Insights from a Tech Leader: Interview with TD Bank's Chief Architect Licenia Rojas

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Insights from a Tech Leader: Interview with TD Bank's Chief Architect Licinia Rojas"

Cybersecurity Today hosted by Jim Love features an enlightening conversation with Licinia Rojas, Senior Vice President and Chief Architect at TD Bank. Released on April 12, 2025, this episode delves into Licinia's extensive career, her approach to technology and innovation, the importance of company culture, and her insights on emerging technologies like artificial intelligence (AI), blockchain, and the metaverse. This summary captures the essence of their discussion, highlighting key points, notable quotes, and actionable advice for professionals in the cybersecurity and technology sectors.

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1. Introduction to Licinia Rojas

Jim Love opens the episode by introducing Licinia Rojas, emphasizing her role as a top technology leader at TD Bank. He highlights that the conversation extends beyond cybersecurity to encompass innovation and architectural strategies, offering listeners a comprehensive view of leadership in technology.

• Jim Love [00:00]: "It's not strictly about cybersecurity, it's about innovation and architecture."

2. Licinia's Career Journey and Early Influences

Licinia shares her 30-year-long journey in the technology sector, attributing her success to mentors, self-belief, and authentic relationships. She credits her mother's determination to create a better life after immigrating to the U.S. as a foundational influence.

• Licinia Rojas [01:43]: "A lot is great mentors, believing in myself and being authentic, that helped me to get where I am today."

3. Discovering a Passion for Technology

Contrary to actively seeking technology, Licinia explains how it "found her." Her introduction to computer courses in high school piqued her interest, leading her to pursue electrical engineering in university. The collaborative nature of programming and problem-solving solidified her passion.

• Licinia Rojas [02:35]: "Actually, it found me."

Jim echoes the sentiment, appreciating educational programs that open new possibilities, beyond just imparting work skills.

• Jim Love [03:31]: "Isn't it wonderful when you get to a program that opens your eyes to the possibilities?"

4. Navigating Career Transitions and Embracing Learning

Licinia discusses the challenges of transitioning into new roles where she isn't the expert. She emphasizes the importance of authenticity, leveraging one's strengths, and setting structured plans to overcome fears associated with stepping out of comfort zones.

• Licinia Rojas [05:44]: "When you change roles and you're not the expert, it can be scary. I think it's one realizing that those are natural emotions."

She advocates for reverse mentoring, where leaders seek guidance from experts in new areas, fostering a culture of continuous learning and curiosity.

• Licinia Rojas [06:54]: "I go to the expert and I say, I want you to mentor me."

5. Building an Inclusive and Empowering Culture

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around creating an inclusive environment where all voices are heard. Licinia shares strategies such as actively facilitating quieter team members to speak and ensuring that experts from underrepresented groups are given the space to contribute.

• Licinia Rojas [10:26]: "There's something that's my commitment to just continuously create an inclusive culture."

She also reflects on personal coaching experiences that taught her to respond succinctly in meetings, enhancing clarity and engagement.

• Licinia Rojas [12:11]: "Answer the question yes or no and then you ask if they want that they want more detail."

6. Modernization Strategy at TD Bank

As Chief Architect, Licinia oversees the bank's modernization strategy, collaborating with business and technology teams to shape future capabilities. She highlights the dynamic nature of her role, particularly with the advent of generative AI, which requires constant reevaluation of roadmaps to integrate new technologies effectively.

• Licinia Rojas [15:14]: "I spend a lot of time with business groups and the technology teams, thinking about the business and technology capabilities that will shape the future of the bank."

7. The Evolution and Relevance of Architectural Roles

Licinia provides insights into the resurgence of architectural roles in technology. She attributes their revival to a shift from being perceived as an "ivory tower" to being outcome-focused and customer-centric, ensuring that architectural plans are practical and aligned with business objectives.

• Licinia Rojas [17:07]: "Architecture...how does it actually turn into an outcome? And I think being outcome focused is very important for architecture."

8. Embracing and Integrating Emerging Technologies

Blockchain and Cryptocurrency

Licinia anticipates a comeback for blockchain and cryptocurrency, especially within the payment industry, despite past ethical challenges.

• Licinia Rojas [31:54]: "I could see blockchain and crypto making its way back after its flounder..."

Metaverse

She foresees the metaverse finding its niche in corporate applications, enhancing learning and interaction modalities.

• Licinia Rojas [31:54]: "We see it already and coming into the corporate world because we see it in the world around us in the consumer sense."

9. Integrating Security with Architecture

Addressing the balance between security and progress, Licinia underscores the necessity of embedding security into the architectural framework from the outset. At TD Bank, security architecture is integrated across application, data, and infrastructure domains, promoting a unified defense strategy.

• Licinia Rojas [33:32]: "Everything always has to be with. Within your risk appetite. So always you want to be secure."

She highlights the importance of automation and layered defenses to maintain security without stifling innovation.

10. Strategic Investment and Modernization Roadmaps

Licinia discusses the critical role of strategic planning in technology investments. Regularly updating modernization roadmaps allows TD Bank to stay agile, ensuring that investments align with current needs and future directions.

• Licinia Rojas [35:06]: "We have a roadmap and we make adjustments every year."

11. Artificial Intelligence: Enhancing Productivity with a Human-Centric Approach

Licinia elaborates on TD Bank's AI strategy, focusing on augmenting human capabilities rather than replacing them. Tools like GitHub Copilot are used to enhance developers' productivity by assisting with code understanding and generation, while keeping the creative decision-making firmly in human hands.

• Licinia Rojas [36:18]: "We don't want to replace that part because the human needs to make the final decision."

12. Overcoming Cynicism and Fostering Engagement in Technical Teams

Acknowledging the inherent cynicism within engineering and programming teams, Licinia shares her approach to busting this mindset through pragmatic, outcome-focused communication and by bringing in external experts to provide fresh perspectives.

• Licinia Rojas [28:55]: "It's about being pragmatic. And I always, in every change or transformation is bringing others along and explaining the journey."

13. Advice for Emerging Technology Professionals

Licinia offers valuable advice for those starting their careers in technology:

• Continuous Learning: "Never stop learning. I would tell you that there's always something to learn and really own your career development plan."

• Seek Mentorship and Build Networks: "Seek out mentors. Be part of a network."

• Overcome Self-Doubt: "Don't let self doubt creep in. Make sure you have those mechanisms because failure is part of it."

She emphasizes the importance of deliberate career planning, mentorship, and resilience in overcoming challenges.

14. Closing Thoughts

The interview concludes with expressions of mutual appreciation, underscoring the depth and value of the conversation. Licinia thanks Jim for providing a platform to share her experiences and insights, reinforcing the importance of giving technology leaders a voice.

• Licinia Rojas [42:43]: "Thank you so much Jim."

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Key Takeaways

1. Mentorship and Continuous Learning: Integral to career growth, especially in rapidly evolving fields like technology and cybersecurity.

2. Inclusive Culture: Actively fostering an environment where all team members feel valued and heard enhances innovation and productivity.

3. Strategic Planning: Regularly updating modernization roadmaps ensures alignment with current trends and business objectives.

4. Human-Centric AI: Leveraging AI to augment human capabilities preserves creativity and decision-making while enhancing efficiency.

5. Balancing Security and Innovation: Embedding security within the architectural framework safeguards assets without hindering technological progress.

6. Adaptability: Embracing new technologies and being willing to pivot strategies in response to emerging trends are crucial for sustained success.

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This episode of Cybersecurity Today provides a comprehensive look into the multifaceted role of a Chief Architect in a leading financial institution, offering actionable insights for professionals aiming to excel in technology and cybersecurity leadership roles.

Transcript

[Jim Love]

This is another in a semi random series of fascinating people that I've done interviews with. It's not strictly about cybersecurity, it's about innovation and architecture. But it gives us a window into someone who is at the top of.

[Licinia Rojas]

Their game in areas that we all.

[Jim Love]

Need to know about. I hope you'll enjoy it. And for those of you who are looking for more cybersecurity focus, we will dive back into that in the next few weeks. But for now, here's a fascinating interview with Licinia Rojas from the TD Bank. There's an old saying, if you're always the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And I'm always grateful when I do an interview where I feel exactly that I'm in the right room. If you're someone who's early in their career, I promise you this show is full of authentic, real and practical advice from someone who's at a good point in their career but still has a lot to accomplish. And if you're further along in your career, still worth a listen. Now, I'm not going to put my guest on a pedestal. She's a real person who, like all of us, has learned both good and tough lessons. But I am going to express admiration for what she's learned, what she's achieved and how articulate she is about it and what she will undoubtedly achieve in the future. My guest today is Licinia Rojas, senior vice president and chief architect with TD Banco. I hope you'll enjoy this conversation half as much as I did.

[Licinia Rojas]

Lucidia, great to meet you. Tell me a little bit about yourself. How did you get to where you are today?

That's a long story. I've been on this career for 30 years. A lot is great mentors, believing in myself and being authentic, that helped me to get where I am today. I wouldn't be here without a lot of people. And that starts at home with my mother that believed that when she came to this country with my father, when we came to the US that she was going to bring a better life to us. So it starts there, having that someone believing in you and then you fulfilling on that dream because doors open for you and you have to work hard. There's no shortage of that. You have to actually work hard too.

And I don't think it's an unfair question to ask. As a young woman, there weren't a ton of role models for women or women of color or even, you know, women from who are of Hispanic descent. What Made you so interested in technology. How did you find that?

Actually, it found me. I was in high school in the 80s and as a senior we started getting computer courses. I found it interesting and I liked it, but I did not know what I was going to do with it. I went on to university as an electrical engineering major and in that major you take computer programming classes. I started realizing that I was enjoying more that type of problem solving, working in teams, collaborating. I loved the group projects where we were given a problem we had to work together to solve. That started to open my eyes. I grew up in a neighborhood that was very ethnic, mostly all Cuban immigrants. So I didn't understand the world around me. Honestly, when I went to university, that opened my eyes to a lot of possibilities. School and seeing others in those roles, explaining what could be done and the jobs that were available. And I started really enjoying it. Found my passion.

Yeah. Marvelous. We tend to treat education especially well post secondary education as you should be driving on your career and you should know everything you're going to need to know and get those work skills. And I'm all for work skills. Don't get me wrong. I teach at several universities and I want my students to come out being prepared. But isn't it wonderful when you get to a program that opens your eyes to the possibilities?

Yes, absolutely. And I tell that all the time. Even when we have new talent, like young graduates, joining technology is huge. The realm of specialties. I oftentimes give it as like an analogy to being a doctor. There's so many different fields or the medical field, there's so many different interests. So you need to have an open mind. So when I started out as a programmer, but then I started liking data and I started specializing more in data. And in my career I've been in and out of data a few times. I loved architecture and I also liked delivery. So through my career I've had different roles and every time I tried a different role, it's expanded my mind. I've learned from others that are experts in that space and then I bring that piece to the next role. So I. I think that even when you're out of school, that thirst to learn and to explore continues. I think that's part of the ingredients of being successful in your career and also helping others. Because part of being successful is helping those around you and you having that open mindset that's infectious and that just really creates that culture and the environment for success at any firm, I believe.

Yeah. One of the challenges though, and I've I found this in my own career. I think I've hopefully I've had the courage to deal with it was when you move into something new, you're an expert, one area and then you move into something new and you've got a whole lot to learn. And I think that may frighten people from expanding their careers and that I think we'll both agree at this time as skills are going to change and as the world is going to change so quickly, that need to be able to move out of your comfort zone is really important. How do you deal with that and, and how do you encourage it in others?

I'm not. When you change roles and you're not the expert, it can be scary. I think it's one realizing that those are natural emotions. I think that's okay. I think it starts there. That's being authentic. And it's so important to stay in that zone to understand. But you also bring a lot. So you have to understand when you're coming onto a new role. There's also something that you're bringing and you can't lose sight of that. So you also want to bring your strengths to that team and then learn. And what I do is I always set out a plan, 30, 60, 90 day plan, because I think when you plan who are the stakeholders you need to meet, what material do you need to learn? I think that helps you overcome your fears as well. And also it puts out a plan because you do need to learn. So how do you do that process? So it's the same like if you were in school and you're starting out a course, what is the curriculum? What supplementals may you need? Do you need even a mentor? You might need to go see someone to help you, a tutor in this case. So I like also what's called reverse mentoring. And a lot of times leaders are like, what does that mean? So I go to the expert and I say, I want you to mentor me. So a lot of times think, oh, you're a senior leader, but you don't need mentorship from me. Yes, I'm learning about a new topic. So as an example now with generative AI, I understand machine learning as an example, but the new LLM models and so forth, that's not something I have hands on, but I wanted to. So some of my team was teaching me and explaining to me how it works, prompt engineering, they set up a little class for me and then a few of us came and then what I started doing was bringing down the walls. Others were like, oh, if she can do this, so can I. Like I can learn too, because I was openly asking questions, I was curious and it was in a safe zone. But I think whenever you go into a new role and think about the role that I have, I the chief architect for one of the largest banks in the world. We touch every technology, every capability and I have to rely on experts, learn and do my due diligence and apply that learning over and over again and feel comfortable.

Yeah, I think one of the coolest moments for me was when I was making a shift over to learn about generative AI. And like you, I come up from a data background. So I had some ideas of this and my little sister explained it to me and I thought, how cool is that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing when you ask, I don't know about you, but as I've gone through my career, I've found that people are reluctant to ask people who know things and those people are more than willing to share.

Yes, I would agree. I think it comes down to people don't want to seem like they don't know or have all the answers. And actually I tell people all the time that curiosity, the fact that you want to learn, is actually a strength, it's a superpower. And use it because one, we all know that not everyone has all the answers. I remember many years ago I was in a meeting and one of the engineers came up with a term and everyone in the room was smiling and nodding and I raised my hand. I'm like, what is that term? I've never heard that before. Is that a new thing in API? He's like, oh, I came up with it. I thought it was a good marketing term for the way to explain to others. I actually just made it up. It's really the technical term that you understand. And we were all just smiling and laughing because he would have gone on probably all day, everyone staying quiet and not just asking a simple question of what is that? I've never heard that before. I'm curious, tell me more. And he actually broke it all down. And he explained why he was using a different term because he felt that it was intimidating and he wanted to break it down into smaller pieces to educate others on it and to like make it feel less risky. And so he was giving a little marketing spin to it, which I thought was really like unique and a great way to think about. Sometimes we can with words make people feel intimidated. And he was self aware to say, hey, I'm gonna do a little spin. I know it's not the actual word, but it helps people connect.

Yeah. This is an industry failing. I have to confess, I was close to 50 before I realized I didn't have to know everything. I had a boss who happened to be a woman who looked at me one day and said. Said, I don't know what term you're using. And I went, what? Because the usual thing is, what, you don't know that? And she looked at me and said, I don't have to know everything. I'm asking you to explain it to me. And I felt with little coaching, once I got past that, my career was much more enjoyable.

Yes, I would agree. And I think we have to embrace it. It's part of learning. No, I think that there's the other side of it, which I mentor people that know and don't speak up, and then they hold back. And I. That's happened to me, especially when you're in a room. And early on I wasn't sure, should I speak up, should I say what I think? And then you have to remember that you're there because people want to hear what you think, but sometimes you're not sure. So I would say there's the opposite, that sometimes we don't give also others the room to speak. So I oftentimes in a room, if someone's getting interrupted, I stop the conversation and I try to let someone speak. Or if I see there's an expert in the room, I prompt them to get the space to be able to speak if I think they're holding back because they might be intimidated by the titles in the room. And I think that's something we could do a better job of and continue to push upon. And we do see that more so in women or in other underrepresented groups that they might hold back even though they're the most knowledgeable and expert in the room. So that's something I keep an eye on. I won't say I'm always perfect at it, but with something that's my commitment to just continuously create an inclusive culture. And that is true of experts, even whether. Whether you're underrepresented or not. You're typically underrepresented if you're a true expert. So giving you the floor.

Yeah. One of the things that. That I've. I've tried to do in. In meetings and having learned again from my mentors, was to say that when that quiet person talks, everybody shut up and listen because they talk, because they really have something to say. And I've been coached in the reverse actually. Somebody took me aside one time, said Jim in a meeting, when I ask you what do you think? I don't need to know everything.

You think I got coaching on that once. So once, because I'm detail oriented, I can't help myself. I want to tell you how we're going to create the spaceship. So I make the coaching I got and it was valuable. Answer the question yes or no and then you ask if you want that they want more detail because sometimes it's not the moment. And that was very valuable coaching. I do give that coaching to experts because I've been an expert in a domain and we can go on and on at times and we lose the audience. They almost forgot like what you said at the beginning. And so I do sometimes, depending on where I'm going, I write little post its for myself, pause, breathe, ask if they want more like just reminders because I get excited about technical topics and I could go on.

Yeah, yeah. And I think I was talking to one guest yesterday and she said that when she's advising people on what to do with their career, she says, find something that gets you out of bed in the morning, find you something you're excited about. And that natural excitement leads sometimes to I want to tell you everything I do.

Yes, yes, that is true. And I would agree with her that you want to do something that you're passionate about and excited about. You also want to work somewhere that excites you. I would say culture becomes such an important factor. And I learned that through my career. I've worked, I would say for amazing companies, but I worked for one that the culture wasn't great. I it was a short stint, nine months. And I share this a lot when I mentor others because I moved, I had my first job and I felt like we were getting married, my husband and I, thinking we were wanting to buy a house, wanting to make more money. I was in that place where you were just getting like the standard bumps that you get every year and, and a friend of mine encouraged me, you've been here for five years, start looking out. And it was significant bump. But I didn't do my due diligence on the culture. I didn't understand what it really meant. I just thought, oh, it's a good company. And it didn't have that culture. It was very cutthroat and they really weren't inclusive. It didn't really have that diversity culture. And luckily I learned that lesson very quickly and then ended up where I spent then 23 years of my career, which was in great culture, which is my time at American Express and then now here at TD Bank Group. So I would say that not bad. Out of my four professional companies, I had three that I can say that have been really great in terms of learning a lot and understanding how important culture is and learning all the time about how to make it better, how to leave it better than you found it.

That great philosopher Meatloaf said two out of three ain't bad. So three out of four is good?

I think so. I think so. But we underestimate that, how important that is. I would say be passionate and know where you're working, the culture, the values of the firm, all those things. Because it's undoubtedly when you're working, there's days that are not that great, that don't go your way, but then it's all the other parts that keep you going. It's like your personal life as well. Not everything is always swimmingly going exactly the way you planned.

No. Let's talk about where you are today and tell me about the bank and what you do there.

So one of the roles that I play in, as being the chief architect, I have responsibility over the modernization strategy for the bank. So in that space, I really spend a lot of time with business groups and the technology teams, thinking about the business and technology capabilities that will shape the future of the bank and how we can create the best experiences for our customers and our colleagues. So that's an exciting area to own and drive. It's a multi year roadmap. And of course there's things like generative AI that come in that then I have to reevaluate those roadmaps and plans around. How do we leverage this technology? How do we think about it differently? So it's one of the opportunities that I have to drive forward in the bank. And it's an exciting role to have just because I get to really deep dive into many areas that are new to me as well. I've been here for three years and I feel like I'm always learning something new and learning about the opportunities we have to help our customers and help our colleagues help our customers. So that's one area that I have, and then another would be is I'm very focused on the experience of how can we make it better and easier for them to do their roles in bringing it to life from a technology perspective. So that's an area that I spend a lot of time in thinking about the tools, the automation, the productivity, efficiency that we can drive.

Fantastic we'll come back to that in a second. I grew up in, I grew up in technology. When I was learning about technology as working for a large consulting company, we had architects and the architects were a job you wanted to have. And then architectures fell out of favor. I don't know if it wasn't the same in the US but in Canada it was. Yeah, we've got binders and all that sort of stuff there. There is a movement to bring architecture back to life. Am I right on that?

Yes. I think what happened is I've done architecture in a 30 year career. This is like my fifth time around in an architecture role. So I've done it as an individual contributor and different levels of seniority. And I think what happened was there was a moment that it became ivory tower. Ish. That's tech talk for like lots of talking about things. But how does it actually turn into an outcome? And I think being outcome focused is very important for architecture. Also thinking about the future but laying it out in a way that we can deliver to that future and not something that just seems daunting and like you're never going to achieve it. So it's that outcome focus and being customer focused. Because if you put the customer at the center or if you're solving a problem for a colleague and you put that human at the center, then it becomes very real and tangible. And I think that's what you're seeing now in architecture. I see it with my colleagues of my mentors that I have even actually in other industry. And that's what I think has changed over the last five years. I would tell you that's what's coming back. And then the last thing is, I think also because we see how rapid tech is changing and when you don't have a plan or a roadmap, it's very difficult to pivot. So I think there's also an appreciation for what the role does for you. You lay out the plan and then you understand when something changes, something doesn't go to plan how you're going to pivot. So not having a plan is not wise as well because then it can, you can churn, you can lose time and you can lose your competitive edge or worse just really flounder and really not have what you need for your customers and colleagues. So I think there's an appreciation for that as well. That wasn't maybe as present when technology wasn't changing at the pace that it's changing now.

Yeah, that's a good insight. That maybe the Speed at which technology changes and the need to pivot when we stop talking about five year plans. And I think you have to have, don't get me wrong, I think you have to have three and five year visions. But the idea that you can plot something out, we can follow it step by step for the next three to five years is I think is long past us. My friend John Thorpe once heard two people, two CIOs walking along and he says, on a clear day I can see six weeks.

Yes. What I would say is that's true for your day to day. But a lot of the decisions that we're making or multi year decisions for the bank, so we're making an investment. We want to make sure that investment is giving us the lift that we need and that we're able to drive to the capabilities that we want for our customers and our colleagues. We have solution architects that are driving that six week deliverable that CIO is mentioning. But then there's other architects that are thinking about what is that one to two year plan, how am I also getting ahead and building those technical building blocks that you may not know you need. So I use a lot of times like urban planning, when you're thinking about the electricity, the plumbing, all the services and utilities required, sometimes you have to start building ahead because you know that the rest of the building is coming, but you can't wait because if not you're late. So there is that part of the work as well. And I love those parts of the job as well to get ahead. Because I think that then what happens is you actually speed up delivery, you become more productive and more efficient when you plan out what you don't want to do. And what was happening in the past was we would build things and then hope someone would come. See, that's what gave architecture a bad name. So it was like, oh, we'll just build these things that no one knows what they're going to do with it. So that's why you have to be outcome focused, customer focused, because you're really building to solve problems. And sometimes you are building ahead, but because you know you're going to get there. It's not like something that would be, we don't even have a clue how anyone's going to use this. It's just really out there. Just for the sake of tech, we don't want to do that. But what I would say is I do participate in our innovation. I play very close role to our innovation team. We at td, we call all our innovation work under TD event. But many of us participate that it's company wide, it's an enterprise initiative and we do test things out because we do need to learn and experiment. But now that has a scope, it follows a, a life cycle, it has a framework, a risk framework that we follow and we understand we are doing some experimentation and those investments are smaller. It's for us to understand and then see if it goes somewhere or we're following a trend a tech because we want to stay close but we're not ready to understand how does it fit into our overall plans and how will we use this technology. So there is some, but in the past maybe that there were groups in architecture where they were trying to push that to be quite large and extensive across an organization. And that's I think some of the things that do things often.

Yeah. And I think the idea of, and here's my, here's my thought process on this is that one of the challenges that we have in technology is that we, and you've said correctly, need to be driven by outcomes. I think that's, that has been one of the biggest transformations in technology since I've been in doing this. But we need to be driven by outcomes, but we can only build capabilities. And that making that, bridging that gap has always been a difficult struggle for us. And you seem to have at least worked out a way to link the end outcomes and the end users or I hate the term users, but the customers and the people who use the technology with the technology itself. How do you do that?

You're right about outcomes and I thought that was powerful and you're using it everywhere I go because it really is the North Star. But to now get to how do you make it real? Because that's really hard. Right? We can say things and how do you make it real? You have to define what good looks like. That's hard work. What does good look like? And when you understand what good looks like and then you understand where you are, you start mapping from where you are to what good looks like. And then what's interesting about what good looks like is you have to understand where do you want to be in that spectrum. So there's things that in certain capabilities it's a commodity, you're not going to really differentiate. So you want to have it at a certain level of good. But then there's certain areas where you really can differentiate and stand out from a competitive standpoint. So you're going to invest in a different way and you're going to plot that plan and move along in a different angle so that you can be then the competitor in that space, the one to follow, the one others are going to follow. And I think that's the spirit, at least at TD bank, we've always looked at ways to innovate. And I think you have to understand also where you play and where you don't. When you try to be great at everything, that's challenging. And so you have to understand what good looks like, where you're going to be great and where you're going to be good. And that I think is very important. So that's how I look at it because that's pragmatic. So there's a pragmatic approach to also driving to your outcomes.

And getting back to our earlier talk about this is that you could only do this with people. And I think you've wrapped that in the term human centric innovation. Can you tell me more about how you deal with both of those?

Yes. So for customers is understanding customer needs and what are the. How do we solve what customers are coming in to talk to us at our branches, our stores, what we're hearing from them on their phone. When our, when we have our different associates out on the field talking to our customers and understanding how to be there for them and what's on their mind, how can we bring them to solve problems for them, make coming to Canada a lot easier. As an example, we have a newcomer program for Canada. How do we make that transition easier for them and solves that? What I would have to say must be very difficult, right? To leave behind. I didn't experience that myself. I was born in the United States, but my parents or newcomers in this case to the United States. But we have this program in Canada. So one is really understanding your customer and you could do that through that customer, like feedback sessions that we receive, really being in tune with your customer. And it's the same with colleagues doing the roundtables, listening to them, sitting and understanding how are they using these tools. I, when I, when I joined the firm, I must have met, I think it was over 700 technologists. And I actually out of the 700, I want to say about 70 plus about 10%. I actually sat down and shadowed and worked with them and I wanted to know, talk, take me through your day. What does it look like? How can I help you? And I think that makes an impact. When you're that close, you start to understand and then. But it's not you walking away and thinking you have all the answers. It's asking a question, how do I help? What, what, what's your idea? What would you do? And it's amazing. Like engineers will tell you, they get excited. This is what I would do. And oftentimes I'll have someone drop me a note, an email. They've had a plan and they just need someone to listen to their idea. Later today I have a meeting with someone that had an idea about how to solve a problem in their area. Irritants that we like, little things that irritate.

Can you tell me a little bit more about it? It seems to be a really excellent way to reach employees and get suggestions.

Yes. So what I would say is it's a platform, it's a system. You, it's very easy. So that's the great part of it because if you create a lot of friction, people don't use it. Right. So it's very simple. They put in their idea and then this idea is reviewed and many of the ideas that are submitted then that's why people get excited, are actually actioned. So they go to the different teams. Since we're in agile teams, the different product owners will look at the ideas being submitted and say, oh, here's some ideas of things we could solve for. Let's put it into our backlog, let's put it into the next PI, into the sprints. Because we have this continuous improvement culture. It helps us action. I've been on other instances where you have ideas and they just sit there and then people stop giving them to you because they're like nothing happens. So it's about actioning now if you don't action the idea, giving that feedback on the why. So as an example, it could be we've looked at that idea in the past and we at this time can't make that change because that change would need to be with outside third party. And so we will bring it up to them. So we at this time we're not in control of that change as an example, because it's with the tool you're seeing, it's actually a third party tool. But we will bring that to their attention because obviously we're a customer of theirs, but we might not be able to action it as in the speed that maybe the colleague was looking for. So I think that two way conversation is also very important. And then we also have a patent program as well and we celebrate our inventors. So I think also reward and recognition and people with the top ideas and patents are celebrated throughout the company. So there's different Reward and recognition. So it's actioning, making it real, rewarding and recognizing. So I think it's that combination that has made it successful.

I wanted to ask you one of the questions I wrote down. I don't I do this conversationally, but I do try to write some questions that I was going to ask you about how you overcome the cynicism that runs through engineers and programmers and technical people. But I think you may have answered that. But it is. We are a cynical group. And I think that's. How do you bust past that when you meet someone?

Yes, I'm part of that crew. I'm not going to say I have a problem with impatience. Things should always go faster. I always want more. But I view that as also a great trait in the role that I bring. Right. You would want someone that has some level of impatience in this role. But at the same time, it's about being pragmatic. And I always, in every change or transformation is bringing others along and explaining the journey. Just recently I had my leadership team. So these are all what we refer to as our distinguished level architects as well as my executives in the organization. We met and I took them through a journey of the last three years. All that we've accomplished and some of the roadblocks we've also hit and overcome. And then I laid out what the next three years look and that we needed to one, celebrate everything for the last three years. But now as everything in change and in transformation, the next three years, there's a lot. And how are we going to go about it? How do we now continue to rise to that occasion? And I think it's about taking them through it. And what I did was I leverage a lot an outside group. I have a coach for many years and I was telling him about what I was doing and we brought an expert to talk us through. How were we going to talk about the next part of the agenda? How are we going to explain the problem, make it relevant? And it was a hit, which I was shocked. I was actually a little nervous. I'm not going to tell EJ about because you, as you mentioned, this crowd could be a tough crowd. They loved it. They want us, they want that expert to come back because we brought an expert. So expert to expert, speaking about how you go about this. And I think what happened was it was a pragmatic approach. It was real. It was outcomes focused. You could action it tomorrow. And I think that's what happens. That's how you address it. You have to bring others along. You have to explain history to some extent, but give people the vision and the plan and then the tools, and then acknowledge that you need help. And that's what I was doing in that moment. I was showing them the help I received. I was showing them also that I need help as well. And I was bringing that help to them to scale, because it's about. My role is to scale and to drive change at another level. And I need them to be part of that with me. And I. My job is to empower them and enable them to make that happen.

I would be totally remiss if I had a head architect on the program and didn't ask what technology you're excited about. But I want to divide this into two areas because we'll immediately go into AI, what are the other technologies that you're finding really exciting and to have real possibilities.

So I would say that I could see blockchain and crypto making its way back after its flounder with all that happened in terms of ethics in that space. I think that we're going to see that come back. I think it's going to be interesting to see its different forms and shapes, especially in the payment industry. So I'm watching that very closely. A second one I would say is a lot of folks were not too excited about Metaverse and leveraging type of technology for learning, for thinking about how people might want to interact with each other. I think there's going to be different applications. We see it already and coming into the corporate world because we see it in the world around us in the consumer sense. But in the corporate world, I think that's going to show itself in a different way as we want to create scenarios that feel very real to people. And we also have the reality of people are learning in different modalities now in universities that we. We're not maybe in different generations. So we want to apply that there.

We've for the longest time detached security from architecture. And I think that was something that sort of happened with these independent groups. Are there yet in a controlled industry or in an industry where you take care of people's money, security must be top of mind. How do you keep that front of mind and from not keeping you from making progress? If you understand my question, there's two elements. Security can be an excuse to not do anything. But on the other hand, not building security in from the start can be one of the biggest mistakes you make. How do you deal with that?

Yes. So first you have to understand that, and this is our objectives is always secure. And obviously being stable, having all those functions working is the most important. So you can't ever lose sight of that even with your own. Our own excitement of innovation. It can never be beyond the risk that we want to take. Right. So everything always has to be with. Within your risk appetite. So always you want to be secure. But how you solve that problem is you automate and you bring in the defenses, the layers of defense that are needed in an automated way. I have the responsibility of security architecture for the firm. So in my architecture domain, I have the responsibilities for the application, the data, the security, and the infrastructure architecture. So I think that has been a wise decision at TD bank, because in many places it's fragmented. So you don't see how it all comes together because they all interlocked with one another. They work together. And so automation is our friend here. You're doing it within your risk appetite, understanding that change. And you're bringing things to your customer and colleagues in a way that you know is also part of your culture and value system.

I did read a great survey the other day. It was statistically relevant. It was done well for a good research group. That said there is a move, yes, we have to respect costs and efficiency, but there's a move to think about investment more in the executive mindset now. And I think that's a welcome move.

Yes, I would say. And that goes back to where our conversation has started about these roadmaps and visions. Right. I have the modernization roadmap for the firm. So we have a roadmap and we make adjustments every year. We look at where are we, how are we going against that roadmap, what's changed, what's different? And that's very important to be methodical around your investments. Having that conversation with our, your finance team, your risk teams. Right. It's not just a technology conversation. You want to talk to the other experts as well and have an outlook. So I think you're seeing more and more of that happening back to how fast things are changing. It's hard if you don't know where you are to change or to pivot. So always knowing where you are is also just as important as knowing where you're going. Those two things are very important.

Yeah, yeah. Not like get my podcaster's club card taken away if I don't ask about AI, But I'm going to try and ask an intelligent question about AI from the point of view of looking at it where you are, large corporation and. Or any business that's looking at it. What are the things that we should be thinking about in terms of AI? What should we be. How should we be looking at this? As people in technology?

Yeah. For us at the AI and the way we're thinking about AI is how do we help the productivity of our customers and colleagues? So the human in the loop. So in this case, the human in the loop is our colleague. How do we help them be more productive? How do we help them be more efficient? So then they're helping our customers or helping other colleagues. But it's really important to keep that connection with the human. And a lot of our work is around that in those spaces. As I think you were there for us on our tech, our TD Tech day. And that is core to our strategy and to our approach and to the areas that we're looking at for. In my area, I've been piloting and working with GitHub copilot around how engineers can use that tool, specifically around helping them with understanding code. It helps you encode that you didn't write or maybe, maybe wasn't written, as well as maybe in the. In the way that now today we write code. Right. Some code has been around for 30 years. It can help a young developer think about a young developer that hasn't seen this type of code before and now can then take a look and understand what's happening. And it helps them, but it doesn't give them all the answers, but it helps them and makes them more productive. It also helps with some of the tasks that you have to do as an engineer, like unit test code coverage, used to, as an engineer, have to do the rest because there's something about the creativity that people lose a side of that. The AI is there to help you and augment you, but there's a part of the human creative sense that still is the human mind. We haven't figured it all out yet. And maybe AI will progress. Where we'll see that in our lifetime, potentially, I don't know. But right now, what I would tell you is we don't want to replace that part because the human needs to make the final decision. And so that's how we've been applying AI. And I think that also helps us think through what are the real problems we need to solve. And a lot of it is making things easier to do, making it faster and easier to do. And that really at the center of that is our colleagues and how our customers benefit from that is they're getting answers faster, much more comprehensive, maybe like not maybe in pieces. So there's different ways that can show up to a customer when we provide that augmentation to the, to our colleagues.

Wow. Somewhere at a desk, working somewhere in our listening audience is, is Lacinia from 20 years, 30 years ago. And they're sitting there and thinking what should I do for my career? What's your advice to the younger people who are coming up through the technology industry today?

Never stop learning. I would tell you that there's always something to learn and really own your career development plan. It's, I would say that is very important. There's always something you want to learn and you have to decide how deep you want to go. Most people think that moving around a lot is good and I would say yes, there is something to. I've done a lot of lateral moves but I've also spent time and roles 3, 4, 5 years to develop the expertise. So there is something to that as well. So you have to decide what is this role? To me I want to be a payments expert. I need to stay three to five years because you have to appreciate how big the space is and I want to be a deep expert. So number one is you're going to learn and you're going to create that plan for yourself. And I always create the plan for the job I want next. The plan is maybe 25, 30% about my current job and the rest is about where do I want to go next because it's about pushing myself. So that's that piece of advice. And the second is mentorship. Seek out mentors. Be part of a network. But most corporations have employee networks as well. Join them, build your network. You learn a lot from others. You learn from others that have different backgrounds from you experiences. And mentorship is good because that gives you also that safe zone where you could ask questions, maybe also prepare you for a presentation you're going to give or you're going to do a stand up, you're going to show your code, you're going to meet with a product owner maybe for the first time as an engineer and that mentor can help you. And sometimes your mentors are not always senior leaders. It could be the most technical person on your pod, on your agile team, someone on another team, it could be a product owner. Think outside the box is what I would say because all of those individuals will, will add to your career. And then what I would say is don't let self doubt creep in. That's usually we limit ourselves, usually we do a better job than anyone else can do in limiting yourself and do when that self doubt starts to creep in because it always does. That's when the mentors and those around you get you out of that and you are back on track. So make sure you have those mechanisms because failure is part of it. Failure gives you growth. And I've grown and I share my stories all the time and those people around me are still with me today and they help me get back on track.

The mark of a great conversation is when you could go on for another half an hour or another hour. It has been such a thrill meeting you. Thank you so much.

Thank you Jim. I feel the same way. And thank you for having me and thank you for bringing this all to life and to your audience. I really want to thank you for bringing tech and people like myself that giving us a voice out there. So thank you so much Jim.

[Jim Love]

And that's our show. Love to hear from you about this show or any other aspect of the podcast. A number of you have connected with me, either emailing me@editorialtechnews. Or on LinkedIn. And as I've said, I rely on all of you out there to keep me in touch with the real world.

[Licinia Rojas]

Thanks for tuning in.

[Jim Love]

You have busy lives and lots to do with your time and you chose.

[Licinia Rojas]

To spend it with us. We appreciate it. I'm your host, Jim Love. Have a great weekend.