Cybersecurity Today: "Exploring the Dark Web: A Conversation with Criminologist David Decary-Hetu"

Host: Jim Love
Guest: Dr. David Decary-Hetu, Criminologist, University of Montreal
Date: October 18, 2025

Episode Overview

In this episode, Jim Love engages Dr. David Decary-Hetu in a deep-dive conversation about the dark web and its influence on modern cybercrime. The discussion covers the basics of dark web technology, the social nature of online criminal networks, law enforcement’s challenges, how trust is established among criminals, and evolving strategies for monitoring threats. Dr. Decary-Hetu, a leading criminology expert, demystifies the realities—and the myths—of the dark web. He also shares insights valuable to anyone in cybersecurity or business risk management.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

What Is the Dark Web? (04:23–06:20)

• The dark web isn't a "place," but rather a set of technologies allowing for anonymous communications.
  • “Many people think it’s a place... you really have to see it as a communication channel.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [04:23]
• Anonymity is its main appeal for both users and site operators.
  • Enables both sides (host and visitor) to mask their identities and locations.

Technology Behind the Dark Web (05:34–07:37)

• TOR Network is the most prominent, offering user-friendly anonymity thanks to sustained funding (mostly US government).
  • “They were lucky because they were actually funded by the US Government, who still funds the operations to this day.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [06:17]
• Onion routing: connections pass through several relays, encrypting information in layers (“like peeling an onion”) [09:18].
• Other projects (like i2p) lack the scale due to less funding and technical overhead to maintain safe software.

Who Uses the Dark Web, and For What? (14:56–16:30)

• Content includes illicit trade (drugs, firearms), forums for criminal activities, and even accessible “mainstream” services (e.g., Facebook, CIA).
• Notably, a significant amount of dark web traffic is to illegal content, especially child abuse material.
  • “I would not be surprised if a large portion of the network was dedicated, used by people who want to exchange child pornography…” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [16:17]

How Do People Find and Trust Each Other? (10:33–12:39, 19:47–22:40)

• No centralized search; dark web operates much like early web directories and word-of-mouth links.
• URLs are long, random, and not guessable, further securing access.
• Trust builds gradually, often through small test exchanges.
  • “You would see this trust building where people would say, I'll trust you for $5 of illicit drugs, then I'll trust you for $20... and then maybe I'll trust you for a hundred dollars...” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [21:39]
• Forums and directories (sometimes also accessible via clear web) play a key networking role.

Intersection and Structure of Online Crime (24:59–26:27)

• Dark web actors usually cluster by crime type and geography.
  • “We even see groups based on the type of activity, but also the places that they're from... even in the name of the channel, you're going to have what these people are doing and where they're from.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [25:26]
• Language and cultural familiarity shape online criminal communities.

Recruitment and Social Engineering (22:40–24:59, 28:09–30:56)

• Ransomware and other cyber gangs recruit mostly young, tech-savvy individuals (often via mainstream platforms like Upwork, Telegram).
• Localization (shared language, culture) remains crucial for successful social engineering and crime.
  • “If you have social engineering, you have to have someone who's local or it takes time for you to really be good at it in a different culture.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [30:03]

Law Enforcement Approaches and Challenges (13:57–15:08, 26:27–28:09, 31:15–36:12)

• Technology (Tor, cryptography) is not "broken," making direct tracking difficult.
• Social monitoring and disruptions (e.g., targeting cryptocurrency exchanges, sowing distrust) are more effective.
• Crackdowns on platforms only have brief effects; new markets inevitably emerge.
  • “If you attack the platforms, someone's going to create a new one and they'll be just back to what they were doing just in a matter of weeks.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [27:19]
• Law enforcement sometimes runs sites to gather evidence, then reveals their undercover status to create broad deterrence (conditional deterrence) [33:00].

Dark Web’s Evolution & Future (36:12–39:34)

• Law enforcement focus has made the dark web less "important"—criminals now migrate towards other encrypted platforms (like Telegram, Signal, Discord).
  • “More and more what we're seeing is people are saying, using the Dark web, yes, it provides me some level of anonymity, but... they can actually find my identity pretty easily anyways.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [36:49]
• Cryptocurrency has been transformative for online crime, especially ransomware. Dr. Decary-Hetu questions its legitimate value for society.
  • “It's perhaps one of the few technologies that have very few useful use cases and a lot of problematic use cases... for buying a sandwich, it makes little to no sense.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [39:12]

Legal and Policy Implications (41:01–45:03)

• Legal systems lag technological realities, creating loopholes (examples of data theft and crypto-related prosecutions).
• Laws need to evolve to address new forms of crime and assets [41:51].
• Negative consequences of outlawing tech or mandating backdoors: such moves generally hurt law-abiding users more than criminals.
  • “When you're creating backdoors... the only thing that happens is the bad guys can access the technology and the good guys cannot. Nothing new here, but that's always what we see.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [44:29]

Advice for Cybersecurity Professionals (46:09–49:58)

• Actively monitor mentions of your organization and industry on both clear and dark web.
  • “Trying to understand… what are people saying about me? Are people selling accounts with my employees?” [46:22]
• Focus on real-world attack trends, not just compliance.
• BSides conferences and cybersecurity podcasts are great (and affordable) starting points for education.
  • “Just watching the content that's been produced online, podcast like this one… gives you a sense for what's going on, what are the big trends.” [48:12]
  • BSides: affordable, accessible local conferences [49:11]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the social nature of cybercrime:
  “Crime is probably the most social activity in the whole world. So these offenders are, in most cases, going to connect with each other.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [00:00]

• On technology’s double-edged sword:
  “No technology is inherently evil. Sometimes we try to say encryption is bad... The only thing that happens is the bad guys can access the technology and the good guys cannot.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [44:29]

• On law enforcement effectiveness:
  “Even if you take down the biggest platform... about six weeks later, there's going to be a new platform... and everyone's going to be back to business.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [27:14]

• On cryptocurrency in cybercrime:
  “If we didn't have cryptocurrencies, it would be so much harder for people to buy and sell malware, to buy and sell identities, access to networks...” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [39:00]

• On backdoors and security policy:
  “You can put a hidden backdoor somewhere, but the second you use it, you just burned it, basically. So there's ways to do effective backdoor. Only problem is you cannot use them.” — Dr. Decary-Hetu [46:09]

Important Segment Timestamps

• [04:23] – Dark Web definition and how it functions
• [05:34] – Technology powering the dark web (Tor, I2P, onion routing)
• [10:33] – How users navigate and discover dark web resources
• [14:56] – Overview of main criminal activities on the dark web
• [19:47] – Establishment of trust among criminal users
• [22:40] – Recruitment, especially of young hackers
• [24:59] – Segmentation and structure of online criminal groups
• [27:14] – The resilience of criminal networks after platform shutdowns
• [31:15] – Effectiveness of law enforcement and what strategies work
• [36:12] – Evolution of criminal platforms beyond the dark web
• [39:12] – The transformative (and problematic) impact of cryptocurrency
• [41:51] – Legal loopholes and the need for new laws
• [44:29] – Dangers of broad anti-privacy or anti-encryption regulation
• [46:22] – Practical advice for organizations on threat monitoring
• [49:11] – Conferences and resources for ongoing cybersecurity education

Conclusion

This episode offers practical wisdom, clarifies many misconceptions, and brings needed nuance to discussions about the dark web. Dr. Decary-Hetu highlights both how criminal networks flourish in online anonymity and how, paradoxically, social and human vulnerabilities remain the cornerstone of both offense and defense in cybersecurity. The episode underscores the importance of being proactive, staying informed, and understanding the ever-changing threat landscape—be it on the dark web or new, emerging platforms.

Recommended for anyone in security, risk, or technology leadership, and those looking for an authoritative primer on the realities of the dark web.