LIVE! From Philly [Threat Vector]

Summary

CyberWire Daily Podcast Summary: "LIVE! From Philly [Threat Vector]"

Release Date: February 17, 2025

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1. Introduction and Special Episode Context

In the episode titled "LIVE! From Philly [Threat Vector]," hosted by David Moulton, Director of Thought Leadership at Unit 42, listeners are treated to a unique behind-the-scenes experience. Recorded live at the Cyber Marketing Con in Philadelphia in December 2024, this episode marks a departure from the usual format, offering insights into the creation and evolution of the Threat Vector podcast itself.

2. Celebrating Excellence: AVA Digital Awards Recognition

David Moulton kicks off the episode with exciting news about Threat Vector's recent accolade:

"Threatvector just received an award from the AVA Digital Awards 2025 competition. This international competition recognizes excellence in digital communication and we're incredibly honored to be recognized among top-tier podcast video productions and digital content creators."
– David Moulton [00:56]

This recognition underscores the podcast's commitment to high-quality content and digital storytelling in the cybersecurity landscape.

3. Behind the Scenes: Technical Setup and Sound Quality

A significant portion of the discussion revolves around the technical aspects of producing a top-notch podcast. David Moulton emphasizes the importance of sound quality and a consistent recording environment:

"I think you need a consistent place to record so that you're not always dragging out your equipment trying to set it all up and then break it down."
– David Moulton [03:25]

Guest Host David J. Ebner commends Threat Vector's audio excellence and inquires about the equipment used:

"One thing I have noticed about the Threat Vector podcast is the phenomenal sound quality. What equipment are you using specifically to pull that off?"
– David J. Ebner [04:26]

Moulton shares his preference for the Shure M7 USB microphone over the Blue Yeti, highlighting the balance between quality and user-friendliness:

"The mic I had before was a blue Yeti... ended up changing over to the M7. Never looked back."
– David Moulton [04:34]

4. Crafting Engaging Conversations: Developing Questions for Guests

The episode delves into the art of formulating compelling interview questions. Moulton outlines his process, which combines thorough research with intuitive curiosity:

"It goes into understanding the guest, doing some research on them, understanding the topic... podcast is also a place for me to ask smart people really dumb questions or things I'm curious about."
– David Moulton [06:39]

He utilizes tools like LinkedIn and Threat Vector GPT to draft questions, ensuring conversations remain both relevant and engaging.

5. The Heart of Podcasting: Storytelling in Cybersecurity

Central to the episode is the discussion on the significance of storytelling within the cybersecurity realm. Moulton expresses his passion for narrating impactful stories:

"I love telling stories. It's exciting to me. And to me, a podcast is a storytelling medium."
– David Moulton [09:02]

This approach not only humanizes complex cybersecurity topics but also resonates deeply with listeners seeking relatable and inspiring content.

6. Inspiring Customer Stories

a. Jim Foote and First Ascent

One standout narrative shared is that of Jim Foote, CEO of First Ascent, a biomedical company. Foote's personal tragedy—losing his son to cancer—led him to apply cybersecurity resilience strategies to biotech:

"He started this company to take the lessons learned of fighting cybercriminals and dealing with ransomware, which he saw had a massive parallel to cancer, and applied that to this biotech company."
– David Moulton [09:39]

This story exemplifies how cybersecurity principles can transcend industries, fostering resilience in diverse fields.

b. Gregory Jones and Xavier University

Another compelling account involves Gregory Jones at Xavier University, who employs unconventional methods to promote cybersecurity awareness among students and faculty:

"Greg was taking like yard signs and sticking them in the grass and reminding people... here's your cybersecurity awareness training."
– David Moulton [11:08]

Jones's creative approach highlights the importance of adaptability and innovation in cybersecurity education.

7. Building the Business Case for Podcasting

Addressing the strategic aspect of podcasting, Moulton shares insights into justifying the investment within an organization:

"Within Unit 42... the podcast was a means to tell incredible stories... and meet the audience's desire for audio content without lengthy reports."
– David Moulton [14:01]

He emphasizes the balance between compelling storytelling and measurable engagement metrics, such as customer participation and qualitative feedback, over mere streaming numbers.

8. Overcoming Challenges and Avoiding Plateau

The conversation acknowledges potential stagnation in podcast growth and explores strategies to maintain momentum:

"We were mentally locked into a Thursday release... experimenting with different formats and release schedules, incorporating new hosts, experts..."
– David Moulton [17:52]

Moulton discusses the importance of flexibility and responsiveness to audience needs, considering factors like optimal release times and diverse content formats to keep the podcast fresh and engaging.

9. Key Takeaways: Embracing Experimentation

As the episode draws to a close, Moulton imparts a crucial lesson on the value of continuous experimentation:

"Experimentation... constantly iterate and to experiment... people seek out the new and novel, figure out what's new and novel and do that."
– David Moulton [20:06]

He advocates for a design-thinking mindset, encouraging podcasters and marketers alike to remain adaptable, innovating their approaches to stay relevant and impactful.

10. Conclusion and Acknowledgments

The episode concludes with heartfelt acknowledgments to the special host David J. Ebner, the team at Cyber Marketing Con 2024, and the dedicated production crew behind Threat Vector. Moulton reiterates the podcast's commitment to delivering valuable cybersecurity insights and looks forward to returning to the regular format in subsequent episodes.

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Final Thoughts

"LIVE! From Philly [Threat Vector]" offers a rare glimpse into the making of a successful cybersecurity podcast. Through candid discussions on technical setups, storytelling, strategic planning, and continuous improvement, David Moulton and David J. Ebner provide invaluable insights for both seasoned podcasters and newcomers aiming to make their mark in the digital content landscape. This episode not only celebrates past achievements but also sets the stage for future innovations in cybersecurity storytelling.

Transcript

[David Moulton]

You're listening to the Cyberwire network, powered by N2K.

[David J. Ebner]

Ready to undermine adversaries and unleash sucops. Join us for Symphony 2025, the ultimate global event designed for security leaders and practitioners who are revolutionizing their SOC. Get unparalleled insights from Unit 42, learn from Cortex customers and see how Cortex is built to conquer today's toughest security threats. Don't miss out on this chance to go from insight to transformation. Level up your security game now. Register at start.paloaltonetworks.com Symphony2025 welcome to Threat Vector, the Palo Alto Networks podcast where we discuss pressing cybersecurity threats and resilience and uncover insights into the latest industry trends. I'm your host David Moulton, Director of thought leadership at unit 42. Today we're bringing you something special and a little different A live episode recorded at the Cyber Marketing Con in Philly in December 2024. I had the privilege of attending the conference to talk about Threat Vector and share a behind the scenes look at how we create this show. It was an incredible opportunity to connect with other cybersecurity storytellers and for this episode I hand over the hosting duties to David J. Ebner, President of Content Workshop. David is a fantastic storyteller and someone who truly understands the power of content in cybersecurity marketing. Before we dive in, I want to take a moment to celebrate something exciting. Threatvector just received an award from the AVA Digital Awards 2025 competition. This international competition recognizes excellence in digital communication and and we're incredibly honored to be recognized among top tier podcast video productions and digital content creators. A huge thank you to our listeners, guests and the entire team who make this podcast possible. Now, as I mentioned, this episode is a bit different from our usual content. It's a behind the scenes look at this podcast's journey so far. If that's not your usual area of interest, don't worry. We'll be back on Thursday with our regular cybersecurity focused episode. But for now, let's take you to Philly where we recorded this conversation as part of my Cyber Marketing Con talk.

[David Moulton]

So those of you who have not had a chance to meet David Ebner, he's the President over at Content Workshop. We met last year at this conference, but in Texas and David and I have gotten to know each other. David grew up in the fried chicken capital of the world and he's the only person I've ever met personally that's dunked on LeBron James. So those are my two interesting facts about David Ebner at Content Workshop. David, thank you. Can I get some applause for our special host tonight?

[Guest Host]

I'll be the first to admit that all good stories have a kernel of truth in them. But that story he just told about me, that kernel is infinitesimal. You can guess which one is true and which one is false. Thanks again for having me, David. It's an honor to be here. Before we get too deep into the interview, I want to talk about equipment. Yeah, do you need a studio? Do you use a studio?

[David Moulton]

I actually have a picture of my studio. This is it, guys. It's my, my Mac and a microphone. And apparently I didn't put a picture of my headphones in there, but they're just, you know, cans that go on. And I think if you can get a studio or if you have access to one, I would use it. But I don't think you need one. I think you need a consistent place to record so that you're not always dragging out your equipment trying to set it all up and then break it down. That was one of the least enjoyable parts on some of the old podcasts that I'd been on. Was hustling into a call room to try to put something together and then being like, oh God, it's bouncy sound in here, it's ridiculous. Or to go into the place that I thought I was going to record and there's a whole meeting in there and I'm scrambling and telling the guests, I promise I'll be right there. So, no, I don't think you need it, but just like a consistent place to record.

[Guest Host]

Well, one thing I have noticed about the Threat Victor podcast is the phenomenal sound quality. What equipment are you using specifically to pull that off?

[David Moulton]

That was the Shure M7. It's a USB mic. Elliot over at N2K and I were talking about. The mic I had before was a blue Yeti. It's pretty popular microphone, but every time I would touch anything, you'd get this big boom. And trying to get it to hold the sound, it was just, it was too fiddly. So ended up changing over to the M7. Never looked back. And then we do ship out audio equipment, we'll ship a microphone to guests if we have time.

[Guest Host]

So what about simply using AirPods or a headset that has a built in mic?

[David Moulton]

Yeah, it's a judgment call. I think that a headphone with a boom mic ends up sounding better than, than AirPods. But AirPods are doable. Sometimes the guest and what they're going to say is more important than perfect audio. But if you've got somebody who is easy to reschedule and amenable to it, I would say, like, hey, can I mail you a microphone? We'll drop ship it, it'll be there tomorrow, whatever. And then get them on a better microphone, because you're never going to get another shot at getting better audio. And all the tools in the world can only do so much. If you're sending your audio engineer something low quality, it better be high content value.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, I. I can empathize with that. As an aside, about three years ago, the Myers Briggs Company came to us at Content Workshop to help launch their podcast. They had never done one before, and we went back and forth about equipment for the guests themselves. And it was after a couple of episodes where we had to scrub the entire endeavor because the sound quality was so bad that we literally bought a studio kit and just started mailing it around the world because it was cheaper than scrubbing episodes left and right.

[David Moulton]

Absolutely. No, I think that's the right call.

[Guest Host]

All right, back to the main journey. So here we are, right? We have a great setup, we have a willing guest, right? We have an amazing topic, but where the rubber really meets the road is the conversation. Right. So how do you go about developing phenomenal questions for your guests?

[David Moulton]

It goes into understanding the guest, doing some research on them, understanding the topic. Sometimes I'll use LinkedIn to pull data on the background of a guest and feed that into Threat Vector GPT. It'll give us our C minus B plus draft. Then it's over to Mike and a human to look at it. He's former journalist. I'll come back and look at some of the questions ago. I would never say that out loud to a person in my life. I'm not going to ask that question. For me, the podcast is also a place for me to ask smart people really dumb questions or things I'm curious about. So I like to put some of those in as well. And once you have that conversation guide, you recognize that that's all it is. It's going to get you into a direction and something will come up and you just follow it, see where it goes, and hope that your answers end up being really fascinating and engaging for somebody who's a listener.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, I get that. So you mentioned a bit about the weekly episodes and then the segments that you did before talk me through kind of that transition and what was different about those two processes.

[David Moulton]

So if you can believe it, the Segments were actually harder than the long form episodes. I think there's that Mark Twain quote. I would have written you a shorter letter, but I needed more time. Something along those lines, putting together a five to seven minute episode, that's a short amount of time to tell a story and to have an arc and to introduce the guest, all those things. So when we went to the full size episode, the freedom of all the time you could have was one of the things that I think we made a mistake early on with some very long episodes because we had it. And we've kind of wheeled back and said, okay, that 30 minutes is cheap. Just about the right sweet spot for us. And it's not to say that you can't pull a good segment. It's just a tricky proposition.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, I can imagine that. Okay, let's switch gears just a little bit here. We've talked about lessons learned, we talked about tech and tips, but the real question I have for you today is why, like, why even. Why even run a podcast? What is the benefit of podcasting for you?

[David Moulton]

I love telling stories. It's exciting to me. And to me, a podcast is a storytelling medium. And it's the place that you can go out there and platform somebody's story that's really inspiring. It's the kind of place where you can share a customer win. And if you're into telling stories, then a podcast is a cool place to go. Put those together and give them to the world. Give them to the audience and see if they're into your stories.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, yeah, that's great. And are there any specific stories that come to mind through your journey?

[David Moulton]

Yeah, you know, I'm going to try not to get choked up when I tell this one. So there's this CEO of a company called First Ascent. They're a biomedical company. And the CEO there is named Jim Foote. And Jim was a. He was a CISO. And his son got cancer when he was 17. And they went through the standard care. And unfortunately, Jim's son passed away, died of cancer. And in that process, they had come to him and said, well, we did everything we can. What do you want to do now? And he's going, why are you asking me? I'm the IT guy. And so he started this company to take the lessons learned of fighting cybercriminals and dealing with ransomware, which he saw had a massive parallel to cancer, and applied that to this biotech company and dedicated him to it. And look, it's Palo Alto's podcast, but this isn't A pan customer. This isn't a person that's going to tell you that we have amazing fill in the blank with product name or that they love unit 42. This is just a security guy that had applied those lessons and that's a story worth sharing and telling. And I had that opportunity and made the call. So those are, you know, when else do you get to do that in your job? That's pretty amazing.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, that is amazing. It's definitely a story worth celebrating. Are there any other customer stories that stand out like that?

[David Moulton]

Yeah, you know, a lot of times you're looking at like, what are the big logos, what are the big customers? But sometimes it's the really creative small companies. The universities is what comes to mind here. There's a Gregory Jones over at Xavier, and he does some things that I think aren't your traditional security practices to keep that campus secure. You think about, like a university, you've got first year students that have never touched a computer all the way to faculty who wish to never touch a computer because they like the overhead projector and like a whole range in between. They all have to be cybersecure. And what Greg was doing was taking like yard signs and sticking them in the grass and reminding people, like, here's your cybersecurity awareness training. Like, while you're on your way to class, change your password, don't click that button. Look out for this fish. And I was like, yard signs. I've never thought that was a market segment that we would want to be in, but he used it to great effect. And I was like, let's celebrate this guy. It's so fun. Yeah.

[Guest Host]

So is that your favorite part of podcasting to highlighting these customer stories, or is there something else that stands out as being more fun for you?

[David Moulton]

For me, at my strength Finders level, if anyone uses strength finders, number two for me is learning. And this is all a big ruse to get very, very smart people to sit down with me for an hour and answer my questions and let me learn. And along the way, we record it and edit it and put it out in the world. I mean, I'm only joking a little bit, but no, that's it. Getting in and talking to incredibly brilliant people that are driven, they're mission oriented and understanding what they're doing and why they're doing it. It's fascinating. It's fascinating to sit down with them and learn from them.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, I think that comes out in the episodes too. You know, earlier you mentioned your, your background in design. I'm interested to know how that's influenced your. Your podcasting experience.

[David Moulton]

So design thinking is a approach. I think it's a quasi engineering design approach. And it moves to this idea of the loop. And the idea is that you have a hypothesis and you talk to somebody about the problem that they have, and then you make a little prototype and you test it. And then what works, what doesn't work, you build from that. And to me, that's what's influencing a lot of the work I do in marketing and specifically within podcasting. And a lot of the stuff that we come up with doesn't work. And we have to iterate, we have to test, we have to move on. And so that's the designer in me.

[Guest Host]

Okay, great. So we're going to switch to some questions. Who has a question for David?

[David Moulton]

All right.

[Audience Member]

A little bit, because I have an inside track on this. And I've seen you operate, David, which is I've seen you run a masterclass on making the business case to your organization of why you should have this podcast and why you should invest not just your time, but people, resources, energy in creating this podcast. Can you, you know, I think it would be helpful for this audience here. What is that business case? How did you go about that strategy in making that business case of why your organization and your team should invest in this resource?

[David Moulton]

So first, within unit 42, where we started at the business unit level, we have incredible stories and the podcast was a means to tell them. When you think about what happens when somebody comes off of an ir, an incident response, or dozens of them, and you talk to them about what they're seeing, it's fascinating to know what's going on in those situations without revealing sources or, you know, violating a privacy with a customer. And then on the other side, an audience wants to know, like, what should we know about what happened? And then if you then go around the other side on marketing, it's at that moment, I think it was, I heard this last year, CISOs are going, I don't want to read your 50 page report. Okay. I don't want to have to fill out a form. I get it. And I just want you to tell me the facts. I just want you to get in my ears when I'm doing something else. And there was kind of an aha moment of like, that all came together. And it seemed like there was a gap within the storytelling of security, incident response, the type of security intel that we had in unit 42. All of those things started to make sense. And then it was just a matter of, can we go test it in the market and if it goes well, fund it, build it, accelerate it, scale it. If it doesn't go well, why? And if we conclude it's just not wanted, then we move on. It's okay. Not everything's going to be successful.

[Guest Host]

That's great. Next question.

[David Moulton]

Can you talk about some of the challenges that you might have faced along the way in building similar. Similar case question to what you just asked. Building the case against, you know, vanity metrics and dealing with some of those challenges? Yeah, it's tricky because there's a point where you're looking at your big top line number and 725,000, like, that's. That's a splashy number. I don't know how many of the people who are listening get through 1 minute, 2 minutes, 10 minutes, 80%. Right. Those are tougher. Our stream will let us know how far people went and I think the overall reach. But the stream number is this, like, out of every 10,000, we have like 10 streamers. So I'm not sure that it's entirely useful. When you get a customer calling you up and asking to be on the podcast, I found that to be a far more useful metric or data point to go in with our cmo. So we sat down with uni and we said, look, we have these big numbers. Here's our curve. And he's like, great. And I said, this gas and oil company we're working to release the episode wants to be on. This university wants to be on. We've got sellers who have customers that want to be on the podcast. That's an indication to me that this is something that was desirable for our audience and then for our business. And it was a balance of storytelling and metrics together. You needed both.

[Guest Host]

Yeah, I agree. Time for one more question in the back there.

[David Moulton]

Well, first of all, congratulations for building out your podcast as well. If you have. But here's a question. Have you hit a plateau yet, either in terms of subscribers or numbers? And if you had, what have you found that would help you shake loose and get onto that next trajectory? Or if you haven't, have you thought forward about that? I don't know that we've hit a plateau, but we're paranoid. The numbers that we have today are now zero or baseline for the expectations within. Within the business. So things like the original hashtag that I came up with, threat Vector Thursday, rolled off the tongue. It's going to be awesome. It'll go viral. It didn't that sort of thing kind of mentally locked us into a Thursday release. And then we realized maybe we should do Friday social and then a Tuesday for the segment. And then the segment was a look back. And then just recently we talked to the team over at N2K about doing a look forward. We were thinking maybe it's a preview of what's coming. We may experiment with moving to a Saturday or a Sunday when an executive might have a little bit more time and seeing how that goes. I like the idea of bringing in other hosts. Like, I enjoy this, but I think there are other flavors that we could add to the show. So far it's been an interview based show and I think that there's a lot of pent up demand for us to say bring in a threat researcher, bring in somebody who is a expert on what's happening and say this is what mattered this week. We've specifically been asked about it by customers to do that. And so we may change up the format of the show and or spin things off. And I suppose anything gets to a plateau, but it's still, it's still good. So then it's a question of is it good enough to keep doing with the time that we have to put into it, the budget that we have to put into it.

[Guest Host]

Okay, David, unfortunately we're running out of time. In closing, is there something that you've shared with us today that you want to be considered the most important takeaway for the group here?

[David Moulton]

I do. I think it's that experimentation. One of the contrast that I've noticed between marketing organizations and how that discipline works and how design works is that marketing will figure out something that works and then they scale it, they optimize it, they run it, and they run it efficiently. And design challenges you to not get into that sameness. It constantly asks you what went well, what didn't go well, what did we forget to do and to continue to iterate and to experiment. And I think with GPTs, different tools, audiences shifting around, Covid post, Covid behaviors, all of those sorts of things it calls into question is the thing that you've been doing for 10, 15 months still. Right. Should you iterate and to constantly experiment? I think that's important. And I think that's the designer in me that's pushing that. And honestly, it's the kind of thing that I think will go to our guest question of how do you not plateau? People seek out the new and novel, figure out what's new and novel and do that. Thanks everyone.

[David J. Ebner]

A huge thank you to David J. Ebner, President of Content Workshop, for stepping in as host. David, your insights and storytelling expertise made this conversation feel like friends chatting, and I'm grateful for your help to make this episode. I'd also like to extend a thank you to the team at Cyber Marketing Con 2024 for having me speak at their conference this year and for providing such an amazing platform to connect with this incredible community. It was great to share a behind the scenes look at how we create this podcast and discuss the evolving role of content in cybersecurity storytelling. Remember, this was a special episode and we'll be back on Thursday with our regular programming diving into the latest cybersecurity threats, insights and expert analysis. That's it for today. If you like what you heard, please subscribe wherever you listen and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Your reviews and feedback really do help us understand what you want to hear about. I want to thank our Executive Producer Michael Heller, our content and production teams, which include Kenny Miller, Joe Benecourt and Virginia Trant. Elliot Peltzman edits the show and mixes the audio. We'll be back next week. Until then, stay secure, stay vigilant. Goodbye for now.