Coby White is TRADED to Charlotte for Collin Sexton and draft picks

Summary

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Podcast Summary: Dan Bernstein Unfiltered (Ep. 13030)

"Coby White is TRADED to Charlotte for Collin Sexton and draft picks"

Podcast: Dan Bernstein Unfiltered
Hosts: Dan Bernstein & (Jason)
Producer: 312 Sports
Date: February 4, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this urgent, reaction-driven episode, Dan Bernstein and his co-host break down the Chicago Bulls’ long-awaited embrace of a full rebuild, discussing the headline trade of Coby White to the Charlotte Hornets in return for Collin Sexton, Usman Jang, and three second-round picks. The hosts provide unfiltered analysis on the Bulls’ new direction, the timing and rationale behind the trades, and the organization's shift in philosophy. There's a tone of both exasperation and relief as they examine whether management has finally committed to tearing down and restructuring for a hopeful future after years of stagnation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Bulls Finally Commit to the Rebuild

• Embracing the “Tank” (01:01–04:12)
  • After years of calls for a teardown, the Bulls front office, led by Artūras Karnišovas, is finally enacting a full rebuild.
  • “[They’ve] embraced a full-on rebuild, including what appears to be a tank for this year and this year’s draft.” – Jason (01:03)
  • The strategy marks a stark shift from “dinner theater” competitiveness to asset accumulation and future focus.

The Coby White Trade Breakdown

• Return Details and Asset Count (01:46–02:24)

  • The full package from Charlotte: Collin Sexton, Usman Jang, three second-round picks.
  • Counting recent deals (incl. Sarić trade), the Bulls have acquired five second-round picks in this rebuild phase.
  • Notable confusion and debate over the exact draft picks received, highlighting how fast-moving and complicated the NBA trade deadline can be.

• Why Did Coby White Play Last Night? (02:42–03:29)

  • Both hosts slam the Bulls’ decision to play Coby White—a clear trade asset—the night before the deadline, risking injury and potentially tanking his value.
  • “Allowing an obvious trade asset in the middle of the deadline fever to risk injury is inexcusable.” – Dan (02:47)
  • Repeated incredulity and frustration over decision-making priorities.

Where Do the Bulls Go From Here?

• Building Blocks and Core Evaluation (09:07–10:18)

  • Discussion on potential core: Josh Giddey, Modest Bruzeelis, Jaden Ivey, Ayo Dosunmu, Patrick Williams, and Usman Jang.
  • Debate over young prospects, especially French forward Usman Jang, and his fit within a yet-undefined core.

• Potential for Further Moves (03:34, 13:19, 17:43)

  • The deadline hasn’t passed; speculation about the status of Ayo Dosunmu and whether he could net a first-round pick.
  • Bulls now have massive cap flexibility and are positioned as potential players in restricted free agency.

• Management’s Late Realization & Consequences (06:33–10:06, 29:34–30:08)

  • The show criticizes management for waiting too long, which has likely cost the team draft capital and return on previous assets (DeRozan, Lonzo, LaVine, Caruso, Vucevic).
  • “You don’t have a single first-round pick, and that is almost entirely a function of waiting too long.” – Dan (06:33)

• Frustration with “All Guards” Lineup & Lack of Size (04:01–04:17, 30:18–31:08)

  • The imbalance of the latest trades leaves the Bulls with a glut of guards and persistent issues with size and rim protection.
  • Multiple mentions of wanting the Bulls to target rim protectors or athletic bigs like Yves Missi.

Deadline Mayhem Around the League

• Washington Wizards’ Surprise Moves (05:05–05:59)

  • Bafflement over the Wizards swinging big for stars (Trey Young and Anthony Davis) despite being in a strong draft class.
  • “How you think that Trey Young and AD is all of a sudden something to catapult you into contention...” – Jason (05:25)

• Panic Deals Elsewhere

  • Harden to Cleveland is dissected as a “panic deal for both teams” (16:02–16:36).
  • Strong emphasis on the “wild, wild deadline” and the sheer unpredictability of the current NBA landscape.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Why did Coby White play last night? I cannot get past this.” – Jason (02:42)
• “Allowing an obvious trade asset in the middle of the deadline fever to risk injury is inexcusable.” – Dan (02:47)
• “This is all we were asking for. For two years. For two years saying this build is over, it’s not going anywhere.” – Dan (16:43)
• “Are they closer to winning a championship right now than they were 48 hours ago? …Yeah, I think so.” – Jason & Dan (19:24–19:43)
• “At least it’s change.” – Jason (33:45)
• “If this… Are they going to be here 10 years? How long are you going to give them? …This has got to be his last build, right?” – Dan (33:49)
• “People find Someone in your life who loves you as much as Jason Bernstein loves Carlo Matkovic.” – Dan, teasing his co-host’s fixation on a Bulls prospect (46:04)
• “Thank you for… I had to find something. It didn’t say Bernstein on the back. I wore this to the Blackhawks game.” – Dan, closing with a lighthearted anecdote (47:52)

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Important Segments & Timestamps

• Bulls Embrace the Tank: 01:01–04:12
• Coby White Trade Breakdown & Asset Count: 01:46–02:24
• Coby White Playing Pre-Trade: 02:42–03:29
• Future Moves & Core Evaluation: 09:07–10:18
• Front Office Critique: 06:33–10:06, 29:34–30:08
• Deadline Market Mayhem – Wizards & Harden Deals: 05:05–05:59, 15:47–16:36
• Comedy and Bulls Fandom (showdown trivia, jersey story): 40:01–48:19
• Washington Post Editorial Rant (end segment): 49:03–50:16

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Tone & Takeaways

Dan and Jason are simultaneously candid, frustrated, and dryly comedic, consistently reflecting a passionate Bulls fandom. They are relieved to see meaningful change, but remain skeptical, if not pessimistic, about upper management's long-term vision. The episode is peppered with deep NBA salary cap knowledge, references to league-wide chaos, and a mix of statistical and emotional reasoning about the future.

Bottom Line:
The Bulls’ rebuild has finally begun, albeit later than most fans wished. For all the relief at change, questions remain about the front office’s ability to maximize future assets and construct a true contender. As Dan says, “At least it’s change” (33:45)—but Bulls fans have earned the right to want more.

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Transcript

[A]

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[C]

Organizations win championships A Chicago Bulls.

[A]

Podcast with Jason and dan Bernstein on 312 sports.

[C]

Well, you wait long enough and finally you get what you've been asking for for years. And that is albeit late. Arturis Carnishiovis and the Chicago Bulls have embraced a full on rebuild, including what appears to be a tank for this year and this year's draft. This is episode 13030 of organizations win Championships, a Chicago Bulls and NBA podcast here on 312 Sports. So the latest is Kobe White and Mike Conley Jr. As the salary throw in go to Charlotte for Usman Jang who had been acquired from the Oklahoma City Thunder.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

And he comes back to the Bulls with another second round pick and that is what, five second round picks now that they have total that they've acquired and now they're a team of all guards.

[A]

Is it four or five? Because the Sarge trade they got two.

[C]

I should mention, by the way, it's Colin Sexton, Colin Sexton, Jang and three second rounders.

[A]

So it is so three from that one. Didn't they get two in the Sarge one?

[C]

Yep.

[A]

And then the swap. So then that. That's five.

[C]

It's a total of five added.

[A]

However, that that one from the as we talked about yesterday, the one from Boston Slash is the New Orleans one. Correct. So I'm almost giving myself like a saying that's a first round equivalent in some ways.

[C]

Why did Kobe White play last night? I cannot get past this.

[A]

Yeah, it's really stupid.

[C]

I can't get past this. How did they let him play last night? Yeah, somebody's got to explain that to me. I mean I know we talked to Casey Johnson on DBU earlier today and he talked about the competitive integrity and Competitive integrity is one thing, but allowing an obvious trade asset in the middle of the deadline fever to, to risk injury is inexcusable. You could have lost that game by 20 points without him playing.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's, it was really stupid. It was really stupid.

[C]

I don't understand that at all.

[A]

I don't, I don't understand what's going to happen from here.

[C]

Oh, I do.

[A]

I. I don't. With. I think they'll make more trades, right?

[C]

Well, they certainly can. But I think right now, forget this year. Finally, finally two years too late at a minimum.

[A]

They're.

[C]

They're doing a passive tank. I mean, this, this looks like they're say, billy, go ahead and you know, play what you got left, but they're going to be in the lottery.

[A]

It's still, it's still, it's even then. It still annoys me that they don't have any size.

[C]

Forget this year.

[A]

Forget it.

[C]

It doesn't matter. They're finally tanky. This.

[A]

Why don't. But the thing is that why don't you add somebody that wouldn't affect how you win right now and could ultimately help you tank, but you get somebody that for the future could be a solid player. I E Yvesi. And who knows?

[C]

They might, they might. Still. We could finish this up. We could get to the end of this show and even see could end up.

[A]

I usually turn my ph on do not disturb. I am, I am still going to be looking at this.

[C]

Good.

[A]

And just because I feel like I have to. This has been such a weird deadline and I've been talking about it with my roommate who is a very smart NBA mind and none of us can understand. Neither of us can understand. What in God's name is Washington doing?

[C]

Oh, that I don't get. I don't know why you're trying.

[A]

It's one of the best draft classes we've seen in a long time. Well, last month.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And last month you trade for Trey Young and now you trade for Anthony Davis and you give away three firsts or two first.

[C]

Sorry.

[A]

Because the Triple J trade Jaron Jackson was three firsts.

[C]

I don't know. And how you think that Trey Young and AD Is all of a sudden something to catapult you into contention.

[A]

They have some decent pieces. I like Trey Johnson a lot. The sixth overall pick from last season. I like Koulibaly. But AD Is hurt right now and it makes less sense than AD Going to the Bulls earlier this season when they were 6 and 1, when that was really Swirling that made more sense at the time than this does right now, in my opinion.

[C]

Well, I'm not worried about them. I'm much more concerned with what the Bulls are doing and it just seems out of character for Carnage Chovis, who previously has shown no inclination whatsoever to value second round picks, value any draft capital, really. It's just amazing that because they did this late. If you look at the unloading, the unwinding of DeRozan, Lonzo Levine, Caruso Vuch. Well, Caruso, at least he got something for.

[A]

Yeah, I agree with that. But no draft capital.

[C]

Correct. And now you don't have a single first round pick and that is almost entirely a function of waiting too long. Yeah, as far as I can tell. I mean, I don't know what he was offered.

[A]

And also the deadline isn't over or the it hasn't had. The deadline has not been passed.

[C]

Right.

[A]

So I doubt they're gonna trade IO at this point. Why? Because I thought. I thought it was gonna be a Kobe or IO situation to looked more like Kobe and they love IO and I just. And I still think that even though I don't know. Yeah, they might trade IO I don't think they will, but they might. That's a guy I believe they can get a first round pick out of right now. With how he's been playing, I think some team that is contending would be willing to give up a future first.

[C]

It just shows you though, what you got for Kobe. White at this stage, obviously coming off an injury and as we had said before, it is not without risk that this guy's been having calf issues.

[A]

You're saying Ivy or White? White. Yeah.

[C]

You know, somebody who has already had at least one serious injury and then has also had lingering calf issues to.

[A]

Go on a team with Lamello Ball, who is also Glass.

[C]

Well, he's also not a serious basketball player. And I think now that you have. He's not the best player on that team. Now that they have Knipple, now that they have a real player.

[A]

Did you see what he and Flag did?

[C]

Yeah, yeah, I did. Of course I did.

[A]

Of course I. Yeah, Cooper Flagg is. I haven't heard much about him this season in general just because of all these rumors and the whole Giannis thing. And also I'm not that focused on the Mavericks. I'm focused on the Bulls and. And for sure I'll be focused on the Pelicans a little bit. And he's just flown under the radar, but dude's a baller. Dude is A baller. He was supposed to be in this draft class. He's supposed to be a freshman in college right now. He's supposed to be in this draft class. Imagine that.

[C]

Well, I'm waiting to see then, what the Bulls plan to do with all of this flexibility that they have right now. And I don't. I don't know if Anthony Simons is going to stick. Probably not. It looks like Ivy more so.

[A]

Oh, Ivy's going to stay.

[C]

Ivy looks to be. So apparently, as we discussed, their doctors have enough of a. An idea, enough of some kind of prognosis, looking at whatever's available to them that they think he can get that step back. Because if he can, then you've got a real player. You've got a part of this core. As of the moment, as it stands right now, your core is. Even to use that word, is giddy. It's modest. It's Ivy and IO.

[A]

Yeah. At the moment. Say core. Well, yeah, I guess if they. If they keep him, he's a top.

[C]

Six player on your team.

[A]

Right, but that doesn't necessarily mean core. Would you. Would you have included Vuch in the core beforehand?

[C]

No, but I'm saying age and timing. Right.

[A]

IO came out as a junior in 2021. He's not.

[C]

No, he's 27.

[A]

I know the sumo.

[C]

So that's the same 26.

[A]

He just turned 26.

[C]

At the same age as Simons and the same age. And how old is. Is Usman Jang?

[A]

Young. He's young.

[C]

Okay, so there's your six, nine guy I really don't know much about.

[A]

Jang is 22.

[C]

Okay. Jang is 22. All right. So that I just. I don't know much about him. He's Swiss. Correct?

[A]

French.

[C]

I thought he was French. Swiss. I might argue with you on that.

[A]

He's French.

[C]

All right. I thought he was Swiss.

[A]

I looked it up just now. Okay.

[C]

Are you sure?

[A]

I'm on Wikipedia.

[C]

All right, well, then you're right, then. All right, fine. Yes. He grew up in southwestern France and he played.

[A]

You still didn't trust me after that?

[C]

I wanted to make sure.

[A]

Oh, my goodness.

[C]

We had the right guy. Yes. And I have you thought I looked.

[A]

Up Gorgy Jang or something?

[C]

I know it's not Gorgy Jang. I just forgotten.

[A]

Forgotten 10 and 7 guy. Gorgy Jang for six years, Minnesota Timberwolves. I loved his games, and I remember him at Louisville.

[C]

USMAN Jang is 69185. Yikes.

[A]

So.

[C]

Yeah, Right. You essentially have somebody who can at least, you know, hang out With a senge.

[A]

Yeah, but he doesn't. Jang. Doesn't look like a child, though. No, he doesn't look like a child.

[C]

And he's played a lot of ball.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Because he played in, you know, professionally in France and he played in New Zealand. So he's. The guy was his 11th overall pick for. He had established himself as a prospect.

[A]

He's got a ring. So. He's got a ring. Okay, so what I'm still confused about is how did it. So Thunder. The Thunder obviously dealt him to Chicago. What? What?

[C]

No, no, the Thunder dealt him to Charlotte.

[A]

Ah, got it. Okay, I see.

[C]

This is a flip.

[A]

Oh, they dealt him to Charlotte.

[C]

For Plumlee.

[A]

For Plum. Got it. For Plumlee. And that they're gonna release Plumlee, I believe. Yeah.

[C]

That all.

[A]

I don't know, because, you know, they traded. You know, the Thunder traded for Jared McCain. Yes, that. That's what they were doing is they were clearing space for Jared McCain. Okay, I see.

[C]

I don't. I don't know, but I don't understand the Colin Sexton. I don't at all, because he's. That's. See, that's another guy who's 27. Right.

[A]

Sexton. I think Ivy. Ivy is the only one of those three that I think is that the Bulls are buying into.

[C]

And Sexton is also an expiring deal.

[A]

Let's see if. I doubt he'd be restricted as well. He's been around the block now.

[C]

No, Ivy is restricted, but that I know. So now you've got a situation where at long last, the Bulls will be way under the cap, way into the apron, and they can definitely be a catalyst in restricted free agency.

[A]

Oh, they could. They could try to lure some guys out of there.

[C]

There's no question. So as far as the. The restricted free agents that. I've seen the names that keep coming up, you've got Duran. You've got Jalen Duran, who we've loved for a long time, and it's an all star. Yeah. By the way, IO Dasumu has just been listed as questionable versus the Raptors. Came out of the Bucks game with, quote, unquote, knee soreness. But I don't. Why did Kobe White play?

[A]

Well, let's talk about this for a second. This feels like a live radio moment. You know, I. That. That might be a phantom.

[C]

Of course it might. But if you were willing to do that, you should have done it yesterday. Someone's gotta ask that. I mean, is that a mistake? Where are they gonna say, well, we didn't intend to trade him. But then that's what we asked for. And we had to make this move to get Colin Sexton and Usman Jang. Come on. I don't know that I quite get it, but the fact is that they.

[A]

Are.

[C]

The names of the people that they're looking at. They could be looking at. Let me just finish the thought about restricted free agency. You've got Duran, as I mentioned, you've got Tari Eason that they've been hot on for a while. Benedict Matheran is.

[A]

That's who I've seen a lot in talks with IO, which I again, don't understand. And why the hell would the Pacers need a player like that right now? And they suck.

[C]

And then you've got.

[A]

Although when Halliburton. They're good.

[C]

Sure. But, you know, Walker Kessler is a possibility, too. Also restricted and maybe more replaceable on a Jazz team that has to be reallocating a lot of their future money at the moment. Yeah.

[A]

So it's just. It's just a really wild, wild deadline right now, and we haven't even touched on Harden to Cleveland.

[C]

That's a panic deal for both teams. Yep, that's. I read that deal as well.

[A]

What the hell?

[C]

We might as well just. Just.

[A]

Apparently Mitchell wanted Harden.

[C]

Okay, fine.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

But you got to play a little slower. You know, he's. Harden isn't going to play a game where you're, you know, racing up and down the floor. He's not playing that. So that's a pace issue. Now, if he. And maybe he's willing, maybe Harden is just going to be able to go back to what he like in Brooklyn. I'm just trying to imagine there's been iterations of Harden where he's found ways to raise or lower certain aspects of his game. You know, push things to the forefront and things to the back burner, depending on what they want. I don't know. I don't know. That. That seemed like a panic move.

[A]

Uhhuh. I. It's all just really weird to me right now.

[C]

Why didn't you do this earlier? Like, this is all we were asking for. For two years.

[A]

Yep.

[C]

For two years. Saying this build is over. It's not going anywhere. Instead of being fooled by small sample sizes, try to position yourself to have more assets and more flexibility. And now they're kind of in between deciding to do this a minimum of a year too late. Okay.

[A]

Have at it.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Without. Without their draft pick.

[C]

Maybe there's something. There's another move in here. That's gonna net them. How do they not come up with at least a first? I thought when all was said and done, you. When the dust settles on this deadline.

[A]

Well, it hasn't yet. All right, let's. I think I know. Take a deep breath.

[C]

All right. Okay.

[A]

Take a deep breath. Did. Do I have faith in them? No, not at all.

[C]

But now I've taken another deep breath. That's not fair.

[A]

Take another deep breath then.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

It's not over yet. Let's. Let's just pray to basketball Jesus that now that the Bears season is over, the Bulls can have a cardiac Bulls trade deadline approach.

[C]

We're just at the very end.

[A]

Very end. They make some wild move to get a first round pick or something. I don't know. I don't know who they give up. I don't know why they're loading up on so many guards. I don't know what in the fuck they're doing.

[C]

Well, let's.

[A]

Let's let it. Let's just let it ride.

[C]

Yeah. They're trying to take.

[A]

But. But let's. Let's let it ride. Just let it ride. Let's not doomsfire right now.

[C]

I'm not. I'm not there. No. I actually was confident that they were.

[A]

Going to do something and I wasn't. So I'm. They surpassed my very low expectations. So I can sit here and talk to you like this and be. I don't want to say content, but relieved that they did something.

[C]

Okay. You're being kind of Zen.

[A]

I am. I promise you, I did not smoke the devil's lettuce before this.

[C]

Let me ask you this.

[A]

Yes.

[C]

Right now, as currently constructed, how many games are left? 30.

[A]

They are. What's their record? 24 and Flurb.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

They are 24 and Flirb.

[C]

Are they closer to winning a championship right now than they were 48 hours ago? Answer that. Answer that honestly.

[A]

Yeah, I think so.

[C]

I don't think that's really all that difficult.

[A]

No. I think. I think getting rid of Vuch was huge. I think that just the fact that they've really opened up a lot of money is massive. Money's money and money. And Josh Giddy is on a team friendly contract and modest bruise. Ellis is still on a rookie deal right now. Jaden Ivy I don't think is going to demand $25 million a year.

[C]

Neither would Simons if they wanted to resign him. He's making that now.

[A]

Seven right now.

[C]

Yeah, he's making it now. I don't know if he. If I don't know what he would get going forward.

[A]

So I think it's really unfair to judge everything as a whole and what they're going to do in the future when signs are pointing to the fact that they're not done yet. And K, I believe Casey also said that even after the deadline, there's still going to be figuring stuff out and doing whatever. I don't know if that's releasing guys. I don't know if that's calling up the entire G League roster. I don't know if that's buyouts for whomever, although I don't think anybody is. But it's just. It's just. Let's just let it ride.

[C]

Or they could come out right now and at 2 o' clock tomorrow, trade for Zion Williamson.

[A]

Would that get them closer to a championship?

[C]

Oh, God, I don't even know. I can't even think right if they were going to try to build around him and talk about trusting your doctors, you know, And I was also thinking about the fact that the. Their success, the what they pulled off with Lonzo ball may give them a lot of trust in their medical team.

[A]

Yeah, that's true that there have been a lot of injuries this year, but that Lonzo thing was really cool and they traded him for a dude who. He's been better than. I thought he would be considering his start to the season. Is he in that car? Okoro is pretty young.

[C]

Yeah. I mean, potentially. Sure. Because he doesn't. You always have to have guys who don't need the ball. Right. I don't know that he's a starter on a good team, but, you know, he's certainly a contributor on a good team. He's arguably, I think, probably their best individual defensive player.

[A]

Yeah, I would say so.

[C]

Which is not saying much, but if you, if you had to pick, you know, one guy, it's either.

[A]

It's either a Coro or IO IO or Patrick.

[C]

Yeah, it's not Patrick.

[A]

Patrick has some moments where you're like, how the hell did he do that?

[C]

That's his whole life, though. He's always going to have those moments.

[A]

I would love to see his name on a sham Sharania tweet in the next 24 hours.

[C]

And maybe he'd be a guy who, with a change of scenery, could find a landing spot and find people to maybe, you know, shock to the system.

[A]

I was going to say a coach to kick him in the ass about.

[C]

How hard you have to play to be because he's the Guy as, as a 6, 8 forward who can shoot 40% from 3, he'll be in the league a long, long, long time. I just, I don't trust him as a building block. No, we've seen enough. I'm, I'm done. I'm done. And it takes a lot for me to admit that I'm done.

[A]

Yeah, we'll see what happens. I think, I think he would. I think he needs a coach to kick and kick him in the nuts and say, let's go. I'm, I'm a little, I don't. I'm excited to see how Vuch works with Missoula a little bit because he's a bit of a firecracker sometimes or all the time. And so if Vuch doesn't try on defense, well, Zula ain't going to be happy.

[C]

How do you know? I mean, it's. For Vuch, it really isn't an effort issue. It's a lead foot issue that if they play anything other than drop defense, I mean, I don't, I don't really.

[A]

Know, but they have Keita back there as well if they want to run a two big lineup there. He's kind of just replacing Al Horford. That's the way I saw it though. Huh.

[C]

He can't shoot like Horford.

[A]

What is food? Shooting from three this year.

[C]

He's 35 career. Right. I think Horford's slightly above that. Maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong, but Horford has that higher release. Orford is able to get his shot.

[A]

Are you really comparing their releases that. I'm just saying that's who he's replacing this season. Vuch is 38% from 3 and last year he was 40. Okay. Like, dude, that's a, that's a real ass player right there.

[C]

Well, we know exactly what Vuch is at this stage. And the other thing about Vuch, and we should say that he, his six years, the number of minutes that he played, He's a trooper. Yeah. The availability, just the fact that he was always there. Always, always there, you know, And Casey Johnson was just saying, he was telling us this morning that even when they, he, he wouldn't sit for a rest in a four games in five nights, he wouldn't sit without a fight that he desperately wanted to play and tried to lobby to play even though they wanted him to sit. And that's got a lot, that's worth a lot in the NBA now, having somebody with his pedigree that's, that's just willing to Always go for you every night is. Is something and there I promise you for Boston there will be at least one playoff game that he, he is a major contributor in a victory.

[A]

You think?

[C]

Yep. At least one. At least one. They'll say that was. That was the game. We're really glad we traded.

[A]

I can I see him fitting well there's. Because he's not going to be asked to do too much. He's going to be asked to space the floor, get some rebounds and if you need a bucket in the post, a little pick and roll action or even just a back down if you're. If you haven't made a few shots in a row, he can, he can do that for you. When, when you have players like Jalen Brown who's had a ridiculous season up to this point, Peyton Pritchard, Sam Houser, Keda, help me out here.

[C]

Do you have Derek White?

[A]

Derek. Thank you God. Derrick White Tatum next season unless he comes back during the playoffs, you know, so he's not going to be asked to do a lot and it's it good for him. I'm happy for him. He deserves it. As much as we, as much as we are annoyed by him as Bulls fans.

[C]

It's a good player. Yeah, he's a good player. I would also like to know.

[A]

I'm so excited to not have to watch him on defense.

[C]

I would like to know the conversations that occurred internally. We've always operated with the sense that this idea of the Bulls as dinner theater with the Bulls as medieval times, that it was always about being good enough to entertain, being competitive enough to keep the people coming in and keep everything entertained. I wonder at what point that AK had to go to Michael Reinsdorf and say people are gonna have to sit through this might be a two year tank.

[A]

Could be Utah is expected to wave Lonzo ball. So is that it for him?

[C]

Well, I don't want him back here.

[A]

I know. I'm just.

[C]

It probably is it. I mean we thought might be that when we saw what he was when he came back we celebrated the fact that he was able to return and then we knew that that was probably just not somebody was going to stick around. Like if people didn't know that that was Lonzo Ball, if it was just. If they were just watching a tryout, it wouldn't even be a guy. It would be kind of say well that guy's playing sort of oddly. What. And I would be surprised looking at with every season's influx of new springy talent that keeps coming into this league. It would surprise me if he wanted to do that work because he's not going to go play in the G.

[A]

League, nor should he. Nor should he risk anything in the G League. He's made money.

[C]

Yeah. And it's probably more important that he's able to live a normal, off court, orthopedic existence. I guess at this point it's just amazing how. How little the Bulls got because so much kind of died on the vine.

[A]

What I will say, though. What I will say is already during this deadline, they are a much better defensive team.

[C]

Well, that wasn't hard.

[A]

No, but they are. And Herder isn't a bad defender, but he's not great. And if they keep Simons, he's really committed to play defense. He got better Boston this year. He got. He got better. I don't know how much of that is Missoula, but he got better Ivy so quick, man. He if. Okay. They had to make that trade knowing the risk with Ivy and they had to. The doctors had to okay it and say we think he's good. So I'm going to trust it right now. I'm going to trust it until I can't.

[C]

I would just. It would be very interesting to know how AK sold this to his boss. He must have job security. Just Michael. Yeah. For him. After all this. After it's been six years and now they're rebuilding, now they realize. Well, this. They finally realized that the Demar and Zach thing, it was that waste.

[A]

It was a waste of six years.

[C]

Well, they had that one half of.

[A]

One year and then Lonzo got hurt and that was it.

[C]

2022. They had one half of one year. That was really fun. And we started.

[A]

That was so fun.

[C]

Yep. Yep.

[A]

That was awesome.

[C]

We started to think that. Wait a second. But that's really the. This all peaked in a. And it was so delicately constructed, needing not just Lonzo ball. But again, that's. That's what started. They needed pattern of no rim protection and no rim runner. That because of the commitment to Vucc, they never, ever in six years. Like if they were to make a move for Yves Mecy, they've never had that guy that other teams have two of and they still don't have that.

[A]

Or even if it's just a minor trade, even if they even. I'm going to mention his name again. If they. Carlo Mactovic. If the pelicans are willing to let him go for a bag of chips.

[C]

You are not giving up on Carlo Mockovic.

[A]

And I never will.

[C]

Okay. You see him a lot?

[A]

I see him a lot. He. He's a good rim protector. He runs really well and he can fly. You don't expect it because he's just this European dude with a. With a beard and coat and slick back hair. What? I didn't hear you.

[C]

I was surprised that. That Goga Bataze didn't move in this deadline or hasn't yet.

[A]

That's not the type of guy the Bulls need though. That he's slow as well. He's just huge.

[C]

Yeah, I know, but that's like those. Those. He's like a. Like J. Huff, except he looks like Jesus.

[A]

Dude. Jay Huff is. I like J. Huff. All those reverse dunks.

[C]

Yes. Well, he's had a career against the Bulls alone. He should just want to play the Bulls all the time.

[A]

Yeah. We were saying last week, don't sleep on the Pacers and. Yep. That's. That's what you're going to get.

[C]

So three of their 12 wins are against the Bulls, whatever it is.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah, I think so. I. I hope that you're right, that we are just. Just waiting on something else that is going to make some of this. Make a little bit more sense. But I. I'm not sure. I am not sure. I think that they. If they trade IO just because that wouldn't make sense. But you. But you're right if you are. If your goal is now, you've got to get a first rounder somewhere. Maybe a first rounder in next year's draft. IO is your only way to do that.

[A]

Oh, if you package them with another guy, maybe.

[C]

Either way, these deals are made around the one person that you wanted. When you say packaging, you can't add up. You can't just add up, guys. Well, again, it's going to come down to salaries, but boy, now they've. They have such. They got nothing committed to next year. I don't even know his. Has his spot rack kept up with everything.

[A]

Oh, of course it has. Yeah. That's what I've been looking at this whole time for contract info.

[C]

Okay. I'm just making sure because you start looking at what. What the cleared decks actually look like.

[A]

They have a clean slate next year. That's amazing and giddy. Except for Gideon, Modest and Patrick and whatever they have, they have. They have a lot of room to mess around next season.

[C]

Well, that's also room to make mistakes. That's also room to get impatient. That's also room to say, hey, we didn't get number one or number two.

[A]

At Least it's change. At least it's change.

[C]

That's true. But we can't over celebrate the fact that it's something. And I don't want to over celebrate it because if you're keeping this regime around, if this. Are they going to be here 10 years? How long are you going to give them? How long, how long is AK going to get without producing anything here? This has got to be his last build, right? Yeah, it has to be. If he's allowed to tear this down and see through another rebuild. If you're not seeing signs a couple of years in here, if there isn't a better articulation of the plan. Right. And that's what we got to hear.

[A]

And I think part of it is he would have to really get lucky with Modest. I think Modest. I think Modest could make or break his job. If we're saying that this is his last rebuild. If Modest isn't an all star or a 23 and 8 guy, someone that is really, a really, really, really great contributor in a, in a high level starter, I think you could kiss AK.

[C]

Goodbye after a couple weeks. He better be a poor man's flag.

[A]

Better be. At the least.

[C]

At the very, very least, that's what he should be. Yeah, I am.

[A]

Scuba flags are better than he is. Have you seen his numbers this year?

[C]

Are you kidding? I'm looking at the, the 26, 20 bulls on spot rack as it stands. Yeah, but that you've got. I don't. This is 20. No, it's 25, 26. It hasn't even. Spot rack is slow because everybody's all over it right now. Because at the moment, as of, as of today, guess who the biggest cap hit is on the current Chicago Bulls?

[A]

Anthony Simons.

[C]

Yes, it's simons at nearly 28. And then it's Giddy. Then you got Sexton, Zach Collins and his futures up in the air because we don't know how bad this toe injury. We don't know what that's going to have.

[A]

Patrick in there.

[C]

No, Patrick's only at 19.

[A]

Yeah, but isn't Sexton at 17?

[C]

All right, here I have next year's. Now here's. They have eight players under contract for 26, 27.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

This is amazing as, as it stands at the moment.

[A]

Giddy.

[C]

You've got giddy. Patrick Okoro at 11, Jalen Smith. Jalen Smith is only 26. He's at nine, nine milli. Nine four. Yeah. Trey Jones at eight, Modest at five, seven, a Sengay at five, seven and then Julian Phillips at a conditional but there are cap holds for 26, 27. And Anthony Simons has an enormous cap hold of 41 million. Jaden Ivy's cap hold is 30. Colin Sexton's is 28. So these are.

[A]

If they don't want to hold that cabin, just make them unrestricted free agents. The thing that they would have to do for Ivy is they would just have to hold on to that $30 million and you would still be restricted because if they renounce his rights then you know.

[C]

Right. Well that would change with, with however they would structure the new deal that.

[A]

They would either have to. They would either have to renounce their rights or hold their cap. That's just the way it is. But as of 2016, also make those decisions in free agency. So youo never really know. Right.

[C]

And it's.

[A]

I only know all of this stuff because I've done way too many NBA.

[C]

2K re no, but that's why you're here, man. Because that's. I understand that there are but they have to have figured some of this stuff out and they would have, they would have to be looking at raiding some of these restricted free agent possibilities for next year.

[A]

I will say this. I don't think AK is bad at valuating contracts. You look at what I know, the Patrick contract, you know, it's a little much but 19 million for a, for a guy who's going to shoot 40, he can't play. He can't.

[C]

Come on.

[A]

But okay, fine. Whiffed on that one. That giddy contract.

[C]

The giddy contracts win right now the giddy could and that is, that's helping him. Whatever they do right now, if you.

[A]

Have million 8 million for Trey Jones, 11 million for a Coral he didn't do the accoro contract but 9 million for Jalen Smith with the way he's been playing, he's been playing like an $18 million a year player. Yeah. Recently.

[C]

So I'm just concerned that something that happens in the next 24 hours or 22 hours, next 10 minutes is going to obviate this. Oh yeah. I'm counting for the next 10 minutes amid the night. But either way my headline on this is it a rebuild is great. It just. Why didn't you do this earlier? Why aren't some of these second round picks first round picks? Why didn't you jump up into last year's draft instead of this year's draft? Granted, if you end up top four in this year's draft and you're talking about boozer or Peterson or Debons. That and whoever. Who's the fourth guy is debatable. Whoever you're looking at for that. But there is. I mean, you know, I would love any of those three.

[A]

Mm.

[C]

But I'm not counting on it. And I don't know how much knowing the Bulls, they'll surprise us by coming together and winning games with guys who aren't going to be here next year because Billy will coach him up and get him out there trying against a bunch of other confused teams. I know, I know, I know. But there. I can't believe Kobe White. I can't believe you traded a guy who played last night. I can't believe that. How did that happen?

[A]

It's really.

[C]

That's really, really stupid. Well, it. Let's say, got away with.

[A]

Let's see. Let's see if IO plays tonight.

[C]

They got away with it.

[A]

All right, let's.

[C]

Let's. Let's do the showdown before we have to redo this whole show anyway. Hey, hey, hey.

[A]

All right.

[C]

You go first.

[A]

Okay. Mine's very simple.

[C]

Is it?

[A]

Yes, but I'm too busy listening to music. I know.

[C]

You're too entertained.

[A]

Who is the Chicago Bulls leader in bench points since the 2019. 2020 season?

[C]

The Chicago Bulls leader in total bench scoring since 2019?

[A]

2020?

[C]

I don't even know where to begin. I'm trying to think.

[A]

I feel like. I feel like the question was so simple that you're just like, wait, what?

[C]

Yeah, that's sort of where I am.

[A]

I overwhelmed you and underwhelmed you at the same time.

[C]

All right, The. Hmm?

[A]

Are you serious right now that you're, like, you're panicking?

[C]

I'm just. Is it IO.

[A]

Nope.

[C]

It's not.

[A]

No, it is not.

[C]

Is this a trick question somewhere? Not at all. Are you sure?

[A]

Yeah. It's not a trick. There's an answer.

[C]

All right. I thought maybe you had tricked me somehow into something here. Is it. I'm trying to think somebody who may have come off the bench, who then did. Is it somebody who's also started? Mm. Is it Kobe?

[A]

It is Kobe White.

[C]

Okay. Okay.

[A]

Kobe White. Yep. I thought you were gonna say Patrick.

[C]

But no, he didn't score enough. No. Okay. So, yeah. All right, then I get.

[A]

Yeah. I wanted to keep it simple this time.

[C]

I got it.

[A]

Yeah, you got it. Yay. All right. You go.

[C]

I go. Hold on. I got to find it. I have it. I promise you. No, I hear. Okay, here it is. There have been. There are four players since 2020. Three who have at least 14 games of five or more blocked shots. You've got one overall leader who has three times number one. Wemidyama's number one. Wemidyama. Guess how many five block games he has in his career. 43. He's got 43.

[A]

I said that expecting like it was going to be 30. I just.

[C]

I wanted to get a reaction. Thought it was wrong, but it's. He has. Victor wembanyama already has 43. My favorite monk 5 block games. Yes. Your favorite. Where was it in Thailand?

[A]

I don't know. But people are calling him Victor Monkmanyama.

[C]

Or whatever people are calling. People are saying your favorite. All right, now, who are the three other players? There's two guys with 15 and one with 14 who have had that many five block games.

[A]

Who? Holmgren.

[C]

No.

[A]

Okay. Giannis?

[C]

No.

[A]

Recently traded. Jaren Jackson Jr.

[C]

Recently traded. New.

[A]

Screw you. Brooke Lopez.

[C]

No.

[A]

Trying to think of just wild shot blockers. Guys that block shots a lot.

[C]

Yeah. A couple of these names surprised me. Or when they do it, they do it in. In big spurts. In bulk. Yeah.

[A]

What, like Porzingis? No. Capella?

[C]

Nope.

[A]

You said since 2023?

[C]

15. 15 and 14.

[A]

15 for these. 43. That's like a LeBron stat type thing. Yeah. It's not Jokic.

[C]

It is. No. No. It's not Jokic.

[A]

Gafford?

[C]

Nope.

[A]

David Anthony Davis.

[C]

Anthony Davis has 14.

[A]

Okay. And.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

I just didn't know if he played enough games because he's always hurt. So that's why I was a bit hesitant.

[C]

Oh.

[A]

Go Bear. Right?

[C]

No.

[A]

Wow.

[C]

Good guess.

[A]

Oh. I thought that was a shoe in.

[C]

So. Of course you did.

[A]

Did you think so when you first saw the question?

[C]

Yes. Yes. I thought there was a mistake. Gobert was not on there.

[A]

It's not gonna be Harmony Stein.

[C]

I wonder how many Jay Huff has had this year.

[A]

It's not gonna be Hartenstein.

[C]

It's not Hartenstein.

[A]

Khalil Ware is too young. I know Modest had five blocks the other night, but he hasn't had 14 of them. Derek Lively.

[C]

No. Not a terrible guess. These guys you're talking to really good players. One's name was already mentioned on the show today.

[A]

Great. Now I have to that that might screw me up. I think just because I'll try too hard to think about.

[C]

You have to do that. Just think about one guy's also had some injury issues.

[A]

Not me. See? Is it?

[C]

It's not. It's not. It's not.

[A]

Definitely not. Carlo Matkovic.

[C]

No. People find Someone in your life who loves you as much as Jason Bernstein loves Carlo Matkovic.

[A]

Yes. Oh, Duran.

[C]

Oh, no.

[A]

Oh, I. Damn it.

[C]

Same part of the discussion, though.

[A]

Oh. Restricted free agent talk. Mm. Guys that are.

[C]

Somebody the Bulls could target for next year.

[A]

Kessler.

[C]

Yep. Walker Kessler is one of those with. And the. The other one.

[A]

I'll try. I'll try. I must. I must. Claxton.

[C]

Nope.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

This guy is famous for. Famous. But he's got a fascinating hobby. It was. It has been discussed before.

[A]

I think I have it. I could be wrong. Some. Miles Turner and his Legos.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

Bang.

[C]

Yes. Miles Turner also has 15 games of five or more blocks.

[A]

There you go.

[C]

Wembanyama. Kessler, Turner and Davis. And, yes, Wemby has 43. Yeah, I know. And Miles Turner is known for constructing complicated Lego sets.

[A]

But Wemby has also been hurt multiple times. Times. Yeah.

[C]

He missed, like, half his season, and he already.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Yes. But remember, is, like, a lot of his blocks, he's just there.

[A]

Yeah. But there are a couple where he's not there. And he takes one step, and he's there.

[C]

I know.

[A]

From the free throw line. Yep.

[C]

All right, let's wrap it, because I. It's.

[A]

We.

[C]

We may have to pop on tomorrow if. If the Bulls.

[A]

If the Bulls make a crazy trade. We. We very much might have to do another emergency one, which means you get three straight days of us.

[C]

Nobody wants to think. I'm sorry. And by the way, thank you for. I went into the garage and I went through the bag with all of your old jerseys in it. I had to find something. It didn't say Bernstein on the back. I wore this to the Blackhawks game. Mom. And I went to the Hawks game. I know you guys on Monday night for Pride night. And I wanted to wear a hockey jersey. And this fits me perfectly.

[A]

Why didn't. Oh, that's why you didn't wear your jersey that said Bernstein on it.

[C]

I don't want my name in the back. Someone's gonna come up and hit me over the head with a thing of nachos. I don't want.

[A]

Did anybody come up to you at the Hawks game?

[C]

No. One guy was walking and one guy. Yeah, several people did, but they just recognized me because they knew what I looked like. One guy from across the concourse yelled, river Dogs, So I just gave him the fist in the. But he was a big River Dogs fan, I guess.

[A]

All right, all right, all right.

[C]

Get back to your work. Go write your piece for your paper.

[A]

I'm already done with it.

[C]

Oh well, how can you be. Because there's.

[A]

Because I'm gonna, I'm going to keep updating it as, as things go on.

[C]

Oh, on the website. Uh huh.

[A]

Like I can go back and edit.

[C]

Oh good.

[A]

And change. And so I just have right now where I discuss some of the trades. I didn't even talk about the hardened one because I really just don't give a shit about it.

[C]

And by the way, the Washington Post sucks. And for, for them to do what they did today is. It hurts the heart of any journalist. I don't know if you had been talking about that in any journalism classes or at the Hullabaloo or if the Hullabaloo has issued any kind of statement about it, but what Jeff Bezos did to the Washington Post today was, was a borderline criminal. How, how many layoffs did they fired? The entire sports department and people who are working in Ukraine, in a war zone, working without power, working without heat, were told you no longer work for the Washington Post, you're fired. And we're left just in the middle of Kyiv and in the middle of other countries. International reporters just let go immediately. Only so billionaires can not have people know what they're trying to do to unravel society for their own gain. So it sucks. And I didn't want to go today without saying that. I'll say more tomorrow, but that has been. Organizations win championships Episode 130 Organizations win championships a Chicago Bulls podcast with Jason.

[A]

And Dan Bernstein on 312 Sports.