Podcast Summary: Transitioning from Service to Civilian Life

CyberWire Daily – T-Minus Deep Space
Host: Maria Varmazes (N2K Networks)
Guests: Lieutenant Rob Sarver & Alex Genzior, authors of Warrior to Civilian: The Field Manual for the Hero's Journey
Date: November 11, 2025

Episode Overview

This episode explores the challenges and opportunities of transitioning from military service to civilian life. Host Maria Varmazes is joined by Lieutenant Rob Sarver and lawyer Alex Genzior, co-authors of the newly released book Warrior to Civilian: The Field Manual for the Hero's Journey. They delve into the emotional, psychological, and practical difficulties veterans face, the importance of mentorship, and the resources available for service members and their families. The conversation provides insight grounded in lived experience, real stories, and a compassionate framework inspired by Joseph Campbell's "hero’s journey".

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Guest Introductions and Motivation for the Book

(02:46 – 05:03)

• Rob Sarver: Former Naval Academy graduate, 9 years active duty (SEAL Team 3), transitioned into finance, completed an MBA at Wharton, experienced entrepreneurship, and eventually worked in private equity.
  • Quote:
    "Got about, I don't know, probably about a year into Goldman I realized how far behind I was with my peer group after serving in two conflicts... So applied, went back and did an MBA program at Wharton." (03:15)
• Alex Genzior: Lawyer with a personal connection through his son, who entered the Naval Academy and the military. Felt a desire to create something helpful for his son’s eventual transition, leading to the book’s wider mission.
  • Quote:
    "I also wanted him to have something for when he got out, in the likely event that I'm no longer here... a much, much bigger sense of mission and duty and obligation to those that have served." (04:28)

2. The Hero’s Journey Framework & Its Relevance

(05:05 – 11:16)

• The book frames the service member’s transition through Joseph Campbell's Hero’s Journey—leaving a known world, facing trials, returning changed, and struggling with full reintegration.
  • Rob:
    "Every veteran’s journey is one of great nobility and purpose... We all had this call to adventure. We all left our homes, this known world... and we received mentorship and training." (05:47)
• Discusses "the fog"—the struggle to complete the last phase of the journey, often tied to PTSD, TBI, injuries, and moral wounds.
• Alex:
  Applies the social science approach (pattern recognition through interviews), noting the trauma of transition is akin to “falling off a cliff” from a world you know to an unknown one. The need is not just for survival, but for finding purpose anew.
  • Quote:
    "You've got black belt skills in the military world, but it's like you have to start over again with a white belt." (09:41)
  • Integrating "black belt" military skills into civilian life can become a source of strength and impact.

3. Powerful Stories from the Veteran Community

(11:51 – 16:38)

• Rob:
  Uses the "Circles of Concern" framework: Begin with self-healing before moving to family, then community, then country.
  • Quote:
    "If you're not honest with yourself... If you're not willing to fix yourself or seek help, you're never going to be able to function within the family environment..." (12:03)
• Alex:
  Shares stories of lesser-known veterans:
  • Derek Herrera: Marine Raider, paralyzed in Afghanistan, called for medevac while severely wounded, later earned an MBA and created life-changing medical devices for others with spinal injuries.
    • "In his hospital bed he went and got an MBA and he created companies that produce innovative, life-changing medical devices for people with spinal cord injuries." (14:19)
  • Vietnam Veteran: Carried survivor’s guilt for decades after a comrade died in his place; participation in the book was part of his catharsis.
  • Two Female Veterans: Both survived assaults, lost family, and ultimately found healing and the ability to help others—described as "two of the most powerful people I’ve ever met in my life." (15:36)

4. The Importance of Mentorship and Preparation

(19:11 – 22:56)

• Mentorship is highlighted as the most impactful resource for transitioning service members—more valuable than just job placement assistance.
  • Rob:
    "The true mentorship and mentorship beyond, 'Hey, I'm going to help you find a job.' That's only one piece of the puzzle, right?" (20:00)
• Encourages veterans to start preparing for transition 12–24 months in advance.
  • "Everything we did in the military was in preparation... but we do nothing to train to get out." (20:26)
• Alex:
  Stresses the need for veterans to take the transition as seriously as any mission, including taking healing seriously:
  • "It is as if you are carrying around a rucksack every day... with an extra 50 pounds you don't need to carry." (21:31)
  • The civilian world is challenging terrain, requiring the same dedication and training.

5. Support for Military Families and Spouses

(22:56 – 27:01)

• Rob:
  Notes that spouses and families also face identity and community loss. Calls for early, honest conversation as a family to reduce the stress of transition.
  • "What we found was the common themes of these spouses served the country as well. Maybe not in uniform, but they were right there taking the sacrifice..." (24:44)
  • Book’s annexes and the website (heroes-journey.net) provide tailored resources.
• Alex:
  Emphasizes secondary PTSD and the need for families to treat their own transition seriously.
  • "Please understand and please listen that your transition is as momentous, as important as that of the veteran." (25:36)

6. Final Thoughts: Hope and Resilience

(27:31 – 29:18)

• Rob:
  Shares a Churchill quote:
  "When you're going through hell, keep going." (27:37)
  • Even when in "the fog" or at the edge of the abyss, resources and help exist—don’t give up.
• Alex:
  Stresses hope and support:
  "Never give up. There is hope. There is inspiration... There are therapies... that didn't exist a year ago, let alone ten years ago." (28:09)
  • Invites listeners to visit the website, heroes-journey.net, and share their stories.

Notable Quotes

• Rob Sarver (03:15):
  "Got about a year into Goldman I realized how far behind I was with my peer group after serving in two conflicts..."

• Alex Genzior (09:41):
  "You've got black belt skills in the military world, but it's like you have to start over again with a white belt."

• Rob Sarver (12:03):
  "If you're not honest with yourself... If you're not willing to fix yourself or seek help, you're never going to be able to function within the family environment..."

• Alex Genzior (14:19):
  "In his hospital bed he went and got an MBA and he created companies that produce innovative, life-changing medical devices for people with spinal cord injuries."

• Rob Sarver (20:26):
  "Everything we did in the military was in preparation... but we do nothing to train to get out."

• Alex Genzior (21:31):
  "It is as if you are carrying around a rucksack every day... with an extra 50 pounds you don't need to carry."

• Rob Sarver (27:37):
  "When you're going through hell, keep going." (quoting Churchill)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Guest Introductions & Origins of the Book (02:46 – 05:03)
• The Hero’s Journey & Transition Framework (05:05 – 11:16)
• Personal Stories and Experiences (11:51 – 16:38)
• Mentorship and Preparation (19:11 – 22:56)
• Support for Families and Spouses (22:56 – 27:01)
• Closing Thoughts on Hope (27:31 – 29:18)

Further Resources & Contact

• Book Website & Resources: heroes-journey.net
• Book: Warrior to Civilian: The Field Manual for the Hero's Journey
• Invitation:
  "We’re inviting people to come tell their stories. We would love that. So don’t lose hope. Reach out, get the book, and come visit us." (Alex, 28:46)

Tone and Takeaway

Warm, deeply empathetic, and grounded in practical advice, this episode shined a light on both the difficulties and the untapped potential of those making the journey from military to civilian life. It encourages service members, their families, and the wider community to treat the transition with gravity, seek mentorship, and remain hopeful—emphasizing that resources and support are out there and no one needs to journey alone.