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Coding for Veterans: Cybersecurity Today on the Weekend with David Shipley
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A
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B
Welcome to Cybersecurity. Today on the weekend I'm super excited to have a conversation with Jeff Mussen, the co founder and Executive Director of Coding for Veterans and with Daniel Shang, one of the recent graduates of their cybersecurity program and a soon to be student in the brand new Generative AI course. This is a phenomenal program started in Canada and now available in the United States that's helping connect mission driven individuals with employment in fields that are incredibly rewarding not just financially but also to give sense of purpose post service. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as I had having it. Let's get started. Jeff, Daniel, thanks for joining us. Thanks for joining me Jeff and Daniel and Daniel, just to start off with, can you tell me a little bit about yourself and what your background is.
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C
So about myself I have electrical engineer background and after that I decided to join the military. So that's how I started my military career back in 2016 and my trade in the military is more like focus on electronics communication which is mostly focused on the secure operation and IT infrastructure. So all that for the department of Canada. So that was how I started with those cybersecurity I kind of get in touch with that secure communication already and since my background a little bit close electrical but I've been working my IT for entire life. So this is that's why I kind of started into the cyber security. So after releasing and I decided you know what, I don't really know what to do. So it take me a while to decide how I want to get into the career and what to get in because I know out there there are way to make a career out there. It could be financing, it could be engineers and then it could be podcast. Anything there can be careers out there is way too much and it took me a while to figure out what I want to do until I decide. I think I heard one of the friend referring to hey have you heard about the Coding for Veteran program? Like what is that? So I just heard from one of the veterans, hey just this is a program we'll give you the option of the course for the software development and network specialist and also cybersecurity programs. Okay, that sounds interesting. Let me look into it. What's more interesting to me and I find out software was not my thing. I did not like programming and that kind of my things. And then it was either through the network specialist or cybersecurity. And I thought, you know what, I think I want to go with cybersecurity. I think this is a much more a newer trend out there and people more focused on the cyber security. So that's how I get into the program. And I started last year, so. Last year May. Yeah, that's the time I started.
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B
Nice. So tell me more about your military service. What year did you join?
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C
I joined in 2016.
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B
2016. And so did you, you came straight out of university, joined the military, did you, Were you an officer? Were you a non commissioned member? So I served in the Canadian army in the 8th Canadian Hussars as a reservist. So I'm curious about your background.
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C
I joined as a do, which is direct control officer. So that's why I joined as officer program. So. So before that I was working on the. I was working in Alberta, but that was a year really that was economic crashes in the oil industries. So that's why I laid off from the previous work. And then you know what, that was my chance. You know what, I really want to go back to military. That's something I really want to do for a long time. And then I had a chance, I had the opportunity, may as well just join in.
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B
So okay, so 2016 you joined the military as a direct officer program. And when did you leave? Leave the military?
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C
I leave the end of year of 2023.
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B
2023. So a good nine years in the service and decide you wanted to try something new and like you said, you were thinking about the options and someone told you about coding for veterans. Away you went. And what's it been like? Was it what you expected? Was it different? Was it better? Was it worse?
- [05:06]
C
I think this is definitely something new to me because before that was never heard about online school before. Everything's in person. You have to go to classroom, all that kind environment. That's an old way of a classroom environment right until now. The new program I think was heard from either Jeff or someone else in the program, say this is completely online, you can do anywhere you want. I was like, okay, how can I do that? This is different because I don't see instructor, I don't see any other student. This looks strange. To me. But until I start doing the program, it's yes, it's a follow the guidelines and there's a program, there's books or video you need to watch and do your test on your own. And then it is. It's kind of straightforward how the program designed and it's not like something you have to. It's kind of give you a shortcut what to do and follow the guideline.
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B
Nice. I can imagine there'd be quite a difference between online learning about cybersecurity and in my time in the Canadian forces, we jokingly, not jokingly referred to death by PowerPoint. So I imagine it was a bit of a different learning experience this time around.
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C
Yes, it definitely. So like I said, that's called a PowerPoint. When you say, oh, we're going to do the study. How many slides? Not many, just this course, about the 50 slides. That course, about 100 slides. It's really by the end, it's a lot of information crammed into that slide. Sometimes really missed. Did I miss that? Did I read that part? But actually on the online reading you are not only focusing on the video, you always have a book to refer to. So sometime I use the book, sometime I use the video because I find out, you know, what the video is, give me a fresh memory. But when I can trigger into the book, hey, I think I did. I heard that somewhere in the video. Let me just have a quick look on this part of reading. Ah, and then give me more details in the book. Right, because the video is more like a summarized already to you. What do you need to study? What's the mean point? What's the main focus? And then I'll use the book as a reference. Oh, I see. That's what it means, what I missed. And I go from there.
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B
What was the best part? Was there a single day, a single course? Was there a moment where you thought I'm really glad I made this choice. I'm really glad I did this program. Is there anything that stand out for you in your time as kind of that watershed moment?
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C
I think that's something I finally find in my past, before I was really blurred. Yes, I want to be in cybersecurity in this field, but I wasn't sure what I want to be. That can be anything. But I don't know because cyber security have so many things to cover and it's from Probitus, it from the government compliance and policies and incident response and then SOC Analyst. There are way too many things out there. So I wasn't sure what I exactly wanted until I starting the program. So programs guideline to step by step. It didn't sell me. Hey, you had to do the CISP right away. But they kind of guided me to, hey, how about we do some Python? Okay, that's something new to me. I never learned Python before. How about do some Python? I think this is something new to automated work, right? Okay, Python's good. And I learned Linux. That's another new thing to me as well. So this is two things was new. Completely new to me. If it's just completely on my own, I probably take CICP exam and not knowing something beforehand. So that's how I find out. Okay, this is really finding the path for me. Right? Path, not just hey, you take the exam done. No, you tell me. You need to focus a little bit more in the background. Python, you need to learn Python, you need to learn pen testing. You need to learn a little bit more ethical hacking other than just doing the CICP by the destination. So this is kind of tells me I need to do more than just doing this cybersecurity. Okay, I need to learn quite a bit more and then the program to give me really guided path. How I want to be nice.
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B
Okay, Jeff, I want to turn to you for a little bit and first I just want to get you to introduce yourself to the audience and folks watching or listening. Who is Jeff Mussen?
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D
Yeah. I'm the executive director of Coding for Veterans. We help military veterans retrain for jobs in software development, cybersecurity, and next gen AI. And the programs deliver 100% online through the University of Ottawa in Canada. And in the US we were training US Military veterans in partnership with the University of Southern California. And we're proud to say the program launched in 2019 with five students. As of January this year, we have now had over a thousand that have come through the program.
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B
I'm sorry, did you say a thousand through the program?
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D
1,000. Yes.
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B
That's phenomenal. So that's. Is that evenly split between the two countries? How did that come down?
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D
No, that's actually kind of more. I would say 90% Canada, 10% the US because we've just recently launched in. In the US in the past year.
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B
That's phenomenal. So I guess, Jeff, what's your background? Did you serve, did you have. Why be the executive director for this program? What's your origin story here?
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D
Yeah, I'm actually a geek and I come from the tech sector. And even though I've had members of the military in my family that have served, I haven't. And as being the founder of this organization, what really came through it was back. It was actually back in 2018, I actually owned a software company and we landed a contract to do risk analysis on auto accident files. And really, in essence, at that time, you put the out on LinkedIn and indeed, looking for talent into it was underwhelmed. That lack of talent was an understatement. And so in a moment of frustration, you pull out the whiteboard in your boardroom. You say, if I were to create my ideal software developer, what do they look like? Attention to detail, leadership, teamwork. And then take a step back and holy cow, these people are in the military. And I know anywhere between 8 to 10,000 people leave the military every year. And I'm fortunate enough where I annually chair Tech Day on Parliament Hill. So I bring us geeks together with the politicians. And so I knew a lot of the chiefs of staff and what have you. I put together a one pager that said, is it possible to identify the men and women leaving Canada's military that A, have an aptitude for it, B, can we partnering with an academic institution? And for selfish reasons, I now have a pipeline of talent for my software business. But then I discovered, oh my God, there's over 150,000 open IT jobs out there. There's a lot of other people that are having this same problem. And that was really the genesis of how Coding for Veterans started.
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B
Looking back over those thousand stories that you've now seen since 2019, are there a few that stand out for you where you looked and you said, this is why I did it?
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D
Absolutely. And more than a few, the comments that we have coming back from individuals are, you've changed my life. You've given us, you've given me an opportunity for a stable career. It still has the DNA of someone in the military with defense and all that kind of stuff. But really, in essence, they didn't know what they wanted to do after serving in Canada's military. And now we provide them a pathway. And a couple of funny side notes too. The largest area we actually draw from is infantry and artillery into our program. And I said to individuals, okay, why is this? And they said, look, if you're a pilot in the Air Force, you go work for Air Canada, you work WestJet, Porter, whatever. When you're an infantry and artillery, not a lot of civilian occupations that flow out of that. However, as an individual, they said, we're very up to speed in terms of the latest Tech, we understand systems this, that and the other. And what the Coding for Veterans program does is it provides them a pathway to civilian occupation. And I thought that was really an eye opener. And ultimately too, the more we started talking to people that were in the military and looking to leave, that is how the program kind of grew first from being a software development focus to now there's a lot of IT talent in the military need for an advanced stream. And that's where cybersecurity came into play. And then the final piece of the puzzle was we've been so successful with placements of the lot of our program that companies like the banks, defense contractors came to us about a year and a half ago and said, boy, it'd be great if you guys had an AI program so that veterans could upskill into AI. And so that was really the genesis of how things have progressed.
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B
It's interesting, I think your point is well made, that we don't do a great job. Certainly. I remember when I joined the Canadian forces and it's like what can you do after being an armored soldier? And I'm like, I'm not really jazzed on security guard. And I think many of the other occupations were similarly. I don't know what the best way to put it is a stereotyped in some respects, but when I've had the benefit now of being in tech for 20 years since I left university in one form or another. And what's interesting is what can make you successful in the military, particularly in the army, I think has a lot of applicability to being successful in tech. The ability to break down complex problems into manageable steps. The ability to break down work and to work in small teams and thinking about small party taskings, et cetera, to understand a mission and to work towards that and the levels of dedication sometimes required to make it work. And I think the Canadian military, and it's not unique to this common, this era that we're in now, where we're rebuilding and we've been without for the longest time. Even when I was in the late 90s, early 2000s, it was always that same story I heard from World War II veterans. It was the same story. One of my favorite stories from a Second World War vet was we operated the same of tanks as the US military, the Shermans, but we never had spare parts. So we would borrow, liberate spare parts, we would problem solve from our friends and allies. And I think it's that problem solving, mission driven personality makes a lot of sense. But is there Any veterans, any specific vet stories that just. Top of mind, this one stood out for me.
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D
Yeah, you know what? There are a couple of them. One being a veteran who almost like yourself, did not know what they wanted, what the future kind of held, and they didn't really get the direction they felt when they left the military. It's basically one day you're serving and you're told to be at this place at 0,800 hours and have you. And the next day you're out, and now what? And it actually took a mental toll on them. And so with us, we were that bridge that allowed them to kind of come out of that depression that they had to then be able to, quote, unquote, kind of give them a new purpose. And now they've really excelled and got a job working for one of the banks out there, and they could not be happier. We've had that individual, you know, we've had other individuals who. They were in their mid-50s, and they came into our program, which is the average age of someone in Our program is 39.2 years old, and they said, should I come in? I said, absolutely. And you know what? Lo and behold, guess what? They got through the program. They got hired by TD Bank. And so they were already thinking, ah, you know what? My best before date is behind. And I'm like, no, when you're talented, you are in demand out there. Those are a couple of stories that really kind of hit home and resonate of the impact that. That we're giving.
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C
No, I.
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B
And I appreciate that because I think every. Every veteran's story is unique as to the person. And certainly my. My experience was one experience. I had many friends who were deployed, whether in UN peacekeeping or NATO operations or to the war in Afghanistan. And I think it is a significant emotional adjustment. I don't think that people can really, who haven't served really understand. It's not quite institutionalized, but it's definitely. It's a different world even. One of the interesting things, from my perspective, is that in what defines a veteran versus a civilian is for me, first of all, the unlimited liability oath. And, Daniel, I don't know if you remember taking the oath, but all of a sudden it's that moment where you realize, like, it's the complete inverse of what you try and do as a civilian. You try and shield as much of your liability as you can and limit your risk when you put the uniform on and you swear the oath or solemnly affirm it, you accept unlimited liability on behalf of the state, up to and including laying down your life. And from that moment on, you're on a two word sorry. From that moment on, you are on a two past diverging in a yellow wood kind of Robert Frost journey. It's a whole different world. And all of a sudden that path comes to an end and you're back where you were, but you're five, 10, 15, 20 years later. And that takes a lot to adjust. Is that something that's part of the program at all in terms of checking in with the students, making sure that they're adjusting? Well, it's not just technical training.
- [19:14]
D
Yeah. So right from the beginning we host an orientation session. And in that orientation session you have to understand a lot of these individuals in a program have never gone to school past a high school level. And what the University of Ottawa did was recognize service in the military as being equivalent to a high school diploma. And with our program as well, it is at such a high level that Credit Center Pro, we're an accredited program. So Credit center program actually apply to someone that wants to go on and get a master's of computer science after taken our program. But right at the beginning, we help the students set their study schedule. And we say you need a minimum of 10 to 15 hours a week devoted to your studies. We have instructors that are assigned to each course. So even though it's quote unquote self paced, you're not there alone on your learning journey. The other key which really supports we have a help desk that students are able to reach out. We've also foster relationships with wounded warriors and others should someone need additional emotional support and what have you. On the academic side, we have, as I said, our instructors and what have you. But really in essence, the glue that holds our program together from coast to coast, because at any given point we have over 350 students in the program is we've set up a slack channel for each course in an overall slack channel for the, for the program itself. And I can tell you in 2025, there's just about 20,000 messages that went back and forth amongst our students, alumni, in our program, instructors. So individuals very much feel connected even though that they are working alone. And the last point that we do to support and Daniel was actually part of this on Thursday, Friday, we actually from time to time in various cities get our students together for two or three day boot camp. And in this case George Brown College ended up hosting us and we used their facilities and it was really an intensive two day sit down training program above and beyond the Normal curriculum. But I can tell you the students bonded with each other over those two days and now it becomes really helps them through their studies as they get towards the finish line.
- [21:40]
B
I really appreciate that, Jeff. And we'll come back to this idea of okay, so what's it cost? How long does it take? Those type of things. But Daniel, I want to ask you, so you're still in the program. How far along are you? How long till you're done?
- [21:56]
C
So I actually already complete the cybersecurity program, so. Already complete about two months ago. And then Jeff knows that I just signed up another one which is generated AI. So this one will start in July. So that's why it's like, you know what? I already learned the cybersecurity. I think right now it's time to apply this generated AI on top of cybersecurity, which is do a lot of those, how am I going to say, automated controls, automatic rules. Like this is something we can set it up. And on top of that AI can help us defense. Not just defend. There's a lot of other things AI can do. Like AI is not going to sleep while we're sleeping, right. So if we can set up a certain rules through the AI and through the automated program, they will do the defense for us while we're doing the resting or doing something else until there's something happened that triggered, hey, give a notification. I think you need to look into this one. They may be more dangerous. Right. So I think that's something in the next phase of the cybersecurity looking into. It's like we need to defend ourselves and also defending for the organization. So I think this is really be a great opportunity to study more of the AI.
- [23:07]
B
No, I'm excited for your second educational journey. I guess one of the questions I was going to ask you was if you had to do it all over again, would you do it? But you've answered that question because you are going to do the next part of it. So we'll move on from that. That. But where do you want to be at the end of this next course? What's your dream job? Is it working for one of the banks? Is it starting your own business? What's next for Daniel?
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C
I think there's a few phases I'm looking to right now. So first phase is I think the gaining more experiences through one of those companies. Could be a bank, could be of those big four company. I think they're the one exposing to the environment a lot more than what I can do. Through the simulated program. I think my first phase will be I need to get a little bit more experiences. And on top of that, since I already have military experience, I think there's a maybe connection for me connecting the national defense or some government department. I think this is one of my advantage. I can building connection between that and then after that. I don't know, I may be starting my own business after that. But right now that will be I would say another five to ten years plan. Right. So I need to gain a little bit more insight, experiences, hands ons, whatever I need to do and before I can go next phase.
- [24:30]
B
Now Daniel, a lot of veterans I think self select out. I can't do this, it's not for me. Why would they want me? What would you say to a veteran who's on the fence who maybe doesn't quite believe that they could be successful in one of these programs?
- [24:48]
C
I think this is definitely a, that's a different way of thinking. So I have heard a lot of veterans like I'm leaving a little bit early than the others. So some people have seen they've been serving for 20 years. So when they leave the military they're like I never interviewed any position at all. So like I, I was 17, some of the members told me I was 17. I leave the high school, joined the military right away. So there's a gap like they never experience what's a real world interviewing process and a promotion, all that kind of works because in the military you all know that how that works as long as you pass your, what's it called, the selection board and then by the time you get it promoted, right. So people really don't know how does really civilian work to do? Like what's the hiring process? Right. So people really struggle about that. So even for me actually as soon as I leave the military I actually had one of interviews through Amazon. But the time I wasn't ready for the position anyway, I was like how am I doing this interview? Even they tell me what to do. But I still wasn't sure. And then my mind was really, I was really foggy at that time. I wasn't sure is that a career I want to go or I want to do something else. So I had opportunity with Amazon, but if this time it come around, if Amazon come back to me, I think I have more clear vision how I want to pursue the next step.
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B
No, that's great. Maybe I'll try the question a different way. It's what would be the number one thing you would tell To a veteran thinking about their life after the military and why they should look at this program.
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C
I think let's put another way. So I think Randall, technology is something new. It's not really new. It's just really fast and trend in the world right now. If I don't look in the news today, I'll be left behind so much more. Right. So I think there's a lot of people getting into this program really helping them, not just you just gonna go back to school. No, this is something helping them. So there's something possibility in this field and you can continue to pursue them other than you have no idea what to do next. Right. So I have heard so many news in US People left the military, they have nothing else to do. They just become homeless because they have no purpose after. Like I said, I used to be of infantry. Who can hire infantry after that? They're not in the technical world. They're just meant to be in the field taking the orders, taking the missions. But if they like if you have a different program, they're helping them. Hey, you can apply your skills into civilian. This is also useful for them to use. I think this is something why the cyber coding for veterans. I kind of give us a purpose of thinking about your military. Skill is important not just for the military, it's also for the civilian. There's something they can take a value out of it. But sometimes I just didn't realize, oh, I can do that. And people actually tell me that yes, this is definitely valuable things that you had. You just didn't realize you had it. Like someone have to give me a little hint. Hey, you have done this one before, right? Yes, I've done it. Yeah, that's valuable. Make sure you mention that in your interview process or in your resume because that's also not valuable part. It's just I never recognize it.
- [28:17]
B
No. Thank you, Daniel. I appreciate the perspective on that. So Jeff, let's talk turkey here. What does this program actually cost a veteran? How do they get into the program?
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D
For sure? So tuition cost for those that have served in the military and released after 2006. The cost of the program, 100% of it gets covered through Veterans Affairs Canada. So tuition is $16,250 plus there's also $175 a month for books and labs. Because as Daniel alluded to with our program, it's not only theory, but you really have the hands on aspects and that's labs come in. I think someone who leaves after six years now gets upwards of $50,000 through Vax ETB fund. We also have a number of so that more than covers tuition in the program. And if want to come back as Daniel has with the AI program. In addition to that, we have a number of medically released people in the program where Manulife and VOC rehab will then end up paying 100% of the cost for them to retrain in our program to then become cyber cy specialists, the analyst or software developers. And then the last thing we actually had a number of people that wanted in our program that either didn't qualify for VAX ETB because maybe they served five years or they were reservists or they were spouses and what have you. And so we actually started a pilot project with the province of Ontario which they pick up the cost for those that fill in for or don't qualify for VAX funding, which then really opened up our program to the military ecosystem. And it's been so successful that now we're in talks with a couple of other provinces to roll out the same kind of funding format moving forward.
- [30:14]
B
Wow. So sign me up for the lobby list for that. Hey, hey. Provinces listening. Come on. Let's tap into the other potential here, particularly as you said then the reserve side and the into the military family side. That's phenomenal. But are there other ways for organizations to help you to get involved? Is it like what the banks are doing, stepping up and hiring graduates? Is it work placements? Is it equipment? What do you need to help triple the impact of coding for veterans?
- [30:45]
D
Yeah. So there's a few things that we're working on. You hit the nail on the head. Educating employers to the value of hiring someone with a military background and translating that military service plus in our program, what they've learned. And it was interesting because we had a venture, the big consulting firm, do an economic impact study on our program and the findings were, and this is all pro bono, they because every year they end up picking a couple military groups in which to do a thorough analysis. What they found was when someone leaves the military and gets a job, on average they'll make about 52, $53,000. When that same individual leaves the military spends 12 months in our program, which is on average how long it takes someone to get through their starting salaries now 80, $82,000 a year.
- [31:34]
B
Wow.
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D
It's a huge jump. And by the time that person retires, they will have pumped an additional 1.3 into Canada's GDP. But that is all the economic impacts, the soft skills like the leadership Teamwork and all that. We really need to educate employers to the value that someone from our military brings to the table. So that's number one. Number two, we're always looking for mentors, people that mentor students in our program, talk to them about their experiences, things like that. We also host guest panels. Like on Friday we had TD Price, Waterhouse, KPMG on a panel talking to our students about what life is like when you work in a, in an organization as part of their cybersecurity team. So that. And then really the third thing is going to roll this out a little bit later this year. We're looking to set up scholarships and bursaries for students that don't qualify for back funding. And governments haven't stepped up, provincial governments haven't stepped up. And that's a little kind of look ahead behind the curtain, the other ways that corporations can contribute.
- [32:47]
B
No, I love this. So if I had to recap and say, okay, number one, employers and others, let's continue to grow our awareness of this tremendous workforce, talent and potential and invest in those who have sacrificed. Because no matter what, anyone who has served in uniform has taken on a liability and has made sacrifices, either things they missed out on in their friends, family life, others have walked away with injuries and others, it's had its challenges. So I think, how do we be there for those who were ready to be there at the drop of a hat for us? I love the call to action for the listeners on this show who could be mentors. I've had the privilege of mentoring in various aspects of my life. It is a phenomenal experience and I highly encourage others to do it and support a veteran. That's phenomenal. And I do love this. The idea of the scholarship and how do we roll up our sleeves when government doesn't always step up, up, unfortunately, does still happen. How do we still fill that gap? Because I would love to see your program do 3,000, would do 5,000, but it would. And it would still wouldn't close the talent need gap in tech in other areas that we have. But what a phenomenal impact that would have, I guess. Jeff, is there anything that, like, when we think about the challenges that you're facing, that you get frustrated with that you just like, oh, another day of this. And what is that? And if it is what gets you through it.
- [34:23]
D
You know what's interesting, the hardest part was getting this organization going from actually first launching it to getting five students in the program. There were a lot of hurdles, things like that, right. And then there Were other hurdles from that 5 up to 100. And I always like to say new level, new devil. Right? You've got. But now we've got the formula honed in. We now have the template of what success looks like. Daniel is the perfect person in which to. For us to really highlight because he encompasses not only the outcomes that we for in this program, but that students have been able to achieve because there's nothing like a good track record in which to draw from. And I can tell you over 50% of the people coming into our program are all from referrals and that people in the program that could be counselors, dealing with them, all that kind of stuff. Are there big hurdles that we have? Not overly. We've been able to mitigate a lot of this. And one thing I always like to say is success has many parents. Failure is an orphan. Right. And so when you start building that success, you now have people that want to jump on board and they're willing to step up. And that is the key thing because we. I launched this program team I have, and quite frankly, they're the ones that are responsible for the success, whether it be our academic team or outreach team or what have you. Sure, you can come up with an idea, but unless you can execute on that, you're dead in the water. So, yeah, we always want to expand and continue to grow, but at least we've got the formula figured out and now it's a matter of just scaling.
- [36:09]
B
No, that's. That that's exciting. Jeff, I'm thrilled with the impact you had. Like you say, the impact of the program is phenomenal from an economic standpoint and from. You talked about, if I heard correctly, the average salary post leaving the military in that $50,000 range and now it's the starting salary's in the $80,000 range. That's significant. That's important. I do think aligning people with a purpose driven life that's meaningful and economically rewarded is even more impactful because every one of these veterans leaving has demonstrated they're a sheepdog. I've named my company after Sheepdog in honor of someone of that effect. But they're the people that look out for others and put others first. So I think that it's great that we can find a program that helps them do that, but also helps them win too, in that respect. Gentlemen, if I had to ask for concluding thoughts. Jeff, what's your next milestone? I've joked and said let's get to three, let's get to five. But what's your goal for the program next?
- [37:15]
D
Yeah. A few months ago we got approved current serving members to now start taking our program. And what we really want to be able to do is we built out this ecosystem related with veterans, reservists, spouses, family members and others. And now we want to be able to help become one of the go to places to retrain current serving members because this is a huge opportunity. The world has completely shifted and for Canada to become a global leader in cybersecurity. AI, you can't have that without talent. And so we feel that we're able to help bridge that gap and now spread the message within the caf community about not only those that we help you go from deployment to employment, as we say, but ultimately you go from on the battlefield to now serving in cyberspace. So for us, it's really to help Canada become a world leader as it relates to cyber.
- [38:14]
B
But and it's not just Canada you mentioned you're helping in the United States. And if another, if there's another Jeff out there listening and we have listeners from around the world and they go, I love this idea of coding for veterans. They don't know where to start. Are you open to them giving you a call and saying, okay, Jeff, what are we going to do to get to our first five students?
- [38:33]
D
Absolutely. Because the thing is, it was real trial and error how we launched this, even to the point where, you know, when I came up with the idea, the URL coding for veterans was available. Right. Which to me was like a sign I'm on to something. And if you explain the concept of the program, if you think talent is the new oil. Right. We discovered a new oil field, we have unlimited refinery capabilities because I'm slipped 100% online through the University of Ottawa. And then you literally have the gas stations in which to dispense the gas. Right. So when you kind of think of it like that and there's multiple opportunities for other areas, countries, things like that, not to mention even within Canada, could you have a vet like veteran related for medical. Right. Occupations or financial services or project Man. There is such a huge. Not everyone coming out of the military is fit for an IT career, maybe desire, whatever. But to start unlocking opportunities in other areas using our template, but changing the subject matter I think could be a big boost. And if anyone is looking, we got a lot of battle scars right when we were able to figure it out. Use our template in which to launch.
- [39:53]
B
That's awesome. And what a phenomenal call to action. Daniel, looking back we had a rewind time to 2016. Could you have seen yourself where you are now? Finished a cybersecurity program, about to do a generative AI program. What would you say to yourself in 2016 with what you know now?
- [40:13]
C
That's the 10, 10 years like a huge difference. Right. So by that, by 2016, I was still thinking about trying to become an engineer, like a certified engineer. From that right now, jump to cybersecurity, I completely shift my career. Right. So become engineer. Still good. Because engineer background kind of to give me a lot of those guidelines, how I see forward in the engineer field. Not that just in the world we're right now. So I can see a lot of things through the engineer point of view and now through the military. Definitely changed my whole career. Right. And now into cyber security. I think this is something definitely new and I'm really excited to see what's coming next.
- [41:00]
B
Thank you so much, Daniel. Thank you so much, Jeff. Really appreciate the conversation. I'm so glad, Daniel, to highlight your story and the success that you've had. Jeff, thanks so much. I know you got started with this because you saw a need for your business, but you've taken it so much further than that and transformed so many lives. I really appreciate you both. I hope you both have a great rest of your week.
- [41:25]
A
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