Ben Johnson / Matt LaFleur - a new rivalry, but for how long?

Summary

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Dan Bernstein Unfiltered – Episode Summary

Episode: Ben Johnson / Matt LaFleur - a new rivalry, but for how long?
Host: Dan Bernstein, with Matt Abbatacola
Date: January 8, 2026
Podcast: Dan Bernstein Unfiltered (312 Sports)

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Overview

In this no-holds-barred edition of Dan Bernstein Unfiltered, Dan and Matt dive deep into rising drama around the Chicago Bears’ wildcard showdown against the Green Bay Packers. The episode explores how the match’s outcome could impact Packers head coach Matt LaFleur’s future, examines the economics and psychology of NFL coach contracts, and draws parallels to broader sports management scenarios. The conversation then shifts to Bears’ secondary controversies, major Cubs roster moves, and the intermingling of Chicago-Milwaukee sports rivalries. The back half lightens up with fast food legal debate (the McRib lawsuit!) and ends with signature banter on Chicago’s dining scene—plus a dose of NBA and college hoops talk.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Matt LaFleur Contract/Rivalry Drama

• Packers’ Head Coaching Uncertainty ([00:00]–[11:56])
  • LaFleur is entering the final year of his contract, notably underpaid versus peers (Ben Johnson making $13–15M/year vs. LaFleur's third of that).
  • Packers’ new team president, Ed Policy, declined to pick up the extension—generally a sign of impending change.
  • Dan: “No coach wants to go into the next season and have every single outcome…feel like it's Armageddon, that they're coaching for their lives at that point.” ([02:15])
  • Matt notes the Packers’ pattern of playoff underachievement is becoming unacceptable given their division-win expectations and storied history.
  • Possibility: LaFleur is let go if Packers lose, extension if they win, but Dan calls the notion “somewhat preposterous”—the fate of a coach should not hinge on a single game.
  • Matt: “It may sound meatballish, but this game, win or lose, could determine his fate.” ([08:05])
  • Analogy to the market: Who'd you rather hire, LaFleur or ex-Bears coach Matt Nagy? Both agree LaFleur is more attractive on the open market.
  • Brief side-rumor: Dolphins HC opening and wild-card coaching carousel, with talk of John Harbaugh as a “back-channel” candidate for Miami.

Notable Quotes

• Dan ([03:10]): “If you’re Policy…you’ve got to know whether or not regardless of what happens in this game…that you would actually base your decision…on the bounce of a ball in a game. That’s crazy to me.”
• Matt ([05:16]): “If they don’t advance in the playoffs…he will no longer be the head coach of the Packers…They have higher expectations than the McCaskeys and Bears.”

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Bears Secondary Controversies

• The Tyrique Stevenson “Mystery” ([11:56]–[19:38])
  • Frustration over CB Tyrique Stevenson’s healthy scratch in the last game—replaced by corners who underperformed.
  • Dan and Matt suspect deeper locker room or “mindset” issues, referencing comments about Stevenson’s “preparation” and “mindset” from coaches.
  • Dan criticizes defensive coordinator Dennis Allen’s vague answers: “That's not good enough. Why do you feel better about them? Why didn't you even want to see him? I want to know these things.” ([14:56])
  • Matt is adamant: “There has to be more to it, because…they were trailing guys with the ball the entire game…He was your best defensive backfield player outside of Kevin Byard for the first half of the season. What happened?” ([15:10])

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MLB Hot Stove: Cubs Trade

• Cubs Acquire Edward Cabrera ([19:39]–[25:07])
  • Dan and Matt are bullish on the Cubs trading for pitcher Edward Cabrera from the Marlins (giving up #1 system prospect Owen Caissie and minor leaguers).
  • Both support “playing for now”—prospects are assets to use to win in the present.
  • Dan: “This gives you another quality arm…of which you cannot ever have enough. Ever.” ([21:51])
  • Debate between Bregman or Bichette as trade/free agent targets to reinforce the infield and lineup.

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Sports Economics & Roster Construction

• Spending, Market Value, and WAR ([25:08]–[27:44])
  • Dan walks through fangraphs’ “dollars” column as a way to measure a player’s value in WAR x market value.
  • Argues Cubs should ignore luxury tax concerns, prioritize winning: “No fan should care whether or not you’re paying a luxury tax.” ([27:07])
  • Matt sums up: “The fan should care about putting out the best possible team to win a World Series this year.” ([27:44])

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Chicago–Milwaukee Rivalry Psychology

• Rivalry Bleed (Cubs/Bears/Packers/Brewers/Blackhawks) ([27:44]–[35:42])
  • Anecdote about a Blackhawks fan yelling “Fuck Green Bay” during a solemn moment—a humorous snapshot of Chicago fandom.
  • Dan on the fan logic: “Your threshold for deciding to do that is…to make your statement about Green Bay…and the response is, ‘Yeah, he’s right.’” ([30:42])
  • Digression into hockey history (Glenn Hall, Bob Pulford) and the evolution of goalie techniques.

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Fast Food, Lawsuits & the McRib

• McRib Class Action Lawsuit ([53:42]–[67:00])
  • Dan presents Matt as Chicago’s “expert” on the McRib to analyze a lawsuit claiming McDonald's misleads customers—the “rib” is made of pork shoulder, tripe, and stomach.
  • Matt’s rant: “It’s a McDonald’s sandwich, folks. It’s called the McRib…You know what you’re getting when you go get it. Don’t be assholes. Lawsuit against McDonald’s. That’s ridiculous.” ([57:08])
  • Discussion of food nostalgia, pork cuts, “butt steak”/top sirloin, and McRib hacks (getting your burger on a McRib bun).
  • Both agree: Suspension of disbelief is part of the fast-food experience.

Memorable Matt Moment

• “When the McRib is out, if you ask nicely…they’ll put your double cheeseburger on the McRib bun…It’s pretty good. I mean, I have a friend of mine who’s done that before.” ([65:49])

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Quick Hits: Hoops and More

• Bulls, NBA Trades, and Local Eats ([39:29]–[53:08])
  • Recap of Bulls’ gritty, undermanned night vs Detroit; modest optimism about young talent (Modestas Buzelis, Ayo Dosunmu).
  • Quirky digression on DePaul–Georgetown’s nightmarish shooting, reflecting the sorry state of local college basketball.
  • Rise of Yuki Kawamura—a 5’8” point guard signed to a Bulls two-way contract—as the answer to “can anyone my height play in today’s NBA?”

Notable Quote

• Dan ([49:02]): “Yuki Kawamura answers…the thought experiment: ‘If somebody were to exist, could a 5’8”, 159-pound person play in today’s NBA?’ The answer is barely, and only if they do all the things he does.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Packers/Bears Stakes: “This game, win or lose, could determine [LaFleur’s] fate.” – Matt, [08:05]
• Bears Secondary Issues: “That was the most disappointing thing. It’s not like they played well…Everyone sees it, from the most casual fan to the guy who breaks down game film.” – Matt, [15:10]
• Chicago Fandom: “The threshold…is to make your statement about Green Bay…during a moment of silence—and the response is, ‘Yeah, he’s right.’” – Dan, [30:42]
• McRib Lawsuit: “It’s a McDonald’s sandwich, folks. It’s called the McRib…Don’t be assholes.” – Matt, [57:08]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [00:00] Packers contract/coaching drama
• [11:56] Bears secondary/Stevenson controversy
• [19:39] Cubs trade analysis and roster construction
• [27:44] Luxury tax, sports economics, and Chicago-Milwaukee rivalry culture
• [35:42] Goalie history, Blackhawks discussion
• [39:29] Bulls, NBA, and Yuki Kawamura
• [53:42] McRib lawsuit and fast food discussion

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Tone & Style

Unfiltered, self-aware, and at times, self-deprecating. Dan and Matt riff in a conversational, irreverent style laced with “big city” sports media energy. They blend smart sports insights with classic Chicago barstool humor (and the occasional food rant).

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For Listeners Who Missed the Episode

This installment delivers everything Chicago fans expect from Bernstein: real talk, wry takes, deep dives, and sharp banter about the real stakes behind the Packers-Bears rivalry (and why it’s just business). If you want football insight beyond "coach hot seat" platitudes, a taste of Cubs optimism, some comic relief about the McRib, and a window into the psyche of Chicago sports, this episode is essential listening.

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Transcript

[A]

Dan Bernstein, unfiltered unfiltered on 312 Sports. Welcome to DBU. We are brought to you in partnership with my bookie and we are counting down the hours. We are 48 plus hours until kickoff for Bears and Packers. And now there's a possibility that the stakes are rising in a way that we didn't consider. And I'm usually loath to do this, but it does make sense when you actually start looking at all of the economic forces involved and in the current NFL climate. Right here. Here's what we know. And you correct me if I'm wrong, Matty. We know that. New packers team president Ed policy. And do we have an official Ed policy, by the way? I'm not sure. Does Hubbard have a codified Ed policy?

[B]

It's a phys Ed policy.

[A]

Okay. I just want to make sure. Because I don't want to run afoul of Ed policy or Ed policy, either one. I just want to make sure that we. That if in fact we have an ED policy, that our best practices are adhering to it in a way that protects us from legal exposure and other kinds of exposure, too, because you never know, depending on the way the policies interact with. But he didn't pick up Matt LaFleur's contract option. So as of right now, next year is the final year of Matt LaFleur's contract, correct?

[B]

Correct.

[A]

And from what we understand, he's not making market money. Correct. Because that's what happens. You sign a contract, the rates go up, and then you feel like you're underpaid. That's the way contracts tend to work when business is growing. It's usually a good situation to be in when you're good at your job. And you know that if you hit the open market, you're very likely to get significantly more money. Like the guy who's across the field from you on Saturday night. Here's Ben Johnson making what, 13 million a year? Yes. Before incentives. Yeah.

[B]

13 mil.

[A]

He could end up at 15, maybe more. And you're making a third of that. So is it possible that this comes to a head because no coach wants to start a year as a lame duck? Everything gets accelerated because no coach wants to go into the next season and have every single outcome and every decision. Make it feel like it's Armageddon, that they're coaching for their lives at that point. The assistants don't want that. When you build a staff, they. Everybody wants to have some sense of security. He'll be going into his eighth year and they've been known for underachieving in the playoffs to this point. Are all of these things correct?

[B]

Yes, they are all correct, which is why I said a few days ago this could be his last time coaching the Green Bay packers, that he could get fired if they don't win this game.

[A]

Yeah. And it may or may not. It may not just necessarily. It's weird to me as all this is going on, if your policy either you just extend him and you say, right now, don't worry about the outcome of this game, because the idea of it is crazy. From the perspective of the leadership of the packers, you've got to know whether or not regardless of what happens in this game, especially if you're talking about rain and snow and sleet, that you would actually base your decision on the job you think this guy is doing based on the bounce of a ball in a game. This, that, that's crazy to me. And yet is it, Is it possible depending it maybe it's such that it's more than the outcome. It's the quality of their play. Maybe they're. They've. The Ed and his people there are just saying, well, we'll. We'll know if he's the man for the job based on how they perform in this game. I don't think that makes any sense either. I think you gotta know, and then it makes you think. Might they get rid of him anyway? Anything short of winning the Super Bowl, I have no idea. It's all somewhat preposterous to me. And then the more you lay out what is actually going to happen in his contract clock and what the market rates are, would he be better off just saying, yeah, fire me somebody in this cycle before these jobs start closing. Another one just opened up this morning, right? Yeah.

[B]

Daniel got fired in Miami, finally.

[A]

So the Dolphins job is open. Everybody's putting staffs together. You certainly don't want the NFL to start turning into college football at this point, but it just, it seems insane to think about, which is why I, as I started this, I kind of rolled my eyes. Like, I can't believe I'm actually talking about this. I can't believe that I'm, I'm humoring this idea. But when you start to think it through, you wonder why he hasn't yet gotten an extension.

[B]

Yeah. I truly do think, you know, going after this is, this will wrap up his seventh season, that if they don't advance in the playoffs this year especially, and you may think it's silly and meatballish that you get knocked out by your division rivals and the team that won the division from you. When you've been winning the division year after year after year, it seems like, you know, for the last two, two decades, to get knocked out and to not advance once again, being the seven seed and getting knocked out, I just. I think that. I truly believe that if they don't advance in the playoffs, at least beyond this game with the Bears, the wild card game, that he will no longer be the head coach of the Packers. I really don't. I really don't. I mean, it's not like he's been there two or three years. He's been there enough. You can't talk about injuries because every team has injuries you have to fight through. And teams that win Super Bowls deal with injuries every year. And I know they lost the best defensive player in the game. That shit happens. It happens. And there are teams that will have more games lost due to injury than the packers, and they will go further in the playoffs. And if this guy is such, you know, the genius that he is, offensively, they should be able to produce more. And they have it with Jordan Love, you know, and on top of that, too, let's look at the Packers. All the division titles they have over the years. How many Super Bowls did Brett Favre go to? Did he go to two, win one, lost one? Is that correct? Or did he win two? I can't remember with Favre.

[A]

No, they. They won the one against one, one, lost one in New Orleans, and then.

[B]

And then Aaron Rodgers won one, lost one. Right.

[A]

I think that's right.

[B]

Or did he only go to one and win one?

[A]

I know he won one.

[B]

Yeah, I think. You know what I think. I think he has as many super bowl appearances as Rex Grossman. I think it's one and one, but at least he won his.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

So, I mean, that's three since Brett Favre. So what is that, the early 90s?

[A]

Okay.

[B]

You know, it's just. It's like.

[A]

It's just.

[B]

It's not. It's not enough. And so you may. You may say, and I'm not. I'm not. I'm not, you know, talking shit about Green Bay. They have very high expectations because they win more than they lose. They've won this division so many times, and it wouldn't surprise me, after seven years, you haven't gone. That's enough. They have higher expectations than the McCaskeys and the Bears have had over, you know, their time.

[A]

It's just interesting where it puts them in the cycle. If that is the case, and why you would you put yourself in a disadvantageous position to string it out and say, all right, what, what if they fall on their face in the NFC Championship? What if they, they beat the Bears soundly and they end up. Or, or they, or they get humiliated in the Super Bowl? Any of these possibilities? That's not when you want to make the move. That's not when you want to bring somebody in and start putting a staff together from the dregs that are left from around football. You don't want that.

[B]

That's why I truly believe, as meatballish as it may sound, this game, win or lose, could determine his fate.

[A]

But the other side of the fate would have to be an extension. Then you would think so.

[B]

You would think so. Which is crazy to think that this game could have bearing on his extension. Not only his, his coaching future, but an extension as well. Because he's not going to coach in the final year of a deal. It's not. I mean, coaches just don't do it.

[A]

As you pointed out, especially when he.

[B]

Knows you're not going to do that.

[A]

And he knows that he would have value elsewhere. That he knew that I'm the open market right now, that if you start looking at the available candidate, who'd you rather have, LaFleur or Negie?

[B]

Matt LaFleur.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think a question.

[A]

I think a reasonable person immediately would make that decision. Even if you were fair and considered and had everybody come in for an interview. He's. That you'd much rather have him coach your team. Yeah.

[B]

And I think that that owner down in Miami, I think he, I'm sure there were, there were back. Back channel conversations about John Harbaugh of his interest in that. I'm, I'm serious. I really, you know, Stephen Ross is that kind of guy that would do that to figure out, hey, you know, what's your interest in this Miami job? Because I would have assumed Mike McDaniel would have been fired earlier in the week than waiting until today. So I wouldn't be surprised if there was a conversation and John, John Harbaugh ends up in Miami.

[A]

I wouldn't either. If in fact John Harbaugh wants to keep doing this, but then he's going to need. Is he going to bring Todd Monkin with him?

[B]

I would think so, because that's part of the reason why he got fired in Baltimore, because he didn't want to launch Todd Monkin.

[A]

Right. Well, that's his offensive guy.

[B]

That's his guy Right. Yeah. I would think that would go together.

[A]

Because that when you're committing and telling Tua, because if you're still tied to Tua, boy, this is. There's. There's a lot going on right now. I just think the fact that the Bears could. Could theoretically in some way play a role in the packers decision making on their head coach makes it feel like they're in a pretty powerful position at the moment. It certainly makes Ben Johnson and who knows what this actual personal rivalry is or what the personal feelings. I just. I wonder how that affects things. I hope it doesn't make either guy stupid. I hope if there are individual opportunities here, whether it's whatever enmity exists or it's somebody like LeFleur thinking he's coaching for his job, I wonder if he's like, screw it, I'm. I'm pulling out all the stops and we're going to do whatever we have to do to win this game. We're going to show him everything. We're going to cash in all our, you know, everything that we had.

[B]

You know, it's very possible too, Dan, that they, that they've had those conversations already. And it's just, hey, don't worry. We'll take care of the contract. Let's let this season play out. It's been a tough year, you know, losing Parsons, Jordan got hurt. I mean, I get it. So let's finish out this season. We'll worry about that in the off season. Don't worry. You're our guy for the future. They could have had that conversation. This is, of course, stupid talk, too.

[A]

Well, that's the thing. That's. That's why I'm generally reluctant to do it. Yeah, I know, but it doesn't. Stranger things have happened in the NFL and this was. And people are going to say, well, yeah, it was Florio. This was another one of those Florio things that happened. Okay. But crazy stuff happens in this league all the time. So I don't think a single outcome on a windy night in Chicago on the Lakeshore should be a referendum on whether or not someone is the right coach for a franchise for the next five years.

[B]

No, and I think you're correct on that. But I wouldn't say that this is the referendum. This could be the final piece.

[A]

Right.

[B]

What is already leaning towards that decision.

[A]

You're right.

[B]

We never know. Or like I said, they could have had the conversation and there's a, you know, three year extension waiting for him. And what we just did is waste both of our Time for the last 11 minutes.

[A]

Well, I apologize for nothing. The football playoffs are here, and my bookie is where you turn bets into bankroll. Everybody is betting, and the NFL is in full do or die mode as well, as we were just discussing. In a lot of levels, college football's down to the last teams. There are playoff games the next couple of nights, and then we will know the competitors for the national championship. And the super bowl is within our sight right now. So if there's ever a time to get in the game, it's right now. And my bookie could not make it easier for you to play. It's one account. It's one wallet. You want to bet the spread, you want to live bet the second half. And then during commercials, you can hit the casino. It's all there. It's all in one place. And you have that power. All you need to do is go to MyBookie AG and use our promo code. It's DBU for Dan Bernstein, unfiltered, just those three letters, DBU. And what that does, when you register and make your deposit, it covers your first bet up to 500 bucks. And then if it doesn't hit, you use your bet back bonus token and you run it back. So that way you don't just watch the playoffs, you can make them pay. Bet anything, anytime, anywhere. Only at my bookie. I'm. I'm not going to let Dennis Allen make this so easy as he tried to do yesterday. And yes, it was Wednesday. That's because the game is Saturday. So defensive coordinator availability day got moved up. And Dennis Allen essentially said, we're, we're not as bad as the numbers look. We're good at some things. And the reason why Tyreek Stevenson didn't play in the last game is we didn't want him to, was essentially what they said. We feel better. We feel good about Nishan Wright and Jalen Johnson. That's why I don't know if I don't believe him or I just don't understand it, or a combination of both. Why do you feel better about these guys who are getting burned right and left? Why do you feel better about that? How bad is Tyreek Stevenson in practice? What happened? Why all of a sudden did you decide he couldn't even get a shot to play in that game? He didn't even get a chance to prove he was better or worse in that game when these guys were routinely getting burned. Right. That's what I don't. It's one thing if the corners had a Great game. And he said, look, they. We had. We had coverage sacks. We had all kinds. We took a side of the field away. They didn't play well. So to then say sort of puffy, chestedly, we feel better. We're the. We're the coaches, and we're right because it's our decision, and this is what we do right now, that's not good enough. Why do you feel better about them? Why didn't you even want to see him? I want to know these things.

[B]

Yeah. I'm going to trust my instincts on it. And there's more to it. That's all there is to it. There has to be more to it. And I'm looking forward to having our conversation with Herb Howard on forward progress today. So if you want more information, I'm sure that Herb will have more to share and tell about what could possibly be behind this, because, again, I'm going to trust my feelings on it. And it just. It doesn't feel right. And if it doesn't feel right, there's probably more to it because as you pointed out, that that was the most disappointing thing. It's not like they played well. It's not like they each had a pick or defended passes. They were trailing guys with the ball the entire game. Both guys were. Both guys were getting beat. And, hey, that's a very talented quarterback. Those are talented wide receivers. I mean, one of the best in the game in St. Brown. So, you know, no judgment there against those guys to be like, why couldn't you play better? They just played so poorly. And here was a guy who was your best defensive backfield player outside of Kevin Bayard for the first half of the season. What happened that he couldn't even get on the field when these guys didn't look that good, they didn't play that well. And everyone sees it, from the most casual fan to the guy who breaks down game film. And Jalen Johnson is not the same guy just yet. And again, he's recovering from surgery. I understand that that is very difficult to do in the course of a season. So why could this guy not even get on the field? There's more to it. There has to be more to it.

[A]

Here's what he said regarding Stevenson. I think it really comes down to, you know, whatever opportunities any of us get, taking advantage of those opportunities. I know he's preparing really hard this week. Today's the first day we'll go out and practice. I think he's in the right mindset and, you know, hopefully he'll Go out there and take advantage of whatever opportunities he gets. That sounds to me like there is something else going on.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

But he did say that there was going to be a plan for him this week.

[B]

So two things stick out. He mentions he highlights preparation, practice, and he highlights his mindset. Something happened where his mindset wasn't correct or his preparation was incorrect going into that Lions game. And I don't know why it's so difficult to say that if that's one of those two things. Because we've talked about this before with Tyreek Stevenson. Why now would we not talk about those things? Like, hey, he just didn't show up in practice this week. He didn't give us what we needed in practice, and practice dictates your game time. It's just that simple. Ben said that weeks ago in the season. Or maybe he was pissed off about them talking about giving Jalen more time. Or maybe. Maybe we don't know what happened after he came. He sat the first half and then started the second half of that game when Jalen Johnson got pissed. Who knows? But it's okay to share those things at a surface level without getting into great details because we're not part of the team.

[A]

Was he asked about what Jaquan Brisker said?

[B]

Not that I can recall that he was.

[A]

Because that's the other thing I would like to know. Because you're starting safety. A veteran said, we got out, schemed, and that's on Allen. That's what he was saying. And if you're sitting in that room, I think you gotta ask him. Is Brisker right now that you've looked at the film, now that you understood what. What was being done, your starting safety didn't like your work. Right. What do you have to say about it? I think it would be important to know, but that's just me. And if, in fact, that had something to do with why Stevenson didn't play, which also doesn't make sense. If you say we're going to be more man than zone. That was Stevenson's specialty.

[B]

It's what he's better at.

[A]

Yeah. So that even that doesn't make sense to me. So I hope over the next couple days that this. This is going to become a little clearer and you're running out of time here for, I guess, for it to matter, or are you just going to kind of run out the clock on any of this? And if it'll be sorted out next week or they hope it'll disappear next week at the Bears win. I don't know. But when you talk about December, we're going to be playing our best football in December. When you've got a healthy player and a healthy, highly drafted, successful player, guys made plays for you this year who you're keeping off the field because you don't want him on it, that merits further explanation that we have yet to receive.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Period. That's how I look at it. So obviously we're going to do a ton more bear stuff on forward progress today and we're going to dive deep into a lot of what's going on with the team and their preparation and everything else and this, this strange turn toward what's, what might be at stake for the packers going in. Also, we're following the weather forecast. It looks like it's moderated a little bit where it appears that rain is a possibility and the wind is a possibility. I've seen on the bad side, I've seen the possibility of heavy snow and 40 mile an hour wind gusts. But that looks like you're laughing, but it looks like a possibility and not necessarily a probability. The other big news story yesterday was a Cubs trade and I think a good one. I think it's, it's the, it's a great move and maybe not exactly for some of the specific reasons that are being discussed, but Edward Cabrera unofficially and his plus change up and his sweeper and his curveball and with his new arm slot, the 27 year old right hander is coming to the Cubs in exchange for Owen Casey and a couple of lower level prospects. So I'm not really worried about the other names as experts in these things are explaining that I don't really need to be all that concerned about shortstop Christian Hernandez and infielder Edgardo De Leon, that that's not a big deal, that Owen Casey is probably likely to be a decent major league player. But this is why you have prospects. I'm not, I'm not worried for a second. I hope he's great. Go ahead. That you've, you're, you're in for now. You are playing for now. It's also hilarious to me that saying, well, he's not a number one starter. He's he's going to be the number three or the number four starter because Justin Steele is coming back and Kate Horton is the likely number one. Stop doing that. By the time it matters, there's no number one until you see who's healthy. And if there is a lesson in this game over 162 over six months, pitchers get hurt I always feel that I'm sort of the, The. The Grinch on these things. When it comes to, like, looking at an NFL schedule and saying, we don't know who's hurt yet. Looking at that and say, we don't know who's quarterbacking these teams. You have no idea once the playoffs start, what your pitching rotation is going to look like or what your bullpen is going to look like. This gives you another. Another quality arm of which you cannot ever have enough. Ever. Yeah.

[B]

Right now the. The order doesn't matter. It's about having the. The quantity of arms, of quality arms. And I like the fact that he's 27. This isn't some guy in his early 30s that, you know is on the other half of what his career could be. He still could be on the rise at 27 years old. Yeah. Are you disappointed about Owen Casey? Sure you are. But Owen Casey's not winning you a World Series this year. Better quality pitching is going to win you a World Series, get you deeper in the playoffs, and that's just what you need to do.

[A]

So.

[B]

And then you mentioned that's why you have prospects. And I know he's the number one prospect in your organization, but that's what you part with. To get what you need is the number one.

[A]

And you draft more and develop more and just keep doing things that just create your pipeline of players who other teams think are good and might want. And they become resources that you can kind of create on a whole cloth, and your draft picks and some bonus money, and you get them in your system, you make them good. They. He got a. He looked a little overwhelmed at times trying to make contact at the major league level, but he's viewed, at the very least, as somebody who can be a platoon player. And the Cubs still need to add another bat.

[B]

Yes, they do. I think that's a bigger issue than that. Owen Casey's gone from the organization. They need to add a big bat.

[A]

Yeah. And I was skeptical of the idea of having a Casey Ballesteros platoon, perhaps going at one spot anyway, when you're trying to win a World Series. Correct. Right now. And you're in that mode. In which case, as discussed previously in this space, you. You may have to go above your valuation for somebody who contributes to that. If you're going to let Kyle Tucker walk and somebody else is going to pay him 35 million or 40 million a year, whatever somebody's going to get, fine. But then you need Bregman or Bichette. My. My top target. Right now would be Bregman. Yeah. Because of course for a couple of years that, that is a very, very solid major league third baseman who's going to be a four win player for you. Like, you know, for sure, Alex Bregman next year for what you is going to be a four win player.

[B]

Now for me it's, it's Boba Shet. If you can figure something out to get Boba Shet, whatever it takes to get Boba Fett, get him. I'm serious, man. It's, that's, that's, that would be my number one guy. And then you figure out the rest after that. You, you move the pieces around, you do what you have to do to make that work. Would love to have that guy. But of course, you know, if they were to sign Bregman, not gonna, not gonna be upset about that either. So I mean that's just, you know, go out and compete for a World Series in 2026.

[A]

They've got enough money, they have plenty of money to do what they want and maybe you overpay a little bit and that's fine.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

If you go back, if you really want to look at was somebody worth it and is somebody worth the money, you can do that. And fangraphs gives you a really easy way to understand what somebody costs and what somebody's valued by their dollars based on the, the value of a win. And when you have the end of season WAR number, you just multiply that by the value of a win and they keep. There's a column when you go to fangraphs.com and you scroll to the very bottom of a player page, there's a section, the very last section just says value. And if you're not a regular on fan graphs, just a quick tutorial, you just, you type in the player name, you go to the player page, you scroll down to the bottom and it will show you wins above replacement and it will say dollars. And all that is, is the war number times whatever the estimated value of a win is. But by the current open market dollars, it tells you this is what a win costs this year. This, in this economic environment, in this market, this is what, this is what a win over replacement costs. And say this is what this guy was worth. So you can see and even though Kyle Tucker was not great last year, he would look at it and you say, oh well, it was disappointing and they only scored three runs a game in the playoffs or whatever it was. He only had one extra base hit. Yeah, but by actual value it may Pain to hear it, but they. He was worth $36 million last year. He was a four and a half war player and that was worth $36 million to do what he does, and somebody in this market is going to pay him something close to that. So if you want to save on that money, you want to get a little bit less. I don't know really why all of that matters right now. Because you're not in danger of going into that first luxury level, right? Even if we grant them that and that's already playing on their turf rhetorically, that's already giving them the benefit of the doubt. Who cares if you. No fan should care whether or not you're paying a luxury tax.

[B]

Right. The fan should care about putting out the best possible team to win a World Series this year.

[A]

Right?

[B]

That's, that's your, that should be your concern.

[A]

And even granting them a lot of those fears that they have and their, their desires to keep the purse strings tightened, then you can still go get that guy. So do it right. Give yourself the best chance to not be humiliated by the small town team to the north, because once again, things are leading back to the border rivalry. Oh, and might I say, as we're talking about the Cubs and everything that's going on with Milwaukee and the pettiness that they've had with the L flag, I don't know how much that co mingles with Packers Bears stuff. I guess it has to. On some level. It has to. I don't know if people keep it out of this argument, if the stuff around the coffee machine or the water cooler involves that kind of thing. I cannot get over what apparently happened last night at the Hawks game. And this is. Mark Lazarus put this in his Twitter feed and he was reporting this. The Blackhawks asked for a moment of silence to recognize the death of Bob Pulford and that of 94 year old Mr. Goalie Glenn hall, who just passed away. So they have this moment of silence and it's Gene Honda like, now we observe a moment of silence for Glenn hall and Bob Pulford and apparently somebody yelled out during the moment of silence, someone yelled out, fuck Green Bay. And the best part is the response that there was an acknowledgement. Everyone's like, well, you know, yeah, I guess, you know, it's hard to argue with that. Well, yeah, there's the psychology of the response to that of the Chicago Blackhawks fan, I just find hysterical. To me, it's because you're transgressing in the moment that you are taking. You're Making it about yourself. And you're deciding to, on one level, dishonor the memories shared of not just Bob pulford, not just Mr. Goalie, but both at the same time as they have departed the earth. And yet your sentiment, your rationale, the threshold for deciding to do that is to. Is to make your statement about Green Bay as we're this close to Bears, packers, and the response is, yeah, he's right.

[B]

Yeah. No, not guys, guys, not wrong. As inappropriate as it may have been in the moment, he was not at all incorrect. And Glenn hall too, by the way. 502 regular season consecutive starts. If you add the playoffs, Dan.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

552 consecutive starts in goal. Just insane. And the. The second. The second highest number there, the behind Glenn hall is 257. Dude went 502. 552 with playoffs. And the next number is 257. Of course, if you're a younger person. The Blackhawks won the Stanley cup in 1961 with Glenn hall minding the net. And of course we know. We gave our show tribute to Bob Pulford the other day and gave him the recognition and honor he was due.

[A]

Indeed.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Now I know Glenn hall, he did not wear a mask because goalies, they didn't wear masks. And they would stand on head, they would. They would lie down on their side and stack the pads because what was interesting was they would also stand up and try to kick the puck away. Kick save and a beauty. But it was interesting that they would put their face closer to the ice as strategy while not wearing a mask.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

The idea, you cannot stack the pads, as they say, without lying down on your side in the crease. Right.

[B]

Getting your face closer to the ice, therefore likely to be hit by a.

[A]

Skate or a stick.

[B]

A stick. A puck coming in low, for sure.

[A]

Yeah. I don't know who would advise that. Say, listen, whatever you do, don't wear a mask and get your face and your head as close to the danger as possible. And that's going to be your job.

[B]

I thought. Didn't Glenn Hall. Didn't he. Wasn't he one of the like, guys who started like the butterfly technique in net? I thought he did.

[A]

That was much later.

[B]

You sure?

[A]

Yeah, I don't. I thought the butterfly came a lot. Like, not even Ken Dryden was, was, was a butterfly guy. You want to put in their butterfly goaltending pioneers. It was probably a Finn. I mean, really, most of the, most of the advancements in goaltending have come from the great coach, erpo Ilonen and what he's done with the Finnish goaltenders. Even Vladislav Tretyak of the Soviet team, who was replaced in the gold medal game or in the US Game, not the gold medal game, by Mushkin. And the fact that Mushkin was put in was what sapped the energy and the belief of the Soviet team because they believe that Trachea should not have been pulled in that game. Well, he shouldn't have been.

[B]

And Mushkin then went on to offense coordinate the Ravens. So Google and not races. Google says the first goalie widely credited with pioneering the modern butterfly style, where goalies dropped to their knees to cover the lower net, was legendary NHL hall of Famer Glenn Mr. Goalie Hall.

[A]

Okay. All right. And the butterfly technique is now considered the standard goaltending technique.

[B]

Right. Later evolved by players like Tony Esposito and Patrick Waugh.

[A]

I learned a lot about this over the last 15 years or so of raising a hockey goaltender and going to all these camps and going to just the goalie specific stuff. Because Jason was technically trained as a hybrid goalie because he was on the electric and gas, the side of the smaller, quicker rather than the big take up space kind of thing. And that was sort of his style and is his style, I guess.

[B]

And he didn't wear a mask either.

[A]

Right. I didn't want him to. I said he was soft, taking it old school. Yeah. I said it was ridiculous. I said no helmet, no mask. What are you. Come on, man. What are you doing? Seriously, what's wrong with you? But he actually. And one of his coaches was friendly with Glenn hall, and he's got an autographed, A personalized autograph signed copy of his book or a book that Glenn hall was a part of.

[B]

Just any old book that Glenn Hall.

[A]

I don't know if he wrote it or not, kid.

[B]

Here's War and Peace. I signed it for you.

[A]

Leo Tolstoy. There you go. Wow. Thanks, Mr. Tolstoy. I don't know. I didn't read it.

[B]

I didn't look at it.

[A]

I'm sure it's great. I don't know. I'm lying. I made that up. It may be awful. I have no idea if it's good or not. But he seemed like a very nice man. And yet I want to know if you are the guy, if you happen to be listening to Dan Bernstein unfiltered, and you're the guy, or, you know, the guy who screamed that out and you can prove it. If somebody's got a Video or just something of the guy who happened to say that during the, the, the moment of silence? I would just love to know.

[B]

Yeah, please email us. Yeah, Dan at 31 2, sports. Matt at 31 2, sports. Let us know. Yeah. If you are that person or know that person, you heard from a buddy who knew that guy or that was the guy he worked with and they went to the game and yeah, let's get in contact with us, please.

[A]

Because somebody had to make the conscious decision, I want to know, was he waiting for. It was like, hey, watch, watch. I know that Gene Honda is going to do a moment of silence tonight. I'm going to this game just so I can do this. Or is it a guy who's four beers in and it just. He was so compelled. He was just so overwhelmed by packers hatred. And the funny thing is the idea of like, fuck Green Bay, it is the most innocuous place. It's, it's, it's not even really worth, like the actual town of. It's. It's a nice little Wisconsin town.

[B]

It's fine. It's fine. Yeah, but, you know, if the packers weren't there. Yeah.

[A]

I did have the only time I had a bad time anywhere near Green Bay. I forgot which packers game I was covering. It might have been the first year we went there. We were staying in Appleton. And I think I've told the story before. I think Connor McKnight knew which bar it was. But there was a bar in Appleton near my hotel. And I went there as I was part of my, my routine the night before a game. And there was an angry guy, like a young guy who was. Just had a scowl on his face. And I think he didn't like having the big city interlopers, members like the Chicago media there in the bar. I'm serious. And he was alone and he went up to the jukebox and kept putting on. It's like the John Mulaney bit about Tom Jones and what's New Pussycat?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This guy kept putting on a song by David Allen Coe, outlaw country star, the guy who wrote Take this Job and Shove It.

[B]

Yeah. Which song was it? Was it you don't even Call Me by my name?

[A]

No, it's called like Long Haired Hippie or something. All right. And it's, it's, it's a really aggressive, angry, long. Is it Long Haired Redneck. And it has to do with a guy in the bar. Yeah, that's. They'd never come to see me in this dive where bikers stare at cowboys who were laughing at the hippies who are praying they'll get out of here alive. I've been to prison. Someone ought to warn him for a. Knock him off his chair. My long hair can't cover up my red neck I've won every fight I've ever fought. This is. This is what it was.

[B]

Sounds like a good one.

[A]

And it's. I actually did like the song, but the guy played it, like, 10 times because he was apparently trying to make a statement about people who were up in his bar. But I don't know. I just felt bad for him.

[B]

He was just that once at a golf trip. Guys trip. And we were at a bar and I played Call Me maybe by Carly rae Jepsen like, 15 times in a row.

[A]

That's fine. It's better. I mean, like I say, long hair. This is a good. No, this is a good song. I don't. I don't really mind the song. And it's just. It's classic outlaw country of my bar and get out of here and I'm going to kick your ass. And.

[B]

Well, you should mind the song because that guy was not a good guy, so.

[A]

No. No, he wasn't.

[B]

Stretch of the imagination.

[A]

No. And I kind of even. I, like, made.

[B]

He would have been, like, the first guy in line for the $50,000 bonus for ice.

[A]

Oh, I'm sure he was rejected. I guarantee you he was in that line and was probably summarily sent away for being too aggressive. I don't even remind me of that today. I can't. I can't. I'm. I'm absolutely just paralyzed with anger and grief about what happened in Minneapolis. So do not. I am. I am. It was just trying to hold it together, watching some of it yesterday. And great job, by the way, by Jacob Fry, the mayor of Minneapolis, not just in the immediate aftermath, but last night that. That live TV hit that. That he did. He was remarkable, and I want to hear more from him. But that's how you do it. Yep, that's how you do it. Agreed. But. But I didn't. I really was not looking forward to tapping into any of that today. I did watch the Bulls, and it was. It was a really interesting game. For 3/4 last night in a bum fest with the Bulls missing a bunch of people and the Pistons not playing Cade Cunningham and not playing Jalen Duran, and they were deep into their bench, but they still have dudes. They still have physical, tough people on that team. And after three quarters, Billy Kennedy's crew was Letting them go at it too. They, they were not calling fouls. There were so many times where I'm waiting for the whistle and even players were expecting a whistle and they're like, no, you're good. Keep playing. And the Bulls played hard for three quarters and then they just got overwhelmed. They're just. Kevin Herder isn't going to be able to deal with these guys like that. And when, when Kevin Herder at times was your best player on the floor, that's a problem because of what he was. He was doing offensively. And say this Modest doesn't back down from anybody. Modest Bou Zealous is a very confident young man and he plays with, with some swagger to his game. And when he and Osar Thompson were facing off against each other and Thompson's swiping at his dribble and, and Modest is backing him out and recognizing some isos. I liked what I saw from, from how hard he was playing. They just, they didn't have enough punch, they didn't have enough athleticism and they got, they get beat up physically. Isaiah Stewart, I don't know what got into him other than the playing time that he got, but Jesus, he was like Carl Malone out there last night. He's. He was, you know, t be shooting threes and flying through the lane and, and he's, he's a pretty good shot blocker for a guy who is not 8ft tall. I want to say he's like third in the league in blocks per game. He goes about a little bit differently. He's got very quick hands. He reminds me of a longtime minor leaguer named Mike Bell who out of Oklahoma with just these. He's able to shoot his hands into the air very quickly and purposefully and there's not a lot of wasted movement in his defense. But I thought for a while and I thought I o played brilliantly and was knocking down shots, but they just, they turned it over too much and they got, they got beaten into submission by a team that kept coming at him in waves and just kept deflecting balls and they made everything very difficult. But it was, it was not, it was not a bad effort for the most part in that game.

[B]

Yeah, I was in the car a few times last night and would have the game on and at one point it was like 77, 76. I think what it was, the Bulls might have even been up by one point there and then. Yeah, what was it like a 14 or 15 point final at the end during, during the broadcast. I was Listening to it, they'd mentioned the. The Georgetown and DePaul game.

[A]

Did you.

[B]

Did you check in on this a couple days ago? So DePaul beat Georgetown, and Georgetown was 1 for 23 in the second half.

[A]

Yikes.

[B]

And they only lost by six.

[A]

I was like, college basketball, folks.

[B]

Yeah, so they mentioned that. And I'm like, wow, one for 23. That's really fucking bad. So I was like, I'm gonna check the box score out my phone. And I was like, oh, I expected. I expected to. Paul, if someone tells you that a team goes one for 23 and a half, you think it's gotta be at least. I mean, minimum a double digit loss, right? If not, maybe.

[A]

Or some kind of record. Yeah. The worst loss in how long? Yes.

[B]

And it was 56 to 50. And I'm like, oh, okay.

[A]

All right. Well, it's possible part of that was wrong, but.

[B]

No, it wasn't wrong. I went through and I looked at.

[A]

Yeah, okay. All right.

[B]

Not good.

[A]

And we've got. The Bulls are playing the Heat tonight. Kobe White may be coming back, or they're going to at least look at him and shoot around and we'll find out. But that's up against the college football game. So they can play tonight.

[B]

Yeah, well, I don't know. Will they play with the college football games on? I mean, they probably won't want to play with. I mean, that's a big college football game on. Here you go.

[A]

Salty Matt is still mad that the Bulls want to watch the packers game. All they said was they want to watch the game.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he won't play tonight. Not with Miami playing. Right. Miami game. I'm not. I mean, how will he. How will the Heat want to play? God, the Heat might forfeit that game. I mean, how could. How could NBA players play a game when there's a big college game on? Dan, this gets into. I mean, you win this, you go to the national championship. How could any other professional player want to play their game? I don't get it.

[A]

Yeah, you made. I really don't. Made some people mad yesterday with.

[B]

Yeah, you know, there was. It was funny Dan. And here's the thing. So we launched this. This podcast network August 24th, 25th, I think.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Whatever it is. Off by a day. We. I haven't worked a day since then. So, like, don't think that I'm sitting here thinking, oh, my God, I'm working so hard. I don't work either. Like, we talk about. We talk about Ice Cream. And we talk about, like, wieners. And we watch games and we talk about.

[A]

Wait till the next segment. Yeah.

[B]

So, I mean, like, this isn't a real job. I understand that. I get that. Like, it's not lost on me. And there was, like, few comments that were like, oh, you guys talk about sports. Yeah, I know. I don't work. I haven't worked. I didn't work for 17 years when I was at the score. It was great. I get paid to go do that stupid shit, and I get. I'm getting paid to do this stupid shit now.

[A]

Yeah. But some of the days with the callers, you. I think you got your money's worth.

[B]

Well, that's why I'm so happy right now. These have been this amazing four months of doing this because we don't take callers.

[A]

You're not picking up the phone and slamming it and throwing it off the back wall.

[B]

I got to tell you what, Dan. I'm in the car, and whenever I've turned the score on or I'm listening to espn, dude, like, when they. When they start taking phone calls, I'm like, it's unbelievable. Oh, and I actually. I heard the guy. There was an email that was sent in.

[A]

Oh, about the guy, about John Harbaugh.

[B]

Some guy wanted to fire Ben Johnson to hire John Harbaugh. I heard that call, and I was like, what? I'm like, what are you talking about? It's made me so happy that we don't. We don't take phone calls. I love the interaction because. Because the emails and the audio messages, I mean, you can get some mouth breathers there, but, like, the emails, like, the really dumb people don't email. They can't take that time to put sentences together. So I love all the interaction that we get. Yeah. Taking phone calls is probably the. It's the worst thing, man. I was listening to. I had. I had. I was listening to Rich Eisen yesterday. He had Jesse Palmer on, and I'm listening to their conversation, and then afterwards, like, Rich Eisen's taking phone calls. I'm like, dude, stop doing that.

[A]

Rich Eisen was taking phone calls.

[B]

He takes phone calls in his show. I'm like, bro, like, just stop doing that. Like, you. You've got enough stuff. You got enough connections, and people just talk.

[A]

Yeah. I would tune in to hear what he thinks.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, don't take phone calls ever. But anyway, hopefully that Miami Bulls game happens. Oh, no, that's tonight. That game's tonight. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Hopefully the game happens because. Yeah, if the Heat don't show up because they want to watch that college game, I God bless them. I don't blame them.

[A]

I have one other basketball, actually two other basketball notes. One is I saw the trade of Trey Young to Washington for CJ McCollum and Corey K. And I hope both teams like what they have. I just keep laughing when they're saying like the Young era is over in Atlanta. Is that an era? Does he get an era? I know they made it to the conference finals and he's really famous and he puts up a lot of numbers. But I would never trade for Trey Young.

[B]

I would never trade for him. And you know, he's a fun, fun, fun guy to watch play.

[A]

But you know what?

[B]

I was surprised in that trade looking at those, those that it was exchanged. I didn't realize CJ McCollum been 13 years in the league.

[A]

Oh, he's been a brilliant player too. He's still averaging that long.

[B]

Yeah, no, he's really good player. Really good. I mean like if you, if just by your name, your name stands out in my brain from the NBA, then you must be really good player because.

[A]

I don't know, he's on that list. He's on that like the Rudy Gay, Jamal Crawford list of the best players to not ever make an all star team.

[B]

Okay. Yeah, he's a good player. And then they also got Corey, Corey Kispert.

[A]

Yep, Corey Kispert is a 39% three point shooter.

[B]

Seems like you should rebound more though.

[A]

Responsible veteran player. I would, I would compare him to like a Kyle Korver type.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

You know, he's, he's, he's a shooter guy, but not a material difference maker. He can certainly be a rotational player on any kind of team you want because of what he does, but it doesn't really move the needle much for me. A trade between Washington and Atlanta. Okay. And Atlanta's been better without him. You know, it's. And the Bulls have done well against Atlanta in large part because I. Odesumu has done such a good defensive job on Trey Young. So let him keep doing it. The other note for the Bulls is Yuki is back. Yuki Kawamura is back. He has been signed on a two way contract. Trenton Flowers has been waived. And if you did not get a chance to watch Yuki Kawamura before with his other NBA teams or if you hadn't seen him in the preseason, he answers a question. And the question is when you are out watching a game or you're sitting around watching the game and like he's Yuki Kammer's my height, he's 5, 8. My son is also 5, 8. And any of those silly questions that you get from somebody is like, hey, do you think I could play in the NBA? If like the stupid people say, well, if I were 7ft tall, I could play in the NBA? No, if you were 7ft tall, you'd suck and you would still not be in the NBA because there's a lot of seven. There's thousands of seven footers that can't play in the NBA because they're bad. What the questions that Yuki Kawamura answers, it's a, it's the, the thought experiment. If somebody were to exist, could a 5, 8, 159 pound person play in today's NBA? The answer is barely and only if they do all the things that Yuki Kawamura can do in the way that he does them. So when you watch him play and you watch his execution, his ball handling, his decision making, his relentless energy, him making the most out of everything he can possibly do at any point, he's the answer to could a 5,859pound player play in the NBA? Kind of. In this NBA? Kind of. But only if he does all the other things the way that he does them. And when I say this NBA, I'm not talking about you can give me whatever it is, Earl Boykins or Michael Adams or Mugsy Bogues or Spud Webb or the other Isaiah Thomas and say, well, this guy was 5, 6 and this guy was 5, 4, and this guy was 5, 3. Not in this league. Not in this league where you've got regular, you've got six, ten guards, you've got a seven, five guard in San Antonio and you've got a six, ten guard in Kevin Durant. But I'm seeing even, even on the averages, even looking at bench guys where they're switching, you can have a center, point guard, pick and roll. That is switchable. That's not a big deal in this NBA. This above the rim league, it is a different game. I don't watch a game because they don't play the way they used to. Get out of here. That crap. You don't like basketball. All I do is shoot. I don't make these shots anymore. I don't like watching him. Fine. If you like bad basketball, I can't help you. But he shows you what it takes in this NBA to be that size and even to be on a roster, even to be on a two way deal. So it's a long way of saying enjoy and just enjoy. Just keep your eye on him when he's in. If you were a casual observer of the game, he is entertaining. He is a reason to watch all the stuff that he does in his way when he is in the game.

[B]

Yeah. And maybe he'll get a lot of playing time Saturday night while the other.

[A]

Guys sit out so. Because they're too busy watching.

[B]

Too busy watching the Bears.

[A]

All right, now this. I need to spend some time with a story that we're going to use. I would like to present as an. As an expert witness for testimony here. I'm going to ask that any opposing side accept Matabatacola as an expert on our next subject. Okay.

[B]

Well, it depends what's the subject?

[A]

And you say, well, why. Why? This is. He's mad about a cola. I mean, I know that he's a. He's an experienced and mult. Talented guy who's had a world of life experiences and professional experiences. He broadcaster, producer, podcaster, and also has been a sales executive, has been a bartender, has helped run restaurants, has been on the hospitality industry. But I will submit that when it comes to the McDonald's McRib, there are few people on this planet who have more experience tracking it, eating it, caring about it. There are few people who allow that sandwich to take up as much of a place in one's mind as this man right here. Is that fair?

[B]

It is very fair. I've received gift packages from McDonald's Corporation based on the McRib.

[A]

Yes. Yes, you have. They have sent you. Yes. Product because of your reputation as a. An aficionado of the McRib.

[B]

All right, give it to me. What do you got, Stan?

[A]

A federal class action lawsuit is claiming McDonald's is misleading the public about the contents of his pot of its popular McRib sandwich.

[B]

Oh, Lord.

[A]

This story has been sent to me for you from multiple places. The most recent was our longtime buddy, Scott, and it says, according to the complaint, what McDonald's calls a quote, pork rib patty is actually composed of, quote, lower grade pork products such as pork shoulder, heart, yummy tripe, yummy, and scalded stomach, which I think is what you can get from eating too many of them. McDonald's calling the sandwich a McRib is referred to in the lawsuit as a deliberate sleight of hand. McDonald's deceptive omissions and misleading marketing have resulted in millions of dollars in consumer harm.

[B]

How so?

[A]

For decades, McDonald's has cultivated a sense of anticipation around the McRib, leveraging its scarcity to drive SAL across its many locations. Fans eagerly await each return, trusting that the sandwich they're biting into is exactly what the name implies. A sandwich crafted using pork rib meat, which is prized by consumers for its high fat content and rich flavor. The reality, however, is far from what McDonald's advertising and branding suggestions. McDonald's said in a statement that the lawsuit distorts the facts and many of the claims are inaccurate. They said, we're committed to using real quality ingredients across our entire menu. Our fan favorite McRib sandwich is made with 100% pork sourced from farmers and suppliers across the U.S. we've always been transparent about our ingredients so guests can make the right choice for them.

[B]

Well, however is in this class action lawsuit. You're a bunch of assholes, period. Seriously. It's a McDonald's sandwich, folks. It's called the McRib. All right? Like, they don't advertise. Hey, back for a limited time only. Our 100% pure pork rib sandwich. It's called the McRib. McRib. You know what you're getting when you go get it? Don't be assholes. Lawsuit against McDonald's. That's ridiculous. It's the McRib sandwich. Like, you know exactly what you're getting with it. If you listen. If you want like this really high class elevated pork sandwich, go to your local butcher, grab yourself some fresh pork. You can probably go to the farm where they get it from and get it directly from the farmer and go home, make yourself a pork sandwich, okay? If you want the delicious barbecue, smothered, onion covered, pickles falling off the bun, rib shaped, rib shaped, pork like sandwich, then go to McDonald's and enjoy a McRib. I mean, this is insane.

[A]

The complaint was filed December 23rd in the US District Court for the Northern District of Illinois. The plaintiffs are four consumers from California, New York, Illinois and Washington, D.C. each named plaintiff alleges they would not have purchased the McRib or they would have paid less for it had they known it did not contain any actual pork rib meat.

[B]

What are you new here? I mean, seriously, how long has the big rib been around? Come on.

[A]

I mean, since the early 80s. Yes.

[B]

Like, relax, man. Would have paid less for it. Plus, it's a cheap sandwich too. It's. It's McDonald's. Oh.

[A]

Now here's the other thing too, is I like pork tripe.

[B]

It's a delicious sandwich. I don't care what it's made out of. It's fucking great.

[A]

And I would, I Don't know exactly what scalded stomach is. My guess is scalded stomach is when they would throw it in some hot water, maybe peel away like the honeycomb tripe, or peel away part of it and just have whatever the little protein part is left. But what I would. What bothers me where it says, according to the complaint, it's composed of lower grade pork products such as pork shoulder. Since when is pork shoulder lower grade than ribs?

[B]

Pork shoulder is fantastic. That's good pulled pork sandwich. I mean, that's what you're going to use.

[A]

Yeah, the Boston. But the, the. The what you smoke for. I know in Carolina barbecue, those Boston butts are shoulder meat. Yes. So I'm just, I'm a little surprised that they would immediately accept that shoulder meat is considered lower grade because often at my grocery stores, per pound, often ribs are less than a good pork shoulder.

[B]

Correct. And I would rather have a pork shoulder over a slab of pork ribs. And what are you going to call it? The MC Shoulder. Like, it just doesn't sound as good. Come on in for the MC Shoulder sandwich.

[A]

The mcbutt.

[B]

Right? The mcbut sandwich. Right. No, that's. No one's going to go buy one of those. McRib. Everyone loves ribs.

[A]

I think McBut would be awesome. And just lean in.

[B]

The McButt sandwich.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

No.

[A]

Which is why, if you notice this too, when, when we grew up, there was a steak on menus called the butt steak.

[B]

Yep. Butt steak.

[A]

You ever get a good butt steak? Yes, I used to get one when my dad would take me to a Bulls game and we'd go to, what was it, King Arthur's Court. And it was this incredibly dark restaurant on in the city, and they'd give you these little pen lights. I loved it. I felt like a, like a. That, you know, felt like a chic businessman going to get my steak at my dark steakhouse. And we'd go there before we went to these Bulls games and I would get a butt steak because it was delicious. And then they changed the name because nobody wanted to buy a butt steak. They thought it was actual butt. It's not.

[B]

You know, when I was a kid, my mom would make a butt roast, a pork butt. She'd call it pork butt.

[A]

It is a pork butt.

[B]

Yeah, it's a pork butt. And so. But me and my brothers would. We'd crack out because we're having butt tonight. Always having butt. Always having butt. And so she stopped calling it the pork butt because even though that's what it was. Yeah. I mean, it's. It's a mc. Yeah, it's fine. But, you know, call it the, you know, McButt. I mean, come on.

[A]

Do you know what a butt steak is now? What's it called? Top sirloin.

[B]

Oh, that's what they. Oh, that's the top sirloin.

[A]

That's a butt steak. Okay. That same steak that I would love as a kid. You'd go in, you'd pay your 899 at a nice place, and you get a butt steak and a side. I get a baked potato, maybe a little bit of minestrone soup or something. You were living good, man.

[B]

You check out. I'm going to check out Omaha Steak, see if they got a butt steak on their website.

[A]

My guess is they call it a top sirloin because I would. I would understand that. Yeah. Now I kind of want a steak animic rib. We do this. There's something about when we record that makes me maximally hungry when we talk about food.

[B]

Well, whenever we're. I mean, we're always recording every day. Like, we're both starving. We don't eat, though, because I can hear your stomach across the studio.

[A]

I know. I. Well, I've been better about. Although last night, Red Hot Ranch, if you know, you know, when it comes to Red Hot, I had two double cheeseburgers and. And two fries, but we got an extra fry. We got it. We get the extra fries preventatively because when we. Every time we order Red Hot Ranch, every time I order, or if Jason's home and we order, then the french fry vultures come down.

[B]

Because you'll hear your wife and daughter.

[A]

Yep, you will hear them. The french fry vultures will come down the stairs are, you know, so what we started to do, it's another three bucks. Red Hot Ranch is incredibly inexpensive. Best fries in the city. Peanut oil, hand cut, fresh cut. And the burgers are incredible. So I always get like this distracting, like a box of fries. And I set it over there for the vultures, just in case they're circling and they start picking and they start leaning over your shoulder and there's one that maybe fell to the side and they. All of a sudden, there's a hand here and a hand there. Stop it. Those are my fries. I budgeted for them mentally. Do not take them from me. I could pay another $3 to get you another giant box of fries for the same fries that Al's is going to charge you $9 for that amount. It's two large fries that Red Hot Ranch charges you $3 for.

[B]

I made a coconut Thai curry chicken last night. And look at you. I forgot to make rice, and it was ready, like, I was already done ready to eat. And the boys had spaghetti and I had. I had leftover pasta, so I just. I put it over spaghetti instead.

[A]

Yeah, why not?

[B]

Yeah, it was good.

[A]

You can do that with anything. It was good. A carb is a carb. I've. I've. I'm not going to judge that at all.

[B]

Wait, are my ribs out right now? Because now I want one. I'm gonna have to. After we're done, I'm gonna have to go get a McRib.

[A]

I don't know, but I either.

[B]

They were out recently.

[A]

I don't know if they're deliberate sleight of hand, and I hope they don't have to do too much paying this off. Well, I didn't know this wasn't rib. I. I didn't know that this was scalded stomach. And I would never have paid what I did. You know already that it's something mashed into the shape of ribs and bones, right? It's bone shaped. That it is. They, they, they. They make it look like a slab of ribs that includes bones, and you bite into it. There is a suspense. That's what I would argue. I would argue a suspension of disbelief exists in the very nature of the sh. Shape of the McRib that. That there's no way an individual can claim to be duped when that person is willingly biting into something designed to look like a rib bone that they know isn't right.

[B]

There is.

[A]

There is already a suspension of disbelief inherent in the acceptance of the McRib that I believe supersedes nitpicking the actual ingredients to find rib meat.

[B]

You know, when the McRib.

[A]

I rest my case.

[B]

And it came out. It came back out in November of last year. And I wonder if it's still out because my. My McDonald's had it. I'm gonna have to go there after we're done. But when the McRib is out, if you ask nicely, like say you want to get like a double cheeseburger, but ask them to put it on the McRib bun so they're not stacked, but they're side by side, they'll do that for you.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Because that McRib bun is pretty good. I mean, I've heard. I have a friend of mine who's done that before.

[A]

I've never heard of that. I like It. Yeah, I like it.

[B]

You should try it.

[A]

I'm down.

[B]

Yeah, it's good stuff. And for you, what you could do, Instead of your two double cheeseburgers, just get all four patties on the McRib bun.

[A]

If I would, I would get three McDoubles and make two Mc Triples. Yeah, but I could.

[B]

But you could stack the two on top of each other, side by side with a McRib bunny bun.

[A]

Yeah, but then it's got barbecue sauce on it, which is.

[B]

Well, no, you just ask for the bun. You don't ask for the. Yeah, you don't get the onions and pickles and barbecue sauce. You just ask for the bun.

[A]

Although the onions and pickles, those longer, slivered onions, I love them.

[B]

Yeah, it's great.

[A]

I'm not gonna. But again. But Red Hot Ranch, they've got that sauce on it, and they got dirt. I think it's the best burger in the city.

[B]

So you remember what I used to do when McRib would come out, like, the day it came out?

[A]

Yes. You'd eat six.

[B]

No, I'd get three that day. And then within. Within the first, like, three or four days, I'd probably have at least six to nine.

[A]

He's not kidding. Yeah. This is not an exaggeration.

[B]

And then I was done. I mean, for that time period, then I was. I was good to go.

[A]

And your doctor probably yelled at you.

[B]

Yeah, well, I can't do that anymore. But, yeah, I could go. I could go for one right now.

[A]

Or two.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

You would do two.

[B]

No, no, no, no, no. I'll do one. I'll do one.

[A]

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[B]

I'm really hungry now.

[A]

I'm really hungry. Okay.

[B]

I want to eat. I want to make rib.

[A]

Well, I. I want to make sure before we get started with forward progress that you're in a good place mentally. So if that's what it takes.

[B]

No, I'm good. I'm excited. Looking forward to our forward progress.

[A]

Or why don't. Why don't you just. Why don't you grubhub it or doordash it or something and just. And have it brought down to you?

[B]

I may. I may do that.

[A]

We'll see. I just, I mean, if that's the great thing about the world in which we live, that anything is only a tap of your phone away, including, by the way, three. One, two, Sports.

[B]

That's right. You get the app.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

You can go the Apple App Store or Google Play, make sure you get it. You have it. You can get all the. The current contests we have going on right now.

[A]

Yep. If you use the word eat, you can enter into the drawing the contest for the Morton's Steakhouse certificate, the Smith jets pizza. And we still have the Guns N Roses tickets, Guns n Roses and Public Enemy, their world tour. The promo code for that is bears. But if you haven't gotten the app, get the app. It's everything you need to be a part of all the fun stuff that we're doing here at 312Sports. And this has been Dan Bernstein Unfiltered, brought to you in partnership with my booking.

[B]

Dan Bernstein, Unfiltered.

[A]

Unfiltered on three one, two Sports.