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The murder of an 18 year old girl in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved for years until a local housewife, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story. America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people in small towns. Listen to Graves county on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. On a cold January day in 1995, 18 year old Christa pike killed 19 year old Colleen Slemmer in the woods of Knoxville, Tennessee. Since her conviction, Krista has been sitting on Death row. How does someone prove that they deserve to live? We are starting the recording now. Please state your first and last name. Christa Pike. Listen to unrestorable Season 2 proof of life on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This girl is absolutely amazing. She's gotta come back for America's Next Top Model. I said this girl and my staff said, tyra, there's something a little different about that girl. So what's different about that girl? In 2008, Isis King made America's Next Top Model history. I was born physically male, but mentally everything else I was born female. Some people might say that I'm transgender, some people might say transsexual. Personally, I prefer born in a wrong body, meaning I was born physically male on the outside, but everything else about me was female. Isis was the first out trans contestant on antm. For a lot of viewers, this was their first time seeing a trans person on a reality show talking so openly about their identity. Tell me about when you knew that you were a girl. As long as I can remember, it's not something I've chose. This is who I've always been. And of course, Tyra got real personal real quick. So let's talk about surgery. Are you pre op or full stop transgender? Pre op. Pre op. And do you wanna have the surgery one day? If I could have it right now, than I would. Isis had a hell of a story on cycle 10. The models did a shoot where they were supposed to serve homeless chic, you know, living on the streets, but make it fashion. ANTM used actual people experiencing homelessness as extras in the shoot. Isis was living at the shelter. ANTM partnered with. You were one of the girls from the shelter who participated in our shoot in the background as an extra. Let's face it, there's a reason you're here. Because you know how to give me couture and po. Yes. There we go. It blew me away. She slayed better than some of the actual ANTM models. So Tyra cast her on the next season, cycle 11. You know, she loves her Cinderella story. And from the moment Isis walked on the set, she had to face some evil stepsisters. So Isis, I thought she looked a little manly. Like, I have small boobs too, but her boobs, she has no boobs. So I told her to come over here. We're like, come here. And then, you know you're part of the itty bitty committee. So y' all wanna figure me out, right? Huh? Y' all wanna figure me out? During the audition, Isis was minding her business when a group of girls called her over to ask why her boobs were so small. Way to tap dance around the question. So is the truth. It's what? True? Are you all female physically without one Female? No. What started out as catty curiosity quickly turned mean spirited and bigoted. My mind was like, what? Girl? How's you? Ain't this supposed to be a girl? How did you get through the door? You didn't get the narrow. She said that she used to be a man like you. Lying job. If I have to get along with Isis, I will. But then again, if it comes between me and my goal, I'll stomp that man right out of the competition. And this was just during the auditions. Once Isis made it into the house, things got worse. I'm not gonna lie, it makes me uncomfortable as hell. Azalea freaks me out that she got something else different down there than me. I could think the thing Isis, though, is like, I was, like, trying to convince myself I was comfortable. Like, how do you get comfortable? How do you get comfortable? But really, I'm not. Sometimes people have a warped view of transgender. Yeah. Like, I almost felt like I'm, like, coming from a small town. Hell, yeah. We have a warp view. Yeah, Hell, yeah. You walk around like that in a small town, you were shot. But not everyone was terrible. There were a few girls who were welcoming and supportive of Isis. The best person for this job, I mean, for this competition, is going to win. What should matter is your spirit and how much you want to be. For Isis to be so and so secure with who she is and being able to not let anything bother her, it's very commendable. IFIs made a few friends, and she found girls she could trust with her most private moments. Isis had just started transitioning. Before cycle 11, she was new to taking hormone injections. She didn't want to do it alone, so she asked another contestant, Analie Tipton, to keep her company. In order to keep up my transition, I have to take hormonal injections. Are you afraid of needles? Do you need help? Annalise? She's somebody who's really cool. So I saw her, and I asked her, would she kind of help distract me while I'm giving myself the injection? I can make stupid faces for you. I'm monkey. I can do a mean chicken impression. She's had me laughing. It made it a lot easier for me. Now I'm starting to get, like, nauseous. Damn. It's something that means so much to her, and to share that with her was quite a personal moment, I thought. I took it as a huge compliment that you asked me to be there, so thank you. It looked like a sweet moment. Years after A and T M, Annalee came out as non binary, Today they go by Leah. But in 2008, there was barely any public conversation about trans identity. When there was, trans people were the butt of the joke or met with fear and disdain. Seeing Isis take her hormone injection on camera was groundbreaking. Producers presented Isis in a way that humanized her struggle. The audience saw the ridicule she faced from the other girls, and we saw her dedication to transitioning. It sent the message that trans people aren't confused about their gender. They're people who are willing to go to great lengths to affirm their gender. It was a big deal for this to happen on broadcast television, and it's a moment that seared into the memory of a lot of queer people. It might Be hard to remember these days, but ANTM was actually a pioneer in queer representation. In 2005, the queer feminist website after Ellen called ANTM the queerest place in primetime. But the problem was those groundbreaking moments often came at the expense of the queer contestants themselves. Like that sweet moment where Isis took her hormone shot. She says she didn't want to do it. According to Isis, ANTM producers deceived her into doing it on camera. Welcome to the curse of America's Next Top Model. I'm Bridget Armstrong. America's Next Top Model stands out as a pioneer in LGBTQ representation. But like everything with this show, the way they treated those representatives was complicated, in part because ANTM was always thinking about the story, not necessarily the contestants. The impact of the decision to cast Isis King can't be measured. It was pivotal. For so many trans viewers who'd never seen positive portrayals of people like them, Isis was a symbol of what's possible. But behind the scenes, isis felt like ANTM was trying to make her a spectacle. When ATM went co ed on cycle 20, they cast a gender fluid gay man before those terms were even mainstream. He challenged the idea that male models must be overtly masculine. And he had to, because the judges constantly chastised him for being too feminine. But ANTM is also the show that gave us iconic queer judges J. Manuel Nolay Marin, Jay Alexander or Ms. J, and later, Andre Leon Talley and Law Roach. It's a show that featured an openly lesbian contestant on season one and highlighted her loving relationship. It's a show that featured queer and gender fluid contestants from the beginning until the end. So on this episode, we're going to take a look at everything ANTM got right and wrong when it comes to gender and sexual identity. We'll explore how they broke barriers and changed the world while harming the very contestants they were changing the world for. Hi. Hey, guys. I go to school at Wesleyan University, which is in Connecticut. We're at the Cycle five auditions, and a contestant named Kim Stolz just entered the competition. She's rocking a V neck sweater over a tie and button up shirt collar popped. Very preppy, very 2005 at this point. You've heard me say this a lot because we're talking about a modeling show and everyone's pretty. But Kim was gorgeous when it came to her face card. She was a classic beauty. Or at least that's what I think white people mean when they say that her mom was a high fashion model in the 80s. That's probably where she got her Looks from Kim had a short, dark brown pixie cut and doughy green eyes. Her haircut combined with her cutesy face kind of made her look like a baby doll. But something about Kim made her stand out from the rest of the girls. And it wasn't just her beauty, to be honest with you. Like, I think I can bring something different to modeling, and I've got a little bit more of a. I don't want to say masculine, but I might as well masculine look. Whatever. Just saying I want to be out like, I'm gay. And I. I'm really proud of it. I think there's a certain thing of being proud. Like, I'm black and proud. You know what I mean? But I'm not, like, walking down the red carpet. I'm black. I'm proud. You know what I'm saying? One thing about Tyra Banks, she gonna make a moment about herself. I'm certainly not gonna, like, you know, walk down the red carpet and try to kiss girls on the way. You know, that's like, not what I'm do. Kim wasn't the first contestant who was openly queer on the show. We talked about Ebony Haight from Cycle one. Michelle Dayton from Cycle four was bisexual. And there are other models who came out after the show. I will say this about A and T. After cycle one, they rarely explored storylines about a contestant's discomfort with another contestant's sexuality. Maybe it was a reflection of society's growing acceptance. So unlike Ebony on season one, Kim didn't seem to face any criticism from the other models simply because she was gay. In fact, several of them seemed quite curious. Kim even had a little fling in the house with another model, despite Kim having a girlfriend. Are you full on lesbian? I mean, you're not bi or. I only date girls. Yeah. A lot of these girls don't know anyone who is gay, and it's kind of exciting for them, but, I mean, I miss my girlfriend from home, and I'm in an open relationship, but I don't plan on acting on that. She definitely acted on it. We're open right now, and she can make out with boys all she wants. I don't care, as long as she wants to be doing it back. Yeah, that was probably ridiculous. Hopefully ridiculous, because I'm not gonna hit on anyone here. That's crazy. I'll break out with you, Kim. You know, like, whatever. Kim identified as a lesbian, but she was still figuring out her gender expression. This was 2005, before terms like non binary or gender fluid were widely accepted with the judges, it wasn't Kim's sexuality they focused on. It was what they saw as her lack of femininity. On the first Runway of the season, Kim, the models had to do their own makeup. Kim had never worn makeup. The models wore cocktail dresses and heels and had to walk down this oddly shaped Runway. It was meant to be confusing, and let's just say a lot of the walks were not good, including Kim's. Here's what the judges told her. Next, we have Kim. Oh, no. Ooh. What was the neck? I don't know. You're trying to be something that you're not. You're trying to be so sexy and so girly, and you look like a man in a dress. Girl. You just need to go with your strong masculinity. That's what brought you here. They put Kim in a cocktail dress, heels, and makeup and then chastise her for trying to be girly. But fine. It was the first episode, and at least Tyra encouraged Kim to embrace her androgyny to be herself. But that encouragement did not last long. Kim got a lot of mixed messages from the panel. When she tried to be herself, she was told she was too masculine. When she pushed herself to be more feminine, the judges seemed surprised and delighted. Your film shocked the hell out of me. This is so, like, beyond feminine. It was amazing. If you'd have shown me that, I wouldn't have known that was Kim. She still has to catch a Smith. Look at those paws. One time, Nigel Barker even made a joke out of calling her Tim instead of Kim. I would never believe it's the same person. I think this is a turning point for Tim. I called her Tim. You sure did. I saw that. Kim by day, Kim by night. I actually think she's hot. Hot, hot, hot, hot. Which means I'm getting in touch with my androgynous, feminine side. Maybe. I'm not really sure. Kim got a lot of contradicting messages from the judges when it came to her gender expression. Kim, you learned how to do all that feminine stuff, but today I asked for a signature walk. Kim, I asked for you today. I'm constantly trying to figure out what my gender is. That's hard in life in this competition every day, all the time. I suggest that you get some male fashion magazines, because when men model, they're slightly feminine, Right? You can learn from looking at that. As well as female magazines. AMPM did bring supermodel Jenny Schmizzou to the house to talk to the girls. Jenny was queer and gender nonconforming. She talked to the models about finding their own lane in fashion. My big story is that I'm a minority. I am 5 foot 7, I have a lot of tattoos, and I'm a gay model. Kim seemed especially inspired. It's really an important thing for me to see not conforming to just a generalized kind of woman. I've always been a tomboy, and I wanted to tell you guys that the differences in modeling are actually beautiful things. You say you're a tomboy, and so I was wondering, like, in terms of wearing, like, really feminine clothing, like, on the Runway. I'm wondering how you reconcile or make, like, you know, a dress look beautiful. I take it as that's a piece of art that I'm going to wear. There's always room for someone who's gonna add flair to fashion. Jenny's former struggle is a lot like what I'm going through now. This gives me hope that I can get farther. But even after that visit from Jenny Smizzou and that pep talk about being yourself, the judges were hard on Kim, which might seem odd for a show like antm. When it premiered, it featured two queer men as central members of the cast. Mr. And Ms. Jennifer. They later added Nolay Marin as a judge who was also queer. They had several queer guest judges, and Ms. J was gender fluid before anybody was calling it that. He was a Runway coach for years, and he'd been wearing fabulous dresses and heels on the set of ANTM since cycle one. One time, Kim actually called out the contradiction of Ms. J being the one to criticize her gender expression. The girls were asked to do their best signature Runway walks for Ms. J. They were at a pool, and for some reason, Ms. J brought all these church lady hats and told them to make the hats a part of their walk. When it was Kim's turn, Ms. J was already prepared for the worst. This will be real special because you are special. I want to try to put my own personality into it, but also having a feminine flair, and it's just difficult for me. A bit marionette without the strings. Kim's walk was awkward. She had on this afternoon tee outfit, but she was also trying to strut like a male model. The church hat wasn't helping. Campbell has an incredible face. She should be able to do really, really well. But unfortunately, we don't have five years. I need to somehow bring my masculinity and femininity into the walk. I lost words. Usually I have something to say. I am really lost for words. If anyone should Understand a difference of gender expression. She should be the one. I mean, are you kidding? There's a lot of queer representation in the fashion industry. People aren't surprised to see a gay male designer, stylist, makeup artist or Runway coach. But for models, sometimes it's different. These days, the industry has become more inclusive of different gender expressions. But in 2005, there was an idea that female models needed to embody femininity. And while ANTM embraced queer contestants and judges on the show, they also upheld the notion that contestants need to conform to certain gender norms. It's a dynamic Rune Longoria saw when they competed on cycle 16. When they were on ANTM, the show identified them as being polyamorous, although at the time they identified as being bisexual. After the show, Roon came out as non binary. Here they are talking with Oliver twix on his YouTube channel. Quite a few have said that they were openly queer during filming, but it either never made it on the show or was brushed aside. Yeah, definitely. I mean, especially like in that era of television, like you were allowed to be queer or gay in a way that made sense to the people that were going to be watching it. Like, I'm pretty sure I talked about the gender spectrum and feeling like I swung around on it and stuff. But yes, I agree that they do tend to hide things that are difficult to understand. And show support for ANTM included queer contestants, but they only showed the parts that would fit into a storyline and it needed to be a storyline the show thought their audience would understand. Some queer contestants say their gender and sexuality wasn't mentioned at all, while others have their whole storyline built around it. Like Kim on Cycle five. Her entire character arc was about how she was a masculine lesbian struggling to become feminine enough to model. I don't want to downplay the decision to cast Kim stolz on season five. For ANTM's young, mostly female audience. It was pretty cool to see an openly lesbian woman who described herself as masculine on a modeling competition. For young women who may have been questioning their own sexuality, Kim was an example of how to be out and proud. Also, Kim was beautiful. So beautiful she was chosen to be on a modeling competition, which contradicted the idea that so called masculine lesbians are unattractive. Kim talked about her struggle with gender norms and figuring where she fit in. Seeing that struggle on ANTM was huge for a lot of queer young people watching at home who may have been going through the same thing, but they saw that struggle play out because she was on a reality show. That was pressuring her to be more feminine. Fifteen seasons later, ANTM cast its first openly gay male contestant when the show went co ed. But according to him, at least when it came to gender expression, the show hadn't learned much. It's too feminine. We've been telling them the same thing week after week. We'll get into that after the break. 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I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her from Lava for good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns. Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. This is a tape recorded statement. Person being interviewed is Krista Gail Pike. This is in regards to the death of a choline. She started going up on me but I hit her. I just hit her and hit her and hit her and hit her. On a cold January day in 1995, 18 year old Christa pike killed 19 year old Colleen Slemmer in the woods of Knoxville, Tennessee. Since her conviction, Christa has been sitting on death row. The state has asked for an execution date for Krista. We let people languish in prison for decades, raising questions about who we consider fundamentally unrestorable. How does someone prove that they deserve to live? We are starting the recording now. Please state your first and last name. Krista Pike. Listen to unrestorable Season 2 proof of life on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from the studio. Who brought you the Piketon Massacre and murder 101? This is incels. I am a loser. If I was a woman, I wouldn't date me either. From the dark corners of the web, an emerging mindset. If I can't have you girls, I will destroy you. A kind of subculture. A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women. A seed of loneliness explodes. I just hate myself. I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. At a deadly tipping point, Incels will be added to the terrorism guide. Police say a driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing 10 people. Tomorrow is the day of retribution. I will have my revenge. This is Incels. Listen to season one of Incels on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The second that I understood that they were really trying to centralize my queer identity and really just like diminish my whole Persona and my whole identity to just one character trait and that is my gay. I definitely took those cues and I ran with it. Corey Wade was a contestant on ANTM cycle 20 or 2.0 as they were calling it. It was the first guy girl season. ANTM did three co ed cycles. Corey was the first openly gay man on antm. His presence on the show was an opportunity to explore a new trope. Corey was their token gay guy. He figured out what the show wanted from him during the auditions and he decided to go along with it. These men are nothing but eye candy to me. It's psychological warfare. Honey. Confidence is key. Honey. Anything you do, boo, do it with confidence. I definitely took it and I ran with it. I'm not gonna say it didn't hurt. Corey is probably the most clear eyed contestant I spoke with. Maybe because he was on a later season. It was 2013 and ANTM have been running for 10 years at this point. He told me he had no illusions about how reality TV works. He didn't think ANTM was going to make him a Top model. He auditioned for the show because he wanted exposure. Corey wanted to be a star. If I look back to 22 year old Corey auditioning for America's Sex Up Model, my mission at that point in time, it was very, like vapid and hollow. I just wanted to be famous. Like, I didn't care how. I just wanted to do it. Did I think that this was going to, like, make me into a supermodel like Bella and Gigi Hadid's status? No. I don't think I was ever delusional about that, to be honest with you. But I did know that it was going to get my name out there. I did know that I was in person. Pursuit of a career in entertainment. At the time, Corey was a musical theater actor performing in regional plays. He thought getting on ANTM would help his entertainment career. Plus, he'd been a huge Top Model fan growing up. When I was in middle school, oh my gosh, that was like my world. I loved America's Next Top Model. I was obsessed, like, doing like, after school hangouts with girlfriends and like perching around the TV and getting ready for the next episode. That was my life. He idolized Tyra. In fact, when Corey was bullied in high school, the other kids called him Tyra, as in Tyra Banks. And it wasn't a compliment, but he took it as one. Tyra, you know, growing up, I was kind of like obsessed with her and her talk show and just enamored by her career trajectory and just everything that she stood for, promoting body positivity, having openly LGBTQIA people on her talk show and. And not in a way that was kind of like, demeaning. I know I've taken some shots at Tyra's talk show on this podcast, but Cory's right. This was a time when talk shows were still doing surprise, I'm really a man dating reveal segments. So in comparison, both Tyra's talk show and ANTM were progressive. She would uplift them and hear their stories and advocate for them at a time where that wasn't really popular. Corey also admired the queer representation he saw on antm. It had been pivotal for him as a queer teenager. I look back at ISIS specifically and I see this, like, warrior of truth. And she went back and did the All Star cycle and slayed that as well. And then you look at representatives, like on the judges panel, like Ms. J. Alexander, who is just this like, goddess and just like, whew, like free expression. But you can't tell me nothing. Queer. Off the beaten path, visibly queer. But you can't tell me nothing. By the time Corey auditioned for ANTM J. Manuel and Ms. J. Alexander had been replaced, there was an entirely new panel of judges. Cory was disappointed. He was looking forward to meeting the queer icon Ms. J. He felt Ms. J would get him. I wanted Ms. J. Alexander to be on my judges panel. I was missing that flamboyant, just like, ugh, real raw, unapologetic gay personality just there. I missed it and I didn't get it. And they tried to like half ass a version of that by having Brian Boy on our show. But he tried not to let that get him down. He was going to be on a show that he loved as a kid, a show that cast Isis King and Ms. J. Corey went in expecting his queerness to be celebrated or at the very least accepted. So he was caught off guard at the first judging panel of the season. They were like, oh, my gosh, you look very, very feminine in this photo. Come to think of it, you present very feminine. And you know what? You dress very feminine. You talk very feminately, like everything is feminine. The first photo shoot of the season was a wedding shoot. Cory was posing as the groom alongside one of the female models. When I found out I was paired with Corey, I was scared because the most challenging part is going to be like Cory being masculine. I just want to point out in this shoot, there was a gay wedding, a lesbian wedding, a polygamy wedding, and one guy married a remote control. So gender roles didn't seem that critical to the shoot. But here's the feedback Corey got from one of the judges. Corey, were you playing a guy or a woman in the shot? I was playing a guy. Okay, you're gonna have to work your straight guy a little more. I agree with Kelly. You're not selling a complete badass to me in this photo. I think this picture of you is absolutely beautiful. I don't see an epic fail. You're smizing, you're piercing the camera. I'm gonna give you that. Was Tyra you heard at the end. And I will say, by the time Cory competed on the show, Tyra seemed a bit more evolved. She advocated for Cory and his femininity a lot on this season. One of the newer judges brought in for the co ed season was a straight male model named Rob Evans. Rob was rumored to be dating Tyra at this time. And when it came to Corey, he completely disagreed with his alleged lover. I don't particularly like this photo that much. Why? Because it's too feminine. We've been telling him the same thing week after week and he just gets brainwashed by you two every single time. Oh, brainwashed, Brainwashed. If you come into a place like presenting yourself the way you do, they will think you're the makeup artist. Tyra and Kelly Cattrone, the other female judge on this season, didn't back down from Rob. And neither did Cory. Depends on the brand. I'm coming at you as a male model. I hear this right now. This ain't working. Can I speak on that? Actually, please go on. I really, really love to work my androgyny. When my passion for modeling, you know, developed and when it actually sparked, it's when I started seeing pictures of people, you know, who were more androgynous. And in the past few years, more of that has been coming out to the forefront. Corey gave a heartfelt explanation that should have taken the attention off his so called lack of masculinity, but instead it made Rob Evans focus on it more. For Rob, the barometer for how well Corey performed in a Runway or photo shoot was how masculine he could be. Corey, I like this shot of you. It's very dude. If I didn't know any better, you pull off a dude to me and good job, man. I'm proud of you. He is a dude. You look like a man. What should I say? No, he is a man. Okay. I think you look straight in this. Yikes. Is that meant to be a compliment? Cory, the thing about you, you always know how to sell what you're wearing. And I don't even have to tell you look more manifold. It's just that's what you're delivering. Good job. Thanks. But it wasn't just Rob. Corey also got it from photographers. Oh, Corey, that's risky. Hold. Corey moves in quite a feminine way. And as a male model, you really have to appeal to men. Change. You gotta have a broad range. Keep it nice and strong, make it beautiful. Show me your eyes. I can't see your eyes. Nice job, Corey. That's masculine. Your body looks great. That was awesome. Does it look too girly though? No, that does look girly. I don't want you to look girly. I want you to look like a man. Mind you, the last bit of tape you heard was from a photo shoot where Corey was supposed to be channeling Tyra's fierceness. He had photos of Tyra printed on his nails. Corey told me, even though he peeped, that the show was going to make him their token gay guy. He didn't think he was going to be criticized for not being masculine enough. Historically, the industry is more inclusive of queer men. And that might have to do with the fact that the fashion world is pretty much run by gay men. So Corey told me he was blindsided by the feedback he got on antm, and he didn't agree with it. You're so feminine. Like, they just wouldn't stop with that. They were like, if you want to be a male model, you need to man up, mask up, like, do all this bullshit. Okay. I truthfully didn't know that that was coming. Corey expected more from antm. I'm not gonna say it didn't hurt. I'm not gonna say my emotions weren't real. Okay. Cause they were. I was at the time going through an entire identity crisis. Today, Cory identifies as non binary and uses he and they pronouns. Back in 2013, when he was taping ANTM, he identified as a gay man. You know, I knew that I was gay, but words like non, binary and genderqueer, they didn't really exist at the time. And I was kind of like feeling in a other space in terms of, like, my. My just my gender identity and being on a season of America's Next Top Model where gender is such a huge theme. Yeah, that definitely preyed on my emotional state, my mental state. It felt like my identity was being pried open. He went on that show to be famous. But being on ANTM was an awakening for Cory. That's a fight or flight moment. When you're on a judges panel and you're being told you're too gay, that's a fight or flight moment. And I think most people just want to shrink from that moment and like, disappear in a puff of smoke. But he didn't. He pushed back when Rob Evans told him he was too feminine. And he continued to serve androgyny and femininity in the competition. He was the second runner up on his season. I'm proud to have been able to stand 10 toes down and, like, have those conversations. I was prompted to just like, meet that moment and that, you know, that was the production team and whoever was pulling the strings behind the scenes who put me in that position and the judges for saying all of the stupid things they said about my femininity, about being queer. That really teed up just like a beautiful, educational moment. And people got mad online too. And people were like, wait a minute, no, you shouldn't be criticizing him this way for these things. Like He's a model. You're not gonna be able to understand anything about his sexual orientation through a photograph. Corey told me, in a weird way, he's grateful to antm. The show didn't make him a superstar, but it did help him find his purpose. I was 22 when we were filming that, like, my frontal cortex wasn't even fully developed, and there I was in the center of such an important conversation. At the time, I didn't know how big and important that was. This was 2013, when my cycle of America's Next Top Model aired. We didn't even have marriage equality. I was sparking so many conversations around the world about queer identity, LGBTQIA inclusivity. It was such a huge and impactful thing that was bigger than me, and it wasn't even what I was there for, but that was the thing that made it make sense for me. And I think that's what allowed me to come across as such like, a strong person on the show. I really am proud of how I came across on the show. If anybody remembers, I was pretty. Pretty fierce. These days, Corey is an LGBTQ advocate and educator. This passion of mine to educate in this way was born out of the first time I ever had to publicly stand up for myself and speak truth to my experience as an LGBTQIA person while being criticized for my queer identity. On America's Sex Top Model, after antm, Corey says he kept in contact with Tyra. She's actually recommended him for a few jobs. He told me he'll always have respect for her and the way she advocated for him on cycle 20. But Corey thinks the choice to focus on his sexuality and gender expression was a missed opportunity for ANTM to do something transformative. As viewers of these shows, our ideology is being shaped by what we see, even if it's on a subliminal level, even if we don't realize it. You have so much power when you have a show like that. Corey wishes ANTM treated his queerness like it was just another thing about him, instead of making it his entire storyline. He thinks doing this could have normalized homosexuality for a lot of viewers. That would have been so daring just to, like, treat it like it was nothing. Maybe then people watching would have had less of, like, a. Oh, like such a tense feeling around the idea that somebody loves differently, expresses differently. After the break, we're going to talk about Isis King. For millions of Americans, she was probably the first trans woman they'd ever seen on television. But behind the scenes, she was being treated like a spectacle. All I know is what I've been told and that to have truth is a whole lie. For almost a decade, the murder of an 18 year old girl from a small town in Graves County, Kentucky went unsolved until a local homemaker, a journalist and a handful of girls came forward with a story. I'm telling you, we know Quincy killed her. We know a story that law enforcement used to convict six people and that got the citizen investigator on national tv. Through sheer persistence and nerves, this Kentucky housewife helped give justice to Jessica Curran. My name is Maggie Freeling. I'm a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist producer and I wouldn't be here if the truth were that easy to find. I did not know her and I did not kill her or rape or burn or any of that other stuff that y' all said. They literally made me say that I took a match and struck and threw it on her. They made me say that I poured gas on her from Lava For Good. This is Graves County, a show about just how far our legal system will go in order to find someone to blame. America, y' all better wake the hell up. Bad things happens to good people and small towns. Listen to Graves county in the Bone Valley feed on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and to binge the entire season ad free. Subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcasts. This is a tape recorded statement. Person being interviewed is Krista Gail Pike. This is in regards to the death of a Colleen Slimmer. She started going off on me but I hit her. I just hit her and hit her and hit her and hit her. On a cold January day in 1995, 18 year old Christa pike killed 19 year old Colleen Slemmer in the woods of Knoxville, Tennessee. Since her conviction, Krista has been sitting on death row. The state has asked for an execution date for Krista. We let people languish in prison for decades raising questions about who we consider fundamentally unrestorable. How does someone prove that they deserve to live? We are starting the recording now. Please state your first and last name. Krista Pike. Listen to unrestorable Season 2 proof of life on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from the studio. Who brought you the Piketon massacre and murder 101? This is incels. I am a loser. If I was a woman, I wouldn't date me either. From the dark corners of the web, an emerging mindset. If I can't have you girls, I will destroy you. A kind of subculture, A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women. A seed of loneliness explodes. I just hate myself. I don't know why you girls aren't attracted to me, but I will punish you all for it. At a deadly tipping point, Incels will be added to the terrorism guide. Police say a driver intentionally drove into a crowd, killing 10 people. Tomorrow is the day of retribution. I will have my revenge. This is Incels. Listen to season one of Incels on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. In 1997 in Belgium, 37 female body parts placed in 15 trash bags were found at dump sites with evocative names like the Path of Worry, Dump Road, and Fear. Creeping discoveries of Saturday. Investigators made a new discovery yesterday afternoon of the torso of a woman. Investigators believe it is the work of a serial killer. Despite a sprawling investigation, including assistance from the American FBI, the murders have never been solved. Three decades later, we've unearthed new evidence and new suspects. We felt like we were in the presence of someone who was going to the grave. With nightmarish secrets from Tenderfoot TV and iHeart podcasts. This is Le Manstre Season 2, the Butcher of Mans. Available now. Listen for free on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Isis King's inclusion on ANTM Cycle 11 not only sparked a huge conversation among the models on her season, it sparked a huge conversation in America. Here's Tyra introducing ISIS on her talk show. Never in the history of America's Next Top Model has there ever been a finalist who was so controversial, so talked about and so blogged about. If you Google her name and Top Model together, you get more than 400,000 search results. Almost a half a million search results. I think you guys know who I'm talking about about isis. Isis. Check her out. ISIS presence on ANTM was polarizing. There were a lot of people who didn't think she belonged on the show, and they were pretty nasty about it. Here's a Fox News segment about isis. She wants to be America's Next Top Model. But there's a hitch on this one. The she actually used to be he, and I think still is. She tells or he tells Us magazine that she identifies herself as a woman born physically male. She told you guys my cards were dealt differently. Boy, that's an understatement. Fox later apologized after GLAAD reached out and told them it was offensive. But that transphobic attitude was reflected in the model house. Sharron Brown, who you heard from a few episodes ago, was on cycle 11 with ISIS. She's the model who was sent home in the first elimination after bullying Isis. Sharon told me the bullying we saw her do was a bit of a setup by the producers. But after Sharon left, things got uglier and much more pointed. I generally wouldn't hang out with characters like Alina or Sheena or Isis because she's a transgender. Sorry, cannot push ISIS. And I wasn't appreciated on cycle 11. There were a few small town southern contestants who were uncomfortable with ISIS being in the competition, and they would say really nasty and even violent things about Isis behind her back. Sometimes people have a warped view of transgender. Yeah, Like, I almost felt like coming from a small town. Hell yeah. We have a warped view. Yeah, Hell yeah. You walk around like that in a small town. You shot. I feel like ICE hasn't been doing very well in the real world of modeling. I just don't see ISIS being booked because of the way her body is now. It's still very manly, like the hands and the feet and the waist. I think it's about time for ISIS to go home. Modeling's just not for her. While those girls were whispering about Isis, she was in another room talking with other contestants about the way she was being treated. A lot of women, I found, are intimidated because you do girl better than most girls. Yeah, because I'm sorry for being myself. I don't try and think about whether I think it's right or wrong what you're doing, because it's not my choice to make for you. Isis is always gonna have people talking about her, and she needs to just, you know, keep strong, whatever, think whatever you want. But when I'm, for one, when I'm on that Runway, what are you gonna say? You can't tell me nothing. I'm here for the long run, and you're one of us, isis. This was ISIS running storyline. A girl or group of girls were mean and hateful to her. Isis stood up to her bullies, rose above it, and moved on to the next round until she was eliminated on episode five. In later interviews, Isis said the bullying and bigotry she faced on ANTM was about the same as what she experienced in the real world at that time. Outside of having to defend herself against a house full of bigots, over and over, Isis got a pretty good edit. She was an underdog who proved her bullies wrong. But what we didn't see was how the production team pushed ISIS boundaries and set her up. Remember that cute scene where she took her hormone shot while another contestant helped distract her? She's somebody who's really cool. So I saw her and I asked her, would she kind of help distract me while I'm giving myself the injection? It's something that means so much to her, and to share that with her was quite a personal moment, I thought. I took it as a huge compliment that you asked me to be there, so thank you. In the past few years, ICE has opened up about the real story behind this trailblazing moment. She says production manipulated her. Here she is talking to Jay manuel in his JChat series. At the time, I was taking hormone injections, but right before I left to do the show, I had to give myself a hormone shot. I saw blood and I fainted. So two weeks later, when I had to do my next shot, I fainted again. So I was in a process of figuring out how to switch from shots to pills because I just couldn't handle it when I went on the show. So when I went on the show, I knew that it's a chance I could faint. And I was still so new to transitioning, I didn't want to do that on camera. So I asked them, hey, when we do our next photo shoot, can the medic administer my shot? Because we have medics on set. Yeah, I said, of course, of course. Photo shoot came around. Oh, no, the medic can't do it today. Isis said the next day when they were shooting, she was told the same thing. The medic couldn't do it. She says this went on for days. Isis started to get worried. She was new to transitioning and didn't know what would happen if she missed her hormone shot. She said after a few days, she got a call on the production phone. That's the house phone the producers use when they want to relay a message to the contestants off camera. They call up, hey, so the medic won't be able to do your shot. And I was like, what do you mean the medic can't do my shot? Like, a week ago, they was gonna do my shot. Like, I need to do it. They said, yeah, you have to do your shot. Bring one of the girls to be in there with you so you don't faint. And I was just like, wow. See, I did not know that. You have never told me that ANTM had a rule about filming. If more than one girl was in the shower or bathroom at the same time, the camera was allowed to be in there too. The producers could have stayed with Isis While she took her shot off camera to make sure she didn't pass out and to call the medic if she did. But instead they told her to take another contestant with her to the bathroom. So I honestly didn't want to do it on camera. One, because I was scared I was going to faint. And then two, I just don't want to do it on the fucking camera. Me being trans in itself, that's enough of an impact. I don't need to do a hormone shot on camera. I did not know the level of manipulation. Am I going to say it surprises me? No, that I will say there was a lot of that. Maybe Tyra and Ken Mock thought having this moment would be groundbreaking and powerful. According to J. Manuel, they fought for it to air. I have to give props to Tyra, Ken, Mock, the producers. They really fought for this moment with the network. Maybe Tyra and Ken knew it would make great tv, get people talking and bring in a lot of viewers. And they were right. But telling Isis she could have the medic administer her hormone shot and then pulling the rug from under her at the last moment was wrong. If they wanted to make this a part of her storyline, she should have been the first person to sign off on it. Not to mention it put her health at risk. Isis fainted at the sight of blood and she'd already passed out twice trying to self administer her hormone shot. Antm turned what should have been a private moment into ratings fodder. And it wasn't the last time they tried to turn her experience into a spectacle. Isis said during her season, the producers removed the door from the bathroom and replaced it with a curtain. Isis doesn't know if they did it because of her or two of the other models who would sneak in the bathroom and have off camera conversations. But either way, it made Isis extremely uncomfortable. Here she is talking to Oliver Twixt about it on his YouTube channel. So at one point they took the doors off the bathrooms and it was just like a little curtain there, but when you walk by it blows. And I was just like, okay, I have to use the bathroom. At the time I was just learning how to like tape myself and I was just learning these things and I was just like, I was like, why would they do that? Like when you walk by it, breathe, you know, the breeze make the curtain move and I'm just like, somebody could easily. You can't knock. Like you can open the curtain and see me using the bathroom or me taking a shower. The showers are clear glass and in my head like, that was one of the most terrifying things, you know, I wasn't, I didn't have a connection with my body in that sense. So I didn't want anybody to see me. And I was just like, I'm going to have a moment. By moment, Isis means she was afraid her body would be exposed on camera. Remember, per the contract, producers could use footage of contestants clothed or naked whether they knew they were being taped or not. So ISIS got really conscious of when and where she would get dressed. So I usually try to shower or do stuff at certain times, or if I knew I was going to do something, like outside the show, I was just like, let me wait until the girls are loading up because I just don't want to have a moment where I'm trying to do something to make myself feel comfortable and somebody walk in. So I really hated that they took the doors off and they, they worded it like it was because the girls, they were going to shower to talk because in there you couldn't have a mic on. But they didn't want us to really be around each other without mics. So when the doors came off the hinges, I would say that was a moment for me when I was just like, that's a little weird. Especially, you know, for me. I don't want a special privilege, but I at least want some type of privacy. So whenever I even I took a shower, I would put my towel over the top of the shower, the glass, and I would just take a shower in that block. So at least if somebody did walk in, they wouldn't see me. It's like little things that people didn't think about or wouldn't think about. ANTM wanted to bring a trans model into the competition. They wanted the attention her presence would bring to the show. They maybe even wanted to spark a conversation and normalize trans identity. But they didn't facilitate a situation where ISIS could feel comfortable. They prioritized the story and the ratings over the actual person. After ISIS was eliminated, Tyra brought her on her talk show to talk about being trans. Isis mom came with her and talked about her own journey to accepting her daughter. Tyra even brought one of the bullies you heard in the tape earlier to have this weird debate. The girl was trying to justify her right to disagree with ISIS even existing. At the end of the segment, Tyra brought out the leading gender affirming surgeon in the country, Dr. Marcy Bowers. The surgeon told Isis she wanted to do her gender affirming surgery and she was going to arrange for it to be paid. So ISIS didn't have to come up with the 25 to $30,000 herself. You have some news for ISIS? What news do you have for ISIS? Well, I just want to say your story really touches my heart. And I saw you actually first on msnbc, I think, isn't it? Is that right? But I can relate to you, and I know what difference that surgery can make in your life and improves things for the better. So what I want to do is evaluate you for the processes of going through the surgery. Okay. And if I can get the money together, I'd like you to come out, assuming you want me to do your surgery. I want to do this for you. Thank you. What'd you say? This is not happening. This is not happening. How do you feel? It doesn't feel like. It's like I'm about to wake up. Yeah, I'm about to wake up. Thank you. You're welcome. For Tyra, this was a story that kept on giving. After her surgery, Tyra brought Isis, her mother, and the surgeon back on her show to talk about the whole process. And in my opinion, Tyra and the surgeon got a little too personal. Now, I know there's something called dilating that ISIS is supposed to be doing. Explain dilating. Well, patients that have gone from male to female need to keep the vagina open because ISIS boyfriend Desmond joined them on stage for this segment. So is she dilating to be able to have sex? Yes. Is that what it is for? Yes. To keep the vagina open and to allow potentially some action. So, Desmond, are you over there going, come on, baby, you gotta dilate? There's a weird dynamic that can creep into conversations about trans people. I'm talking about the tendency for people to ask really invasive personal questions that are, frankly, none of their business. The questions are usually about sex, bodily functions and private body parts. Questions people usually shy away from. Sometimes it's from genuine curiosity and a desire to understand. And there are some people who feel like education is the first step to normalization and acceptance. But a lot of times the line of questioning is just voyeuristic. Non trans people are obsessed with trans people's bodies. I don't know what Tyra was trying to accomplish here. It was the 2010s, and conversations like these weren't exactly mainstream. But there's something about watching these segments today that feels icky, like Tyra was trying to make ISIS a sideshow act. I have a lot of complicated feelings about ISIS's time on a and T M. I know it was groundbreaking, but the way Tyra and ANTM went about presenting ISIS seems wrong. I also know I have the benefit of thinking about this almost 20 years after it aired. Isis talked about this dynamic in an interview with Logo. We look at things in a different lens than now. So when people say, oh, they shouldn't have treated you like that, it make me feel some type of way because I didn't have that support back then. I didn't have people coming to my rescue. I just think that it's really easy to like point fingers now. I mean, obviously the stuff was wrong, but we're in a different era and we were obviously different people. We're way more, I think as a, as a people way more sensitive to problematic shit. So it's just hard to look at something back then because if you didn't say nothing about it back then, don't say nothing now. Cause they sure wasn't coming to my rescue. I was in there saying, help. I was up there dressing. Nobody didn't come and throw me no life wrath. They let me drown. Isis seems to have mixed feelings about Tyra and ANTM today. In the interviews you heard earlier, you can tell she was clearly uncomfortable with the behind the scenes stunts ANTM pulled. But she also seems grateful to Tyra and the show for the opportunity. I mean, Tyra helped her get gender affirming surgery. Isis also says the exposure she got from A and T M changed her life. I would say out of most of the girls, I was just like one of the ones that benefited the most from the show. Isis is a queer icon. She's one of the most famous trans people in America. She's an activist, speaker and actress. But being on the show didn't just change her life. It changed the lives of so many queer people watching her. I'm not exaggerating when I say seeing Isis on TV was a lifeline. Multiple viewers have reached out to ISIS to tell her what her representation on ANTM meant to them. A month or two after I got eliminated, this young gay kid sent me a message and said I was about to commit suicide. And seeing your story helped me realize there was a light at the end of the tunnel. And I remember crying and being like, oh snap. Like this is so much bigger than just my moment. And she's still inspiring a new generation of queer viewers who are just discovering antm. I don't know if she would have accomplished all this without the show or if her casting would have had such a huge impact had Top Model decided to do it later, when people were more comfortable with trans identity. But being a pioneer often comes with a cost. And while I can say ANTM played a pivotal role in changing attitudes towards queer people in pop culture, it seems like the contestants are the ones who bore that cost. They got the hate messages. They had to defend themselves against their castmates. They had to explain their identity to the judges and face criticism for just being them. With all that in mind, I asked Corey Wade what he thinks ANTM's legacy is when it comes to queer representation. I do think they found some really, really amazing queer representatives on that show who, just like I believe I did, met those moments with grace. I just think we need to give ISIS her flowers. I'm so grateful that that people like this exist and have been uplifted to this platform. There's a lot of beauty in what America's Next Top Model has done. For all its failings, in many ways, this was one thing ANTM got right. But for contestants like Corey, it's still complicated. I feel so many different ways about this. I'm proud, but I'm angry, but I understand, but I'm angry, but I'm grateful. On the next episode, we finally tackle one of America's Next Top Models biggest sins. We're going to talk about the body shaming and mixed messages about eating disorders that became synonymous with the show. She's huge. She's not going to be a top model. My biggest problem is her body shape. I think, you know, I wouldn't want to see her in a swimsuit. You gotta work on the size. Her body's just doing its own thing. It's all gone pear shaped is what you find in time. Timing. We reached out to Tyra Banks and ANTM executive producer Ken Mock so they could provide more perspective on Isis King's time on ANTM and Tyra's talk show and what we've discussed on this episode. But we did not hear back from them before airing this episode. Thanks for listening to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. We're grateful for your support. We'd love for you to really show your support by subscribing to our show on Apple Podcasts. Don't forget to give us a five star review. If you love the show, tell your group chat, your friends, your mama to check us out. And if you don't, maybe keep that one to yourself. The Curse of America's Next Top Model is a production of Glass Podcast, a division of Glass Entertainment Group in partnership with Iheart Podcast. The show is executive produced by Nancy Glass. Hosted and singer produced by me, Bridget Armstrong. Our story editor is Monique Laborde. Also produced by Ben Federman and Andrea Gunning. Associate producers are Alisha Key, Kristen Melcurry and Curry Richmond. Consulting producers on this podcast are Oliver Twixt and Kate Taylor. Our iHeart team is Ally Perry and Jessica Krynczyk. Audio editing on this episode by Matt Del Vecchio, Andrew Callaway and Tanner Robbins. The Curse of America's Next Top Model theme was composed by Oliver Baines Music Library, provided by My Music. Special thanks to everyone we interviewed, especially the former contestants. And for more podcasts from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Also check out the Glass podcast Instagram for Curse of America's Next Top Model behind the scenes content. You know what a girl's best friend is not diamonds her lawyers. From executive producer Ryan Murphy comes a fiery new legal drama. It's our own boutique women representing women you can't afford to miss. Make it ring. Showtime, ladies. Stand up straight and breeze into that room like a storm no one saw coming. Hulu Original Series All's fair now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Degree advanced the world's number one antiperspirant provides up to 72 hours of protection against the sweat and odor that comes with life. Degree is the wake up, work out, make a fully family breakfast. Antiperspirant, the dashing, darting, carpool, honking, get the kids off to school. Antiperspirant the work from home and do the laundry, grocery shop, on your lunch hour, never take a break. Antiperspirant so you can do what you need to do and work how you need to work. Sweat moves you forward. Degree is here to make sure it doesn't hold you back. Degree here for sweat. This is Bowen Yang from Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And guess what? I'm Matt Rogers from Las Culteresis with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. And guess what? What? I'm stressed. I got invited to a friendsgiving and now there's the big question of what to bring. No, just bring a bottle of Casamigos. Oh, Casamigos. Of course. Nothing brings people together like a batch of Casamigos margaritas. A Casamigos margarita really is the perfect cocktail. Plus, Casamigos goes with everything. Turkey, stuffing, Mac and cheese. Oh, I was thinking more cranberry juicer, ginger beer, but that works too well. You know the iconic rule of culture number 743 anything goes with my Casamigos this friendsgiving. You know what everyone will be grateful for. Cosamigos. I was gonna say you and Cosamigos. Oh, let's keep it in that order, please. Drink responsibly. Imported by Casamigos Spirits Company, White Plains, New York. Casamigos Tequila. 40% alcohol by volume. This episode is brought to you by pbs, home of Ken Burns. His newest film, the American Revolution, reveals untold stories of people, some familiar, many forgotten, who risked everything to change the course of history. It's the story of a war that was bloody, complex, and profoundly consequential. Ken Burns and his co directors, Sarah Botstein and David Schmidt, shine a light on how this historic fight for independence lit the spark for freedom that still burns today. Stream the American Revolution on the PBS app. Don't miss it. This is an iHeart podcast.