C (3:59)

I'm having an old friend for Thanksgiving dinner. I'm good. Good to be with you, good to be had. Good to be anywhere when you're me. Like Keith Richards used to say, I'm all right, man.

A (4:11)

I'm.

C (4:12)

I'm enjoying the NFL these last few weekends. After kind of hibernating for much of the first two months of the season. Not out of protest, just in the middle of a move, I relocated to Mesa temporarily early this season. And I kind of lost track of everything that I'd known for many years. I'm not playing fantasy football this year for the first time probably since I played initially in 93 or 94. I don't gamble on college or pro football. It's my understanding the Indiana Hoosiers may win a national championship. I kind of don't believe that. That's what I hear. And I see that Caleb Williams might be knocking on the door of Kramer's single season records. Maybe. Maybe.

B (5:06)

Well, how does that make you feel with this Bears gasm that's going on right now? And unlikely. And I think we can all agree it's an unlikely eight and three People get their dander up if you talk about the good fortune of the quarterbacks that they've faced at this point. But I think reasonable observers know that for a team that is still kind of underwater in the point differential that they're. They're in a great position and they're putting away the teams that are on their schedule. They don't have to apologize for it, but it looks like they're a playoff team.

C (5:40)

Yeah, they probably are going to make the playoffs. You know, they were the first NFC team to qualify as a seven seed a few years ago when the NFL added that seventh playoff team. And right now they're atop the division. So maybe they won't be the seventh seed, but I still think Detroit and the packers are a hell of a lot better than Chicago is. I still think the Bears are incredibly vulnerable defensively. And I know they had a lot of substitutes yesterday in the win over the Steelers. Excuse me, Sunday. But, yeah, I'm not buying it. I will believe it when they win a playoff game. Always a cynic when it comes to Chicago Bears football in the months of December and January. So bring on Dallas.

A (6:30)

You know, Mac, it's so. It's so good to see you, pal. So thanks for taking time out of your schedule to. To visit with us on this special holiday treat for all of our listeners. You're looking great, pal. You sound great. I know you said that you kind of took some time off from watching sports. What. What's going on? What's going on in your. In your life that you're filling up your. Your hours with? If you're not playing fantasy, you're not watching college, you're not. You're not betting on things. You're not watching the NFL as much.

C (6:57)

I relocated to Mesa to be with my little brother, who really is my oldest son in many ways. My brother was diagnosed seven or eight years ago with cirrhosis, or as he called it, mild cirrhosis. Boy, there's an addict's response, isn't it, Dan? It's mild cirrhosis. Okay. She's mildly pregnant, too. It's gotten worse. He has stage four liver cancer. It's inoperable. He doesn't want to transplant. He doesn't want to do chemotherapy because it's only a palliative treatment. So I came here to take him to the 18th green to put out, which probably will be within 18 months, maybe sooner. He's not changed his lifestyle very much. I don't judge him for it, if that's what he wants to do. I. I don't enjoy watching it, necessarily, but that's his call. So. We are having Thanksgiving dinner today at the condo here off of Route 60. Did you know Mesa is the 37th most populous city in America. That's a lot of people. How'd you like to have more denizens than Minneapolis or Pittsburgh, for example? Yeah, it's a big time. So that's why I'm out here. I'm out here to take care of my little brother. And the timing is good because I needed a reboot anyway because radios as Spiegel and I used to say radio's big pile of ex wives got bigger this fall. I'm done with number two. So being a free agent at 64 is quite interesting and, and quite rewarding, surprisingly, to my. Much to my shock.

B (8:42)

How so?

C (8:44)

You know what? I didn't really think I had much of a desire after the last four or five years of a loveless marriage to. To walk in those waters again. But I do kind of rediscovered. I don't know if I'd call it now Doug. Doug Buffon would call it the Neanderthal gene. I just kind of rediscovered that I still have some jump left in my. In my step. Still have some of that this past August and we'll see where that goes. But anyway, not exactly an uplifting conversation so far.

A (9:27)

Yeah, I know. I. I appreciate you sharing that and really, really sorry about your bro. You know, I lost my oldest brother going on almost eight years now, and it happened unexpectedly, you know, and if I could go back and have even one extra day just to. Just to talk to him and say things to him and just to be with him, I would do that. So I really appreciate the fact that you're out there with your brother through what I can't even imagine how difficult it is for you. But to have that time together has got to be very special for you as well, though.

C (10:01)

Yeah, it is. You know, it's difficult on him because he's the one who's suffering physically and he's the one who has to, you know, know that the finish line is. Is not that far away. It's much tougher on him than it is me. A lot of people say it's, you know, really courageous of you and it's. It's just. It's just what you do when you're needed and it's not unfamiliar territory for me. Our mother was not available because of her myriad mental illnesses. So I've been in many ways a caretaker for Mike since he was an infant and he lived with me. I never talked much about this. I don't even know if you guys are aware. When I was producing copic show on the Loop, carving the Dangerous Dan Brand, my Brother lived with me. I was making 215 a year and he was a sophomore in high school and he lived with me in a little studio apartment in South Hammond because my dad, on marriage number two, didn't have the nuts to stand up to a very, a very aggressive stance. After Mike had an alcohol issue as a high school student, even though he was playing two sports and he was a good student. So he lived with me and my father and I were estranged for several years after that. But I've been taking care of him for a long time and I'll continue to do it.

B (11:32)

I didn't know that was part of the reason or the primary reason for the estrangement. I just. This is, it's really interesting that the remarkable sort of emotional maturity that it takes to do a lot of what you're doing right now. And as somebody who's known you for a long time through a lot of your, your personal evolution, Danny, it's something that we've talked about in this space since we got started relatively recently about the mental health crisis that I recently went through, which is why I'm here and have talked about it openly about what I've learned and what I've had to break down as far as accepting and understanding the value of therapy and the value of therapeutic drugs and what works and how long it takes to figure out sometimes what exactly works, whether it's from the medicinal perspective or the therapeutic perspective and to see what you're dealing with at this point, not to mention having an actual special needs son and the amount of time and the amount of mental bandwidth that you've devoted to that. I know this is going to sound weird and sappy and I don't, I'm not entitled to be proud of you, I don't think, but to the extent that I'm allowed to, I'm impressed. I'm impressed with you. I'm impressed with your, the, your wisdom and your maturity having gone through what you've gone through.

C (13:08)

Thank you. It's unfortunate you have to get banged around so many times to wake up, but if that's what it takes, that's the way it goes. Mike and I both have had our share of, of work hiccups along the way, but thanks that that means a lot. It's, you know, it's not something that happens without a lot of work and a lot of thought and putting a lot of trust in my life coach, Dr. Larry, who kind of reentered my life three summers ago. And yeah, it's, it's a process and it's not going to be easy when it gets worse with Mike, I know that he's still working full time, but that probably will change before, I would guess before spring, who knows? We're not putting a timetable but you're.

B (14:05)

Confronting so much like the fact that you have to starkly look at so many things that can cause a self reflection. And for you to say maybe not just there but for the grace of God go I but to look at. And I remember when you went on the air when you were having problems with your own, with substances and you sat there on a hot mic in front of the city of Chicago and said I am an addict. And I remember it vividly. I remember where I was when I was listening to it and hearing you do that. So it isn't just the fact that you're taking care of others and you're spending so much time taking care of others, it's how much of that you must be feeling internally that you must be sharing just unimaginable pain.

C (15:01)

Yeah, well, you know there, there's nothing and I, I hate to, to, you know, like as we do with sports when we put labels on things as the greatest this or the toughest time with that in our lives, you know, I think we sometimes do that as well. This pales in comparison to Patrick's early days when Patrick was self mutilating. You know, you want to, you want to be driven to your needs. When your child doesn't have the neurological wiring to make speech and he knows the words but can't get them from the brain to the lips and he starts hitting his head on a ceramic tile floor in anger at the age of three while big brother just slumped in his chair and began to weep. That was right around the time our mutual friend Gene Seymour passed. Those were within days of each other. And yeah, I don't, I don't think this can, can touch that fall of 96, which was probably the darkest period of my life. And this is, you know, this is finding a new use for myself. This is something I was told this past summer is that I tend to have a pretty decent way of expressing myself when others are suffering. And you were given credit for this too when you and I both attended the wake of Terry's daughter in law a few years ago. What, what Joe told his family members after the wake was oddly, the two Dans had the most meaningful things to say about, about Terry's role in, in their life and about what, what their challenges would be and if, if that's some way for me to, to use words to move people. It's obviously a much smaller audience. It's a club show, but it gives me some satisfaction to make people feel better. You got to be of use. And if that's, if that's where I go professionally, I've considered getting some training in grief counseling. Get certified maybe. Yeah, I've considered it. Don't have the time on my plate just yet. I will soon. Still getting my footing here, but yeah, that's something I'm considering.

A (17:35)

You know, it's got to be of the use, man.

C (17:37)

You have to find a purpose. And for the last few years I haven't really had that. So with tragedy, I now have purpose.

A (17:47)

You said a few minutes ago that, that taking care of Mike is just, it's, it's what you do. That's what you said. And I just want to kind of piggyback what Dan said. That's not what everyone would do though, Max. So, you know, I'm really, I'm really happy that you have this time with your brother that you've made, made that choice to go and to help and to take care, to continue to take care of him, I should say, because that's not something everyone would, would do even, even for family members. And so that's, it's a special thing you have. And I'm really happy that you're there with Mike to be with him through, through what, what he's dealing with right now. And it's, it's just, it's great to hear you talk from such a great depth of you because, you know, I'm not sure people, you know, listening to you for so many decades knew and thought they knew you as a friend. But you know, I got to know you a little, little on a personal level through our times together working on imposing radio stations. And one thing I wish, you know, looking back at my 17 year radio career, is that I did get a chance to work with you. I wish we had, you know, and I'll look back at that, my first go around in radio and say, man, I wish, you know, I'd been able to work with Mac. And we tried, we tried to do a pal and I would have loved to had a working relationship with you. More than just our friendship that we developed and shared over working on opposing stations.

C (19:11)

Yeah, Abaticola and I, Dan, were auditioning for the Loop job before man cow got it the last time through in the winter of 2015 while I also was working with Craig Salk at At the drive to get a morning position. We were auditioning with Wade Linder, the PD at Cumulus owned WLUP at the time. And it was gonna be exciting. Me and ma and Jill Hipcheck doing trash. Yeah, we were. We actually got up on a Saturday morning and went to the studio and did four hours. They said, we'll do as many audition shows for you as you'd like off the air, but we're not doing it on the air. They wanted to do some live auditions on the air and said, I'm not there yet. Now I'll do as many as you want. But it didn't go anywhere. But that was fun. And we did. We did have our share of fun. But yeah, we probably should have done some more shows together. Hell, there's a lot of people I would have liked to have collaborated with a little bit more than I did, like who I missed out on nationally. I wish I would have done more things with Boomer Esiason. I think there's. There's no jock who's made the transfer to hosting a show. Who's. To me now you got two guys born in 1961. So this clearly wouldn't play today, but 20 years ago, I think Boomer and I would have done some really cool things. We hit it off right away when we met in an elevator in Indianapolis. Oddly enough, he enjoyed a shot I took at our colleague Dan Jiggots enormously because he'd known jig it's for a long time. It was a playful shot, but a shot nonetheless. And I think I dropped the ball with Rick, telling her, Rick is a very interesting guy who was not a driver and he, at several outlets was put in a position where he was expected to drive the bus. And that's not what he would do best. It put a lot of stress on him that he didn't need. I should have partnered more with him. I'm not saying necessarily full time, but I wish I would have done more shows with Rick.

B (21:29)

While we're talking about the industry, I had my first ever opportunity for perspective was thrust upon me and as I have mentioned many times, it is my fault that I earned and am fully aware of that. I blame no one else for my firing but myself. And it gave me a chance to decide how much I wanted to consume sports radio and sports broadcasting in general. And the answer was not much. I loved getting away from it. I loved it. I spent a whole summer listening to yacht rock and jazz and classical music and some hip hop stuff that I hadn't heard before, and it was great. And I knew when I was hungry for it. I knew when it's like, you know, I'm getting back into sports a little bit. I didn't think it would come at me quite as hard as it did to the fact where I'm really liking. I didn't realize how much I stopped liking sports and now am really liking it again. Watching games I don't have to watch, just going like, oh, college football game. This might be fun. And it's really refreshing. And then realizing that I wanted to kind of start doing it again now that I'm also listening. There's a lot of bad out there, man. There is. And if you think. If people. You think this is bad, too, fine, whatever. Go ahead, Take your shots. Take your shots. But I'm wondering if it's just my perspective or on whether it's national, whether it's local. The quality of content doesn't seem to be as important as much as just whether it's filling time or moving meters or cheerleading. A lot of cheerleading out there in general, that is. I don't know if it's driven by the teams or what's going on. Am I. Am I wrong? But. Or has everything. Is this just old guy yelling at cloud, or is the overall quality of content kind of mid?

C (23:34)

I think you hear a lot of guys who are 50 plus say similar things. It's not as fraternity house as it used to be. I don't know. I'd have to hear you, you know, elaborate more specifically on what you mean by a lot of bad out there. You suggested cheerleading. What else is. Is. Is it the personalities? Is. Is it. Is it the production? Be more specific. You're unfiltered. Don't do filtered. Do unfiltered. Let Bachman Turner overdrive. Do not fragile. Because. Yes, did fragile.

A (24:13)

It's personality, Dan, Because I think a lot of it is. Here's what works for now. Let's check the box, and let's meet the needs that are there instead of letting someone be who they are. Naturally.

B (24:26)

I don't. I want to just. Generally, there aren't. Other than the designated screamers, other than the people who are where the algorithm has decided you are. The say whatever you think guy and get people angry guy. I was just used to a little bit more edge rather than softening things a little bit. A little less celebration and a little less fandom. I think more so maybe it's. To me, I think things are less newspapery than they used to be. And there was a sense back when, you know, pre Internet, when newspaper coverage drove everything. There was a sense of the old fashioned editors with sleeves rolled up and half a Marlboro going and a styrofoam cup of coffee and the old Chicago newsroom, if your mother says she loves you, check it out. Get a second source. And understanding the teams lie. Teams lie a lot. And it's, it's that we should always be striving to find out what's real rather than just reading off press releases. And I don't know that there's been a general softening of that or it's, it's not what the algorithm wants anymore. And I could be wrong, but it's just something to be like, where's. Where everybody comes to her every day and saying, what don't they want us to know? What don't they want us to say? What don't they want us to tell you about?

C (26:04)

Yeah. And to piggyback that, the homogenization of what you get out of House hall is, gosh, for how many years now, there's, there's almost nobody who seems to get anything different. It's whatever the Bears serve up at the podium, on the podium, at the lectern. Thank you. That's what everybody gets everywhere. There's, there's very little relationship building and that's been going on for some time. I don't think guys work it as hard as they used to. But whatever you and I say, we're going to sound like bitter, wistful old. And I am not that because I don't desire the head for headphones. I'm not qualified. Let me break into Brian billick, Super Bowl 35. You're not qualified. I'm not. I don't watch enough. I don't give a. To watch enough. Do you know this is serious? And I know I'm getting off point, but this past summer, I didn't know what Pete Crowe Armstrong looked like until the night before the All Star Game. I'd seen him on Highlights, walking through a room. I'd heard his name. You can't help if you live in the world to consume some of the big points. But I didn't know what he looked like in the face until the Home Run Derby the night before. And I felt good about that. I feel good not knowing who's coaching the first place New England Patriots this year. I don't know who's their fucking quarterback. They got rid of Mac Jones two years ago, Right. I love not knowing these things. And yet, when I punch in like you, I hear enough bad to look at the person sitting in the truck next to me, whether it's a buddy or Patrick who demands hearing sports talk. And that's what drives me nuts, because he picks up on more language he understands than in news talk or in music. And I said, I can do better than this clown or that clown or all these clowns. But I only would want to do it for a very short period of time. I mean, I've taken my last job job that I'm gonna quit in six weeks because I hate it. My. My. My most recent ex wife was pissed at me two years ago. I didn't. Or this past off season when I didn't apply for the White Sox pre and post job, I said, sherry, I had that job. I was 27. It was the Bulls flagship on AM1000 at the time. But I've been there, done that. You couldn't catch me near the White Sox roster for long enough to do that job because I was trying to pitch for one of my guys to get it. And the content director at ESPN 1000 didn't return any of my correspondences, so I didn't do him any favors, probably by pitching for him. But I don't want those jobs. Who, you know, if it's not football or guy talk like we've done here, I'm not interested. No, I just. I'm not interested.

A (29:10)

Sports, it was such a big part of your life for so long. I mean, for decades, talking about it, and people like wanting to hear what you had to say. And you say now that you're happy, like, why. Why are you so happy to not have that as part of your life? And now look, looking back on those decades, too, is there. Is there. Do you ever look back and say, God, I wish I'd done something different with my skills and my talents that I had. And maybe not just invest it in sports.

C (29:34)

You know, you spend all your days wishing you would have done it. Boy, more than. More than a lot of guys, I would consume a lot of time doing the. I could have done this or should have done that. I, you know, when I left the station in 2014, which prompted a fabulous Bernstein insult, I got back from my trip to Canada and I resigned. I had resigned right after the Hawks were knocked out in the Western Conference finals by the Kings and Seven Spiegel. And I did the show the next day at Seven Bridges for the Turning Point Autism foundation. And I resigned, and I gave everybody on the staff a going Away gift. I gave Spiegel something with Ditka on it. Gave everybody on the. And Mitchell was insistent that he was going to get me back. And he suggested that I think Max just leveraging it. He wants to just fish this summer. I wanted. No, I didn't want to. Just. I was looking for something new to do. And I got back from Canada and someone said, hey, did you hear Bernstein shot at you the other day? And I said, well, what did he say? And he said, well, Marshawn lynch is holding out with the Seahawks. And Bernstein said, maybe he should just go muskie fishing for a couple weeks and he'll feel better. I said, that's the Bernstein people line up for. That is a good joke. And the funny thing is, you know, they started another round of negotiations and Rod Zimmerman, Rod Zilla called me into the big bar at the Hyatt and, you know, he upped the ante. But I said, I, it's not the money. I just don't want to do this anymore. I just don't. And I didn't. I waited until the drive thing happened, and then when that blew up because Hubbard fired Greg Salk, which was my in. I mean, I'd still be doing that show if Greg were still empowered at hubbard radio. Pete McMurray and I, well, Kathy Voltmore and I'd be doing afternoons. I wanted to partner with Kathy so bad. And afternoon drive. I loved her so much. Was she fun to work with? We wanted to do some. Yeah, yeah. I don't want to get off on a tangent. It doesn't matter what we want. It's long, long removed. But that would have been fun. I came back in 18 because I needed to scratch. I deluded myself when Jimmy de Castro was empowered to thinking, I can do this again. Parkins makes it fun for me. I love that little Doobie smoking, gambling fool. He's fun to work with. The station I. I thought was at a very, you know, it was injured terribly at the time. I will never forget that transition with Bernstein, McKnight, Parkins and me when we were just. I looked around the room before we tried to plow through 15 minutes, and I saw four guys who didn't know what end was up. And I didn't have a voice. I paralyzed my vocal. Vocal cord on opening day. That was fun. At a laryngologist to the payroll. Just what I needed.

B (32:43)

What did the death of Harry Tinowitz mean to you? And where did that fit in this journey?

C (32:55)

Harry made me want to be a better guy. Frankly, it was not something that was comfortable for me at first. When we were Partnered together in 01, we fought famously on the air and off the air. But what very few people knew or wanted to even know was that we often had a lot of really close times, too. I mean, we were. We were hangout buddies. We went and saw, you know, plays before, you know, we even worked together. We saw a play, a stage adaptation to A Clockwork Orange, and we were in the back row. What's that?

B (33:35)

It was in a musical.

C (33:39)

The guy in the back was me.

B (33:41)

Alex and my three droogs.

C (33:44)

And the guy who played Alex was a brother. And he got naked on stage. And I said to Harry, thank God we did not bring our wives because. And we're way in the back, man. And he was fully aroused in Alexander Delarge fashion. And, yeah, so Harry and I had a lot of laughs together. You know, I. It's funny that I. I would hear people when they commented on that Mac Yuriko and Harry show, 80% of them would say, I can't stand that Harry. All he does is cheer, kiss ass, always bubbly. His voice annoys. The other 20% say he's the reason he's. They're listening. So I looked at it as a win. And he smoothed out some of my rough edges. He made me realize that working with clients is part of the job. Don't be a dick. When clients want to talk during breaks, talk to the PD and ask him to wait until after the show, if possible, but be more gentle. Remember names. He and Dan Bernstein's always been very good at that with clients too. And Harry, Harry taught me some sales techniques to remember names. When we traveled with that show, you know, everybody thought Yurko and I were the a hole buddies. Harry was this the show mule. I mean, even after 9, 11, he carried weed. So when we checked into our hotel rooms, whether it's Boston fee doesn't matter. Hey, Harry meets you in your room in 10 minutes after we make it 15. His death was. Was a real rough one. And it was a. An incredible moment when Spike Manton, his best friend, eulogized him. And Spike doesn't. He's one of those guys who gets upset with himself. I'm told if, if he gets emotional during his speech. So he paused and he took a long, long pause. And. And I've never heard silence in a room of about 200 people as I did that day. And I was sitting between Greg Salk and Mitch Rosen, and I held both of their hands during that silence, all of us with our eyes closed, and you could feel the unity of the room. It was something. It was quite a day, and it was great to reconnect with a lot of people who I enjoyed working with most of them. And, you know, Harry, just like my brother, made his own bed. Harry lived hard and he cleaned up 10 or 12 years before his illnesses, but the damage already had been done, and his heart certainly did not, did not help with his liver failing.

A (36:33)

Mac when you look back at life and you look at that difficult moments, I can say this for myself, that most of the difficult times I've had in life, I've brought upon myself, you know, with my own decisions or behavior and learning to overcome that and to eventually get on a journey to be the man and the person that I, that I want to be and that I need to be. When you look back at your own life and look at things that you've done that have brought hard times on yourself, how do you, how did you navigate those times and how do you look back at it and say, yeah, this is what I did to be successful, to overcome those deficiencies or shortcomings I may have had in life.

C (37:17)

It's really tough to accept your helplessness when you think something isn't hurtful to you, whether it's gambling, which was never really a huge issue for me because I was fortunate enough to keep that in check and, and stick to a budget. Pain meds were a terrible thing in my life. Coke was, was an awful thing in my life. An easier thing to give up because the damage from a cocaine binge is so intense. You know, pain med addiction is a real slow descent because you're not suspected other than being emotionally disconnected. It doesn't smell, it doesn't cost a lot of money if you have a prescription. And I had a doctor who, even after I was through treatment one time I twisted his arm and got him to write me 180amonth. Again, six months down the line. That was, that was such a, you know, and people say, well, what's your basement? What's your, what's your bottom? Isolation is a horrible bottom for someone who loves being around people. I would get home from work and, and sit in the basement and, and watch Goodfellas over and over and just. I just wanted to be alone. I wasn't causing any problems necessarily, but I was emotionally very flat. And that went on for about six years. And when I got off my antidepressants, foolishly, without discussing it with my doctor in 2012, that led to a precipitous low. I mean, I'm playing golf on a sunny afternoon with high school buddies on a great course for free. I birdie the first hole, and I remember thinking to myself as I walked back to the cart, thank God there's only 17 more of these things so I can get home and go be alone. Now, what is wrong with this picture? That's not a guy who's, you know, wanting to be. But I like being around people. People. People make me feel good. I'm more energized when I'm in a room full of people. And I think that's one of the things that, you know to. Not to get off too far off topic, but why podcasting didn't necessarily work for me as. As much as there's the intimacy of live and local is not there. And. And when there's people, you can feel people listening. You know, on a Friday afternoon and the weather sucks and the Kennedys, the parking lot and, you know, it was tough for me to get it up in a podcast format because it's just not the same level of intens. The people aren't right there right now.

B (40:21)

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C (44:23)

Well, it takes some growing up, I suppose, being a public school kid, growing up with privileges that are. Are different than others. I was privileged in a, you know, town of 28,000 white people. I never knew what it was like to be pulled over for having white, for having, you know, black skin. That's a privilege that I never knew I was enjoying. I never went hungry. My dad worked at Lever Brothers company. We had free soap. I mean, that was a perk. Second balcony tickets twice a year to see the Hawks. Yeah, I suppose I was resentful of anybody who came from money, sure. I'm not going to deny that. I'm resentful of people who tested well and got into good stuff schools. Because testing well doesn't mean shit. And Ron Gleason proved it. He went to Northwestern. You know, just.

B (45:28)

I thought you were going to take a jigs Harvard shot there. But.

C (45:32)

The spread ball around. I think I mentioned jigs an hour ago. It doesn't mean because somebody you know is from privilege, they didn't work their asses off. And what I learned about you a few years after the Randy Brown episode, which I have no memory of, but I believe every. Believe every syllable of it, sounds so 95 McNeil. What I learned was that you rode the buses doing minor league baseball and minor league basketball and you had paid your dues.

B (46:04)

But you know what? Here's the thing, Max. The reason I could do that is I had somebody subsidizing my rent and my food. The reason that other people who were next to me on those buses had to get out of the business was because they didn't have that. There was people who are really talented broadcasters or salespeople, whatever they were, who couldn't afford it.

C (46:25)

Because I don't buy that. I have a tough time with that. You know what? I donated blood, donated plasma when I was in college to have some extra scratch. Now, I always had weed, so maybe I spent my money poorly, but you do what you have to do, you know? I mean, I always think of the Rock in the USA by Mellencamp. Some are black and some are white Ain't too proud to sleep on the floor tonight if you really want this goddamn job, you will ride those buses. You will go hungry. You will live in a ymca.

B (47:05)

I did it.

C (47:07)

Was never homeless, was never starving. Did without a few times. But, you know, if you really want those things, they are attainable. It's how bad you want them. And then we get into how bad People get abused in their business choices when they want to be stars and the MeToo movement and Harvey Weinstein, a lot of other things we could talk about. But yeah, I mean, and Danny Parkins is a guy who, you know, who comes across as. Never had a guy, a tough day in his life when you first listened to him.

B (47:39)

No.

C (47:40)

Now this is going back a few years.

B (47:42)

He's had those experiences.

C (47:44)

Yes. The tragedies that guy has endured in recent years and some of the things that he endured as a child. I mean, scoliosis and having several spine surgeries before you're 10 makes you a tough son of a bitch. Especially when you grow up loving sports. I mean, I was told I'm going to be too slow to play fullback for the Bears when I was 17. When he was 10, he was told he'll never be the point guard at New Trier. That's different. That's a different kind of doing without. So the guy used words to make his way in sports and he, he worked his ass off. So, you know, I was young and dumb and, you know the rest of the cliche in 1995.

B (48:30)

So, you know, I'm not asking for any apology. Don't get me wrong. Yeah, good.

A (48:36)

I mean, we can, we can. Now, Dan and I can both say that McNeil hung up on us. I don't know if you, I'm sure you don't remember, but 2009, 2010, the Blackhawks win the Stanley cup. And for whatever reason, of all the people the station, I'm, I'm tagged as the guy to go to the Blackhawks parade and be the, the on, on site reporter. Why me? I'm happy to get out of the studio and do it. So. Yep, I'll go, Mitch, Happy to do it. So I'm in the Blackhawk celebration parade. They got the double decker red buses. They got the whole thing. We meet at the United Center. That's where it starts. And it's like, all right, Mac and Spiegel want you to call in and do a hit from, you know, from the starting point, I'm like, yeah, absolutely. So I call in and with my background of it now, you know, I've been to more Blackhawks game as a kid than any other, any other Chicago team. But I was with the Borz and Bernstein show and we didn't talk about hockey. So why I was there and why I was on your show have no idea why. But I lead in with the whole idea of the red double decker buses. They have name placards of all the current players, like, where they're going to sit. And then they have name placards for like, great Blackhawk players that are no longer with us. So I start my hit with you guys with saying that the big news story of the day is the fact that they've. They've dug up dead Blackhawks players and they're going to throw them on these red buses. My guy, and I'm like, here's the. And I'm reading these names. Silence from these guys. And I bet Mac is just because like, he's, he's in his glory, celebrating the Blackhawks, right. A Stanley cup championship. And I'm making jokes about digging up dead Blackhawks and throwing their bones in the bus for the parade. Click, phone call over. Like, oh, shit. That probably wasn't the best thing to do.

C (50:26)

We, you know what? It wasn't me. If it were, I'd remember. It's recent enough, I'd remember it. We were on remote that day. We were broadcasting from Millennium park and we didn't have access to monitors. The city was supposed to give us monitors so we could watch the progression of the parade. Yeah. So we could comment somewhat intelligently on it. And I was furious. I mean, you. You know what it's like when I don't have the Sony studio headphones. It's like, come on, man, don't give me this crap. We don't. We can't see. I, I remember cell phone issues that day. I remember you put Mayor Daly on with us and the cell dropped out. 30 seconds into that. It was one disaster after another. And it was 102 degrees and I had an incredible case of swamp ass going. And the wife was being a real bitch that morning too. On our commute downtown, we were co. Commuting in that era. Boy, that's a. That's taken one for the team. Go ahead and take the job in the city. I get to work at around 7:30 every day. I'll drop you off. Boy, that was beautiful. Good move.

A (51:37)

You know, it's funny, I remember now the Mayor Daley phone call dropping off. But I, yeah, I was your designated point guy to like share along the route, like where we were, what we were doing. And it started off with that and it was the only phone call that we had. Oh my God. But I remember reporting back to Boris and Bernstein, which is like such pride and you know, you know, gave it to the old hockey guy about digging up dead bodies and put them on the bus for the parade.

C (52:02)

So, yeah, it would make sense that that would be my reaction to this.

A (52:07)

It was, it was great. It was, it was great. But it obviously had, had no, no, no bearing on our, on our friendship that that grew out of the 2007 Super Bowl. That's where it started.

C (52:17)

Look, if you guys can, you know, can't fight with each other and mess with each other, then they really shouldn't do talk radio.

A (52:26)

You can see, you know, Dan is an example.

C (52:29)

Yes. You guys can, can not like each other on a day on the air and literally get mad at each other. Other and you know, the next day you brush it off. It's not always the easiest thing in the world to do, but you recognize that conflict makes it good. And when sports talk is at its best, to me, it's soap opera for guys. And without that conflict, without getting under each other's skin, not in a contrived manner, but when it's organic and it's real and that's what makes it good and, you know, you don't take your ball and go home. There are some guys who don't want anything to do with being challenged on the air. Transitions discontinued from time to time over the years. His guys didn't want to talk to the guys in the next show, or the guys coming in on the next show didn't want to talk to guy in the previous show. And it's really ridiculous. Like, you can't do that for 10 minutes. Get the fuck out, man. Go do something else.

A (53:32)

And you know, Danny and I had, we actually, Bernstein and I had a relationship fighting on the air. And we would, we would go after each other and get after it pretty, pretty legitimately. And it wasn't even the next day. Like, we would walk into the hallway at the next commercial break and be like, yeah, that was, that was, that was a great segment. You know. Do you want. I'm going downstairs for coffee.

B (53:50)

You want anything?

A (53:50)

It's like, yeah, no, I'm good. Like, it was just, it wasn't contrived and it wasn't made up, but it was also part of what we did. But it, but it wasn't personal. Even though I hated you.

B (54:00)

It was like coming off the field in a game. It's like, you watch these NFL games where guys are, oh, yeah, they're trying to kill each other. Each other's eye sockets. And then the moment it's over, oh, how's the family? Am I going to see you and play golf and go fish or whatever it is? That, that's just the job they have yeah, for sure.

A (54:17)

For sure. Mac, what's the. What's the latest movie you've seen or TV show or series that you're watching, you're enjoying what's what stuff?

C (54:25)

Have you guys heard of this thing from Steven Bochco called NYPD Blue? It is absolutely outstanding. No, I. I've been actually, I have been binge watching NYPD Blue lately. Honestly.

B (54:38)

It's a great show.

C (54:40)

It was a great show. And you know, it's funny that I no longer have it for Kim Delaney. I. I was a big Kim Delaney guy in season three.

B (54:51)

She, like, in real life, she'd fit you just right. You talk about somebody who's had a share of. Of messes and indiscretions.

C (55:02)

Yeah.

B (55:03)

Issues. Yeah, yeah.

C (55:05)

Birds of a feather, probably. Yeah. But no, I haven't been. You know, I. I don't. I don't like this. I really hate what's happened in the movie industry. You know, the movie industry has lost so much juice these last 10 years. Streaming is where it's at. There's a million great shows. I'm not necessarily a fan of them. The last movie that really, you know, got me going was the menu. I absolutely loved the menu. Oh, man. Rafe finds, I thought, turned in one of the most chilling performances since Lecter. And with Silence of the Lambs, I. His role as the chef was outstanding. What a great thrill ride. And I've always loved John Legazamo. And you know what? As a. As a human s', more, he gets it done. I thought he was terrific in that final scene. But here, let me give you guys a couple of numbers here. You tell me whether these things happen. With six games to go, Caleb Williams needs to average 212 yards passing per game to break Eric Kramer's single season record. He needs to throw 14 touchdown passes to get to 30 to break Eric Kramer's single season record. Both of them were set in Dan Bernstein's first year lettering for the score in 1995. Does he get either of them? Both of them or none of them? What's it going to be? What do you think? Does he get either of those.

A (56:40)

Not touchdowns. Yards? I would lean towards yards, yes. Not touchdowns.

B (56:45)

But it also. Is he going to stay healthy? And that's. That's part of it. I'm going to. If I were betting, I would bet no. I think that the. It is that the odds would be against that of him. He's gotten this far without being hurt. And to think of the number of things that have to go right the offense has been pretty healthy, so I would say the smarter bet would be.

A (57:07)

No.

C (57:08)

Yeah, I don't. I don't. I don't have confidence in him to get either of them as well. It's just. It's. It. They're running the ball well, even though they couldn't move it Sunday when they needed to salt away the win against Pittsburgh in their final possession.

A (57:23)

But, well, they had it. And then Manangai fell. He slipped and fell.

B (57:28)

I mean, he had.

A (57:29)

He's probably scoring a touchdown there if he even doesn't fall. But then those final two drives, Caleb couldn't complete a pass to get a first down, so that. That didn't help either.

C (57:38)

Now go Bears. Bears. And I just. I wonder. I don't know what the odds are. I didn't look if. If it's no longer feasible to bet on Coach of the Year because, man, I heard a few weeks ago Ben Johnson was 12 to 1. That has to have shriveled by now because really, I don't. Who else is in the conversation? Whoever's coaching. The Patriots and Shakespeare.

A (58:05)

Yeah, the Patriots coach. I'll fill you in. Is Mike Vrabel. And then the brother. Yeah, my older brother. And then the starting quarterback is Drake May.

C (58:16)

Drake May, that's right. They drafted Drake May, one of three quarterbacks outperforming Kaylee.

B (58:23)

Drake May getting some MVP consideration.

A (58:25)

Yeah, he's in the race for MVP with Matthew Stafford. It's like one.

C (58:28)

That's right. They hired Rabel, who I always thought was a little bit of a thicker Matabatical. I guess he'd be your younger brother, though. I had.

A (58:36)

He would be. I'll be 53 in January. He's got to be younger than me, so.

C (58:40)

Right. Yeah. I'm 53 years old and I'll whip your ass.

A (58:44)

Oh, I would, too.

B (58:45)

In Washington. Danny, this was a pleasure. And for reasons maybe unexpected, I will put a bow on it with this. That on this day where we're all sort of sitting around and counting blessings and I think I mentioned this before, it would be completely understandable if you were unhappy, bitter or, you know, not taking the time on a day where the word giving is part of it, to see and hear how dedicated you are at this point in your life and sitting where you're sitting, to be dedicated to giving and to being as thankful as you are for what you still have is. It's notable. And I'm kind of getting emotional talking about it. I never. If somebody had told me 25 years ago that I'D be here that you would be a laudable, if not noble, example of turning negatives into a positive and doing something at the moment that you described that is as selfless an effort as anybody can do while you are continuing to raise Patrick and Van and everything else you're doing in your life. It's really impressive. And for whatever it means to you, I think on a day like this, you're a wonderful example.

C (60:24)

Thanks, man. I know you don't speak Dances With Wolves, but there's a scene late in the film after Dance of the Wolves is parting company with the Chief Ten Bears, with whom, I'm sorry, Kicking Bird. Graham Green. The late Graham Green, who says to Kevin Costner's character, we come far, you and me. And I think that's applicable with the two of us because we haven't always aligned very well. But that changed seven or eight years ago, and I'm glad it did. And thank you for the kind words. It's the right thing to do. It's the thing I want to do. And I'm a pretty lucky guy. I've been blessed to have great people around me my entire life, beginning as a kid in a very, you know, simple town. There were always people in the neighborhood who gave me shelter when I didn't have it at home and gave me comfort and friends and teachers, coaches, teammates, instructors at Ball State, teammates at the Loop, mentors like Swirsky and Coppock, program directors like Mitch Rosen and Greg Salk and Vice President Jimmy DeCastro and others, and all the talented producers and hosts I've had the privilege to work with. Yeah, we've. We've knocked each other in the head a few times, but, man, nothing but affection for those who sail with me. Bob Dylan. And that's how I feel about it.

B (61:57)

Danny, I love you, man. And I appreciate you doing this. Thank you very much. And to. To the extent that your Thanksgiving can be as. As happy and hopeful as possible, here's to it.

C (62:13)

Thanks, man. You guys have a great weekend.

A (62:15)

All right, Mac. See you, pal. Love you, buddy. Talk to you soon.

C (62:17)

Take care. Love you back. Love your suit.

B (62:20)

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