Brandon Karp (13:36)

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Narrator/Host (14:09)

Brandon Karp is friend of the show, founder of the T Minus Space Daily Podcast, and a cyber security expert. He recently sat down with T Minus host Maria Vermazes to connect the dots and stump the host for this month's Space and Cybersecurity segment.

Brandon Karp (14:26)

I'm gonna try to convince you and all of your listeners that these three seemingly unrelated articles having to do with the space industry from the last 10 days will represent a massive shift of wealth from Singapore to Greenland in the next 10 years.

Dave Bittner (14:42)

Okay listeners, I just want you to know that is also all I know. I know nothing behind the scenes here. So what articles are we talking about? Brandon, let's Talk.

Brandon Karp (14:51)

All right, cool. So I'll start with the headlines from these articles. Voyager Technologies makes investment into AI software company Latent AI ksat, which is Kongsberg Satellite Services, plans to take its ground network to space with hypersatellites in Leo. Elyria reports milestones with tight beam laser communications.

Dave Bittner (15:15)

Okay, so Voyager Tech investment in Latent AI KSAT plans ground network with hypersatellites in Leo and Elyria's milestones with tight beam laser comms. Okay, I'm stumped. Aside from these are all headlines I know that we have covered on T minus Space Daily, I have absolutely no idea what else would be the common thread here. So regale me Brandon, because I'm so.

Brandon Karp (15:37)

What is the common thread between these three things which are seemingly unrelated and all from the last 10 days? Yes, and my argument is that these developments, which are really just representative of a number of developments over the last few years, represents meaningful steps towards moving core Internet backbone traffic from terrestrial fiber lines to space based architectures.

Dave Bittner (16:03)

Introduce me to where and how Singapore and Greenland come into play here on that thesis.

Brandon Karp (16:09)

We'll get there. Let's start with the technology developments themselves in my mind, right? This idea of shifting core Internet backbone traffic from terrestrial fiber lines to space based architectures really requires developments in three core technology areas, right? The first being orbital data centers. Right, Data centers in space being able to process data in situ in low Earth orbit. Second is actually moving meaningful software technologies and that's going to come with investments in edge AI, because edge AI is really just driving increased compute power. With that increased compute power investment which we're trying to send to low Earth orbit, which we've seen with this Voyager Technologies investment is going to have to come developments in mostly like heat transfer technologies and power generation technologies, because both Those systems, the GPUs, the CPUs, generate tremendous amounts of heat and require tremendous amounts of power. And so Voyager's investments in these types of companies, and there's a number of others as well, will drive rapid changes and investment in creation of heat transfer technologies and power generation technologies in space. Now, the third area that is required to move meaningful amounts of Internet traffic from terrestrial systems to space systems is high speed optical laser communications. That is the most critical enabling technology.

Dave Bittner (17:32)

Okay, I'm starting to see this thread up here and I'm just thinking, okay, I can think of recent missions for a lot of these. Like there's a mission going to the ISS just recently about orbital data centers, which I was really amped about.

Brandon Karp (17:43)

So, and I'm glad you brought up the ISS testbed as well, because that's a partnership between Axiom Space and Red Hat, Red Hat being the massive Linux foundation organization. And I didn't choose that one because that was originally announced a few months ago. And I wanted to pick things that were just announced in the last 10 days. But you're right, that is going up like this week or something like that.

Dave Bittner (18:05)

As of the time of this recording.

Brandon Karp (18:07)

And that test case is orbital data centers being tested. It's a partnership between Axiom and Red Hat and being tested on the iss. And so that's already going to introduce new power generation systems, heat transfer systems, et cetera, for processing data in situ in space.

Dave Bittner (18:24)

All right, so we're talking about, we have in place in movement the required technologies for the core Internet backbone traffic to go from terrestrial to space based. I'm working backwards obviously. That will represent a whole bunch of interesting cybersecurity challenges, I would imagine, but I'm sure you'll get to that at some point. Most definitely. So can I ask about the Singapore Greenland thing yet? Are we still not there yet?

Brandon Karp (18:49)

Because we're still not there yet. We're going to get there. Oftentimes when folks talk about moving Internet core backbone Internet traffic from terrestrial fiber lines to space, people bring up the issue of throughput. We just can't push enough data to make it worthwhile to shift transmissions from the core undersea fiber lines. And that's massive, massive, massive, massive, massive undersea fiber lines. We're talking about terabits per second. Terabits and terabits per second over those massive fiber lines to a space based architecture. However, developments in processing in space as well as laser communications, which Illyria is investing in, is getting us actually quite close to terabit per second transmissions. And just this year a group out of China successfully demonstrated 400 gigabits per second. And Illyria has plans and designs of getting up to 1 terabyte of data per second across a single optical link. And so Elyria's recent milestones just from the other week demonstrated that they're making meaningful steps. And just in the last six, seven years, we've had a thousand x increase in the amount of data we can push over optical links. That type of acceleration is going to get us to meaningful terabits per second across optical links within the next few years. That is going to represent enough throughput to start shifting Internet traffic from terrestrial fiber cables to space based architectures and.

Dave Bittner (20:21)

Then also edge AI coming into play here where especially for space based applications, where, you know, you don't have to necessarily use all that throughput because a lot of the processing is done on edge. That's not going to necessarily be relevant for all applications, certainly. But when we're talking about things that are requiring tons and tons of compute, if you can do it in space, instead of being like shipping the data back and forth over and over, that's a big efficiency, right?

Brandon Karp (20:46)

Exactly. Big efficiencies gains more flexibility. Right. You're no longer requiring to send data through these terrestrial systems. You're no longer worried about the fiber lines getting cut by anchor chains of illicit fishing vessels. It's also more flexible in terms of failover and shifting aggregate capacity onto different links. And more importantly, on top of all of that, when you think about these constellations of thousands of satellites, you'll have access to more than one optical link. You could have access to to numerous terabit optical lengths at a single time if you have ready access to a meaningful ground station for that type of communication.

Dave Bittner (21:29)

Okay, you know, a question I want to ask now. Are we there yet?

Brandon Karp (21:33)

Okay, I think we're close enough. I think we're there. Singapore is just an illustrative example of areas of centralized communications around the world. There are many of these. Djibouti is one of them. Egypt is another. The US west coast, even Brazil has some centralized areas where it was convenient to drive all of the fiber lines to one centralized processing region. These actually typically mirrored traditional maritime shipping lanes. Basically, what is the fastest way to get from point A to point B across the ocean? Well, that's where we also ended up laying fiber lines. We don't need those maritime shipping lanes anymore for space based architectures. And so where can you get the most efficient communications from space to ground? Where is the least amount of interference? Where is the least expensive real estate for ground stations for these optical links in these proliferated low earth satellite architectures? More polar regions, not the equatorial regions. And so I think that what we're going to see as these technologies develop, and as you see Kongsberg investing in these optical ground stations and actually deploying ground station type services in space as well, is an increase in investment in physical real estate in the polar region. So anyone with Arctic or Antarctic access, so that could be Chile, that could be Norway. I used Greenland because I thought it was funny to compare Greenland to Singapore. But as investment shifts, you're going to see more and more technology companies, communications companies, et cetera, starting to invest in those regions as they can start getting core Internet access through polar based ground stations.

Dave Bittner (23:21)

Hmm. So fascinating geopolitical implications of this, certainly, that I know we've been seeing in the news in the last year.

Brandon Karp (23:29)

Most certainly. And a lot of folks maybe were laughing at the Trump administration for their potentially interest in taking over Greenland, but there actually might be some strategic reasons for Western nations to build closer relationships with those regions of the world.

Dave Bittner (23:46)

Yeah, that kind of is starting to make a little sense now. We've barely touched on the cybersecurity implications of all this, which I'm sure could take another hour if we wanted to get into that. Certainly if you can do it in like three minutes, if that's even possible. What are we looking at for maybe a thesis on what this could mean for cybersecurity implications?

Brandon Karp (24:05)

Yeah, there are a few. And first I'll just talk about infrastructure. Right. When you have a ground station, you don't want to transmit data over a long distance. So those regions will probably also see an increased investment in data centers and terrestrial systems like that, in Internet service providers and telecom providers being in those regions. As that architecture continues to grow, That'll of course shift investment out of the traditional regions of centralization for those things such as Singapore. That'll create some economic stress, of course, not necessarily directly related to cybersecurity. However, it is relevant. But what I will say though is that the use of optical transmissions introduces a number of great security features. It is a tight beam type of communication, so it is much more difficult to snoop and spoof a laser based communication. So in terms of the transport architecture itself, there's more security just by the nature of using an optical link. Optical links can process faster, so more heavy forms of encryption and cryptography can be used. So that could increase the security posture as well. There's also ways of multiplexing signals across an optical link that could make your signal much more difficult to detect and intercept as well. However, I would also say though, some of these regions that we're talking about, the Norways of the world, the Greenlands of the world, et cetera, are going to need, if my thesis comes to pass in the next 10 years, are going to need more investment in security of their digital ecosystem. You don't typically hear about those nations when it comes to cybersecurity, when it comes to having folks on the ground and security services and security forces in those regions actually defending that infrastructure, that critical infrastructure. And so it would be great to see those nations ahead of time starting to work with the us, with the uk, et cetera, on critical infrastructure protection. And how we can secure the physical assets for the digital ecosystem.

Dave Bittner (26:07)

Oh, there's so blue teamers. There's a bunch of job openings coming in some countries that you may not have expected in the future, so I really enjoyed this version of Stump the Host. You took me on a journey and I appreciate that very much. Honestly, it's a really fascinating idea. I think you are onto something legitimately. So thanks for. Thanks for this really great idea. I appreciate it.

Brandon Karp (26:26)

Yeah, it was absolutely my pleasure.

Narrator/Host (26:29)

Maria that was Brandon Karp speaking with T Minus host Maria Vermazes. Be sure to check out the T Minus Space Daily wherever you get your favorite podcasts. You hear from us here at the Cyberwire Daily every single day now. We'd love to hear from you. Your voice can help shape the future of N2K networks. Tell us what matters most to you by completing our annual audience survey. Your insights help us grow to better meet your needs. There's a link to the survey in our show Notes. We're collecting your comments through August 31st. Thanks.

Brandon Karp (27:16)

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Dave Bittner (27:46)

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Narrator/Host (28:21)

And finally, Spanish police say they've nabbed a 21 year old Seville University student who allegedly decided the best way to boost his grades wasn't through studying, but through hacking the region's education system. Investigators claim he broke into the school system's platform, quietly upgrading his own marks and in a rare act of academic generosity, adjusting classmates scores too. Authorities say he also breached the email accounts of at least 13 professors across six universities, including those preparing next year's entrance exams. His career as an unofficial registrar unraveled when staff noticed irregularities. Police seized computer gear and a notebook detailing his handiwork. The student now faces charges of computer intrusion, identity theft and document forgery. His exams, however, remain permanently failed. And that's the Cyberwire. For links to all of today's stories, check out our daily briefing@thecyberwire.com we'd love to hear from you. We're conducting our annual survey to learn more about our listeners. We're collecting your insights through the end of August, so there's only a few more days left to fill out the survey. Please take a moment and do so. There's a link in the show. Notes N2K's senior producer is Alice Carruth. Our Cyberwire producer is Liz Stokes. We're mixed by Trey Hester with original music by Elliot Paul Peltzman. Our executive producer is Jennifer Ivan. Peter Kilpe is our publisher. And I'm Dave Bittner. Thanks for listening. We'll see you back here tomorrow.