice onto how. On how to make my heart work again or books that might make me feel something?

B (51:14)

We got a lot of this.

A (51:15)

We got a lot of this. I grabbed Jesse's and I could have grabbed anybody's because I think this speaks to what a lot of people are feeling right now. We got this question a lot and I feel this. I feel this too. So this one I really, I'm coming at not just with the therapist brain, but with a human brain who is, who is really struggling with a lot of the same things. And something I found for myself in this season of life, in this time in the world is that I cannot hang with a book where everyone learns the lessons and we all come together through very minor, minor trials. FA la la la la. Everything's happy. And look, we solved all the problems of the world. Like anything that is saccharine in its resolution whatsoever makes me want to chuck it across the room. And that's not to say that I am not still hopeful and that I don't take very seriously what is within my control to affect in the world around me. But if a book sells me a solution in fiction that is too sweet, easy or saccharine, especially right now, I'm like, hell no. Get that away from me. And so I saw a little bit of that in Jesse's question and in a lot of our readers other questions. And you know, it got me thinking like what do I need to see in books that do work for me right now? I need to see someone struggle and persevere. I need to see a community that has fallen apart and works their butts off to come back together. You know, one book that I dusted off of my shelf as I was reflecting on this question is Reincarnation Blues by Michael Poor. Have you ever read this one, Meredith?

B (52:50)

I love this one. This is like one of those like it lives rent free in my brain books.

A (52:55)

Yes, I read it how long ago? And I think about it all the time. It is on my all time favorites shelf. It's a weird book, but it is so I haven't ever read anything else like it.

B (53:06)

There was times I just pressed it like a few weeks ago. I pressed it. Right.

A (53:10)

Okay. Yes, yes. This book here, I'll co sign your press and keep it at the top of people's search engine radars because it's just that good. And I. It really is a book for our time, right? The worst happens in this story. These stories. The darkest days come, everyone comes back together. That's what I want from a book. When faith in the world is lost. You know, I think a good skill to develop for all of us here is to know when to read. To lean into the pain, the mess, the humanity. And when to read, to escape. And honestly, I'm just less and less interested right now in the escape. I know early Covid I was like, I only want to escape. Like I don't want to be in this world. I'm going to read. I think Roxanna calls it mental mashed potatoes that lives rent free. In my head. There were times I really needed to escape. Right now I don't really want to escape from the hard. One of my long standing clients in therapy likes to joke with me that they've learned by now that the real work gets done when you follow the hardest things. The worst stuff, the things you're avoiding that you're actively wanting to resist. Meredith, I know you recently talked about that as well. Yeah, that's where the growth is, right? And so I'll like talk about like, hey, I caught you say this. That's where they're gonna. Where we're gonna go. And they'll all be like, ah, knew it. Right?

B (54:25)

Right.

A (54:25)

I don't wanna. But I knew that that's where we're gonna go. And so I wonder if this escape reading that we've leaned on in the past maybe isn't working for us right now. This is just my hypothesis because we want to see redemption from the absolute rock bottom reflected in our reading. I'm gonna make a wild analogy here, but I wonder if this escapist reading is beginning to feel a little bit like this. Like put on your rose colored glasses and hope that things are going to get better or like, like if we just wait it out, everything will write itself. And it's like, no, for a while.

B (54:55)

For a while we could do that. But now it's just, yeah, right.

A (54:59)

It's this like we are the ones we've been waiting for kind of a vibe. And I kind of feel like again, there's nothing wrong with escapist reading at all. Please, please don't hear me say that because there's. I got plenty of fluffy Christmas books on my TBR shelf this year, friends, but I just don't think that Perspective is working, at least in books for me anymore. Or right now, many of us are maybe feeling ready to get out of the frying pan into the fire and hope for a better world on the other side, regardless of where we land. Right. I think that it's just stressful. It's very stressful for a lot of us to be in the world, and perhaps we want to see that reflected in our reading. I am just going to be paying more attention for myself to how often I need to read, to step back, and when, alternatively, I need to read, to lean in. And I wonder if that's what we pay attention to here. You know, like, where are our books? A window. Where are they? A mirror. Where can we read for inspiration? Not just on inspiration, on joy. Because joy is important, too. Joy is resistance. Right. Like I said, I've got my fluffy books on my tbr. But also to say, like, where do I need to lean in? To be reminded that we can persevere through pain, that we can build something really beautiful from something that feels really hopeless. And so I want to offer that as well. And then I'm just going to throw one last little recommendation in here that I think books on community care are also a really good way. This concept of water the garden that's in front of you. Right. So books like the Serviceberry by Robin Wall Kimmerer. I'm reading right now, and that's like, really inspiring me to be like, okay, what can I do for the people in my neighborhood, for the people in my community? How can I be the one that I've been waiting for, for? And that's kind of where I'm landing on this. It's not to say that it is the answer, but I think this is my answer right now anyways. What about you, Meredith?

B (56:52)

I mean, I. I think you. You just couldn't be any more. Right. I think that's absolutely true for me. A book that really, really, really made me feel emotionally gathered and Inspired was Sharon McMahon's the Small and the Mighty.

A (57:06)

Yes.

B (57:07)

And that leans into. Doesn't leave. It's not escapist, but it also fills you with a sense of. And there's something we can do to water the garden that's in front of us. So that's that hope and redemption. The other thing is that for better or for worse, my escape is often, you know, from a world that I just find myself constantly saying, just make it make sense. Just make it make sense. And whenever I feel that way, I read Agatha Christie because there's something about a detective story or a police procedural that's short and the bad guy always gets caught.

A (57:40)

Makes sense.

B (57:41)

Just make it make sense. And so is that escape? Yes, but it's a specific kind of escape.

A (57:47)

Yeah. You know, I love naming that too. Of like, let's make it make sense. But really too. I do. I leaned really hard on the. That part of the know when to read to escape, but know when to read to lean in. I leaned hard on the lean in, but please also do know. I think what I'm proposing here is more so just like, let check in with yourself and see, do I need to lean in or do I need to escape? Am I trying to resist and avoid the hard feelings? But I know that it could be cathartic to go there. You know, we don't want to go to escape when what we really need is lean in, but it's totally okay to go to escape when you need to escape.

B (58:21)

Just consider it. Ask the question, is what you're saying.

A (58:23)

Ask the question. Exactly. Yes. Right.

B (58:25)

Well, that was some really good reading therapy. I think, again, we could. We could do this for a hundred episodes. There's. There's so I am so interested in talking about things like this.

A (58:36)

This is so fun.

B (58:37)

And you are such a great person to do it with, Mary. I so, so appreciate it. Let's make a couple wishes at the fountain.

A (58:44)

Okay. All right, Meredith. Well, my fountain wish is going to be a little bit of a professional plug and a tie in to today's topic. And of course, something that I have very strong feelings about, and that is therapy. And especially as it relates to. To bookish therapy here. Right. We all go through hard seasons. There are, of course, lots of ways to navigate those that aren't necessarily talk therapy do not have to be Right. But of course I'm biased. And I wonder, as I was prepping for this episode, I thought, I wonder if I can just gently encourage that if you find yourself unable to get into a book or back into reading for a really long period of time, or you notice that things are not as they usually feel in your life, maybe because of the check engine light of your reading life, it might not be a bad time to just reflect and see if you could use a little extra support. That can mean a whole host of different things. And like I said, I think there's plenty of times where we're just going to be slumpy and regular life is just getting in the way of reading. There are seasons of less reading that will pass, and that's okay. But I think as readers we can really rely on the vital sign of our reading life to tell us a lot about where we're at as a person. And so if you notice that, noticing that, that that warning light is going off, I can't get into a book I haven't been able to read for a very long time. Right.

B (59:55)

I can't concentrate. Nothing feels good.

A (59:58)

Right. That maybe we use that as an opportunity to just step back and check in and say, could I use a little more support here right now? So maybe it's in the form of therapy or maybe it's in the form of something else. But I'm always going to be here to cheerlead and champion and tell you that there's no shame in realizing that maybe what has kept you afloat for a long time has just stopped working. You just need some more skills, tools. You need to dig out the dusty corners and bring them out into the light and that's okay. And it's good and it's normal and it's encouraged to get some extra help and support when you really need it. Pink splash.

B (60:29)

I absolutely co sign on that wish. I have been doing more therapy in the last six months than I have in my entire life all put together and it has absolutely saved me, but it's also saved my marriage. So I absolutely great. It's life changing. So I'm so grateful for your take on that. I'm going to recommend something if. If what? If you do have a few hours of time and you liked the. The book that we talked about so many times on all things Murderful called All Her Fault by Andrea Mara. The series on Peacock is so flipping good. It's soapy, it's ridiculous in some certain ways. It's a little bit over the top. But it's eight incredibly bingeable episodes. And I'm just gonna say my wish is if you liked All Her Fault, the book, and so many of us did, this is the one about the mom who goes to pick up her 5 year old from a playdate and the person who answered, the woman who answers the door doesn't know the mom and doesn't know where the kid is that's never heard of the kid in her life. And we go from there. But everything's gonna be okay, moms. I told you that when I talked about the book and I will tell you that about the, the show. Everything's gonna be okay. But it is a wild ride that I stayed up until 2 in the morning watching this show. And I never do that.

A (61:47)

Love that. I know what I'm gonna binge this weekend. That sounds like fun.

B (61:51)

It's so, so, so good. I loved it. All right. That and some peacock. Okay, that is it for this week. As a reminder, here's where you can connect with us. You can find me, I'm Meredith at Meredith Monday Shorts on Instagram and Katie is is oates on bookmarks on Instagram.

A (62:06)

And you can find me @maryreadsandmakes on Instagram.

B (62:10)

Our show is produced and edited by Megan Puttivan Evans and she is at most of Megan's reads and she's a great follow. Full show notes with the title of every book we mentioned in the episode and timestamps. You can zoom right to where we talked about. It can be found in our show notes and on our website@currentlyreading podcast.com youm.

A (62:28)

Can also follow the show at Currently Reading Podcast on Instagram or email us at currentlyreading podcast podcastmail.com and if you.

B (62:36)

Want more of this kind of content, we have so much more. You can become a bookish friend for just $5 a month. You get a ton more content, you get a ton of community and you keep this show commercial free. You can also help us by rating and reviewing us on Apple podcasts. We so appreciate it when you guys take the time to do that and you can shout us out on social media. Every one of those things helps us to find our perfect audience.

A (62:59)

Bookish friends are truly the best friends. Thank you for helping us grow and continue to get closer to our goals. Goals.

B (63:05)

All right, until next week, may your.

A (63:07)

Coffee be hot and your book be unput downable.

B (63:10)

Happy reading, Mary.

A (63:12)

Happy reading, Meredith.