Tim Sills (5:22)

I was just at a satellite security conference and obviously topic of concern there, right is just the congestion, right and all the debris that's being tracked and let alone the future launches that are expected. And so certainly I was pointing people to the fatcat.com site which can be mesmerizing but also too right just identifies just how severe the SIT is.

Araz Faizi (5:46)

We've seen a tremendous growth in number of users and majority of that has been organic. We don't run any ads or anything like that. But it's been hockey stick growth. So much so that we had to start rethinking Sagat and see new future for it. So you'll hear a lot more early next year and going forward from Khan, where sadgat will grow into something a lot bigger than what it is today.

Tim Sills (6:14)

Yeah. And certainly. Right. I mean, that's where the advantage here is with AWS and the scalability. Right. And being able to do that on demand. I know we've talked about that in the past and having that capability certainly as you fuse the data from all these different resources. So it definitely provides a very sustainable platform.

Araz Faizi (6:32)

Yeah, 100%. And actually, let me tell the insider story of SatGad. Our internal team was frustrated by the fact that you had to go to like 4, 5, 6, 10 different websites and web pages and data sources to compile the data that you needed. So, for example, I want to see who the satellite belongs to. Sometimes I have to go to three different sources to figure that out. I wanted to see what the historical data was for this. And I had to go and download data from multiple sources to use them. One person on the team in fact, decided that he was going to solve the problem for us. So he started building on this thing and it started to look really nice and feel really nice. So at some point we decided that, look, let's just open it up to the public and see what we will get. And we just did a couple of. I think all we did was one interview and then one or two LinkedIn posts, and within a few weeks we were serving thousands of customers. And that was kind of one of those moments where we said, huh, there's something there. And yeah, it's been just massive growth since then.

Tim Sills (7:44)

I actually remember the day when you told me you went live and you shared the link. And I think I spent the next two hours at least clicking through like the 3D global view and looking at all the objects and just it's mesmerizing to see all the data and all the artifacts that are in flight.

Araz Faizi (8:01)

I'll add something to that. So what we realized is that satcad is serving a really wide range of different audiences. You can be just a space enthusiast to go and see where the ISS is or when. When's the next time ISIS going to pass over my head? Or oh, I heard about this orbital debriefing. Let me go see what, you know, how it looks or what is it all the way to someone who is a seasoned satellite operator and they want to go and look at their competitor's constellation and see what kind of Maneuvers, they have been performing just as a comp and telco. So you have everything in there. You have reporters who go in and get the data they need. You have government folks. We've had several government agencies come to us and say, hey, this looks great. Can we get this and that? So that's not something that we expected. But you can come to sadcat with a different goal in mind and you'll have a completely different experience from another type of Persona who comes in and looks for that. And that's what we're trying to kind of fine tune to deliver better experience to different Personas more properly.

Maria Varmazes (9:08)

Fantastic. Going from that aha moment to scale, that had to have been quite a challenge, especially so quickly. Can you walk me through how that went?

Araz Faizi (9:18)

Well, one thing I can tell you is that generally the engineering side of things and scalability and security, none of that is an issue. Because when you build your infrastructure, when you build your system in an infrastructure that's scalable and all that, so that's something that you don't have to worry about. So most of our effort have gone into trying to figure out what would be the next thing on SatCat from a, from a product perspective, from the capabilities perspective. In reality, it's kind of changed the face of our company. It was very day and night kind of difference for me. You know, when I, when I used to go to events and meet, meet folks and talk to people, they would recognize the company, what we do, but it would be real if they we're able to name all the products that we had. Right. But now if I have the same kind of interaction with folks, one of the first things that they mention is satcat. They're like, oh, I did this thing on Sat was cool. Oh, how's SatCat coming? Or oh, what's the next thing on SatCat? So kind of SatCat has become the new brand for the company per se. So yeah, we've made quite a bit of shift in the direction of the company based on that experience and that learning. So obviously we've put more efforts, engineering efforts, more product efforts into Sat Cat and hopefully it'll pay out.

Maria Varmazes (10:36)

You mentioned all those different customer Personas, all the different, different use cases. I imagine for many of them, especially government users, security is a high priority. Can you walk me through some of that?

Araz Faizi (10:47)

Yeah, absolutely. So as a space company, we are serving customers that security is paramount to their daily operations. I mean, it applies to most every industry in a. Cybersecurity is an extremely critical thing. And my previous company wasn't cybersecurity. So obviously from day one, we take that very seriously. What we have done is that obviously we work very closely with AWS team to make sure that we follow the best practices. Back in the day, I remember we had to worry about physical security of the servers, we had to worry about remoting into servers and keeping them safe. But today none of that is an issue because when you're building on aws, all of that is handled for you and you have a lot less to worry about and your attack surface is much, much smaller and it's a lot more manageable than before. And obviously when you're working with aws, you have access to different types of offerings. So for commercial customers, we leverage commercial cloud and that's obviously available globally. For our government customers who have certain requirements, we use Gov cloud and obviously the security levels are different there. Again, working with the team at aws, it's been very helpful. Not only the infrastructure that we get, and this is something that I tell people is that our experience has been that it's not just a tech stack that we get, we really get access to a ton of other resources around that. So if I have a question, I can reach out to Tim, he'll be very quick to respond. If I have a policy question, I have access to folks that I can go at AWS ask and I can get an answer there. If I need to get referral to a, you know, one of the verified partners, we are a verified partner on the marketplace, but if I need a certain capability, I can, you know, I can go to my point of contacts and ask for introductions. And generally it's been a really positive experience, kind of cutting through a lot of extra effort that we would have done if you didn't have these connections or the support.

Tim Sills (12:50)

To Araz's point though, right. We've worked with them and the team has been quick to understand as well. And they've recognized early on, right. That how using AWS and accelerate their path to compliance and so with the various security services and so without going into great detail of it though, but they've adopted them and so they know that they have a strong security posture and strengthened that. And again, it aligns with their scalability requirements as well. Right. So that way they're not as they scale out, that security maintains, that posture maintains as well. And so. And then as well too, Roz mentioned, I remember again when we talked about the need to address and support those government clients and customers where the need to move into govcloud and I remember working with them as they started us standing up that environment and we did the same thing where we worked to enable respective services and align with security and compliance and so that they're positioned for future needs as well as they come along.

Maria Varmazes (13:50)

We've been mentioning the word scale a lot and Araz, I'm so curious to get your thoughts. Scale is when we think about the fast, fast growing number of satellites going into different orbits. I mean that number is just exploding. But also the complexity of the capability of the satellites going into different orbits. That's gotta make your job so much more interesting on a whole bunch of different levels. I'm so curious to get your thoughts about, you know, how, how you all are sort of getting a handle on all these different increasing capabilities that are happening in orbits and you know, how you're going to be rising to meet all that.

Araz Faizi (14:27)

I see two types of kind of scalability problems. One is that you have this steady growth, even though it's a really explosive growth in number of assets and which, you know, kind of increases the complexity of operations by another order of magnitude. That's kind of slow, right? You can see that coming. You have time, you have days, you have weeks, you can adjust. So that's something that most industries are facing where you have some sort of a growth and you have to adapt as you go. But one thing that is, that also applies to us is kind of like these bursting activities. So what I mean by that is if you have an operational system like ours that is mission critical, so if you have a conjunction event, if you have a potential collision in a couple hours, you need to do something about it right then and there. That oh, we have the maintenance and we're going to down for three hours is not acceptable. And certain things could happen in the industry that could result in a burst of activity. So no one cares if your system is available when nothing is happening. If you have a mission operation, if a critical system that's in the path of your, in your current path of operations, you expect that system to be available when you need it. And if, and if you have a situation where a whole bunch of operators and end users need service right then and there, it's important for you to be available then and there so that, so you're doing something right. If you, if you can handle that and fix that problem, it's much bigger problem than just being available on a calm day. And we're always prepared for that day because that day could potentially come. So, you know, we had we had a breakup in, in space a few weeks ago. I think at this point it was, was intel sat, satellite, engineer, station orbit that had unexpected disassembly, created, you know, ton of debris and, and so we have all these operators that, that are concerned about it. You, you want to rush to catalog those objects, perform conjunction assessment, make sure that they don't pose a risk to your satellites. If so, do something about it. Now something that's nice about geostationary orbit is things move slowly relative to each other. So you have time and generally in most cases the interactions are with low relative velocities. These things are kind of like flying around each other or floating around each other. But it's a completely different story in leo. In LEO you don't have that luxury. And in Geo, you know, if something happened, a catastrophic event like the one that we had happens, it might threaten a smaller number of assets in the short term. But when we have events like that in leo, all of a sudden it could potentially affect thousands of satellites within hours. So you know, we have to be prepared for moments like that. We have to make sure that our services are available under extremely heavy loads that would have been impossible before aws. It wasn't feasible for you to secure enough infrastructure for just in case moment. But when you have access to, you know, practically unlimited resources of all sorts and they're available to you within seconds, then actually you can develop an infrastructure that you can guarantee that will be available when it is actually needed.

Tim Sills (17:55)

Yeah, and since those again, these are great times when we were working with the team to have, I think Araz mentioned earlier, like availability zones. And so at AWS we have got regions and within those regions, availability zones. And so really this is a resilience. And so having the ability to have workloads that are spread across those availability zones and data centers in those availability zones. And so what he's really referring to is the ability to, you know, not only scale out on demand and for, you know, to support customer needs, but as well as too protecting that such that again those highly sensitive moments where you need to be able to quickly respond. And certainly in leo, again this conference I was just at recently, it was a topic of discussion because of the expectation of just the amount of new launches, new satellites that'll be going up and thousands and thousands more in the coming years as well. Right. So the potential for impact in conjunctions is very high.

Araz Faizi (18:57)

Yeah.

Maria Varmazes (18:57)

And getting eyes on LEO and getting a really good understanding, situational awareness understanding in LEO is a challenge that Comes up a lot. Many people will say I'm very confident about what's going on in geo, but Leo, I really don't have a sense of it. So it's a fascinating challenge, it's a fascinating opportunity to use that old bifurcation there. I'm so curious about how automation plays in to the vision of what you all are doing. Araz, can you talk to me a little bit about that?

Araz Faizi (19:25)

Absolutely. Automation autonomy is at the core of what we do. Again, going back in time a little bit when we had just under 1,000 operational satellites in orbit, you had operators that were very well funded. They had staff, their operations team, a bunch of PhDs and seasoned space operators and have shifts and all that and, and had ample time to respond to situations if they ever happened. Now it's a very different story today. Now we have a lot more operators, they are much smaller because now you can just raise a few million dollars, develop your satellite, put in a long ride share mission, get it to orbit and operate it. First of all, their time to action is much shorter now because of the congestion in lower Earth orbit. And also it really doesn't make sense for all these hundreds of hundreds of operators that are launching their constellations to rebuild the same technology over and over. And I think there are certain parts of the space operations that we've done for so long that really we have it down. We really know how to do these things. And our approach has been that let's use automation and let's use software to automate as much as possible. So if you're a satellite operator, just like you can go to a satellite manufacturer and get them to develop your satellite for you and then you have an integrator, put it in a ride share mission and launch it just like that. You should be able to get access to quality software and automated tools that can operate, take care of the majority of the things that human beings are in the loop today and taking care of it. So we did that with collision avoidance, we've done that with conjunction assessment, automatic orbit keeping maneuvers, space traffic coordination, and we're kind of expanding that to cover more functionalities and more capabilities. We believe that if you're a satellite operator, you should be able to focus on what your mission is and not to have to worry about all these other things. That software can do it for you and automation can do it for you. So we're kind of taking human out of the loop and we're putting human on the loop so they can supervise the processes instead of manually pushing buttons and manually doing things as much as possible.

Tim Sills (21:54)

And I just want to add on to that too. I mean we've got a lot of customers in aerospace and satellite that we work with and so a lot of them. So Roz, just mentioning how they're really, there's a. They're focused on mission operations, right. What they're trying to deliver to their customers. And we like to say to aws, right, let's remove the undifferentiated heavy lifting and in this case here, providing servers and architecture and services that arise and can leverages. But on top of that, for these satellite operators as well that are focused on their missions, they lean on Kaon for this capability. Right. Where they're not having to focus on those aspects that are certainly very significant for operations, but they can focus on the solution for their customers. But when it comes to, you know, the environment and managing their constellation. Right. This is one of the things that, you know, just as we provide these services to KON to enable their capabilities, KON in turn provides those capabilities, you know, to their customers as well.

Araz Faizi (22:59)

Yeah, I'll give an example. So let's say you are a, you're a company and your focus is. I'm just going to make it up. Edge computing in space. Do you really have to put together a team to figure out how to do early orbit phase of the mission, how to optimally design orbit raising maneuvers and missions, how to deal with conjunction on a daily basis, how to go through all these hundreds of notifications that you really don't have to worry about? So I think the answer is no. All of that can be handled by software for the most part. The vast majority of it can be handled. So as a company, as a team, you can actually focus on what you started the company to do, which is edge computing in space. Focus on that and don't worry about all these other things that can be solved by software and automation.

Maria Varmazes (23:48)

It's a fantastic point. It's an efficiency truly at the end of the day and yeah, let humans do what humans do best. Exactly. I love that. Any parting thoughts? We want to leave the audience with.

Araz Faizi (23:59)

I guess what we are doing here, what we see our mission as an enabler of growth. We're working day and night to solve problems that we believe that are coming up and we're going to leverage satgat platform to solve all of those problems. So yeah, stay tuned on satgat.

Maria Varmazes (24:17)

Very cool. Thank you. Tim, same question to you. Any parting thoughts that you want to leave the audience with?

Tim Sills (24:22)

Well, I can't wait. I mean, I look forward to what Kahan's going to be able to do and develop. And just as he had said, he'll be an enabler for his customers, will be an enabler for him to be able to provide those services and capabilities. And so again, looking forward to it as well. And we'll be monitoring SAGCAT to see the new developments.

Araz Faizi (24:42)

Thank you for being a great partner and thank you for enabling us to enable the space industry to realize its full potential when it comes to growth.

Maria Varmazes (25:00)

And that's it for AWS in Orbit, Data Automation and Space Domain Awareness with Khan Space. A special thanks to Araz Faizy and Tim Sills for joining us today. For additional resources from this episode and for more episodes in the AWS in Orbit series, check out our show notes@space.n2k.com AWS this episode was produced by Alice Carruth and powered by aws. Our AWS producer is Lara Barber. Our associate producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Elliot Peltzman and Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ivan. Our executive editor is Brandon Karpf. Simone Petrella is our president. Peter Kilpe is our publisher and I'm your host, Maria Varmazes. Thanks for listening. See you next.