38 Spesh Called Out Jadakiss.. Then Ran To A Podcast?

Summary

Curtiss King Reacts – Episode Summary

Podcast: Curtiss King Reacts
Episode Title: 38 Spesh Called Out Jadakiss.. Then Ran To A Podcast?
Release Date: July 21, 2026
Host: Curtiss King

---

Episode Overview

In this episode, Curtiss King reacts to a brewing lyrical "feud" between independent East Coast rapper/producer 38 Spesh and hip hop legend Jadakiss. The discussion orbits around competitive lyricism, respect in hip hop, the nuances of independent vs. industry artists, and the value (or detriment) of podcasting in the culture. Curtiss examines 38 Spesh’s claims about being “ducked” by Jadakiss after their only collaboration, the nature of competition in rap, Jadakiss's reputation, and the broader implications for artists navigating authenticity and legacy.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Origin of the Rift (00:00 – 03:30)

• 38 Spesh Claims Jadakiss Avoids Collaborations After Being Outshined
  • 38 Spesh recalls their track "Sunday School" with Benny, asserting, “I happened to have the best verse on the record... Kiss never did a song with me again.” (00:20)
  • He maintains that Jadakiss has been “ducking” him ever since.
  • Curtiss observes, “In rapper talk, them right there is fighting words...-barring and sparring words.” (00:33)
• 38 Spesh: “You got a chance to come redeem yourself, Kiss.” (01:04)

2. The “Come Outside” Call Out & Larger Rap Context (01:43 – 02:16)

• 38 Spesh publicly challenges Jadakiss: “Come outside, nigga. Come outside.” (01:43)
• Curtiss frames this as classic rapper bravado, but also notes a recurring rap mentality: “It’s not enough for me to be celebrated unless someone else gets downgraded… like, there’s one chair for people to sit in.” (01:20)
• References to Big Daddy Kane’s “Bar’s Open Challenge,” which involved both 38 Spesh and Jadakiss (02:16)

3. The Money, the Feature, and Jadakiss’s Standards (03:11 – 04:43)

• Spesh claims Jada refused to take money for a feature: “I offered Jada money. He denied it. That really mean... This ain’t clout. You looking at an independent, free man…” (03:11)
• Explains that Jadakiss is selective: “If he doesn’t like an artist on a personal or musical level, no amount of money will convince him to step in the booth…” (03:48)
• Curtiss: “Ain’t no business’s business… No, no, no. I don’t want to work with you.” (04:22)

4. What’s At Stake: Indie vs. Industry Tension (05:16 – 06:49)

• Spesh frames the situation as “indie vs. industry”: “That was because he never got with me to do the records. Everybody know Kiss take a long time to get back with you…” (05:19)
• Curtiss offers empathy: “As one of the best to do it, I appreciate an artist that takes the time and doesn’t treat these as transactional…” (05:34)
• On expectations: “Eminem delivers, and I want you to actually be someone who wants to take the time because you see this is worth it.” (05:46)

5. Jadakiss Responds on Wax (06:49 – 08:10)

• Kiss delivers a direct lyrical response via the Joe and Jada Podcast:
  • “Is this about a verse, or is this about a career?” – Jadakiss (07:09)
  • Curtiss reacts: “Whoa, whoa, whoa... Jada gives you a classic Jada, raspy type of verse. And then he drops the line. Is this about a verse or is this about a career?” (07:13)
• The competition becomes public: 38 Spesh’s initial challenge is met directly in music rather than mere talk.

6. The “Podcast Era” Critique (08:30 – 08:58)

• Curtiss expresses frustration with modern discourse: “38 Special came back with a song, right? No, he went on a podcast... I hate this podcast era. I wish podcasts were not available so that all you could do was rap and that’s all we could do was talk about the rap. I hate podcasting for this. I hate my own podcast for this.” (08:30)
• Spesh’s counter was not on wax but on a podcast, disappointing Curtiss and the audience invested in bar-for-bar competition.

7. 38 Spesh’s Content Critique and Hypocrisy? (08:58 – 11:05)

• Spesh ridicules the age and subject matter of Jadakiss and Fat Joe: “Making a song about the aroma of drugs is not too appealing, my nigga. Like who are y’all trying to aim for?” (09:06)
• Curtiss points out Spesh is being ageist despite being in his 40s as well: “The ageism is crazy when it’s coming from an artist that is over 40.” (09:16)
• Spesh jokes: “Y’all should be making songs about the prescription drugs y’all taking to stay alive… rap about peptides and AARP…” (09:56)
• Curtiss deflates the veiled critique: “Competition in rap in hip hop is not—when has it been about this? It feels like a convenient argument to have when you ain’t released nothing yet…” (10:12)

8. The Real Issue: Is It About Respect or Clout? (11:55 – 13:57)

• Curtiss filters Spesh’s messaging: While Spesh champions independence, his arguments become confusing and contradictory.
• Observes the difference in grind: “That’s why I hate when they compare indie rapper success to industry rapper success. It’s not the same game at all.” (12:59)
• Suggests that Spesh’s narrative, while empowering for independents, is muddied by contradictory stances and bitterness.

9. The “White Man Money” Analogy and Debate (15:21 – 18:51)

• Spesh makes a controversial point: “You can’t talk about career when I’m not a rapper. I make money the same way the white man make money.” (15:21, 16:47)
• Curtiss pushes back: “When your example of a certain tier of success is equated to how the white man makes money, that is a cage and a sale all by itself.” (16:58)
• Spesh: “I got money for you. I been giving money to you niggas for you niggas to sing and dance.” (17:58)
• Curtiss wonders about Spesh’s motive: “Some people just want they turn to hold the whip…They don’t want independence for everybody. They want independence for themselves…” (18:52)

10. Conclusion & Reflections (19:45 – End)

• Social media weighs in: “Special on a podcast and called out Jada Kiss to rap. Kiss went to the booth and rapped. 38 special responded by going back to a podcast. What world are we in, bruh? I’m so disappointed.” (19:45)
• Curtiss summarizes the cultural tension: “If I don’t like you as an artist or on a personal level, no amount of money will convince me to step in the booth and elevate your song with a guest feature.” (17:19, late in episode)
• He laments the state of discourse and urges the culture (and Spesh) to keep the competition in the music.

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• 38 Spesh:

  • “Kiss scared to work with you. Why you think they scared to work? Some people don’t want to be outshined on the record.” (00:20)
  • “Come outside, nigga. Come outside.” (01:43)
  • “I offered Jada money. He denied it... You looking at an independent, free man.” (03:11)
  • “Y’all should be making songs about... the prescription drugs y’all taking to stay alive. Rap about peptides and AARP…” (09:56)
  • “You can’t talk about career when I’m not a rapper. I make money the same way the white man make money.” (15:21)
  • “I got money for you. I been giving money to you niggas for you niggas to sing and dance.” (17:58)

• Jadakiss:

  • “…Is this about a verse, or is this about a career?” (07:09)
  • “New York love me like when Mitch hit a pair of free throws, I was selling dope. When they used to call it PE Blow rap. I’m just happy I ain’t catch a Rico.” (08:00)
  • “If he doesn’t like an artist on a personal or musical level, no amount of money will convince him to step in the booth…” (reported, 03:48)

• Curtiss King:

  • “In rapper talk, them right there is fighting words... barring and sparring words.” (00:33)
  • “It’s not enough for me to be celebrated unless someone else gets downgraded... there’s one chair for people to sit in.” (01:20)
  • “I hate this podcast era... That’s all we could do was talk about the rap.” (08:30)
  • “This feels like the perspectives of two different people... Some people just want they turn to hold the whip.” (18:52)
  • “I think we’ll eventually get there. But this, this makes me dislike podcasts in this rap age.” (19:45)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:20: 38 Spesh explains his theory on why Jada stopped collaborating.
• 01:43: Spesh’s “Come outside, nigga” diss.
• 03:11: Spesh describes offering money for a verse and being rebuffed.
• 04:43: Curtiss discusses Jadakiss’s selectivity for features.
• 07:09: Jadakiss delivers his “Is this about a verse or... career?” bar.
• 08:30: Curtiss rants on the negatives of podcasting in rap.
• 09:56: 38 Spesh’s “peptides and AARP” jab.
• 15:21: Spesh introduces his “white man” analogy.
• 18:52: Curtiss analyzes independence vs. authority in the culture.
• 19:45: Online community and Curtiss give final thoughts.

---

Final Thoughts

Curtiss King’s episode is an incisive look at how ego, competition, and changing platforms (podcasts, social media) complicate hip hop’s most celebrated tradition: healthy, lyrical rivalry. Through detailed breakdown, Curtiss underscores that calling out a legend can be empowering—or entitled. If you’re invested in the intersections of independence, credibility, and generational hip hop politics, this is a can’t-miss episode packed with quotable moments, nuanced critique, and thoughtful reflection on what elevates the culture.

---

For feedback & discussion: what do YOU think—should artists keep the energy on wax, or is there room for podcasting and discourse in settling hip hop scores?

Transcript

[Host/Commentator]

Diy. It's been a second since we've covered anything that has to do with the competitive nature of lyricist versus lyricists. But this story intrigues me for a few different reasons. The independent rapper and producer 38 Special versus the legendary Jadakiss 38 Special supremely successful independent artists from the east coast had this to say about Jada.

[38 Special]

Kiss scared to work with you. Why you think they scared to work? Some people don't want to be outshined on the record. Like, to be honest with you, I did a record with Benny and Kiss and I happen to have the best verse on the record. I smoked the record, and Kiss never did a song with me again.

[Host/Commentator]

Okay, okay, okay. In rapper talk, this, this rapper talk them right there is fighting words. Maybe not physical fighting, but that's lyrical. Barring and sparring words 38 Special said, Rappers don't be wanting to get on songs with me.

[Jadakiss]

Look, look.

[Host/Commentator]

I ain't saying I killed nobody, but I'm just saying I might have killed somebody. The song in question that he's talking about is called Sunday School. A lot of people felt like he did have a standout verse, so he's not lying. But some of the conversation starts to get a little bit wild as he talks about the reason why Jadakiss has not done a song with him.

[38 Special]

He never did a song with me again. I don't think he'll ever do a song with me again. No. Being honest with you. The song called Sunday School like, and, you know, he told me, like, why you do that on that record? Like everybody, it was the talk of that time. You got a chance to come redeem yourself, Kiss.

[Jadakiss]

Come on.

[Host/Commentator]

Redeem yourself. We talking about the legendary Jedi kiss of 25 plus years. What is it? It feels like it's an onslaught of. Let me delegate the legends. Somebody gonna have to tell the truth, and I'm gonna tell it. It's almost a mentality of. It's not enough for me to be celebrated unless someone else gets downgraded. Like, there's one chair for people to sit in. But continue. We got more points to talk on this.

[38 Special]

Come outside, nigga. Come outside. He talking.

[Host/Commentator]

I want you remember this talk because he said, come outside. Come outside. It's a lyricist talking. You should understand what this is. Come outside. Remember he said this? Remember he said this? Okay? This is important to the timeline.

[38 Special]

We talking top right now. We talking top five. He talking to top five. Listen. Crazy, right? Listen. You go play Sunday School. Never heard nobody talking top five. That's a hey. Hey, man. Hey. He been ducking me since. Like, I'm being honest with you. That's how it is. He been ducking me since. It's. Hey, man, it hurt.

[Host/Commentator]

So in the midst of this, Big Daddy Kane issued a challenge, the bar's open challenge, also known as the Big Daddy Kane Challenge, which was a viral rap challenge. During this challenge, apparently, Big Daddy Kane called out Jadakiss, Conway, the machine, and 38 special kiss. It's one of the greatest to ever do it. He gave him a line in this one. He said, you ain't get a verse, cuz. You wasn't even worth the fee. Okay. He's just. He's just rapping. He just rapping. I could be by anybody, right? That ain't all Jada had to say. But we just walking this down the timeline in terms of. In reaction to the whole verse situation. If. If he was Indeed talking about 38 Special in a recent conversation, it's going to get a little bit off the timeline. But 38 Special said this, I guess, to even back up, you know, the factual conversation about the fee. He said, jada Kiss denied my money.

[38 Special]

How much you got for Jada to be on the verse? Then I offered Jada money. He denied it. That really mean time out. Time out. Let's put things in this proper perspective, cuz. Y' all talk about clout. This ain't clout. You looking at an independent, free man. Y' all never see me again. I still make my money. Listen, homie, I own my music and other music. Relax.

[Host/Commentator]

Oh, okay.

[38 Special]

Look at the credits.

[Host/Commentator]

Heavy talk.

[38 Special]

I ain't just sitting here rapping. I came in this, spending my money, playing the same game that the Jews play. You will take money from the Jews. You will take money from me. Let's get that understood. I don't want to talk to. No, that's not bosses, homie.

[Host/Commentator]

Okay, we'll come back to that. Here's something I thought was really interesting in the midst of all this. What I'm assuming is the Jada Kiss fan put this up on Twitter. But Jadakiss has a rule that if he doesn't like an artist on a personal or musical level, no amount of money will convince him to step in the booth and elevate their song with the guest feature. While he is known to be very selective with outsiders, he's also one of the most prominent artists who will willingly jump on a track for an up and coming underground rapper if he respects their hustle. Based upon some other clips that I saw up here. Jadakiss had nothing but glowing review of a 38 special. But I think that that's important is that if you don't like the energy that somebody is on or what they represent as a human being or a person. Ain't no business's business. Ain't no. Your money is green as anybody else's money. No, no, no. I don't want to work with you. 38 special. Them bars that might have been pointed in his direction, and he said this on Twitter. Somebody send me that Big Daddy Kane instrumental, please. Okay, okay.

[38 Special]

All right.

[Host/Commentator]

What's going on here? We in 2026. If you don't use YouTube to mp3.com, mind you, there's the same person that said, come outside. Come on and rap, man. Don't be dodging me because I gave you. That gave you working at one verse. And don't forget, this is Jada Kiss, who's already solidified his legend. But 38 special has a lot. He has a lot to say because he has made a very respectable name for himself, and he has helped a lot of people through his independent journey as an independent artist.

[38 Special]

We'd love to hear more music from the two of you, but do you feel like this could potentially cause a

[Host/Commentator]

little drawback and him saying, you know what? Fuck it, I'm never doing anything because

[38 Special]

of the comments that were made. Or do y' all just get back in the studio and get back to work? I said he was ducking me. That was because he never got with me to do the records. Everybody know kids, take a long time to get back with you on these records. You feel what I'm saying?

[Host/Commentator]

I mean, as one of the best to do it, I appreciate an artist that takes the time and doesn't treat these as transactional. If I was blessed with the opportunity to work with one of the most unique and distinctive voices in rap. Take your time. It's the same thing people expect of an Eminem. He's going to take his time. But you know what? Eminem delivers, and I want you to actually be someone who wants to take the time because you see, this is worth it.

[38 Special]

You know, that's the homie. But at the end of the day, everybody else got is getting back. If he don't want to play ball, then he don't want to play ball. You know,

[Host/Commentator]

saying this about a Jadakiss is crazy. Especially when I think about all the folks that Jada Kiss didn't been in. In back and forth with, including Beanie Siegel. He is someone who has done this since I was in damn near high school. I'm not sure if that's the person that I would say is dodging anybody or any kind of situation dealing with a lyrical conversation that just doesn't make any sense to me. He's telling them, I want you to play ball. I'm prepping this for a reason. I love that I come from a generation where when it's time to rap, my favorite rappers just rap. Jada Kiss did indeed do that. In a song that he exclusively dropped on the Joe and Jada podcast. He gave some bars specifically to 38 special.

[Jadakiss]

I don't really think you would do what you got to show me when lose track of the time Throw them a R in case we got to commit a crime Go get a stole a OG I'm more like Juan than in a new Kenobi B I G, Frank Matthews, a splash of Kobe, Bruce Lee, Muhammad Ali, half Shinobi I've been obliterating for years. Is this about a verse or is this about a career?

[Host/Commentator]

Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Jada gives you a classic Jada raspy type of verse. And then he drops the line. Is this about a verse or is this about a career?

[38 Special]

Oof.

[Host/Commentator]

Because like I said, he been taking that conversation on a media run. Look, if you get Jada Kiss in the verse, it's almost like that. That businessman that beat Michael Jordan a one on one. I wouldn't stop telling that story if I did that. But I also understand the perspective of him as an independent artist. Do these lines land harder because of our respect of Jadakiss and the platform that he has built? And are we willing to judge these on even levels of skill set? When you indeed hear 38 specially say something back.

[38 Special]

Come outside, nigga round tell you I'm

[Jadakiss]

the career repo New York love me like when Mitch hit a pair of free throws, I was selling dope. When they used to call it PE Blow rap. I'm just happy I ain't catch a Rico.

[Host/Commentator]

I mean, you asked that man to come outside. He came outside.

[38 Special]

I'm outside.

[Host/Commentator]

You asked that man to come outside and play ball, and he played ball. So of course, man, you know, hey, these are lyricists we're talking about. You talking about high level lyricism. You talking about competitive bars in a time period where there's a different platform for these type of things.

[Jadakiss]

And.

[Host/Commentator]

And people love to see that 2024 was the evidence of that. 38 Special came back with a song, right? No, he went on a podcast. Yeah. 38 special didn't return back after telling him to play ball. He played ball and he said, you know what I'm finna do. It's time to podcast. I got something to say. I hate this podcast error. I wish it wasn't available. I wish podcasts were not available so that all you could do was rap and that's all we could do was talk about the rap. I hate podcasting for this. I hate my own podcast for this.

[38 Special]

I think it was a bad idea. Why was it not a good song or. Well, let me tell you why I think it was a bad idea and I don't know who idea was. Maybe it was Fat Joe's. To sit there and have 50 year old men come on. Making a song about the aroma of drugs is not too appealing, my nigga. Like who are y' all trying to aim for?

[Host/Commentator]

Okay, now mind you, these are 50 year old artists, but the ageism is crazy when it's coming from an artist that is over 40. Somebody gonna have to tell the truth and I'm gonna tell it. No, he's not in his 20s, he's not in his 30s. He is 40 something himself. He's around my age. This can't be the first thing you say back to a song like that. I hate that argument with the passion when it comes to sports. You know, I want to see a bunch of 40 year olds playing basketball. I like watching the big three. I like watching athletes like I'm Lebron James with a high IQ and, and, and, and the ability to play above their competition no matter the age. I love seeing that. But the idea this the first thing we get back is crazy. But let him cook. He's not done yet.

[38 Special]

Like y' all should be making songs about like the prescription drugs y' all taking to stay alive and come on, you know what I'm saying? Like Pet Ties. And you should be rapping about peptides and AARP and like that and Bag Fuel.

[Host/Commentator]

Eating that up. Because they love any conversation that talks eat that talks badly on, on older rappers, mind you. 38 Special. 38 Special is known for. For bars like this. If this conversation was ever about content, we'd have to zoom out a few times. But competition in rap in hip hop is not. When has it been about this? It feels like a convenient argument to have when you ain't released nothing yet in response to this. Or maybe it's garnering a lot more attention and probably a lot more negative publicity than what he, what he intended it to do. Maybe he didn't think he's gonna get that Jada, but Jada sound like somebody to me that you don't. You tread carefully.

[38 Special]

Talking about the aroma. Who idea was that? And then diss me on it was stupid. A real drug dealer. Y' all gonna dress this A real drug dealer a that really sold drugs on a song?

[Host/Commentator]

He just talking about the content being inappropriate for a 50 year old but appropriate for 40 year old because he lived it.

[Jadakiss]

What?

[Host/Commentator]

What are we talking about? I'm confused. I'm confused. I'm confused.

[38 Special]

Kiss, you spit the verse, you got calling and Fat Joe as your backup dancers. You wearing a book bag that another man gave you. You spit the verse. You spit the verse. Fat Joe, he more happy about your verse than his DJ Khaled jumping on the couch. He don't know what's going on. He just happy to be around Khaled. Do you speak like that when you're around your Palestinian people or you just speak like that when you round?

[Host/Commentator]

Oh, come on. I thought this was about rapping. Khaled has been called out multiple times for being quiet of coming to the defense of Palestinian folks. But like, the timing of this feels very, very convenient. Like you said, what you say? A straw man argument.

[38 Special]

I'm shooting everybody. Everybody gets shot the fuck up. You speak about an independent nigger. Think I need anything from anybody? Now back to this shit. That was a bad idea.

[Host/Commentator]

Okay, to that point though, I'm with him 1000%. As an independent artist and producer myself, I'm going to always speak to the importance of empowering ourselves as independent artists and recognizing we don't need the cosigns. We don't need someone to come save us. We need to be the ones that get up and create our own destinies that make our music find independent ways to distribute it. These are all things that 38 Special has the right to talk that about because he's done it successfully. However, this argument is so all over the place, it starts to dilute those points because it's like, what, what's. What's the real issue here? Like, is it about getting a verse from Jada or is this about a moment to flip into something else? Is it about the bars, or is this about promotion of a project and getting into a more mainstream conversation because of the light that it sheds? I've never done a story on 38 Special, but I am now because of his decision to call out a Jada. Just saying, I don't want to hear

[38 Special]

no 50 year old, damn near 60. Talk about the aroma of drugs. You don't want to hear that. You don't want to hear that. But y' all don't want.

[Jadakiss]

Y', all, y'.

[38 Special]

All. Y' all gotta play the industry game. I don't. So I speak well, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know.

[Host/Commentator]

Y' all might need shout out to my dog. Master Student Vic said indie rappers versus industry rappers is what he considers this conversation really about. When you zoom it out. I came into this just like 38, spending my own bread because he's an artist himself. Buying my own features, my own album covers, my own mixing and mastering, etc. On my own bank DIY to the core. Most rappers in the industry come in spending the labels money or a big time dope boy is funding them until the label funds them. But it's a different grind when you do it all yourself. And fans don't understand that. That's why I hate when they compare indie rapper success to industry rapper success. It's not the same game at all. So even though I disagree with 38 initial calling out Jada for not keeping his word as an indie artist, I understand the frustra frustration of indie rap capping about how they gonna help an indie rapper. But they just talking. Some of these points get conflated with other points that he makes that dilutes his original point because he just, he just, he just, he going off the top of the head. It feels like he said something wild at this part.

[38 Special]

This is independency versus the industry, homie. You understand that? Of course. Listen to me carefully. It's different than that. This is a free man you're talking to that don't have to play the game that could come up here and say I don't give a about none of you respect still make all my money.

[Host/Commentator]

Okay. But to that point there was a value that he saw in Jadakiss getting on a song with him, which is what initially brought this conversation up in the first place. I think that's a fair. It's a fair argument that although he is self made, although he has created opportunities independently, there's still a value to your independent business to be aligned with a name like a Jada Kiss, especially if it's on your own record. So it's different.

[38 Special]

As opposed to a game that when got to shake hands and do this and be around that they don't like and play this game. See it's different. I ain't get rich from playing the game they played. Okay?

[Host/Commentator]

Respect.

[38 Special]

They still on that same game, that industry game. And I want y' all to know something. For the independence, it's really us versus them. These ain't gonna help y' all in no way. Don't look for no help. I never came in this game looking for help as an independent. I came in this game spending my money. It's a difference. I came in this game spending my money. I put money in all these pocket. Ask them. I spent money with them. Ask these. I spent money. I put money in their pocket, okay? I ain't coming this game asking for nothing. So it's a difference.

[Host/Commentator]

Curtis, where's the wild part? Coming up. You ain't said nothing wild yet. This is all y' all talking points here. As an independent artist, this is what we celebrate, right? These are all talking points you've made. Curtis, what's so wild about this?

[38 Special]

So you can't talk about career. When I'm not a rapper, I make money the same way the white man make money.

[Host/Commentator]

What? Excuse me? You do what? You made all those great points. You corralled all the independent artists and said, man, hey, come here. Let me.

[Jadakiss]

Let me.

[Host/Commentator]

Let me give y' all some game. It's a messed up game. The way they do us. That game is literally ran by the same white folks that he's saying that he's doing business like, they ain't gonna respect us as independent artists, but at the same time, I'm making money off all. They all just like them white folks.

[Jadakiss]

What.

[38 Special]

What that means special. The industry got program to think that you got to be on the radio to be successful, okay? To think that, you know, you gotta have a large following and make a million dollars. So they program to make you think that you got to go through them.

[Host/Commentator]

That's Kanye be doing this. He'll make like two or three good points, and you're like, that's not so crazy. And then he'll out of nowhere say, celebrity was a choice. And you say, wait, no, no, wait, no, no, no, no. You. You let. You. You. You. You manipulated me. I don't agree with that. It's like showing a clip like this to your homie. Like, man, 38 specials, talking that independent. I want to show you this, and you show it to him. And he like, what about that part? Well, everything before that, I agree with it. Here we go again. Conflating some pretty solid ideas with some other ones that just make head scratching. It's like, I'm independent, but I'm above your independence. Because I make money like the white man. No Merc. I mean all Merc. What side are you on?

[38 Special]

You looking at a free man. Free man that don't give a about nothing. That could say whatever I want because I'm self made. These came in the game off other backs. And when I say these, I mean the industry.

[Host/Commentator]

Look, I hate to keep stopping it, but this idea. I'm a free man, I'm independent. I don't have to be held to the same standards of the same expectations that these artists do. So I can move around a little bit differently. I'm with you. But when your example of a certain tier of success is equated to how the white man makes money, that is a cage and a sale all by itself. Somebody gonna have to tell the truth.

[Jadakiss]

And I'm gonna.

[Host/Commentator]

It's the same thing. People say things like when you talk a certain, certain way, use certain amount of syllables in your speech and they say, oh, you're talking white. That has less to do with how you're talking and more so to do with the person's mindset and limiting mindset about what is accessible to folks that look like them. Like it's. It's self degrading, it's disrespectful to you. As if why does it have to be a white man's way of making money versus just the way that I operated as a black businessman, period. As an independent artist, period. He sound like he was affected by these Jada verse and they sing and

[38 Special]

dance for the white man. So that's what I mean. I make money off doing what the white man did. What the white man did. He gave you money to go sing and dance. So once I found.

[Host/Commentator]

Hold on.

[38 Special]

Relax though, homie. Let's not talk this career. Relax though. All of you. Let's talk. We talk about a free man here. Listen though, I can't get here from rapping, homie. I got here from playing a white man game. What the white man do? He see you take money to sing and dance. So I got money for you. I've been giving money to you niggas for you niggas to sing and dance. How the fuck y' all gonna talk about a career with me? Y' all can't. Don't you talking to a boss head.

[Host/Commentator]

This is why I hate podcasts, because these are talking points that you put inside of a verse. This is where podcasts start to burn into your points. This delivered in a verse might be presented in a very different way. And also it brings people's attention back to your product. I hate that this was presented as a podcast.

[38 Special]

First, we're not talking to a nigga that came in asking for a handout on another nigga back. You're not talking to a rapper. But I rap better than all you niggas. Let's get that understood.

[Host/Commentator]

I just don't feel like rapping today. I rap better than all y'.

[38 Special]

All.

[Host/Commentator]

I make money like the white man. Make money off y', all, make y' all sing and make y' all do your little dance. You know what? They remind me of that quote, not everybody want black folks to be free. Some people just want they turn to hold the whip. I think the same thing applies to some of some of these independent artists in these, in these positions. They don't want independence for everybody. They want independence for themselves so that they can run the same type of business, the same type of monopolies, the same type of dependence upon their independence that they would be if they were signed. This feels like the perspectives of two different people. One being the independent artist that is empowered by the flexibility and freedom that they have, and the other one that wants to keep other artists in a certain place so that they're able to make certain they can make money off of them. It's cool. Like your independence is different from mine. I'm trying to get money like the white man. Like, this is a crazy way to say that.

[38 Special]

He tweeted, have you ever felt another rapper has got the best of you data? Kiss said no, and then replied, 38

[Host/Commentator]

special, a user on Twitter who said, so the question remains, is this about a verse or a career? That line is aging nice already. And B Dot said, touche. Look, promos, promo. I'm sure there's a lot of folks who are being exposed to his music right now who say, like, man, I never knew of a 38 special. He came at one of my favorite rappers in a Jada Kiss, and now they're engaging with the content. Now there's a way maybe that they're even purchasing tickets to go see him, especially after he drops whatever he ends up dropping, because I think he will drop something, but it don't feel like it's. It's helping the momentum. Malik here says, damn, imagine having a 25 year career like Jadakiss has. Spitting bars, making songs with legends. Everybody say, you nice. Jay Z, Nas, Biggie, just to name a few. Then another rapper have one good to great verse on you and now it's a big Deal. I know that hip hop is about competition. I know. And I love our culture for being competitive. But sometimes that competitive a lot, sometimes that competitive nature walks the line of delusion. Are so delusional that it becomes disrespectful. It almost feels like, dare I say, a bit of entitlement of I got you on a verse, so that means that you got a verse for me. You said I'm nice, so that means you got a verse for me. But I bring back what Jadakiss said his standards were. If I don't like you as an artist or on a personal level, no amount of money will convince me to step in the booth and elevate your song with a guest feature. I can't imagine me being in a position to where you value what I could give to your record. And you go about. You go about it this way, it makes me feel like, damn, if I'm do then if I don't. But to go on a podcast tour, even if it's two or three platforms, to talk about how you outdid Jadakiss on the verse, that might not make me excited about the idea of working with you in the future. That might make me say, you know what, you are talented as all hell and your work ethic is something that should be celebrated, but you are a liability. You are creating a lot of unnecessary conversations around a career that is already solidified. I saw this quote up here too Special on a podcast and called out Jada Kiss to rap. Kiss went to the booth and rapped 38 special responded by going back to a podcast. What world are we in, bruh? I'm so disappointed and I. I think we'll eventually get there. But this, this makes me dislike podcasts in this rap age. It serves different purposes. I got that. But there's a reason we care and the music is the reason we care. Nobody want to hear that podcast when you known for them bars and you got them bars and you calling out somebody else dodging you and not wanting to play ball. When they play ball, what you gonna do? Diyers. Those are my thoughts on that one. You let me know what you think. Don't let it fall.