Podcast Summary: "The Secret CISO: Navigating the Human and Technical Challenges in Cybersecurity"

Released on June 14, 2025 | Cybersecurity Today | Host: Jim Love

Introduction

In the episode titled "The Secret CISO: Navigating the Human and Technical Challenges in Cybersecurity," host Jim Love engages in an insightful conversation with seasoned cybersecurity professionals John Pinard, Priya Mali, and Mohsen. The discussion delves into their diverse career paths, the multifaceted challenges in today's cybersecurity landscape, and the evolving role of CISOs in managing both technical and human aspects within organizations.

Guest Introductions

Jim Love opens the episode by setting a relaxed, conversational tone, emphasizing that the show aims to explore the personal and professional lives of CISOs rather than conducting a formal interview.

• John Pinard
  Timestamp: [00:37]
  John introduces himself as the Vice President of IT Operations, Infrastructure, and Cybersecurity for a financial institution in Toronto. With nearly 40 years in the IT industry, John has navigated various roles across different sectors, emphasizing the importance of collaboration and communication in his leadership journey.

• Priya Mali
  Timestamp: [00:55]
  Priya presents herself as the Chief Security Officer (CSO) at Sheridan College in Ontario, Canada. She boasts over 20 years of experience in cybersecurity, privacy, risk management, compliance, and AI governance. Priya highlights her global exposure, having worked in six countries, and shares personal interests, including writing poetry and wildlife conservation.

• Mohsen
  Timestamp: [06:40]
  Mohsen identifies himself as a Director of Cyber Defense in the financial sector with 25 years in IT. His career spans various industries, including entertainment and consulting, and he has contributed to establishing cybersecurity standards within the motion picture industry. Mohsen underscores the importance of strategic thinking and community engagement in his role.

Career Paths into Cybersecurity

The guests share their unique journeys into the cybersecurity field, highlighting non-linear paths and the importance of adapting to emerging technological landscapes.

• Priya Mali
  Timestamp: [02:15]
  Priya discusses her transition from software development to cybersecurity, motivated by a desire to intertwine technology with business and embrace new challenges. Her education includes an engineering degree followed by an MBA, leading to roles in Big Four consulting firms and extensive international experience.

• Mohsen
  Timestamp: [11:29]
  Mohsen reflects on his technical background in engineering and his passion for building electronics, which naturally led him to IT operations. His pivotal role in transitioning from analog to digital cinema marked his entry into cybersecurity, aiming to protect valuable data from piracy and cyber threats.

• John Pinard
  Timestamp: [13:23]
  John shares his extensive career starting as a programmer, moving through various industries such as pharmaceuticals, healthcare, and nonprofit sectors. He emphasizes being self-taught in cybersecurity, learning firsthand from incidents like ransomware attacks that underscore the field's evolving nature.

Current Challenges in Cybersecurity

The conversation shifts to identifying and addressing the top challenges faced by today's cybersecurity professionals.

• AI as Both a Threat and a Tool
  Mohsen, [16:15]
  "AI both being as a threat and also as a friendly tool. So that's a big challenge that is in front of us..."

• SOC Operations Fatigue
  Mohsen, [16:15]
  "There is a lot of burnout, there is a bit of a shortage of the talents..."

• Platform Consolidation
  Mohsen, [16:15]
  "Many of us through the work that they have done... this is becoming a bit of a challenge for everybody..."

• Hyper-Connected World and Expanded Attack Surface
  Priya, [18:28]
  "Our attack surface just exploded. So that is one top challenge."

• Geopolitical Tensions and Cyber Resiliency
  Priya, [18:28]
  "We need to build our immunity, right? Like it's not a matter of if, but when."

• Internal Threats and Human Error
  John, [21:20]
  "People don't think enough... it's such a small thing, but I have to tell you, it was the highlight of my week."

Priya and John expand on these challenges, discussing the need for cyber resiliency, strategic thinking, and the importance of human factors in cybersecurity.

Managing People and Team Dynamics

The discussion highlights the critical role of leadership and people management in cybersecurity teams.

• Servant Leadership and Team Empowerment
  Priya, [25:37]
  "My style is... servant leadership, where I am there to serve the team and be that enabler."

• Understanding Individual Needs and Preferences
  Priya, [25:37]
  "I understand the person as a human being, right. More than what they bring to the organization."

• Cultivating Strategic Thinkers
  John, [30:12]
  "They have to be a good character fit... are they a good character fit? Are they going to fit in well with the people..."

• Motivating Teams to Prevent Burnout
  John, [30:12]
  "I have a few of them that I actually call them on the weekends... they need to have their own time outside of work."

The guests emphasize the importance of building strong, empathetic relationships within teams, fostering a supportive environment, and ensuring that team members feel valued and understood.

Role of Organizational Psychology

Exploring the intersection between cybersecurity leadership and organizational psychology, the guests discuss strategies to enhance team dynamics and overall productivity.

• Mohsen's Perspective
  Timestamp: [34:31]
  "There is so a lot of nuances in between. How you can actually get a more productive environment in place..."

• Facilitating Effective Communication
  Mohsen, [34:31]
  "We have to hire psychologists to actually come... put everything on the table and we have to be a little bit candid about each other."

• Building Productive Team Chemistry
  Mohsen, [34:31]
  "So I think all that has a place in this fast-paced environment that we live today."

The incorporation of organizational psychology principles helps in addressing interpersonal friction, enhancing communication, and fostering a collaborative work environment.

Influencing Behavior and Cultivating a Security Culture

The guests discuss methods to influence behavior and build a robust security culture within organizations.

• Education and Awareness Training
  Priya, [39:11]
  "These are the different types of social engineering attacks. Sextortion is a thing... deepfake scams... stay vigilant."

• Developing Policies and Enforcing Controls
  Priya, [39:11]
  "We have policies like the acceptable use policy and information security policy."

• Business Enabler Approach
  Priya, [39:11]
  "We're business enablers. When they’re looking at a new solution... they're going to consult you."

By tailoring training to different audience segments and emphasizing the 'why' behind security measures, the guests advocate for a proactive and integrated approach to cultivating a security-conscious culture.

Dealing with Cybersecurity Tools Overload

Addressing the overwhelming number of cybersecurity tools available, the guests share strategies to manage and streamline tool usage effectively.

• Mohsen's Strategy
  Timestamp: [45:03]
  "Making sense of the diverse number of tools... finding synergies and consolidating existing tools."

• Avoiding Redundancy and Maximizing Utilization
  Mohsen, [45:03]
  "We only use two of the 10 features they have and the rest of it we just leave for who knows when."

• Priya's Approach
  Timestamp: [47:33]
  "Making the best use of our existing in-house tools... understanding crown jewels and controlling failures."

• John's Perspective
  Timestamp: [49:41]
  "Focus on making sure that you're secure rather than making sure that you've got the latest and greatest of all the new toys."

The emphasis lies in optimizing current toolsets, identifying essential functionalities, and resisting the temptation to continuously adopt new tools without assessing their true value and fit within existing systems.

Final Thoughts and Conclusion

As the episode draws to a close, the guests express their commitment to continuous learning, strategic thinking, and fostering a supportive team environment to navigate the ever-evolving cybersecurity landscape. Jim Love wraps up by highlighting the intention to explore AI's impact on cybersecurity in a future episode, acknowledging the depth and breadth of the topics discussed.

Notable Quotes

• Priya Mali
  [18:28]: "Our attack surface just exploded. So that is one top challenge."

• John Pinard
  [21:20]: "People don't think enough... it's such a small thing, but I have to tell you, it was the highlight of my week."

• Mohsen
  [34:31]: "We have to hire psychologists to actually come... put everything on the table and we have to be a little bit candid about each other."

• Priya Mali
  [39:11]: "When in doubt, they want to reach out to you."

Conclusion

This episode of "Cybersecurity Today" provides a comprehensive exploration of the intricate balance between technical prowess and human-centric leadership in the field of cybersecurity. Through the shared experiences and insights of John Pinard, Priya Mali, and Mohsen, listeners gain valuable perspectives on tackling contemporary challenges, fostering resilient teams, and building a proactive security culture within organizations.