← Curse of: America’s Next Top Model
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Touchscreen Smart charging case for one touc instant EQ customization, True adaptive noise canceling and the one of a kind audio transmitter which can plug and play with everything from game consoles to in flight entertainment. What more could you want? First doesn't follow. Grab a pair@jbl.com Hey y', all, it's Bridget. Before we start this episode, I want to give you a heads up that this one will be all about ANTM's legacy of body shaming. We'll be playing old clips from ANTM that are hard to hear. We'll also be talking candidly about the experiences of body dysmorphia and disordered eating. So if you have a history or are currently struggling with those kinds of things, just be mindful with this one. All right, let's do it. I was starting to watch Top Model with my mom season one. I was turned off myself and I couldn't even remember that we did this because I've evolved even inside of Top Model over the years. Back in 2020, when new viewers were discovering Top Model while old ones were revisiting, Tyra Banks decided to take a walk down memory lane herself. And she was just as appalled as us. So season one, we had a weights and measures section of the show where the girls height were measured and weight was measured. It is normal in the modeling industry. That's what is done. So we were trying to be as realistic in the modeling industry. Not trying to embarrass anybody. It's just what done. So we're pulling back the curtain. Back in the day, nobody complained about it. But as we all evolve 20 years later, people are like, what the hell? Including me, including the creator of the show. I looked at it and I was like, it just made me sick. While it is interesting to see Tyra taking accountability for the rampant body shaming that happened on antm, she seems to have selective memory for one. The weigh ins continued until cycle four. Ms. J is here to take our measurements. It's really just kind of do weights and measures, see who is toned and who's considered fat. Who thinks she's fat. I gained 10 pounds, 138. Trust me, at the end of this I'll lose it. She is just a little bit bigger than the rest of us for the crime of being 5, 9 and 138 pounds. Brita was sent home in the first elimination of season four. At deliberation, Nigel Barker said she was carrying too much weight. Season after season A and TM picked apart and scrutinized every inch of their contestants bodies and weights. She's huge. She's not going to be a top Model. She needs to lose 5 to 10 pounds. They're all fat. It's one thing. What are you eating? Her body's just doing its own thing. It's all gone pear shaped is what you found out. Yeah, you gotta work on the thighs. Watch the diet next to us. If the body could just slim down £150, that would be good. Then she'd be £30. That would be better. America's Top Model is not a plus size model. I'm sorry. And that was just the tip of the iceberg. These days, Tyra Banks likes to declare that she was an early champion of body positivity. But she created and hosted a show that was one of the biggest body shaming offenders of our generation. Welcome to the curse of America's Next Top Model. I'm Bridget Armstrong. In the first seasons of antm, they weighed the contestants and shamed them for having the nerve to weigh more than £130. They cast women with eating disorders and told them they were too hippy, too flabby and too fat. They cast teenagers and 20 somethings who came to the show with confidence and left with body dysmorphia. ANTM brought on plus size models under the banner of inclusivity and changing the industry. Then they used those very models to prove that there was no place for them in that fatphobic industry. The show took one of the most toxic parts of the fashion world and amplified it for our entertainment. And as a result, they taught an entire generation of young women how to hate their bodies. So on this episode, we're going to dive into one of ANTM's biggest sins. @ its peak, America's Next Top model was drawing 7 million viewers per episode. And a large portion of that audience was young women between the ages of 18 and 35. And if you're like me, you probably started watching. In high school, we were bombarded with body shaming before we even knew what that meant. Before a lot of us even had a chance to develop a healthy self image. It's hard to really quantify the negative impact ANTM had on us, the viewers. But for the models on the show, it's really clear. And I was a little chubby. So I got a trainer and I lost 50 pounds. I wanted to start modeling and the market that I wanted to be in was high fashion. And I know I couldn't fit into the clothes that the designers would want if I was the size that I used to be. That's Ioanna House, the winner of cycle two. Before auditioning for ANTM, Ioanna lost 50 pounds. She did it because she wanted to be in an industry that didn't see plus size models as high fashion. You talked about her weight loss with the judges and other contestants on the first episode and she told me ANTM producers took that and ran with it. I'd always wanted to model, but my body wasn't in the form to model. I was a little nervous weighing in I lost some weight before I came. Joanna is very conscious of, like, her image. The issue with her losing all this weight, like she wasn't secure within her own skin. Here's Ioanna today. I shared something about myself, but I didn't know that it would be played all the time. Like, it felt like that was like a tagline or like it was a storyline that had to be constantly reiterated and repeated when it was just mentioned. And I felt like the show wouldn't let it go. Like every other episode, it would come up. ANTM made Joanna's weight loss the focus of her story. They wanted her to be the ugly duckling turned swan who didn't know how beautiful she was when she had conflict with other girls in the house. ANTM made it seem like she was insecure about her body or jealous of those girls, which Ioanna says wasn't true. I think they really tried to portray that maybe I wasn't confident and I was confident. I just got really uncomfortable constantly talking about it. It just seemed like it was like a broken record. That confidence didn't last long on an ANTM set. Ioanna, her face is fantastic, but, you know, her body could do with a little bit of Ioanna. Ioana certainly amazes me. She's got rolls of skin that hang over her jeans, and in this nude, I don't see it. She looks like she's got a butt, which is a miracle because quite frankly, I've never seen it before. My biggest problem is her body shape. I think I wouldn't want to see her in a swimsuit. It's kind of like a narcissistic relationship. They build you up, build you up and then they gaslight you. They turn it around and make you feel devalued and then they build you up again. So you're kind of like this yo yo of self esteem. You're like, I've finally gotten to where I needed to be. Now they're saying I'm not good enough. I never had an eating disorder. All of those challenges came after the show. Ioanna came into ATM with confidence about her body and she left with the Top Model title and an eating disorder to match. A lot of what the judges said about Ioana's body was done during deliberation. So she saw their comments about her on national television at the same time as millions of viewers. The photo that won Joanna the competition is her helmet shot. You've heard me mention it before. It's a close up on her face. She's wearing a helmet with all her hair pulled back, and she's looking straight into the camera. The judge has always had great things to say about her face, but when it came to her body, they were cruel. Even though she won the whole competition, she didn't feel like she was good enough. After Joanna left the show, she decided to prove that she was more than just a face. I remember watching the show and being so uncomfortable in a tank top, having it zoomed in. I'm like, okay, they're saying I look like a boy. Producers had a habit of zooming in on Joanna's body. They would edit those zoomed in shots while the judges were picking apart her body to really drive home the point. It was humiliating, so that kind of pushed me to also get breast implants. Ioanna became obsessed with fixing her body, making sure she was always the quote, unquote, perfect weight. After having a meal, she would choose to walk miles instead of taking the subway so she could earn the calories. She started spending more and more time at the gym. Every time she looked in the mirror, she saw a new flaw. She stressed over every morsel of food she ate. All classic signs of disordered eating and body dysmorphia. It just caused me so much self loathing. It actually created a body dysmorphia. I had a lot of struggle, so I'm going to get emotional. I had a lot of problems within myself in my mind that I created an anxiety disorder with exercise. I don't think I've really gotten over it until recently. In the last, I want to say seven to eight, 10 years. It took a really long time. It's the same thing Giselle Sampson from Cycle one went through. On episode two of this podcast, we talked about the body shaming she experienced. Giselle was 18 when she went on the show. She was a dancer and she liked her body. But when she watched her season of ANTM air live, she heard Tyra say she had a wide ass. I didn't even hear her say that to my face. I saw it on the show. So clearly I'm not good enough. Clearly I can't be a model. So how do I get rid of this white ass? Oh, maybe I should stop eating. And then when I eat too much in one setting because I get so hungry, I'll devour it in one plate. Oh, now I feel guilty. How about I go throw that up now? It took Ioanna more than a decade to heal from the body shaming she experienced on antm. Giselle still carries the scars to this day. I obsess over food. Either I'm binging it and I just eat whatever I want, like, and then I'm like, guilt ridden or I'm like, extreme fad dieting on, like, juicing or, you know, if I have a photo shoot coming up, I'll go like a whole month being like, completely, like, just juicing and eating an apple and like, severely working out to make me feel like I have control over the situation. The women on Cycle one got it really bad. Even Tyra admitted that. So, you know, it was bad. They were the first group who were weighed on camera, despite Tyra bragging about being size inclusive by casting a plus size model on the first season. What's the point of weighing us if we have people of all shapes and sizes? So, you know, that's like, already like, oh, my gosh, you know, what's wrong with how much I weigh? What's the need for this? And then you get into your head about that. I think ANTM wanted them to be in their heads about their bodies. I think they wanted to see the contestants stress about their weight. And there's no one who proves that more than Cycle Forest's Kenya Hill. During her time on antm, Kenya was rail thin, supermodel skinny. But inexplicably, her storyline on the show became about how she was gaining too much weight. When I'm under a lot of stress, I find a real comfort in eating Kenya. She feels like she's gaining some weight, but when the next bread tray comes around, she'll be the first one to grab a croissant or two off of it. Kenya said the stress of being in the competition and not having access to the right foods caused her to gain a few pounds. This photo is really beautiful, Kenya, but I hate to say it, they had to do a lot of bodywork on you and retouching at home. Pretty much. I try to, you know, eat right and we come here, my towels. Everything is thrown off. Stop. If you're sporting a gut, then you turn to the side and disguise it. Kenya, in the real world, you're a thin girl. But the fashion industry is so extreme and I would love to change the rules, but until that happens, I think it's all about choices. Kenya, you can get a burger and take the bread off. Tyra liked to position herself as the empathetic voice on the judging panel. And while her comments about Gisele on Cycle one proved she wasn't above the body shaming, Tyra usually wasn't the one directly insulting and shaming the contestants, that was reserved for Janice, Nigel, and sometimes Ms. J. But Tyra had her own way of making the contestants feel bad about their weights and bodies. In that clip, she dismisses Kenya's explanation, calls the fashion industry extreme, and then upholds the same extreme standards. Not to mention, she blames Kenya for eating the bread on a burger, and that was probably served to her on an antm set. Now, I want to be clear here. While the judges may have said Kenya was getting too big, it didn't translate to the camera. I remember watching this season and feeling like this weight gain storyline was a stretch. So did Kenya. I absolutely felt like it was coming from left field. It honestly was also, like, a bit of a mind fuck for me. Because my entire upbringing, I was made fun of for being slim. I was made fun of for being the skinny girl and never had hips, Never was like, a curvy, like any of that stuff. Then to go on the show and have people say, you're not skinny enough is a huge mindfuck. I just really felt like, well, what do I do now? And how am I now drastically gonna drop weight? Not to mention, I was, like, only 18, 19 years old. I didn't know what to do to all of a sudden be this super, even skinnier girl. That was really confusing for me. Kenya wasn't the only one confused. The judges actually had a disagreement about Kenya's weight with two guest judges during the trip to South Africa. She walks in and she looks like a top model. No, she looks pudgy. By African standards, she would be the skinniest girl alive. By African American standards, she'd be skinny, too. Kenya's weight was a constant topic of debate, and it was clear the producers wanted to see her stress out about that. They wanted her to be self conscious. It wasn't just the judges talking about her weight. The producers created opportunities to reinforce the idea that she was getting fat. There was a photo shoot where the models had to represent the seven deadly sins. They literally put the girls in a coffin in a grave in the cemetery for the shoot. Side note, you might remember one of the contestants had just gotten news of a friend's death right before the shoot, and they put her in a coffin, too. Just had to mention that. Anyway, Kenya's deadly sin was gluttony. They filled her coffin with food and put a donut in her hand. It was just like, gluttony. Like, ah, I'm greedy, I'm hungry, Kenya. It just came off looking a little campy as opposed to Fashiony, don't hold your tummy like you're pregnant. In South Africa, they did a photo shoot where the models were dressed up as animals. Kenya was given the elephant. Everybody else has these sexy little animals. I get to be the big fat elephant. Why do I keep getting stuck with these fat, like, characters? What is going on? Just for the record, that was ANTM's music choice, not ours. Kenya was eliminated right before the finale Runway. When the judges were deciding who to send home, Janis brought up Kenya's weight again. I asked Kenya what it was like when she got home and watched her season finally air. When I see Tyra and the crew people and the behind the scenes, the producers and all these people who are, like, smiling in your face and like, making it seem like they're your friend. And then when I watch the edits back with the. With the rest of the world, like, when I was in South Africa and we were walking on the beach, they were, like, zooming in on my belly on the beach. I felt betrayed because it's like y' all people made it seem like y' all were my friend. Now you're fat. Shaming me on TV with the entire world to CE. Kenya was 19 when she was on ANTM. But the experience of being made fun of and told she was fat had a profound effect on her. She is still self conscious to this day. For a period of time, I felt really uncomfortable eating in public because God forbid anybody in this public setting watched me on TV and they believed what was portrayed on the show. And now they're watching me and judging me eat. And so that has actually been a struggle. Even still to this day, like, I am mindful of, is there anybody, like, watching me eat right now? It's really messed up. But when you're at such a young age and that happens to you, like, what else do you expect to happen? In the 20 years since the show aired, Kenya says she's had women come up to her and tell her that the body shaming she experienced impacted them too. There are so many women that watched me go through what I went through and develop their own negative relationship with their bodies from watching that. Kenya told me after she left the show, she lost the few pounds she'd gained on the show and then some. But she was told she was still not skinny enough by agencies. So there was some truth in what Tyra was saying about the fashion industry's extreme standards. But on a show that took great liberties with reality when it came to photo shoots, runways, and even awarding the best models. Why did they choose body shaming as the true representation to cling to? It was a decision that planted the seeds of dysmorphia and disordered eating in their contestants. But there were contestants who were cast on ANTM who were already battling eating disorders, and ANTM exploited their health for a storyline. We'll get into that after the break. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech@lenovo.com Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech Search power up@lenovo.com Spin Quest Social Casino It's Thanksgiving time. 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Sofas start at just $699 and right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply. Okay, we're both getting the penne vodka. You don't know the soup of the day. Can I get a diet coat? Thank you, sir. Are you not eating anything? Cassie sofa. Are you not eating anything? Cassie just wouldn't eat very much at dinner. On Cycle three, a contestant named Cassie Grisham was suspected of having an eating disorder by the other girls. It was a storyline A&TM had explored before with Elise on cycle one. Like Alce, Cassie didn't seem to eat much and the other contestants started to notice her frequent trips to the bathroom. Except unlike Alece, Cassie pretty much admitted to having a problem. If I didn't want to be a model, I would eat whatever I wanted to and not worry about it. Later that episode, during a photo shoot, Cassie confided in a fellow contestant named Amanda. She confirmed that she was indeed battling an eating disorder. Don't go in there. I feel very sick in my stomach. Smells like puke. Cassia informed Amanda that she was bulimic. Amanda told somebody and next thing you know, everybody knows. Of course, Amanda told another contestant and the word spread. By mid episode, all the girls knew Cassie had bulimia. It became a major topic of discussion at the photo shoot. It's a disorder, so it's not fine. Really. It's gonna eat her life. And she's like, that's such a huge secret. You know, like anyone who does that must feel like horrible inside. A bunch of girls got mad at Amanda for spilling Cassie's secret. Amanda is a complete ass for telling Cassie's secret. She plays this role that she's inspired, sweet, nurturing mother. If someone decides to confide in you, why don't you let that be between you and that person? Let me just say, even if Amanda did it to gossip, she did the right thing by telling someone else. Eating disorders are dangerous. They can kill you by telling the other girls. It put Cassie's eating disorder on the producer's radar. Three episodes later, wake up. Tyra made a surprise visit to the House and brought two guests. A plus size model named Kate Dillon and a nutritionist. All right, so today I'm gonna be talking about the modeling industry in terms of eating, body image, and the pressures to have to fit into a certain mold. I have a friend of mine. Her name is Kate Dillon. Kate and I used to model in Los Angeles and in Paris, and she's one of the top plus size models in the industry. Kate Dillon started out as a straight size model. She was there that day to talk about eating disorders, something she had experience with. In order to be a skinny model, you have to be skinny. And for me, it was really, really difficult. I actually had an eating disorder. I'd go days without eating or just maybe eating, you know, an apple or something like that. And I couldn't stay in the business as I was. I was unhealthy, I was miserable, and I ended up quitting the business. I gained like 50 pounds and ended up returning that as a plus size model. This might not be the right career for any of you. If it's not the right career for you, don't try to manipulate yourself at any cost to fit into it. After Kate spoke about her experience, the nutritionist talked to the contestants about healthy eating. For over 15 years, I've been working with models, helping them to manage their weight. It's all about balancing moderation and consistency. When the talk was over, Cassie asked to speak with Tyra, Kate, and the nutritionist alone. If I want to be a model, I feel like I should be skinny. Cassie wasn't in the competition as a plus size model, and she made it clear she wasn't interested in pursuing that. Cassie was already thin, but she was willing to go to extreme lengths to be skinnier. Do you ever feel that it gets out of control and then you do a whole guilt head trip on yourself? I have had several times where I've thrown up in the past, but I never considered myself bulimic because I didn't throw up after every meal. And I would just do it at night if I thought I ate too much and I shouldn't go to bed with it in my stomach. I get nervous when I hear that you've thrown up. Did you ever talk to anybody about that? Mm. Mm. Maybe we should explore having you talk to somebody only because it could really spiral out of control. Especially in this environment with the pressure and the critique. It sounds to me like it was already out of control. Cassie believed she was beyond help. I don't feel like I can talk to someone and they Will know how I feel. You can tell me. I shouldn't do that all you want, but if I feel like I'm still gonna do it, I'm never gonna be helped. After the chat, all the girls were called back in for a healthy lunch. Salad, fruit and grilled chicken. Cassie skipped lunch to call her boyfriend. Cj. What's up? I think they want me to go to a counselor. Why? For you know what they know. Mm. How I had to tell em. If I'm feeling that I'm happy and I'm doing fine and this is making me happy by doing this, then that's all that matters to me. Cassie saying you know what to her boyfriend seemed to confirm that her eating disorder was an open secret in her life. Although Cassie said it was making her happy, everyone, including the contestants and the judges, could tell she was miserable. Cassie didn't seem to have the language for it yet, but she was in crisis. And her telling Amanda and then asking for a one on one with Tyra, Kate Dillon and the nutritionist was a cry for help. Antm answered that cry with body shaming. Cassie wasn't sent to a trained professional for help. She was sent on some go sees. On the following episode, the models spent the day going to castings where they met with designers, tried on clothes, and showed off their Runway walks. More than one designer said something negative about Cassie's body, but designer Marc Bauer was particularly cruel. I think that your thighs are a little big for this dress. I'm going to have you walk in it with the zipper open. I think the biggest concern with Cassie for me was the size of her hips. I just want to measure your thighs just to see where we're at. Normally we like about no more than 35. I think I'm right at that. We're at 39. Okay. I prefer a smaller hip. This is so hard to listen to. Knowing that Cassie was battling an eating disorder. On that episode, Cassie was eliminated. She wasn't sent home because she needed to get help. Or at least that's not the reason the judges gave. Cassie was sent home because the judges questioned if she wanted to be in the competition. They said she didn't have any life behind her eyes. In her photos. It's probably kind of hard to look alive when you're starving. Cassie admitted to having an eating disorder an entire four weeks before she was eliminated. The moment she told Amanda should have been the signal to producers to take a break from their regular format. It was time for a very special episode. Cassie's struggle was an opportunity for ANTM to send the message that eating disorders, no matter how prevalent they are in the modeling industry, are not okay. They should have sent Cassie home right away to get some real help for me. Cassie's storyline is even more disturbing. Knowing that ANTM did extensive psyche vows on all the contestants. ANTM producers more than likely knew about Cassie's bulimia before they cast her. It's possible they brought her onto the show just so they could exploit her for an eating disorder storyline. Cassie's eating disorder wasn't just dangerous for her. It was dangerous for the young women watching at home. Michelle Konstantinofsky is a journalist who's written about body image. I had an eating disorder. I have dealt with it probably more than half my life. That's why so much of my work is informed by that and around that and why I'm so passionate about it. Michelle is actually writing a book about antm. She was in college when Cycle three aired and she remembers Cassie's story vividly. The Cassie storyline that haunts me, like, and watching it back, it was so sad. The show did her such a disservice. She's basically screaming out for help in the only way she knows how. She's telling them, I throw up, but I don't have an eating soda. I don't eat much, but I don't have an eating disorder. And they're all sitting there listening to her and looking really concerned. And then they bring in the nutritionist and she's kind of saying like, we'll just make healthy choices. And then she like gives all the models like fruit salad. And it's like, well, that's not going to fix the issues that are festering deep within Cassie. She's being met with all these concerned looks, but at the same time she's being sent on go sees where Mark Bauer is measuring her thighs and telling her how unacceptably large they are. Michelle said when she rewatched that scene of Cassie with Mark Bauer years later, she was disturbed to discover that she remembered every line. The second that scene came on, I was like, oh my God. That is etched in my memory. Like I knew the next word he was gonna say. Like, I saw that how many years ago. And that scene is so horrifying that it lives rent free somewhere in my brain. Looking back on it, it's hard not to yell at the TV and be like, get her help and put a giant disclaimer on this show that you are only reinforcing the problem by keeping her here. How do you think Cassie felt when she was back at home and watched the episode air alongside the rest of the country. ANTM producers may have thought they were shedding light on an issue that affects a lot of models by keeping Cassie on the show. But they also sent her on a go see with a designer who insulted her, and producers chose to air that comment before eliminating Cassie. There's so many mixed messages, so many conflicting, contradictory things going on. But at the end of the day, it all comes down to being a woman and a body is horrific. It's just, there's just no winning in it at all. That message that women can't win because there's always something wrong with our bodies, something to nitpick, something to fix, wasn't a message ANTM invented. It was in the larger culture. Tyra came up as a model in the heroin chic era of the 90s. At the time, anything over a size 2 was seen as too fat for the Runway and Tyra internalized those messages. By the time she created antm, that thinking wasn't just in the fashion world. It had spilled over to pop culture. The early 2000s was brutal on women's bodies. Here's Perez Hilton just kidding. He was actually a big part of the problem. Even after she took a step back from modeling, Tyra Banks herself was the target of fat shaming. By 2007, she was hosting ANTM and her own talk show. She didn't have to stress about her weight as much in the impossible standards of the modeling industry. Around that time, a paparazzi photo of Tyra at the beach in a brown one piece swimsuit surfaced. At the time, Tyra was about a size 8 or 10. But that photo made its way to all the tabloids with some really hurtful headlines like Fat Tyra and America's Next Top Waddle. Tyra addressed the body shaming head on in a segment on her talk show. She wore the same swimsuit she was wearing in the paparazzi photo. I have something to say to all of you that have something nasty to say about me or other women that are built like me. Kiss my fat ass. Tyra said she created ATM to celebrate women's bodies to empower women and let them know that all shapes and sizes are beautiful. She did that because she knew what it was like to be shamed for not being a size 2. But that message did not always translate to ANTM. Jess Sims writes about health and body positivity and she remembers seeing that moment on Tyra's talk show and feeling like it was a little hypocritical how she and her staff and her judges treat the girls. It can all come down to what's right for me is not right for you. Tyra didn't want people to talk negatively about her body, but that didn't stop her and the judges from talking about other people's bodies. On antm, I want to be treated well. I want people to not comment on my body. I felt like I was attacked. I felt. I felt. But not wanting to make any institutional changes. Even after Tyra herself was picked apart in the tabloids, ANTM continued to pick apart their contestants, all while saying they were inclusive. The show always cast a plus size model, and for many of us, especially during the early seasons, ANTM was our introduction to the very idea of plus size modeling. But for most of those years, America's Next Top Model also reinforced the message that there was no place in the world of high fashion for plus size girls. After the break, we'll get into ANTM's treatment of its plus size contestants and talk about how the show failed to deliver on Tyra's alleged mission. In the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech@lenovo.com Dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming, and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech search power up@lenovo.com lenovo Lenovo this Halloween season, there's only one place where thrills meet chills. And it's not your neighbor's haunted house. It's Solitaire Clash. That's Solitaire C L A S H where spooky fun and big wins collide. Crack the Halloween case files, uncover eerie surprises and compete for real prizes. What Whether you're in costume or just craving a scare, Solitaire Clash brings all the fun and the fright. Download Solitaire Clash Solitaire C L A S H in the App Store and Samsung Galaxy Store today. Don't ghost this chance to win. Hey everyone, Ed Helms here and hi, I'm Kal Penn and we're the hosts of Irsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I am sitting down with Jenny Garth, host of the iHeart podcast. I choose me to discuss the new Audible adaptation of the timeless Jane Austen classic Pride and Prejudice. This is not a trick question there's no wrong answer. What role would I play? You know what? I can see you as Mr. Darcy. You got a little Colin first. Okay, that's really sweet. I appreciate that. But are you sure I'm not the dad? I'm not Mr. Bennett. Here, listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. There's nothing like sinking into luxury. Ana Bay sofas combine ultimate comfort and design at an affordable price. Annabe has designed the only fully machine washable sofa from top to bottom. The stain resistant performance fabric, slipcovers and cloud like frame duvet can go straight into your wash. Perfect for anyone with kids, pets or anyone who loves an easy to clean spotless sofa. With a modular design and changeable slipcovers, you can customize your sofa to fit any space and style. Whether you need a single chair, loveseat or a luxuriously large sectional, Anna Bay has you covered. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your home. Sofas start at just $699 and right now get early access to Black Friday savings up to 60% off store wide with a 30 day money back guarantee. Shop now@washablesofas.com Add a little to your life. Offers are separate and certain restrictions may apply. This is how Tyra kicked off ANTM Cycle 24, the show's final season. America's Next Top Model has changed the definition of beauty and empowered women when they needed it the most. I've been judged for my shape and size. I felt shameful about my body, but I defined myself. I can do anything. We celebrate the beauty in all of us. All shapes, all sizes and all colors. Top Model is my baby and the fight continues to show you that you are beautiful. By ANTM's final season, the show had rebranded itself as a champion of body positivity. They'd done away with age requirements, they had short models and there was more than one plus size model. Now they were calling them curvy models. Plus size supermodel Ashley Graham even joined the panel of judges. ANTM adapted to the changing world around it. Body shaming was out and body positivity was in. Tyra might have changed her tune, but the longtime viewers knew the truth. Body shaming was Tyra's co star. Cycle 10's Whitney Thompson is the only plus size model to ever win ANTM. America's Next Top Model is Whitney. You're the first girl with some booty to win America's Next Top Model and actually, the correct term is full figured model. This should not be called plus size or full figures. This should just be called beautiful. I honestly think the girls will look up to me and say, I could do that. You know, I could be that. I don't have to, you know, starve. I don't have to have plastic surgery. I could really be like that. I could be on that billboard. I could be on that magazine cover. Why? Because I'm beautiful, you know, from the inside out. I have breasts and I have hips and I have a butt. And I am so proud of those things. I am here. I am me, and I'm not gonna change myself. Even after ANTM rebranded itself as a leader in the body positive movement, they never awarded the title to another plus size model and they never did a plus size season. There was a short model season, a British season, three co ed seasons, a college season, but never a plus size season. Sarah Hartshorn competed as a plus size model on the cycle before Whitney Thompson, Cycle nine. For Sarah, being labeled plus size was complicated because although she didn't talk about it much on antm, she'd battled body dysmorphia and eating disorders since she was a preteen. I was given this platform and be like, fight for plus size girls. And I was like, I hate that I'm plus size because I bought into the myth that most American girls, especially at the time, bought into, which is that we were supposed to look like models, right? And if you don't, that is a moral failing on your part. That's what I believed at the time. Sarah didn't even enter the competition thinking of herself as plus size. She just knew she wasn't as skinny as the other models. I knew I wasn't a size 0 or a size 2, which is what's called straight size modeling. Or like when you think of a model that's a typical model is to size double zero, technically to four. And I knew that I wasn't that, but I didn't know what that meant. Sarah was probably a size 8 at the time. She's really tall, 5, 10. Most people would consider her to be slim or average sized in the real world, but in the modeling world, she was plus sized. Sarah became the face of that conflict on her season. I think looking at me and then calling me plus sized made people feel some type of way. I think ANTM cast Sarah so they could make a story out of her in between body type. And so they were like, okay, let's exploit that. She's too Thin to be plus size. And they wanted to have that be the angle because I think it was just painful to admit that someone as thin looking as I was was in fact easily a plus size model. A plus size model and a plus size person are not the same thing. And I think I made people sort of acknowledge that, and it made them very uncomfortable at the time. Plus size models usually started around a size 6 or 8. And in catalog modeling, the sizes went up to around an 18 or 20. ANTM didn't cast plus size models who were over a size 12 or 14. But Sara was still on the smaller end of that spectrum. So the judges started telling Sarah she was too small to be plus size. They planted the idea that Sarah was losing weight on purpose. You seem to be disappearing slightly in front of us. You seem to have lost quite a bit of weight. People have said that and yeah, and I haven't been trying to, but people keep mentioning it. We all think so. You know, you have to actually be the size to be a plus size model. Every interview, every elimination. Are you losing weight? Are you trying to lose weight? Why are you losing weight? And I also knew that I was not, in fact losing weight. And I felt kind of like a dog with a bone. So I just wouldn't let that out of my teeth because they kept trying to get me to admit that I was trying to lose weight and that I was losing weight. But I was like, I know the numbers. I look at them every day. I had lost like three pounds over the course of like, almost a month. So I was like, I know how tall I am, I know how much I weigh, and I know that that's not enough to make the difference that they're talking about. When Sarah was eliminated from the competition, Tyra cited her body type. Your place in the industry is kind of confusing right now because models are so, so, so skinny or they're plus size. But according to Sarah, the model who went on to become the first plus size a and t m winner, Whitney Thompson, was the same height and had the same measurements as Sarah. After she was eliminated, Sarah went to look for agency representation. She was told that her body type was perfect for plus size modeling. So they made this big deal about how I was like, too thin to be plus size. And then when I went to New York and signed with agencies, they were like, no, you're fine on antm. Plus size models were often relegated to being supporting cast or they were used to prove a point about modeling industry standards like Sarah. But there's one Contestant who got it the worst. She was sidelined, set up to fail, and then used to illustrate how the fashion world mistreated plus size models. I'm talking about Takara Jones. Takara was a contestant on my favorite season of ANTM Cycle 3. I told you how much I loved that season's winner, Eva Marcel or Pickford back then. Allow me a brief detour down memory lane. When she entered the competition, Eva already had a short haircut, but her A and T M makeover took it to the next level. They dyed her hair honey blonde, cut it even shorter, and tapered it on the sides. At the time, I thought that was the flyest haircut I'd ever seen. There's a photo of Eva and Tyra after her win. In it, Eva has the front of her hair spiked up with her tapered sides falling into loose, natural curls. I printed that picture in the library at school, took it to my hairstylist, and said, I need this haircut. I was 17. She promptly told me even I didn't have the same hair texture and that if she took my hair that blonde, it would probably fall out. But she assured me she would do her best. Three hours later, I was walking out of that salon with a decently close version of my favorite top model's haircut. You couldn't tell me nothing. So to say I was rooting for Eva would be an understatement. But a funny thing happened When I rewatched ANTM as an adult, I couldn't figure out why I ever liked Eva. Don't get me wrong, she was fierce, but she was mean. These days, I find myself rooting for Takara. Hi, I'm here. I'm here. I'm Takara. I'm big, black, beautiful, and lovin it. You know when you watch true crime shows and they say the victim lit up any room she walked into and you're like, who is this walking LED lamp they're talking about? People like Takara. She had presence. She was regal, beautiful, outgoing, charismatic, kind and funny. Takara was also super confident, and she didn't seem to be phased by standing in a room full of skinny models. I love my skin and I'm working it. I'm hitting 200 in the butt. What I want to encourage full figure women to appreciate their body and to know that they're beautiful. Takara was the first plus size contestant who entered the competition like she had a real chance at winning. Even Janice Dickinson said she could see Takara winning, which is high praise from a woman who Spent most of her time calling everyone too fat. Takara was also a fan favorite, and she always seemed to do well at the photo shoots and runways. But her performance never seemed to translate at the judging panel. She was never called out first. ANTM made her look like an average contestant in the competition. But watching it back now, she's clearly a star. Then came the setup. I understand yesterday you learned a lot about posing, and today's challenge is all about posing. Not only are we gonna put you gals in lingerie, but we're gonna put you in the window of La Perla in front of the whole of New York City. There was a challenge where the models had to go to a fancy lingerie boutique. The contestants were given sexy lingerie to model in the shop window. Like real life moving mannequins. But when it was Takara's turn to get her lingerie, they didn't have anything in her size. And what size are you? I'm a 38 triple D. Okay, let's see how that fits on you. La Perla didn't have my size bra in stock, and the robe was a medium. But you know, you have to deal with what you're getting given. ANTM had all the model's measurements. This was a planned challenge for a major production. Yet La Perla didn't have anything in stock that would fit Takara. So while all the other girls got to wear silk and lace bras and panties with interesting colors and textures, Takara had to wear an ill fitting black satin robe. And she was the only one in a robe. It looked like the robe a model would wear around set to cover the actual clothing she was modeling. When it was her time at the shop window, Takara had to pose alongside two other contestants in their cute lingerie. While people on the street walked by and stared, you could tell Takara was struggling to stay positive. When the challenge was over, each model was critiqued on their performance. Here's what the judge told Takara. Obviously, you have a sense of humor, but I didn't see any of it in the window. Work on bringing some of your natural charm into your modeling. Putting Takara in a matronly ill fitting robe was an obvious disadvantage. And it's hard to keep your spirits up and joke around when you're being treated unfairly. But I think that's how ANTM wanted it. Because while Takara saw herself as a winner, the producers saw her as a supporting character. The fat friend Takara was always a cheerleader for the other models. She was there Boosting their confidence. When another contestant, Kelly, started doubting her looks because of the judges critiques, Takara was the one who gave her a pep talk. Takara was always a shoulder to cry on, but she was rarely the main focus of an episode. It's a character trope we see a lot in scripted TV shows and movies. The fat, bubbly girl with a great personality whose storyline always revolved around her skinnier friend. It also seemed like Takara's other purpose on the show was to be an example of the second class treatment plus size models received in the industry. There was a particular photo shoot that seemed to be Takara's breaking point. Today you're going to be doing a photo shoot with a twist. You'll be doing two shots dressed up as two extremely opposite Personas. Then we'll put the two images together into one photograph. The photo shoot was for Mustang. The models had to pose with the car as their two alter egos. One was meant to be glamorous and the other super edgy. One model was a rich socialite and a punk rock rebel. Another was a sweet, innocent virgin and a dominatrix. One girl's edgy alter ego was an Amazonian woman. They put her in a headdress. When it was Takara's turn, she was assigned a Hollywood starlet. And no lie, the parking lot attendant. They wanted her to hand the keys to her glamorous alter ego self. While the other girls got body paint, tailored suits, headdresses and face masks. They put Takara in an orange button up shirt and khaki pants. And on top of all that, when it came time for Takara to go to wardrobe, wouldn't you know it, the same thing that happened at La Perla happened again. What size did you tell me you are? A 12. Or is it really a 14? Look like I work out of bowling alley. No you don't. I don't know why all the girls were so nice looking. And here I am looking like I work at Home Depot. You have to understand too, Takara, if you were to do catalogs, you know, for plus size models and stuff like that, this is high fashion. This is not. I gotta prove myself to the high fashion. ANTM was allegedly preparing the contestants to be high fashion models. And Takara was supposed to have a fair shake in the competition. Yet the stylist was talking to her about catalog modeling. That's how a lot of plus size models made a living. Despite Tyra's mission to expand the definition of beauty, ANTM was basically Saying there's no way Takara will ever be a top model, so why even pretend in this competition? The stylist certainly had Takara's measurements before she stepped on set. It was her job to find looks that fit Takara. But instead, she was extremely rude to Takara. She body shamed her and then blamed her for not being a size 2. Do you think that I'm going to be able to get a rack like this loaded with clothes in your size? You can't find something in my size, so I'm supposed to think everything as a negative. I don't think that you realize how this whole modeling thing works. Then when she was helping Takara get dressed, the stylist literally pinched her with a pin. There's like, no appreciation. Alright, you got pinch. Oh, my God. I know. Oh, my God. Let me see. The stylists seem to be singling Takara out. Now, if this were a real photo shoot, you better believe the stylists would have the right size clothes for the models. That's literally their job. But ANTM wanted to make a point. Plus, size models faced difficult hurdles. They weren't always treated fairly or with respect in the fatphobic industry. And while this might have been true, they used Takara, a real person who thought she had a shot at winning, to make their point. When Takara stepped on set dressed like a parking lot attendant, after watching all the other girls get to be punk rock rebels and Amazonian warriors, she was crushed. Takara, who was usually so full of life, couldn't bring it in that photo shoot. She's opening the door for the glamorous one because look at her. She's a parking attendant. I want to feel your pain. I want to feel your longing. I just wanted to read a little more in your eyes because honestly, your weakest point in your photo are your eyes. And even when she changed into her glamorous starlight look, the stylist continued to insult Takara. She implied that Takara's breasts were too big instead of taking accountability for finding clothes that were too small. Maybe some tape. Can you move it? We're gonna have to really severely strap them down. I've been disappointed with myself. I allowed other people to take my energy that they would have made me feel so bad and ashamed. The hardest part about watching that scene is that it's so clear. ANTM set Takara up to fail. But in that moment, Takara blamed herself. I don't think I did a very good job. I should have kept a positive attitude. Takara was finally the main focus of an episode. That's because ANTM had broken her spirit, and I think that was by design. She should make me feel like that, you know, well, this is what everybody else had on. And I know I can compare myself to everybody else, but damn slacks and skirts and dresses and things are just hard because I'm steady. Just trying to be so grateful. It just makes me grateful, but it hurts. On the following episode, Takara was eliminated. The judges said she'd lost her spark. Tyra Banks likes to think of herself as someone who helped carve out a place in the industry for plus size models. And in some ways, A and TM did. But the way they treated the plus size models on the show also crushed the dreams of their viewers. Stephanie Yaboa is a writer and plus size model. She remembers seeing how ANTM treated Takara when she was a teenager. It was one of the reasons why she thought she couldn't pursue modeling. With me watching it at the time, I would probably say I was like a size 16 to 18. And I remember I would watch some cycles and I would feel this sense of, oh, well, I can't get into plus size modeling and I can't get into modeling full stop because America's Next Top Model is probably representative of modeling agencies worldwide. And so if we're getting a glimpse into what modeling agencies could be like, then there's no point in me trying to get my foot in the door or maybe feel good about myself. When I was watching the show as a teenager, I didn't think ANTM's messages about bodies and weight had a real effect on me. I didn't want to be a model and I didn't want to be as thin as the girls on the show. It wasn't until I rewatched ANTM for this podcast that I realized it had affected me. Because why wasn't I rooting for Takara? She had everything going for her beauty, personality, and talent. I liked Acara, but I didn't see her as a winner. I saw her as a supporting character because while skinny models like Eva were set up to win, plus size models were set up to be sidelined. They were there to make a point and then go home. I rooted for Eva and got my hair cut like her because I wanted to identify with the winner, not her fat friend. That realization makes me feel a little sad and ashamed. What makes it even worse is that Takara is so clearly that girl. Now, don't get me wrong, this isn't a pity party for Takara. After she left the show, Takara became a working model. Despite ATM making it seem as though there wasn't a place for her in the industry, Takara carved out a place. She even had a spread in Vogue Italia. I'd say she's one of the first well known plus size black models. Takara is still one of ANTM's most successful alums and she herself says she's grateful for the platform ANTM gave her. But it's clear on the show she was never set up to win. And that makes me wonder about Tyra's so called mission to showcase diverse beauty and champion body positivity. In recent interviews, when Tyra was asked about ANTM's contradicting messages, this is what she said. I was this like unique beauty crusader. I was also this person trying to get these models work. And I think at times they battled because I wanted them to get work. But even more important to me was being a beauty crusader. And so what ends up happening is that it's a clash, right? I'm saying, oh, I want all these unique beauties, but you need to change that. You need to change that because I have these agents in the background saying, yeah, you want us to sign these girls, but she needs to change this and she needs to change, change that. In hindsight, I should have still been that beauty crusader. That is my heart and soul and why I started this show. And so that was like my big lesson. And I didn't need social media to tell me that. I realized that on my own. I've said this on the podcast a lot, but Almost none of ANTM's contestants became top models. Even the very thin models who had all the right measurements, a surprising number of them couldn't even find work because the industry didn't see them as real models. ANTM took a lot of artistic liberties to make the show entertaining. But calling the contestants fat is where ANTM decided to keep it real. Tyra could have just leaned into her so called unique beauty crusade, at least then she'd be known for that, not for sending the message to millions of young women watching that there was something wrong with their bodies. I asked Jess Sims, one of the writers you heard from earlier, what she thought about ANTM's choice to stick to body shaming. The only conclusion I could come to really is that that was not on purpose for good tv, that they had to have somebody that they could criticize this way. They had to have somebody who could serve as a punching bag because they needed that extra level of toxicity in order to have audiences tune in. Remember what Tyra's agent told her when she came up with the idea for antm? He said no one would watch the show because models weren't relatable. They weren't sympathetic. But he didn't understand the appeal of a show like America's Next Top Model. A lot of women didn't tune in because they wanted to relate. They tuned in because for an hour every week, they got free rein to scrutinize other women's bodies. It felt good to see women who thought they were beautiful be knocked down a pig, at least while they were watching the show. It's the oldest trick in the book. Being mean to someone else makes you feel better for a moment. But after the episode ended and those women and girls got ready for bed, I don't think they were left feeling inspired by Tyra's unique beauty crusade. I think they squeezed their own thighs and arms, looked in the mirror and went to bed feeling a bit worse about themselves. If you or someone you know is struggling with disordered eating, help is available. Call NEDA, the National Eating Disorder association, at 800-931-2237 or text NEETA to 741741. On the next and final episode, we look at ANTM and Tyra's legacy and try to answer the question, is Tyra Banks a reality TV villain? It's just, it's such an unfair industry. They're making it all the money still just laughing all the way to the bank and we don't get anything like nothing. Like it's just, gosh, throw me a thousand dollars per year. You know what I mean? Give me a thousand, I'll take it. I mean, give me something like it's so insulting. Thanks for listening to the Curse of America's Next Topic model. We're grateful for your support. We'd love for you to really show your support by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcast. Don't forget to give us a five star review. If you love the show, tell your group chat, your friends, your mama to check us out. And if you don't, maybe keep that one to yourself. The Curse of America's Next Top Model is a production of Glass Podcast, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with Iheartra. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass, hosted and singer produced by me, Bridget Armstrong. Our story editor is Monique Laborde, also produced by Ben Fetterman and Andrea Gunning. Associate producers are Alicia Key, Kristen Melcurry and Curry Richman. Consulting producers on this podcast are Oliver Twixt and Kate Taylor. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing on this episode by Matt Del Vecchio, Andrew Callaway and Tanner Robbins. The Curse of America's Next Top Model theme was composed by Oliver Baines Music Library provided by My Music. Special thanks to everyone we interviewed, especially the former contestants. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Also check out the ET Glass podcast Instagram for Curse of America Next Top Model behind the Scenes Content in the heat of battle, your squad relies on you. Don't let them down. Unlock elite gaming tech@lenovo.com dominate every match with next level speed, seamless streaming and performance that won't quit. Push your gameplay beyond performance with Intel Core Ultra processors for the next era of gaming. Upgrade to smooth high quality streaming with Intel Wi Fi 6e and maximize game performance with enhanced overclocking. Win the tech Search power up@lenovo.com lenovo Lenovo this Halloween season, there's only one place where thrills meet chills. And it's not your neighbor's haunted house. It's Solitaire Clash. That's Solitaire C L A S H where spooky fun and big wins collide. Crack the Halloween case files, uncover eerie surprises and compete for real prizes. Whether you're in costume or just craving a scare, Solitaire Clash brings all the fun and the fright. Download Solitaire Clash Solitaire C L A S H in the App Store and Samsung Galaxy Store today. Don't ghost this chance to win. Ah, greetings from my bath festive friends. The holidays are overwhelming, but I'm tackling this season with PayPal and making the most of my money. Money getting 5% cash back when I pay in 4. No fees, no interest. I used it to get this portable spa with jets. Now the bubbles can cling to my sculpted but pruny body. Make the most of your money this holiday with PayPal. Save the offer in the app ends 12:31 see paypal.com promoter points can be redeemed for cash and more paying for subject to terms and approval. PayPal Inc. And MLS 910457 this episode is brought to you by PBS, home of Ken Burns. His newest film, the American Revolution, reveals untold stories of people, some familiar, many forgotten, who risked everything to change the course of history. It's the story of a war that was bloody, complex and profoundly consequential Ken Burns and his co directors, Sarah Botstein and David Schmidt, shine a light on how this historic fight for independence lit the spark for freedom that still burns today. Stream the American revolution on the PBS app. Don't miss it. This is an iHeart podcast.