Chicago Bulls LOSE in Orlando | Should they trade for Anthony Davis?

Summary

Dan Bernstein Unfiltered: Chicago Bulls Lose in Orlando | Should They Trade for Anthony Davis?

Podcast: Dan Bernstein Unfiltered
Host: 312 Sports
Episode: Chicago Bulls LOSE in Orlando | Should they trade for Anthony Davis?
Date: December 2, 2025

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the Chicago Bulls’ recent struggles, focusing particularly on their ugly loss to the Orlando Magic (125–120) and the general malaise surrounding the team after a stretch of poor play. Dan Bernstein and Jason Bernstein break down the Bulls’ lack of toughness, roster construction problems, injury issues, and debate the idea of making a big move—specifically a trade for Anthony Davis. They also mix in some trademark banter, Bulls trivia, and strong opinions on what direction the team should take moving forward.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The State of the Bulls: Frustration, Softness, and Roster Limitations

• Bulls Performance Skid

  • The Bulls are now 9–11, 10th in the East, losers of four straight and five of the last six. Offensively and defensively, they’re ranked near the bottom of the league:
    • Pace: 2nd in the NBA
    • Offensive Rating: 20th
    • Defensive Rating: 22nd
    • Net Rating: 20th (00:10–01:03)

• Team Characterization:

  • Jason: “I think there’s really one word to describe them... Bad.” (01:03)
  • Dan adds: “Well, it's been soft too, the way they've lost. It didn't take long... every team is just making them their bitch is what's happening.” (01:28)

• Recurrent Problems

  • Bulls are being bullied physically on both ends—out-rebounded, out-muscled, can't contain dribble penetration, and are soft on interior defense. (01:53–02:56)
  • The experiment with players like Lachlan Ulbricht and Emmanuel Miller is a symptom of their desperation for toughness and energy, but not a true solution. (02:56–03:43)

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2. Development Challenges: Noah Asenge and Roster Fit

• Noah Asenge: Not Ready for the NBA
  • Dan relates a Bulls insider’s comment comparing Asenge’s situation to dropping a young journalist in Paris: “That's what this is like for Noah Asenge right now.” (06:10)
  • Jason acknowledges Asenge is a long-term project, comparing him to a young Giannis. "He was very young and very raw and that's what Asenge is." (06:12–07:47)

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3. Injuries and Roster Constraints

• Bulls’ rotation is "hard to cobble together" due to injuries:
  • Awaiting news on Kevin Huerter (left previous game early)
  • Kobe White's comeback continues, presumably off minute restrictions
  • Jalen Smith (knee injury)
  • Isaac Okoro (back)
  • Noted Julian Phillips’ energetic and athletic flashes, but he’s targetable on defense (07:54–08:57)

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4. Defensive Failures: Coaching and Accountability

• Defensive Breakdown:
  • Austin Rivers pointed out Bulls’ defensive inability: “If nothing else, you have to make Desmond Bane go left. And they couldn't do it.” (09:03)
  • Billy Donovan’s frustration with basic defense—if you can’t keep your guy in front for even one dribble, help defense and team defense are rendered impossible. (10:09–11:24)

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5. The Big Question: Should the Bulls Trade for Anthony Davis?

• Dan raises the scenario: Should the Bulls trade for Anthony Davis if the price is just Vuch (Nikola Vucevic), matching salary contracts (Javon Carter, Kevin Huerter, etc.), and a protected 2026 Portland pick?

  • Jason: “Yeah, why not?... No thought through.” (15:39–15:44)
  • Dan presses for serious consideration, but Jason maintains Davis would be a huge upgrade, particularly given the lack of a true “star” and rim protector on the team. (15:47–20:07)

• Key Points in Favor:

  • Davis is a Hall-of-Famer, championship experience, elite when healthy.
  • Bulls’ core remains intact (White, Giddey, Boozelis, Asenge, future picks).
  • Draft picks given up would likely not be in a “generational” draft slot.

• Key Objections:

  • Dan: “He's 32, don't care, and he doesn't play. The primary issue I have is that he just doesn't play enough.” (20:40)
  • Jason shrugs off injury history, noting the Bulls’ roster is perpetually banged up anyway: “Everybody's hurt all the time now? And Anthony Davis? Get a Hall of Famer. I don't care. Make a splash at this point.” (21:00–21:30)

• Trade Philosophy:

  • Bulls have been stuck in mediocrity; Jason advocates for boldness—either go all-in or totally rebuild. “I'd like to see some balls on that guy [AK, Bulls management] for once.” (23:01)
  • Compares to the Bears aggressively making moves to improve. (22:03–23:01)

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6. Roster Construction and Philosophical Debate

• Depth and Size Issues

  • Bulls are continually out-matched by teams with real rim protection or bigs (Clingan, Bataze, Cornett, Kalkbrenner, etc.).
  • Vucevic is simply not that guy and is consistently exposed against more athletic or physically dominant centers. (24:53–26:16)

• Eastern Conference Outlook

  • Jason: “The east sucks.” (27:36)
  • Suggests that with Davis, the Bulls are a legitimate playoff team (6th seed or better), and that pairing him with Josh Giddey could be “a lot of lobs. That’s nasty.” (28:11)

• Giddey’s Growth

  • Dan: “Stop jumping in the air without a plan... When somebody is coming from the opposite side and they're digging at the dribble... just flip it to the guy he left.” (28:29–29:19)
  • Jason’s retort: “If he fixes this one aspect... you'll score 10 more points a game and still lose because you suck at defense and don't have rim protection. So you get a star who can also protect the rim.” (29:23)

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7. Bulls Trivia and Lighthearted Banter

• Australian NBA Players

  • Trivia segment listing top Australian-born NBA scorers. (32:22–34:47)
  • Amusing back-and-forth over pronunciation, NBA history, and who “knows ball.”
  • Top three: Kyrie Irving, Patty Mills, Andrew Bogut. (33:12–33:29)

• Most 20-Point Games by a Non-All-Star Since 2004-05

  • Jason’s list stumps Dan. Answers: C.J. McCollum (#1), Rudy Gay (#2), Jamal Crawford (#3), Monta Ellis (#4), Al Jefferson (#5). (37:11–41:01)

• Brotherly Barbs

  • Frequent teasing and mock insults, e.g., “You sound like the 'I'm gonna dip my balls in a guy.' You sound like the—" (21:45) and “Suck my nards.” (42:04)
  • You can hear the comfortable, unfiltered rapport the show is named for.

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8. Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On the Bulls’ Softness:
  • Dan: “They are getting bullied on both ends of the floor.” (01:53)
• On Making a Bold Move:
  • Jason: “I'm so tired of them, of the middle, middle, middle… I'd like to see some balls on that guy for once.” (22:03, 23:01)
• On Anthony Davis’ Fit:
  • Jason: “If you trade for Anthony Davis, you got a star. And this league calls for star power... You still have Josh Giddey on what I would consider a team friendly contract.” (19:28)
• On the Risk of Trading for Davis:
  • Dan: “He's 32, don't care, and he doesn't play. The primary issue I have is that he just doesn't play enough.” (20:40)
• Trivia Mic Drop:
  • Jason: “Yes, I am, because I know ball and you don't.” (41:23)
• On Team Direction:
  • Jason: “Either trade for Anthony Davis or just get a bunch of picks and just sit there and do whatever. Don't care. Do something.” (22:03)

9. Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |------------------------------------------------------------------|-------------| | Breaking down Bulls’ current record and struggles | 00:10–01:53 | | Team softness and getting bullied | 01:53–03:43 | | Noah Asenge’s development analogy | 06:08 | | Injury/rotation updates | 07:54–08:57 | | Austin Rivers’ defensive assessment | 09:03–10:09 | | Billy Donovan's defensive standards | 10:09–11:24 | | Trade for Anthony Davis hypothetical | 14:59–16:47 | | Draft prospects and pick philosophy | 16:47–18:15 | | Zion Williamson news | 18:15–18:30 | | Youth core, keeping prospects | 19:28–20:07 | | Debate on Bulls’ trade direction ("do something!") | 22:03–23:01 | | Rim protection and Vucevic’s limitations | 24:53–26:16 | | Trivia: Top Australian NBA players | 32:22–36:47 | | Trivia: Non-All-Star 20-point games | 37:11–41:01 | | Closing barbs and sign-off banter | 41:23–43:40 |

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Tone & Final Thoughts

The episode is classic “unfiltered” Bernstein: direct, frustrated, at times exasperated—but always candid and well-informed. The hosts alternate between smart, critical basketball analysis and irreverent, brotherly banter. Their core message: the Bulls must break from their pattern of aimless mediocrity, either by swinging big or by committing to a hard reset. A trade for Anthony Davis, even with its risks, is presented as the kind of bold move the organization desperately needs—or, if not, finally embrace a genuine rebuild.

If you’re a Bulls fan looking to vent, laugh, and hear sharp debate about the team’s future, this is a must-listen episode.

Transcript

[A]

Organizations Win Championships, A Chicago Bulls Podcast with Jason and dan Bernstein on Three One Two Sports.

[B]

It's episode 121 of Organizations Win Championships, a Chicago Bulls Podcast. I'm Dan Bernstein, that is Jason Bernstein. And our Chicago Bulls have run into some very, very serious problems and some silly problems as well. All kinds of them. They're 9 and 11. They're 10th now in the NBA East. They just came off a loss to Orlando at Orlando, 125 to 120. They're second in the league in pace. They are 20th in offensive rating, 22nd in defensive rating, 20th in net rating. And I don't know really what you can say is about just how ugly and how consistently ugly these four consecutive losses, these five in the last six, starting with that loss to the Heat and maybe even starting with the win over the Blazers in that second half have been.

[A]

I think there's really one word to describe them and I use the same word for Marco Simonovic.

[B]

Bad.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Well, it's been soft too, the way they've lost. It didn't take long for teams around the league to get the book on what's going on. And last time we were here, it was a week ago that they had just gotten that wake up call from Nicola Vuchevic after the game when he.

[A]

Not even a wake up call. That wasn't a wake up call. That was like a wake up call is when you. It was a wake up call from the Wizards is what it was. I wouldn't necessarily say it was a wake up call from Vuch, but Vuch was the only one that picked it up. And, and I don't even know if Billy did because they, they, they look awful and they look soft and every team is just making them their bitch is what's happening.

[B]

Well, and they're doing it in similar fashion where it doesn't take a great advanced scout at this point to look at what's going on in these games. And what's happening is they're getting bullied on both ends of the floor. They are getting pushed around physically, they are getting too easily screened, they're getting blown by on defense where it's one dribble and they're past their guy. They are also getting just murdered on the boards. Anytime it matters, somebody is just racing through them and taking the ball. What is also happening is anytime a bull is turning the corner on the dribble, particularly giddy and Boozelis, that perimeter weak side defender is coming off to dig at the ball, rake it away, tap it away. And it's working almost every time. And I don't know what the answer is other than to try to have other people handling the ball, but that's not really what they want right now.

[A]

No. And they. They've Even back to the toughness thing. They've had to put in Lachlan Ulbricht and I told you Emmanuel Miller would. Would get some run.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

And year eight.

[B]

Yeah. Lachlan Ulbricht getting in the game. I just.

[A]

I love Scottish.

[B]

I know, but he should be. And I love saying his name that way because I know he's Australian, but he sounds like he should be Scottish.

[A]

He does kind of look like a Scottish drunk.

[B]

Lachlan Ulbrich. It's just fun to say in a Scottish accent and. Wait, isn't AC DC Australian and Scottish?

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Mm.

[B]

And that's what I thought. So then you're automatically cool if that's. But at least Lachlan and Giddey, the other teams won't know what they're talking about when they're speaking in their native language.

[A]

Right?

[B]

True. So they. They can come down the floor and because they're speaking in fluent Australian, nobody else could possibly understand what they're saying. It's like some sort of secret code.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's. It's. Whatever. I really don't get. I really don't think that's relevant to how bad the Bulls have been.

[B]

You realize that Australians speak English, right?

[A]

Yeah, It's a unique dialect of English.

[B]

Well, it can be. Some of the regional dialects are difficult to understand. You do the worst Australian accent. So please don't hurt us with that. Please, please do us a favor.

[A]

Why'd you even mention it, then?

[B]

Because it's.

[A]

Or I might see.

[B]

No, that's not an Australian accent. I don't know what you're doing, but it's not an Australian accent. If your friends tell you it's good, they're lying.

[A]

I'm too low energy on the Bulls for this. I can't be happy about the Bulls, because.

[B]

No, I'm not saying you need to be happy about them.

[A]

They suck.

[B]

But there's a way out of this, right? There has to be. No, as of trade, Vuch.

[A]

Trade.

[B]

We'll get to that smorgasbord. We'll get to that trade, everyone. We'll get to it.

[A]

Because everyone I know, there is a deal out there.

[B]

But as of the latest that we know, Zach Collins is going to begin his ramp up by playing in some G League games.

[A]

Oh yeah, that's going to matter so much for today.

[B]

And Dale and Terry is also going to do some G League stuff. I would like to see Noah Asenge sent somewhere, some incubator for development somewhere because he is lost. He's completely lost and not ready for, for NBA ball. I was talking to a. Somebody with the Bulls about a Sangay and trying to get some read on what was difficult for him and this person told me, imagine if Jason were got to become a sports journalist at his current age and was sent to Paris and basically dropped off in Paris working for some giant newspaper or radio station or TV station or website. And they said, that's it, here you go. You're a professional sports journalist. Welcome to Paris.

[A]

Go.

[B]

That's what this is like for Noah Senge right now.

[A]

Yeah, that's. He needs time and Ulbricht looks more professional than a Senge does. I mean, but I think, I think we knew that when it, when it came to what the Bulls were trying to do with that draft pick. Nobody, nobody would have taken him if they didn't think it would be a project. And I don't want, I'm not going to try to jump to any conclusions. No, but I mean, but I mean Giannis was like that. He was the exact same where nobody knew what he could do and nobody, nobody knew who he was, nobody knew anything about him and he was very young and very raw and that's what a Senge is. So I don't think, I think it's way, way, way too early to judge a Senge. Do I think he's bad right now? Of course, I don't think he's good at all, but there are signs pointing up he's playing well in the G League. He's, he's got some traits and you know, he's what, six' ten? So who knows, who knows what, what's going on? However, I don't, I don't know exactly where he fits in. Considering the way the Bulls roster is constructed at the moment with Modest and Patrick being on a long term deal and I mean, I know they're very different, but Okoro kind of can kind of play that role a bit. I should say that that role in the sense of the old school, four, three or four. So it's tough to know exactly what's going to happen, but why not take a trades guy with where they are you have.

[B]

I'm not mad at the pick. I just. He's certainly not going to affect this team right now and not going to affect anything for the near future.

[A]

Do you want to jump to the trade stuff now?

[B]

No, I just, I want to look at the injuries right now that as we're going to. We're awaiting word on Kevin Herder and because he left early in the game last night and don't know exactly what his deal is going to be going forward at the moment. Kobe White is still continuing his comeback and I believe the no back to back restriction is now over. So he should be back. Jalen Smith has a knee issue and he was out. Isaac Okoro is still dealing with a back problem and it's just been very hard to cobble a roster together. You saw everything when Julian Phillips made some unbelievable plays last night. And you see how springy and active and how he really is a sort of a baseline predator down there. And then you saw him just get worked over defensively, targeted attacked and blown by when Desmond Bain was getting wherever he wanted to go. And Destiny, he's good. And as.

[A]

But as Austin Rivers, I mean, he looked like he was worth five or five first round picks or whatever it was they gave him to get him.

[B]

I don't know about that, but. But Austin Rivers made a really, really good point. And I thought he had an excellent game last night. Austin Rivers, he's going to be a very good.

[A]

No, he's been good. He's been good.

[B]

He's just good. He's. He's really fun. He's personable. He's, he's, he's. I just, he's the kind of person that you kind of want to hang out with. I mean, he seems smart and engaged and curious. I really liked his work. And he pointed out that if nothing else, you have to make Desmond Bain go left. And they couldn't, they couldn't do it. And he called it. He saw Bane coming, right, and he said, here he comes. This is gonna be butter. And Bain caught it and drained a three. And it was as it was happening. He was sitting right there saying what was gonna happen. And he had. He basically was talking about the Bulls inability to stay in front of people. And even when they tried to draw a charge, it was. I think it was IO who didn't get there in time and allowed Bane to go around with Suggs. Actually, that dude is a wrecking ball too.

[A]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

Physical, physical player. And they were taking it right at the Bulls, right into him. Billy Donovan said that when asked why. Why not help out faster? Why not bring weak side defensive help? His point was well taken and it was, well, what do you expect me to do if you can't stop a guy from more even for a dribble? And I've heard this, too, and I'm sure you have, Jay, about passable defense is staying in front of your guy for a. For a dribble. Good defense is being on your guy, you know, stopping him for two dribbles and plus defense, like, really effective defense. If you could stay with your guy for three dribbles in the league, and when too many bulls can't even reach the one dribble standard, you don't have time to help, how can you react? You got to give the help at least an understanding with the ball balls on the floor for more than a split second of who's going and when and who's covering for whom. That's essentially the point Billy was making, is you can't even structure a defense if there's an immediate blowby.

[A]

So what's the fix?

[B]

I don't know. Well, you know what the fix is? No, you know what the fix is? The fix would be what Gogo Batase was doing to them last night. Erasing everything. That's fine if you have a guy back there or you have a couple of people who can individually dissuade a shot, change a shot.

[A]

Maybe that's why, I guess they need Zach Collins because he'll make a huge difference in that department and for the entire team. Zach Collins is gonna make them the five seed in the East.

[B]

You're violating one of our rules. You are. You're doom spiraling.

[A]

I'm allowed to doom spiral. I need to offset the positivity that the bears have given me.

[B]

No, you don't.

[A]

Yes, I. What do you have to say? I need to keep a level head.

[B]

Why don't you keep a level head about the bears by understanding that they're just a couple outcomes away from dropping all the way to the seventh seed after one week.

[A]

Because I've never experienced this before, and I'm just gonna allow myself to enjoy it even though I know that they're not gonna end up being there. I'm just gonna allow myself to enjoy it while it's there. Because the old saying of, you don't know the good old days until you've already left them. I'm trying to. We're in the good old days right now, and so I'm trying to enjoy it.

[B]

Okay, you' fast forwarding through the fun part. I think you're supposed to actually enjoy it. Oh, you know, I want to mention something too, before I forget that this is Giving Tuesday and We're proud on 312Sports to be partnered today with a great organization, a Chicago based organization called Rebecca's Dream. And they win championships, they'[e-mail] and they exist to raise awareness and inform others to foster a better understanding of depression and bipolar disorder and other things along that spectrum of mood disorders. And they promote compassionate understanding of depression and bipolar disorder as real diseases to combat the stigma of mental illness. And we've talked about it on this podcast. Unfortunately, we all have experience with such things and we've highlighted when DeMar DeRozan was a bull, how willing he was to talk about his battle and indeed in Andre Drummond. And I was thankfully able to mention something to Andre and he mention that he would enjoy the possibility of coming on at some point and talking about his evolution and how he the treatment that he's undergone for help.

[A]

And also that would just be pretty damn cool because it's Andre Drummond.

[B]

Because everything about Andre Drummond is cool.

[A]

He's so awesome.

[B]

I know. He really is. He really is a great guy. But if indeed you have a little bit of disposable income and you want to help on this Giving Tuesday, you can go to rebeccasdream.org or you can look at on the 312 sports socials. You can look at my socials or you can go if you're watching on YouTube, into the comments down below or the description and we should have links to all of that with Rebecca's dream. And I like the fact that the NBA, I want to mention Kevin Love as well, who had some issues with anxiety and panic attacks. And Kevin Love has been very open and honest about his battle and his journey and what he's been going through with mental health. And I like to think the NBA is on the forefront of some of that stuff. So it's cool.

[A]

Yep.

[B]

If you right now Jason Bernstein could trade for Anthony Davis and not really have to give up a whole lot. If I just said it was matching salary, it's vouch and fill it out vouch and whatever you can do, whether it's Javon Carter, Herter, maybe I.O. and the the lottery protected 2026 pick that is coming from Portland, would you do that?

[A]

Yeah, why not?

[B]

Let's really think it through. Would you?

[A]

No thought through.

[B]

That's all it took.

[A]

Yep. Because what I, I understand that IO's good. Don't get me wrong. So what you say, Herder IO there's.

[B]

Gonna be some salary package. But the main, the main piece is gonna be that pick because you're gonna.

[A]

You'Re trying lottery protected.

[B]

Right?

[A]

Right.

[B]

That's.

[A]

You're not giving up anything. It's going to Portland. They're not a playoff team.

[B]

And then I think you've got one year, one more year of first round lottery protection. And if it doesn't convey then I think it becomes a second round pick.

[A]

You said 20, 26 pick. That's this year.

[B]

It's this year. And if it doesn't convey this year, they have another shot at it. If they're in the lottery this year and if they're, if they're again in the lottery in 27, I think you have it. Well, you have one more shot at.

[A]

Well, this. Yeah, fine. I don't care. Even if they make the playoffs in 2027. Who don't care because this draft is ridiculous.

[B]

Yeah, it is.

[A]

So when you have three guys that are number one overall talents, if not.

[B]

More, in DebonSA and the Kansas kid.

[A]

Peterson.

[B]

Peterson, yeah. Who's still hurt.

[A]

Oh, he's going, he's. I think he's going to go number one. But Boozer, DeBons and Peterson are your top three. Okay.

[B]

How much have you watched those guys?

[A]

A little bit. But Pete Peterson's. He's got game, man. He. The way I'd put it, the way I see him right now is like I think in a few years and I just think he's this good. Why can't he be a taller Donovan Mitchell? And that's high praise.

[B]

Well, people didn't even realize Donovan Mitchell was going to be Donovan Mitchell.

[A]

But that's what I'm saying. Right. So I'm saying current Donovan Mitchell, but you add four inches. Pause. You know, like damn good basketball player. Well, and also co opied from Arizona is disgusting. Yes, Nate Ament from Tennessee is a great player as well. There are some dudes here and it's also a deep draft there. There are a lot of players and that guy. And I know he's not going to be a very high pick. I still think Yaxel Lundeborg from Michigan, formerly uab. I still think he's.

[B]

Oh, I remember him from uab.

[A]

Yeah, I still think he's going to be a great NBA player.

[B]

There's actually a little bit of breaking NBA news here on the pod. Sham Shirania reports that Zion Williamson will miss extended time with a right abductor injury. He'll be re evaluated in three weeks.

[A]

Surprise. That didn't Feel bad for him, man.

[B]

I do too. I do too.

[A]

Because he slimmed down. Maybe he's just glass. Chris in New Orleans, number one overall picks, you got Anthony Davis and Zion Williamson. Well, back. Back to A.D. yeah, A.D. the first ballot hall of Famer. But back to. Back to A.D. does. I know I was good and I know Vuj and I know Kevin. I know Kevin Herder is tough and he's a good player, but are those three really going to be on the roster? And do you think they are necessary to win a championship? If you're the Chicago Bulls, do they. Do keeping them on the roster really get you that much closer?

[B]

No.

[A]

But 32. Does Anthony Davis within the neck like in the next two years? I still think that gets them closer to winning a title. And you still have Josh Giddy on what I would consider a team friendly contract.

[B]

Oh, it is.

[A]

You retain. You retain. Depending how much they want to pay him. Assuming they keep Kobe White because he's a part of their young core. Because there was a report today that said the Bulls are not wanting to give up any of their young core. This was from NB NBC Sports. And let's see the Bulls picture the young. Their young core is Giddy, White, Boozelis, and hopefully Noah is Senge and whomever they draft in the next couple of years in the first round. And there was a report that Okoro might be included in that young core as well. I don't. I don't give a no shit about a coral.

[B]

No, no, no.

[A]

I doubt it. But it's. It's. Why, why not at this point, pull the trigger. I don't care. I don't. I don't think retaining any of those guys gets you any closer. They're so stuck in the middle. I think they either trade all those guys and get a ton of draft capital or you go big. And so I'd rather see something than nothing after the past 5, 10 years, 15 years of not making any trades. So go for it.

[B]

He's 32, don't care, and he doesn't play. The primary issue I have is that he just doesn't play enough.

[A]

All right. Against the Nuggets last night in a win, Anthony Davis, 32 minutes, 32 points, 4 assists and 13 rebounds. Yeah, not. Not half bad.

[B]

It's not. When he plays, he can play like the hall of Famer that he is.

[A]

But the Bulls are hurt anyway. All those guys get hurt all the time. Kevin Herder had stuff he knows and he had to sit. He played six minutes Yesterday or whatever. Like who cares that everybody's hurt all the time now? And Anthony Davis get a Hall of Famer. I don't care. Make a splash if that at this point.

[B]

Or just get rid of all the.

[A]

Shut up. Or just get rid of all these guys. Hey, hey.

[B]

Whoa, oh, oh, no.

[A]

No time out for that. No time out for that. You deserve that because you're Dan Bernstein and you need to shut up every.

[B]

Once in a while.

[A]

And so I, I know I sound entitled right now, but right. Just shut up. And so stop, stop sounding like the. I'm gonna dip my balls in a guy. You look, you sound, you sound. You sound like the.

[B]

My ball. Yeah, Louie Louie, who's got something for me?

[A]

But either trade for it. Shut the hell up. I'm gonna. Okay, either. Either Anthony, either trade for Anthony Davis or just get a bunch of picks and just sit there and do whatever. Don't care. Do something. I'm so tired of them, of the middle, middle, middle. And I'm going to bring the Bears up again. Look what they do. They go out in free agency or even at the deadline. I know Joe Tryon Trianka. But in the middle of the season they sign a guy that has been really, really, really helpful in C.J. gardner Johnson. And in the off season they make a bunch of moves to get better and the trade they made with Carolina made them better and they got them closer to winning a title. And people want to crap on Ryan Poles. At least he does stuff. At least he's bold. He invests in things that needs. That need to be invested in. And so let's see, let's see AK do a little bit of that. Regardless of if it works or not. I'd like to see a little bit of. I'd like to see some balls on that guy for once.

[B]

Yeah, I would like to see them lean into something to toughness. And I don't know how and maybe I'll just ask Billy this in one of the coming days, but I don't know if you can teach toughness or you just have to play tough.

[A]

Patrick Williams. Guys definitely got. My feet smell bad.

[B]

I don't. Thanks for the update. I don't know who can be taught toughness and if there's somebody who you. What do you do? And I've seen the practices before. I' seen the one assistant coach who comes out with like the foam rubber bats and starts smacking guys around and. No, seriously. Or like that, the foam rubber two handed shield and the guy goes up and you Just keep pounding and running into him like they, they do that. There's ways to continually keep beating people up, make it like a football practice, but I don't know because this team right now is just really soft and they have to make every shot. What was exposed in the magic game was what happens when you do play well and you are making shots and you're getting some and ones that you didn't otherwise get. You got Trey Young, who was crossing people over the basket and drawing fouls. Did I say Trey Young?

[A]

Trey Jones.

[B]

Trey Jones, yes. Who was making plays against.

[A]

Trey Young is also kind of soft.

[B]

Kinda.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But Trey Jones was outplaying his brother and it was fun to watch.

[A]

Better than his brother now.

[B]

What was going on on the benches, the stuff that was being.

[A]

He's better than his brother now.

[B]

Yeah, I think he is. Yeah, I think.

[A]

Not as good of a shooter, but he's younger. Very similar players, but Ty has been in the league for a while now. Trey Jones is still pretty young.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, Trey Jones, like I say, he's. He's a legit second unit point guard.

[A]

Good player.

[B]

He is a good player. But on this team that has a lot of good players, but they just don't have anything backstopping them. And watch. There's always a guy in these games. There's always some giant dude, whether it's Donovan Clingan or Gogo Bataze, Luke Cornett. It always seems like there's some, Some big guy. Good example. Kalkbrenner. Ryan Kalkbrenner. That. Where's their guy? Lachlan, Jay, Huff, J. Hoff. Great call. Yes. Yes. Some. Some big guy who can just throw his arms around and bother things.

[A]

And it's not even just that they're tough. It's just that Vucc sucks at defense too. And he can't compete with these dudes because they're bigger than he is and they move better, they're way quicker. And every time is not that fast. He got. He has good feet and he's seven foot two or whatever and he can dunk everything and he blocks everything. It's.

[B]

It's.

[A]

It's just very frustrating. And I know we've been talking about Zach Collins, but he, I don't even think he's 7ft tall.

[B]

No, he's not. He's. I think he's 6, 11, something like that, but he's not one of those guys. I don't think he's. He's one of those people.

[A]

He's a Good player, you know, rim.

[B]

Runner, shot blocker, guys. But he's a. He's a legit rotational big.

[A]

I understand that, but this league now is. You got to be 7ft tall, and if you're not, you got to be a star. And Anthony Davis is 6:10, 6:11. But my God, is he. When he's healthy, he's great at what he does. And you're going to go when he's healthy. The Bulls team is never healthy anyway, so why not?

[B]

All right. I don't necessarily. As long as they're not giving up their own draft pick, if they're giving up one that's going to be outside the lottery, it's not as bad. I would just like to see where some of this stuff ends up translating. I think the Vuch thing is probably over. I know people adore him and want him to post up every time, but I'm. I'm not among those. I do think that this year I wish more people were listening to him, and I wish that Vuch could act on some of what he expects from his teammates, but he doesn't have the verticality, nor the quickness.

[A]

Verticality.

[B]

Shout out Roy Hibbert to do that.

[A]

Roy Hibbert mentioned on the podcast. Holy. Was not expecting that. Roy Hibbert, that's another one of those guys.

[B]

I'm gonna say a 7:2 guy that at least can disrupt a little bit. All Star. Was he an All Star?

[A]

Oh, yeah. With Indiana, he was an All Star one time.

[B]

Okay. All right. I trust your memory. And that also.

[A]

Also, also another thing with the Anthony Davis thing. The east sucks.

[B]

Yeah, it's bad.

[A]

Detroit's great. I still. I still have hope for New York, and I still think Cleveland's really good and Giannis is playing out of his mind. My can't. If you trade for Anthony Davis, you got a star. And this league calls for star power. I know that he's 32. He's still Anthony Davis.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

And so that would get them closer to a six seed. And he has championship experience.

[B]

I'm not sure what the goal is, though, because if you then.

[A]

Then in the draft next year, you get somebody to compliment him. Josh Giddey. With Anthony Davis, it's a lot of lobs. That's nasty. Yeah, that's a lot of lobs. You need a forward, like a big rim running forward, and not in that. Anthony Davis is a lot more than that.

[B]

Yeah, he is.

[A]

He is.

[B]

But giddy. By the way, another example of the highs and the lows of the Josh Giddy experience in the Orlando game where he was doing an amazing job keeping up his speed with the dribble and using his height and drawing fouls. Stop jumping in the air without a plan. If you leave your feet in traffic, shoot it. Don't turn around and then say, oh, who's open? I happen to be in the air already. And keep that dribble. When somebody is coming from the opposite side and they're digging at the dribble, that guy's left his man. You don't have to skip it into the corner, then just flip it to the guy we left.

[A]

It'll be a lot easier if you have a dude who's 7ft tall that can catch lobs and shoot threes.

[B]

That would be nice, too. But just some of the turnovers from.

[A]

You're talking about Josh Giddey. Like, if he fixes this one aspect of his game, it'll be this groundbreaking thing for him and this groundbreaking thing for the Bulls. No, it won't. You'll score two. You'll score 10 more points a game and still lose because you suck at defense and you don't have rim protection. So you get a star who can also protect the rim. You know, effort. I'm all in.

[B]

Let's go. There it is. At least one of us is absolutely all in for the Bulls to find. And here's the other thing, too. I don't think the Mavericks are going to really bend you over in that deal. I don't think it's going to take that much.

[A]

They have Cooper Flag. They don't need it.

[B]

Yeah, they don't need to.

[A]

They just want to get. They want to get 54 million off of that payroll.

[B]

That's what I'm thinking, too.

[A]

I think Cooper Flag, and this is also high praise. I think they're a little different. But. But Cooper Flagg and Anthony Davis do not play. Their roles aren't all that different when they're. When they're both asked to do the same thing. I'm not saying Cooper Flags there yet. He's not. Not even close. But. No, but.

[B]

But he's expected to be that good. Yes.

[A]

Yes. And Kyrie is still going to be coming back off of that injury. I think having Davis on that roster kind of complicates things. When Cooper Fl. Flag is there. I think Kyrie with Cooper Flag could be absolutely incredible for them.

[B]

Well, they'll talk deal. The Mavs will talk deal.

[A]

So I still. I still think it's unlikely. Rumors are heating up or whatever. I Don't know if it'll happen during the season, but I think he could be on the move. I would think he'd be on the move during the off season at the latest. Yeah.

[B]

That's going to bring us to the OWC trivia showdown. I'm sorry you're so bored that you're.

[A]

You're half asleep. I was stretching and yawning, am I not?

[B]

What time did you. You know, what time did you get up to play golf?

[A]

8:45. Okay.

[B]

It's or for you. I guess that's early for a college junior. I guess that's fairly early. Do you have a final today or a project to do?

[A]

I had one class that was canceled.

[B]

Oh, why?

[A]

Just so we could have extra time to do work. And I did a lot of it last night.

[B]

Here's extra time to do work. Where's Jason? I'm going golfing. So they didn't tell you? We're canceling class so you could play golf. That wasn't the stated reason for it.

[A]

I call it a mental health break.

[B]

Ah, okay. Because we were talking earlier about Josh Giddey and Lachlan Ulbricht.

[A]

Shut up.

[B]

What? I like saying he's not Scottish. I know he's not. He's Scottish. In my mind. He's Scottish in my mind. I have a list here.

[A]

I can't stand you.

[B]

Of Australian born NBA players. Lachlan Ulbricht, in making his debut, is now the 34th NBA or ABA player born ever. Born in Australia.

[A]

Born in Australia or like plays for the Australian national.

[B]

Australian born.

[A]

All right, Kyrie Irving.

[B]

Just, just chill your, your, your, your teas for a minute. I have a list of the top 10 Australian born NBA players in total points scored. All right, Just the total number of career points scored.

[A]

Andrew Bogut.

[B]

Andrew Bogut is third with 6,808.

[A]

Patty Mills.

[B]

Patty Mills is second with 8,004. And you just said the number one.

[A]

Kyrie Irving.

[B]

Kyrie Irving with 18,433.

[A]

Dante Axum.

[B]

Dante Exum is ninth with 1991.

[A]

Ben Simmons.

[B]

Ben Simmons is fifth with 5,021.

[A]

So did I get the top? So tell me you have 1, 2.

[B]

3, 5 and 9.

[A]

1, 2, 3, 5and 9. Okay. I don't think it's Giddy yet. Right?

[B]

Giddy is six.

[A]

Wow. Okay.

[B]

Giddy is sixth all time at 4313.

[A]

All right, I'm gonna give it to Dyson Danielson.

[B]

No, not a bad guess though. He, he's, he'll be up There real soon.

[A]

Australian born. Australian born. Australian born. Della Vadova.

[B]

Della Vadova is eighth. Matthew Della Vadova. Is he out of the game or is he playing down there now?

[A]

He's.

[B]

I.

[A]

He might be playing down there or something.

[B]

Matthew Dellavedova. Great. Guess that's. He's a 25 10. So you need 4, 7, and 10.

[A]

All right, now it's getting tough. Mm. Aaron Baines. No, I don't think Jock Landale is there yet, right?

[B]

No, he's not.

[A]

All right.

[B]

He's a. He's a mountain.

[A]

He's a horse. Yeah. That jock, Stephen Adams is from New Zealand. Correct.

[B]

But like, that Jock Landale is a beefy guy.

[A]

He's a big boy. I'm trying to think of those guys that wear those green and yellow ugly Australian jerseys in the Summer Olympics. That's what I'm really trying to go for here.

[B]

Well, you've got three very different types of players in the final three here.

[A]

I thought I was missing.

[B]

No, you've got. You're missing 4, 7, and 10.

[A]

4, 7, 10. Did I get one? Yeah. Okay. One is a formal 4, 7, and 10.

[B]

One. Yep.

[A]

How long ago?

[B]

A long time ago.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's not. Cameron Barstow.

[A]

I was gonna say. That's.

[B]

That's Chris Anstey. Long time.

[A]

Oh, Luke Longley.

[B]

There you go. I thought you're about. You're gonna say it. Yes. Luke Longley is seventh. He's in between Giddy and Della Vadova. Number four is just a number four shooter guy. Number four, just a specialty shooter guy.

[A]

Specialty. Still playing.

[B]

Three. Three. Three pointer.

[A]

Kind of.

[B]

Kind of cradles it and launches it.

[A]

Still playing?

[B]

I think so.

[A]

Cradles it and launching it.

[B]

Yeah. He's got an unconventional release, but you. He's. He's the kind of guy where it's, like, open on the secondary break and you just go, oh, God, there it is.

[A]

Oh, no. Oh, Jingles.

[B]

Jingles. Joe Ingles.

[A]

I should have gotten that one.

[B]

55,722.

[A]

That's bad. I should have gotten that one earlier.

[B]

Simmons. And number 10 is Josh Green.

[A]

Oh, wow. Surprised he's up there already. Good friend.

[B]

Yeah. Josh Green.

[A]

Interesting. I didn't expect him to be up there. He's young.

[B]

Yeah, but there he is. And that. Those are the top 10. Australian born.

[A]

Pretty well there, I think.

[B]

I agree. I think you did too.

[A]

I think you. You tried to trim me up with the Kyrie thing, huh?

[B]

I didn't try to trip you up with anything.

[A]

All right.

[B]

All right.

[A]

So I know. And this was unintentional, but it just kind of worked. But we mentioned how Roy Hibbert was a one time all star.

[B]

Yes.

[A]

So I want you to name since 2004, 2005, the top. The. The most 20 point games by a non all star.

[B]

Top five since 04.05. Top 20 number of 20 point games.

[A]

Yeah, the top five number. Number of 20 point games by a non all star.

[B]

How about Jamal Crawford?

[A]

Number three, 349.

[B]

Lou Williams.

[A]

Nope. Surprisingly. But there's one other player on here in that realm with Jamal Crawford and Lou Williams.

[B]

And how many did Crawford have?

[A]

349.

[B]

Wow.

[A]

So number one has 406 and counting. That's a hint.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Number two, 372. Number four, 336. Number five, 313. And so number one is still active.

[B]

Wow, this is really hard. 463. So Jamal Crawford at 349 and Lou Williams is not among them.

[A]

Nope.

[B]

I'm. I'm trying to think of. See most of the guys who I'm thinking of are like current scorers who might end up making one of these teams.

[A]

There's only one current player right now and he's at. He's number one. He's still going. I think he had one the other day.

[B]

Is one of the Bogdanovich is on there.

[A]

Nope. One of them is at like has like 200 some though. Bojan does. That's what I mean. Yeah.

[B]

No, he has 200 something 200 of these games. Of 20 point games. He always seems to have one against the Bulls. Reggie Jackson.

[A]

Now all. I would say all of these guys are better than that for sure. I'm surprised that. I would say two of them have never been an All Star. I'm surprised the current one has never been an All Star and I'm surprised. So that's number one. I'm surprised the guy number five was never an all star.

[B]

What about like Duncan Robinson?

[A]

Not even close. Not. Not for these guys. Not even close. Better. And it's funny because number five, he made an all NBA team, but never an All Star team.

[B]

What?

[A]

Fun fact. He was All NBA third team in 2014. Averaged 22 and 11.

[B]

Average 22 and 11 and wasn't an All Star. Correct. I just. My knowledge of all star teams isn't just. Isn't good enough. See, I know Zach Levine was part of this group.

[A]

An All Star.

[B]

I know. But he was one of these guys on the lists of guys who hadn't been an All Star.

[A]

This is really poor. These are easy names, but I don't know who.

[B]

I just don't know who has.

[A]

Then why don't you name anybody?

[B]

Because I don't know who's made All Star teams who has. I could just start naming good players, and I wouldn't be a hint.

[A]

One of them. One of them is another Jamal Crawford type. One played for a while and was just really solid his entire career. The other guy, I thought at one point he would but did.

[B]

Like, I don't know, did Manu Ginobili make an All Star team?

[A]

It's not Manu Ginobili, but these are the guys.

[B]

Like, I don't. I don't. I don't know if they made it or not. I thought.

[A]

This is a good question. Now you're making it feel bad.

[B]

It probably is. So go ahead and give me the answers.

[A]

All right. Number one, C.J. mcCollum. Dumbass. Number two, Rudy Gay. Dumbass. Number four, Monte Ellis. Dumbass. And number five, Al Jefferson, dumbass.

[B]

Come on.

[A]

I wouldn't own any of these.

[B]

It's too hard.

[A]

Rudy Gay. That, like, when I heard what I saw that. This is from the Enjoy Basketball podcast. When I saw this for the first. When I saw. When I heard what the question I.

[B]

Should have gotten first.

[A]

The first name I said was Rudy Gay. The second name I said was Jamal Crawford. And the third name I said was Montales.

[B]

Well, you're better than I am at it.

[A]

Yes, I am, because I know ball and you don't.

[B]

Okay, then.

[A]

And I know. And I know. What was it? Seven of the top 10 Australian scores without any hints?

[B]

I probably would have gotten some of those. I probably would have gotten those.

[A]

You wouldn't have got. I don't think you would have gotten Kyrie. I don't think you would have gotten Kyrie.

[B]

Yes, because we did a trivia question like this a while ago with Kyrie and with Ben Simmons and all that. Someday it'll be like, I don't think.

[A]

You would have gotten Dante Axum. You definitely wouldn't have gotten Bogut. I don't think he would have gotten Della Vadova. I don't know.

[B]

Maybe I would have. All right, get out of here. Go study for something.

[A]

Suck my nards.

[B]

Stop. You can't do that. Seriously, you shouldn't be in a bad mood today. You got to play golf this morning.

[A]

No, I'm in a great mood. And then I have to see you.

[B]

Man. This is brutal.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And you're coming home in what, a week?

[A]

Ten days or so.

[B]

Stay there. Seriously?

[A]

Please?

[B]

Well, yeah, I'm not gonna pay for you to stay there. You can stay there and you can. You can sell drugs or something. Do something to make a couple of bucks.

[A]

Awesome.

[B]

What is this? When did it turn into Sanford and Son all of a sudden?

[A]

I think. I think. I think Matty was going after you, too. I think it's Slap Danny day.

[B]

Yeah, what is this? Slap Boris day? All right, that's it for that. Is it for OWC number 121. Like, subscribe and do all the. Do all the things. Oh, Maddie's in the toy section. I think. I think he's.

[A]

He's.

[B]

He's drunk on Robitussin. Maddie's under the weather, so I think he's.

[A]

Bye, sack machine.

[B]

You're right.

[A]

Organizations win championships. A Chicago Bulls podcast with Jason and dan Bernstein on 312 Sports.