CyberWire Daily – "What Happened to Hacker Culture?" [Threat Vector]

Date: October 13, 2025
Host: David Moulton (B)
Guest: Kyle Wilhoyt, Director of Threat Research, Unit 42 (A)

Episode Overview

In this special episode of Threat Vector, host David Moulton sits down with Kyle Wilhoyt to explore the personal journey, mindset, and evolution of hacker culture—from its roots in curiosity and hardware tinkering to its current intersection with enterprise cybersecurity and automation. The episode investigates how hacker identity has changed, what’s been lost and gained as the field professionalizes, and offers advice for the next generation entering the security world.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Foundation of Hacker Mindset: Endless Curiosity

• Curiosity as Core: Kyle emphasizes that “being endlessly curious is something that can only benefit you within constraint... But being curious.” [00:26]
• Kyle traces his first exposure to hacker culture back to reading 2600 magazine and building devices as a young teen, highlighting the early spirit of hands-on experimentation. [02:46]

2. Defining Hacker Culture – Past & Present

• Old School:
  • Free-traded or open information.
  • Value of hands-on skills: "The ability to write scripts, execute code, perform actual hacks."
  • Mistrust of authority—a hallmark visible at early DEFCONs (“spot the Fed” contests).
  • Skill-based respect: “You would judge other hackers based on their skill and by their skill alone.” [05:17]
• Now:
  • Hacker culture is “deeply intertwined with the mainstream tech industry.”
  • The term “hacker” is more ambiguous, sometimes seen as negative, sometimes as a badge of creative problem-solving. “It’s a modern multifaceted phenomenon with a lot of baggage tied to that term.” [05:17]
• Host Reflection: David stresses separating “hacker” from “attacker,” arguing that hacking is about enabling technology to do unintended things—for good or ill:
  • “The intent and in the mind of the person...then defines whether it's a good or a bad thing.” [08:20]

3. Influences Shaping the Hacker Mindset

• Personal:
  • Kyle’s brother’s “engineering mindset...wants to understand how everything works,” instilled endless curiosity. [09:19]
• Professional:
  • Mentors Martin Rosler and Ben April at Trend Micro taught the power of asking “what if?” to open up innovative thinking and embrace hypotheses, even at the risk of failure. [09:19, 10:57]
• Iterative Learning:
  • Failure is not just acceptable, it’s a vital data source; “You still learn something.” [11:32]

4. The Impact of AI & Automation on Hacker Culture

• Lowering Barriers:
  • “Automation, generative AI...is facilitating and fueling cybercrime...at a rate we haven’t seen.” [12:29]
  • Both amateurs and nation-state adversaries benefit from tools like LLMs to scale attacks or create malware more efficiently.
• Advanced Threats:
  • Cites recent real examples (Russian APTs using LLMs for malware development). [12:29]
  • AI is not only a tool for spread but also for sophistication: “They can manipulate LLMs, jailbreak them in some capacity...” [12:29]

5. The Professionalization of Cybersecurity – Gains & Losses

• What’s Lost:
  • “The loss of just open and free information sharing.” [14:09]
  • Shift from pure curiosity to “marketable skills.” [14:09]
• What’s Gained:
  • Explosive “innovation and development,” large-scale R&D.
  • “Professionalization and quality control on software and hardware.” [15:10]
  • Not doom and gloom but a “maturation of the field.” [14:09]
• Host’s Take: The modern landscape requires this maturation, even as it leaves nostalgia for simpler, hobbyist-driven times. [15:58]

6. Encouraging Curiosity and Mentorship in the Field

• Conference Culture:
  • Black Hat and similar events have become crucial spaces for mentorship and real connection—“meet and greets” with veterans and accessible networking help newcomers. [18:01]
• Education Advice:
  • Kyle’s 3 Pillars for Students/Newcomers:
    1. Master the fundamentals (networking and coding). [19:35]
    2. Get hands dirty: “Create your own lab... that’s where I practically learned...” [19:35]
    3. Embrace soft skills: “Ability to effectively and concisely communicate... Being able to break down complex topics...” [19:35]

7. The Power of Soft Skills & Storytelling

• Importance:
  • “Facts don’t change people’s minds, stories do.” [21:24]
  • Kyle makes all students practice public speaking and recommends Toastmasters—valuable for any technical professional. [21:52]
  • Book recommendation: Duarte’s Resonate for learning persuasive storytelling. [22:56]
• Impact:
  • Technical leaders must communicate risk in relatable, compelling ways—otherwise, “you lose impact.” [24:13]

8. Sustaining Curiosity in High Pressure Roles

• Tactics:
  • Keep asking “what if?”—schedule curiosity and experimentation into your week. “Schedule time for that what if question... Even 15 years doing research, I still do that.” [24:38]
  • Embrace intellectual humility: “I don't know, but I'm committed to finding out... The smartest...are the first ones to say they do not know.” [26:02]
• Encouraging Team Creativity:
  • Block out time for research with a deliverable—apply the “pickle jar” approach to scheduling (schedule big/important tasks first). [27:15; 27:42]

9. The Future of Hacker Culture

• Aspirations:
  • Hopes the term “hacker” will be reclaimed as a force for “good and innovation...creative problem solving and the advancement of secure technology.” [29:37]
• Practical Step:
  • Listeners should help improve public perception by correcting inaccuracies in media and conversation:
    • “I correct them and have them try to use correct terminology.” [30:15]

10. Core Values, Old and New

• Constant:
  • “Relentless curiosity.”
  • “Unyielding integrity” in research, and belief that “knowledge gains value when shared.” [30:59]
• Still Evolving:
  • Moving from patience with problems to patience with people.
  • Shifting from technical purity to pragmatic impact.
  • Evolving “from a right to speak to a responsibility to listen.” [30:59]

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Hacker Mindset:
  • “Someone that's endlessly curious...I think that that's fundamental to the quote, unquote, hacker mindset.” – Kyle Wilhoyt [09:19]
• On Old School Hacker Culture:
  • “All you cared about was what they were capable of doing with a computer or by bending technology and kind of stressing what was possible with technology.” – Kyle Wilhoyt [05:17]
• On Failures and Learning:
  • “If the data proves that your hypothesis is wrong, it's still the conclusion at the end of the day.” – Kyle Wilhoyt [10:57]
• On AI’s Impact:
  • “Automation, generative AI...is facilitating and fueling cybercrime at a rate that we haven't seen.” – Kyle Wilhoyt [12:29]
• On Professionalization:
  • “The loss of just open and free information sharing.” – Kyle Wilhoyt [14:09]
  • “Knowledge is a shared resource. And what I mean is I fundamentally believe that knowledge gains value when it's shared.” [30:59]
• On Curiosity:
  • “Schedule time for that what if question. Schedule time to hypothesize research and then execute on that research.” [24:38]
• On Humility:
  • “The smartest and most brilliant people I've ever worked with and met are the first ones to say they do not know.” [26:09]

Important Segment Timestamps

• Hacker Mindset & Early Influences: [00:26]–[04:06]
• Defining ‘Hacker’ & Culture Evolution: [05:03]–[07:37]
• Influences and ‘What if?’ Thinking: [09:19]–[11:21]
• AI’s Impact on Culture & Technique: [12:29]–[13:52]
• Professionalization--Losses & Gains: [14:09]–[15:58]
• Mentoring & Advice for Newcomers: [18:01]–[21:24]
• Soft Skills and Communication: [21:52]–[24:19]
• Sustaining Curiosity: [24:24]–[26:02]
• Scheduling Creative Time/‘Pickle Jar’ Story: [27:42]–[29:04]
• Future Hacker Culture & Listener Action: [29:37]–[30:26]
• Core Values & What’s Evolving: [30:59]–[33:32]

Final Thoughts

David and Kyle weave a powerful narrative about hacker culture’s roots in curiosity, experimentation, and community. Their conversation spotlights the importance of open knowledge sharing, the role of innovation fueled by both individuals and organizations, and the need for both technical depth and excellent communication. Whether reminiscing about magazine-scouting days or forecasting the future, the episode ultimately calls for a reclamation of the term “hacker” as a positive force and for every listener—novice or expert—to push themselves and their community towards curiosity, humility, and shared progress.