Dan Bernstein (1:39)

Yeah. We start over again.

Co-host/Analyst (1:40)

Okay.

Casey Johnson (1:40)

Yes.

Co-host/Analyst (1:41)

So the decks are clear.

Dan Bernstein (1:43)

And for the record, it was the Vuch trade that made you win.

Co-host/Analyst (1:49)

I did not invoke the other trade of being a facilitator in a three way deal, which is actually kind of deft maneuvering to a point that I hadn't really expected from this particular. But we'll talk about that. We got a lot.

Dan Bernstein (2:02)

We got that.

Co-host/Analyst (2:02)

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Casey Johnson (3:24)

Good to see you guys.

Dan Bernstein (3:24)

Yeah, no.

Co-host/Analyst (3:25)

Good to see you, too. So the Bulls are doing things that some did not them expect them to do. I went back to sort of how they framed this season from the beginning, and I'm really not all that surprised and not unhappy that they're doing some of this stuff because it actually is consistent with what they said this year was going to be. Do you agree?

Casey Johnson (3:50)

Amen. And I, I. I've been watching. You know, obviously a part of what we do is monitoring, you know, fans, and fans hit us up on Twitter, email, or what have you. And, you know, I'm seeing a lot of shock and surprise, and I get it. But for those of us who've been around the team, we're not shocked or surprised at all. The messaging has been consistent from media day on. Our tourists delivered a different message. He did not talk about playoffs or bus. He talked about building while competing. And look, this is the second roster iteration. It took him a long time to get off the last one. That's well documented. We know that. But these moves are consistent with what he's been doing with other acquisitions. And I've been saying for a while, like, you know, that hot stretch at the start of the season, the hot stretch recently, that was not dictating management's thinking. They are taking a long view of this, and they know they need to upgrade their talent and get rid of some players that don't fit the timeline of Modest Ellis and. And Josh Giddy.

Co-host/Analyst (4:54)

You and I have a bit of a history when it comes to Nicola Vuchevic being moved, wasn't I? I think Layla and I were talking to you when that initial trade happened six years ago. Right.

Casey Johnson (5:06)

So when Matt texted me, that's the first thought I had, was like, you should have got me yesterday. We could have celebrated the second voodoo trade because yeah, that's. That was all time radio moment at your old gig Vuch trade from Orlando to Bulls. Now that one was a surprise because when Arturis was hired, we all thought he would follow the model that he and Tim Connolly undertook in Denver, which was a lot of patience building through the draft, keeping the core together. And I was not expecting him to just go boom. Goes to dynamite. Here are two first round picks. See you later. Here comes Nicola Vucevic. And then that set off the chain of events. That's. We all know what would happen. I mean it followed Demar DeRose and Alex Crusoe. Lonzo Ball. That's all over. It's taken a long time to get out of that. This is the new roster iteration and we'll see where it goes. They got a lot of work to do still. They have like maybe you playing center and things like that.

Co-host/Analyst (5:59)

Lachlan Albrecht, baby. Make room. Make room for Lachlan Ulbricht. The. Which is fine. If you lose every game from here on in, that'd be perfect. And if you're going to have nine guards on your roster, whatever it is, and they've got a. How many? One of the two ways. Now with Emanuel Miller gone, they can go out and get some stiff that they want to put out at center if they want, but this might work out just right. If they end up losing out and still thinking they get enough of a look at either Ivy or Simons, I'm thinking you're not going to pay them both, that you're probably going to pick one of those. Ivy being the restricted free agent. So how do you see this all playing out from here on into the off season?

Casey Johnson (6:41)

Yeah, to your first point, Dan, that part has not changed. They are still. I mean they're not like playoffs or bust or in or bust, but they will not like, they will not steer this into the ditch. That's just not how our tourists is. That's not. That's not his M.O. and that has been consistent. So we're seeing, you know, modern NBA in terms of roster machinations and, you know, using cap space to take on distressed assets and things like that. That part is new. The old Part still is. So they're not, they're not going to like, just sit guys and steer this into the ditch. Now they're going to let this play out how it plays out. If they go into the lottery, so be it. But they're going to take a long Runway at the two players that you mentioned and others. And yeah, to your point, I mean, I think the nice thing is you have time to make decisions on both players, but certainly the logical guess would be Ivy as a restricted and less lower salary than Simon's, probably easier to resign. And that's. But you have, you have time to make those decisions. They're going to get a long look at both players, see how they fit with current personnel, see how they fit with the current playing style and then. And then make their decisions in the off season. And look, one last thing. I'd say, like, you know, whatever does or doesn't happen between now and Thursday, they're not done. They're still going to have ability to make moves this off season. So whether that's signing a restrictive free agent to an offer sheet, taking an uneven trade via cap space, they're gonna, they're gonna weaponize that cap space this summer. Not necessarily to sign free agents outright, but just to, to partake in modern NBA trades. And so this week's a big step, and then you're going to see more activity this offseason.

Co-host/Analyst (8:22)

Were you surprised Kobe White played last night? Because I was livid. I didn't want to say malpractice, but when I saw him and he didn't have, you know, a hip contusion or whatever, they wanted to make up. Like why? Because clearly that's the asset right now. That would make sense pre deadline to move.

Casey Johnson (8:44)

Well, I guess your first question, I would say maybe a little. I actually was refreshing the injury report pretty quick, pretty regularly to see if he landed on it mysteriously. And then obviously I got to Milwaukee and started asking around and every indication I got was that he was going to play. And that kind of ties back to what I was saying with that other point. They're. They're not going to steer this into the ditch. These players are wired to play. This organization is wired to have competitive integrity, as we've heard. And so I get that people are surprised, but once I started asking around, I was pretty sure he was going to play, and he did.

Co-host/Analyst (9:20)

I was talking Ivy for a second here because there's no question that if healthy, he's a guy that absolutely can fit what they want to do. He is a two guard with lead guard capability. He. I've seen him run pick and roll with. With spatial awareness. It's just that the quicks aren't back yet. And to me, the medicals are paramount. And if your doctors can say, we expect him to get that first. First step to get that twitch back after what he's been through, then there's an opportunity here. And obviously it all sets up nicely that if another team's doctors think that and they want to make him an offer, you can just match it. But I keep getting back to the success story of Lonzo Ball, which I believe, and doctors have told me that they pulled off a medical miracle, an absolute first of its kind medical miracle, that there will be med school orthopedics classes taught on Lonzo Ball. And if you were good enough to do that, they've built up some capital to be trusted. If they say, yeah, this is a young guy and we expect that he can return to form, then they've really got something.

Dan Bernstein (10:33)

Yeah.

Casey Johnson (10:34)

I mean, and he's passed physical because the trade's been finalized, so there's that. Or will be passing the physical because they wouldn't have announced the trade if they didn't expect that to happen. So. Yeah, I mean, look, I haven't watched Detroit. I've watched him a handful of times this year. I talked to a couple people last night, and they basically said exactly what you said. They don't feel like he quite has gotten. I mean, when he came out of Purdue, he was like a lightning bolt. Right. And that's why he went top five. Very athletic, very fast. I mean, he's still been pretty solid for a very good Detroit team, but doesn't quite. The people I talked to said he doesn't quite have that burst that you were talking about. Can he get that back? He's very young. Bulls are betting on the chance that he will, and they are in a real big driver's seat with him being a restricted free agent.

Co-host/Analyst (11:19)

Where does Zach Collins stand right now? Literally, because the boot is still on. It sounded like the team's starting to waffle a little bit on a return, opening up the possibility that they could just shut him down for the rest of the year. What do we know about what the off season could look like for him and where he could fit into a future plan?

Casey Johnson (11:43)

Yeah, I can just tell you that Billy Donovan loves positional size. Well, Billy Donovan really loves positional size and he loves rim protection and he loves physicality. I mean, you hear Billy Donovan talk about all the time. Those are three things Zach Collins does. And that's why, I mean, if you think back to preseason when Vuch was sleepwalking through the preseason, and I'm not throwing shade of Vuch because he ended up having a very strong year hitting big game winning shots this year, he's been the typical solid player that he's been since he's been in Chicago. But you think back to that preseason, I mean, we were talking in the press room, like, could Zach Collins start? I mean like Zach Collins was like balling out in the preseason. And I would just say, you know, it is in question now and he has had injuries previously in his career. It looked like he kind of hit a period of relative health. But I think this calls into question his future fit with the team just because he can't stay healthy. Yeah, Billy dropped that on us last night that there is, there is a possibility he could be shut down for the rest of the season. And this is why, you know, they need to address the center position again, whether that's by Thursday or the off season because they're pretty thin up there.

Co-host/Analyst (12:56)

I'm glad what you said about cap space, when you contextualized it as being able to participate in sort of big boy NBA moves, a lot of people are still attuned to the old way of thinking where cap space is. Oh, you have to just preserve all this to go get a star. And really that isn't, that isn't necessarily the way you build teams anymore. And it would be a strange acceleration of what had been a patient plan for the Bulls to do that. So how do you see an attention to roster flexibility actually fitting in to a plan? Because a lot of teams just like to say we want to be flexible, but it doesn't mean you want to jump at a 30 year old or a 32 year old to all of a sudden put yourself in the con conversation. What does cap space mean to these Bulls?

Casey Johnson (13:49)

Well, it means what you said before. The kind of being in the modern NBA and weaponizing it to take on distressed assets or throw offer sheet at somebody or take on uneven money in a trade. Yeah, it is funny because those of us have been around a while, like we're wired to remember the days. It's funny, the Bulls are in Toronto tomorrow. Remember Chuck Swirsky, like rang Chris Bosch's doorbell at like 1201 in Toronto because Chuck had a relationship with him from their Raptors days together. I mean, like that's, you know, those are the days of like free agency frenzy. In the summer.

Co-host/Analyst (14:21)

LeBron picture, boss. Just slowly closing the door.

Casey Johnson (14:26)

Those days are, those days are gone. Like, you know, most teams, the good players don't get the free agency anymore. You just keep hearing the same, you know, extension eligible, et cetera. Well, they just reside with their teams like before they even get a sniff of free agency. So those days of just, you know, courting free agents and using cap space to sign rates are largely gone. I mean, there's still the, the rare exception, but it's not prevalent. So I think what you'll see the Bulls do is maybe identify a restrictive free agent that they really covet that, that you can make a poise, a difficult offer sheet to match. That's one way they could do it. You know, the Jaden Ivy cap hold, I haven't looked at the numbers yet today. The Jaden Ivy cap hold, because I assume he is in their future plans is pretty significant. So that's going to cut into their cap space, right?

Co-host/Analyst (15:13)

I didn't think about that. Yeah.

Casey Johnson (15:14)

Yeah. So, I mean it's not, it's. But, but the point I'm trying to make here is like, don't judge this roster Thursday night. Like this is part one of. Well, it's part whatever of part many. And, and the next part is this summer. I expect them to be pretty aggressive and creative this summer. I mean, I think fans again got, got kind of lured into, you know, Arturis grinding it with the same roster and not trying a lot of, you know, win on the margins asset trades. This is that creativity we saw in the summer of 2021 happening. Again, not equating the rosters because this roster as currently constructed is not nearly as good as the 21, 22 team. But they're, they're working on a, on a rebuild here and a retool, whatever you want to call it. And this is, this is one iteration of it.

Co-host/Analyst (16:02)

I've always found it interesting that Arturis, Karna Shovis has mentioned he does not value second round picks in the way that others have. When you want to remind him, you know, you were involved in making a pretty good second round pick in Denver that turned into one of the best players who's ever lived. And now it seems that maybe there is an understanding or a willingness to realize that draft capital can help you accomplish the goals in one way or another. Especially that I'm really intrigued by that Pelicans second rounder because that slot of depending on depth of draft, what could be seen as a first round pick without the commitments and with a lot more flexibility. That might be real nice for them. Even though we're still looking at like top four, top five being the heavy part of this next draft.

Casey Johnson (16:56)

Yeah. I would assume another example of a second round draft story. Obviously not the Jokic level, but I mean, yeah. And I, I gotta say, I mean I was probably a bigger Vuch fan than, than most and that might be partly colored by just how ridiculously phenomenal he was to cover as an athlete. But no, I mean he was also a very solid player and he played.

Co-host/Analyst (17:19)

That's a thing like the idea of someone who is just, they're in uniform saying I'm ready to go play a basketball game and I've, you know, I've got 30 minutes in me tonight on the end of a back to back or whatever it is. It's just like that, that is so much value.

Casey Johnson (17:38)

Yeah. Like he sat as recently as Saturday night in Miami and everyone thought oh, was the trade coming? And funny enough the trade was coming. But at that time, trust me, it wasn't because I asked on that day and they're like, no, he's playing tomorrow. And they like had to like beg him to sit out. And that was four games in five nights for like 35 year old, 15 year veteran. But back to what I was going to say about him, like I. And your second round pick point, like I was, that's good return for Nikola Vuchovic. I mean because Simons is a talent and he could be expensive. I don't think he'll make 28 million on the open market this summer. I could be wrong and I'm not 100% sure he will be in a Bulls uniform next year, but he's going to get buckets the rest of the season. And to your point, Dan, like that second round pick, you don't have to, it's not guaranteed money because it's a second round pick. You can creatively structure the contract. You have a chance to hit on that pick and, or send it in a deal this summer, you know, so this, that was a pretty good return for Nikola Vucevic, especially given how well he performed for you while he was in Bulls uniform.

Co-host/Analyst (18:38)

All right, last question. Casey, appreciate you hanging out with us. There's still there could be other blockbuster deals. We know that Harden for Garland and obviously the Memphis and Utah deal is setting the tone at the moment. Where are the Bulls in and around some of these bigger deals? When you talk about the margins, anytime you get these massive movements of resources, there are things that can be picked off. There are things the Bulls can do to step in. Are you hearing anything or are we still dealing with these other New Orleans rumors about Eve Mecy and Zion Williamson? Is there any place where the Bulls can find opportunity between now and Thursday afternoon?

Casey Johnson (19:24)

Well, to that point, I mean the boots trade hasn't been. The report of bootstrate hasn't been finalized yet because I've heard that might expand to a 3 or 14 deal. Not to say more is coming to the Bulls. I'm just saying that's an example of your very point. So to that point I can just tell you that they're active. Like I, I'm, I don't, I talk mostly outside the organization rather than inside the organization and I, I know executives from a lot of other teams and they say the Bulls are out there in a lot of different iterations now. That's I want to emphasize like I would be surprised if they go big game hunting. That's not consistent with the messaging this organization has been giving. They've been talking about being patient, doing this the right way, not skipping steps. So I'm not expecting a Zion or a Giannis deal by Thursday. But to that point they're looking to be opportunistic everywhere and if one of those big names moves that can be a multi team construction, a three or four team deal. So I would expect the Bulls would try to get in on any, anything. We got a lot of time left. I mean it's 10 o' clock Wednesday morning. They've already done a lot and there's, I mean 28 hours is a long time in the NBA trade deadline world. And to that point I want to. One thing I want to emphasize like I was told that VCH deal at one point was discussed earlier in the season and it was, was dormant for a while because the Celtics had designs on like Jaren Jackson or I read somewhere, I did not hear this myself but like they were kicking the tires on Zubots. And my point is like when those things didn't work out, they went okay, we said no before. Let's circle back. So 28 hours. There might be some no's right now that turn into yeses by tomorrow afternoon.

Co-host/Analyst (20:58)

Exciting times. And I know you're very busy. I'm sure your, your phone is screaming while we're talking here. Casey Johnson, thanks so much for joining us.

Casey Johnson (21:06)

Thanks for having me guys. Appreciate it.

Co-host/Analyst (21:08)

That is Casey Johnson of Chicago Sports Network and you can watch him in the about the Bulls coverage. He is frequently jumping in with all Kinds of valuable stuff on those broadcasts.

Dan Bernstein (21:21)

So how does that make you feel? I mean, he's. He's there around the team. He's talking to the guys in charge.

Co-host/Analyst (21:27)

Yeah. I'm still pissed that Kobe White played last night. Let me be very clear about that. That was. He should not have played.

Dan Bernstein (21:33)

But then we were talking before we started recording today about the possibility of the. Of the Bulls tanking and seeing what possibly could come of this season. If that's not the direction, as he put it, which I really love, he's not going to steer into the ditch. Whatever happens, happens.

Co-host/Analyst (21:49)

It may go into the ditch.

Dan Bernstein (21:50)

And if you.

Co-host/Analyst (21:51)

If you have nothing but guards on.

Dan Bernstein (21:52)

Your team, unintentionally go in the ditch. Right.

Co-host/Analyst (21:55)

I was going to say, like, if we're in the Lachlan Ulbricht portion of the season.

Casey Johnson (21:59)

Right.

Co-host/Analyst (21:59)

I think. I think everything might be okay.

Dan Bernstein (22:02)

But that doesn't sound like it's a. We're not going to really try to prevent it from happening. And if it happens, great. But you wanted more of a. Let's. Let's just stare it into it. Let's take advantage of this opportunity.

Co-host/Analyst (22:13)

It sounds like we're saying the same thing.

Dan Bernstein (22:15)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (22:16)

Because I know how it looks. Players don't stop trying. Coaches don't stop trying. You just limit the resources. And it does look to me like Dale and Terry is getting a little bit more run. Let me just say we're going to talk through all of this today on a full episode of Organizations Win Championships. We got a special episode, a little mini one one off out yesterday, but we're going to really chop it up when it comes to some of this stuff. I do think you're going to see a lot more of Dale and Terry in the rotations. I think if Julian Phillips can get over whatever this, what is now an elbow or a wrist or whatever, it might be that you're going to see a lot more of him. But you can. It's also developmental time. That's the thing. It's not just losing for the sake of losing. It is knowing what you have and using this time to say, yeah, we're going to play as hard as we can and we're going to give some guys who hadn't been getting the same kind of burn and opportunity to rise in the rotation and show us what you got. Is Dale and Terry worth keeping around? I don't know. I've seen some positive things. He's playing harder and smarter than he has in the past, attacking the basket a little Bit better defending, even blocking a shot here or there. Play him more.

Dan Bernstein (23:26)

How much more development you think Collins can show in the NBA?

Co-host/Analyst (23:31)

Zach Collins?

Casey Johnson (23:31)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (23:32)

Oh, he's done for this year, I think. Yeah, I know, but I mean, no, he's already. He's a good player.

Dan Bernstein (23:36)

Okay. I mean, is he, Is he, Is he a star, big man?

Co-host/Analyst (23:39)

No, he's not a star, but he is. He is a rotational big.

Dan Bernstein (23:43)

He's rotational. You need to solve that issue.

Co-host/Analyst (23:46)

I think that if he wants to stick around on a reasonable deal. If you can, if he can, if he fits. The good news is that the giddy deal is looking real nice. That's only 25 million a year.

Casey Johnson (23:58)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (23:59)

For a guy who's on a guy of his caliber, fringe all star status this year like that, that he's. That ends up being a really nice arrangement for a team that's overpaid. If you could offload the Patrick Williams contract somehow, some way, find a way to involve him, that would be a massive achievement. I'm finally, finally, finally done with Patrick Williams and I just don't see it working anymore. I don't. He's just not good. And if you could find somebody, find some way to take a chunk of that money, that would be great. You know, we're talking about the cold weather now, and especially when I've been talking about Chicago window guys and what it means to have new, good windows, windows that actually make a difference. And I understand now how much windows matter and what they matter as far as your energy bills go. We're talking about keeping the heat in the house right now very, very soon. Sooner than you think. You know how Chicago is. We go directly from winter to summer. Sometimes we forget spring, we skip right over it. And all of a sudden you go from freezing at your youth baseball games to sweltering. And those windows can make sure the heat, the oppressive summer heat doesn't come into your house, that you're still comfortable. And you hear the air conditioning kicking on less often because your windows are. Are better at keeping all of the temperature where it's supposed to be. So call Russ Armstrong and have him put new windows in your house. His windows are the best. He matches any price that you hear, even these ridiculous deals when they say, buy one, get one free. And he'll actually sit down at your kitchen table and say, hey, here's what the numbers are. Here's the windows that I'm going to make for you at my factory in Chicago. Custom made. The cool thing about Chicago window guys, too Is all of the people that worked there, all of his installers, the people that measure, they all work for him. They're all part of his company. Most other companies use some form of subcontracted labor. Chicago Window Guys doesn't give him a call. 847-302-9171. Go to chicagowindowguys.com to look at all the five star reviews. I have been confident in recommending Russ Armstrong to neighbors, to coworkers, to friends. And everybody raves about the attention to detail about the experience and the attention that you get when the install is happening. I've been through it. We're doing it again, so you should do it too. 847-302-9171. Check out the 5 star reviews at ChicagoNowGuys.com you want to hear about a public event that sounds like something that people desperately want you to take part in?

Dan Bernstein (26:47)

Yes, because I'm looking for something to do.

Co-host/Analyst (26:49)

Are you looking for something to do?

Dan Bernstein (26:50)

I am.

Co-host/Analyst (26:50)

You need a thing.

Dan Bernstein (26:51)

I do need a thing.

Co-host/Analyst (26:52)

Something for. When is February 11th? That's a week from today, right?

Dan Bernstein (26:56)

Week from the day.

Co-host/Analyst (26:58)

Well, there is a group.

Dan Bernstein (27:00)

Let's go.

Co-host/Analyst (27:00)

There's a group called Touchdown Arlington.

Dan Bernstein (27:03)

I'm there.

Co-host/Analyst (27:04)

Six o'. Clock, the Doubletree Arlington Heights Hotel. Whoa. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (27:10)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (27:11)

You talk about. We're talking about a party venue. You talk about hot.

Dan Bernstein (27:15)

You like the Double Tree?

Co-host/Analyst (27:16)

The Double Tree? Yeah. The velvet ropes and bottle service. Everything you want at the Doubletree Arlington Heights Hotel. A public event.

Dan Bernstein (27:26)

Is this about like a plane landing? Like a touchdown?

Co-host/Analyst (27:29)

No, this is touchdown as in football Touchdown. I think. And the Bears themselves. You're talking football Touching down. Yeah, I am. And it's been announced that this is quote to show broad visible community support for tax break legislation.

Dan Bernstein (27:46)

Okay. To show broad. Okay. As I say.

Co-host/Analyst (27:48)

That's pretty. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (27:49)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (27:50)

Broad visible.

Dan Bernstein (27:51)

Yes.

Co-host/Analyst (27:51)

Not abroad.

Dan Bernstein (27:52)

Yeah, I was gonna say that's.

Co-host/Analyst (27:54)

I'm a man of another dime. I use words like that.

Dan Bernstein (27:56)

It's really offensive.

Co-host/Analyst (27:57)

They show broad visible community support.

Dan Bernstein (28:00)

They're showing broad. I thought maybe it was like a. Like a Trump contest of beauty contest or something. All right, here we go. Sorry, I don't mean to distract you.

Co-host/Analyst (28:09)

They're co hosting it with Meet Chicago Northwest. That' the convention visitor.

Dan Bernstein (28:14)

Like cattle.

Co-host/Analyst (28:15)

No, m e e t meat. Chicago Northwest.

Dan Bernstein (28:19)

I'm taking notes. I'm sorry.

Co-host/Analyst (28:20)

Yeah, I know.

Dan Bernstein (28:20)

To get all this.

Co-host/Analyst (28:21)

If you want this opportunity to party at the DoubleTree Arlington Heights, 6pm and the speakers, you've got the mayor of Arlington Heights elected officials from across the northwest suburbs. And they say the message is that the Illinois Cook county and the northwest suburbs cannot afford to lose this project to Indiana.

Dan Bernstein (28:44)

Oh, it's about the Bears.

Co-host/Analyst (28:45)

Yes. Oh, and you know what else I would say? Not only can you afford to lose this project to Indiana, the only reason to go there would be to tell the Bears to go to Indiana because it's going to ultimately be better for everybody involved. Because government deals with sports teams to build stadiums suck for taxpayers. They only benefit the billionaires. They only benefit the sports teams. Let Indiana have the Bears, period. This. All these deals are bad. And if you're. If already they're comparing, they're saying, wait a second. Indiana is going to give the Bears the same deal that Kansas gave the Chiefs after Missouri told the Chief. Out of here with. All right, go ahead, get out of here. Even Missouri was smart enough to understand this is a. Even think about that. Missouri was smart enough to tell the Chiefs to go tell their story walking. I'll be deep into cold, cold ground before I recognize Missouri. I recognize them here and now. And that was a great job by the people of Missouri to understand that it was a bad deal. And if Indiana wants to give the Bears what would be a bad deal for their residents and their taxpayers. And in Illinois, if you're, if you're a Bears fan, you don't suffer. It's. They're just over the. They're right near Hagwish. That's all. It's Hammond, Indiana, near Hagwish. It's great. Indiana can have them. That's for what you should be rooting right now. And I don't know why you'd want to go to this. You want to be used as a pawn by local politicians to whatever greasing of palms has gone on, whatever individual promises have been made and earmarks and the various amounts of pork that go into these deals. If you want to be used as a witless pawn. And you know what else is insulting about this? That just. That personally pisses me off that you're asking individuals to go be a part of a public political process for this. With everything else that is happening right at this point in American history right.

Dan Bernstein (31:13)

Now, this is where you're asking for boots on the ground.

Co-host/Analyst (31:15)

You're trying to rally people to show up at the W. You want to be heard in democracy for this to make the McCaskey family wealthier. That's what's going to get you off your ass. That's gonna get you off the couch right now to go stand shoulder to shoulder. This. Are you kidding me? Well, we're gonna do it. Come out. Come show your support. Well, sorry if there are people with better things to do with their time, better things to do with their efforts, better things to do with their presence with where you say, be where your feet are. Be where your feet are. And you're asking people to put their feet in the ballroom of a Hotel at 6 o' clock next Wednesday instead of putting their feet out there to actually help people who need help, protect people who need protection. On behalf of billionaires, please.

Dan Bernstein (32:20)

So I catalog this in the same area of the Belichick and Robert Kraft not making the hall of Fame. It doesn't seem right. It wouldn't seem right for the Bears not to be in the Chicagoland area, but I.

Co-host/Analyst (32:32)

But they are in the Chicagoland area in Hammond.

Dan Bernstein (32:34)

I know, but it's Indiana.

Co-host/Analyst (32:36)

So what?

Dan Bernstein (32:37)

Relax a second. At the, at the bottom of it, I don't care if they play in Indiana or if they play in Wisconsin. I don't care if they're the Chicago Bears and they play in Indiana or if they were to play in Kenosha, which, actually I would prefer that it's easier for me to get to. Not that I would go to a game, but I don't care where they play. I watch on tv. It's better for me to watch games on tv. I'm not going to games. I don't care where the Bears play. If. You know what if the Bears, if they, if the McCasky said, hey, we're moving to a different state, like Fart, like Florida, or we're going to move down to Texas.

Co-host/Analyst (33:16)

They weren't going to be the Chicago Bears anymore. That would change things, right?

Dan Bernstein (33:19)

Then I'd be like, all right, well, that's kind of shitty. That sucks.

Co-host/Analyst (33:22)

But.

Dan Bernstein (33:22)

But you know what, though? I'd wake up the next day and my life would still go on.

Co-host/Analyst (33:25)

Of course it would.

Dan Bernstein (33:26)

Right?

Co-host/Analyst (33:26)

Of course it would.

Dan Bernstein (33:28)

The end of the day, it's a football team playing Indiana.

Co-host/Analyst (33:31)

And the idea that you. That your presence is being called. They want you. There are people pulling strings that want you to be used, that want to use you like a pawn in a game so you can stand there and ask for the schools to not be as well funded as the Bears want them to be. The Bears keep saying tax certainty. Tax certainty. Tax certainty. Yeah. They want certainty that the taxes are lower, certainty that they don't have to pay their share as a. As a 40 year or 30 year resident pay their property taxes.

Dan Bernstein (34:11)

Now listen, I don't want to pay them. I don't want people to hear the wrong thing here because I don't want to besmirch the good name of the Doubletree in Arlington Heights. When we did a guys trip years ago, it was either Vegas or the Double Tree in Arlington Heights. We couldn't argue spring break about which one.

Co-host/Analyst (34:26)

It was going to be a big spring break thing. Yeah, absolutely.

Dan Bernstein (34:28)

Now it was, it was changed by one vote. One vote got us to Vegas, but you know, several of us wanted to stay there. So I don't want to.

Co-host/Analyst (34:36)

Democracy in action. Correct.

Dan Bernstein (34:37)

I don't want to make it sound like we're, we're saying anything bad about the Doubletree or Arlington Heights. It's just like this is just not the right use of your time as a tax paying individual in the state of Illinois, in Cook County. It's not. It's really not. And if Indiana wants to just give it all away, then they should give it all away. That's fine. Then, then just, then just go, stop, stop this, this song and dance that you're doing and just go. If you have the deal there, then go do it or take advantage of it.

Co-host/Analyst (35:09)

Or if you, if it's, if what we suspect is true and you don't have the money to follow through on your promise to pay for the stadium and you actually can't and you have no choice.

Casey Johnson (35:25)

Right.

Co-host/Analyst (35:25)

And this really is that desperate, that's too bad. But so what then you screwed up. Then you didn't diversify your business enough. If this is the only business you have and you never created other revenue streams, you never figured out what else you could do as a family to go into other businesses and make the football team just a part of a larger business footprint, that's on you. That's not the taxpayer's fault. And if people in Indiana want to say, hey, yeah, we'll give them all of it and they can, yeah, it's a great deal. You believe all of their phony baloney economic studies. Oh, they're bringers of jobs. They're bringers of industry. They're bringers. No, they're not. None of these deals, none of these deals. Actually, when you look at the impact none of them deliver on any of those promises for sustained economic benefit for the taxpayer. They just don't. It's all public relations. It's all cherry picked information to say, oh, look at these. What a blessing the Bears will bestow on you. If you just pay for most of it and then give the Bears all the profits. Look at what they'll bring to your area. It's all garbage. Don't believe it. If Indiana's dumb enough to believe it, let them be dumb enough. That's it. And now say, hey, come on out and show your support for this. Don't. You've got better things to do.

Dan Bernstein (36:57)

We've said this before. I think the. The lease runs out 2031 for the Bears at Soldier Field. That a third option that is a small percentage that may get bigger as the time goes by is that the Bears just play at Soldier Field still. That they just. They can't afford or find the correct path.

Co-host/Analyst (37:16)

I guess it's possible they still have all that land.

Dan Bernstein (37:19)

They'll figure something out. With land.

Co-host/Analyst (37:21)

What are you doing with the. You're just paying taxes on it. It's not making any money.

Dan Bernstein (37:24)

I know.

Co-host/Analyst (37:24)

That's just a drain that you're continuing to pay and all that. That number's going up and you're gonna keep paying for whatever the assessed value is of land. That's doing nothing out there.

Dan Bernstein (37:36)

Again, this whole process, a cluster fucking ass backwards from the start. From the start, you bought the land, then you hire the guy and you cut his legs off from underneath him before he even started. And who knows how good of a job he's even doing.

Co-host/Analyst (37:55)

On another topic regarding the Bears, my joy and excitement over the unexpected season they had, I think, finally wore off. I noticed it and I got my first pang of it would be nice if the Bears were in this game because neither one of these teams is impressive or exciting. Neither one. They're both good teams. One I think is significantly better than the other, but they're both good teams. But I. For the first time, I kind of got back around to thinking about the football that we got Sunday, you know. You know, the Bears could easily be there. They could easily be a representative competitor in that Super Bowl. And I started getting. And there was a first time. I'm like, you know, that really sucks that they're not still playing. I'm ready for next year now.

Dan Bernstein (38:46)

Yeah, I've been ready.

Co-host/Analyst (38:47)

Dude, I see you got there before I did.

Dan Bernstein (38:49)

Yeah, I've been there right away.

Co-host/Analyst (38:50)

It took me a little longer to kind of settle into the like, you know, I was. It was a lot and it was. They gave us many seasons worth of incredible moments. Everything that we talked about, what that all was, but maybe just the world moves fast now. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, well, Damn it.

Dan Bernstein (39:08)

Don't worry. We're just like 30 or 31 weeks away from opening weekend, so we're like 30 weeks away from Bears. First game of the 2026 season. Their first victory, so. All right, we're getting there.

Co-host/Analyst (39:19)

Do you have them undefeated? No.

Dan Bernstein (39:21)

What did I say? I said 14 and three, I think.

Co-host/Analyst (39:23)

Or 13 and four.

Dan Bernstein (39:24)

13 and four? Something like that. 13 and 13, I think.

Co-host/Analyst (39:27)

You said 13 and four. Yeah, we.

Dan Bernstein (39:29)

We saw the opponents for the schedule, and I went through. Yeah. Bears are 13 and 4.

Co-host/Analyst (39:33)

Okay.

Dan Bernstein (39:34)

Winning the division for a second year in a row.

Co-host/Analyst (39:36)

All right. You've been. You've been high guy on the Bears for a while.

Dan Bernstein (39:40)

I just. I just. I wanted to be a good game on Sunday. Like, I'm just. I'm getting. I'm getting feelings. And this was a. You know, remember the. Was the Rams and Patriots and was it 19, 20, 19. That, like, 13 to 3, 10 to 3. Just awful game.

Co-host/Analyst (39:57)

That's brutal. Like.

Dan Bernstein (40:00)

Like, I think Seahawks fans are going to love this game, but I just don't think it's going to be a competitive game.

Co-host/Analyst (40:05)

What are you making? Do you know?

Dan Bernstein (40:06)

I haven't decided yet.

Co-host/Analyst (40:07)

I haven't either.

Dan Bernstein (40:09)

Haven't decided. I gotta. I gotta figure it out. I think I have. No, there's. There's no. I got. I got a lot of basketball on Saturday. I'll figure it out and start working on it Sunday. I don't know what I'm gonna do.

Co-host/Analyst (40:19)

What do you.

Dan Bernstein (40:19)

What are you thinking?

Co-host/Analyst (40:19)

I don't know. I. Because usually I think chili.

Dan Bernstein (40:23)

I was gonna say, should I do chili? But it's just. It sounds cliche.

Co-host/Analyst (40:26)

And then there's the heart plugs, which. Is that the garlic bread? The baked garlic bread. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (40:33)

So you do butt plugs?

Co-host/Analyst (40:34)

Heart plugs. Different.

Dan Bernstein (40:36)

Different.

Co-host/Analyst (40:36)

Yeah, different. This is heart plugs. This is dinner. It's the dinner portion of the evening. Yes. So the.

Dan Bernstein (40:42)

Yeah. Welcome. Welcome to the dinner portion of the evening. I'm Dan Bernstein. Have a seat.

Co-host/Analyst (40:47)

Yeah, no, don't sit there.

Dan Bernstein (40:49)

We'll get to the butt plugs next.

Co-host/Analyst (40:50)

Yes, don't sit there. That chair's for later. Don't sit there. So. But, yeah, it's the garlic bread with. Then I make the meat sauce with Italian sausage, and it's Italian sausage. It's the mixed six shredded Italian cheeses, like the Asiago provolone mozzarella one, and that's in layers, and then finished off with a medium giardinier and baked.

Dan Bernstein (41:18)

Okay. So like a cheesy garlic bread. With meat and giardinier.

Co-host/Analyst (41:22)

Yeah. And you cut it and you can set it out on a cutting board, just in slices. Really good. Yeah. It's basically like a. Like a thick pizza bread almost.

Dan Bernstein (41:31)

Yeah, yeah. It's like a Stouffer's.

Co-host/Analyst (41:32)

Yes.

Dan Bernstein (41:33)

French bread pizza. Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (41:35)

Like I'm.

Casey Johnson (41:36)

Oh, loved those.

Co-host/Analyst (41:37)

Oh, yeah, college. Because. Because the plate comes with it. I flatten the box. You got your plate?

Dan Bernstein (41:43)

Oh, yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (41:44)

That's good. That's.

Dan Bernstein (41:45)

That sounds like a good appetizer.

Co-host/Analyst (41:48)

Well, it depends how much you eat. It could be a good main course if you eat the entire thing yourself.

Dan Bernstein (41:54)

You know, and funny. Jackie's been asked me to make garlic bread at home. He loves it, so.

Co-host/Analyst (41:58)

No, but get the store bought garlic bread.

Dan Bernstein (42:00)

Oh, don't make your own, though.

Co-host/Analyst (42:01)

No, no, no, no, no. It's so much easier. You just get the Kroger brand or whatever.

Dan Bernstein (42:05)

It's easier. Pop it open. Not as good, is it?

Co-host/Analyst (42:08)

I don't know that it's worth dealing with all of the variables.

Dan Bernstein (42:13)

Garlic butter.

Co-host/Analyst (42:13)

No, this comes out just right. It's all you need.

Dan Bernstein (42:16)

All right, so then you do Italian sausage.

Co-host/Analyst (42:19)

I make my tomato meat sauce with Italian sausage. You can just do crumbled sausage and then jarred sauce, which is fine. The regular Barilla jar.

Dan Bernstein (42:29)

Oh, yeah, that would work fine. But I like you're talking. I mean, if you're doing the store bought bread, I would just do the jarred sauce.

Co-host/Analyst (42:34)

Yeah, yeah.

Casey Johnson (42:35)

And then.

Co-host/Analyst (42:35)

And then you can just grill off loose sausage with onions in it and a little bit extra garlic.

Dan Bernstein (42:41)

I did the pasta a la Beth a lady. Yeah, it's good. It was really good.

Co-host/Analyst (42:46)

Did you use pancetta or.

Dan Bernstein (42:47)

No, I did not. Okay. No, I did not. We just. And instead of arugulated spinach.

Co-host/Analyst (42:52)

Yeah, I invented that.

Casey Johnson (42:54)

That's good.

Co-host/Analyst (42:54)

Yeah. Lemon goat cheese, arugula. And then like usually shells or something.

Dan Bernstein (42:59)

Yeah, it was really added shells. I did the medium shells.

Co-host/Analyst (43:01)

Finish it with.

Dan Bernstein (43:02)

With some zest. Yes. A little parmigiano Reggiano.

Casey Johnson (43:04)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (43:05)

Big hit in our house.

Dan Bernstein (43:05)

It was good.

Co-host/Analyst (43:06)

Yeah. But it is also good if you started with pancetta.

Dan Bernstein (43:09)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (43:09)

And I will say that I. I made meat sauce last night and I'm glad I remembered. In the freezer I had chunks of parmigiano Reggiano rind, Frozen rind, rind, rind. Dropped one in there and just kind of let it get soft.

Dan Bernstein (43:23)

It's cheese, Ryan Dan. Oh, cheese Ryan. It's not rind.

Co-host/Analyst (43:27)

It's not. Ryan. Do you show. Yes, I know you had some baseball notes. I did. Perfect segue there into looking at the prospect list of our baseball team.

Dan Bernstein (43:36)

No, I saw this on ESPN. Kylie McDaniel. They had their. Their top 200 prospects in baseball, and then. Then they ranked the top 10 prospects by team. So I was just curious to take a look at our local teams here. The Cubs and the White Sox. Of course. We'll start with the cubs in order, 1 through 10. Moises by, Esteros Jackson, Wiggins, Jefferson Rojas, Pedro Ramirez. So those are the top four in the organization and the only four from the Cubs that made the top 200 prospect list. I know, I know. The look on your face. You're thinking about Kevin Alcantara.

Co-host/Analyst (44:13)

Yes, Kevin Alcantara.

Dan Bernstein (44:14)

Alcantara.

Co-host/Analyst (44:14)

He had.

Dan Bernstein (44:15)

He had at bats already.

Co-host/Analyst (44:16)

So he.

Dan Bernstein (44:17)

He surpassed the number of at bats, apparently. So that's why he's not ranked.

Co-host/Analyst (44:20)

I still don't get Ballesteros.

Dan Bernstein (44:23)

I don't either.

Co-host/Analyst (44:25)

Where does he play? What does he do other than make decent contact and hit for gap power?

Dan Bernstein (44:32)

He's a dh. That's all he is.

Co-host/Analyst (44:34)

Okay.

Dan Bernstein (44:35)

Like, he's not going to catch and he's not going to play outfield. He's not going to play first base. Not that he couldn't, but he could.

Co-host/Analyst (44:44)

But that's.

Dan Bernstein (44:44)

He's a dh.

Co-host/Analyst (44:46)

He's. He's replaces Carlos Santana, who just signed. So, I mean, you hope that the. The hit tool plays at the major league level.

Dan Bernstein (44:58)

That it needs to be. Right? So those are the top four that made the.

Co-host/Analyst (45:01)

The.

Dan Bernstein (45:01)

The top 200 overall in baseball.

Co-host/Analyst (45:03)

And I'm not. I don't care about Cubs prospects right now. They're in their window.

Dan Bernstein (45:05)

Right, right. Which is why they only have four in the top 200.

Co-host/Analyst (45:08)

Fine. Okay.

Dan Bernstein (45:10)

It's.

Co-host/Analyst (45:10)

It.

Dan Bernstein (45:10)

We'll talk about that, too, because it's an interesting note. Ethan Conrad, Jonathan Long, Kevin Alcantara, Kane Kepley, Josiah Harstam, and Caleb Wing. So those are your top 10, right?

Co-host/Analyst (45:23)

Name, name, name, name.

Dan Bernstein (45:25)

Look at the White Sox, though. White Sox, dan. Actually have eight of their top 10 prospects earned the top 200.

Co-host/Analyst (45:32)

Okay.

Dan Bernstein (45:33)

So eight. And I thought, wow, that must be a really good number. Well, I looked at it, too. Went through all the teams. The Rays, the Brewers, the Twins, the Dodgers and the guardians all have 10 in the top top 200, which is really. It really pisses you off by the Dodgers and the Brewers.

Co-host/Analyst (45:50)

It just does. Good at it.

Dan Bernstein (45:51)

I know. They're so good at it. Then the Mets, the Pirates, the Cardinals, the Nationals, and The Orioles have nine in the top 200. And then you get to the White Sox with eight in the top 200. Caleb Bottomer is number one. He's 34th overall.

Casey Johnson (46:10)

Okay.

Dan Bernstein (46:11)

Any. Any thoughts? Anything? Bringing any?

Co-host/Analyst (46:14)

No.

Dan Bernstein (46:14)

Okay. Noah Schultz.

Co-host/Analyst (46:17)

I was just. That was the next name on my list was.

Dan Bernstein (46:19)

Was left in a picture.

Co-host/Analyst (46:20)

Local product out of Oswego, I believe. Noah Schultz, Billy Carlson.

Dan Bernstein (46:25)

Now Christian. I don't know if it's opor apor o p p o r. Okay. Hagen, Smith, Tanner. McDougal. Braden Montgomery. William Bergola. B E R G O L L A that name. You've heard that name?

Co-host/Analyst (46:40)

No.

Dan Bernstein (46:40)

Okay. Interesting about William Bergola. They actually have him. When they, when they looked at prospects 100 to. Or 101 to 200, they categorize those. Those bottom guys might have been the bottom 50. And they looked at Pergola as a guy most likely to. Okay, they have a category most likely to. Anyhow, this is in the bottom. Bottom 50. And he ranks number 199 overall most likely to win a batting title.

Co-host/Analyst (47:12)

Which.

Dan Bernstein (47:12)

Is pretty significant for a prospect that low.

Co-host/Analyst (47:14)

Yeah, it is, but it used to matter a lot more like winning. You see what happens. The Sox had a guy that won two, and then he was bad at baseball. Correct. Now you got a guy in Luis Arias that wins batting titles and Nobo wants him on their team.

Dan Bernstein (47:27)

But, I mean. But a guy like that, I mean, you're not going to be opposed to a guy with that kind of hitting ability in your lineup.

Co-host/Analyst (47:34)

That's what they thought if you had.

Dan Bernstein (47:35)

Other guys around him. Well, I'm not saying that there's always correct thoughts on it, but that just.

Co-host/Analyst (47:41)

Doesn'T mean that much to me. How many runs does he generate?

Dan Bernstein (47:44)

Oh, yeah. Well. And they have him as a. As a plus two war, like consistently player.

Co-host/Analyst (47:49)

That's a guy.

Dan Bernstein (47:50)

It's a little more than a guy.

Co-host/Analyst (47:52)

Two little more than a guy who is a guy. You use probably a. Maybe a regular if you got some better players around him.

Dan Bernstein (47:59)

Yeah, no, it's okay now, you know, it's. It's like you. You look at a guy and what's he. What's he play? So he's a shortstop for now, you know, so let's say he's an infielder with a.

Co-host/Analyst (48:09)

With a.

Dan Bernstein (48:10)

With a gold. A Gold Glove caliber glove.

Co-host/Analyst (48:12)

Okay.

Dan Bernstein (48:13)

And a guy who can hit high. You know, high.

Co-host/Analyst (48:15)

You didn't mention the Gold Glove.

Dan Bernstein (48:16)

No, I'm not saying. But let's see how he develops. He's only 20, but a guy like that, like, like Horner, who gives you all those defensive wins as well, and hits for high average with very low power, you're not going to be opposed to have that guy on your roster.

Co-host/Analyst (48:31)

No. Depending on how your team's built.

Casey Johnson (48:32)

No.

Dan Bernstein (48:33)

Right. Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (48:33)

I mean, if you have. Obviously, if you build a roster that has scores enough runs and prevents enough runs, you. Nobody in a vacuum you're going to say no to.

Dan Bernstein (48:45)

Right. So we'll see how his glove develops. Only at 20 years old in Double A last year, but he has great speed and he has a really great, you know, bat to ball.

Co-host/Analyst (48:53)

This is Bergola.

Dan Bernstein (48:54)

Bergola. William Bergola. So I thought, hey, you know, let's keep an eye on that.

Co-host/Analyst (48:58)

Okay.

Dan Bernstein (48:59)

And then we get down to number nine is Jaden Faust, right fielder. And then Sam Antonacci, second baseman. So those are the White Sox top 10.

Co-host/Analyst (49:08)

Cool. I. I'll say this, too. And I am.

Dan Bernstein (49:12)

But, but, but having eight in the top 200.

Co-host/Analyst (49:14)

That's where you should be.

Dan Bernstein (49:15)

That's where you should be when you're.

Co-host/Analyst (49:16)

Losing hundreds and hundreds of games. The whole point. They should have 20 guys in the.

Dan Bernstein (49:20)

So it's like they're.

Co-host/Analyst (49:21)

They're.

Dan Bernstein (49:21)

They're doing something and they're at least facing the right direction, walking in the right direction, which is a positive thing for that ball club here in town.

Co-host/Analyst (49:29)

A lot of steps. And then also things have to happen.

Dan Bernstein (49:31)

And that's why you look at the cubs with only four in the top 200, because you're. You should be competing for a World Series this year.

Co-host/Analyst (49:36)

Yeah, I don't care about prospects. You should be trading them for people to help you win a World Series right now.

Dan Bernstein (49:40)

Which is why I think might happen by Steros, too.

Co-host/Analyst (49:43)

Okay, perfect.

Casey Johnson (49:45)

Yeah, that.

Co-host/Analyst (49:45)

That's why you have prospects. And this is just a completely different position. The organization's in something, too, that I am increasingly partial to is there's a phrase that.

Dan Bernstein (50:02)

And this is baseball.

Co-host/Analyst (50:03)

This is baseball. And there's a phrase that is bandied about by many. And you won't be surprised that reading some of the work that Joe Sheehan has done and the statistical work behind this and showing some of the evidence is really. Is convincing. And that is. And don't react when you hear this phrase because the phrase is designed to be provocative. The phrase is, there's no such thing as a pitching prospect.

Dan Bernstein (50:31)

Wait, Joe Sheehan said this?

Co-host/Analyst (50:33)

Or this?

Casey Johnson (50:33)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (50:33)

Well, he wrote about the concept. The concept.

Dan Bernstein (50:37)

So there's no such thing as a.

Co-host/Analyst (50:39)

Pitching prospect when you have Someone in your organization that is getting people out, that is a pitcher, it is not a pitching prospect. There are a limited number of valuable throws in every arm. This was the old Kerry Wood line that people just sort of brushed off. And he was right. And Kerry Wood said this. There's a limited number of bullets in this gun. It's the truest thing that has been said by a pitcher about pitching. And whether or not it's one Tommy John or two Tommy John's or your shoulder falls off, the understanding that when somebody's throwing 102, call them up.

Dan Bernstein (51:32)

All right. So regardless of the level they're at, regardless of the number of pitches they throw, as far as the different types of pitches, just if they can throw guys out.

Co-host/Analyst (51:42)

And what matters most, the pitching stat that you should look at at every level, strikeout percentage. Obviously that relative to walks matters, but not as much as it matters on its own. How many batters of the ones you face do you strike out? And whether it was a guy like Jacob Mizaroski, because that's where our gal.

Dan Bernstein (52:07)

Mrs. Batts comes in.

Co-host/Analyst (52:09)

Yep. Mrs. Batts needs to show up a lot.

Dan Bernstein (52:12)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (52:12)

And there's no point bragging about your pitch labs, your respective pitching infrastructures, whether it's everything that the Cubs have built.

Dan Bernstein (52:21)

The Cubs talk about, or what the.

Co-host/Analyst (52:23)

White Sox say they want to do with Brian Bannister and their new movement. That's not to get a guy from eight ball to Triple A. That's not to get a guy out of extended spring or get a guy out of your Dominican facility and get him to Double A. That is about if you're so good at it and you're spending all this money on it. That's about finding major league pitchers who can help you right now. If you're competing, if you're holding guys down, you're not starting the contract clock, whatever. They may be talking about that. But when you are ready to compete, the phrase is there's no such thing as a pitching prospect, that you. You bring those arms up and there are pitchers and there are non pitchers there in your organization. If you have viable pitchers, don't waste viable pitches in the minor leagues.

Dan Bernstein (53:13)

All right, so that, that makes more sense now because I was struggling with the whole idea of the no pitching prospect and a lot of different scenarios running through my head. Yeah. So either your pitcher or a non pitcher right now. And if you're a non pitcher, you can. You're still in the organization and that's where the work is being done.

Co-host/Analyst (53:27)

Yeah. If somebody's like, look, we're gonna, we're gonna make you a sidearmer, or we think you've got one pitch that's gonna play and maybe you'll end up being a high leverage reliever at a different release point. That's fine. But the real prospects.

Dan Bernstein (53:40)

So is either a pitcher or a non pitcher.

Co-host/Analyst (53:42)

Somebody throwing 100, get that. Figure out a way to use that guy. Don't waste those pitches.

Dan Bernstein (53:48)

So did he talk through or what would you, what would your thought be on a guy who can throw 98 to 102 consistently but he's not a pitcher at the major league level right now? Why is that guy not there?

Co-host/Analyst (54:01)

That's. Ask the organization, okay? Ask every organization and ask. Ask your pitching infrastructure and ask your pitch lab.

Dan Bernstein (54:07)

And the only, the only way you would look at that, that's where you look at that ratio of strikeout to walk ratio. Maybe the walk numbers are just too high.

Co-host/Analyst (54:13)

Like a Tyler Chatwood kind of thing. Yeah, but, but it's still worth. The goal being how do we get this guy? Well, we're going to, we're going to have him pitch this year and just see. No, no, no. So anybody who can throw should be on the fastest possible track to make the finite number of pitches that they have matter more than.

Dan Bernstein (54:35)

So you look at numbers all the time. What is, what's a like, what's considered a like. What's a good strikeout percentage for a guy?

Co-host/Analyst (54:43)

Not.

Dan Bernstein (54:43)

Not like elite or not top tier. What's a good strikeout percentage?

Co-host/Analyst (54:47)

The. Right now, if I'm trying to think, if I could give you just a raw number, I mean, obviously what the.

Dan Bernstein (55:01)

The higher, the better.

Co-host/Analyst (55:02)

I was going to say 100% is good. Yeah, yeah. But if you want somebody striking somebody out at. For a pitcher. I don't. 30%. Okay, now that's.

Dan Bernstein (55:20)

That's right where my head was at, was at 30.

Co-host/Analyst (55:22)

I would say higher than that. Okay. I mean, 100% would be good.

Dan Bernstein (55:28)

Well, yeah, no shit.

Co-host/Analyst (55:29)

It obviously depends if you're talking starter versus really lever. But the idea of pitching to contact is bull crap because contact batting average is.300, strikeout batting average is 0. And never forget that. I know you're like, well, that's just theoretical. It is theoretical. Just like what we learned about on base percentage. The theoretical is if you're on base, you're not out. Out and outs are the currency of the game. If you have a pitcher that can get somebody out without a 30% chance of the person reaching Base, you know, that's. You have to strive for that. Well, that's what's ruining baseball. That's nobody's job right now to save baseball. The rules are the rules. And I'm just telling you how teams talk and what they say. Elite starters right now.

Dan Bernstein (56:31)

Yeah. What was, what was Paul Skeens like? What that do?

Co-host/Analyst (56:35)

I can check that. I think right now when you're talking average, you're talking like 18, 19%. The best starters are closer, closer up to 30, and the best relievers are over 30.

Dan Bernstein (56:48)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (56:51)

So that's.

Dan Bernstein (56:52)

All right. Let's just, let's say.

Co-host/Analyst (56:53)

Let's.

Dan Bernstein (56:53)

Let's say average is 20%. You said 18 and 19. Let's say 20%. That's average. More elite guys are closer to 30%.

Co-host/Analyst (57:00)

Yep.

Dan Bernstein (57:01)

And then the top tier guys are over 30. All right, so right now, if you have a guy in your. In your organization and say he's at double A single A. Mm. And he's. He's striking out, he's a starter and he strikes guys out, he has a strikeout percentage around 20%. Why is that guy sitting down in minor leagues? That's a question to ask the organization.

Co-host/Analyst (57:23)

Yes. Yeah, that is absolutely a fair question. And internally, the question should be asked of your pitching people, how soon can you get this guy to the majors? Not how long is he going to take or what does he have to learn, or the old idea of a starter has to have three pitches, that kind of thing.

Casey Johnson (57:46)

Right.

Co-host/Analyst (57:47)

It isn't that anymore. Paul Skeens In 2024, his K percentage was 33. 1.

Dan Bernstein (57:54)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (57:54)

Last year was down to 29. 5.

Dan Bernstein (57:56)

All right, so you're talking 30% is elite.

Co-host/Analyst (57:59)

Yeah. Well, that 33. 1 is pretty sweet there.

Dan Bernstein (58:02)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (58:03)

I want to look up Tariq Scubal, too, but that would be. There are guys who throw that hard to the minor league level. Right, But I'm just telling you, there's no reason to say, well, this guy, they've got a good defense. You only use your defense if you have to. If you have a good defense, great.

Dan Bernstein (58:21)

Right.

Co-host/Analyst (58:22)

But a strikeout is. You don't need defense. It takes defense out of it completely. If you strike the guy out and if you're striking out a third of the batters you face.

Dan Bernstein (58:31)

So what you're telling me, Dan, is that you want a guy who throws a baseball from the pitcher's mound as the pitcher and it doesn't make contact with the bat. That's what you're saying you want.

Co-host/Analyst (58:40)

That is exactly what I want.

Dan Bernstein (58:41)

All right, Dan.

Co-host/Analyst (58:42)

I get it. If it does make contact with the bat, I would like somebody to pick.

Dan Bernstein (58:46)

It up and hope you have a.

Co-host/Analyst (58:47)

Good defense, turn that batted ball into an out.

Dan Bernstein (58:50)

So guys that can't miss the bat with a bad defense behind them, you'd call that a bad team.

Co-host/Analyst (58:56)

That would be the Rockies.

Dan Bernstein (58:58)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (58:59)

Tariq skubal was at 32. Two.

Dan Bernstein (59:02)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (59:03)

Last year. His career is 29. One.

Dan Bernstein (59:07)

All right. So that, that 30% mark is like you're, you're. That's. That's top of the class.

Co-host/Analyst (59:12)

Okay. Yeah. The MLB average I believe is around. Depending on it fluctuates year to year. But I think It's, I would say 20. It's a good rule of thumb to say it's gonna be around 20, but little differences in there for people with high workloads make a big difference. But that's. Just get used to that phrase and don't overthink it and don't. What do you mean? There's no such thing as a pitching prospect. It's supposed to have some shock value to the point to understand that in a perfect world, a, an organization that is functioning developmentally doesn't waste major league level pitches in the minors.

Dan Bernstein (59:51)

Just when you, when you look at their assets, you look overall your organization and say, all right, we've got X number of pitches from all the arms we have. How do we utilize those in the best possible way to get closer to winning a championship this year?

Co-host/Analyst (60:05)

It should, if that's where you are, it should cease or, or trade him to somebody. You know what I mean? Like the, overall, all of baseball should look at it that way.

Casey Johnson (60:14)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (60:15)

And if you've got a kid at single A that is striking out 29% there or 30% there and throwing 99 and you don't have room for him in your organization, someone else is pro scouting. You should be valuing that player higher.

Dan Bernstein (60:30)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (60:30)

Because of just how much these measurable things really, really matter.

Dan Bernstein (60:36)

Interesting.

Co-host/Analyst (60:37)

I've got one quick thing to mention on the other side of a reminder that if you haven't registered and made your deposit for my bookie for the super bowl, you're going to be missing out on all the fun stuff and all the props and everything else. All the. Look, you're killing it on NBA right now.

Dan Bernstein (60:53)

8 and 2 in my last 10 games.

Co-host/Analyst (60:54)

Killing it on NBA via.

Dan Bernstein (60:56)

I was 2 points off last night of something big. I had a three team at a three team thing going last night with the Lakers, the Knicks and The Pistons, two points.

Co-host/Analyst (61:06)

All right, so make sure that you use our promo code, dbu, to pop onto my bookie right now. Get registered, you make your deposit, and then you're rolling. Because the super bowl has got that big, famous prop board at my bookie it's always talked about. Jimmy Kimmel live always has fun with the My bookie prop board. Get in now. One account, one wallet. You want to bet the spread? You want to bet the money lines? You want to bet parlays? Of course, that's all there. You can even hit the casino during commercials. Everything is at my MyBookie AG in your promo codes, DBU. That means your first bet is then covered up to 500 bucks. If it doesn't hit, you got a bet back, bonus token, and then you can run it back, and there's no worries there. MyBookie Ag. Don't just watch the game Sunday. Make it pay with my bookie. Now, do you remember yesterday when we were Talking about the 27th anniversary and you were looking up. You said that we were supposed to. Was it music or song? And you said, yeah, music or an instrument. You said I should write a love song.

Casey Johnson (62:07)

Yes.

Co-host/Analyst (62:08)

And. And then sculpture was the other. Like the modern update one for the 27th anniversary Crystal, maybe mine said sculpture. Okay, so I've got to get her, like, a fountain or something. I don't know what I got to do. It's sculpture.

Dan Bernstein (62:21)

Maybe like a. Like a. Like a big statue, maybe. Oh, maybe you get hold of David.

Co-host/Analyst (62:26)

Get actual. Just go get Michelangelo's David.

Dan Bernstein (62:29)

Yeah. And put it all on. Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (62:30)

I don't know. I'd feel a little. I don't know. I feel a little.

Dan Bernstein (62:35)

You could hook up a water system to it.

Co-host/Analyst (62:38)

Just like the little cherub in the fountain, but it's actually Michelangelo's.

Dan Bernstein (62:43)

David, and he's just going pee pee.

Co-host/Analyst (62:44)

On your front lawn half the height of a house.

Dan Bernstein (62:47)

Yeah. It'd be pretty sweet taking a leak on your lawn.

Co-host/Analyst (62:49)

Yeah, I could do that.

Dan Bernstein (62:50)

Hey, babe. Happy anniversary.

Co-host/Analyst (62:52)

There you go.

Dan Bernstein (62:53)

Look out the window.

Co-host/Analyst (62:55)

You know that I did the bit there.

Dan Bernstein (62:57)

I know you did. Oh, you told us.

Co-host/Analyst (62:59)

With the kids and floors.

Casey Johnson (63:01)

Yeah.

Co-host/Analyst (63:01)

Oh, my God. What? Dad. He's got a huge crack in his ass. Dad, stop it. Dad, stop. No. You know who you're dealing with. You know I'm not gonna stop. They left you there. But anyway, when you mentioned there was a song, I started singing just an old fashioned love song.

Casey Johnson (63:19)

Yes, you did.

Co-host/Analyst (63:19)

And then I asked, who sings that? Well, several emailers said, come on, man, you know who sings that? It's Three Dog Night. Like, oh, okay, I don't. I'm no expert, but Three Dog Night, it was in the news. Their lead singer just died two days ago.

Dan Bernstein (63:43)

Oh, really?

Co-host/Analyst (63:45)

Yeah. Charles Negron. Chuck Negrone died at age 83. Yes.

Casey Johnson (63:53)

Let's go.

Dan Bernstein (63:53)

Yes. Let's go, Chuck.

Co-host/Analyst (63:55)

Chuck was kind enough to last until 83. And that was. That was their song, but they didn't write it. Do you know who wrote Old Fashioned Love Song?

Dan Bernstein (64:11)

Who wrote Old Fashioned Love Song?

Co-host/Analyst (64:13)

A famous American songwriter who you might know as a kid. He was on a lot of game shows. He was one of these 70s artifacts where you never really knew why he was on a game show or an award awards show or a roast, but he was always around.

Dan Bernstein (64:31)

Paul Williams.

Co-host/Analyst (64:32)

Yes, it was. Yes, sir. It was Paul Williams.

Dan Bernstein (64:37)

Really?

Co-host/Analyst (64:38)

Yes. No. Yes. You're kidding. You're right. You got it. Paul Williams.

Dan Bernstein (64:45)

Really?

Co-host/Analyst (64:45)

Yes. He wrote Old Fashioned Love Song. And the fact that a lot of their songs showcased Paul Williams. I didn't know that. Randy Newman wrote Mama Told Me not to Come Famous from boogie.

Dan Bernstein (64:57)

Why would she tell you? Whoa. What did mom tell you not to do?

Co-host/Analyst (65:01)

And why.

Dan Bernstein (65:02)

That's weird.

Co-host/Analyst (65:03)

And Hoyt Axton wrote Joy to the World. It was one of their other big hits.

Dan Bernstein (65:07)

But Three Dog Nights sang Joy to the World.

Co-host/Analyst (65:10)

Yes. Oh, Jeremiah was a bullfrog.

Dan Bernstein (65:12)

Yeah. No, I know the song. I didn't know that was. I guess I don't know any of the. I didn't know it was them.

Co-host/Analyst (65:16)

Yeah. Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (65:18)

So that's probably. That's another band I could put in a list of. Like, I know a lot of their music and have no idea who sang it.

Co-host/Analyst (65:23)

Like Eric Burden and War.

Dan Bernstein (65:28)

What do you mean, the song War?

Co-host/Analyst (65:29)

No, Eric. Eric Burden and the band War.

Dan Bernstein (65:33)

What did they sing?

Co-host/Analyst (65:34)

Low Rider.

Dan Bernstein (65:36)

Oh, my. Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (65:38)

Why can't we be friends?

Casey Johnson (65:41)

That's Eric.

Dan Bernstein (65:43)

What is it? Eric, Burden and War. Yeah, they sing that song, too.

Co-host/Analyst (65:46)

Yeah.

Dan Bernstein (65:46)

All right, add them to the list because I had no idea. I really didn't know that. How about Three Dog Nights?

Co-host/Analyst (65:51)

How about Spill the Wine? Dig that Girl.

Dan Bernstein (65:55)

Who's that?

Co-host/Analyst (65:56)

War. Really? Burden and War.

Dan Bernstein (65:58)

No idea.

Co-host/Analyst (65:59)

How about the Cisco Kid Was a Friend of Mine? You know that one?

Dan Bernstein (66:05)

It doesn't sound familiar.

Co-host/Analyst (66:06)

Also, Eric, Burden and War.

Dan Bernstein (66:07)

Yeah, I didn't know that. The Three Dog Night. And back to this. Mama Told Me not to Come.

Co-host/Analyst (66:12)

Great song.

Dan Bernstein (66:13)

Okay. Why is Mama telling you that?

Casey Johnson (66:16)

That.

Co-host/Analyst (66:16)

Because Mama's warning you, I think.

Casey Johnson (66:18)

Okay.

Co-host/Analyst (66:18)

Mom is warning you that bad things gonna happen.

Dan Bernstein (66:22)

Mama didn't like you.

Co-host/Analyst (66:23)

No.

Dan Bernstein (66:24)

Didn't want any more kids in this world.

Co-host/Analyst (66:25)

Well, there's that too.

Dan Bernstein (66:26)

So Randy Newman wrote that one, you said?

Co-host/Analyst (66:28)

Yes.

Dan Bernstein (66:28)

Okay, didn't know that either.

Co-host/Analyst (66:29)

The great Randy Newman. Yes. Who was Al. Who was also the singing bush in Three Amigos. That'll do it for Dan Bernstein. Unfiltered. Brought to you in partnership with my book, rookie Dan Bernstein.

Casey Johnson (66:48)

Unfiltered.

Co-host/Analyst (66:48)

Unfiltered.

Casey Johnson (66:49)

On three.

Dan Bernstein (66:50)

One, two, sports.