Podcast Summary: The Changing Face of Fraud [CISO Perspectives]

CyberWire Daily — November 11, 2025
Host: Kim Jones (N2K Networks)
Guest: Mel Lanning (Executive Director, BBB Institute for Marketplace Trust)

Episode Overview

This episode dives into the evolution of consumer fraud, with a special focus on recent rises in scams exploiting individuals and small businesses. Host Kim Jones is joined by Mel Lanning of the BBB Institute for Marketplace Trust. Together, they discuss major trends, the impact of new technologies like generative AI and cryptocurrency, the most prevalent and damaging scams today, and what can be done to better protect businesses and the public.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Motivation Behind Security Work (00:11–05:21)

• Kim Jones shares his “Single mom at Walmart” story to humanize the stakes of cyber fraud and why professionals dedicate themselves to this work.
  • Quote: "Regardless of why you got into security, preventing fraud and its impacts on our constituents weighs heavily on us all." (04:23)
• 2025 FTC data: $12.5 billion lost to fraud in 2024, up 25% from the prior year. Increasing loss rate—not the number of incidents.

Setting the Stage: Definitions & the BBB Institute’s Role (05:21–08:51)

• Fraud vs. Scam (06:15):
  • Fraud: Direct theft, such as unauthorized withdrawals from an account.
  • Scam: A manipulative scheme convincing victims to willingly send money.
    • Quote: "Scams... convince you to take action to pay them money. Fraud... is somebody taking money out of your account where you haven't actually given them permission..." — Mel Lanning (06:15)
• BBB Institute for Marketplace Trust:
  • Nonprofit arm of the BBB dedicated to education, scam prevention, and resource development for individuals and businesses.

Who’s Reporting and Who’s at Risk? (08:51–10:20)

• Most scam reports come from individuals, not businesses—possibly due to underreporting by the latter.
• BBB Scam Tracker invites public reporting and shares scam data openly.

2024’s Top Scams and Emerging Trends (10:20–16:45)

• BBB Scam Tracker Risk Report: Ranks scams by impact, not just frequency, considering:
  1. Volume/exposure
  2. Susceptibility (% losing money when targeted)
  3. Median dollar loss

1. Online Shopping Scams (top scam by volume, lower dollar loss)

• Example: Fake e-commerce sites; ~30% of scam reports, ~80% susceptibility, median ~$100 lost

• Quote: "It's a volume-based attack. It's not trying to steal $100,000 from you; it's trying to steal $100 from 10,000 people." — Kim Jones (12:38)

2. Investment/Cryptocurrency Scams (most damaging, riskiest for 2nd year)

• Perpetrators promise unrealistic returns through bogus crypto platforms, “investment opportunities.”

• Losses are huge—draining life savings; people may take out loans, believing false gains shown on fake platforms.

• Quote: "Most of the investment scams are crypto now... people are promising to help you make money in crypto... before they know it, they've lost everything." — Mel Lanning (13:14)

• Regulatory gaps and normalization of crypto in the U.S. may heighten risk, but it’s the amount lost, not prevalence, driving risk status (15:39).

3. Employment Scams (19:41–23:04)

• Often target young people. Victims are hired online, receive a check for supposed equipment/training, and are asked to transfer money before the check clears—losing real funds.

• New twist: getting paid in crypto for simple online tasks, then coaxed to “invest” their own money as the account appears to grow.

• Quote: "Young people...don't really know how checks work... they're transferring their own real funds before realizing." — Mel Lanning (21:14)

4. Romance/Friendship Scams (23:04–26:35)

• Expand beyond romantic relationships to “best friends.” Scammers exploit loneliness, build trust through prolonged daily interaction, then invent crises requiring money—often escalating to cryptocurrency-based cons.

• Law enforcement calls the evolved tactic "pig butchering"—fattening up the target for bigger future thefts.

• Quote: "I've talked to victims who say... even after they realize it was a scam, how much they miss that person." — Mel Lanning (24:06)

• Quote: "It's just fattening up the pig for slaughter so you get them to put more and more money in over time until it's time to finally steal the money." — Mel Lanning (26:22)

Scams in Small Business: Similar Threats, Different Expression (27:33–29:54)

• Most common:

  • Phishing/Social Engineering: Attempting to induce employee error, leading to malware, ransomware infections.

  • Business Email Compromise (BEC): Spoofing an executive to convince staff to wire money urgently.

  • Quote: "For small businesses...just this need for constant training for everyone... it's not a once and done kind of training." — Mel Lanning (28:38)

On Fighting Back: Training, Realism, and Rising Technologies (29:54–32:33)

• Unrealistic public expectations about eradicating scams; cyber threats evolve constantly.
  • Quote: "Crime has not been eradicated. So is this a case of we need to expect that scammers gonna scam and people are going to be hit?" — Kim Jones (29:54)
• AI may hold promise for real-time scam detection.
• Effective fraud prevention efforts require collaboration across business, nonprofits, and government.

Recommendations & Closing Thoughts (32:33–35:38)

• If “supreme ruler,” Mel Lanning would push for:

  • A U.S. national fraud strategy, unifying currently siloed agencies and stakeholders (33:09).

  • Quote: "There needs to be a unified strategy where you bring everyone together to figure this out." — Mel Lanning (33:22)

• Advice to Listeners:

  1. Report scams—critical for prevention and warning others.
  2. Support victims—emphasize empathy and avoid shaming. Scam victims aren’t to blame.
  • Quote: "It's something that can be incredibly embarrassing. But we know that these scammers are professional criminals. So we have to put the blame on the criminal and not on the person and not make them feel worse." — Mel Lanning (34:24)

• Resources:

  • BBB Institute research and risk reports (free)
  • BBB Scam Tracker for reporting and searching scam data (35:24)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "You can't pin this on one organization or one segment of society... We all have to be working together to figure this out." — Mel Lanning (31:47)

• "If you get targeted by scam, please report it. That information is critically important to us, to everybody that's doing this." — Mel Lanning (33:47)

• "Supporting scam victims takes empathy; we need to stop blaming the victim and put it on the criminal." — Mel Lanning (34:24)

Important Timestamps

• 00:11 — Host’s motivation & the real-life stakes of fraud
• 05:21 — Defining scams vs. fraud and BBB Institute’s mission
• 10:20 — Year’s top scam types and underlying methodology
• 13:14 — Rise of crypto investment scams
• 19:41 — Employment scams and their evolution
• 23:04 — Friendship/romance scams and “pig butchering”
• 27:33 — Small business threats and advice
• 29:54 — Realistic expectations & the need for collaborative defense
• 32:33 — What would change if a national fraud strategy were adopted
• 34:47 — Reporting scams & treating victims with empathy
• 35:24 — Where to find reports and report scams

Resources Mentioned

• BBB Institute for Marketplace Trust Research
• BBB Scam Tracker
• FTC 2025 Data Book (not directly linked)

Overall Tone

Insightful, accessible, and compassionate—with a strong emphasis on public education, empathy for victims, and the urgency of unified action in addressing the ever-evolving landscape of fraud.

For the full research reports or to report a scam, visit the links above. The conversation continues on the CISO Perspectives blog, linked from the episode notes.